Re: Please check my fitday from 4/1 to 4/18

April 19, 2006

My first thought is that your calories may still be too high and your

free days may still be to big to be coming up with a consistent

deficit. And there's still an awful lot of jelly beans and malt balls

and onion rings and ice cream in your daily meals.

I think I've said this before and scared everyone, but in my case, in

order to get fat loss of to 1-2 pounds per week, I need to eat about

1100-1400 cals a day and not take a free anything, and that's with my

current activity level. Obviously, you want to eat the most that you

can while still consistently losing, but if you're not losing at all,

chances are you're still eating too much food or not clean enough.

I know there's a quality of life issue, and you don't want to do

something so radical that it's not enjoyable or maintainable. But if

you keep the Oreos and hard candy little scoops of ice cream, you have

to also be willing to accept slower (or no) results. And that's a

valid choice. Not everybody wants to make huge sacrifices to be as

lean as humanly possible. I don't. Not anymore. But I don't get down

about not being leaner or not losing any weight when I'm being

creative with the authorized foods list. :-)

You've got an awful lot of foods to measure and calculate for each

meal. The first one of eggs, lox, yogurt, flax, and walnut has you

juggling 2 proteins, a carb, and 2 fats. Things might be simpler and

your results might be better if you went back to palm and fist and

authorized foods rather than having many different protein and carb

portions at each meal and running the math on them. Like eggs/apple.

Done.

Just some thoughts.

> and all,

>

> Remember me, I'm n's older sister. I've been quiet because I've

> not been having results.

>

> Okay, so I thought I'm not losing weight because I occasionally eat

> candy during the week. But I just plotted Fitday from April 1 to today,

> based on my accurate written journal. It's a bit high on fat, but it's

> healthy fat: almonds, salmon, light cheeses, etc. I did that on purpose

> this month because I'm constipated. (I've also been taking 2 T of

> flaxseed, ground, daily, and haven't added it into my calories or fat.

> It hasn't really been helping my constipation and I'm thinking of

> switching to the oil to see if that makes a difference).

>

> http://www.fitday.com/WebFit/PublicJournals.html?Owner=etanafinkler

>

> I am on C2W8D2

> I started at 168 and am now at 166; my low was 163 during this 1.5

> challenges

> I possibly/probably lost 2 inches in the upper leg, maybe 1 inch in

> waist and in hips.

> My body does not look any different.

> This is in 20 weeks.

> I turn 60 at end of May. I had hoped to be 155, but I'll take 159.

> Really, I would just like the key to starting results happening; I'm so

> frustrated and confused.

>

> I am off grains except oatmeal due to poor digestion and constipation;

> I'm seeing an alternative Dr. who has me off grains.

> He doesn't want me to eat much fruit either, because of the sugar.

> (apples are fine)

> With those restrictions, I think I'm doing pretty well with my food.

>

> Am I eating too much ... too little?

> If you look at Fitday.com, at the charts, you will see I am burning

> more than I am eating, I am keeping the calorie range up pretty well, I

> am zig zagging, I have really cut down the binges in my free-days (no

> freeday over 2500 calories for this challenge 2). I am not TOTALLY

> clean on my non-free days. This is my weak spot, but even with the

> cheats, my Fitday numbers are MUCH better than I was tabulating in my

> journal.

>

> I am exercising 6-7 days a week, not too much, but I add 1-3 Jazzercise

> classes, and lately I'm adding 20 min cardio before my HIIT 2 more

> days. With this increased cardio the past week, I have been feeling

> hungry at meal times, which is new for me, and I THOUGHT I'm finally

> pumping my metabolism up. Then I got on the scale today and I was back

> up to 166. I quad press 230, leg press 107. I'm definitely hitting 9s

> all the time, and I think I'm hitting 10's in most areas. I get to the

> point I can't lift it higher, and I can't seem to finish that rep with

> my mind, my arm just stops halfway up.

