Guest guest Posted July 15, 2006 Report Share Posted July 15, 2006 Carl, Thank you for bringing this very important information to our attention. I think it is especially important to use the proper terms when dealing with doctors who refuse to believe mold/mycotoxins can cause health problems. The fact that 24 percent of " us " will stay sick when the mold exposure stops, I find to be very upsetting. Isn't there anything we can do to repair the damage that was done? Additionally, I'm sorry I didn't know anything about antimycotics years ago, because my doctor has had me on antibiotics for the last 3 to 4 years, and they haven't helped. Barb E. --- " Carl E. Grimes " <grimes@...> wrote: > Dear Group, > > I would caution everyone to pay attention to > vocabulary and how terms > are used. And I'm not picking on Marcie or Kurt it's > just that this > topic provides a forum for the following points. > > There is more to our very real and serious exposure > problems than > JUST mold. Not all mold is " black mold. " For > example, the infection > risk mentioned below for Aspergillus fumagatus - > which is very > dangerous -- is NOT black mold. A. fumagatus is > green with a white > fringe. So just because the mold you see is not > black, do not think > that it is safe. > > On the other hand, there are an estimated 20,000 > black molds, most of > which are not as toxigenic as Stachybotrys > chartarum; which is the > typical black mold but is not strictly black but > more of a very dark > green or greenish-black. I have also sampled > Stachybotrys that is not > black and even white. Not all Stachybotrys produces > toxins. > > There are huge and critical differences between > infectious, toxic, > allergic, irritant, heurologic, etc. Killing mold > will prevent > infection but none of the other effects. Infection, > which can be > deadly, is not as common as the others which is why > mold should be > removed and not just killed. > > Why the precision of terms? The experts make their > living and save > our lives because of the precision. You don't want > them giving you > allergy shots if you have an infection, or visa > versa. > > When the mold exposure stops about 24% of us will > stay sick because > of how our body creates other complications from > what was started by > the mold exposure. Confusing outside exposure from > internal exposure > can lead to a lack of proper treatment. > > We aren't the experts so all we should do is report > our experience, > hoping the experts will identify the cause. When > they can't or don't > then we have to become our own expert but we lose > all credibility > because of imprecise vocabulary. We can't out-argue > the experts on > vocabulary and that shifts the focus away from the > fact that we are > sick. > > Finally, the reason molds don't respond well to > antibiotics is not > because mold is so hard to kill. It is because > antibiotics are for > bacteria and any specific one won't kill all > bacteria. Different > bacterial infections require different types of > antibiotics. So, if > you want to kill a mold infection you need an > antimycotic. Proof that > even doctors have problems with this one is revealed > by the Mayo > Clinic study that finally explained why many sinus > infections were > helped by antibiotics. The infection wasn't > bacterial but fungal. > They needed an antimycotic. Critical difference in > terms with life > and death implications. > > 1. Improve your vocabulary and use of terms but > don't let that stop > you from taking action to protect yourself. > > 2. When the experts claim you can't be sick because > they don't have a > diagnosis, don't try to argue vocabulary or to > escalate the claim > with a more dangerous situation. If further weakens > your position. > > 3. When making a claim don't specify mold or black > mold or whatever. > Their responce will be geared solely to disprove > your " obviously > wrong diagnosis " and the focus then shifts to a > personal argurment > instead of the fact that something is still making > you sick. Stopping > the sickness is the remedy. > > I realize this is overly simplified and easier said > than done, but > let's not shoot ourselves in the foot just because > the " marksmen " > don't even aim correctly. It also shifts the > liablity away from them > and back onto us. That creates the outrage so many > of us have > experienced. > > I'm not saying stop making claims, just be careful > what they are so > you don't inadvertantly assist the opposition. > > Carl Grimes > Healthy Habitats LLC __________________________________________________ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 15, 2006 Report Share Posted July 15, 2006 Barb, > The fact that 24 percent of " us " will stay sick when > the mold exposure stops, I find to be very upsetting. > Isn't there anything we can do to repair the damage > that was done? Because the reason is genetic, there is no cure until we learn how to correct the genetics. All we can do is help the body by using Dr Shoemaker's protocol or something similar. And it only works for that episode. Get exposed to mold or other biologocial toxin and you need the CSM again. Stem cells? I heard a recent rumbling that stem cells may be an answer to the " bubble boy " syndrome. My doctors treated my candidae with antibiotics for decades thinking the