Guest guest Posted July 10, 2006 Report Share Posted July 10, 2006 That study was done on 14 untrained Greek women and god knows what they were eating during the study. Who knows if the cardio intensity had any impact at all. Maybe the tortoises were eating better than the hares. And also note that none of them were doing interval training, so the study doesn't comment on HIIT at all. I definitely wouldn't draw any conclusions from something so rinky-dink. All fitness information conflicts. ALL of it. You can find a study to support absolutely anything. The bottom line is you have to do what works for you - not what your friends do, or what the magazine says, or what you saw on Oprah. Do what actually delivers results real, measurable results for you personally. HIIT delivers dramatic results in short periods of time. Thumbing through magazines on a stationary bike generally doesn't deliver much of anything. People always ask me which cardio is best and I say all of it - HIIT intervals, moderate jogs, stair climbing, dog walking, kickboxing, step class, swing dancing, elliptical training - just pick something and go. Completely change it and go again. Completely change it and go some more. The more variety there is in your routine, the more you change machines, vary the pace, try new activities, work recreational cardio into your day, the better your results will be. Please don't think you're going to turn into a pumpkin if you breathe hard or sweat. Who's in better shape, mall walkers or sprinters? > Hi gang, > > I get the Real Age tips in my email and this one has me scratching my > head since I was totally converted to the HIIT philosophy: > ======================================================= > Slow and Steady > Do you huff and puff your way through workouts -- and hate every gasp? > > Then slow it down, especially if weight loss is one of your goals. New > research shows that lower-intensity exercise may help you shed more > pounds than a faster-paced activity -- as long as you burn enough > calories from it. So get out of the high-speed lane. Walk, don't run. > Jog, don't sprint. Skip the spinning class and pedal an exercise bike > at a comfortable speed, all the while chanting: Do less, lose more. > > The study compared two groups of women who did slower- or faster-paced > sessions on the treadmill 4 days a week. During the sessions, each > group exercised at their respective paces until the same number of > calories was burned. After 3 months -- with absolutely no dieting -- > the slower-goers had lost an average of more than 7 pounds each, while > the quicker group had dropped only 4. Although the study was small, > the numbers are compelling. > > Not a treadmill type? No problem. Do whatever you like; just do > something. The results are waiting! > ======================================================== > The bit above comes from a study published in the International > Journal of Sports Medicine and you can read the abstract here: > > http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?db=pubmed & cmd=Retrieve & dopt=Abstra\ ct & list_uids=16541371 & query_hl=5 & itool=pubmed_docsum > > So my question is... well... huh? I'm totally bamboozled by the > results of this latest study as it seems to contradict the whole HIIT > and afterburn and revved up metabolism from doing HIGH intenisty > workouts. From that study, apples to apples, it seems that one gets > more bang for one's exercise buck from LOW intensity. > > Considering how unhappy my knees have been lately, this may just the > news I need to hear to switch back from running to walking, but I'm > leery. I don't understand how it could be true. Anyone want to take > a swing at this? Pro or con... I'm trying to keep an open mind either way! > > Scout Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 10, 2006 Report Share Posted July 10, 2006 Godo point, Skwigg. I thought about the nutrition aspect as well since that wasn't monitored in any way. I was just reading over at Krista's site and she notes that the slower people lost more *weight*, but the faster ones maintained more LBM, which is a HUGE point. Still, that puzzles me. Why would a lower intensity treadmill produce more weight loss, including LBM loss, than a higher intensity workout? It just makes no sense to me. It makes it sound as if a lower intensity workout is more demanding, causing both fat and LBM loss, and again, that makes no sense! For me it's not a matter of not wanting to break a sweat - I'd much rather go fast and hard and get my cardio over and done with - but my knees are becoming increasingly unhappy of late and I may end up being the equivalent of a mall walker soon, whether I will it or no! Scout > > Hi gang, > > > > I get the Real Age tips in my email and this one has me scratching my > > head since I was totally converted to the HIIT philosophy: > > ======================================================= > > Slow and Steady > > Do you huff and puff your way through workouts -- and hate every gasp? > > > > Then slow it down, especially if weight loss is one of your goals. New > > research shows that lower-intensity exercise may help you shed more > > pounds than a faster-paced activity -- as long as you burn enough > > calories from it. So get out of the high-speed lane. Walk, don't run. > > Jog, don't sprint. Skip the spinning class and pedal an exercise bike > > at a comfortable speed, all the while chanting: Do less, lose more. > > > > The study compared two groups of women who did slower- or faster-paced > > sessions on the treadmill 4 days a week. During the sessions, each > > group exercised at their respective paces until the same number of > > calories was burned. After 3 months -- with absolutely no dieting -- > > the slower-goers had lost an average of