Re: Mold Sampling: Chain of Custody Form

July 17, 2006

Barb,

I'm really not sure why you have to fill out a chain

of custody form, but I found the following at

www.policyholdersofamerica.org/mold-testing.htm

I found Paragraph #5 " very interesting. "

Possibly they want to be able to keep track of houses

that tested positive for mold/mycotoxins.

Barb E.

CHEAP MOLD TESTING THAT CAN SAVE YOU

THOUSANDS! A MUST FOR NEW HOMEBUYERS.

Are you buying a home or a money pit? This simple and

cheap test can save you thousands, perhaps hundreds of

thousands of dollars.

Many water leaks lurk behind wall cavities, behind

appliances or in ceilings and are not obvious to home

inspectors or even sellers. Before you close on a

home, be it a new or older home, do your own

investigation to ensure you are not buying a money

pit. A $40 investment could also help you knock

thousands of dollars off the offer price.

Left uncorrected, water leaks can cause structural

damage because over time, wet wood (beams, studs,

plates, floor joists, etc…) can become degraded. Wet

building materials also attract termites and cause

mold to colonize and spread. Certain aggressive molds

consume the materials on which they grow, further

exacerbating structural damage.

Texas Tech University has agreed to analyze samples

for $40 each. Texas Tech can also tell you if

mycotoxins (the tiny poisons emitted from a small

number of mold spores) are also present, and if so, to

what degree.

If toxigenic mold is present in samples, you should

send the findings to the seller and real estate agent

representing the seller, via certified mail, so the

seller and agent are put on notice and must disclose

the findings to any buyer or make proper (and often,

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mycotoxins be present in any serious quantity and you

still want to purchase the property, you should get

binding bids from remediators for proper repairs and

deduct that amount from your offer.

Follow these simple instructions to conduct your own

sampling: (click here for actual instructions from

Texas Tech Univeristy)

--- barb1283 <barb1283@...> wrote:

> I'm sending a mold sample to University of Texas

> Center for Indoor Air

> Research. They said I need to fill out, sign and

> send along a " Chain

> of Custody Form " that is on their site, along with

> sample to be

> tested. Does anyone know why a chain of custody

> form would need to be

> signed. Are they afraid I may want it back, or

> what? Just kidding of

> course. Anyway, does this mean if stachy were

> found, etc., they could

> report it to some agency or something. I just

> wondering. I know for

> Home Depot tests, I filled out name, address and

> where collected but

> they didn't have any chain of custody form. I just

> find it curious.

> Anyone know about this?

>

__________________________________________________

July 17, 2006

Barb,

In simple terms without getting into all the technicalities and

legalities, the chain of custody is a formal procedure stating in

writing who is responsible for the sample as it is handed off from

the time it is collected until the results are reported. Thus,

identifying the chain of people who have had custody and care of the

sample.

If you go to court with evidence that includes mold samples, the jury

needs to know who collected it, how it got to the lab, that the lab

got it and then reported the results on that specific sample -

WITHOUT ANY OTHER ACTIVITIES IN BETWEEN.

Example 1: I collect a sample in front of the opposing attorney but

send a different sample to the lab. The chain of custody that I sign

is my testimony that I didn't substitute samples. It is also a record

of the type of sample, when collected, etc. If I say I sent a swab

sample but the lab received a culture plate or bulk sample, they will

note that difference.

Example 2: I collect a sample as above intended for culturing

(growing) but I ship it 7 days later without being refrigerated and

via parcel post rather than FedEx and in a regular envelope rather

than in a chilled container. That makes a difference in what the lab

will see as to levels and types of mold. Was it shipped in freezing

weather, a heat wave, unprotected from sub-zero in the belly of the

plane that killed the mold so it wouldn't grow? Or under condtions

that favored a lesser mold over the dominant mold? The chain of

custody that I sign is a written record of how the samples were

handled shipped.

Without a chain of custody, the evidence would probably never be

admitted in court.

Now, suppose you have no intention of going to court. Why use a chain

of custody? It means you are agreeing to certain specifics about

collection, handling, and shipping of the sample in a manner the lab

understands. They will note any discrepancies between what the chain

of custody says and what they receive so they can be factored into

the results. Without a record of information, the results - which are

critical to you - may not be valid or reliable.

