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Natasa,

Do you have any hunches how this calcium problem evolves? We have a

seizure prone young adult here who has been placed on a calcium

channel blocker. Once we got the milk free version of the med, it

seems to be helping with seizure control. Prior to taking it, she

would have approx 24 hour response to dietary infractions; sometimes

with a dozen + seizures. With the med, we've still seen seizure

activity but very short ones and in a much shorter time frame.

This week she had some muscle testing done. It showed lead cropping

up as a problem - as did her RBC test earlier in the fall -finally

beginning to eliminate as I interpreted it. However, the

practitioner who muscle tested her placed her difficulty with the

lead elimination in the parotid gland - a startling 'coincidence' to

me considering the calcium disregulation that seems to be going on

with her. He knew nothing of the labs or new seizure meds role.

Do you think the parotid takes a hit like the thyroid with heavy

metal overload? or do you think that this is related to electrical

activity of the minerals? Is there some enzyme function being

blocked which interfers with the elimination of the bone stored

lead? i.e. don't lead and calcium traffic in/out of bone? Are there

any supps that might enhance parotid function? or enhance bone

calcium storage vs lead? Kindergarten level questions, I know, as I

don't have the depth for this.

> >

> > Hi,

> >

> > I have a friend whose son is 14 and just started biomed. He has

had

> his

> > testosterone levels taken and they are sky high. Has anyone

come

> across

> > this before?

> >

> > Thanks

> >

> > Elaine

> >

>

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Hi ,

what type of ca blockers is she taking?

what are the foods she reacts to?

sorry, I do not believe I have any useful answers here, just digging for

more possible clues.

I do not know much about parathyroid, from what can recollect it

supposedly 'reads' the calcium dynamics in the body (including, but not

exclusive to the bones?) and reacts by shuffling it around... sort of

thing :( from what little I read about it it looked like this gland

would be affected downstream of other things going on. Don't know if it

can be affected by toxins in a more direct way, or how/if its

functioning could affect detox.

few more questions:

have you tried chelating lead, recently or in the past? how did it go?

lastly, how has she been doing lately in terms of behaviours etc? do you

think seizure control has any impact on her general autistic symptoms?

Best,

Natasa

> > >

> > > Hi,

> > >

> > > I have a friend whose son is 14 and just started biomed. He has

> had

> > his

> > > testosterone levels taken and they are sky high. Has anyone

> come

> > across

> > > this before?

> > >

> > > Thanks

> > >

> > > Elaine

> > >

> >

>

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Hi ,

what type of ca blockers is she taking?

what are the foods she reacts to?

sorry, I do not believe I have any useful answers here, just digging for

more possible clues.

I do not know much about parathyroid, from what can recollect it

supposedly 'reads' the calcium dynamics in the body (including, but not

exclusive to the bones?) and reacts by shuffling it around... sort of

thing :( from what little I read about it it looked like this gland

would be affected downstream of other things going on. Don't know if it

can be affected by toxins in a more direct way, or how/if its

functioning could affect detox.

few more questions:

have you tried chelating lead, recently or in the past? how did it go?

lastly, how has she been doing lately in terms of behaviours etc? do you

think seizure control has any impact on her general autistic symptoms?

Best,

Natasa

> > >

> > > Hi,

> > >

> > > I have a friend whose son is 14 and just started biomed. He has

> had

> > his

> > > testosterone levels taken and they are sky high. Has anyone

> come

> > across

> > > this before?

> > >

> > > Thanks

> > >

> > > Elaine

> > >

> >

>

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Natasa,

She's taking lamotrigine at her father's insistance. He's unwillling

to monitor diet. We found back in summer 2000 that gluten and casein

were the major triggers for her seizures. Since then I'd gradually

withdrawn her tegretol. She's continued to have some seizures due to

dietary infractions but nothing like pre 2000. She truly is seizure

free if she stays pure on her diet. Dietary control also seems to

help her detox. As she's gotten older, the monitoring has become

more of a problem. Other foods, such as soy[sometimes willl also

trigger the seizures], peanuts, cocoa, orange, grape send her into

what I call 'pre-seizure' behavior' - irritable, aggressive, totally

defiant and anxious. Recent testing put other foods off limits for

awhile -egg, cashew, codfish[probably from all the clo oil I poured

down her as a little one!], spinach, olive and grapefruit[which is

probably why I couldn't use ole or gfe without seeing VERY negative

response that didn't sound like die off], walnut, mushroom,

cauliflower, pepper, potato, yeast, sesame, bean[lima, pinto]. A

couple of these foods she's never even sniffed at in her life.

