Re: Mold is back and it may be because of the bleach

[Guest guest]

GREAT ARTICLE KC,

THANKS

>

> Mold is back and it may be because of the bleach

>

> By Brad Haynes

> Eagle-Tribune

>

> http://www.eagletribune.com/local/local_story_197064703?page=1

>

>

> Although flood waters receded two months ago, there is a lingering

> menace still causing damage and claiming basements throughout the

> Merrimack Valley.

> Mold is blooming with the help of the hot, humid and wet weather

> over the past three weeks. But the real culprit may be the most

> widely prescribed mold antidote - bleach.

>

> " Bleach doesn't kill mold, " said Chirichiello, a mold

> inspector with Peer Living Systems in North Andover, certified by

> the National Organization of Remediators and Mold Inspectors

> (NORMI). " That just bleaches it. "

>

> More precisely, bleach will kill the living organism on contact,

but

> won't destroy the spores - essentially, seeds - underneath. That is

> why, despite the cleanup, mold has suddenly reappeared with the

> spore-friendly weather.

>

> " You're killing what's alive, but the roots and the carcass tend to

> stay there, " explained Jeff Coco, North Andover director of

> emergency management, who has recently received a half-dozen new

> mold complaints from flood-damaged homes. " It's like mowing your

> lawn down to bare earth - the vegetation is gone, but the roots

> remain. And with the right conditions it will spring up again. "

>

> Governmental agencies such as the Environmental Protection Agency,

> the Federal Emergency Management Agency and even local boards of

> health say the standard recipe for killing mold is two teaspoons of

> bleach and some water.

>

> But some experts say fungicide and microbe-killing enzymes may be

> the only way to eliminate mold once it's taken root.

>

> " That's one big thing that came out post-Katrina, " Coco noted of

the

> Hurricane Katrina recovery crews that have confronted a moldy New

> Orleans. " The nonpathogenic enzyme is a lot more effective than

> bleach alone. "

>

> Doug Hoffman, executive director of the Louisiana-based NORMI,

> founded the certifying organization two years ago and has been

> preaching the not-just-bleach gospel straight through the hurricane

> relief efforts.

>

> " Down here I really feel like a wolf crying out in the wilderness, "

> said the mold expert. " FEMA is still handing out bleach by the

> gallon. "

>

> NORMI has certified more than 1,400 mold inspectors and remediators

> in 42 states, though, who insist on using antimicrobial enzymes and

> biocides in exterminating mold.

>

> Texas and Louisiana are the only two states with a state-mandated

> certification process, but Hoffman has noticed that well-trained

> experts are in demand across the country.

>

> " It's a hot issue, " he said, " In Texas they say, 'Mold is gold.' "

>

> EPA representative Eugene Benoit, however, points out bleach is the

> same commercial element in certain expensive treatments.

>

> " That's where they can make a lot of money, so buyer beware, " he

> said. " They're going to try and sell you everything they can. "

>

> Hoffman responded that his organization makes recommendations, not

> sales. " NORMI is a nonprofit. They don't sell products, " he said.

>

> And the suggested products, Hoffman went on to emphasize, can be

> less expensive than bleach and far " greener " - often water based,

> nontoxic, and biodegradable.

>

>

> Best solution: Keep dry

>

> What all experts agreed on was the fundamental solution to a mold

> problem: keeping the environment dry once it's gone.

>

> " Most people with a mold problem have a humidity and moisture

> problem, " Hoffman said, " so the conditions are right for it to come

> back. "

>

> " We say resolve the moisture problem and clean it up, " said Benoit,

> who said a dehumidifier can pull as much as five gallons out of the

> air every day. " We don't take the next step and say you have to

> apply fungicide. "

>

> Whatever the expense, Chirichiello said, cleaning your home is best

> done right the first time.

>

> " A lot of companies come in and renovate without sanitizing, " she

> said. " Just because you call them and they did their job doesn't

> mean you're done. "

>

> Steve Mazur, owner of Ocean Carpet Care in Middleton, agreed

saying,

> if you don't, " the best thing to do is rip (your basement) out and

> start all over. "

>

> Mazur recalled one North Andover family in particular who turned

> down his cleaning suggestions in the days after the flood.

