Re: new member/mold questions

[Guest guest]

hi olif, i would have tape tests done first to find out what your

dealing with. you can even do your own and have a lab to test it.

cost around $50.00 . just take 2inch clear tape and stick it to

visable mold, try to get a little of each color, or several different

areas if its all black. a mold testing company will know of a lab or

will send it for you. this is the cheapest way to start. after you

know what your dealing with, heres a link were you can click on the

mold type and get some information on them.

http://www.emlab.com/app/fungi/Fungi.po

there are many reasons why you could be the only one felling the

effects, some effects can be very gradual, and if you have children,

pay very close attention to how they fell, any changes in their

eating, energy,,hair loss, oral, skin rash, sores, ect. and not

haveing a runny nose or lung problems does not mean anything, some of

these symptoms can creep up on you and I had a home with mostly 'the

black mold " stachybotrys, it made my nose burn not

run.

>

> Hi, I am a new member. I am also new to researching mold, and I

have some questions if someone could please help me.

>

> We moved into an older home 4 years ago. Within a couple weeks of

moving in, we had mold growing on the 2nd floor bathroom ceiling

(they must have painted to cover it up). Shortly after that, it began

growing on the walls. It is a black mold, but probably not *the*

black mold. We have since treated the walls with killz, but the black

mold still grows in the toilet bowl, toothbrush holder, etc. I also

didn't make a connection until last weekend, but the basement walls

were also painted, and they left a small dehumidifier in the

basement. We run it in the summer, because it does get humid down

there. We probably need a larger unit, though, because this one looks

more like room-size. About 6 months ago, we tore out a small piece of

plaster from the ceiling on the staircase going upstairs (from 1st to

2nd floor). I noticed that the wood underneath was black, but thought

maybe there had been a fire. I am now suspecting that it was mold,

because the wood didn't look burnt, even though it was black.

>

> About a year ago, I started experiencing extreme fatigue. I have

had it for about 14 months now. I have tried diet changes (removing

food sensitivities), and recently an anti-Candida protocol. I also

started seeing an ND last weekend. She ruled out Candida, since I

wasn't having any die-off after a month of treatment.

>

> I am wondering if you think, given the background mold info on the

house, it could be the mold making me ill? I am the only one in the

family who is sick though, and I have no respiratory sypmtoms at all,

not even a runny nose! Also, I have no medical insurance, and I am

wondering if I should have a specific test done to make sure it is

the mold bothering me. Should I have the house tested first to

confirm we have a serious mold problem? I am just not sure where to

start the testing- with me or the house.

>

> Any help is greatly appreciated!

>

> Thanks,

> Olif

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

On 7/22/06, Olif <OVanPelt@...> wrote:

> Hi, I am a new member. I am also new to researching mold, and I have some

questions if someone could please help me.

>

> We moved into an older home 4 years ago. Within a couple weeks of moving in,

we had >mold growing on the 2nd floor bathroom ceiling (they must have painted

to cover it up). >Shortly after that, it began growing on the walls. It is a

black mold, but probably not *the* >black mold. We have since treated the walls

with killz, but the black mold still grows in the >toilet bowl, toothbrush

holder, etc.

Do you have a vent fan in your bathroom ceiling. If not, you need to

install one now. Mold does not grow that way without major humidity in

the air.

>I also didn't make a connection until last weekend, but the basement

walls were also painted, and they left a small dehumidifier in the

basement.

>We run it in the summer, because it does get humid down there. We

probably need a larger unit, though, because this one looks more like

room-size.

What is the humidity like in your area? You may simply need more

ventilation, like blower fans blowing both into and out of your

basement. I am not an expert, but I would say, yes, perhaps also

larger dehumidifiers. if you can't leave the windows open...In any

case, measure it.. they have relative humidity meters - do whatever it

takes to keep your RH no higher than 55 or 60%. Even lower, if

possible.

>About 6 months ago, we tore out a small piece of plaster from the

ceiling on the staircase going upstairs (from 1st to 2nd floor). I

noticed that the wood underneath was black, but thought maybe there

had been a fire. I am now suspecting that it was mold, because the

wood didn't look burnt, even though it was black.

>

> About a year ago, I started experiencing extreme fatigue. I have had it for

about 14 months now. I have tried diet changes (removing food sensitivities),

and recently an anti-Candida protocol. I also started seeing an ND last weekend.

She ruled out Candida, since I wasn't having any die-off after a month of

treatment.

I get this too when I get toxic mold exposure. I can't speak for

others, but let me share what has helped me.. First, you need to

increase the amount of fresh air in your house or if that isn't

possible during the daytime because of AC, run big HEPA filter units,

as much filtration as possible. If you can't afford HEPA, buy big 20

fans and duct tape the purple micro-allergenic Filtrete filters to the

intake side of them with the arrows in the right direction..

I had good luck with a Whirpool whispure AP450 (around $250) It was a

good investment..

Important: Have you tried cholestyramine? Its a prescription drug but

it has helped so many people here, myself included, reduce the

symptoms from toxin buildup.

See moldwarriors.com / chronicneurotoxins.com . Also, take lots of

supplemental omega 3's (fish oil) I take fish oil caps 3x a day. I

also take alpha-lipoic acid and NAC (n-acetyl-cysteine) Some people

have said that zinc supplements and acetyl-l-carnitine help them too.

I have also found vinpocetine to help. It helps maintain blood

circulation to your brain which by all accounts gets impacted severely

by the mold (inflammation)

>

> I am wondering if you think, given the background mold info on the house, it

could be the mold making me ill?

I do. Your story sounds very familiar to me.

> I am the only one in the family who is sick though, and I have no respiratory

sypmtoms at all, not even a runny nose!

Is your nose stopped up a lot, especially at night? Do you wake up

feeling very stuffy and tired?

>Also, I have no medical insurance, and I am wondering if I should

have a specific test done to make sure it is the mold bothering me.

I don't know if such a test exists or if it would help you as you are

not in a situation where you need to prove causation as many here who

are involved in legal battles are.. Your situation sounds to me like

the mold is quite likely to be causing your health issues. Do you get

better when you are outdoors?

You know, not all mold is toxinogenic or even allergenic. It takes

serious moisture to create the really bad situations that impact

people's health seriously. So I think common sense would dictate

devoting all of your energy to 1.) getting rid of the ongoing moisture

issues

2.) cleaning up mold both outside and inside the walls.. IN THAT ORDER

>Should I have the house tested first to confirm we have a serious

mold problem? I am just not sure where to start the testing- with me

or the house.

>

> Any help is greatly appreciated!

CLEAN IT UP. GET THAT HUMIDITY DOWN! Don't waste time testing, unless

you want to sue someone. You know you are sick. You could waste weeks

trying to track it down. Clean it up! Find all water sources. Fix

leaks. throw out porous things that have mold on them. Scrub

everything else. Get fresh air through there. HEPA filter.

[Guest guest]

live simply, please be careful about telling people to clean up

their mold. it should be tested first dont you think so? what if it

is stachy or other toxic fungi, a hepa mask does not protect you from

mycotoxins. some situations do require professional clean up and some

homes are beyond cleaning up. by telling someone to clean it up you

may be telling them to stir up toxic fungi that well make them even

more ill. you desideing to stay in your moldy home does not mean

everyone should or can. if she is finding a lot of evidence of

possible past and/or continueing mold growth, painted over, there is

a chance the home had a mold problem prior to her buying it witch may

of had remediation done on it before and its coming back. if it has

had a long term mold problem it may be infested into the walls and

cealing joists and no amount of cleaning is going to do any good but

could make her much sicker by trying to clean it up. and please be

careful about saying that mold has to have a serious moisture problem

because that is not true either. stachybotrys can and does servive

drier conditions. think about it. stachy becomes dangerous when it

becomes airborne, it doesn't become airborne until it dries.

mycotoxins attach to the spores and can be released everytime it gets

stirred up.its been tested and found that it remains toxic for

several years even when dry, every single spore should be removed,

thats basically imposible and may be part of the reason that

remediation doesn't always work. unless she wants to live with gutted

out walls to try to keep even one little spore from again becomeing

many. also, I have to wonder where you live and what you do in the

winter when you cant open the windows. I was even more exposed in my

home during winter months because the heating system caused those dry

mold spores to stay stirred up. I would take great caution when

telling someone to clean it up, as your and their situation could be

a lot

different.

> > Hi, I am a new member. I am also new to researching mold, and I

have some questions if someone could please help me.

> >

> > We moved into an older home 4 years ago. Within a couple weeks of

moving in, we had >mold growing on the 2nd floor bathroom ceiling

(they must have painted to cover it up). >Shortly after that, it

began growing on the walls. It is a black mold, but probably not

*the* >black mold. We have since treated the walls with killz, but

the black mold still grows in the >toilet bowl, toothbrush holder,

etc.

>

> Do you have a vent fan in your bathroom ceiling. If not, you need to

> install one now. Mold does not grow that way without major humidity

in

> the air.

>

> >I also didn't make a connection until last weekend, but the

basement

> walls were also painted, and they left a small dehumidifier in the

> basement.

> >We run it in the summer, because it does get humid down there. We

> probably need a larger unit, though, because this one looks more

like

> room-size.

>

> What is the humidity like in your area? You may simply need more

> ventilation, like blower fans blowing both into and out of your

> basement. I am not an expert, but I would say, yes, perhaps also

> larger dehumidifiers. if you can't leave the windows open...In any

> case, measure it.. they have relative humidity meters - do whatever

it

> takes to keep your RH no higher than 55 or 60%. Even lower, if

> possible.

