Re: Re: high humidity levels inside house--been there

[Guest guest]

I WILL NEVER BUY A 3 SPEED SYSTEM AGAIN. I NEED LOTS OF AIR AND THIS THING IS

SELF-DEFEATING.

fletch_82000 <fletch_8@...> wrote: Hi Leigh McCall-Alton,

YOU WROTE:yes i do have a vaiable speed system and it is set at high.

it seems it got moe humid after the adjustment was made from medium

to high. could that be the issue???

My Lennox, when I had the fan speed higher, would slow the fan down

very slow when it goes into a dehumidifing mode. I have my fan set to

run as slow as possible at all times, this will remove the most

humidity.

I also set the fan to " on " so that it never shuts off. This will

quickly dry the coils once the heat pump shuts off and will keep mold

and bacteria from growing on the coils. Plus, if you have a good air

filter in your system, it will filter the air moreso and at the slow

speeds, you can hardly even hear it.

You said your den does not cool correctly? Too cold or too hot? What

is your floor plan and where does the den fit in? My basement was too

cool and at first I even had to seal up some of the vents since they

leaked too much cold air in the summer. This summer, with that pipe

from the ceiling in our upstairs hallway to the basement I mentioned

earlier, has cured our cold basement since that is the hotest air in

the house and it keeps the basement very close to the upstairs

temperature. Plus it is a way to get our air exchanger's fresh air

into the basement since it was not getting any with the vents all being

closed in the summertime.

Fletch

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[Guest guest]

Mccallalton,

The details I previously posted was to help understand some of the

factors before a working system is needlessly trashed. Then, as

others have pointed out, there are ways in which an appropriate

system may not be working correctly. But regardless of whether it is

performing within specs or not, if you are uncomfortable that is what

needs to be addressed.

Many of my " tutorials " are to help understand whether or not the

attributed cause is probable or even possible. The most common

difficulty with any indoor environmental problems, whether mold or

humidity, is incorrect attribution of the cause. We blame the wrong

cause.

If our complaints are based on a wrong claim, the defense experts

quickly shoot down the WHOLE issue, not just our claim of the cause.

That leaves us with defending the undefensible while the real problem

gets lost in the arguments. So I am a firm believer of stating the

effect and engage the experts in actively figuring out the cause(s).

One excellent source for information on your orginal complaint is the

group IEQuality. You can join at:

iequality/

Lots of ASHRAE guys there that can explain the details of A/C in

terms of both cooling and dehumidification. It not as simple as

installing " something " or getting a bigger unit. Often the bigger A/C

is worse because as Fletch and others have said, if it cools to

quickly it doesn't have time for the slower process of removing

humidity. Also, as the post from Barb on comfort index said (that I

re-posted) the balance of temperature and humidity is tricky. We can

easily be fooled by how it feels. Kind of like the Wind Chill in the

winter where the temp may be 25 degrees but it feels like 10 below.

Yes, if you are uncomfortable, something is wrong and it needs to be

addressed. But the cause isn't always obvious and the solution can be

even more bedeviling.

Carl Grimes

Healthy Habitats LLC

-----

> > I WILL NEVER BUY A 3 SPEED SYSTEM AGAIN. I NEED LOTS OF AIR AND

> > THIS

> THING IS SELF-DEFEATING.

>

> Hi Mccallalton,

>

> This board will need much more information on your setup and what

> exactly your problems are to give any meaningful advice if that is

> what you would like.

>

> I do not follow why you think a three speed would be any different

> than a single speed system. Most newer air handlers I have seen can

> put out higher cfms than older units. The three speed would simply

> allow you to choose slower speeds. If you have your old owners manual

> you would know the exact cfms it puts out and then you could compare

> it to your new system's three speeds of cfm output. I would almost

> bet it puts out as much if not more. Unless your new air handler is

> much smaller.