more than 7 pounds each, while > > the quicker group had dropped only 4. Although the study was small, > > the numbers are compelling. > > > > Not a treadmill type? No problem. Do whatever you like; just do > > something. The results are waiting! > > ======================================================== > > The bit above comes from a study published in the International > > Journal of Sports Medicine and you can read the abstract here: > > > > http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?db=pubmed & cmd=Retrieve & dopt=Abstra\ ct & list_uids=16541371 & query_hl=5 & itool=pubmed_docsum > > > > So my question is... well... huh? I'm totally bamboozled by the > > results of this latest study as it seems to contradict the whole HIIT > > and afterburn and revved up metabolism from doing HIGH intenisty > > workouts. From that study, apples to apples, it seems that one gets > > more bang for one's exercise buck from LOW intensity. > > > > Considering how unhappy my knees have been lately, this may just the > > news I need to hear to switch back from running to walking, but I'm > > leery. I don't understand how it could be true. Anyone want to take > > a swing at this? Pro or con... I'm trying to keep an open mind either way! > > > > Scout > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 10, 2006 Report Share Posted July 10, 2006 " No dietary intervention was applied. " In other words, they didn't keep track of food intake at all. My two guesses would be: 1. The women who were working up a sweat said to themselves " Alright, I worked extra hard--I'm going for that second bowl of ice cream! " or: 2. Since this group had no previous training, the high intensity exercisers were so exhausted from the exercise that they spent the rest of the day vegging out on the couch. Naomi ******* > > > ======================================================== > The bit above comes from a study published in the International > Journal of Sports Medicine and you can read the abstract here: > > http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?db=pubmed & cmd=Retrieve & dopt=Abstra\ ct & list_uids=16541371 & query_hl=5 & itool=pubmed_docsum > <http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?db=pubmed & cmd=Retrieve & dopt=Abstr\ act & list_uids=16541371 & query_hl=5 & itool=pubmed_docsum> > > So my question is... well... huh? I'm totally bamboozled by the > results of this latest study as it seems to contradict the whole HIIT > and afterburn and revved up metabolism from doing HIGH intenisty > workouts. From that study, apples to apples, it seems that one gets > more bang for one's exercise buck from LOW intensity. > > Considering how unhappy my knees have been lately, this may just the > news I need to hear to switch back from running to walking, but I'm > leery. I don't understand how it could be true. Anyone want to take > a swing at this? Pro or con... I'm trying to keep an open mind either way! > > Scout > > <http://us.lrd./_ylc=X3oDMTJmODlnMWtvBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzYyOTM4Mj\ IEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNjAwNjU1NDg4BHNlYwNmdHIEc2xrA3N0bmdzBHN0aW1lAzExNTI1MTU2NzY-;_ylg=\ 1/SIG=11ujj0q8a/**http%3a///group//join> > > Visit Your Group > <http://us.lrd./_ylc=X3oDMTJkODQwYXRnBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzYyOTM4Mj\ IEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNjAwNjU1NDg4BHNlYwNmdHIEc2xrA2hwZgRzdGltZQMxMTUyNTE1Njc2;_ylg=1/SI\ G=11pjd5s7e/**http%3a///group/> > | Terms of Use <> | > Unsubscribe > <mailto:-unsubscribe ?subject=Unsubscribe> > > New Message Search > > Find the message you want faster. Visit your group to try out the > improved message search. > > Share feedback on the new changes to Groups > <http://us.lrd./_ylc=X3oDMTJtb2JuOXQ5BF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BF9wAzIEZ3JwSWQDNj\ I5MzgyMgRncnBzcElkAzE2MDA2NTU0ODgEc2VjA25jbW9kBHNsawNmZGJjawRzdGltZQMxMTUyNTE1Nj\ c2;_ylg=1/SIG=11im36rmb/**http%3a//surveylink./wix/p1412899.aspx> > > Recent Activity > > * > 13 > New Members > <http://us.lrd./_ylc=X3oDMTJmcGxta3U2BF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzYyOTM4Mj\ IEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNjAwNjU1NDg4BHNlYwN2dGwEc2xrA3ZtYnJzBHN0aW1lAzExNTI1MTU2NzY-;_ylg=\ 1/SIG=1212ee9kk/**http%3a///group//members\ > > > Visit Your Group > <http://us.lrd./_ylc=X3oDMTJlN3RzZWNxBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzYyOTM4Mj\ IEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNjAwNjU1NDg4BHNlYwN2dGwEc2xrA3ZnaHAEc3RpbWUDMTE1MjUxNTY3Ng--;_ylg=\ 1/SIG=11pjd5s7e/**http%3a///group/> > > . > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 10, 2006 Report Share Posted July 10, 2006 The losing more weight vs. maintaining more lean body mass might have something to do with workout duration or volume of training. Think about people who do an hour or more of moderate cardio every day vs. people who do 20 minutes of intense sprints a couple of times a week. Who's muscle mass would be more in jeopardy? Or like marathoners vs. sprinters. Whatever the physiological cause, you definitely see it when you compare those two groups. Elite marathoners are sort of twiggy, beef jerky looking types with very little muscle mass. Elite sprinters look like bodybuilders. Running and walking aside, can you do anything non-impact and easier on the knees? Maybe a stationary bike, elliptical, or swimming? You definitely have to protect your knees. I never run unless something is chasing me. The impact is hell on my hips and knees and spine. Sometimes if I'm feeling frisky I'll do a ridiculously slow jog on a treadmill with a cushioned deck. Running all-out sprints on asphalt and clay nearly killed me though. It was an awesome workout, but I was headed for a wheelchair or