>

> >About 6 months ago, we tore out a small piece of plaster from the

> ceiling on the staircase going upstairs (from 1st to 2nd floor). I

> noticed that the wood underneath was black, but thought maybe there

> had been a fire. I am now suspecting that it was mold, because the

> wood didn't look burnt, even though it was black.

> >

> > About a year ago, I started experiencing extreme fatigue. I have

had it for about 14 months now. I have tried diet changes (removing

food sensitivities), and recently an anti-Candida protocol. I also

started seeing an ND last weekend. She ruled out Candida, since I

wasn't having any die-off after a month of treatment.

>

> I get this too when I get toxic mold exposure. I can't speak for

> others, but let me share what has helped me.. First, you need to

> increase the amount of fresh air in your house or if that isn't

> possible during the daytime because of AC, run big HEPA filter

units,

> as much filtration as possible. If you can't afford HEPA, buy big 20

> fans and duct tape the purple micro-allergenic Filtrete filters to

the

> intake side of them with the arrows in the right direction..

>

> I had good luck with a Whirpool whispure AP450 (around $250) It was

a

> good investment..

>

> Important: Have you tried cholestyramine? Its a prescription drug

but

> it has helped so many people here, myself included, reduce the

> symptoms from toxin buildup.

>

> See moldwarriors.com / chronicneurotoxins.com . Also, take lots of

> supplemental omega 3's (fish oil) I take fish oil caps 3x a day. I

> also take alpha-lipoic acid and NAC (n-acetyl-cysteine) Some people

> have said that zinc supplements and acetyl-l-carnitine help them

too.

>

> I have also found vinpocetine to help. It helps maintain blood

> circulation to your brain which by all accounts gets impacted

severely

> by the mold (inflammation)

>

> >

> > I am wondering if you think, given the background mold info on

the house, it could be the mold making me ill?

>

> I do. Your story sounds very familiar to me.

>

> > I am the only one in the family who is sick though, and I have no

respiratory sypmtoms at all, not even a runny nose!

>

> Is your nose stopped up a lot, especially at night? Do you wake up

> feeling very stuffy and tired?

>

> >Also, I have no medical insurance, and I am wondering if I should

> have a specific test done to make sure it is the mold bothering me.

>

> I don't know if such a test exists or if it would help you as you

are

> not in a situation where you need to prove causation as many here

who

> are involved in legal battles are.. Your situation sounds to me like

> the mold is quite likely to be causing your health issues. Do you

get

> better when you are outdoors?

>

> You know, not all mold is toxinogenic or even allergenic. It takes

> serious moisture to create the really bad situations that impact

> people's health seriously. So I think common sense would dictate

> devoting all of your energy to 1.) getting rid of the ongoing

moisture

> issues

> 2.) cleaning up mold both outside and inside the walls.. IN THAT

ORDER

>

> >Should I have the house tested first to confirm we have a serious

> mold problem? I am just not sure where to start the testing- with me

> or the house.

> >

> > Any help is greatly appreciated!

>

>

> CLEAN IT UP. GET THAT HUMIDITY DOWN! Don't waste time testing,

unless

> you want to sue someone. You know you are sick. You could waste

weeks

> trying to track it down. Clean it up! Find all water sources. Fix

> leaks. throw out porous things that have mold on them. Scrub

> everything else. Get fresh air through there. HEPA filter.

>

[Guest guest]

" i would have tape tests done first to find out what your

dealing with. you can even do your own and have a lab to test it.

cost around $50.00 . just take 2inch clear tape and stick it to

visable mold, try to get a little of each color, or several different

areas if its all black. "

Right now it is only visible in the toilet bowl, if I go about 5 days without

cleaning it. I did find a toy in the shower that has black mold growing inside

of it. I was going to toss it, but maybe I should keep it for testing.

Do I just want it tested to rule out stachybotrys? Is that my main reason for

testing? We only have black mold, no other colors.

Is tape any more effective than swabs for testing?

Also, our house doesn't smell musty. Could we still have a big mold problem even

if it isn't musty?

Thanks,

Olif

[Guest guest]

" Do you have a vent fan in your bathroom ceiling. If not, you need to

install one now. Mold does not grow that way without major humidity in

the air. "

We just installed one over the winter. It didn't have one at all up until then.

We also only killed the mold off the walls and repainted a few weeks ago. Since

then, it is only visible in the toilet and a little caulk in the shower. We will

replace the caulk soon.

" What is the humidity like in your area? "

I live in IL. It is pretty humid in the summers. We try to keep the windows open

most of the time, although that increases humidity rather than having the air

on.

" Is your nose stopped up a lot, especially at night? Do you wake up

feeling very stuffy and tired? "

That is exactly how I feel! I wake up tired most days. When we have our ceiling

fan on, though, I wake up congested, fatigued, and hung-over feeling. I feel

awful. I am guessing that the fan could be stirring up the spores.

" Do you get

better when you are outdoors? "

I don't think I have ever noticed. I am guessing that I have too much toxin

buildup where spending a day outdoors wouldn't make a difference, because it is

still in my body.

I do take cod liver oil daily. I have also noticed that a product called Natural

Cellular Defense gives me energy. It is for detox, among other things. I am

guessing that it is removing toxins from my body giving me energy. If I skip a

dose or try cutting back, I get tired again, probably because I am not removing

the source.

I don't think we have any water leaks. The ceiling going down to the basement

doesn't look right, paint is bubbling a bit and it looks like it was patched

over. We are going to tear that out and take a look. Other than that, I really

don't see any damage and don't have musty odor. The upstairs is humid, in

general, because we don't have enough heat/air vents up there. We will try a

dehumidifier, and probably a HEPA filter. We will probably do an at-home test to

try to identify it though, so that I can read up on it.

Thanks for all the info!

-Olif

[Guest guest]

" a hepa mask does not protect you from

mycotoxins "

Does that mean a hepa filter wouldn't filter them out either? I know that is

probably a stupid question...

Thanks,

Olif

[Guest guest]

" if it has

had a long term mold problem it may be infested into the walls and

cealing joists "

Is there a way I can determine this myself without hiring an inspector?

Thanks,

Olif

[] Re: new member/mold questions

live simply, please be careful about telling people to clean up

their mold. it should be tested first dont you think so? what if it

is stachy or other toxic fungi, a hepa mask does not protect you from

mycotoxins. some situations do require professional clean up and some

homes are beyond cleaning up. by telling someone to clean it up you

may be telling them to stir up toxic fungi that well make them even

more ill. you desideing to stay in your moldy home does not mean

everyone should or can. if she is finding a lot of evidence of

possible past and/or continueing mold growth, painted over, there is

a chance the home had a mold problem prior to her buying it witch may

of had remediation done on it before and its coming back. if it has

had a long term mold problem it may be infested into the walls and

cealing joists and no amount of cleaning is going to do any good but

could make her much sicker by trying to clean it up. and please be

careful about saying that mold has to have a serious moisture problem

because that is not true either. stachybotrys can and does servive

drier conditions. think about it. stachy becomes dangerous when it

becomes airborne, it doesn't become airborne until it dries.

mycotoxins attach to the spores and can be released everytime it gets

stirred up.its been tested and found that it remains toxic for

several years even when dry, every single spore should be removed,

thats basically imposible and may be part of the reason that

remediation doesn't always work. unless she wants to live with gutted

out walls to try to keep even one little spore from again becomeing

many. also, I have to wonder where you live and what you do in the

winter when you cant open the windows. I was even more exposed in my

home during winter months because the heating system caused those dry

mold spores to stay stirred up. I would take great caution when

telling someone to clean it up, as your and their situation could be

a lot

different.

> > Hi, I am a new member. I am also new to researching mold, and I

have some questions if someone could please help me.

> >

> > We moved into an older home 4 years ago. Within a couple weeks of

moving in, we had >mold growing on the 2nd floor bathroom ceiling

(they must have painted to cover it up). >Shortly after that, it

began growing on the walls. It is a black mold, but probably not

*the* >black mold. We have since treated the walls with killz, but

the black mold still grows in the >toilet bowl, toothbrush holder,

etc.

>

> Do you have a vent fan in your bathroom ceiling. If not, you need to

> install one now. Mold does not grow that way without major humidity

in

> the air.

>

> >I also didn't make a connection until last weekend, but the

basement

> walls were also painted, and they left a small dehumidifier in the

> basement.

> >We run it in the summer, because it does get humid down there. We

> probably need a larger unit, though, because this one looks more

like

> room-size.

>

> What is the humidity like in your area? You may simply need more

> ventilation, like blower fans blowing both into and out of your

> basement. I am not an expert, but I would say, yes, perhaps also

> larger dehumidifiers. if you can't leave the windows open...In any

> case, measure it.. they have relative humidity meters - do whatever

it

> takes to keep your RH no higher than 55 or 60%. Even lower, if

> possible.

>

> >About 6 months ago, we tore out a small piece of plaster from the

> ceiling on the staircase going upstairs (from 1st to 2nd floor). I

> noticed that the wood underneath was black, but thought maybe there

> had been a fire. I am now suspecting that it was mold, because the

> wood didn't look burnt, even though it was black.

> >

> > About a year ago, I started experiencing extreme fatigue. I have

had it for about 14 months now. I have tried diet changes (removing

food sensitivities), and recently an anti-Candida protocol. I also

started seeing an ND last weekend. She ruled out Candida, since I

wasn't having any die-off after a month of treatment.