However, I like grapefruit and limas. Can't believe she was

sensitized so long ago in utero. Others are showing + but are being

rotated currently.

Seizure control with diet gives us a calm reasonable young adult.

She's verbal and anxious most of the time. The medication is

currently shifting her to a 'manic' mode with lots of repetitive

verbage and obsession on her favorite things as well as periods

plagued with aggression. Pupillary response has gotten inappropriate

again with this med. A swollen, cracked lower lip is back again[b2,

biotin? not doing much for it], as is orange peel facial skin. Both

lip and skin sx had gone away gradually on the lod this past year.

She has been chelating since early 2002 using Cutler's protocol- 1.5

year intense. I'd drawn back on this due to family conflict but got

back in gear this fall. We had a few months in 2004 of topical dmps -

a disaster using it qod or every 8 hours x 3 days. Chelation has

definitely been of benefit.

So that's the 'short' of it now.

-- In Autism Treatment , " natasa778 "

wrote:

>

> Hi ,

>

> what type of ca blockers is she taking?

>

> what are the foods she reacts to?

>

> sorry, I do not believe I have any useful answers here, just

digging for

> more possible clues.

>

> I do not know much about parathyroid, from what can recollect it

> supposedly 'reads' the calcium dynamics in the body (including,

but not

> exclusive to the bones?) and reacts by shuffling it around... sort

of

> thing :( from what little I read about it it looked like this

gland

> would be affected downstream of other things going on. Don't know

if it

> can be affected by toxins in a more direct way, or how/if its

> functioning could affect detox.

>

> few more questions:

>

> have you tried chelating lead, recently or in the past? how did it

go?

>

> lastly, how has she been doing lately in terms of behaviours etc?

do you

> think seizure control has any impact on her general autistic

symptoms?

>

> Best,

> Natasa

>

>

>

>

> > > >

> > > > Hi,

> > > >

> > > > I have a friend whose son is 14 and just started biomed. He

has

> > had

> > > his

> > > > testosterone levels taken and they are sky high. Has anyone

> > come

> > > across

> > > > this before?

> > > >

> > > > Thanks

> > > >

> > > > Elaine

> > > >

> > >

> >

>

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> Natasa,

>

> She has been chelating since early 2002 using Cutler's protocol- 1.5

> year intense. I'd drawn back on this due to family conflict but got

> back in gear this fall. We had a few months in 2004 of topical dmps -

> a disaster using it qod or every 8 hours x 3 days. Chelation has

> definitely been of benefit.

> So that's the 'short' of it now.

Could you elaborate,

what was the disaster...

Not the Andy Cutler protocol,

but the transdermal / topiacel DMPS (Buttar ?-) protocol ??

Geir Flatabø

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Sorry about the confusion. Cutler's protocol has been the MOST

beneficial. Some improvements - stone cold, mottled extremities

[hands/lower arms, feet and lower legs return to normal

color/temperature; peripheral neuropathy is gone; pupil response had

begun to approximate normal[until she began this new seizure med];

tolerance for visually busy and noisy places is about normal; pain

tolerance has gone from super high[nothing hurt] to what seems like

much closer to normal; a return of much more normal emotional state-

actual tears and empathy...

We also saw great response in our litle grandson on the Cutler

protocol. When he was 2, he had a significant lead problem with

blood levels into almost 50's[?units of meaasure] while mainstream

only wanted to monitor! He also counted out toxic for mercury by

Cutler's criteria. Several months of chelation, supplements, and

speech therapy improved him dramatically. He's in first grade now

[bright, funny, very social etc] totally mainstreamed and no one the

wiser. However, strep remains a problem for him intermittently. He

will get very obsessive/compulsive-no temp, no wbc change, usually

negative on rapid test and positive on full culture; but no real

signs of illness exc the ocd. His doc treats this agressively. His

younger brother, now 4, has had no vaccines and has been such a

healthy kid.

The 'disaster' for this daughter[21yrs and the grandson's aunt] was

td-dmps. We tried every other day for a couple of months; also every

8 hours x 3 days/4 days off. We were never able to work up anywhere

near the recommended number of drops per day. She had horrible

behavior during this time. I felt as if there was constant

redistribution going on so we quit.