crutches, or perhaps one of those Rascal scooters... > Godo point, Skwigg. I thought about the nutrition aspect as well > since that wasn't monitored in any way. > > I was just reading over at Krista's site and she notes that the slower > people lost more *weight*, but the faster ones maintained more LBM, > which is a HUGE point. Still, that puzzles me. Why would a lower > intensity treadmill produce more weight loss, including LBM loss, than > a higher intensity workout? It just makes no sense to me. It makes > it sound as if a lower intensity workout is more demanding, causing > both fat and LBM loss, and again, that makes no sense! > > For me it's not a matter of not wanting to break a sweat - I'd much > rather go fast and hard and get my cardio over and done with - but my > knees are becoming increasingly unhappy of late and I may end up being > the equivalent of a mall walker soon, whether I will it or no! > Scout > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 10, 2006 Report Share Posted July 10, 2006 So what do you do for your HIIT ? Do you use the bike or elliptical? Skwigg wrote: The losing more weight vs. maintaining more lean body mass might have something to do with workout duration or volume of training. Think about people who do an hour or more of moderate cardio every day vs. people who do 20 minutes of intense sprints a couple of times a week. Who's muscle mass would be more in jeopardy? Or like marathoners vs. sprinters. Whatever the physiological cause, you definitely see it when you compare those two groups. Elite marathoners are sort of twiggy, beef jerky looking types with very little muscle mass. Elite sprinters look like bodybuilders. Running and walking aside, can you do anything non-impact and easier on the knees? Maybe a stationary bike, elliptical, or swimming? You definitely have to protect your knees. I never run unless something is chasing me. The impact is hell on my hips and knees and spine. Sometimes if I'm feeling frisky I'll do a ridiculously slow jog on a treadmill with a cushioned deck. Running all-out sprints on asphalt and clay nearly killed me though. It was an awesome workout, but I was headed for a wheelchair or crutches, or perhaps one of those Rascal scooters... > Godo point, Skwigg. I thought about the nutrition aspect as well > since that wasn't monitored in any way. > > I was just reading over at Krista's site and she notes that the slower > people lost more *weight*, but the faster ones maintained more LBM, > which is a HUGE point. Still, that puzzles me. Why would a lower > intensity treadmill produce more weight loss, including LBM loss, than > a higher intensity workout? It just makes no sense to me. It makes > it sound as if a lower intensity workout is more demanding, causing > both fat and LBM loss, and again, that makes no sense! > > For me it's not a matter of not wanting to break a sweat - I'd much > rather go fast and hard and get my cardio over and done with - but my > knees are becoming increasingly unhappy of late and I may end up being > the equivalent of a mall walker soon, whether I will it or no! > Scout > --------------------------------- Talk is cheap. Use Messenger to make PC-to-Phone calls. Great rates starting at 1¢/min. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 10, 2006 Report Share Posted July 10, 2006 I know what you mean between the difference between a marathoner and sprinter, but in this study they were trying to make it a more apples to apples comaprison since both groups exercised only to the extent of burning the 370 calories. (I think it was 370). In that case the marathoner/sprinter comparison doesn't apply or account for the difference in LBM. I know I am spending waaaay to much time thinking about this, , but here's another possibility I came up with: what if the study IS right? What if the lower intensity people DID lose more scale weight, and LBM weight, but didn't actually lose *muscle*? How? By losing 4 pounds of fat (like the higher intensity people) but also losing 3 pounds of water. Lean Body Mass is anything BUT fat, right? So when the study says they lost LBM, it doesn't necessarily mean the lower people lost muscle - it could have been water loss which lowers their LBM. and possibly the higher intensity people didn't lose that water because there muscles were retaining it - I always retain water after a tough workout. Does this make sense to anyone else? See, I had to come up with another explanation to satisfy myself because I know a bit about race horses and we would 'walk for muscle, run for wind'. Lots and lots of walking and trotting (slow to moderate cardio) to put on muscle, and sprints (high intensity) to build wind and speed. I've never seen a racehorse LOSE condition from walking. Therefore it makes no sense that a human is going to lose muscle from walking. That LBM loss has to be water... doesn't it? Can you tell this is driving me mad? I use an elliptical as well, but in the summer I want to be outside. I run on a dirt road, up and down hills. I don't have access to a pool and don't belong to a gym so that's about all my cardio optons. Everything else (jumping rope for example) is even harder on my knees. Like you, I couldn't possibly run on asphalt, even with my super-duper Saucony shoes. Maybe I'll just switch out a run or two for the elliptical again. But it's like... hmm, gorgeous summer morning and sunrise over the fields with deer leaping out from the brush as I run by... or in my basement on the ellipitical staring at the wall like some death row inmate from a 1950s crime drama... big, haunted, hollow eyes and no sound but the scritch of the magnetic wheel hitting the one corner of the plastic casing. (No, I don't have an IPOD and I can't put on my stereo and wake up everyone else at 6 