>

> I get this too when I get toxic mold exposure. I can't speak for

> others, but let me share what has helped me.. First, you need to

> increase the amount of fresh air in your house or if that isn't

> possible during the daytime because of AC, run big HEPA filter

units,

> as much filtration as possible. If you can't afford HEPA, buy big 20

> fans and duct tape the purple micro-allergenic Filtrete filters to

the

> intake side of them with the arrows in the right direction..

>

> I had good luck with a Whirpool whispure AP450 (around $250) It was

a

> good investment..

>

> Important: Have you tried cholestyramine? Its a prescription drug

but

> it has helped so many people here, myself included, reduce the

> symptoms from toxin buildup.

>

> See moldwarriors.com / chronicneurotoxins.com . Also, take lots of

> supplemental omega 3's (fish oil) I take fish oil caps 3x a day. I

> also take alpha-lipoic acid and NAC (n-acetyl-cysteine) Some people

> have said that zinc supplements and acetyl-l-carnitine help them

too.

>

> I have also found vinpocetine to help. It helps maintain blood

> circulation to your brain which by all accounts gets impacted

severely

> by the mold (inflammation)

>

> >

> > I am wondering if you think, given the background mold info on

the house, it could be the mold making me ill?

>

> I do. Your story sounds very familiar to me.

>

> > I am the only one in the family who is sick though, and I have no

respiratory sypmtoms at all, not even a runny nose!

>

> Is your nose stopped up a lot, especially at night? Do you wake up

> feeling very stuffy and tired?

>

> >Also, I have no medical insurance, and I am wondering if I should

> have a specific test done to make sure it is the mold bothering me.

>

> I don't know if such a test exists or if it would help you as you

are

> not in a situation where you need to prove causation as many here

who

> are involved in legal battles are.. Your situation sounds to me like

> the mold is quite likely to be causing your health issues. Do you

get

> better when you are outdoors?

>

> You know, not all mold is toxinogenic or even allergenic. It takes

> serious moisture to create the really bad situations that impact

> people's health seriously. So I think common sense would dictate

> devoting all of your energy to 1.) getting rid of the ongoing

moisture

> issues

> 2.) cleaning up mold both outside and inside the walls.. IN THAT

ORDER

>

> >Should I have the house tested first to confirm we have a serious

> mold problem? I am just not sure where to start the testing- with me

> or the house.

> >

> > Any help is greatly appreciated!

>

>

> CLEAN IT UP. GET THAT HUMIDITY DOWN! Don't waste time testing,

unless

> you want to sue someone. You know you are sick. You could waste

weeks

> trying to track it down. Clean it up! Find all water sources. Fix

> leaks. throw out porous things that have mold on them. Scrub

> everything else. Get fresh air through there. HEPA filter.

>

[Guest guest]

The Smell of Mold is so bad in my Place I used Vinegar To wipe things down, to

take the order away so far it's working I put Vinegar in a vase. next to my bed

and corners all around it help to take away the smell of mold it may work for

others it sure helped me and keep me from sleeping in my car.

Elvira

[] Re: new member/mold questions

live simply, please be careful about telling people to clean up

their mold. it should be tested first dont you think so? what if it

is stachy or other toxic fungi, a hepa mask does not protect you from

mycotoxins. some situations do require professional clean up and some

homes are beyond cleaning up. by telling someone to clean it up you

may be telling them to stir up toxic fungi that well make them even

more ill. you desideing to stay in your moldy home does not mean

everyone should or can. if she is finding a lot of evidence of

possible past and/or continueing mold growth, painted over, there is

a chance the home had a mold problem prior to her buying it witch may

of had remediation done on it before and its coming back. if it has

had a long term mold problem it may be infested into the walls and

cealing joists and no amount of cleaning is going to do any good but

could make her much sicker by trying to clean it up. and please be

careful about saying that mold has to have a serious moisture problem

because that is not true either. stachybotrys can and does servive

drier conditions. think about it. stachy becomes dangerous when it

becomes airborne, it doesn't become airborne until it dries.

mycotoxins attach to the spores and can be released everytime it gets

stirred up.its been tested and found that it remains toxic for

several years even when dry, every single spore should be removed,

thats basically imposible and may be part of the reason that

remediation doesn't always work. unless she wants to live with gutted

out walls to try to keep even one little spore from again becomeing

many. also, I have to wonder where you live and what you do in the

winter when you cant open the windows. I was even more exposed in my

home during winter months because the heating system caused those dry

mold spores to stay stirred up. I would take great caution when

telling someone to clean it up, as your and their situation could be

a lot

different.

> > Hi, I am a new member. I am also new to researching mold, and I

have some questions if someone could please help me.

> >

> > We moved into an older home 4 years ago. Within a couple weeks of

moving in, we had >mold growing on the 2nd floor bathroom ceiling

(they must have painted to cover it up). >Shortly after that, it

began growing on the walls. It is a black mold, but probably not

*the* >black mold. We have since treated the walls with killz, but

the black mold still grows in the >toilet bowl, toothbrush holder,

etc.

>

> Do you have a vent fan in your bathroom ceiling. If not, you need to

> install one now. Mold does not grow that way without major humidity

in

> the air.

>

> >I also didn't make a connection until last weekend, but the

basement

> walls were also painted, and they left a small dehumidifier in the

> basement.

> >We run it in the summer, because it does get humid down there. We

> probably need a larger unit, though, because this one looks more

like

> room-size.

>

> What is the humidity like in your area? You may simply need more

> ventilation, like blower fans blowing both into and out of your

> basement. I am not an expert, but I would say, yes, perhaps also

> larger dehumidifiers. if you can't leave the windows open...In any

> case, measure it.. they have relative humidity meters - do whatever

it

> takes to keep your RH no higher than 55 or 60%. Even lower, if

> possible.

>

> >About 6 months ago, we tore out a small piece of plaster from the

> ceiling on the staircase going upstairs (from 1st to 2nd floor). I

> noticed that the wood underneath was black, but thought maybe there

> had been a fire. I am now suspecting that it was mold, because the

> wood didn't look burnt, even though it was black.

> >

> > About a year ago, I started experiencing extreme fatigue. I have

had it for about 14 months now. I have tried diet changes (removing

food sensitivities), and recently an anti-Candida protocol. I also

started seeing an ND last weekend. She ruled out Candida, since I

wasn't having any die-off after a month of treatment.

>

> I get this too when I get toxic mold exposure. I can't speak for

> others, but let me share what has helped me.. First, you need to

> increase the amount of fresh air in your house or if that isn't

> possible during the daytime because of AC, run big HEPA filter

units,

> as much filtration as possible. If you can't afford HEPA, buy big 20

> fans and duct tape the purple micro-allergenic Filtrete filters to

the

> intake side of them with the arrows in the right direction..

>

> I had good luck with a Whirpool whispure AP450 (around $250) It was

a

> good investment..

>

> Important: Have you tried cholestyramine? Its a prescription drug

but

> it has helped so many people here, myself included, reduce the

> symptoms from toxin buildup.

>

> See moldwarriors.com / chronicneurotoxins.com . Also, take lots of

> supplemental omega 3's (fish oil) I take fish oil caps 3x a day. I

> also take alpha-lipoic acid and NAC (n-acetyl-cysteine) Some people

> have said that zinc supplements and acetyl-l-carnitine help them

too.

>

> I have also found vinpocetine to help. It helps maintain blood

> circulation to your brain which by all accounts gets impacted

severely

> by the mold (inflammation)

>

> >

> > I am wondering if you think, given the background mold info on

the house, it could be the mold making me ill?

>

> I do. Your story sounds very familiar to me.

>

> > I am the only one in the family who is sick though, and I have no

respiratory sypmtoms at all, not even a runny nose!

>

> Is your nose stopped up a lot, especially at night? Do you wake up

> feeling very stuffy and tired?

>

> >Also, I have no medical insurance, and I am wondering if I should

> have a specific test done to make sure it is the mold bothering me.

>

> I don't know if such a test exists or if it would help you as you

are

> not in a situation where you need to prove causation as many here

who

> are involved in legal battles are.. Your situation sounds to me like

> the mold is quite likely to be causing your health issues. Do you

get

> better when you are outdoors?

>

> You know, not all mold is toxinogenic or even allergenic. It takes

> serious moisture to create the really bad situations that impact

> people's health seriously. So I think common sense would dictate

> devoting all of your energy to 1.) getting rid of the ongoing

moisture

> issues

> 2.) cleaning up mold both outside and inside the walls.. IN THAT

ORDER

>

> >Should I have the house tested first to confirm we have a serious

> mold problem? I am just not sure where to start the testing- with me

> or the house.

> >

> > Any help is greatly appreciated!

>

>

> CLEAN IT UP. GET THAT HUMIDITY DOWN! Don't waste time testing,

unless

> you want to sue someone. You know you are sick. You could waste

weeks

> trying to track it down. Clean it up! Find all water sources. Fix

> leaks. throw out porous things that have mold on them. Scrub

> everything else. Get fresh air through there. HEPA filter.

>

[Guest guest]

its hard to say, I was expososed to stachy for several years from

roof leaks, never seen it, never smelt it. swab test, would be about

the same. the bubbleing wallpaper doesn't sound good, I've had

someone contact me that bought a home and went to tear off some

messed up wallpaper and found mold heavily behind it. I would get

testing done first to rule out stachy or other toxic fungi before I

stirred things up.there are other black molds that can be

allergenic,pathogenic or toxic. toxic molds are not the only kind to

be worried about. for some people, allergenic and pathogenic molds

can do a lot of damage over time.