Hope that clarifies things.

> > Natasa,

> >

> > She has been chelating since early 2002 using Cutler's protocol-

1.5

> > year intense. I'd drawn back on this due to family conflict but

got

> > back in gear this fall. We had a few months in 2004 of topical

dmps -

> > a disaster using it qod or every 8 hours x 3 days. Chelation has

> > definitely been of benefit.

> > So that's the 'short' of it now.

>

> Could you elaborate,

> what was the disaster...

> Not the Andy Cutler protocol,

> but the transdermal / topiacel DMPS (Buttar ?-) protocol ??

>

> Geir Flatabø

>

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In a message dated 03/12/2006 08:53:19 GMT Standard Time, geirf@... writes:

Others seen this problem withButtar - TD DMPS ??

>>>>>Loads and loads, I used to keep a file about it. Only heard of a few with issues with frequent dosing and my theory on that is the way you switch from 48 hourly to 8 hourly. Some folks have seen great things, some put their childs recovery down to the TD DMPS but as a subscriber to 27 I think I have quite a good overview. FWIW

Mandi x

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In a message dated 03/12/2006 08:53:19 GMT Standard Time, geirf@... writes:

Others seen this problem withButtar - TD DMPS ??

>>>>>Loads and loads, I used to keep a file about it. Only heard of a few with issues with frequent dosing and my theory on that is the way you switch from 48 hourly to 8 hourly. Some folks have seen great things, some put their childs recovery down to the TD DMPS but as a subscriber to 27 I think I have quite a good overview. FWIW

Mandi x

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Others seen this problem with

Buttar - TD DMPS ??

Geir Flatabø

On 12/3/06, mbrookh <mbrookh@...> wrote:

> Sorry about the confusion. Cutler's protocol has been the MOST

> beneficial. Some improvements - stone cold, mottled extremities

> [hands/lower arms, feet and lower legs return to normal

> color/temperature; peripheral neuropathy is gone; pupil response had

> begun to approximate normal[until she began this new seizure med];

> tolerance for visually busy and noisy places is about normal; pain

> tolerance has gone from super high[nothing hurt] to what seems like

> much closer to normal; a return of much more normal emotional state-

> actual tears and empathy...

> We also saw great response in our litle grandson on the Cutler

> protocol. When he was 2, he had a significant lead problem with

> blood levels into almost 50's[?units of meaasure] while mainstream

> only wanted to monitor! He also counted out toxic for mercury by

> Cutler's criteria. Several months of chelation, supplements, and

> speech therapy improved him dramatically. He's in first grade now

> [bright, funny, very social etc] totally mainstreamed and no one the

> wiser. However, strep remains a problem for him intermittently. He

> will get very obsessive/compulsive-no temp, no wbc change, usually

> negative on rapid test and positive on full culture; but no real

> signs of illness exc the ocd. His doc treats this agressively. His

> younger brother, now 4, has had no vaccines and has been such a

> healthy kid.

> The 'disaster' for this daughter[21yrs and the grandson's aunt] was

> td-dmps. We tried every other day for a couple of months; also every

> 8 hours x 3 days/4 days off. We were never able to work up anywhere

> near the recommended number of drops per day. She had horrible

> behavior during this time. I felt as if there was constant

> redistribution going on so we quit.

> Hope that clarifies things.

>

>

>

>

> > > Natasa,

> > >

> > > She has been chelating since early 2002 using Cutler's protocol-

> 1.5

> > > year intense. I'd drawn back on this due to family conflict but

> got

> > > back in gear this fall. We had a few months in 2004 of topical

> dmps -

> > > a disaster using it qod or every 8 hours x 3 days. Chelation has

> > > definitely been of benefit.

> > > So that's the 'short' of it now.

> >

> > Could you elaborate,

> > what was the disaster...

> > Not the Andy Cutler protocol,

> > but the transdermal / topiacel DMPS (Buttar ?-) protocol ??

> >

> > Geir Flatabø

> >

>

>

>

>

> DISCLAIMER

> No information contained in this post is to be construed as medical advice. If

you need medical advice, please seek it from a suitably qualified practitioner.

>

>

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Others seen this problem with

Buttar - TD DMPS ??