>

> I think I'm a solid endomorph, pear-shaped, and I just don't know what

> to do to keep my spirit up and get some results going. I have been 165

> for the past 2 years -- years of WeightWatchers before I started BFL

> 11/28/05. Actually I had gotten down to 161 within the past 2 years,

> eating 1100 calories and tons of cardio. I'm really tempted to have a

> month of 1100 calories again, but all that I'm reading in BFFM and here

> tells me not to do that, because in the long run, it will weaken my

> metabolism. Maybe I should range between 1200 and 1400 with occasional

> 1800 calorie days? The only time I really charted results of about 1.5

> lbs per week was when I was eating 1000-1100 calories not counting

> green vegies, but it wasn't much food ;-(

>

> thanks for any wise words.

> My photos from C1W1D1 are under Etana in the files

> Do you think Bill might be worth contacting? or is that

> ridiculous?

> I still love BFL. My eating is so sane. I'm not even minding LBWO or

> HIIT these past few weeks since I decided to just DO it.

>

> Today I ate:

> M1 3 egg white, 1egg, 1.5 oz lox omelette, and 1/2C fatfree yogurt with

> 2T flaxseeds, 1T walnuts

> M2 1/2 C cottage cheese and 6 oz yogurt

> M3 large salad, 1 C grated raw beets, 1T lite Italian dressing; 3/4C

> EFL sloppy Joe on a small baked potato

> M4 1.5 oz lite swiss cheese, 1 apple, 1/2 orange

> M5 3 oz shrimp, 1C brocolli, 8 spears asparagus, " Bombay Potatoes "

> (105cal, 4g fat-13g carb- 5g protein)

> M6 Designer's Whey protein shake w/ 1/2C frozen strawberries

>

> Oh, I have been 50% skipping meal 6 lately from BFFL, usually only if

> I'm hungry.

> M1 8am

> M2 11am

> M3 2pm

> M4 5pm

> M5 8:30pm

> M6 10:30pm

>

> M-W-F weights; T-Th-Sat HIIT; Sat Sun Jazzercise;

>

> thanks

> - Etana

April 19, 2006

,

So you are saying that at your weight, to lose you would eat 1100-1400, (and

maybe free day up to 2000?), but to maintain, you can eat 2400 cal/day? That

sounds like an appealing goal.

Oh, you said, " 1100-1400 cals a day and not take a free anything... and that's

with my current activity level ... " NO free day at all????? OUCH

I had spent the past month increasing my calories from what I'm reading on the

list ( " although it goes against all you THINK, increase your calories to 1800

and you will lose, " has been talked about here). But I agree with you, and will

give the 1100-1400 cal, 2000 max freeday, probably a little lighter on the carb,

like 25f-35c-40p, and increase my vegetables so I'm not hungry. I think I will

also do 5 meals: 8, 11, 2, 5:30, and 9 sounds acceptable for my schedule, unless

I am really hungry ... I did like that evening dessert/protein shake though, but

I can do it a few days a week, or when my 5 meals are small.

I'll keep the group posted about my results.

I have to compliment this group, every one: this is such a " meaty " (no pun

intended) group with such rich content, encouragement that's so much more then,

" Hi Jane Doe... atta girl! " ... but really detailed specific content on all 3

realms of exercise, food, and mental. I so look forward to reading.

I notice the messages I tend to want to skip are the ones on cheating and mental

stuff, so that tells me, " sit up and READ this one!!! That post from Elise with

the quoted text on growing the muscle of resisting a cheat was really helpful!

to be continued...

Etana

April 19, 2006

Etana, the 'eat more lose more' worked for me, but I do a zig zag to

confuse my body. I actually have 2 high days and 5 low days. Here

is how I do it:

Sun/Mon/Tues: low (1400-1500 cals)

Wed: high (2200 cals)

Thurs/Fri: low

Sat: high

I minimize junk food as much as possible. I usually only have 1 or 2

free meals, on high days I just add a carb to each meal or have some

more processed calorie dense carbs (like w.w. pasta, w.w. bread,

raisins).

In addition to the standard bfl exercise, I also walk 2 miles each

morning and night 5 days a week. I think that's why I can get away

with the higher calories.

Based on other things I've read (BFFM), you need to find what works

for YOU. I know this isnt easy, it's taken me a long time to figure

ME out. lol Consider dropping your calories by 100-200 day for a

week and measure progress. Don't do a drastic 500-700 calorie drop

all of a sudden. I think this will help your sanity and allow you

to continue with the plan (stay motivated), but then you can see

when numbers start changing again. If you cut back too much, you

have no where else to go. Once you find that 'sweet spot' of

calories, then stick to that until you plateau again. Then you can

try cutting another 100 calories for a week and measure progress. Do

you get what I mean?