AM!) It's hard to choose the elliptical in summer. Scout > > Godo point, Skwigg. I thought about the nutrition aspect as well > > since that wasn't monitored in any way. > > > > I was just reading over at Krista's site and she notes that the slower > > people lost more *weight*, but the faster ones maintained more LBM, > > which is a HUGE point. Still, that puzzles me. Why would a lower > > intensity treadmill produce more weight loss, including LBM loss, than > > a higher intensity workout? It just makes no sense to me. It makes > > it sound as if a lower intensity workout is more demanding, causing > > both fat and LBM loss, and again, that makes no sense! > > > > For me it's not a matter of not wanting to break a sweat - I'd much > > rather go fast and hard and get my cardio over and done with - but my > > knees are becoming increasingly unhappy of late and I may end up being > > the equivalent of a mall walker soon, whether I will it or no! > > Scout > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 10, 2006 Report Share Posted July 10, 2006 You are going to lose weight (whatever it may be) either way ... but HIIT challenges your body more .. your body adapts and if you are doing easy cardio or " slow " cardio then eventually your body won't do anything. HIIT will always be difficult because your 9's and 10's and the rest of your levels continue to stay difficult as your body changes and strengthens. from my experience...I used to run cross country and that got me in good shape (practice alone was running 4- 5 miles 6 days a week) ... and there is no doubt that will help someone lose weight but then I got used to it and there were no more changes. Later I joined track, as a sprinter... so very often I did sprints, and suicides and all that ... and I began seeing my changes in my body (lost more inches, and got more definition) ... Everyone is different but after my own experience, and COUNTLESS people on the BFL program that stick to HIIT ... it obviously works! > > > Godo point, Skwigg. I thought about the nutrition aspect as well > > > since that wasn't monitored in any way. > > > > > > I was just reading over at Krista's site and she notes that the slower > > > people lost more *weight*, but the faster ones maintained more LBM, > > > which is a HUGE point. Still, that puzzles me. Why would a lower > > > intensity treadmill produce more weight loss, including LBM loss, than > > > a higher intensity workout? It just makes no sense to me. It makes > > > it sound as if a lower intensity workout is more demanding, causing > > > both fat and LBM loss, and again, that makes no sense! > > > > > > For me it's not a matter of not wanting to break a sweat - I'd much > > > rather go fast and hard and get my cardio over and done with - but my > > > knees are becoming increasingly unhappy of late and I may end up being > > > the equivalent of a mall walker soon, whether I will it or no! > > > Scout > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 10, 2006 Report Share Posted July 10, 2006 Why not go for the walk on the gorgeous summer morning with the leaping deer, and afterward knock out some intervals on the elliptical in the dungeon? Or vice-versa? I walk outdoors for 30-60 minutes every morning, then I go to the gym and do the " real " cardio. I know your head is spinning from the confusing studies, but I'm telling you, they don't matter one bit. All that matters is how your program affects YOUR body composition. Do your own study on yourself and you won't have to worry about anybody else's studies. You'll know what delivers for you. > I know what you mean between the difference between a marathoner and > sprinter, but in this study they were trying to make it a more apples > to apples comaprison since both groups exercised only to the extent of > burning the 370 calories. (I think it was 370). > > In that case the marathoner/sprinter comparison doesn't apply or > account for the difference in LBM. I know I am spending waaaay to > much time thinking about this, , but here's another possibility I > came up with: what if the study IS right? What if the lower > intensity people DID lose more scale weight, and LBM weight, but > didn't actually lose *muscle*? How? By losing 4 pounds of fat (like > the higher intensity people) but also losing 3 pounds of water. Lean > Body Mass is anything BUT fat, right? So when the study says they > lost LBM, it doesn't necessarily mean the lower people lost muscle - > it could have been water loss which lowers their LBM. and possibly > the higher intensity people didn't lose that water because there > muscles were retaining it - I always retain water after a tough > workout. Does this make sense to anyone else? > > See, I had to come up with another explanation to satisfy myself > because I know a bit about race horses and we would 'walk for muscle, > run for wind'. Lots and lots of walking and trotting (slow to > moderate cardio) to put on muscle, and sprints (high intensity) to > build wind and speed. I've never seen a racehorse LOSE condition from > walking. Therefore it makes no sense that a human is going to lose > muscle from walking. That LBM loss has to be water... doesn't it? > Can you tell this is driving me mad? > > I use an elliptical as well, but in the summer I want to be outside. > I run on a dirt road, up and down hills. I don't have access to a > pool and don't belong to a gym so that's about all my cardio optons. > Everything else (jumping rope for example) is even harder on my knees. > Like you, I couldn't possibly run on asphalt, even with my > super-duper Saucony shoes. Maybe I'll just switch out a run or two > for the elliptical again. But it's like... hmm, gorgeous summer > morning and sunrise over the fields with deer leaping out from the > brush as I run