Re: Tincture Percentage?

[Guest guest]

Hi Adam, thank you for your response. In working out what the alcohol

content of a finished tincture is, there are various methods. Some are

outlined in a useful paper on tinctures;

http://www.scribd.com/doc/7277849/making-an-herbal-tincture

However, as perfumery requires higher alcohol content, the issue

regarding solubility would be different for perfumery. A hydrometer is

really useful for finding out what the alcohol content is of a finished

tincture, especially if you are using fresh plant material. What I am

trying to establish is how do you equate the aromatic content of a

specific tincture to oils per volume or weight? Some tinctures can

indeed be so potent that you require only small amounts in your

finished product. So, to arrive at what concentration aromatic material

your perfume blend has in the finished perfume (whether Parfum Extrait,

Eau de Parfum, Eau de Toilette, or Eau de Cologne) what percentage does

a tincture add? This will obviously vary according to the tincture

strength, but what I am wondering is whether there is formula to work

this out as one have in medicinal tinctures, or whether a standard of

strength exist in the Guild to establish this. Alternatively is their

perhaps an instrument to measure this, or does one need to submit a

tincture to a lab?

As for toxicity I have for example a wonderful Broom/Genet tincture

which I would love to use, but haven't because I do not know the ratio

of the tincture would be safe in a finished product

[Guest guest]

" What I am trying to establish is how do you equate the aromatic

content of a specific tincture to oils per volume or weight? "

Hi Sophia

am impressed by your diligence, and thanks for giving a novice

something to think about!

If I read your initial question correctly, you are wanting to met EU

and IFRA guidelines, relating to known [suspected?] allergens,

irritants and toxins, which may only be present in fractions of

percentages of the whole eoil or absolute.... and hence, in even

smaller percentages in a tincture or infusion.

We should always be able to request Certificates of Analysis [CA] from

our suppliers - even then the Certificate is only of value if tests

such as Gas Chromatography [GCT] have been performed on EVERY product

a supplier receives and then re-sells.

Seasonal, environmental and other factors change the chemical profile

of eoils, so last year's CA will differ from this year's.

If we make a tincture using aromatic material with a unique CA, we

will know the percentages of each chemical before we start.

If we make a tincture or infusion using - say - flowers from our

gardens, as NP-ers love to do, I don't know of a way to precisely

assess and measure individual chemical 'irritants' or 'toxins' without

lab analysis.

To me it seems almost impossible as artisans - working by hand, making

our own tinctures and infusions from raw materials - to evaluate

ratios and percentages of the multitudes of aromatic and/or functional

chemicals in each 'batch', without paying a lab to perform GCT and

other tests.

Experienced, professional NP-ers may have an answer to this, but I

can't see an easier, inexpensive way around it.

I suppose the only other thing to consider, would be that the

'potency' you refer to, is not necessarily an indicator of the

percentage of 'problematic' individual chemicals.

Hope this helps; and thanks for reminding us that making NPs suitable

for retail in the EU requires EFFORT and $$$$$$.

Margi

[Guest guest]

Hi Margi

Thanks, yes it does seem that the only way to really establish

aromatic content of a tincture is the lab way. I must say one of my

thoughts were for at least fresh plant material is to do a Hydrometer

test after the tincture is finished, see how much lower the alcohol

content is, and if as genrally assumed that half the fresh weight is

water, then the alcohol content should be lower accordingly and how

much it is lower give an indication of how much aromatic content has

also been absorbed in the tincture. However, my logic might not be

correct in this assumption.

I get my Alcohol from a local lab that does analysis for the wine

industry. I think I will go and chat to them and ask if they have any

suggestions. The wine industry has so much in common with perfumery.

So maybe.

I also enjoy as a hobby experimenting with making fruit and herb

wines. I have even ticture some of the lees from my wine. I just love

that yeasty scent. I love the following quote from an old book on

wine making because it reflects so much the same interest we as

natural perfumers making our own tinctures has;

" A wine maker can now look at his roses with a new interest and grow

lettuce to quench his thirst. He can view primroses with a more than

poetic interest and become positively lyrical about bramble tips.

Even pansies seem to wink encouragingly to him from their humble

position in the garden borders, promising future pleasure. "

Anyway a bit of the topic, but I will let you know if I get some

positive answers.

Sophia