>>>>> I had spent the past month increasing my calories from what

I'm reading on the list ( " although it goes against all you THINK,

increase your calories to 1800 and you will lose, " has been talked

about here). But I agree with you, and will give the 1100-1400 cal,

2000 max freeday, probably a little lighter on the carb, like 25f-

35c-40p, and increase my vegetables so I'm not hungry.

April 19, 2006

Hi Etana,

I remember you by your lovely name, but not the details of your BFL

journey.

The constipation is a heads up on a slow metabolism.

These are the things that helped me...

-Take and chart your body temperature for one week.

-Google " body temperature and metabolism " to read up on this

-Put your scale away for 3 months

-Try soakig 3 prunes in water and having them first thing daily

-1 Tbs. flax oil at breakfast and 1 Tbs. flax oil at a later meal

-Take extra magnesium with your daily calcium tablets

-Double up on the water for a week, then don't go below 8 big glasses

a day

-add spagetti squash, and all green leafy vegetables to atleat 2 of

your meals each day.

Be in touch

M.

age 51

ps We love your sister too

> Remember me, I'm n's older sister. I've been quiet because I've

> not been having results.

April 19, 2006

My best results were when I averaged 1350 calories per day

(including Free day, so 1250-1300 most days and about 1800 on free

day) AND I added 40-50 minutes of additional, moderate intensity (3

on the treadmill with maybe a 2 incline) 5 days.

How sad that it took me 4 weeks to look back and find MY " sweet "

combo. I had it, but didn't realize it! I did that the week after

I read BFFM, and really took that burn it off to heart.

Anyway, good luck finding your sweet combo. Keep striving for it!

As soon as my back is 100% I'm going to repeat my sweet combo - I

can easily do my extra cardio at night after the kids go to bed

instead of watching TV (well, I can watch a DVD on the DVD player!).

Jami

>

> ,

> So you are saying that at your weight, to lose you would eat 1100-

1400, (and maybe free day up to 2000?), but to maintain, you can eat

2400 cal/day? That sounds like an appealing goal.

> Oh, you said, " 1100-1400 cals a day and not take a free

anything... and that's with my current activity level ... " NO free

day at all????? OUCH

> I had spent the past month increasing my calories from what I'm

reading on the list ( " although it goes against all you THINK,

increase your calories to 1800 and you will lose, " has been talked

about here). But I agree with you, and will give the 1100-1400 cal,

2000 max freeday, probably a little lighter on the carb, like 25f-

35c-40p, and increase my vegetables so I'm not hungry. I think I

will also do 5 meals: 8, 11, 2, 5:30, and 9 sounds acceptable for my

schedule, unless I am really hungry ... I did like that evening

dessert/protein shake though, but I can do it a few days a week, or

when my 5 meals are small.

> I'll keep the group posted about my results.

> I have to compliment this group, every one: this is such a " meaty "

(no pun intended) group with such rich content, encouragement that's

so much more then, " Hi Jane Doe... atta girl! " ... but really

detailed specific content on all 3 realms of exercise, food, and

mental. I so look forward to reading.

> I notice the messages I tend to want to skip are the ones on

cheating and mental stuff, so that tells me, " sit up and READ this

one!!! That post from Elise with the quoted text on growing the

muscle of resisting a cheat was really helpful!

> to be continued...

> Etana

>

April 20, 2006

After I did my fitday for the past 18 days, it was showing a natural zig zag

from about 1300 to 2200 cal; but n says when you make your link public, the

public can't see your reports, darn.

http://www.fitday.com/WebFit/PublicJournals.html?Owner=etanafinkler

You walk 2mi in am and 2 mi in pm? wow!

I've been doing an extra 2-4 hrs cardio per week

>Based on other things I've read (BFFM), you need to find what works

for YOU

Yeah <G> that's what I'm looking for.

>Consider dropping your calories by 100-200 day for a

week and measure progress.

>then you can see when numbers start changing again

That's the problem, the numbers have NEVER been moving for 2 years, not since I

went from 175 to 165 eating 1100 cal probably and cardio 6-8x week till my foot

almost fell off. ;-)

I do understand what you mean about not dropping down to 1100 so fast, because

then there's nowhere to go and I might as well do WW.