by... or in my basement on the ellipitical staring at > the wall like some death row inmate from a 1950s crime drama... big, > haunted, hollow eyes and no sound but the scritch of the magnetic > wheel hitting the one corner of the plastic casing. (No, I don't have > an IPOD and I can't put on my stereo and wake up everyone else at 6 AM!) > > It's hard to choose the elliptical in summer. > > Scout Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 10, 2006 Report Share Posted July 10, 2006 I do everything for my HIIT - bike, elliptical, step mill, stairmaster, treadmill, rowing machine, jump rope, heavy bag, plyometrics, calisthenics... usually in some kind of rapid succession. > So what do you do for your HIIT ? Do you use the bike or elliptical? > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 11, 2006 Report Share Posted July 11, 2006 That's part of being a dog owner I actually think it starts your heart up so that you get more benefit from your workouts. I take Beauregard for a brisk walk in the morning then head right out to the gym. I sweat a lot more than on days when he doesn't get his walk, such as rain delays. If someone can explain to a Doberman that if it's raining out the back door, it's probably raining out the front door too, I'd appreciate it. On Mon, 10 Jul 2006 16:03:05 -0500 Skwigg wrote: > Why not go for the walk on the gorgeous summer morning with the > leaping deer, and afterward knock out some intervals on the elliptical > in the dungeon? Or vice-versa? I walk outdoors for 30-60 minutes every > morning, then I go to the gym and do the " real " cardio. > > I know your head is spinning from the confusing studies, but I'm > telling you, they don't matter one bit. All that matters is how your > program affects YOUR body composition. Do your own study on yourself > and you won't have to worry about anybody else's studies. You'll know > what delivers for you. > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 11, 2006 Report Share Posted July 11, 2006 Has anyone heard of hanging the legs upside down after a jog (of 25 minutes or more) in order to prevent blood-pooling? Besides the pounding of joints, tearing of tissue, there's the veins to worry about... advice? -- > > Godo point, Skwigg. I thought about the nutrition aspect as well > > since that wasn't monitored in any way. > > > > I was just reading over at Krista's site and she notes that the slower > > people lost more *weight*, but the faster ones maintained more LBM, > > which is a HUGE point. Still, that puzzles me. Why would a lower > > intensity treadmill produce more weight loss, including LBM loss, than > > a higher intensity workout? It just makes no sense to me. It makes > > it sound as if a lower intensity workout is more demanding, causing > > both fat and LBM loss, and again, that makes no sense! > > > > For me it's not a matter of not wanting to break a sweat - I'd much > > rather go fast and hard and get my cardio over and done with - but my > > knees are becoming increasingly unhappy of late and I may end up being > > the equivalent of a mall walker soon, whether I will it or no! > > Scout > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 11, 2006 Report Share Posted July 11, 2006 This situation needs an adjustment that can make your whole experience more of a winning approach. I would be high as a kite if I could own an eliptical (NY apartment= no way). If I were you, Id hang the GREATEST most inspiring photos/quotes, use some kind of music headset, and even get a tv in there to catch up on the news. " or in my basement on the ellipitical staring at the wall like some death row inmate from a 1950s crime drama... big, haunted, hollow eyes and no sound but the scritch of the magnetic wheel hitting the one corner of the plastic casing. (No, I don't have an IPOD and I can't put on my stereo and wake up everyone else at 6 AM!) " oooh...was that a deer i saw a-leaping? no, it was great dane who dwells in a tiny apartment... -- > > > Godo point, Skwigg. I thought about the nutrition aspect as well > > > since that wasn't monitored in any way. > > > > > > I was just reading over at Krista's site and she notes that the slower > > > people lost more *weight*, but the faster ones maintained more LBM, > > > which is a HUGE point. Still, that puzzles me. Why would a lower > > > intensity treadmill produce more weight loss, including LBM loss, than > > > a higher intensity workout? It just makes no sense to me. It makes > > > it sound as if a lower intensity workout is more demanding, causing > > > both fat and LBM loss, and again, that makes no sense! > > > > > > For me it's not a matter of not wanting to break a sweat - I'd much > > > rather go fast and hard and get my cardio over and done with - but my > > > knees are becoming increasingly unhappy of late and I may end up being > > > the equivalent of a mall walker soon, whether I will it or no! > > > Scout > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 11, 2006 Report Share Posted July 11, 2006 I was, up until two weeks ago, walking 1-2 hours per day in addition to HIIT and weights. Then three things happened: 1. School let out ; 2. Summer Projects took over all that so-called 'spare time' I was devoting to extra cardio; 3. I became persuaded by Alwyn Cosgrove that too much steady state cardio was harmful to fat loss in the long run so I embraced the concept of 'less is more'. I have been enthusiastically engaging in lab rat behaviour (otherwise known as the 'I AM my own science experiment') since last November. My results have been mixed, sporadic, and often puzzling, but overall the fat loss and muscle gain trend has continued so I'm not complaining. But I'll be honest... I STILL don't know what *best* delivers for me. Sometimes it appears to be THIS, and sometimes