throat symptoms could be strep. It never was. Once, when I was especially sick, the lab told me the throat culture was negative. I was astounded and told the nurse there must be a mistake. She said, " Well, there is stuff growing all over the culture plate, it nearly pushed the lid off. " I asked if she reported it to the doctor. She said, " I only report what he asks for. " I pushed her with the fact that whatever it was could be important and please tell the doctor. She refused. I took a different tactic and asked her what it could be other than strep. She said, " Oh it could be any of a thousand things including yeast. " Bingo! Except they didn't know about yeast and it was another year before I did. BTW, in addition to a couple of misspellings in my post, I left out the word " not " when talking about the Mayo Clinic report. It should have said, " ... the Mayo Clinic study that finally explained why many sinus infections were NOT helped by antibiotics. " Carl Grimes Healthy Habitats LLC ----- > Carl, > > Thank you for bringing this very important information > to our attention. I think it is especially important > to use the proper terms when dealing with doctors who > refuse to believe mold/mycotoxins can cause health > problems. > > > Additionally, I'm sorry I didn't know anything about > antimycotics years ago, because my doctor has had me > on antibiotics for the last 3 to 4 years, and they > haven't helped. > > Barb E. > > > --- " Carl E. Grimes " <grimes@...> wrote: > > > Dear Group, > > > > I would caution everyone to pay attention to > > vocabulary and how terms > > are used. And I'm not picking on Marcie or Kurt it's > > just that this > > topic provides a forum for the following points. > > > > There is more to our very real and serious exposure > > problems than > > JUST mold. Not all mold is " black mold. " For > > example, the infection > > risk mentioned below for Aspergillus fumagatus - > > which is very > > dangerous -- is NOT black mold. A. fumagatus is > > green with a white > > fringe. So just because the mold you see is not > > black, do not think > > that it is safe. > > > > On the other hand, there are an estimated 20,000 > > black molds, most of > > which are not as toxigenic as Stachybotrys > > chartarum; which is the > > typical black mold but is not strictly black but > > more of a very dark > > green or greenish-black. I have also sampled > > Stachybotrys that is not > > black and even white. Not all Stachybotrys produces > > toxins. > > > > There are huge and critical differences between > > infectious, toxic, > > allergic, irritant, heurologic, etc. Killing mold > > will prevent > > infection but none of the other effects. Infection, > > which can be > > deadly, is not as common as the others which is why > > mold should be > > removed and not just killed. > > > > Why the precision of terms? The experts make their > > living and save > > our lives because of the precision. You don't want > > them giving you > > allergy shots if you have an infection, or visa > > versa. > > > > When the mold exposure stops about 24% of us will > > stay sick because > > of how our body creates other complications from > > what was started by > > the mold exposure. Confusing outside exposure from > > internal exposure > > can lead to a lack of proper treatment. > > > > We aren't the experts so all we should do is report > > our experience, > > hoping the experts will identify the cause. When > > they can't or don't > > then we have to become our own expert but we lose > > all credibility > > because of imprecise vocabulary. We can't out-argue > > the experts on > > vocabulary and that shifts the focus away from the > > fact that we are > > sick. > > > > Finally, the reason molds don't respond well to > > antibiotics is not > > because mold is so hard to kill. It is because > > antibiotics are for > > bacteria and any specific one won't kill all > > bacteria. Different > > bacterial infections require different types of > > antibiotics. So, if > > you want to kill a mold infection you need an > > antimycotic. Proof that > > even doctors have problems with this one is revealed > > by the Mayo > > Clinic study that finally explained why many sinus > > infections were > > helped by antibiotics. The infection wasn't > > bacterial but fungal. > > They needed an antimycotic. Critical difference in > > terms with life > > and death implications. > > > > 1. Improve your vocabulary and use of terms but > > don't let that stop > > you from taking action to protect yourself. > > > > 2. When the experts claim you can't be sick because > > they don't have a > > diagnosis, don't try to argue vocabulary or to > > escalate the claim > > with a more dangerous situation. If further weakens > > your position. > > > > 3. When making a claim don't specify mold or black > > mold or whatever. > > Their responce will be geared solely to disprove > > your " obviously > > wrong diagnosis " and the focus then shifts to a > > personal argurment > > instead of the fact that something is still making > > you sick. Stopping > > the sickness is the remedy. > > > > I realize this is overly simplified and easier said > > than done, but > > let's not shoot ourselves in the foot just because > > the " marksmen " > > don't even aim correctly. It also shifts the > > liablity away from them > > and