What do you guys think about a low week and a higher week: 1100-1300, then

1300-1500. I may zigzag between 1100 and 1500 and try that.

thanks, ETana

April 20, 2006

Remember that your average for the week, including free day if you

take one, may (*may* we're still guessing) have to be in that

1100-1400 range. So if you eat 1400 a day and take a 2000 cal free

day, that would put you at like a 1485 a day average and that might

not be enough to change anything.

I agree with , don't do anything too sudden and radical to your

calories. Drop them a little and see what happens, then drop them a

little more if necessary. That leaves you wiggle room. If you went

from your current calorie level straight to 1100 a day, you wouldn't

have anywhere else to go.

Remember, you can still have some higher days if you're zig-zagging

the calories, just make sure that overall your calories are dropping.

I saw Hussman's warning message again today, the one on the BMR

calculator that says if you're not losing weight, the idea that you

should eat even more is wishful thinking. He says that if people are

genuinely undereating, they'll be losing something (water, muscle,

hair, sanity) but if the scale is totally stalled, it's because

there's no calorie deficit.

I remember that it made me very mad when I first read that. I waved my

little fists in the air and cursed that Hussman person. :-) Now, after

hanging out on the boards for six years and watching hundreds of

transformations, I tend to agree with him. It's far more common for

people to underestimate their food intake than it is for them to be in

starvation mode. And if they are in starvation mode, they tend to be,

well, starving. As in, underweight, sunken-eyed, listless, cold. You

see compulsive exercisers and people with eating disorders in

starvation mode all the time. You hardly ever see somebody who still

has a lot of fat to lose in starvation mode. Humans can and do starve.

If you cut off somebody's food supply, it's not like they're going to

maintain or gain weight because they're in starvation mode. Reading

the BFL boards you would tend to think that though.

> ,

> So you are saying that at your weight, to lose you would eat 1100-1400, (and

maybe free day up to 2000?), but to maintain, you can eat 2400 cal/day? That

sounds like an appealing goal.

> Oh, you said, " 1100-1400 cals a day and not take a free anything... and that's

with my current activity level ... " NO free day at all????? OUCH

> I had spent the past month increasing my calories from what I'm reading on the

list ( " although it goes against all you THINK, increase your calories to 1800

and you will lose, " has been talked about here). But I agree with you, and will

give the 1100-1400 cal, 2000 max freeday, probably a little lighter on the carb,

like 25f-35c-40p, and increase my vegetables so I'm not hungry. I think I will

also do 5 meals: 8, 11, 2, 5:30, and 9 sounds acceptable for my schedule, unless

I am really hungry ... I did like that evening dessert/protein shake though, but

I can do it a few days a week, or when my 5 meals are small.

> I'll keep the group posted about my results.

> I have to compliment this group, every one: this is such a " meaty " (no pun

intended) group with such rich content, encouragement that's so much more then,

" Hi Jane Doe... atta girl! " ... but really detailed specific content on all 3

realms of exercise, food, and mental. I so look forward to reading.

> I notice the messages I tend to want to skip are the ones on cheating and

mental stuff, so that tells me, " sit up and READ this one!!! That post from

Elise with the quoted text on growing the muscle of resisting a cheat was really

helpful!

> to be continued...

> Etana

>

April 20, 2006

" tjay1302000 " wrote:

>The constipation is a heads up on a slow metabolism.

-Put your scale away for 3 months

I don't think so, I'll be up to 170 before you know it. NEVER.

-add spagetti squash

why specifically that?

I'm really INCREASING my vegies again, but why that one?

I'll write down and keep your suggestions...

Why do you think flaxoil is better than ground flaxseed?

That's 260 calories of flaxoil... I don't think I will do that, but I'll

probably do 1 T instead of the seeds.

my BFL: I started Nov 28, 2005, so I'm in C2W8D4, and I have lost 2 lbs, and

maybe 1-2 inches off my thighs, maybe 1 " off my hips, maybe 1/2 " off waist.

Nothing noticable. Past WeightWatcher, fighting the low point game, eating three

1-pt fudgicles for dinner. 8 years ago I was 206#. very slow metabolism, chronic

constipation, prunes never did anything, but I may try them again.

thanks, Etana

April 20, 2006

AH HA! Yes! 100%!!!