it appears to be THAT. I've just about decided it's dictated by the phases of the moon and/or Capricorn rising in Venus or Aldebran transiting Arcturus (don't hate me astrology lovers), or something to that effect. I had a brilliant insight into that study tonight. It's like the French Women Don't Get Fat theory except in this case it's the Greek Women Lose Faster By Going Slower. I bet if they stay entirely still the weight just falls off. Scout Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 11, 2006 Report Share Posted July 11, 2006 Yes, you're right. But I am so easily distracted and fascinated by these things. I still want to know WHY they got those results from that study. Especially about the loss of LBM. It makes no sense to me that those women would lose muscle. Water, yes, but not muscle. I'll stick with my HIIT, but my curiousity remains unsatisfied. Scout > > > > Godo point, Skwigg. I thought about the nutrition aspect as > well > > > > since that wasn't monitored in any way. > > > > > > > > I was just reading over at Krista's site and she notes that > the slower > > > > people lost more *weight*, but the faster ones maintained more > LBM, > > > > which is a HUGE point. Still, that puzzles me. Why would a > lower > > > > intensity treadmill produce more weight loss, including LBM > loss, than > > > > a higher intensity workout? It just makes no sense to me. It > makes > > > > it sound as if a lower intensity workout is more demanding, > causing > > > > both fat and LBM loss, and again, that makes no sense! > > > > > > > > For me it's not a matter of not wanting to break a sweat - I'd > much > > > > rather go fast and hard and get my cardio over and done with - > but my > > > > knees are becoming increasingly unhappy of late and I may end > up being > > > > the equivalent of a mall walker soon, whether I will it or no! > > > > Scout > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 11, 2006 Report Share Posted July 11, 2006 Heh, heh. You've the right attitude, beijobear. It's just that I've spent the whole cold, long winter on the elliptical and I rather made myself sick of it. I'll be back to it once the weather turns my road treacherous again. I know it's there, waiting for me. It's not so bad when I have the music blaring, but that only happens in winter when the whole family is on a schedule and is awake at a decent hour. During summer vacation I just can't be that cruel. Besides, it's the whole thing about being a runner again. I was sidelined with undiagnosed hypothyroidism for 8 years and even walking was painful much of the time. The joy of being able to run again this year has been very uplifting. Except for the fact that my knees are really protesting the activity of late. That's not so much fun. What's a Great Dane doing in a tiny apartment? Scout > > > > Godo point, Skwigg. I thought about the nutrition aspect as > well > > > > since that wasn't monitored in any way. > > > > > > > > I was just reading over at Krista's site and she notes that > the slower > > > > people lost more *weight*, but the faster ones maintained more > LBM, > > > > which is a HUGE point. Still, that puzzles me. Why would a > lower > > > > intensity treadmill produce more weight loss, including LBM > loss, than > > > > a higher intensity workout? It just makes no sense to me. It > makes > > > > it sound as if a lower intensity workout is more demanding, > causing > > > > both fat and LBM loss, and again, that makes no sense! > > > > > > > > For me it's not a matter of not wanting to break a sweat - I'd > much > > > > rather go fast and hard and get my cardio over and done with - > but my > > > > knees are becoming increasingly unhappy of late and I may end > up being > > > > the equivalent of a mall walker soon, whether I will it or no! > > > > Scout > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 11, 2006 Report Share Posted July 11, 2006 I've a Bull Mastiff, a Shepard X, and a Sheltie, but they don't need me to walk them. They get enough exercise chasing the wildlife around here. I live on a farm. There's a cop, however, who lives about a mile down the road who runs with his two Dobermans (off the leash!) every now and then. Beautiful dogs. I mean, really, really, really beautiful Dobes. And trained to a fare thee well. If I tried to run with my three... well... it would be like the Keystone Cops I'm sure! Scout > > Why not go for the walk on the gorgeous summer morning with the > > leaping deer, and afterward knock out some intervals on the elliptical > > in the dungeon? Or vice-versa? I walk outdoors for 30-60 minutes every > > morning, then I go to the gym and do the " real " cardio. > > > > I know your head is spinning from the confusing studies, but I'm > > telling you, they don't matter one bit. All that matters is how your > > program affects YOUR body composition. Do your own study on yourself > > and you won't have to worry about anybody else's studies. You'll know > > what delivers for you. > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 11, 2006 Report Share Posted July 11, 2006 This is exactly what a friend of mine has been trying to drum into my head - that it's all about the nutrition, no doubt. I'd be in the ice cream group for sure. Scout > > " No dietary intervention was applied. " > > In other words, they didn't keep track of food intake at all. My two > guesses would be: > > 1. The women who were working up a sweat said to themselves " Alright, I > worked extra hard--I'm going for that second bowl of ice cream! " > > or: > > 2. Since this group had no previous training, the high intensity > exercisers were so exhausted from the exercise that they spent the rest > of the day vegging out on the couch. > > Naomi > ******* > > > > > > ======================================================== > > The