Re: mycotoxins disapating or what?

[Guest guest]

You've experienced cross-contamination. We were told by our IAQ guy

and a pathologist that we should spray our home with a 50/50 mixture

of ammonia & water to kill off mycotoxins. We use a paint sprayer &

proper respirator. We wash all clothing with 2-3 cups of ammonia in

the wash. We also put a couple cups in bath water if we've been

exposed again.

Those of you that are cleaning out your vehicle a/c, what about the

seats & other surfaces already contaminated? Ammonia & water sprayed

inside the vehicle works.

SW

In , " J. Page " <apage1@...> wrote:

>

> Last month there was discussion about hepa masks NOT removing

mycotoxins.

>

> I couldnt find the follow up, but, I am interested in learning how do

> they ever dissapate?

>

> I have been out of my sick building since summer of 2004 - and they are

> JUST now fixing the leaking roof - I am worried about what is UNDER the

> fixed roof now. My husband had to be in the building recently (first

> time in months and months) to run wiring. We've rented a small

apartment

> now across the street to facilitate his showering etc, while I heal.

> That day he forgot to shower

> and I immediately got so dizzy it felt my kitchen floor was pitching -

> he realized his mistake and ran out to shower.

>

> So - my question - how do we kill what might have travelled to his apt,

> his car, his real office space or my kitchen - My hepas won't do it?

And

> can I not go to his apt now safely, even with my respirator - hepa

> carbon filters?? -

>

[Guest guest]

thanks for the ammonia tip on mycotoxin fighitng......

I Googled " ammonia mycotoxins " and found it is an effective neutralizer

for mycotoxins!

This research became critical during WWII, when people were eating

more marginal grain crops and increasing numbers were dying of

Stachybotryotoxicosis. One estimate was that 20,000 Russians died

from Stachybotryotoxicosis during WWII. A major breakthrough

occurred during this time when it was found that mixing moldy grains

with caustic chemicals such as ammonia detoxified the Stachybotrys

mycotoxins and saved thousands of human and animal lives. In fact,

most of what we know today about Stachybotrys and its mycotoxins

comes from this Russian research.

from the EPA - http://www.safety-epa.com/history_mold_air_sampling.htm

>

>

> __

>

[Guest guest]

What is the word on ionizers and mycotoxins? I have heard some people

say that they neutralize mycotoxins and others say that they simply

kill mold and end up making a situation worse..

Also, what about strong UV light? Seems like this ground has been

covered here many times before but my memory is not so good today..

(go figure) and I don't remember what the definitive answers were on

that.

My gut feeling says be very careful with all of these methodds because

if they were pursued incorrectly they might end up creating more

problems than they solved in some situations.

What are people's experiences of getting compensated for things

destroyed by mold contamination?

It seems to me that nobody ever gets compensated for it, practically...

[Guest guest]

Okay, I went looking for an article that I had remembered reading and

found this:

Culturability and Toxicity of Sick Building Syndrome-Related Fungi Over Time

A1, Curtis Carriker A1, Trevor Brasel A1, Enusha

Karunasena A1, A1, Chunfa Wu A1, Larysa Andriychuk A1,

Fogle A1, A1, Straus A1

A1 Center for Indoor Air Research, Department of Microbiology and

Immunology, Health Sciences Center Texas Tech University, Lubbock,

Texas

Abstract:

Two experiments were conducted regarding the culturability and

toxicity of fungi located on building materials over time and the

efficacy of seven laboratory techniques in recovering culturable fungi

from sample swabs. In the first experiment, eight sections of drywall

were inoculated with Stachybotrys chartarum and stored at 25±5°C and

20–60%relative humidity (RH) for up to two years. Another eight

sections of ceiling tile were stored at 100%RH for 1 year. Six

sections of ceiling tile and 15 swabs were also inoculated with

Penicillium chrysogenum andS. chartarumrespectively and stored under

the same conditions for 8 months and 3.3 years. All materials were

tested for culturability at the end of the storage period. S.

chartarum-inoculated samples were also tested for toxicity. In the

second experiment (replicated twice), S. chartarum and Chaetomium

globosum were inoculated onto 84 swabs each. Storage was up to 266

days at 25±5°C and 20–60%RH. Seven techniques were compared regarding

the recovery of culturable fungi from the swabs over different time

points. Results for Experiment 1 showed that all samples were

culturable after the storage period and that the S.

chartarum-inoculated drywall samples were toxic. In Experiment 2, all

techniques showed high rates of recovery. These data show that despite

being without a water source, these organisms can be culturable and

toxic after long periods of time under conditions similar to

human-occupied dwellings and that a number of preparation techniques

are suitable for the recovery of these fungi from inoculated swabs.

Keywords:

Chaetomium, Culturability, Penicillium, Stachybotrys, Time, Toxicity

Here is the final " discussion " paragraphs of the paper.. summarizing

the results of the testing..

" DISCUSSION

The results for the drywall and ceiling tile sections show that these

fungal species can be culturable and toxic after storage over long

periods without an external water source under conditions of

temperature and humidity similar to those of residential and

commercial dwellings. Possibly, the organisms are still growing but

are doing so on a weak medium; alternatively, they have entered into a

dormant state.(11) These findings also indicate that hidden colonies

of dry mold in a house potentially are able to enter into a vigorous

growth phase once suitable moisture levels return. Regrowth of S.

chartarum, even on surfaces that had been treated with a quaternary

disinfectant compound, has been demonstrated previously.(12)

The swabs were combined to provide an adequate amount of sample for

both assays. The result from the yeast toxicity assay showed that the

swabs were midway between the toxic and nontoxic control readings.

This was possibly due to one or more of the swabs being toxic among

the remaining nontoxic swabs. Alternatively, the swabs were toxic, but

there was not enough inoculum on the swabs to generate a strong toxic

response in the yeast toxicity assay. With regard to the drywall and

ceiling tile samples, while it is unknown when toxin production

commenced, one limited study(13) showed that measurable satratoxin H

by S. chartarum (atra) was correlated with vigorous growth of the

organism under saturated conditions. It is speculative from the

presented data, but mycotoxin longevity of toxicity may be up to and

beyond 2 years. Support for this conclusion is provided by one

studythat showed trichothecene mycotoxins kept as thin films at 25°C

were stable for 2 years(14) and that trichothecenes have been

described as stable compounds.(15) Alternatively, the fungi became

toxic during the storage period.

All seven preparation techniques were equal with regard to recovering

greater than 50 CFUs per swab, a level previously described as heavy

growth.(1) The results also show that spores of both S. chartarum and

C. globosum do remain culturable on a dry sterile swab at room

temperature conditions for up to 8 months after collection. These

conditions of storage are not always met when swabs are transported

from a sampling site. As a safeguard in this laboratory, the swabs are

moistened in 0.4 mL of PBS for 5 hours and then directly streaked onto

MEA and PDA plates.

In conclusion, the results from these experiments show that after

removal of a water source that contributed to the initial growth of

the fungi, over long periods under conditions similar to those inside

human-occupied dwellings, colonies of P. chrysogenum can be culturable

and colonies of S. chartarum can be culturable and toxic. A number of

preparation techniques are also suitable for the recovery of S.

chartarum and C. globosum from inoculated swabs. "

...............

..

[Guest guest]

I guess noone ate the grains after they were

soaked in ammonia and that was what made it so

successful!!

--- " J. Page " <apage1@...> wrote:

> major breakthrough

> occurred during this time when it was found

> that mixing moldy grains

> with caustic chemicals such as ammonia

> detoxified the Stachybotrys

> mycotoxins and saved thousands of human and

> animal lives.