I dont know how you would deturmine if it had a prior mold problem,

except by talking to neighbors, or finding a company that may of

dealt with it. with my second home, i did some calling to find out

about dealing with the problem and they told me they had been there

before, go fiqure.

and that doesn't mean profesional remediation companys all the time

because many construction companys that do interior gutting and

remodeling will deal with it.

looking back on my own experience and knowing what I know now, a

dehumidafier in the basement when you bought it might be a clue of

past moisture problems. also the fact that you seam to be haveing to

deal with moisture issues at all. see what Im saying?

IL. a big corn growing state, at certain times of the year, mainly

during harvest, you may want to keep your windows shut. corn and the

herbicides used on it can cause a lot of mold growth witch ends up in

the air, more so when its being harvested. please understand that I

have MCS and Im super sensative to mold now, and I wouldn't wish this

illness on anyone.I not trying to scare you, just hopeing that any

info. may help you stay healty.I've only been to IL. once, just

remember miles after miles of corn fields. dont know if they bail

much hay there, another crop that puts a lot of mold in the air.

if you have a mold problem in your home, it well be molds from your

enviroment. corn grows mainly fusarium, aspergillus and stachy.

you know, after much searching for a mold free apartment, I have

found one, been here about a year, the fact that the bathroom had no

exhaust fan really scared me, but I have had no problems with mold in

the bathroom. I'd still like a exhaust fan put in, but i was very

suprized to find that I have no mold problems at all in the bathroom.

I used to be a clean freak, but my cronic fatique has slowed me down.

I lived in moldy houses so long, I think I forgot what being in a

really dry place with no mold problems really ment. and I'll be

waiting for e-mails with this statement,lol's, but, well maybe I

should put it like this. like the moldy fruit, is it possible that a

mold problem in the home can cause mold to grow more readily in your

bathroom regardless of weather or not you have some moisture problems

or things like leaky tolits or whatever. Im just thinking that if

mold spores are floating around in your air inside (more than the

usual amount that naturaly comes in from outside air) wouldn't it

find the bathroom and possibly the kitchen or any other moist areas

to grow? more so than the

usual?

--- In , " Olif " <OVanPelt@...>

wrote:

>

> " i would have tape tests done first to find out what your

> dealing with. you can even do your own and have a lab to test it.

> cost around $50.00 . just take 2inch clear tape and stick it to

> visable mold, try to get a little of each color, or several

different

> areas if its all black. "

>

> Right now it is only visible in the toilet bowl, if I go about 5

days without cleaning it. I did find a toy in the shower that has

black mold growing inside of it. I was going to toss it, but maybe I

should keep it for testing.

>

> Do I just want it tested to rule out stachybotrys? Is that my main

reason for testing? We only have black mold, no other colors.

>

> Is tape any more effective than swabs for testing?

>

> Also, our house doesn't smell musty. Could we still have a big mold

problem even if it isn't musty?

>

> Thanks,

> Olif

>

>

[Guest guest]

OLIF--Ask us any question you want to ask. I don't know the answer but somebody

will. We care about each other here. The only dumb thing I have seen lately is

a doctor. He had me in tears too. Leigh

Olif <OVanPelt@...> wrote: " a hepa mask

does not protect you from

mycotoxins "

Does that mean a hepa filter wouldn't filter them out either? I know that is

probably a stupid question...

Thanks,

Olif

[Guest guest]

Leigh,

Please explain what you mean by " not good. "

" Not Good, " in what way?

Barb E.

--- Leigh McCall-Alton <mccallalton@...> wrote:

> vinegar is not good for mold sensiitve people.

>

> elvira52 <Elvira52@...> wrote:

> The Smell of Mold is so bad in

> my Place I used Vinegar To wipe things down, to

> take the order away so far it's working I put

> Vinegar in a vase. next to my bed and corners all

> around it help to take away the smell of mold it

> may work for others it sure helped me and keep me

> from sleeping in my car.

>

> Elvira

>

> [] Re: new member/mold

> questions

>

> live simply, please be careful about telling people

> to clean up

> their mold. it should be tested first dont you

> think so? what if it

> is stachy or other toxic fungi, a hepa mask does

> not protect you from

> mycotoxins. some situations do require

> professional clean up and some

> homes are beyond cleaning up. by telling someone

> to clean it up you

> may be telling them to stir up toxic fungi that

> well make them even

> more ill. you desideing to stay in your moldy

> home does not mean

> everyone should or can. if she is finding a lot

> of evidence of

> possible past and/or continueing mold growth,

> painted over, there is

> a chance the home had a mold problem prior to her

> buying it witch may

> of had remediation done on it before and its

> coming back. if it has

> had a long term mold problem it may be infested

> into the walls and

> cealing joists and no amount of cleaning is going

> to do any good but

> could make her much sicker by trying to clean it

> up. and please be

> careful about saying that mold has to have a

> serious moisture problem

> because that is not true either. stachybotrys can

> and does servive

> drier conditions. think about it. stachy becomes

> dangerous when it

> becomes airborne, it doesn't become airborne

> until it dries.

> mycotoxins attach to the spores and can be

> released everytime it gets

> stirred up.its been tested and found that it

> remains toxic for

> several years even when dry, every single spore

> should be removed,

> thats basically imposible and may be part of the

> reason that

> remediation doesn't always work. unless she wants

> to live with gutted

> out walls to try to keep even one little spore

> from again becomeing

> many. also, I have to wonder where you live and

> what you do in the

> winter when you cant open the windows. I was even

> more exposed in my

> home during winter months because the heating

> system caused those dry

> mold spores to stay stirred up. I would take

> great caution when

> telling someone to clean it up, as your and their

> situation could be

> a lot

> different.

>

>

> > > Hi, I am a new member. I am also new to

> researching mold, and I

> have some questions if someone could please help

> me.

> > >

> > > We moved into an older home 4 years ago.

> Within a couple weeks of

> moving in, we had >mold growing on the 2nd floor

> bathroom ceiling

> (they must have painted to cover it up). >Shortly

> after that, it

> began growing on the walls. It is a black mold,

> but probably not

> *the* >black mold. We have since treated the

> walls with killz, but

> the black mold still grows in the >toilet bowl,

> toothbrush holder,

> etc.

> >

> > Do you have a vent fan in your bathroom

> ceiling. If not, you need to

> > install one now. Mold does not grow that way

> without major humidity

> in

> > the air.

> >

> > >I also didn't make a connection until last

> weekend, but the

> basement

> > walls were also painted, and they left a small

> dehumidifier in the

> > basement.

> > >We run it in the summer, because it does get

> humid down there. We

> > probably need a larger unit, though, because

> this one looks more

> like

> > room-size.

> >

> > What is the humidity like in your area? You may

> simply need more

> > ventilation, like blower fans blowing both into

> and out of your

> > basement. I am not an expert, but I would say,

> yes, perhaps also

> > larger dehumidifiers. if you can't leave the

> windows open...In any

> > case, measure it.. they have relative humidity

> meters - do whatever

> it

> > takes to keep your RH no higher than 55 or 60%.

> Even lower, if

> > possible.

> >

> > >About 6 months ago, we tore out a small piece

> of plaster from the

> > ceiling on the staircase going upstairs (from

> 1st to 2nd floor). I

> > noticed that the wood underneath was black, but

> thought maybe there

> > had been a fire. I am now suspecting that it

> was mold, because the

> > wood didn't look burnt, even though it was

> black.

> > >

> > > About a year ago, I started experiencing

> extreme fatigue. I have

> had it for about 14 months now. I have tried diet

> changes (removing

> food sensitivities), and recently an anti-Candida

> protocol. I also

> started seeing an ND last weekend. She ruled out

> Candida, since I

> wasn't having any die-off after a month of

> treatment.

> >

> > I get this too when I get toxic mold exposure.

> I can't speak for

> > others, but let me share what has helped me..

> First, you need to

> > increase the amount of fresh air in your house

> or if that isn't

> > possible during the daytime because of AC, run

> big HEPA filter

> units,

> > as much filtration as possible. If you can't

> afford HEPA, buy big 20

> > fans and duct tape the purple micro-allergenic

> Filtrete filters to

> the

> > intake side of them with the arrows in the

> right direction..

> >

> > I had good luck with a Whirpool whispure AP450

> (around $250) It was

> a

> > good investment..

> >

>

=== message truncated ===

__________________________________________________

[Guest guest]

vinegar comes from rotten apples, not the best part of the crop.

Barbara <floridabound03200@...> wrote:

Leigh,

Please explain what you mean by " not good. "

" Not Good, " in what way?

Barb E.

--- Leigh McCall-Alton <mccallalton@...> wrote:

> vinegar is not good for mold sensiitve people.

>

> elvira52 <Elvira52@...> wrote:

> The Smell of Mold is so bad in

> my Place I used Vinegar To wipe things down, to

> take the order away so far it's working I put

> Vinegar in a vase. next to my bed and corners all

> around it help to take away the smell of mold it

> may work for others it sure helped me and keep me

> from sleeping in my car.

>

> Elvira

>

> [] Re: new member/mold

> questions

>

> live simply, please be careful about telling people

> to clean up

> their mold. it should be tested first dont you

> think so? what if it

> is stachy or other toxic fungi, a hepa mask does

> not protect you from

> mycotoxins. some situations do require

> professional clean up and some

> homes are beyond cleaning up. by telling someone

> to clean it up you

> may be telling them to stir up toxic fungi that

> well make them even

> more ill. you desideing to stay in your moldy

> home does not mean

> everyone should or can. if she is finding a lot

> of evidence of

> possible past and/or continueing mold growth,

> painted over, there is

> a chance the home had a mold problem prior to her

> buying it witch may

> of had remediation done on it before and its

> coming back. if it has

> had a long term mold problem it may be infested

> into the walls and

> cealing joists and no amount of cleaning is going

> to do any good but

> could make her much sicker by trying to clean it

> up. and please be

> careful about saying that mold has to have a

> serious moisture problem

> because that is not true either. stachybotrys can

> and does servive

> drier conditions. think about it. stachy becomes

> dangerous when it

> becomes airborne, it doesn't become airborne

> until it dries.