bit above comes from a study published in the International > > Journal of Sports Medicine and you can read the abstract here: > > > > http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?db=pubmed & cmd=Retrieve & dopt=Abstra\ ct & list_uids=16541371 & query_hl=5 & itool=pubmed_docsum > > <http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?db=pubmed & cmd=Retrieve & dopt=Abstr\ act & list_uids=16541371 & query_hl=5 & itool=pubmed_docsum> > > > > So my question is... well... huh? I'm totally bamboozled by the > > results of this latest study as it seems to contradict the whole HIIT > > and afterburn and revved up metabolism from doing HIGH intenisty > > workouts. From that study, apples to apples, it seems that one gets > > more bang for one's exercise buck from LOW intensity. > > > > Considering how unhappy my knees have been lately, this may just the > > news I need to hear to switch back from running to walking, but I'm > > leery. I don't understand how it could be true. Anyone want to take > > a swing at this? Pro or con... I'm trying to keep an open mind either way! > > > > Scout > > > > <http://us.lrd./_ylc=X3oDMTJmODlnMWtvBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzYyOTM4Mj\ IEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNjAwNjU1NDg4BHNlYwNmdHIEc2xrA3N0bmdzBHN0aW1lAzExNTI1MTU2NzY-;_ylg=\ 1/SIG=11ujj0q8a/**http%3a///group//join> > > > > Visit Your Group > > <http://us.lrd./_ylc=X3oDMTJkODQwYXRnBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzYyOTM4Mj\ IEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNjAwNjU1NDg4BHNlYwNmdHIEc2xrA2hwZgRzdGltZQMxMTUyNTE1Njc2;_ylg=1/SI\ G=11pjd5s7e/**http%3a///group/> > > | Terms of Use <> | > > Unsubscribe > > <mailto:-unsubscribe ?subject=Unsubscribe> > > > > New Message Search > > > > Find the message you want faster. Visit your group to try out the > > improved message search. > > > > Share feedback on the new changes to Groups > > <http://us.lrd./_ylc=X3oDMTJtb2JuOXQ5BF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BF9wAzIEZ3JwSWQDNj\ I5MzgyMgRncnBzcElkAzE2MDA2NTU0ODgEc2VjA25jbW9kBHNsawNmZGJjawRzdGltZQMxMTUyNTE1Nj\ c2;_ylg=1/SIG=11im36rmb/**http%3a//surveylink./wix/p1412899.aspx> > > > > Recent Activity > > > > * > > 13 > > New Members > > <http://us.lrd./_ylc=X3oDMTJmcGxta3U2BF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzYyOTM4Mj\ IEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNjAwNjU1NDg4BHNlYwN2dGwEc2xrA3ZtYnJzBHN0aW1lAzExNTI1MTU2NzY-;_ylg=\ 1/SIG=1212ee9kk/**http%3a///group//members\ > > > > > Visit Your Group > > <http://us.lrd./_ylc=X3oDMTJlN3RzZWNxBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzYyOTM4Mj\ IEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNjAwNjU1NDg4BHNlYwN2dGwEc2xrA3ZnaHAEc3RpbWUDMTE1MjUxNTY3Ng--;_ylg=\ 1/SIG=11pjd5s7e/**http%3a///group/> > > > > . > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 11, 2006 Report Share Posted July 11, 2006 Exactly. Ive seen dogs the size of bovines residing in the city- what are these owners thinking? -- > > > > > Godo point, Skwigg. I thought about the nutrition aspect as > > well > > > > > since that wasn't monitored in any way. > > > > > > > > > > I was just reading over at Krista's site and she notes that > > the slower > > > > > people lost more *weight*, but the faster ones maintained more > > LBM, > > > > > which is a HUGE point. Still, that puzzles me. Why would a > > lower > > > > > intensity treadmill produce more weight loss, including LBM > > loss, than > > > > > a higher intensity workout? It just makes no sense to me. It > > makes > > > > > it sound as if a lower intensity workout is more demanding, > > causing > > > > > both fat and LBM loss, and again, that makes no sense! > > > > > > > > > > For me it's not a matter of not wanting to break a sweat - I'd > > much > > > > > rather go fast and hard and get my cardio over and done with - > > but my > > > > > knees are becoming increasingly unhappy of late and I may end > > up being > > > > > the equivalent of a mall walker soon, whether I will it or no! > > > > > Scout > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 11, 2006 Report Share Posted July 11, 2006 In defense of Bejio Bear, Great Danes are large but don't require as much exercise as a lot of dogs so they are actually good apartment dogs. I live in NYC also and I take my hat off to anyone who has the discipline to even have a dog in the city. :-) > > > > > > Godo point, Skwigg. I thought about the nutrition aspect > as > > > well > > > > > > since that wasn't monitored in any way. > > > > > > > > > > > > I was just reading over at Krista's site and she notes > that > > > the slower > > > > > > people lost more *weight*, but the faster ones maintained > more > > > LBM, > > > > > > which is a HUGE point. Still, that puzzles me. Why would > a > > > lower > > > > > > intensity treadmill produce more weight loss, including > LBM > > > loss, than > > > > > > a higher intensity workout? It just makes no sense to > me. It > > > makes > > > > > > it sound as if a lower intensity workout is more > demanding, > > > causing > > > > > > both fat and LBM loss, and again, that makes no sense! > > > > > > > > > > > > For me it's not a matter of not wanting to break a sweat - > I'd > > > much > > > > > > rather go fast and hard and get my cardio over and done > with - > > > but my > > > > > > knees are becoming increasingly unhappy of late and I may > end > > > up being > > > > > > the equivalent of a mall walker soon, whether I will it or > no! > > > > > > Scout > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 11, 2006 Report Share Posted July 11, 2006 I lived in a 700 square foot apartment with a Doberman and a pit bull. We ran 4 miles together every morning and went for an hour walk every evening