>

> High fan speed will run the compressor less since rooms will cool to

> the desired temperature sooner. Low fan speeds will run the

> compressor longer and remove much more moisture from the air in the

> process.

>

> If you provide more information, maybe someone here could see what is

> going on.

>

> Best wishes,

> Fletch

>

>

>

>

>

> FAIR USE NOTICE:

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

i HAVE A TRANE MULTISPEED SYSTEM. WHEN THE FAN IS ON BY ITSELF THE SYSTEM PUTS

OUT JUST A TRICKLE OF AIR.

fletch_82000 <fletch_8@...> wrote: > I WILL NEVER BUY A 3 SPEED

SYSTEM AGAIN. I NEED LOTS OF AIR AND THIS

THING IS SELF-DEFEATING.

Hi Mccallalton,

This board will need much more information on your setup and what

exactly your problems are to give any meaningful advice if that is what

you would like.

I do not follow why you think a three speed would be any different than

a single speed system. Most newer air handlers I have seen can put out

higher cfms than older units. The three speed would simply allow you

to choose slower speeds. If you have your old owners manual you would

know the exact cfms it puts out and then you could compare it to your

new system's three speeds of cfm output. I would almost bet it puts

out as much if not more. Unless your new air handler is much smaller.

High fan speed will run the compressor less since rooms will cool to

the desired temperature sooner. Low fan speeds will run the compressor

longer and remove much more moisture from the air in the process.

If you provide more information, maybe someone here could see what is

going on.

Best wishes,

Fletch

---------------------------------

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[Guest guest]

Leigh, you would probably get the feeling of

'more air', if you got more oxygen in your house,

by putting in a fresh air intake. That made a

huge difference to me. However I can't use it

right now as the mold count is too high to let

outside air indoors. I have a filter on it but

only a MERV 11 and for my health and the high

count outside, probably high mycotoxin level also

with that much mold and the filter would do

nothing to keep the toxins out.

--- Leigh McCall-Alton <mccallalton@...>

wrote:

> i HAVE A TRANE MULTISPEED SYSTEM. WHEN THE FAN

> IS ON BY ITSELF THE SYSTEM PUTS OUT JUST A

> TRICKLE OF AIR.

>

[Guest guest]

thanks barb.

bbw <barb1283@...> wrote: Leigh, you would probably get the

feeling of

'more air', if you got more oxygen in your house,

by putting in a fresh air intake. That made a

huge difference to me. However I can't use it

right now as the mold count is too high to let

outside air indoors. I have a filter on it but

only a MERV 11 and for my health and the high

count outside, probably high mycotoxin level also

with that much mold and the filter would do

nothing to keep the toxins out.

--- Leigh McCall-Alton <mccallalton@...>

wrote:

> i HAVE A TRANE MULTISPEED SYSTEM. WHEN THE FAN

> IS ON BY ITSELF THE SYSTEM PUTS OUT JUST A

> TRICKLE OF AIR.

>

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[Guest guest]

barb--i just called my mold guy and he says to test at 2 to 4 pm because that is

when the count is highest.

bbw <barb1283@...> wrote: Leigh, you would probably get the

feeling of

'more air', if you got more oxygen in your house,

by putting in a fresh air intake. That made a

huge difference to me. However I can't use it

right now as the mold count is too high to let

outside air indoors. I have a filter on it but

only a MERV 11 and for my health and the high

count outside, probably high mycotoxin level also

with that much mold and the filter would do

nothing to keep the toxins out.

--- Leigh McCall-Alton <mccallalton@...>

wrote:

> i HAVE A TRANE MULTISPEED SYSTEM. WHEN THE FAN

> IS ON BY ITSELF THE SYSTEM PUTS OUT JUST A

> TRICKLE OF AIR.

>

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[Guest guest]

For what it's worth, the fact that there is moisture on the outside

of your windows (and it's not raining) means the temperature of the

window is below the dew point of the outside air. (Just like a glass

of ice water condenses water on the outside of the glass).