> mycotoxins attach to the spores and can be

> released everytime it gets

> stirred up.its been tested and found that it

> remains toxic for

> several years even when dry, every single spore

> should be removed,

> thats basically imposible and may be part of the

> reason that

> remediation doesn't always work. unless she wants

> to live with gutted

> out walls to try to keep even one little spore

> from again becomeing

> many. also, I have to wonder where you live and

> what you do in the

> winter when you cant open the windows. I was even

> more exposed in my

> home during winter months because the heating

> system caused those dry

> mold spores to stay stirred up. I would take

> great caution when

> telling someone to clean it up, as your and their

> situation could be

> a lot

> different.

>

>

> > > Hi, I am a new member. I am also new to

> researching mold, and I

> have some questions if someone could please help

> me.

> > >

> > > We moved into an older home 4 years ago.

> Within a couple weeks of

> moving in, we had >mold growing on the 2nd floor

> bathroom ceiling

> (they must have painted to cover it up). >Shortly

> after that, it

> began growing on the walls. It is a black mold,

> but probably not

> *the* >black mold. We have since treated the

> walls with killz, but

> the black mold still grows in the >toilet bowl,

> toothbrush holder,

> etc.

> >

> > Do you have a vent fan in your bathroom

> ceiling. If not, you need to

> > install one now. Mold does not grow that way

> without major humidity

> in

> > the air.

> >

> > >I also didn't make a connection until last

> weekend, but the

> basement

> > walls were also painted, and they left a small

> dehumidifier in the

> > basement.

> > >We run it in the summer, because it does get

> humid down there. We

> > probably need a larger unit, though, because

> this one looks more

> like

> > room-size.

> >

> > What is the humidity like in your area? You may

> simply need more

> > ventilation, like blower fans blowing both into

> and out of your

> > basement. I am not an expert, but I would say,

> yes, perhaps also

> > larger dehumidifiers. if you can't leave the

> windows open...In any

> > case, measure it.. they have relative humidity

> meters - do whatever

> it

> > takes to keep your RH no higher than 55 or 60%.

> Even lower, if

> > possible.

> >

> > >About 6 months ago, we tore out a small piece

> of plaster from the

> > ceiling on the staircase going upstairs (from

> 1st to 2nd floor). I

> > noticed that the wood underneath was black, but

> thought maybe there

> > had been a fire. I am now suspecting that it

> was mold, because the

> > wood didn't look burnt, even though it was

> black.

> > >

> > > About a year ago, I started experiencing

> extreme fatigue. I have

> had it for about 14 months now. I have tried diet

> changes (removing

> food sensitivities), and recently an anti-Candida

> protocol. I also

> started seeing an ND last weekend. She ruled out

> Candida, since I

> wasn't having any die-off after a month of

> treatment.

> >

> > I get this too when I get toxic mold exposure.

> I can't speak for

> > others, but let me share what has helped me..

> First, you need to

> > increase the amount of fresh air in your house

> or if that isn't

> > possible during the daytime because of AC, run

> big HEPA filter

> units,

> > as much filtration as possible. If you can't

> afford HEPA, buy big 20

> > fans and duct tape the purple micro-allergenic

> Filtrete filters to

> the

> > intake side of them with the arrows in the

> right direction..

> >

> > I had good luck with a Whirpool whispure AP450

> (around $250) It was

> a

> > good investment..

> >

>

=== message truncated ===

__________________________________________________

[Guest guest]

I heard that vinegar is a good natural detoxant, to eat a lot of

dill

pickles.

> > > > Hi, I am a new member. I am also new to

> > researching mold, and I

> > have some questions if someone could please help

> > me.

> > > >

> > > > We moved into an older home 4 years ago.

> > Within a couple weeks of

> > moving in, we had >mold growing on the 2nd floor

> > bathroom ceiling

> > (they must have painted to cover it up). >Shortly

> > after that, it

> > began growing on the walls. It is a black mold,

> > but probably not

> > *the* >black mold. We have since treated the

> > walls with killz, but

> > the black mold still grows in the >toilet bowl,

> > toothbrush holder,

> > etc.

> > >

> > > Do you have a vent fan in your bathroom

> > ceiling. If not, you need to

> > > install one now. Mold does not grow that way

> > without major humidity

> > in

> > > the air.

> > >

> > > >I also didn't make a connection until last

> > weekend, but the

> > basement

> > > walls were also painted, and they left a small

> > dehumidifier in the

> > > basement.

> > > >We run it in the summer, because it does get

> > humid down there. We

> > > probably need a larger unit, though, because

> > this one looks more

> > like

> > > room-size.

> > >

> > > What is the humidity like in your area? You may

> > simply need more

> > > ventilation, like blower fans blowing both into

> > and out of your

> > > basement. I am not an expert, but I would say,

> > yes, perhaps also

> > > larger dehumidifiers. if you can't leave the

> > windows open...In any

> > > case, measure it.. they have relative humidity

> > meters - do whatever

> > it

> > > takes to keep your RH no higher than 55 or 60%.

> > Even lower, if

> > > possible.

> > >

> > > >About 6 months ago, we tore out a small piece

> > of plaster from the

> > > ceiling on the staircase going upstairs (from

> > 1st to 2nd floor). I

> > > noticed that the wood underneath was black, but

> > thought maybe there

> > > had been a fire. I am now suspecting that it

> > was mold, because the

> > > wood didn't look burnt, even though it was

> > black.

> > > >

> > > > About a year ago, I started experiencing

> > extreme fatigue. I have

> > had it for about 14 months now. I have tried diet

> > changes (removing

> > food sensitivities), and recently an anti-Candida

> > protocol. I also

> > started seeing an ND last weekend. She ruled out

> > Candida, since I

> > wasn't having any die-off after a month of

> > treatment.

> > >

> > > I get this too when I get toxic mold exposure.

> > I can't speak for

> > > others, but let me share what has helped me..

> > First, you need to

> > > increase the amount of fresh air in your house

> > or if that isn't

> > > possible during the daytime because of AC, run

> > big HEPA filter

> > units,

> > > as much filtration as possible. If you can't

> > afford HEPA, buy big 20

> > > fans and duct tape the purple micro-allergenic

> > Filtrete filters to

> > the

> > > intake side of them with the arrows in the

> > right direction..

> > >

> > > I had good luck with a Whirpool whispure AP450

> > (around $250) It was

> > a

> > > good investment..

> > >

> >

> === message truncated ===

>

>

> __________________________________________________

>

[Guest guest]

Leigh,

I think we're talking about 2 different things here. I

was referring to Distilled Vinegar, not Apple Cider

Vinegar.

Cider vinegar or Apple vinegar is made from the

two-fold fermentation of the juices of apples. Vinegar

can be made from other fruits such as peaches and

berries with the labels describing starting materials.

Spirit or distilled vinegar, made by the acetic

fermentation of dilute distilled alcohol.

Barb E.

--- Leigh McCall-Alton <mccallalton@...> wrote:

> vinegar comes from rotten apples, not the best part

> of the crop.

>

> Barbara <floridabound03200@...> wrote:

> Leigh,

>

> Please explain what you mean by " not good. "

>

> " Not Good, " in what way?

>

> Barb E.

>

> --- Leigh McCall-Alton <mccallalton@...>

> wrote:

>

> > vinegar is not good for mold sensiitve people.

> >

> > elvira52 <Elvira52@...> wrote:

>

> > The Smell of Mold is so bad

> in

> > my Place I used Vinegar To wipe things down, to

> > take the order away so far it's working I put

> > Vinegar in a vase. next to my bed and corners

> all

> > around it help to take away the smell of mold it

> > may work for others it sure helped me and keep me

> > from sleeping in my car.

> >

> > Elvira

> >

> > [] Re: new member/mold

> > questions

> >

> > live simply, please be careful about telling

> people

> > to clean up

> > their mold. it should be tested first dont you

> > think so? what if it

> > is stachy or other toxic fungi, a hepa mask

> does

> > not protect you from

> > mycotoxins. some situations do require

> > professional clean up and some

> > homes are beyond cleaning up. by telling

> someone

> > to clean it up you

> > may be telling them to stir up toxic fungi

> that

> > well make them even

> > more ill. you desideing to stay in your moldy

> > home does not mean

> > everyone should or can. if she is finding a

> lot

> > of evidence of

> > possible past and/or continueing mold growth,

> > painted over, there is

> > a chance the home had a mold problem prior to

> her

> > buying it witch may

> > of had remediation done on it before and its

> > coming back. if it has

> > had a long term mold problem it may be

> infested

> > into the walls and

> > cealing joists and no amount of cleaning is

> going

> > to do any good but

> > could make her much sicker by trying to clean

> it

> > up. and please be

> > careful about saying that mold has to have a

> > serious moisture problem

> > because that is not true either. stachybotrys

> can

> > and does servive

> > drier conditions. think about it. stachy

> becomes

> > dangerous when it

> > becomes airborne, it doesn't become airborne

> > until it dries.