and I weighed 40 pounds less than I do today. What was I thinking? > In defense of Bejio Bear, Great Danes are large but don't require as > much exercise as a lot of dogs so they are actually good apartment > dogs. > > I live in NYC also and I take my hat off to anyone who has the > discipline to even have a dog in the city. :-) > > >> > >> > Exactly. >> > Ive seen dogs the size of bovines residing in the city- what >> > are these owners thinking? >> > >> > -- >> > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 11, 2006 Report Share Posted July 11, 2006 I actually wasn't thinking so much the exercise aspect as I know many big dogs, Irish Wolfhounds for example, don't need a whole lot of activity. I was just thinking of the logisitics of such a BIG dog in what was termed a 'tiny' apartment. And also was thinking about the need to'stoop n' scoop'.... Scout > > In defense of Bejio Bear, Great Danes are large but don't require as > much exercise as a lot of dogs so they are actually good apartment > dogs. > > I live in NYC also and I take my hat off to anyone who has the > discipline to even have a dog in the city. :-) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 11, 2006 Report Share Posted July 11, 2006 Yes. In cross country, and track, we were supposed to pretty much lay on your back with your legs up against a wall or fence or something, for a good 5-10 minutes ... I still do this and I never really get that sore the next day, but I can still feel in my leg muscles that they have been worked. > > > Godo point, Skwigg. I thought about the nutrition aspect as well > > > since that wasn't monitored in any way. > > > > > > I was just reading over at Krista's site and she notes that the > slower > > > people lost more *weight*, but the faster ones maintained more > LBM, > > > which is a HUGE point. Still, that puzzles me. Why would a > lower > > > intensity treadmill produce more weight loss, including LBM > loss, than > > > a higher intensity workout? It just makes no sense to me. It > makes > > > it sound as if a lower intensity workout is more demanding, > causing > > > both fat and LBM loss, and again, that makes no sense! > > > > > > For me it's not a matter of not wanting to break a sweat - I'd > much > > > rather go fast and hard and get my cardio over and done with - > but my > > > knees are becoming increasingly unhappy of late and I may end up > being > > > the equivalent of a mall walker soon, whether I will it or no! > > > Scout > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 11, 2006 Report Share Posted July 11, 2006 I also wanted to mention that when I did start doing track training, in addition to losing inches and LOTS more definition ... I only lost about 4 lbs on the scale the entire 3 months of the season. I didnt have any body fat measuring things back then, but I was in the best shape of my life! When I ran distance, I dropped pounds at first (I would say the first month, month and a half) and then that was it, and again, no real definition... > > > > > Godo point, Skwigg. I thought about the nutrition aspect as > > well > > > > > since that wasn't monitored in any way. > > > > > > > > > > I was just reading over at Krista's site and she notes that > > the slower > > > > > people lost more *weight*, but the faster ones maintained more > > LBM, > > > > > which is a HUGE point. Still, that puzzles me. Why would a > > lower > > > > > intensity treadmill produce more weight loss, including LBM > > loss, than > > > > > a higher intensity workout? It just makes no sense to me. It > > makes > > > > > it sound as if a lower intensity workout is more demanding, > > causing > > > > > both fat and LBM loss, and again, that makes no sense! > > > > > > > > > > For me it's not a matter of not wanting to break a sweat - I'd > > much > > > > > rather go fast and hard and get my cardio over and done with - > > but my > > > > > knees are becoming increasingly unhappy of late and I may end > > up being > > > > > the equivalent of a mall walker soon, whether I will it or no! > > > > > Scout > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 11, 2006 Report Share Posted July 11, 2006 How old are your running shoes? Are they good quality? Are you sure they are right for your feet and stride? We grow up buying shoes that are 'good enough' and often don't learn how to buy shoes that are best for the use we will put them too. If you have been running in these shoes for more than six months and have just started to have knee problems, it might be time for a new pair. Barbara Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 11, 2006 Report Share Posted July 11, 2006 Barbara, you are absolutely right about good shoes being a must. It makes a world of difference.I'm running in Sauconys that were new in March so I think they are still good. I usually start to get back pain when my shoes wear out. I've been guilty of going far too long in a pair of shoes before, but this time I don't think that's it. Mind you, I don't like these Sauconys as much as I did my last pair. I wish they didn't change styles so often. I'm thinking now that my thyroid meds may need to be adjusted again. One of the first signe with me is joint pain and I'm beginning to get sore now in my wrists and shoulders too. Scout > > How old are your running shoes? Are they good quality? Are you sure > they are right for your feet and stride? > > We grow up buying shoes that are 'good enough' and often don't learn > how to buy shoes that are best for the use we will put them too. If > you have been running in these shoes for more than six months and have > just started to have knee problems, it might be time for a new pair. > > Barbara > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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