I posted in week 5 or 6 that I was back on my plateau and got so

many " raise your calorie " comments I couldn't believe it! I read

that Hussman thing and laughed out loud. And of course BFFM says

that too - manage your caloric deficit. (so of course I ignored the

idea to raise my calories - I'm a healthy, well fed girl! Not

starving at alllll!).

I think that we can (mostly)all easily underestimate our caloric

intake by 500 calories a day. POOF, there goes your weightloss for

the week. Up in flames. Or, if you eat only 300 more than you

should your weightloss goes down to .4 or .2 lbs for the week.

Definately unmotivating!

Here's what I did to break my plateau:

Ok, palm/fist for those of you who CAN use that method. But for me,

it has to be measured. My palm gets big, and so does my fist, and

before you know it I blow my caloric deficit and potential

weightloss. And I put it all in my excel worksheet and make sure

the ratios are right, over the day, and the calories are reasonable.

And, don't be afraid to throw in some fat burning moments in the

day. Eating increases your metabolism, so try for 6 meals. But so

does good old exercise. Jumping jacks, stairs, walking, whatever.

I'm not saying to change into special clothes, just pump up the

metabolism. Feel cold? Get on the stairmaster! Forget the

sweater... 10 minutes a few times a day and you MAKE a metabolism.

Walk to lunch.

Also, I know that it's hard to fit in 6 meals. I eat every hour or

so for the first 3 hours of my day. Quite a change from my previous

WW life! I have a latte at 7, 8 (these count as 1 meal) and

oatmeal/protein/walnut at 9:30, lunch at 12:30, snack at 2 or 3,

dinner at 5:30, snack at 8pm. Eating more early in the day helps

boost that metabolism.

Have you heard of the Wendie Plan thru WW? It is simply a zig zag

method/plateau buster. They did a lot of testing about how to do it

and this is what they recommend:

For a 1350 average calorie intake

1100 (low day)

1350 (med day)

1150 (low day)

1800 (high day)

1100 (low day)

1300 (med day)

1400 (med day)

So, I always had a Saturday high day and Sunday was always low (this

took practice!). Precede your high day with a low day and always

follow your high day with a low day. Also, they recommend using

those high day calories to fuel a nice workout. I used to do this

all the time on WW.

I can't seem to get into the groove to do it on BFL (although, my

biggest weightloss week was when I did zig zag using this method).

I need to do it! The problem is, I now am used to having a free

meal on Friday night and another free meal on Sunday night!

BFFM says to zig zag by eating low calories for 3 days, then have 1

high calorie day (accelerated fat loss method). He says do 30%

below TDEE for the low calorie days then follow it up with a

maintenance level day. This wasn't making me happy because I like 7

day patterns. I suppose one could make this work by doing Friday

High, Sat/Sun/Mon Low, Tues High, Weds/Thurs Low. I might venture

to try this method of that scale doesn't move soon.

Sorry for so much info. These subjects caused me great grief and

suffering (ppl telling me to eat more when the scale wasn't moving!

My knowing in my heart that more food was NOT what I needed).

So, good luck with your plateau. Let us know how it goes and what

worked for you.

Jami

>

> Remember that your average for the week, including free day if you

> take one, may (*may* we're still guessing) have to be in that

> 1100-1400 range. So if you eat 1400 a day and take a 2000 cal free

> day, that would put you at like a 1485 a day average and that might

> not be enough to change anything.

>

> I agree with , don't do anything too sudden and radical to

your

> calories. Drop them a little and see what happens, then drop them a

> little more if necessary. That leaves you wiggle room. If you went

> from your current calorie level straight to 1100 a day, you

wouldn't

> have anywhere else to go.

>

> Remember, you can still have some higher days if you're zig-zagging

> the calories, just make sure that overall your calories are

dropping.

> I saw Hussman's warning message again today, the one on the BMR

> calculator that says if you're not losing weight, the idea that you

> should eat even more is wishful thinking. He says that if people

are

> genuinely undereating, they'll be losing something (water, muscle,

> hair, sanity) but if the scale is totally stalled, it's because

> there's no calorie deficit.