> > mycotoxins attach to the spores and can be

> > released everytime it gets

> > stirred up.its been tested and found that it

> > remains toxic for

> > several years even when dry, every single

> spore

> > should be removed,

> > thats basically imposible and may be part of

> the

> > reason that

> > remediation doesn't always work. unless she

> wants

> > to live with gutted

> > out walls to try to keep even one little spore

> > from again becomeing

> > many. also, I have to wonder where you live

> and

> > what you do in the

> > winter when you cant open the windows. I was

> even

> > more exposed in my

> > home during winter months because the heating

> > system caused those dry

> > mold spores to stay stirred up. I would take

> > great caution when

> > telling someone to clean it up, as your and

> their

> > situation could be

> > a lot

> > different.

> >

> >

> > > > Hi, I am a new member. I am also new to

> > researching mold, and I

> > have some questions if someone could please

> help

> > me.

> > > >

> > > > We moved into an older home 4 years ago.

> > Within a couple weeks of

> > moving in, we had >mold growing on the 2nd

> floor

> > bathroom ceiling

> > (they must have painted to cover it up).

> >Shortly

> > after that, it

> > began growing on the walls. It is a black

> mold,

> > but probably not

> > *the* >black mold. We have since treated the

> > walls with killz, but

> > the black mold still grows in the >toilet

> bowl,

> > toothbrush holder,

> > etc.

> > >

> > > Do you have a vent fan in your bathroom

> > ceiling. If not, you need to

> > > install one now. Mold does not grow that way

> > without major humidity

> > in

> > > the air.

> > >

> > > >I also didn't make a connection until last

> > weekend, but the

> > basement

> > > walls were also painted, and they left a

> small

> > dehumidifier in the

> > > basement.

> > > >We run it in the summer, because it does

> get

> > humid down there. We

> > > probably need a larger unit, though, because

> > this one looks more

> > like

> > > room-size.

> > >

> > > What is the humidity like in your area? You

> may

> > simply need more

> > > ventilation, like blower fans blowing both

> into

> > and out of your

> > > basement. I am not an expert, but I would

> say,

> > yes, perhaps also

> > > larger dehumidifiers. if you can't leave the

> > windows open...In any

> > > case, measure it.. they have relative

> humidity

>

=== message truncated ===

__________________________________________________

[Guest guest]

moldy frut is moldy fruit

Barbara <floridabound03200@...> wrote:

Leigh,

I think we're talking about 2 different things here. I

was referring to Distilled Vinegar, not Apple Cider

Vinegar.

Cider vinegar or Apple vinegar is made from the

two-fold fermentation of the juices of apples. Vinegar

can be made from other fruits such as peaches and

berries with the labels describing starting materials.

Spirit or distilled vinegar, made by the acetic

fermentation of dilute distilled alcohol.

Barb E.

--- Leigh McCall-Alton <mccallalton@...> wrote:

> vinegar comes from rotten apples, not the best part

> of the crop.

>

> Barbara <floridabound03200@...> wrote:

> Leigh,

>

> Please explain what you mean by " not good. "

>

> " Not Good, " in what way?

>

> Barb E.

>

> --- Leigh McCall-Alton <mccallalton@...>

> wrote:

>

> > vinegar is not good for mold sensiitve people.

> >

> > elvira52 <Elvira52@...> wrote:

>

> > The Smell of Mold is so bad

> in

> > my Place I used Vinegar To wipe things down, to

> > take the order away so far it's working I put

> > Vinegar in a vase. next to my bed and corners

> all

> > around it help to take away the smell of mold it

> > may work for others it sure helped me and keep me

> > from sleeping in my car.

> >

> > Elvira

> >

> > [] Re: new member/mold

> > questions

> >

> > live simply, please be careful about telling

> people

> > to clean up

> > their mold. it should be tested first dont you

> > think so? what if it

> > is stachy or other toxic fungi, a hepa mask

> does

> > not protect you from

> > mycotoxins. some situations do require

> > professional clean up and some

> > homes are beyond cleaning up. by telling

> someone

> > to clean it up you

> > may be telling them to stir up toxic fungi

> that

> > well make them even

> > more ill. you desideing to stay in your moldy

> > home does not mean

> > everyone should or can. if she is finding a

> lot

> > of evidence of

> > possible past and/or continueing mold growth,

> > painted over, there is

> > a chance the home had a mold problem prior to

> her

> > buying it witch may

> > of had remediation done on it before and its

> > coming back. if it has

> > had a long term mold problem it may be

> infested

> > into the walls and

> > cealing joists and no amount of cleaning is

> going

> > to do any good but

> > could make her much sicker by trying to clean

> it

> > up. and please be

> > careful about saying that mold has to have a

> > serious moisture problem

> > because that is not true either. stachybotrys

> can

> > and does servive

> > drier conditions. think about it. stachy

> becomes

> > dangerous when it

> > becomes airborne, it doesn't become airborne

> > until it dries.

> > mycotoxins attach to the spores and can be

> > released everytime it gets

> > stirred up.its been tested and found that it

> > remains toxic for

> > several years even when dry, every single

> spore

> > should be removed,

> > thats basically imposible and may be part of

> the

> > reason that

> > remediation doesn't always work. unless she

> wants

> > to live with gutted

> > out walls to try to keep even one little spore

> > from again becomeing

> > many. also, I have to wonder where you live

> and

> > what you do in the

> > winter when you cant open the windows. I was

> even

> > more exposed in my

> > home during winter months because the heating

> > system caused those dry

> > mold spores to stay stirred up. I would take

> > great caution when

> > telling someone to clean it up, as your and

> their

> > situation could be

> > a lot

> > different.

> >

> >

> > > > Hi, I am a new member. I am also new to

> > researching mold, and I

> > have some questions if someone could please

> help

> > me.

> > > >

> > > > We moved into an older home 4 years ago.

> > Within a couple weeks of

> > moving in, we had >mold growing on the 2nd

> floor

> > bathroom ceiling

> > (they must have painted to cover it up).

> >Shortly

> > after that, it

> > began growing on the walls. It is a black

> mold,

> > but probably not

> > *the* >black mold. We have since treated the

> > walls with killz, but

> > the black mold still grows in the >toilet

> bowl,

> > toothbrush holder,

> > etc.

> > >

> > > Do you have a vent fan in your bathroom

> > ceiling. If not, you need to

> > > install one now. Mold does not grow that way

> > without major humidity

> > in

> > > the air.

> > >

> > > >I also didn't make a connection until last

> > weekend, but the

> > basement

> > > walls were also painted, and they left a

> small

> > dehumidifier in the

> > > basement.

> > > >We run it in the summer, because it does

> get

> > humid down there. We

> > > probably need a larger unit, though, because

> > this one looks more

> > like

> > > room-size.

> > >

> > > What is the humidity like in your area? You

> may

> > simply need more

> > > ventilation, like blower fans blowing both

> into

> > and out of your

> > > basement. I am not an expert, but I would

> say,

> > yes, perhaps also

> > > larger dehumidifiers. if you can't leave the

> > windows open...In any

> > > case, measure it.. they have relative

> humidity

>

=== message truncated ===

__________________________________________________

[Guest guest]

not if you have mold/yeast problems

who <jeaninem660@...> wrote: I

heard that vinegar is a good natural detoxant, to eat a lot of

dill

pickles.

> > > > Hi, I am a new member. I am also new to

> > researching mold, and I

> > have some questions if someone could please help

> > me.

> > > >

> > > > We moved into an older home 4 years ago.

> > Within a couple weeks of

> > moving in, we had >mold growing on the 2nd floor

> > bathroom ceiling

> > (they must have painted to cover it up). >Shortly

> > after that, it

> > began growing on the walls. It is a black mold,

> > but probably not

> > *the* >black mold. We have since treated the

> > walls with killz, but

> > the black mold still grows in the >toilet bowl,

> > toothbrush holder,

> > etc.

> > >

> > > Do you have a vent fan in your bathroom

> > ceiling. If not, you need to

> > > install one now. Mold does not grow that way

> > without major humidity

> > in

> > > the air.

> > >

> > > >I also didn't make a connection until last

> > weekend, but the

> > basement

> > > walls were also painted, and they left a small

> > dehumidifier in the

> > > basement.

> > > >We run it in the summer, because it does get

> > humid down there. We

> > > probably need a larger unit, though, because

> > this one looks more

> > like

> > > room-size.

> > >

> > > What is the humidity like in your area? You may

> > simply need more

> > > ventilation, like blower fans blowing both into

> > and out of your

> > > basement. I am not an expert, but I would say,

> > yes, perhaps also

> > > larger dehumidifiers. if you can't leave the

> > windows open...In any

> > > case, measure it.. they have relative humidity

> > meters - do whatever

> > it

> > > takes to keep your RH no higher than 55 or 60%.

> > Even lower, if

> > > possible.

> > >

> > > >About 6 months ago, we tore out a small piece

> > of plaster from the

> > > ceiling on the staircase going upstairs (from

> > 1st to 2nd floor). I

> > > noticed that the wood underneath was black, but

> > thought maybe there

> > > had been a fire. I am now suspecting that it

> > was mold, because the

> > > wood didn't look burnt, even though it was

> > black.

> > > >

> > > > About a year ago, I started experiencing

> > extreme fatigue. I have

> > had it for about 14 months now. I have tried diet

> > changes (removing

> > food sensitivities), and recently an anti-Candida

> > protocol. I also

> > started seeing an ND last weekend. She ruled out

> > Candida, since I

> > wasn't having any die-off after a month of

> > treatment.

> > >

> > > I get this too when I get toxic mold exposure.

> > I can't speak for

> > > others, but let me share what has helped me..

> > First, you need to

> > > increase the amount of fresh air in your house

> > or if that isn't

> > > possible during the daytime because of AC, run

> > big HEPA filter

> > units,

> > > as much filtration as possible. If you can't

> > afford HEPA, buy big 20

> > > fans and duct tape the purple micro-allergenic

> > Filtrete filters to

> > the

> > > intake side of them with the arrows in the

> > right direction..