>

> " They chose not to do it and called back after six weeks to say

they

> think there's mold, " Mazur said. " I told them it's too late. I

think

> they're still not addressing the problem. "

>

> Mazur has worked on a number of mold-infested basements in the

> Merrimack Valley since the May flooding.

>

> " We're getting a couple dozen calls a week, " said Dan Noyes, owner

> of a ServiceMaster franchise based in Stoneham. That's up from one

> or two weekly mold calls in an average year, he noted. " With the

> heat, the excessive moisture, and the real humidity, the secondary

> damages are a big thing. "

>

> Homeowners not covered by flood insurance have also tried to do

> their own cleanup, Noyes pointed out, but left dormant molds to

grow

> back when their guards are down. " It's like running a marathon for

> 13 miles and saying forget it. "

>

> FEMA spokesman Hvinden, at his temporary office in Lawrence,

> said any concerns are worth a call to federal inspectors, but he

> confirmed that damages must be linked directly to the original

> disaster event. He mentioned that enough complaints from the

ongoing

> rains may convince officials to extend the official declaration of

> emergency.

>

>

>

>

>

> BOX: Bleach Won't Cure Your Mold

>

> Bleach kills living mold but not the seed-like spores. Bleach was

as

> effective as water at long-term mold extermination in a 2004 study

> at Oregon State University.

>

>

> What Will?

>

> * Remove any mold-infected materials.

>

> * Dry out the environment with dehumidifiers, fans and open windows.

>

> * Microbe-killing enzymes and biocides can be more effective,

> economical, and environmentally friendly than bleach.

>

[Guest guest]

Marketing spin continues to amaze me. And this is another example of

why vocabulary and terms are SO important to avoid unnecessary

actions, costs and potential harm.

(Also, see my challenge at the end for you to have a chance to make a

difference).

First, some of the true statements:

1. Bleach doesn't work well at all.

2. Many antimicrobials are more effective at killing mold than bleach

is.

3. The roots and carcass (sic) are still there.

4. With the right conditions it will spring up again.

5. Texas and Louisiana are the only two state with a state-mandated

certification process.

6. EPA representative Eugen Benoit is quoted and in part says " They

are going to try and sell you everything they can. "

7. Best solution: Keep dry.

8. EPA again, says " resolve the moisture problem and clean it up. "

.... " We don't take the next step and say tyou have to apply

fungicide. "

9. And it is true that the NORMI organization recommends killing mold

so it won't return.

The falseness isn't so much what is said but what isn't said, how it

is said and the implications:

A. The first three statements above plus number 9, while true, are

fundamentally irrelevant, for several reasons.

-Killing mold will keep THAT mold from growing back but it won't

prevent a regrowth of other mold if the location stays damp or gets

damp again.

Other mold? Mold is always in the air and if dampness continues then

any spores that land there will grow. It is a new crop.

For proof that these chemical manufactures understand this just read

their warranties. They say the warranty is void if it gets wet again!

-Also, roots won't regrow like the lawn weeds they cite in their

example.

-And what is mold " carcass? " It makes it sound like mold is an animal

like some creature from the black lagoon. Mold fragments, on the

other hand, are a real problem, more so than the spores when it comes

to cross-contamination.

B. The Texas legislation is a scientific and practical catastrophe.

They ignored all the expert advise, whether controversial or not, and

mandated " levels " of mold based on politics. But I will give them

credit for making it illegal for remediators to do the assessments

and the post-remediation verification. You can do only one or the

other on a specific job.

C. Bald-faced hutzpah to declare one cheap anti-microbial (bleach)

ineffective for the pupose of touting their own. And, yes, while it

may be true that they don't sell anti-microbials, they do specify one

particular kind - enzymes - which are another whole story of

controversy.

D. They also have a Certified Biocide Applicator. The course looks

pretty good and comprehensive, but they interweave the need for

biocides (anti-microbials) for infectious agents such as bacteria and

viruses with mold - even I got confused reading their site on this

topic.

E. Their members are certified -- by themselves. No independent or

third party involved to monitor content or process. There is no

industry consensus or open review like the IICRC has for S500 and

S520, to prevent self-interest at the expense of others or of

science.

I could go on with several others but I hope I've made my point.

Now, please don't interpret my response as evidence that nothing can

be done. Something CAN be done! And the principles are simple. (It is

the effective execution that requires training, skill and

experience).

-Remove the mold growth rather than just killing it.

-Remove mold growth, spores and fragments as close to the source as

possible.

-Prevent spreading it around (cross-contamination) by appropriate

containment and airflow controls.

-Stop the water or moisture source so mold growth won't return.

-Protect the workers.

The principles can be found in various forms at EPA

www.epa.gov/iaq/molds in both their free Web course and their

publications. Also, the IICRC standards of S500 for water damage - it

is now ANSI accredited - and the S520 for mold remediation - which is

just now released for peer review and public comment.

***Challange: Want to do something positive that can make a

difference? Go to www.iicrc.org to register to comment on S520. I got

three people to comment on the 2003 edition. For the 2007 edition the

ANSI process requires additional diversity of opinions and the

general public is one of the categories that can be included. The

document is long and much of it is technical (oriented to

professionals) but here is a chance for YOU TO BE HEARD. IICRC and

ANSI requires each comment to be read and reviewed with a response

back to the person.

If you want to comment but have trouble finding the registration page

at www.iicrc.org e-mail me privately.

Carl Grimes

Healthy Habitats LLC

-----

> Mold is back and it may be because of the bleach

>

> By Brad Haynes

> Eagle-Tribune

>

> http://www.eagletribune.com/local/local_story_197064703?page=1

>

>

> Although flood waters receded two months ago, there is a lingering

> menace still causing damage and claiming basements throughout the

> Merrimack Valley. Mold is blooming with the help of the hot, humid and

> wet weather over the past three weeks. But the real culprit may be the

> most widely prescribed mold antidote - bleach.

>

> " Bleach doesn't kill mold, " said Chirichiello, a mold

> inspector with Peer Living Systems in North Andover, certified by the

> National Organization of Remediators and Mold Inspectors (NORMI).

> " That just bleaches it. "

>

> More precisely, bleach will kill the living organism on contact, but

> won't destroy the spores - essentially, seeds - underneath. That is

> why, despite the cleanup, mold has suddenly reappeared with the

> spore-friendly weather.

>

> " You're killing what's alive, but the roots and the carcass tend to

> stay there, " explained Jeff Coco, North Andover director of emergency

> management, who has recently received a half-dozen new mold complaints

> from flood-damaged homes. " It's like mowing your lawn down to bare

> earth - the vegetation is gone, but the roots remain. And with the

> right conditions it will spring up again. "

>

> Governmental agencies such as the Environmental Protection Agency, the

> Federal Emergency Management Agency and even local boards of health

> say the standard recipe for killing mold is two teaspoons of bleach

> and some water.

>

> But some experts say fungicide and microbe-killing enzymes may be the

> only way to eliminate mold once it's taken root.

>

> " That's one big thing that came out post-Katrina, " Coco noted of the

> Hurricane Katrina recovery crews that have confronted a moldy New

> Orleans. " The nonpathogenic enzyme is a lot more effective than bleach

> alone. "

>

> Doug Hoffman, executive director of the Louisiana-based NORMI,

> founded the certifying organization two years ago and has been

> preaching the not-just-bleach gospel straight through the hurricane

> relief efforts.

>

> " Down here I really feel like a wolf crying out in the wilderness, "

> said the mold expert. " FEMA is still handing out bleach by the

> gallon. "

>

> NORMI has certified more than 1,400 mold inspectors and remediators in

> 42 states, though, who insist on using antimicrobial enzymes and

> biocides in exterminating mold.

>

> Texas and Louisiana are the only two states with a state-mandated

> certification process, but Hoffman has noticed that well-trained

> experts are in demand across the country.

>

> " It's a hot issue, " he said, " In Texas they say, 'Mold is gold.' "

>

> EPA representative Eugene Benoit, however, points out bleach is the

> same commercial element in certain expensive treatments.

>

> " That's where they can make a lot of money, so buyer beware, " he said.

> " They're going to try and sell you everything they can. "

>

> Hoffman responded that his organization makes recommendations, not

> sales. " NORMI is a nonprofit. They don't sell products, " he said.

>

> And the suggested products, Hoffman went on to emphasize, can be less

> expensive than bleach and far " greener " - often water based, nontoxic,

> and biodegradable.

>

>

> Best solution: Keep dry

>

> What all experts agreed on was the fundamental solution to a mold

> problem: keeping the environment dry once it's gone.

>

> " Most people with a mold problem have a humidity and moisture

> problem, " Hoffman said, " so the conditions are right for it to come

> back. "

>

> " We say resolve the moisture problem and clean it up, " said Benoit,

> who said a dehumidifier can pull as much as five gallons out of the

> air every day. " We don't take the next step and say you have to apply

> fungicide. "

>

> Whatever the expense, Chirichiello said, cleaning your home is best

> done right the first time.

>

> " A lot of companies come in and renovate without sanitizing, " she

> said. " Just because you call them and they did their job doesn't mean

> you're done. "

>

> Steve Mazur, owner of Ocean Carpet Care in Middleton, agreed saying,

> if you don't, " the best thing to do is rip (your basement) out and

> start all over. "

>

> Mazur recalled one North Andover family in particular who turned down

> his cleaning suggestions in the days after the flood.

>

> " They chose not to do it and called back after six weeks to say they

> think there's mold, " Mazur said. " I told them it's too late. I think

> they're still not addressing the problem. "

>

> Mazur has worked on a number of mold-infested basements in the

> Merrimack Valley since the May flooding.

>

> " We're getting a couple dozen calls a week, " said Dan Noyes, owner of

> a ServiceMaster franchise based in Stoneham. That's up from one or two

> weekly mold calls in an average year, he noted. " With the heat, the

> excessive moisture, and the real humidity, the secondary damages are a

> big thing. "

>

> Homeowners not covered by flood insurance have also tried to do

> their own cleanup, Noyes pointed out, but left dormant molds to grow

> back when their guards are down. " It's like running a marathon for 13

> miles and saying forget it. "

>

> FEMA spokesman Hvinden, at his temporary office in Lawrence,

> said any concerns are worth a call to federal inspectors, but he

> confirmed that damages must be linked directly to the original

> disaster event. He mentioned that enough complaints from the ongoing

> rains may convince officials to extend the official declaration of

> emergency.

>

>

>

>

>

> BOX: Bleach Won't Cure Your Mold

>

> Bleach kills living mold but not the seed-like spores. Bleach was as

> effective as water at long-term mold extermination in a 2004 study at

> Oregon State University.

>

>

> What Will?

>

> * Remove any mold-infected materials.

>

> * Dry out the environment with dehumidifiers, fans and open windows.

>

> * Microbe-killing enzymes and biocides can be more effective,

> economical, and environmentally friendly than bleach.

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

I agree Bleach only hide mold it always come back.

Elvira

[] Mold is back and it may be because of the bleach

Mold is back and it may be because of the bleach

By Brad Haynes

Eagle-Tribune

http://www.eagletribune.com/local/local_story_197064703?page=1

Although flood waters receded two months ago, there is a lingering

menace still causing damage and claiming basements throughout the

Merrimack Valley.

Mold is blooming with the help of the hot, humid and wet weather

over the past three weeks. But the real culprit may be the most

widely prescribed mold antidote - bleach.

" Bleach doesn't kill mold, " said Chirichiello, a mold

inspector with Peer Living Systems in North Andover, certified by

the National Organization of Remediators and Mold Inspectors

(NORMI). " That just bleaches it. "

More precisely, bleach will kill the living organism on contact, but

won't destroy the spores - essentially, seeds - underneath. That is

why, despite the cleanup, mold has suddenly reappeared with the

spore-friendly weather.