back onto us. That creates the outrage so many > > of us have > > experienced. > > > > I'm not saying stop making claims, just be careful > > what they are so > > you don't inadvertantly assist the opposition. > > > > Carl Grimes > > Healthy Habitats LLC > > > > __________________________________________________ > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 15, 2006 Report Share Posted July 15, 2006 Guess Im one of the 24 percent Janet Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 15, 2006 Report Share Posted July 15, 2006 Below is an example of one of the thousands of reason it is sooo hard to get diagnosed, OR treated. Lab only checks for what doctor thought could have been problem. If it's not that, the negative finding is the end to the exploration. Of course, as we all know there are MANY more problem than this though. I've had a sore throat for two years, which was my very first symptoms when I first felt sick, and I can't even get a throat culture or swab because the doctor cannot SEE anything wrong with my throat, including two ENT. I guess he/she/they think they have superman x-ray, or magna vision. --- " Carl E. Grimes " <grimes@...> wrote: Once, when I was > especially sick, the lab told me the throat > culture was negative. I > was astounded and told the nurse there must be > a mistake. She said, > " Well, there is stuff growing all over the > culture plate, it nearly > pushed the lid off. " I asked if she reported it > to the doctor. She > said, " I only report what he asks for. " Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 15, 2006 Report Share Posted July 15, 2006 Carl, Is the damage to other parts of the body irreversible, due to the fact the individual was not properly diagnosed and treated immediately for mold/mycotoxin exposure, or, would the damage have occurred anyway, due to the individuals genetic make-up? Additionally, is it true that using antibiotics for a prolonged period of time, does more harm, than good, to the body? Barb E. --- " Carl E. Grimes " <grimes@...> wrote: > Barb, > > > The fact that 24 percent of " us " will stay sick > when > > the mold exposure stops, I find to be very > upsetting. > > Isn't there anything we can do to repair the > damage > > that was done? > > Because the reason is genetic, there is no cure > until we learn how to > correct the genetics. All we can do is help the body > by using Dr > Shoemaker's protocol or something similar. And it > only works for that > episode. Get exposed to mold or other biologocial > toxin and you need > the CSM again. Stem cells? I heard a recent rumbling > that stem cells > may be an answer to the " bubble boy " syndrome. > > My doctors treated my candidae with antibiotics for > decades thinking > the throat symptoms could be strep. It never was. > Once, when I was > especially sick, the lab told me the throat culture > was negative. I > was astounded and told the nurse there must be a > mistake. She said, > " Well, there is stuff growing all over the culture > plate, it nearly > pushed the lid off. " I asked if she reported it to > the doctor. She > said, " I only report what he asks for. " > > I pushed her with the fact that whatever it was > could be important > and please tell the doctor. She refused. I took a > different tactic > and asked her what it could be other than strep. She > said, " Oh it > could be any of a thousand things including yeast. " > Bingo! Except > they didn't know about yeast and it was another year > before I did. > > BTW, in addition to a couple of misspellings in my > post, I left out > the word " not " when talking about the Mayo Clinic > report. It should > have said, " ... the Mayo Clinic study that finally > explained why many > sinus infections were NOT helped by antibiotics. " > > Carl Grimes > Healthy Habitats LLC __________________________________________________ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 15, 2006 Report Share Posted July 15, 2006 antibiotics kill good bacteria and thus contribute to an overgrowth of candida albicans. Barbara <floridabound03200@...> wrote: Carl, Is the damage to other parts of the body irreversible, due to the fact the individual was not properly diagnosed and treated immediately for mold/mycotoxin exposure, or, would the damage have occurred anyway, due to the individuals genetic make-up? Additionally, is it true that using antibiotics for a prolonged period of time, does more harm, than good, to the body? Barb E. --- " Carl E. Grimes " <grimes@...> wrote: > Barb, > > > The fact that 24 percent of " us " will stay sick > when > > the mold exposure stops, I find to be very > upsetting. > > Isn't there anything we can do to repair the > damage > > that was done? > > Because the reason is genetic, there is no cure > until we learn how to > correct the genetics. All we can do is help the body > by using Dr > Shoemaker's protocol or something similar. And it > only works for that > episode. Get exposed to mold or other biologocial > toxin and you need > the CSM again. Stem cells? I heard a recent rumbling > that stem cells > may be an answer to the " bubble boy " syndrome. > > My doctors treated my candidae with antibiotics for > decades thinking > the throat symptoms could be strep. It never was. > Once, when I was > especially sick, the lab told me the throat culture > was negative. I > was astounded and told the nurse there must be a > mistake. She said, > " Well, there is stuff growing all over the culture > plate, it nearly > pushed the lid off. " I asked if she reported it to > the doctor. She > said, " I only report what he asks for. " > > I pushed her with the fact that whatever it was > could be important > and please tell the doctor. She refused. I took a > different tactic > and asked her what it could be other than strep. She > said, " Oh it > could be any of a thousand things including yeast. " > Bingo! Except > they didn't know about yeast and it was another year > before I did. > > BTW, in addition to a couple of misspellings in my > post, I left out > the word " not " when talking about the Mayo Clinic > report. It should > have said, " ... the Mayo Clinic study that finally > explained why many > sinus infections were NOT helped by antibiotics. " > > Carl Grimes > Healthy Habitats LLC __________________________________________________ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 15, 2006 Report Share Posted July 15, 2006 Yes, as we all have learned the hard way, running cultures on patients that simply test for bacteria and not mold is one of the biggest obstacles to a correct diagnosis for those with mold exposure. The problem with testing for mold, is the expense. Even if tests were run for only the few most commonly found toxic types of molds, the cost would still be prohibitive. I have had patients who have had chronic UTI's as a result of mold exposure. Their urine cultures would come out negative all the time, though many showed consistently high elevations of white cell counts in their urine. Now here is an idea for a specialty lab to market to both physicians and patients; Offer up a test at a reduced cost that could be run with a culture that tested for a few of the most commonly found toxic molds..... In a message dated 7/15/2006 8:17:27 AM Central Standard Time, barb1283@... writes: Below is an example of one of the thousands of reason it is sooo hard to get diagnosed, OR treated. Lab only checks for what doctor thought could have been problem. If it's not that, the negative finding is the end to the exploration. Of course, as we all know there are MANY more problem than this though. I've had a sore throat for two years, which was my very first symptoms when I first felt sick, and I can't even get a throat culture or swab because the doctor cannot SEE anything wrong with my throat, including two ENT. I guess he/she/they think they have superman x-ray, or magna vision. --- " Carl E. Grimes " <_grimes@..._ (mailto:grimes@...) > wrote: Once, when I was > especially sick, the lab told me the throat > culture was negative. I > was astounded and told the nurse there must be > a mistake. She said, > " Well, there is stuff growing all over the > culture plate, it nearly > pushed the lid off. " I asked if she reported it > to the doctor. She > said, " I only report what he asks for. " Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 15, 2006 Report Share Posted July 15, 2006 There is an emerging opinion in neuroscience that posits that the roots of many neurogenerative diseases of old age have their roots in cumulative insults received while one is younger. In other words, people who have received 'mild' brain injuries when young, and 'recovered' have a *much* higher probability of early onset age-related mental decline. There is the beginning of a consensus on this in the neuroscience community, from what I have heard. This does not bode well for those who have mold-related illness, even if they seem to have recovered somewhat. However, (surprise...) I can't remember the name of this theory.. It starts with a " P " - i remember that.. *sigh* Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 15, 2006 Report Share Posted July 15, 2006 I did that. Tested negative for UTI but white blood cells were high. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 15, 2006 Report Share Posted July 15, 2006 Hi Barb E, I'm not Carl but taking an antibiotic if you have a fungal infection, can help the fungal infection become worse if it is in your digestive tract due to killing off beneficial bacteria that line your GI tract and protect it from bad bacteria, fungus and Candidas. If fungus or Candida is not GI tract, it may not have hurt you, especially if the fungal infection compromised your immune system and made you susceptible to other infections. It could have helped keep bacterial infections down, so your body could concentrate on killing the fungus, so it depends on where fungal infection was/is. I think doctors should do more testing, to determine what kind of infection they are treating. If type of infection is isolated, then specific medicine can be treated in culture to see if it will be affective before even giving it to patient. If it was themselves, they probably would dig deeper for the exact cause I'm sure. --- Barbara <floridabound03200@...> wrote: > > Additionally, is it true that using antibiotics > for a > prolonged period of time, does more harm, than > good, > to the body? > > Barb E. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 16, 2006 Report Share Posted July 16, 2006 I believe all this is correct, gang...... & just for your info? This might knock your socks off, but my uncle just died recently--of brain or cerebral aspirgillosis. We were all VERY upset, needless to say!! Shortly before I became extremely ill, I was also on zithromax....for an upper respiratory thing, bronchitis type symptoms. BUT--was working in a very very sick building at the time. That building is STILL making people very ill. It's an outrage...... V. RE: RE: [] Help Again!!!! - Carl Hi Barb E, I'm not Carl but taking an antibiotic if you have a fungal infection, can help the fungal infection become worse if it is in your digestive tract due to killing off beneficial bacteria that line your GI tract and protect it from bad bacteria, fungus and Candidas. If fungus or Candida is not GI tract, it may not have hurt you, especially if the fungal infection compromised your immune system and made you susceptible to other infections. It could have helped keep bacterial infections down, so your body could concentrate on killing the fungus, so it depends on where fungal infection was/is. I think doctors should do more testing, to determine what kind of infection they are treating. If type of infection is isolated, then specific medicine can be treated in culture to see if it will be affective before even giving it to patient. If it was themselves, they probably would dig deeper for the exact cause I'm sure. --- Barbara <floridabound03200@...> wrote: > > Additionally, is it true that using antibiotics > for a > prolonged period of time, does more harm, than > good, > to the body? > > Barb E. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 16, 2006 Report Share Posted July 16, 2006 hey gang, help? i have a friend who has a HORRIBLE sinus infection, which i firmly believe is fungal....what should she be using? she's been on antibiotics, & its NOT helping....go figure, right? thanks, v. RE: RE: [] Help Again!!!! - Carl antibiotics kill good bacteria and thus contribute to an overgrowth of candida albicans. Barbara <floridabound03200@...> wrote: Carl, Is the damage to other parts of the body irreversible, due to the fact the individual was not properly diagnosed and treated immediately for mold/mycotoxin exposure, or, would the damage have occurred anyway, due to the individuals genetic make-up? Additionally, is it true that using antibiotics for a prolonged period of time, does more harm, than good, to the body? Barb E. --- " Carl E. Grimes " <grimes@...> wrote: > Barb, > > > The fact that 24 percent of " us " will stay sick > when > > the mold exposure stops, I find to be very > upsetting. > > Isn't there anything we can do to repair the > damage > > that was done? > > Because the reason is genetic, there is no cure > until we learn how to > correct the genetics. All we can do is help the body > by using Dr > Shoemaker's protocol or something similar. And it > only works for that > episode. Get exposed to mold or other biologocial > toxin and you need > the CSM again. Stem cells? I heard a recent rumbling > that stem cells > may be an answer to the " bubble boy " syndrome. > > My doctors treated my candidae with antibiotics for > decades thinking > the throat symptoms could be strep. It never was. > Once, when I was > especially sick, the lab told me the throat culture > was negative. I > was astounded and told the nurse there must be a > mistake. She said, > " Well, there is stuff growing all over the culture > plate, it nearly > pushed the lid off. " I asked if she reported it to > the doctor. She > said, " I only report what he asks for. " > > I pushed her with the fact that whatever it was > could be important > and please tell the doctor. She refused. I took a > different tactic > and asked her what it could be other than strep. She > said, " Oh it > could be any of a thousand things including yeast. " > Bingo! Except > they didn't know about yeast and it was another year > before I did. > > BTW, in addition to a couple of misspellings in my > post, I left out > the word " not " when talking about the Mayo Clinic > report. It should > have said, " ... the Mayo Clinic study that finally > explained why many > sinus infections were NOT helped by antibiotics. " > > Carl Grimes > Healthy Habitats LLC __________________________________________________ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 16, 2006 Report Share Posted July 16, 2006 Maybe her doctor would give her antifungal nasal spray like for Rx stuff. I've heard of people putting things in water on stove and breathing it in deeply. Not sure what stuff but natural antifungals, I guess like grapefruit seed extra, garlic oil, oregano oil. But don't take my word on the naturals. I haven't done it myself. --- <toriaquilts@...> wrote: > hey gang, help? i have a friend who has a > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 16, 2006 Report Share Posted July 16, 2006 thanks! v. Re: RE: [] Help Again!!!! - Carl Maybe her doctor would give her antifungal nasal spray like for Rx stuff. I've heard of people putting things in water on stove and breathing it in deeply. Not sure what stuff but natural antifungals, I guess like grapefruit seed extra, garlic oil, oregano oil. But don't take my word on the naturals. I haven't done it myself. --- <toriaquilts@...> wrote: > hey gang, help? i have a friend who has a > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You are posting as a guest. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.