>

> I remember that it made me very mad when I first read that. I

waved my

> little fists in the air and cursed that Hussman person. :-) Now,

after

> hanging out on the boards for six years and watching hundreds of

> transformations, I tend to agree with him. It's far more common for

> people to underestimate their food intake than it is for them to

be in

> starvation mode. And if they are in starvation mode, they tend to

be,

> well, starving. As in, underweight, sunken-eyed, listless, cold.

You

> see compulsive exercisers and people with eating disorders in

> starvation mode all the time. You hardly ever see somebody who

still

> has a lot of fat to lose in starvation mode. Humans can and do

starve.

> If you cut off somebody's food supply, it's not like they're going

to

> maintain or gain weight because they're in starvation mode. Reading

> the BFL boards you would tend to think that though.

>

April 20, 2006

i'm gonna give this a try. I haven't been counting calories

yet,although i AM used to counting points and have heard of the

wendi plan. Accordind to the biggest loser book i need 1500 cals a

day,so i'm gonna play with your method since im on a plateu.

> >

> > Remember that your average for the week, including free day if

you

> > take one, may (*may* we're still guessing) have to be in that

> > 1100-1400 range. So if you eat 1400 a day and take a 2000 cal

free

> > day, that would put you at like a 1485 a day average and that

might

> > not be enough to change anything.

> >

> > I agree with , don't do anything too sudden and radical to

> your

> > calories. Drop them a little and see what happens, then drop

them a

> > little more if necessary. That leaves you wiggle room. If you

went

> > from your current calorie level straight to 1100 a day, you

> wouldn't

> > have anywhere else to go.

> >

> > Remember, you can still have some higher days if you're zig-

zagging

> > the calories, just make sure that overall your calories are

> dropping.

> > I saw Hussman's warning message again today, the one on the BMR

> > calculator that says if you're not losing weight, the idea that

you

> > should eat even more is wishful thinking. He says that if people

> are

> > genuinely undereating, they'll be losing something (water,

muscle,

> > hair, sanity) but if the scale is totally stalled, it's because

> > there's no calorie deficit.

> >

> > I remember that it made me very mad when I first read that. I

> waved my

> > little fists in the air and cursed that Hussman person. :-) Now,

> after

> > hanging out on the boards for six years and watching hundreds of

> > transformations, I tend to agree with him. It's far more common

for

> > people to underestimate their food intake than it is for them to

> be in

> > starvation mode. And if they are in starvation mode, they tend

to

> be,

> > well, starving. As in, underweight, sunken-eyed, listless, cold.

> You

> > see compulsive exercisers and people with eating disorders in

> > starvation mode all the time. You hardly ever see somebody who

> still

> > has a lot of fat to lose in starvation mode. Humans can and do

> starve.

> > If you cut off somebody's food supply, it's not like they're

going

> to

> > maintain or gain weight because they're in starvation mode.

Reading

> > the BFL boards you would tend to think that though.

> >

>

April 20, 2006

I'm glad you posted all that because the more i think about it,the

more i realize i should be counting calories because i may be eating

more than i realize.

> > >

> > > Remember that your average for the week, including free day if

> you

> > > take one, may (*may* we're still guessing) have to be in that

> > > 1100-1400 range. So if you eat 1400 a day and take a 2000 cal

> free

> > > day, that would put you at like a 1485 a day average and that

> might

> > > not be enough to change anything.

> > >

> > > I agree with , don't do anything too sudden and radical

to

> > your

> > > calories. Drop them a little and see what happens, then drop

> them a

> > > little more if necessary. That leaves you wiggle room. If you

> went

> > > from your current calorie level straight to 1100 a day, you

> > wouldn't

> > > have anywhere else to go.

> > >

> > > Remember, you can still have some higher days if you're zig-

> zagging

> > > the calories, just make sure that overall your calories are

> > dropping.

> > > I saw Hussman's warning message again today, the one on the BMR

> > > calculator that says if you're not losing weight, the idea

that

> you

> > > should eat even more is wishful thinking. He says that if

people

> > are

> > > genuinely undereating, they'll be losing something (water,

> muscle,

> > > hair, sanity) but if the scale is totally stalled, it's because

> > > there's no calorie deficit.