> > >

> > > I had good luck with a Whirpool whispure AP450

> > (around $250) It was

> > a

> > > good investment..

> > >

> >

> === message truncated ===

>

>

> __________________________________________________

>

[Guest guest]

Olif,

This is a mistake that alot in the general public make, assuming

that if they don't smell that musty, earthy smell they don't have

mold. Not all contaminated environments have that warning sign of

odor or visable mold. Case in point, this is exactly what I dealt

with with my wife's place employment. There was no odor and just a

couple of water stains on the ceiling and of course, they were

moldy, but no odor. She sat right below an HVAC vent and was being

blasted by mold and bacteria daily. This left a black soot like dust

on everything. Of course no one ever paid much attention to it, but

yet everyone was sick and didn't know why. This is where the testing

of the building was very important and had concluded it was mold and

gram negative bacteria.

Tape lifts are ok, but they can not be cultured and Carl and Jeff or

one of the other professionals can elaborate on this type of

testing. I would highly recommend swab testing over tape lifts. Yes,

they are a little more expensive, but you get a more accurate

results. As an example a tape lift will let you know that you have

aspergillus, what it will not tell you is what type. Sometimes this

is what you need to know, because there are many species of

aspergillus that are not toxic in general.

KC

>

> " i would have tape tests done first to find out what your

> dealing with. you can even do your own and have a lab to test it.

> cost around $50.00 . just take 2inch clear tape and stick it to

> visable mold, try to get a little of each color, or several

different

> areas if its all black. "

>

> Right now it is only visible in the toilet bowl, if I go about 5

days without cleaning it. I did find a toy in the shower that has

black mold growing inside of it. I was going to toss it, but maybe I

should keep it for testing.

>

> Do I just want it tested to rule out stachybotrys? Is that my main

reason for testing? We only have black mold, no other colors.

>

> Is tape any more effective than swabs for testing?

>

> Also, our house doesn't smell musty. Could we still have a big

mold problem even if it isn't musty?

>

> Thanks,

> Olif

>

>

[Guest guest]

I do not tolerate apple cider vinegar, and can get quite sick from eating

vinagrettes, etc.

However, I have used white vinegar to pour on some beautiful, stinky yellow

mushrooms

outside, and it killed them. My husband is using it to get rid of his atheletes

foot. I pour it

down the drain from time to time to clean them, and I also use it in the laundry

some.

I really wish I had known some years back about it killing ear infections, my

kids both had

a terrible time with those.

>

> Leigh,

>

> I'm sorry Leigh, but I'm going to have to disagree with you here to

> a point, depending on what you mean. Internally or externally? I

> think as Carl had mentioned in a previous post, too much or not

> taken correctly no matter what it may be, could be dangerous to your

> health.

>

> I have been using white vinegar now for the last 5 years, for all

> sorts of things not just cleaning. As a disinfectant this works alot

> better than bleach. It does kill mold (not the mycotoxins) if left

> to absorb enough to get to the roots. It will not whiten like

> bleach, but that can be use later if necessary, which is toxic in

> itself.

>

> As far as the use of white vinegar externally, for skin ailments,

> such as rashes, minor abrasions, areas of dry skin it is a great

> antifungal, antibacterial. Please notice I said white vinegar, not

> apple cider or wine vinegar, because those two alone have much more

> fermentation going on. I've seen the results of the use of white

> vinegar firsthand on these type of ailments along with nail fungus

> (hand or foot) and this is after the use of years of sporanox that

> did not work on this type of fungus. The reason why it works is

> because it is very low on the ph scale and mold will not grow in a

> low ph. I've also used it on my grandchild, nephews of which had ear

> infections from the time they were born and also a deep ear wax

> problem. One treatment of straight white vinegar into the ear

> elevated any infection and now the parents use it as a preventative

> and not had an ear infection since. The seven year old also had an

> ear wax buidup, which it pushed out to the opening where the parents

> could grab it. It changed the kids personality from night to day. I

> do not recommend this if you have had tubes put in the ears. I am

> not a doctor...

>

> Most ear infections are caused by aspergillus niger. Coaches are now

> starting to recommend to their swim teams to use white vinegar after

> practice or a meet. Some doctors are now starting to recommend this

> too. Normal treatment for this is antibodics or steroids and you how

> well that works with a fungal infection, it doesn't.

>

> Internally because it is very acidic I would use it very sparingly.

> I would be afraid that it would low your ph, which is not good. You

> don't want to lower your ph, you want to keep that in a normal range

> 7.0. But on top of everything else I think that's the least of my

> worries. I know know some professionals that are using 2 tablespoons

> a day, that did not believe in the beginning. They are using it for

> counteract their acid reflux and cramping. In case most of you are

> not aware, acid reflux I am finding a high percentage of the time,

> especially in people like yourself, IS NOT from too much acid. It's

> just the opposite, not enough. This is what I also found in my wife.

> The medication that is normally recommended is Nexium, the little

> purple pill, which is an azole, an antifungal. Now why would they be

> giving you an antifungal for acid reflux?

>

> So again, what may not be good for one, may work for others. Please

> don't rule it out, I've seen the results.

>

> KC

>

[Guest guest]

thanks kc, I wasn't sure what the difference was between swab test

and tape test. thinks for clearifying

this.

> >

> > " i would have tape tests done first to find out what your

> > dealing with. you can even do your own and have a lab to test it.

> > cost around $50.00 . just take 2inch clear tape and stick it to

> > visable mold, try to get a little of each color, or several

> different

> > areas if its all black. "

> >

> > Right now it is only visible in the toilet bowl, if I go about 5

> days without cleaning it. I did find a toy in the shower that has

> black mold growing inside of it. I was going to toss it, but maybe

I

> should keep it for testing.

> >

> > Do I just want it tested to rule out stachybotrys? Is that my

main

> reason for testing? We only have black mold, no other colors.

> >

> > Is tape any more effective than swabs for testing?

> >

> > Also, our house doesn't smell musty. Could we still have a big

> mold problem even if it isn't musty?

> >

> > Thanks,

> > Olif

> >

> >

[Guest guest]

On 7/24/06, Olif <OVanPelt@...> wrote:

> " i would have tape tests done first to find out what your

> dealing with. you can even do your own and have a lab to test it.

> cost around $50.00 . just take 2inch clear tape and stick it to

> visable mold, try to get a little of each color, or several different

> areas if its all black. "

Actually, you don;t need to spend that much. Texas Tech and P & K

Laboratories both price testing to genera level at around $25-30. But

that will not always tell you as much as you would like. Another, new

option is here:

http://www.envirologix.com/artman/publish/article_104.shtml

Have not had the chance to need this.. thank God.. but it looks interesting..

>

> Right now it is only visible in the toilet bowl,

What you are describing sounds more like algae, (seaweed- basically) not mold..

if I go about 5 days without cleaning it.

I did find a toy in the shower that has black mold growing inside of

it. I was going to toss it, but maybe I should keep it for testing.

>

I doubt if mold growing on a toy is going to be typical of the mold

inside your walls, etc. that could be making you sick. My advice is if

you are sick, don't waste time trying to do anything other than get

rid of it. You are responsible for your own health - get rid of the

moisture, then get rid of any mold you can find. In that order.

> Do I just want it tested to rule out stachybotrys? Is that my main reason for

testing? We only have black mold, no other colors.

>

Color is not a way of identifying mold except at a very approximate

level. You say your mold is black. Well, I had stachy that was white.

(And black, and gray...)

**get it out of your home!!!**

> Is tape any more effective than swabs for testing?

>

If you can see it, yes..

> Also, our house doesn't smell musty. Could we still have a big mold problem

even if it isn't musty?

I think you CAN, esp if the mold was there for a long time before you moved in.

Then, you could be in a really bad situation. But we are not there

yet.. (If you clean up all sources of moisture and everything visible

and also address all potentially hidden moisture issues and you still

have a problem.. then you are in the situation I was and there is a

very real chance its not curable without serious and extensive

professional help. (NOTcosmetic cleanup.. which is what many

irresponsible landlords and builders would do.. not addressing the

causes of the mold.. criminally)

That is what happened to many of us.. our homes were very bad and the

usual advice (what I am giving you) didn't do it..

Then.. its time to start testing and ask experts in.. Then the mold is

probably inside the walls and attic and ....

Clean it up.. Assume it is toxic.. behave accordingly..

[Guest guest]

KC,

How did you find out about the gram negative

bacteria?

--- tigerpaw2c <tigerpaw2c@...> wrote:

> Olif,

>

> This is a mistake that alot in the general

> public make, assuming

> that if they don't smell that musty, earthy

> smell they don't have

> mold. Not all contaminated environments have

> that warning sign of

> odor or visable mold. Case in point, this is

> exactly what I dealt

> with with my wife's place employment. There was

> no odor and just a

> couple of water stains on the ceiling and of

> course, they were

> moldy, but no odor. She sat right below an HVAC

> vent and was being

> blasted by mold and bacteria daily. This left a

> black soot like dust

> on everything. Of course no one ever paid much

> attention to it, but

> yet everyone was sick and didn't know why. This

> is where the testing

> of the building was very important and had

> concluded it was mold and

> gram negative bacteria.

[Guest guest]

It was my experience that a HEPA filter helped a lot but because a

HEPA filter IS a FILTER it has to let air through. And in a moldy

building there is a substantial amount of mycotoxins in those tinyest

particles.