Another example of technicalities of vocabulary and terms being

critical. Also, the industry has incredible expertise for procedures

and reporting and huge professionalism that are basically invisible

to the layman to insure accurate information. But what they aren't

good at is interpreting the information in the context of people, and

even less so for including the effect on the occupant in their

understanding, their recommendations and the verifications of

remediation.

Carl Grimes

Healthy Habitats LLC

-----

> I'm sending a mold sample to University of Texas Center for Indoor Air

> Research. They said I need to fill out, sign and send along a " Chain

> of Custody Form " that is on their site, along with sample to be

> tested. Does anyone know why a chain of custody form would need to be

> signed. Are they afraid I may want it back, or what? Just kidding of

> course. Anyway, does this mean if stachy were found, etc., they could

> report it to some agency or something. I just wondering. I know for

> Home Depot tests, I filled out name, address and where collected but

> they didn't have any chain of custody form. I just find it curious.

> Anyone know about this?

>

July 17, 2006

they may want to know if your involved in a lawsuit, if so they may

request you lawyer to write a request for

testing.

>

> > I'm sending a mold sample to University of Texas

> > Center for Indoor Air

> > Research. They said I need to fill out, sign and

> > send along a " Chain

> > of Custody Form " that is on their site, along with

> > sample to be

> > tested. Does anyone know why a chain of custody

> > form would need to be

> > signed. Are they afraid I may want it back, or

> > what? Just kidding of

> > course. Anyway, does this mean if stachy were

> > found, etc., they could

> > report it to some agency or something. I just

> > wondering. I know for

> > Home Depot tests, I filled out name, address and

> > where collected but

> > they didn't have any chain of custody form. I just

> > find it curious.

> > Anyone know about this?

> >

>

> __________________________________________________

>

July 17, 2006

Barb, can you post a link to this ,please, and thank

you

> >

> > > I'm sending a mold sample to University of Texas

> > > Center for Indoor Air

> > > Research. They said I need to fill out, sign and

> > > send along a " Chain

> > > of Custody Form " that is on their site, along with

> > > sample to be

> > > tested. Does anyone know why a chain of custody

> > > form would need to be

> > > signed. Are they afraid I may want it back, or

> > > what? Just kidding of

> > > course. Anyway, does this mean if stachy were

> > > found, etc., they could

> > > report it to some agency or something. I just

> > > wondering. I know for

> > > Home Depot tests, I filled out name, address and

> > > where collected but

> > > they didn't have any chain of custody form. I just

> > > find it curious.

> > > Anyone know about this?

> > >

> >

> > __________________________________________________

> >

July 18, 2006

Thanks Carl. It makes a lot of sense if you

consider court. I forget people sue about these

matters and wonder what all the hopla is about

sometimes. I'm just trying to clean up my home,

so I wondered why the documents and signature.

I'm sending a check! That has my signature on it!

Some people must pursue legal actions.

--- " Carl E. Grimes " <grimes@...> wrote:

> Barb,>

> In simple terms without getting into all the

> technicalities and

> legalities, the chain of custody is a formal

> procedure stating in

>

July 18, 2006

Thanks Barb. That was my fear and may play a

part in their keeping good records even if no

lawsuit is going on now. Sometimes these things

may develope into lawsuits.

--- Barbara <floridabound03200@...> wrote:

>

> Possibly they want to be able to keep track of

> houses

> that tested positive for mold/mycotoxins.

>

> Barb E.

July 18, 2006

bbw,

Even without court, it helps ensure both parties are on the same page

when it comes to handling, shipping and reporting. IF you follow the

instructions and IF the lab does also, at least you both know what to

expect. Labs that don't use a chain of custody are often just

collecting samples to make money. They don't care about reliablility.

An indication of a professional lab is some sort of third party

accreditation such as EMLAP/EMPAT or A2LA. They should also have

trained mycologists that look at the samples, not just a supervisor

that is a mycologist.

Why is all this important? You've read my posts for over a year now

about how lab samples have so many errors and how slight changes can

make big differences in the lab results. This at least assures a

minimal set of errors.

You've all read the posts of others when the lab results were

" negative. " If the negative results are false, meaning there is mold

but it didn't show up, you are out of luck.

I know one person who collected samples and they all came back with

ZERO results. Now no one believes this person and she will not be

able to get any help. Talk about destroying hope!

Also, chain of custody is documentation, like a receipt when you buy

something at a store. You may not need it for court, but there are

other uses and other meanings.