> > >

> > > I remember that it made me very mad when I first read that. I

> > waved my

> > > little fists in the air and cursed that Hussman person. :-)

Now,

> > after

> > > hanging out on the boards for six years and watching hundreds

of

> > > transformations, I tend to agree with him. It's far more

common

> for

> > > people to underestimate their food intake than it is for them

to

> > be in

> > > starvation mode. And if they are in starvation mode, they tend

> to

> > be,

> > > well, starving. As in, underweight, sunken-eyed, listless,

cold.

> > You

> > > see compulsive exercisers and people with eating disorders in

> > > starvation mode all the time. You hardly ever see somebody who

> > still

> > > has a lot of fat to lose in starvation mode. Humans can and do

> > starve.

> > > If you cut off somebody's food supply, it's not like they're

> going

> > to

> > > maintain or gain weight because they're in starvation mode.

> Reading

> > > the BFL boards you would tend to think that though.

> > >

> >

>

April 20, 2006

> Jami,

I remember your stall. Your email with the wendie method was specific

and helpful, not too long.

Thanks to every one's input; it is much appreciated.

It's reassuring to read in BFFM that I'm not crazy, and don't have to

feel terribly guilty that I wasn't perfect that's why it didn't work,

as I see many of you be not perfect and get great results. Logging my

food into fitday, I both wasn't all that bad, and also could, over the

months, watch myself make adjustments that are getting healthier and

healthier.

> I posted in week 5 or 6 that I was back on my plateau and got so

> many " raise your calorie " comments I couldn't believe it! I read

> that Hussman thing and laughed out loud. And of course BFFM says

> that too - manage your caloric deficit. (so of course I ignored the

> idea to raise my calories - I'm a healthy, well fed girl! Not

> starving at alllll!).

thanks,

- Etana

April 20, 2006

Etana,

I wanted to thank you and everyone for all of their comments. I too

was confused about the " eat more " theory when you're eating already

eating 1600-1800 cal/day to see weight loss. I'm going to try to

lower my caloric intake and see how I do in the next 4 weeks.

PS: I'm in Challenge 2 too (well, I'm not counting days anymore, I'm

just doing it).

In , Skwigg wrote:

>

> Remember that your average for the week, including free day if you

> take one, may (*may* we're still guessing) have to be in that

> 1100-1400 range. So if you eat 1400 a day and take a 2000 cal free

> day, that would put you at like a 1485 a day average and that might

> not be enough to change anything.

>

> I agree with , don't do anything too sudden and radical to

your

> calories. Drop them a little and see what happens, then drop them a

> little more if necessary. That leaves you wiggle room. If you went

> from your current calorie level straight to 1100 a day, you

wouldn't

> have anywhere else to go.

>

> Remember, you can still have some higher days if you're zig-zagging

> the calories, just make sure that overall your calories are

dropping.

> I saw Hussman's warning message again today, the one on the BMR

> calculator that says if you're not losing weight, the idea that you

> should eat even more is wishful thinking. He says that if people

are

> genuinely undereating, they'll be losing something (water, muscle,

> hair, sanity) but if the scale is totally stalled, it's because

> there's no calorie deficit.

>

> I remember that it made me very mad when I first read that. I

waved my

> little fists in the air and cursed that Hussman person. :-) Now,

after

> hanging out on the boards for six years and watching hundreds of

> transformations, I tend to agree with him. It's far more common for

> people to underestimate their food intake than it is for them to

be in

> starvation mode. And if they are in starvation mode, they tend to

be,

> well, starving. As in, underweight, sunken-eyed, listless, cold.

You

> see compulsive exercisers and people with eating disorders in

> starvation mode all the time. You hardly ever see somebody who

still

> has a lot of fat to lose in starvation mode. Humans can and do

starve.

> If you cut off somebody's food supply, it's not like they're going

to

> maintain or gain weight because they're in starvation mode. Reading

> the BFL boards you would tend to think that though.

>

> > ,

> > So you are saying that at your weight, to lose you would eat

1100-1400, (and maybe free day up to 2000?), but to maintain, you

can eat 2400 cal/day? That sounds like an appealing goal.

> > Oh, you said, " 1100-1400 cals a day and not take a free

anything... and that's with my current activity level ... " NO free

day at all????? OUCH

> > I had spent the past month increasing my calories from what I'm