Geir Flatabø

On 12/3/06, mbrookh <mbrookh@...> wrote:

> Sorry about the confusion. Cutler's protocol has been the MOST

> beneficial. Some improvements - stone cold, mottled extremities

> [hands/lower arms, feet and lower legs return to normal

> color/temperature; peripheral neuropathy is gone; pupil response had

> begun to approximate normal[until she began this new seizure med];

> tolerance for visually busy and noisy places is about normal; pain

> tolerance has gone from super high[nothing hurt] to what seems like

> much closer to normal; a return of much more normal emotional state-

> actual tears and empathy...

> We also saw great response in our litle grandson on the Cutler

> protocol. When he was 2, he had a significant lead problem with

> blood levels into almost 50's[?units of meaasure] while mainstream

> only wanted to monitor! He also counted out toxic for mercury by

> Cutler's criteria. Several months of chelation, supplements, and

> speech therapy improved him dramatically. He's in first grade now

> [bright, funny, very social etc] totally mainstreamed and no one the

> wiser. However, strep remains a problem for him intermittently. He

> will get very obsessive/compulsive-no temp, no wbc change, usually

> negative on rapid test and positive on full culture; but no real

> signs of illness exc the ocd. His doc treats this agressively. His

> younger brother, now 4, has had no vaccines and has been such a

> healthy kid.

> The 'disaster' for this daughter[21yrs and the grandson's aunt] was

> td-dmps. We tried every other day for a couple of months; also every

> 8 hours x 3 days/4 days off. We were never able to work up anywhere

> near the recommended number of drops per day. She had horrible

> behavior during this time. I felt as if there was constant

> redistribution going on so we quit.

> Hope that clarifies things.

>

>

>

>

> > > Natasa,

> > >

> > > She has been chelating since early 2002 using Cutler's protocol-

> 1.5

> > > year intense. I'd drawn back on this due to family conflict but

> got

> > > back in gear this fall. We had a few months in 2004 of topical

> dmps -

> > > a disaster using it qod or every 8 hours x 3 days. Chelation has

> > > definitely been of benefit.

> > > So that's the 'short' of it now.

> >

> > Could you elaborate,

> > what was the disaster...

> > Not the Andy Cutler protocol,

> > but the transdermal / topiacel DMPS (Buttar ?-) protocol ??

> >

> > Geir Flatabø

> >

>

>

>

>

> DISCLAIMER

> No information contained in this post is to be construed as medical advice. If

you need medical advice, please seek it from a suitably qualified practitioner.

>

>

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>

> Others seen this problem with

> Buttar - TD DMPS ??

>

> Geir Flatabø

I should be interested to know this too. Has everyone largely abandoned

the Buttar protocol now?

Margaret

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>

> Others seen this problem with

> Buttar - TD DMPS ??

>

> Geir Flatabø

I should be interested to know this too. Has everyone largely abandoned

the Buttar protocol now?

Margaret

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On 12/3/06, Mum231ASD@... <Mum231ASD@...> wrote:

In a message dated 03/12/2006 08:53:19 GMT Standard Time, geirf@... writes:

Others seen this problem withButtar - TD DMPS ??

>>>>>Loads and loads, I used to keep a file about it. Only heard of a few with issues with frequent dosing and my theory on that is the way you switch from 48 hourly to 8 hourly. Some folks have seen great things, some put their childs recovery down to the TD DMPS but as a subscriber to 27 I think I have quite a good overview. FWIW

Mandi xYou say it is OK to dose each 48 hours, but not 8 hours dosing ??According to Buttar himselfit is a continous supply of DMPS that makes the best effect.

In the Bella (iv ) protocol DMPS is always dosed together with lots of antioxydants ( Vitamin C and GSH) would that do the difference ??Geir Flatabø

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On 12/3/06, Mum231ASD@... <Mum231ASD@...> wrote:

In a message dated 03/12/2006 08:53:19 GMT Standard Time, geirf@... writes:

Others seen this problem withButtar - TD DMPS ??

>>>>>Loads and loads, I used to keep a file about it. Only heard of a few with issues with frequent dosing and my theory on that is the way you switch from 48 hourly to 8 hourly. Some folks have seen great things, some put their childs recovery down to the TD DMPS but as a subscriber to 27 I think I have quite a good overview. FWIW

Mandi xYou say it is OK to dose each 48 hours, but not 8 hours dosing ??According to Buttar himselfit is a continous supply of DMPS that makes the best effect.