Because moisture is not on the inside of the window means the

temperature of the window is ABOVE the dew point of the inside air.

This means the inside dew point is lower than outside dewpoint. Which

further means there is less water vapor (specific humidity) in the

inside air than in the outside air. This can only mean that moisture

has been removed from the inside air, so your A/C is actually

dehumidifying a LOT.

However, you are uncomfortable. So either the A/C cannot dehumidify

enough, or it is cooling too much, or the combination of the very

chilled air combined with the amount of water vapor left in the air

(specific humidity) is in your discomfort zone.

The total problem you described as also including the need for air

movement and filtering (plus sound and vibration) is what drives HVAC

designers and installers crazy! And that's before it is installed in

a building. And then people have the temerity to enter the building

and do things...

like breath.

But the good ones know how to do it.

Carl Grimes

Healthy Habitats LLC

-----

> THERE IS MOISTURE ON THE OUTSIDE OF MY WINDOWS

[Guest guest]

Hi Leigh, yes lower fan speed is designed to help

a/c take extra humidity out of the air. If air

is moving fast it does not make good contact with

dehumidifying coils and more water is left in

air. People buy adjusters to put on their fans

to slow them down in summer so the a/c can wring

more water out of air as it moves through system.

They recommend setting air system at high only

to quickly change air temperature, like you have

been out of house and it is very hot, or cold,

and you want temperature change to be quick.

However to dry house out, you turn fan down to

lowest speed you have.

--- mccallalton <mccallalton@...> wrote:

yes i do have a vaiable speed system and

> it is set at high.

> it seems it got moe humid after the adjustment

> was made from medium

> to high. could that be the issue???

>

[Guest guest]

THERE IS MOISTURE ON THE OUTSIDE OF MY WINDOWS

bbw <barb1283@...> wrote: Hi Leigh, yes lower fan speed is

designed to help

a/c take extra humidity out of the air. If air

is moving fast it does not make good contact with

dehumidifying coils and more water is left in

air. People buy adjusters to put on their fans

to slow them down in summer so the a/c can wring

more water out of air as it moves through system.

They recommend setting air system at high only

to quickly change air temperature, like you have

been out of house and it is very hot, or cold,

and you want temperature change to be quick.

However to dry house out, you turn fan down to

lowest speed you have.

--- mccallalton <mccallalton@...> wrote:

yes i do have a vaiable speed system and

> it is set at high.

> it seems it got moe humid after the adjustment

> was made from medium

> to high. could that be the issue???

>

---------------------------------

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[Guest guest]

Okay. Thanks. I guess that is good time on

typical day to do mold testing. Perhaps heat has

had time to stir things up pretty well by then.

I'm sure this is generality also.

I've learned alot about mold by testing myself.

For example I've learned that in my house, the

basement air is as healthy as anywhere else in

the house. Apparently because of many vents in

basement and also louvered door that leads from

basement to upstairs, whole house air is mixed

well with basement air. I used to think basement

would be dirtier air and stopped a project to set

up an office down there (on concrete floor, not

carpeting basement, etc), but all air tests are

the same down there as elsewhere in house,

professional and do it yourself. I've had both.

I learned to not leave any food out without a

cover over it. Boy, when you see fussy things

growing WHEREVER and WHENEVER you leave a petri

dish out for 30 minutes, you don't really want to

eat a sandwich you made a half hour ago and phone

rang and you left it sit there uncovered for half

hour or so anymore. I learned the worse areas of

the house where mold was actually growing was the

two areas where there is no way to control

humidity, porch and attic. However I used to

open porch doors up on nice weather days to get

" fresh air " into the house, now doors are kept

shut until things can be changed. Porch was

built with materials not suited to high humidity,

more indoor materials including drapery at one

time. Those have been thrown away. My house is

not a mold pit. It had some mainenance problems

that can be fixed. I got very sick though before

I realized it. I don't think moving is solution

for me. I think fixing the maintenance problem

is right solution for me. I may move out until

it is done.