Recent research has conclusively proven that these tinyest particles

are often still very toxic and they are also the ones that get down

deepest into your lungs.

This research alsio has shown that some water damaged buildings that

dont show up as having stachy spores.. still have stachy TOXINS that

play HAVOC with a persons body on many levels.. and those toxins can

persist for YEARS after a building has ostentiably been 'cleaned up'.

This is very controversial but - this is what the research says very

conclusively.

Don't trust tests that measure spores to tell you a place is 'clean'.

They can only tell you that a place is moldy, not that it isn't.

Does that make sense? Read it carefully.

[Guest guest]

Elvira,

What type of testing is HUD going to do?

Barb E.

--- elvira52 <Elvira52@...> wrote:

> Why Thank You KC,

>

>

> Thank You Very Much it sure bet the heck out of the

> smell of mold HUD come in tomorrow to test it.

>

> Peace

>

> Elvira

>

>

> [] Re: new member/mold

> questions

> >

> > live simply, please be careful about telling

> people to clean up

> > their mold. it should be tested first dont you

> think so? what

> if it

> > is stachy or other toxic fungi, a hepa mask does

> not protect

> you from

> > mycotoxins. some situations do require

> professional clean up

> and some

> > homes are beyond cleaning up. by telling someone

> to clean it up

> you

> > may be telling them to stir up toxic fungi that

> well make them

> even

> > more ill. you desideing to stay in your moldy

> home does not

> mean

> > everyone should or can. if she is finding a lot

> of evidence of

> > possible past and/or continueing mold growth,

> painted over,

> there is

> > a chance the home had a mold problem prior to

> her buying it

> witch may

> > of had remediation done on it before and its

> coming back. if it

> has

> > had a long term mold problem it may be infested

> into the walls

>

=== message truncated ===

__________________________________________________

[Guest guest]

I agree with you Elvira. I'd rather smell Vinegar any

day of the week, than I would mold. And the smell of

Vinegar doesn't affect me like the smell of mold does.

Barb E.

--- elvira52 <Elvira52@...> wrote:

> That may be true but it sure smell better than mold

> on my budget What can I say I mop with it then leave

> it for a while then mold again. with clear water it

> works, unless like I said I move something it you

> can see it in the toilet Bowl I've been telling my

> Landlord from the first week I moved in.

>

> if you put things on Paper living under HUD, Dammed

> if you do dammed if you don't remember the

> retirement home story I wrote about six months ago

> Kline. well the Media come into the picture they

> clamed they fixed the Problem Miss. Kline has gotten

> much worse the ceiling was coved in mold many

> disable retires live in that building it needs to be

> torn down.

>

> What do you Do!?.

>

> Elvira

>

> [] Re: new member/mold

> questions

>

> live simply, please be careful about telling

> people to clean up

> their mold. it should be tested first dont you

> think so? what if it

> is stachy or other toxic fungi, a hepa mask does

> not protect you from

> mycotoxins. some situations do require

> professional clean up and some

> homes are beyond cleaning up. by telling someone

> to clean it up you

> may be telling them to stir up toxic fungi that

> well make them even

> more ill. you desideing to stay in your moldy home

> does not mean

> everyone should or can. if she is finding a lot of

> evidence of

> possible past and/or continueing mold growth,

> painted over, there is

> a chance the home had a mold problem prior to her

> buying it witch may

> of had remediation done on it before and its

> coming back. if it has

> had a long term mold problem it may be infested

> into the walls and

> cealing joists and no amount of cleaning is going

> to do any good but

> could make her much sicker by trying to clean it

> up. and please be

> careful about saying that mold has to have a

> serious moisture problem

> because that is not true either. stachybotrys can

> and does servive

> drier conditions. think about it. stachy becomes

> dangerous when it

> becomes airborne, it doesn't become airborne until

> it dries.

> mycotoxins attach to the spores and can be

> released everytime it gets

> stirred up.its been tested and found that it

> remains toxic for

> several years even when dry, every single spore

> should be removed,

> thats basically imposible and may be part of the

> reason that

> remediation doesn't always work. unless she wants

> to live with gutted

> out walls to try to keep even one little spore

> from again becomeing

> many. also, I have to wonder where you live and

> what you do in the

> winter when you cant open the windows. I was even

> more exposed in my

> home during winter months because the heating

> system caused those dry

> mold spores to stay stirred up. I would take great

> caution when

> telling someone to clean it up, as your and their

> situation could be

> a lot

> different.

>

>

> > > Hi, I am a new member. I am also new to

> researching mold, and I

> have some questions if someone could please help

> me.

> > >

> > > We moved into an older home 4 years ago.

> Within a couple weeks of

> moving in, we had >mold growing on the 2nd floor

> bathroom ceiling

> (they must have painted to cover it up). >Shortly

> after that, it

> began growing on the walls. It is a black mold,

> but probably not

> *the* >black mold. We have since treated the walls

> with killz, but

> the black mold still grows in the >toilet bowl,

> toothbrush holder,

> etc.

> >

> > Do you have a vent fan in your bathroom ceiling.

> If not, you need to

> > install one now. Mold does not grow that way

> without major humidity

> in

> > the air.

> >

> > >I also didn't make a connection until last

> weekend, but the

> basement

> > walls were also painted, and they left a small

> dehumidifier in the

> > basement.

> > >We run it in the summer, because it does get

> humid down there. We

> > probably need a larger unit, though, because

> this one looks more

> like

> > room-size.

> >

> > What is the humidity like in your area? You may

> simply need more

> > ventilation, like blower fans blowing both into

> and out of your

> > basement. I am not an expert, but I would say,

> yes, perhaps also

> > larger dehumidifiers. if you can't leave the

> windows open...In any

> > case, measure it.. they have relative humidity

> meters - do whatever

> it

> > takes to keep your RH no higher than 55 or 60%.

> Even lower, if

> > possible.

> >

> > >About 6 months ago, we tore out a small piece

> of plaster from the

> > ceiling on the staircase going upstairs (from

> 1st to 2nd floor). I

> > noticed that the wood underneath was black, but

> thought maybe there

> > had been a fire. I am now suspecting that it was

> mold, because the

> > wood didn't look burnt, even though it was

> black.

> > >

> > > About a year ago, I started experiencing

> extreme fatigue. I have

> had it for about 14 months now. I have tried diet

> changes (removing

> food sensitivities), and recently an anti-Candida

> protocol. I also

>

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[Guest guest]

kl_clayton

his atheletes foot,

This is true I know someone with this problem and i tell them to use the

Vinegar.

:-)

Elvira

[] Re: new member/mold questions

I do not tolerate apple cider vinegar, and can get quite sick from eating

vinagrettes, etc.

However, I have used white vinegar to pour on some beautiful, stinky yellow

mushrooms

outside, and it killed them. My husband is using it to get rid of his

atheletes foot. I pour it

down the drain from time to time to clean them, and I also use it in the

laundry some.

I really wish I had known some years back about it killing ear infections, my

kids both had

a terrible time with those.

>

> Leigh,

>

> I'm sorry Leigh, but I'm going to have to disagree with you here to

> a point, depending on what you mean. Internally or externally? I

> think as Carl had mentioned in a previous post, too much or not

> taken correctly no matter what it may be, could be dangerous to your

> health.

>

> I have been using white vinegar now for the last 5 years, for all

> sorts of things not just cleaning. As a disinfectant this works alot

> better than bleach. It does kill mold (not the mycotoxins) if left

> to absorb enough to get to the roots. It will not whiten like

> bleach, but that can be use later if necessary, which is toxic in

> itself.

>

> As far as the use of white vinegar externally, for skin ailments,

> such as rashes, minor abrasions, areas of dry skin it is a great

> antifungal, antibacterial. Please notice I said white vinegar, not

> apple cider or wine vinegar, because those two alone have much more

> fermentation going on. I've seen the results of the use of white

> vinegar firsthand on these type of ailments along with nail fungus

> (hand or foot) and this is after the use of years of sporanox that

> did not work on this type of fungus. The reason why it works is

> because it is very low on the ph scale and mold will not grow in a

> low ph. I've also used it on my grandchild, nephews of which had ear

> infections from the time they were born and also a deep ear wax

> problem. One treatment of straight white vinegar into the ear

> elevated any infection and now the parents use it as a preventative

> and not had an ear infection since. The seven year old also had an

> ear wax buidup, which it pushed out to the opening where the parents

> could grab it. It changed the kids personality from night to day. I

> do not recommend this if you have had tubes put in the ears. I am

> not a doctor...

>

> Most ear infections are caused by aspergillus niger. Coaches are now

> starting to recommend to their swim teams to use white vinegar after

> practice or a meet. Some doctors are now starting to recommend this

> too. Normal treatment for this is antibodics or steroids and you how

> well that works with a fungal infection, it doesn't.

>

> Internally because it is very acidic I would use it very sparingly.

> I would be afraid that it would low your ph, which is not good. You

> don't want to lower your ph, you want to keep that in a normal range

> 7.0. But on top of everything else I think that's the least of my

> worries. I know know some professionals that are using 2 tablespoons

> a day, that did not believe in the beginning. They are using it for

> counteract their acid reflux and cramping. In case most of you are

> not aware, acid reflux I am finding a high percentage of the time,

> especially in people like yourself, IS NOT from too much acid. It's

> just the opposite, not enough. This is what I also found in my wife.

> The medication that is normally recommended is Nexium, the little

> purple pill, which is an azole, an antifungal. Now why would they be

> giving you an antifungal for acid reflux?

>

> So again, what may not be good for one, may work for others. Please

> don't rule it out, I've seen the results.

>

> KC

>