In the Bella (iv ) protocol DMPS is always dosed together with lots of antioxydants ( Vitamin C and GSH) would that do the difference ??Geir Flatabø

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, how long has she been on lamotrigene? is she on full adult dose or

have you tried different dosing?

was she taking it while chelating?

Natasa

> > > > >

> > > > > Hi,

> > > > >

> > > > > I have a friend whose son is 14 and just started biomed. He

> has

> > > had

> > > > his

> > > > > testosterone levels taken and they are sky high. Has anyone

> > > come

> > > > across

> > > > > this before?

> > > > >

> > > > > Thanks

> > > > >

> > > > > Elaine

> > > > >

> > > >

> > >

> >

>

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, how long has she been on lamotrigene? is she on full adult dose or

have you tried different dosing?

was she taking it while chelating?

Natasa

> > > > >

> > > > > Hi,

> > > > >

> > > > > I have a friend whose son is 14 and just started biomed. He

> has

> > > had

> > > > his

> > > > > testosterone levels taken and they are sky high. Has anyone

> > > come

> > > > across

> > > > > this before?

> > > > >

> > > > > Thanks

> > > > >

> > > > > Elaine

> > > > >

> > > >

> > >

> >

>

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Natasa,

The lamotrigene is new ~ 6 weeks~. Initially, she was on tablets that

had lactose. We saw a mini return of what she'd experienced on

gluten/casein - ataxia, pupil irregularity, high pain level, very

irritable/oppositional behavior[esp close to next dosing time-like an

adict needing a 'fix'] It was heart breaking for me. The last couple

of weeks with the non lactose form, the ataxia has subsided, pupils

are more normal but the behavior pattern remains very 'pre-seizure;

cracked lip adn mottled skin remain. The doc is a 'good old boys

club' one who will not even discuss things with me - only says that

the behavior indices the need for increased dose! This is somewhat

out of my hands until formal intervention. She has been worked up to

a full adult dose[120# young adult]. Yes, she's taking it as I've

begun to chelate agian.

-- In Autism Treatment , " natasa778 "

<neno@...> wrote:

>

> , how long has she been on lamotrigene? is she on full adult

dose or

> have you tried different dosing?

> was she taking it while chelating?

>

> Natasa

>

>

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Hi,

> > > > > >

> > > > > > I have a friend whose son is 14 and just started biomed.

He

> > has

> > > > had

> > > > > his

> > > > > > testosterone levels taken and they are sky high. Has

anyone

> > > > come

> > > > > across

> > > > > > this before?

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Thanks

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Elaine

> > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > >

> > >

> >

>

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Not sure if this might be of any help to you:

Ann Pharmacother. 2002 May;36(5):860-73.

Lamotrigine update and its use in mood disorders.

Hurley SC. College of Pharmacy, Idaho State University, Pocatello, ID, USA. hurley@...

OBJECTIVE: To provide a qualitative, systematic

update and review of the pharmacology, pharmacokinetics, efficacy in

mood disorders, adverse effects, and costs of lamotrigine. DATA

SOURCES: Citations obtained from MEDLINE searches (1985-September 2001)

using lamotrigine as a text word, articles identified in reference

lists of pertinent articles, abstracts presented at conferences, and

research data from GlaxoKline. DATA EXTRACTION: English-language

articles were considered for possible inclusion. Each title and

abstract was examined to determine whether the publication contained

up-to-date information relevant to the objective. Twenty clinical

trials that provided data on response rates in mood disorders were

tabulated. DATA SYNTHESIS: Lamotrigine's primary action is to modulate

voltage-gated sodium channels. Evidence suggests that it decreases

glutamate transmission, directly reduces calcium influx, mildly blocks

transmitter reuptake, and alters intracellular mechanisms of resting

transmitter release. The average half-life of lamotrigine is

approximately 24 hours, but decreases to approximately 7.4 hours when

used concurrently with phenytoin, and increases to approximately 59

hours with valproic acid. Seven of the 20 clinical trials were

randomized, double-blind, and controlled. Existing data are inadequate

to evaluate lamotrigine use in major depression. The pooled response

rates for patients with depressed, manic, mixed, and rapid cycling

bipolar disorder were similar, ranging from 52% to 63%. Adverse

effects are infrequent when the drug is used alone, but become more

frequent when lamotrigine is combined with other anticonvulsants. While

most rashes are mild, approximately 1 in 500 patients develops

exfoliative dermatitis. A slow upward dose titration is recommended to

reduce the incidence of serious rash, but this may delay the attainment

of adequate dosage for 6 weeks. Lamotrigine has positive effects

on cognitive function, but occasionally produces insomnia. Lamotrigine

costs 2-4 times more than lithium, carbamazepine, and generic valproic

acid. CONCLUSIONS: When efficacy, adverse effects, and cost are

considered, lamotrigine should probably be reserved as a second-line

agent for bipolar depression.