--- Leigh McCall-Alton <mccallalton@...>

wrote:

> barb--i just called my mold guy and he says to

> test at 2 to 4 pm because that is when the

> count is highest.

>

[Guest guest]

Leigh,

Wring the humidity out of your air at the end of

the day by turning down the a/c setting to lower

than you like it. Put a jacket on if necessary.

When humidity is good and low again, turn the a/c

setting back to a temperature you are more

comfortable at, and at least it won't be humid

all day in your house.

During the day doesn't work too well since a/c is

probably running constantly anyway just to keep

house cool but at night it shuts off once in

awhile when it cools off a bit, so then is your

chance to bring the humidity in your house down

below 50%.

You need to have a good humidity gauge. Many

people here got type sold at the online allergy

sellers, like National Allergy if you don't

already have a good one.

You've got to keep that humidity down. My old

system is letting humidity get up to 60% during

the day, so I wring it out in the early evening.

Sometimes I have to do it a couple of times

before I go to bed at night. I will probably get

a Sante Fe like Fletch mentioned for next summer

if I'm still here.

--- Leigh McCall-Alton <mccallalton@...>

wrote:

> I WILL NEVER BUY A 3 SPEED SYSTEM AGAIN. I

> NEED LOTS OF AIR AND THIS THING IS

> SELF-DEFEATING.

>

[Guest guest]

Yes, I hate the noise. It's like having a truck

running in my house all the time. Sometimes I

just have to turn it off no matter what the

humidity is to give my ears a rest from the

racket. Yes, it's awful. I will get a whole

house dehumidifier for next summer. No use now

this late in summer to go through the expense but

will get one installed before it gets humid next

spring.

--- Leigh McCall-Alton <mccallalton@...>

wrote:

> I have 3 gauges of varying quality and they are

> all within a degree or two.

>

[Guest guest]

this disease never ends. and the thing is, medical doctors don't believe us

even when we have proof with the blood tests, etc. i am tired from tired of

being sick.

bbw <barb1283@...> wrote: Yes, I hate the noise. It's like having

a truck

running in my house all the time. Sometimes I

just have to turn it off no matter what the

humidity is to give my ears a rest from the

racket. Yes, it's awful. I will get a whole

house dehumidifier for next summer. No use now

this late in summer to go through the expense but

will get one installed before it gets humid next

spring.

--- Leigh McCall-Alton <mccallalton@...>

wrote:

> I have 3 gauges of varying quality and they are

> all within a degree or two.

>

---------------------------------

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[Guest guest]

I use an air conditioner and air cleaners in my home. Have to keep it dry or

I get sick. I clean out my air conditioners every three weeks. They are not

large and a friend helps me.

[Guest guest]

thank you.

Gingersnap1964@... wrote: I use an air conditioner and air cleaners

in my home. Have to keep it dry or

I get sick. I clean out my air conditioners every three weeks. They are not

large and a friend helps me.

[Guest guest]

Mold and algaes are definately getting worse.

Concrete in backyard and front has bright green

algae on it. I have never seen that before since

I've been coming here, 1990.

--- who <jeaninem660@...> wrote:

> -Im tired of it all too. a few months ago my

> daughter rented a home

> in the country, I wasn't up to going and mold

[Guest guest]

did you have much of a freeze last winter???

bbw <barb1283@...> wrote: Mold and algaes are definately getting

worse.

Concrete in backyard and front has bright green

algae on it. I have never seen that before since

I've been coming here, 1990.

--- who <jeaninem660@...> wrote:

> -Im tired of it all too. a few months ago my

> daughter rented a home

> in the country, I wasn't up to going and mold

---------------------------------

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[Guest guest]

No. I think we had a very mild winter.

--- Leigh McCall-Alton <mccallalton@...>

wrote:

> did you have much of a freeze last winter???

>