If you just want to clean up your house, 99 times out of 100 you

don't need any testing. The testing doesn't show where all the mold

growth is and it doesn't change how to remove it. Interpreting lab

results from faulty samples and analysis to prove you have a " mold

problem " is no different than the landlord or boss at work

interpreting those same lab results to prove there is not a " mold

problem. " Do you want accurate information or just something to

convince others? You know there is a problem so I highly recommend

you put money for testing into cleaning and keeping things dry.

If you do have a legal or medical issue, then the new Texas Tech

analysis is very interesting. But, again, beware of the strengths and

weaknesses of any sampling, handling, shipping etc so you get

accurate results that support a successful remediation rather than

more wasted time and money. Over reliance on testing is the biggest

mistake made in mold and water damage suituations.

Finally, the professional labs do NOT interpret the data, they only

report it. They don't know where it was sampled or why or anything

else that affects the results. This means they don't know if the

house has a mycotoxin problem or not because what is a problem for

one person is not a problem for another. They are not part of " big

brother " like some other segments of our society.

Carl Grimes

Healthy Habitats LLC

-----

> Thanks Carl. It makes a lot of sense if you

> consider court. I forget people sue about these

> matters and wonder what all the hopla is about

> sometimes. I'm just trying to clean up my home,

> so I wondered why the documents and signature.

> I'm sending a check! That has my signature on it!

> Some people must pursue legal actions.

>

> --- " Carl E. Grimes " <grimes@...> wrote:

>

> > Barb,>

> > In simple terms without getting into all the

> > technicalities and

> > legalities, the chain of custody is a formal

> > procedure stating in

> >

>

July 18, 2006

Carl, the to know why there is chain of custody

form is not important. I just wondered. I went

through period lately of not feeling well, and I

let some housework go. Even if I get behind in

housework I don't let water stand around, sink,

etc, but placed a pop bottle on counter and tired

or lazy, I emptied it but didn't wash it out. A

day or two later (embarassment) I noticed mold

growing in it. Also a wood stirring utensil that

I know I dry each time I use it has turned

greenish in kitchen, so just want to know what

type of mold it is. I think it is coming down

from attic as damper was left open on fresh air

intake in basement by accident and all the

registers in house were directly connected to

outside and blower was not on, so a big hole in

house and air was not been sucked in by blower,

as blower was off, so a nice low pressure zone.

I think it may have caused down draft from attic

or something. Upstairs smelled musty too, so I

closed off fresh air intakes from the outside and

problem has cleared up, air smells okay now and I

feel better too. I felt terrible for a couple

weeks, spent most of my time of sofa, couldn't

get up for very long.

I must attend to attic air or arrange to get it

sealed off better. Anyway, since I am growing a

nice amount of it in pop bottle, thought I would

send it off and see what it is. Home Depot won't

take a pop bottle, but Texas University place

would. Said they can't guarantee it will travel

okay but made some suggestions.

I've only done the Home Depot thing before and

there was no chain of custody report to fill out.

Just was wondering.

I was just surprised. Bottle is so very small,

with tiny bottle opening at top, a day and half

or two, mostly empty and got this growth. Then I

noticed wood stir that I use and always wash and

dry afterwards since it is unfinished wood

turning green in same area. The growth is same

color.

--- " Carl E. Grimes " <grimes@...> wrote:

> bbw,

>

> Even without court, it helps ensure both

> parties are on the same page

> when it comes to handling, shipping and

> reporting. IF you follow the

> instructions and IF the lab does also, at least

> you both

July 18, 2006

Favor, please?

Carl presented the answer cogently and thoroughly

as he always does. Thank you.

This is quite a relevant issue for those of us

with potential or current court cases - many

readers who keep up on the court scene realize

that this particular issue got Eva Geffcken

royally screwed in her case (despite her lung

cancer and her son's liver failure due to their

mold exposure) because the folks who did her

environmental work utterly botched the chain of

custody.

A faulty chain of custody can destroy an

otherwise solid case, and some of us watch for

news of it like others the stock market... The

Geffcken case appellate level decision affirmed

the lower court, but said it wouldn't set

precedent for other cases. SOOOOO those of us

filing in California are holding our collective

breath that this decison will not actually be

interpretted in ways that affect our current and

future cases...