Publication Types:

* Review

PMID: 11978166 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]

it sounds like this drug is having the opposite effect of what it

should be doing - could it be one of those things where 'less is more'?

just a thought, but maybe it would be worth trying much lower doses for

a while, especially while chelating (as chelating agents might be

working on the same/similar mechanisms as this drug, and producing

additive effects).

Natasa

> > > > > > >> > > > > > > Hi,> > > > > > >> > > > > > > I have a friend whose son is 14 and just started biomed. > He> > > has> > > > > had> > > > > > his> > > > > > > testosterone levels taken and they are sky high. Has > anyone> > > > > come> > > > > > across> > > > > > > this before?> > > > > > >> > > > > > > Thanks> > > > > > >> > > > > > > Elaine> > > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > >> > > >> > >> >>

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Not sure if this might be of any help to you:

Ann Pharmacother. 2002 May;36(5):860-73.

Lamotrigine update and its use in mood disorders.

Hurley SC. College of Pharmacy, Idaho State University, Pocatello, ID, USA. hurley@...

OBJECTIVE: To provide a qualitative, systematic

update and review of the pharmacology, pharmacokinetics, efficacy in

mood disorders, adverse effects, and costs of lamotrigine. DATA

SOURCES: Citations obtained from MEDLINE searches (1985-September 2001)

using lamotrigine as a text word, articles identified in reference

lists of pertinent articles, abstracts presented at conferences, and

research data from GlaxoKline. DATA EXTRACTION: English-language

articles were considered for possible inclusion. Each title and

abstract was examined to determine whether the publication contained

up-to-date information relevant to the objective. Twenty clinical

trials that provided data on response rates in mood disorders were

tabulated. DATA SYNTHESIS: Lamotrigine's primary action is to modulate

voltage-gated sodium channels. Evidence suggests that it decreases

glutamate transmission, directly reduces calcium influx, mildly blocks

transmitter reuptake, and alters intracellular mechanisms of resting

transmitter release. The average half-life of lamotrigine is

approximately 24 hours, but decreases to approximately 7.4 hours when

used concurrently with phenytoin, and increases to approximately 59

hours with valproic acid. Seven of the 20 clinical trials were

randomized, double-blind, and controlled. Existing data are inadequate

to evaluate lamotrigine use in major depression. The pooled response

rates for patients with depressed, manic, mixed, and rapid cycling

bipolar disorder were similar, ranging from 52% to 63%. Adverse

effects are infrequent when the drug is used alone, but become more

frequent when lamotrigine is combined with other anticonvulsants. While

most rashes are mild, approximately 1 in 500 patients develops

exfoliative dermatitis. A slow upward dose titration is recommended to

reduce the incidence of serious rash, but this may delay the attainment

of adequate dosage for 6 weeks. Lamotrigine has positive effects

on cognitive function, but occasionally produces insomnia. Lamotrigine

costs 2-4 times more than lithium, carbamazepine, and generic valproic

acid. CONCLUSIONS: When efficacy, adverse effects, and cost are

considered, lamotrigine should probably be reserved as a second-line

agent for bipolar depression.

Publication Types:

* Review

PMID: 11978166 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]

it sounds like this drug is having the opposite effect of what it

should be doing - could it be one of those things where 'less is more'?

just a thought, but maybe it would be worth trying much lower doses for

a while, especially while chelating (as chelating agents might be

working on the same/similar mechanisms as this drug, and producing

additive effects).

Natasa

> > > > > > >> > > > > > > Hi,> > > > > > >> > > > > > > I have a friend whose son is 14 and just started biomed. > He> > > has> > > > > had> > > > > > his> > > > > > > testosterone levels taken and they are sky high. Has > anyone> > > > > come> > > > > > across> > > > > > > this before?> > > > > > >> > > > > > > Thanks> > > > > > >> > > > > > > Elaine> > > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > >> > > >> > >> >>

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