" You're killing what's alive, but the roots and the carcass tend to

stay there, " explained Jeff Coco, North Andover director of

emergency management, who has recently received a half-dozen new

mold complaints from flood-damaged homes. " It's like mowing your

lawn down to bare earth - the vegetation is gone, but the roots

remain. And with the right conditions it will spring up again. "

Governmental agencies such as the Environmental Protection Agency,

the Federal Emergency Management Agency and even local boards of

health say the standard recipe for killing mold is two teaspoons of

bleach and some water.

But some experts say fungicide and microbe-killing enzymes may be

the only way to eliminate mold once it's taken root.

" That's one big thing that came out post-Katrina, " Coco noted of the

Hurricane Katrina recovery crews that have confronted a moldy New

Orleans. " The nonpathogenic enzyme is a lot more effective than

bleach alone. "

Doug Hoffman, executive director of the Louisiana-based NORMI,

founded the certifying organization two years ago and has been

preaching the not-just-bleach gospel straight through the hurricane

relief efforts.

" Down here I really feel like a wolf crying out in the wilderness, "

said the mold expert. " FEMA is still handing out bleach by the

gallon. "

NORMI has certified more than 1,400 mold inspectors and remediators

in 42 states, though, who insist on using antimicrobial enzymes and

biocides in exterminating mold.

Texas and Louisiana are the only two states with a state-mandated

certification process, but Hoffman has noticed that well-trained

experts are in demand across the country.

" It's a hot issue, " he said, " In Texas they say, 'Mold is gold.' "

EPA representative Eugene Benoit, however, points out bleach is the

same commercial element in certain expensive treatments.

" That's where they can make a lot of money, so buyer beware, " he

said. " They're going to try and sell you everything they can. "

Hoffman responded that his organization makes recommendations, not

sales. " NORMI is a nonprofit. They don't sell products, " he said.

And the suggested products, Hoffman went on to emphasize, can be

less expensive than bleach and far " greener " - often water based,

nontoxic, and biodegradable.

Best solution: Keep dry

What all experts agreed on was the fundamental solution to a mold

problem: keeping the environment dry once it's gone.

" Most people with a mold problem have a humidity and moisture

problem, " Hoffman said, " so the conditions are right for it to come

back. "

" We say resolve the moisture problem and clean it up, " said Benoit,

who said a dehumidifier can pull as much as five gallons out of the

air every day. " We don't take the next step and say you have to

apply fungicide. "

Whatever the expense, Chirichiello said, cleaning your home is best

done right the first time.

" A lot of companies come in and renovate without sanitizing, " she

said. " Just because you call them and they did their job doesn't

mean you're done. "

Steve Mazur, owner of Ocean Carpet Care in Middleton, agreed saying,

if you don't, " the best thing to do is rip (your basement) out and

start all over. "

Mazur recalled one North Andover family in particular who turned

down his cleaning suggestions in the days after the flood.

" They chose not to do it and called back after six weeks to say they

think there's mold, " Mazur said. " I told them it's too late. I think

they're still not addressing the problem. "

Mazur has worked on a number of mold-infested basements in the

Merrimack Valley since the May flooding.

" We're getting a couple dozen calls a week, " said Dan Noyes, owner

of a ServiceMaster franchise based in Stoneham. That's up from one

or two weekly mold calls in an average year, he noted. " With the

heat, the excessive moisture, and the real humidity, the secondary

damages are a big thing. "

Homeowners not covered by flood insurance have also tried to do

their own cleanup, Noyes pointed out, but left dormant molds to grow

back when their guards are down. " It's like running a marathon for

13 miles and saying forget it. "

FEMA spokesman Hvinden, at his temporary office in Lawrence,

said any concerns are worth a call to federal inspectors, but he

confirmed that damages must be linked directly to the original

disaster event. He mentioned that enough complaints from the ongoing

rains may convince officials to extend the official declaration of

emergency.

BOX: Bleach Won't Cure Your Mold

Bleach kills living mold but not the seed-like spores. Bleach was as

effective as water at long-term mold extermination in a 2004 study

at Oregon State University.

What Will?

* Remove any mold-infected materials.

* Dry out the environment with dehumidifiers, fans and open windows.

* Microbe-killing enzymes and biocides can be more effective,

economical, and environmentally friendly than bleach.