So, I hate to be rude, but if someone poses an

interesting question -like what is chain of

custody and why is it important- and you don't

know the answer, please either refrain from

guessing preemptively or carry on that

conversation OFF the list... Please give the

Carls and others who know the answer time to

reply since many of us are checking to see if

others here know more than we do - Carl (and

others on the list) often does, but I'm more

likely to miss it if I've opened a half dozen 'I

dunnos' posted before his reply.

Thank you for your courtesy.

~Haley

--- " Carl E. Grimes " <grimes@...> wrote:

> bbw,

>

> Even without court, it helps ensure both

> parties are on the same page

> when it comes to handling, shipping and

> reporting. IF you follow the

> instructions and IF the lab does also, at least

> you both know what to

> expect. Labs that don't use a chain of custody

> are often just

> collecting samples to make money. They don't

> care about reliablility.

>

> An indication of a professional lab is some

> sort of third party

> accreditation such as EMLAP/EMPAT or A2LA. They

> should also have

> trained mycologists that look at the samples,

> not just a supervisor

> that is a mycologist.

>

> Why is all this important? You've read my posts

> for over a year now

> about how lab samples have so many errors and

> how slight changes can

> make big differences in the lab results. This

> at least assures a

> minimal set of errors.

>

> You've all read the posts of others when the

> lab results were

> " negative. " If the negative results are false,

> meaning there is mold

> but it didn't show up, you are out of luck.

>

> I know one person who collected samples and

> they all came back with

> ZERO results. Now no one believes this person

> and she will not be

> able to get any help. Talk about destroying

> hope!

>

> Also, chain of custody is documentation, like a

> receipt when you buy

> something at a store. You may not need it for

> court, but there are

> other uses and other meanings.

>

> If you just want to clean up your house, 99

> times out of 100 you

> don't need any testing. The testing doesn't

> show where all the mold

> growth is and it doesn't change how to remove

> it. Interpreting lab

> results from faulty samples and analysis to

> prove you have a " mold

> problem " is no different than the landlord or

> boss at work

> interpreting those same lab results to prove

> there is not a " mold

> problem. " Do you want accurate information or

> just something to

> convince others? You know there is a problem so

> I highly recommend

> you put money for testing into cleaning and

> keeping things dry.

>

> If you do have a legal or medical issue, then

> the new Texas Tech

> analysis is very interesting. But, again,

> beware of the strengths and

> weaknesses of any sampling, handling, shipping

> etc so you get

> accurate results that support a successful

> remediation rather than

> more wasted time and money. Over reliance on

> testing is the biggest

> mistake made in mold and water damage

> suituations.

>

> Finally, the professional labs do NOT interpret

> the data, they only

> report it. They don't know where it was sampled

> or why or anything

> else that affects the results. This means they

> don't know if the

> house has a mycotoxin problem or not because

> what is a problem for

> one person is not a problem for another. They

> are not part of " big

> brother " like some other segments of our

> society.

>

> Carl Grimes

> Healthy Habitats LLC

>

> -----

> > Thanks Carl. It makes a lot of sense if you

> > consider court. I forget people sue about

> these

> > matters and wonder what all the hopla is

> about

> > sometimes. I'm just trying to clean up my

> home,

> > so I wondered why the documents and

> signature.

> > I'm sending a check! That has my signature on

> it!

> > Some people must pursue legal actions.

> >

> > --- " Carl E. Grimes " <grimes@...>

> wrote:

> >

> > > Barb,>

> > > In simple terms without getting into all

> the

> > > technicalities and

> > > legalities, the chain of custody is a

> formal

> > > procedure stating in

> > >

> >

July 18, 2006

Carl,

There are many situations in dwellings where there is mold growth in one

area as a result of a leak and because of testing find that there are multiple

sources for mold growth in areas other than what was known to be a problem.

Without testing, only the visible and or known areas of leaks with mold growth

would have been remediated.

I believe the need for testing is highly individualized depending upon the

type of dwelling, common walls, known history of the building- history of

leaks, health problems and or physical symptoms experienced by the individuals

within these dwellings.

Granted, testing will not always identify where the mold growth is, though

sometimes not testing can lead to an ineffective and or compromised clean up.

Unfortunately, this is an all too common scenario where individuals have

become ill from a mold exposure, clean up the area and continue sick unaware

that the contamination is continuing from other sources within their dwelling.

In a message dated 7/17/2006 10:25:10 PM Central Standard Time,

grimes@... writes: