Re: Easy To Beat Up On Public Schools

[Guest guest]

I am happy to take your challenge. I am homeschooling my son, and I think I

am doing a better job than any PCPD program that I have observed.

My son needs a one-on-one attention, instruction, and supervision. I am not

willing at this point to spend my time, energy, health, and money to fight

with the school system and its beaurocracy, time line and silly rules to get

decent education and care for my child. I'd say give me back my tax dollars

and I will choose how to spend it to care and educate for own my son the way

I want to.

Easy To Beat Up On Public Schools

> I am very suspicious of anyone that works so hard to try and make

> the public school look bad. I know a lot a parents keep saying they

> could do so much better than the public schools. " Give me vouchers

> and I can do better at a Private School " . None of those private

> schools have to accept your child. If the movement to drain money

> from the public schools with vouchers is successful, then the only

> kids that will be left in the public schools or Special Needs Kids

> and other Kids the Private Schools will not accept. So you end up

> with with schools that have to suppply more expensive services with

> less money.

>

> I have worked with government budgets and unlike private business,

> there are very strict rules on what different fund lines can be used

> for. We call it different pots of money. Most of the time it is a

> violation of federal law(I mean a person can go to jail, for mixing

> those pots of money. So an administrator can see $500,000 where it

> is not needed and $0 in an account where there is tremendous need.

> That $500,000 has to be returned at the end of the fiscal year

> because it was ear marked for condition the school could not meet.

> So anyone making a BIG DEAL of funding being returned without

> explaining the reason the funds were returned is more interetsted in

> a sensational story than the truth.

>

> Is every dime used they way it should be to produce the best

> results? It depends on whether you are happy with how your child is

> doing.

>

> Are there bad teachers and administrators? Of course there are.

> Just like there are bad Policeman, bad Doctors...etc. The greatest

> majotity of teachers and administrators do what they do because they

> love kids. Many of them take money out of their own pocket to buy

> supplies and items they need for their kids. They have trouble

> sleeping at night because they know a child in thier class has very

> serious problems at home.

>

> I apologize, but I get so sick and tired of people attacking the

> public schools.

>

> I issue a challange to anyone who feels that our public schools are

> horrible. Become a teacher or a teacher's aid. I am willing to bet

> that most of the people that are the most critical would not last a

> month in the classroom and are more concerned about a political

> agenda than the welfare of our kids.

>

>

>

> Unlocking Autism

> www.UnlockingAutism.org

>

> Autism-Awareness-Action

> Worldwide internet group for parents who have a

> child with AUTISM.

>

> SeekingJoyinDisability - Prayer support for those touched by Disability:

> SeekingJoyinDisability/

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

I am happy to take your challenge. I am homeschooling my son, and I think I

am doing a better job than any PCPD program that I have observed.

My son needs a one-on-one attention, instruction, and supervision. I am not

willing at this point to spend my time, energy, health, and money to fight

with the school system and its beaurocracy, time line and silly rules to get

decent education and care for my child. I'd say give me back my tax dollars

and I will choose how to spend it to care and educate for own my son the way

I want to.

Easy To Beat Up On Public Schools

> I am very suspicious of anyone that works so hard to try and make

> the public school look bad. I know a lot a parents keep saying they

> could do so much better than the public schools. " Give me vouchers

> and I can do better at a Private School " . None of those private

> schools have to accept your child. If the movement to drain money

> from the public schools with vouchers is successful, then the only

> kids that will be left in the public schools or Special Needs Kids

> and other Kids the Private Schools will not accept. So you end up

> with with schools that have to suppply more expensive services with

> less money.

>

> I have worked with government budgets and unlike private business,

> there are very strict rules on what different fund lines can be used

> for. We call it different pots of money. Most of the time it is a

> violation of federal law(I mean a person can go to jail, for mixing

> those pots of money. So an administrator can see $500,000 where it

> is not needed and $0 in an account where there is tremendous need.

> That $500,000 has to be returned at the end of the fiscal year

> because it was ear marked for condition the school could not meet.

> So anyone making a BIG DEAL of funding being returned without

> explaining the reason the funds were returned is more interetsted in

> a sensational story than the truth.

>

> Is every dime used they way it should be to produce the best

> results? It depends on whether you are happy with how your child is

> doing.

>

> Are there bad teachers and administrators? Of course there are.

> Just like there are bad Policeman, bad Doctors...etc. The greatest

> majotity of teachers and administrators do what they do because they

> love kids. Many of them take money out of their own pocket to buy

> supplies and items they need for their kids. They have trouble

> sleeping at night because they know a child in thier class has very

> serious problems at home.

>

> I apologize, but I get so sick and tired of people attacking the

> public schools.

>

> I issue a challange to anyone who feels that our public schools are

> horrible. Become a teacher or a teacher's aid. I am willing to bet

> that most of the people that are the most critical would not last a

> month in the classroom and are more concerned about a political

> agenda than the welfare of our kids.

>

>

>

> Unlocking Autism

> www.UnlockingAutism.org

>

> Autism-Awareness-Action

> Worldwide internet group for parents who have a

> child with AUTISM.

>

> SeekingJoyinDisability - Prayer support for those touched by Disability:

> SeekingJoyinDisability/

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Mt challange was not to take your One child out of school and teach him at

home. My challange is to teach in the public school where you have to deal

with all of the problems associated with meeting all of the requirements of all

of the rules and regulation such as No Child Left Behind.

I commend anyone who wants to home school, but that is a completly different

set of issues. We ran a Lovaas program from home for two years.

Believe me we have had serious fights with our School and our Doctors trying

to get everything we need for our son.

My question to youis what purpose is served my constantly being critical of

the public schools.

Of course we have to fight to ge the best services e can for our children.

My disagrement is with idividuals that make statements the all public schools

are bad, and we they arebad because of the teacher unions.

[Guest guest]

Mt challange was not to take your One child out of school and teach him at

home. My challange is to teach in the public school where you have to deal

with all of the problems associated with meeting all of the requirements of all

of the rules and regulation such as No Child Left Behind.

I commend anyone who wants to home school, but that is a completly different

set of issues. We ran a Lovaas program from home for two years.

Believe me we have had serious fights with our School and our Doctors trying

to get everything we need for our son.

My question to youis what purpose is served my constantly being critical of

the public schools.

Of course we have to fight to ge the best services e can for our children.

My disagrement is with idividuals that make statements the all public schools

are bad, and we they arebad because of the teacher unions.

[Guest guest]

Nothing is going to improve until all of us realize the change starts with

US. Ask yourself what I can do to improve the public schools. Not what they

need, or the State should do. What does and need to do. Until

you can answer that question, do not expect anything to improve. Stopping the

conversation is not going to resolve it either.

[Guest guest]

I totally agree with . We have been forced to homeschool because of the

HORRIBLE situation in public schools here in Lake . We are not alone

either. I would love to have my tax dollars spent on what is right for my

child. I would NEVER be a special ed teacher or aid in this state because I

know for a fact that teachers are not allowed to even speak their minds

about what they feel is right for our kids. I am a humanitarian advocate

and could not become a robot that the schools force our teachers into being.

Enough said, our schools are HORRIBLE in my opinion. Enough on this

subject.

Re: Easy To Beat Up On Public Schools

I am happy to take your challenge. I am homeschooling my son, and I think I

am doing a better job than any PCPD program that I have observed.

My son needs a one-on-one attention, instruction, and supervision. I am not

willing at this point to spend my time, energy, health, and money to fight

with the school system and its beaurocracy, time line and silly rules to get

decent education and care for my child. I'd say give me back my tax dollars

and I will choose how to spend it to care and educate for own my son the way

I want to.

Easy To Beat Up On Public Schools

> I am very suspicious of anyone that works so hard to try and make

> the public school look bad. I know a lot a parents keep saying they

> could do so much better than the public schools. " Give me vouchers

> and I can do better at a Private School " . None of those private

> schools have to accept your child. If the movement to drain money

> from the public schools with vouchers is successful, then the only

> kids that will be left in the public schools or Special Needs Kids

> and other Kids the Private Schools will not accept. So you end up

> with with schools that have to suppply more expensive services with

> less money.

>

> I have worked with government budgets and unlike private business,

> there are very strict rules on what different fund lines can be used

> for. We call it different pots of money. Most of the time it is a

> violation of federal law(I mean a person can go to jail, for mixing

> those pots of money. So an administrator can see $500,000 where it

> is not needed and $0 in an account where there is tremendous need.

> That $500,000 has to be returned at the end of the fiscal year because

> it was ear marked for condition the school could not meet. So anyone

> making a BIG DEAL of funding being returned without explaining the

> reason the funds were returned is more interetsted in a sensational

> story than the truth.

>

> Is every dime used they way it should be to produce the best

> results? It depends on whether you are happy with how your child is

> doing.

>

> Are there bad teachers and administrators? Of course there are.

> Just like there are bad Policeman, bad Doctors...etc. The greatest

> majotity of teachers and administrators do what they do because they

> love kids. Many of them take money out of their own pocket to buy

> supplies and items they need for their kids. They have trouble

> sleeping at night because they know a child in thier class has very

> serious problems at home.

>

> I apologize, but I get so sick and tired of people attacking the

> public schools.

>

> I issue a challange to anyone who feels that our public schools are

> horrible. Become a teacher or a teacher's aid. I am willing to bet

> that most of the people that are the most critical would not last a

> month in the classroom and are more concerned about a political agenda

> than the welfare of our kids.

>

>

>

> Unlocking Autism

> www.UnlockingAutism.org

>

> Autism-Awareness-Action

> Worldwide internet group for parents who have a

> child with AUTISM.

>

> SeekingJoyinDisability - Prayer support for those touched by

> Disability:

> SeekingJoyinDisability/

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

You are welcome. Great to hear your son is doing well.

[Guest guest]

I am so so glad you said this!! I too am so sick and tired of hearing

parents bash our public schools. There are always a few people on

this list who are always encouraging other parents of getting out of

Texas because we supposedly have the worst schools for kids on the

spectrum. When I defended our public school system, I was accused of

being happy because I don't expect much for my son!I've learned to

just ignore and delete the messages of these few parents. My son is

in a public school and has 1:1 all day. He has made so much progress

this last year. I can't say enough about his program and teachers.

They are all wonderful. So not all public schools are bad!

Chris

-- In Autism Treatment , " midasgoal "

<MidasGoal@a...> wrote:

> I am very suspicious of anyone that works so hard to try and

make

> the public school look bad. I know a lot a parents keep saying

they

> could do so much better than the public schools. " Give me vouchers

> and I can do better at a Private School " . None of those private

> schools have to accept your child. If the movement to drain money

> from the public schools with vouchers is successful, then the only

> kids that will be left in the public schools or Special Needs Kids

> and other Kids the Private Schools will not accept. So you end up

> with with schools that have to suppply more expensive services with

> less money.

>

> I have worked with government budgets and unlike private

business,

> there are very strict rules on what different fund lines can be

used

> for. We call it different pots of money. Most of the time it is

a

> violation of federal law(I mean a person can go to jail, for mixing

> those pots of money. So an administrator can see $500,000 where

it

> is not needed and $0 in an account where there is tremendous need.

> That $500,000 has to be returned at the end of the fiscal year

> because it was ear marked for condition the school could not meet.

> So anyone making a BIG DEAL of funding being returned without

> explaining the reason the funds were returned is more interetsted

in

> a sensational story than the truth.

>

> Is every dime used they way it should be to produce the best

> results? It depends on whether you are happy with how your child

is

> doing.

>

> Are there bad teachers and administrators? Of course there are.

> Just like there are bad Policeman, bad Doctors...etc. The greatest

> majotity of teachers and administrators do what they do because

they

> love kids. Many of them take money out of their own pocket to buy

> supplies and items they need for their kids. They have trouble

> sleeping at night because they know a child in thier class has very

> serious problems at home.

>

> I apologize, but I get so sick and tired of people attacking the

> public schools.

>

> I issue a challange to anyone who feels that our public schools

are

> horrible. Become a teacher or a teacher's aid. I am willing to bet

> that most of the people that are the most critical would not last a

> month in the classroom and are more concerned about a political

> agenda than the welfare of our kids.

[Guest guest]

I am so so glad you said this!! I too am so sick and tired of hearing

parents bash our public schools. There are always a few people on

this list who are always encouraging other parents of getting out of

Texas because we supposedly have the worst schools for kids on the

spectrum. When I defended our public school system, I was accused of

being happy because I don't expect much for my son!I've learned to

just ignore and delete the messages of these few parents. My son is

in a public school and has 1:1 all day. He has made so much progress

this last year. I can't say enough about his program and teachers.

They are all wonderful. So not all public schools are bad!

Chris

-- In Autism Treatment , " midasgoal "

<MidasGoal@a...> wrote:

> I am very suspicious of anyone that works so hard to try and

make

> the public school look bad. I know a lot a parents keep saying

they

> could do so much better than the public schools. " Give me vouchers

> and I can do better at a Private School " . None of those private

> schools have to accept your child. If the movement to drain money

> from the public schools with vouchers is successful, then the only

> kids that will be left in the public schools or Special Needs Kids

> and other Kids the Private Schools will not accept. So you end up

> with with schools that have to suppply more expensive services with

> less money.

>

> I have worked with government budgets and unlike private

business,

> there are very strict rules on what different fund lines can be

used

> for. We call it different pots of money. Most of the time it is

a

> violation of federal law(I mean a person can go to jail, for mixing

> those pots of money. So an administrator can see $500,000 where

it

> is not needed and $0 in an account where there is tremendous need.

> That $500,000 has to be returned at the end of the fiscal year

> because it was ear marked for condition the school could not meet.

> So anyone making a BIG DEAL of funding being returned without

> explaining the reason the funds were returned is more interetsted

in

> a sensational story than the truth.

>

> Is every dime used they way it should be to produce the best

> results? It depends on whether you are happy with how your child

is

> doing.

>

> Are there bad teachers and administrators? Of course there are.

> Just like there are bad Policeman, bad Doctors...etc. The greatest

> majotity of teachers and administrators do what they do because

they

> love kids. Many of them take money out of their own pocket to buy

> supplies and items they need for their kids. They have trouble

> sleeping at night because they know a child in thier class has very

> serious problems at home.

>

> I apologize, but I get so sick and tired of people attacking the

> public schools.

>

> I issue a challange to anyone who feels that our public schools

are

> horrible. Become a teacher or a teacher's aid. I am willing to bet

> that most of the people that are the most critical would not last a

> month in the classroom and are more concerned about a political

> agenda than the welfare of our kids.

[Guest guest]

It is easy to take your challenge as I have had my child out of

school for 11/2 years now. He had agressive and self injurious

behaviors and no communication skills. He could open doors and drink

from a cup. That was what he mastered in six years at school.

After a year and a half this child's behaviors are under control. He

is communicating, doing academics and is not allowed to sit in a

corner and stim. He is also not having to come home upset with

bruises all over him because the trained professionals did not know

how to manage his behaviors.

[Guest guest]

This is another with the same concerns. That makes two s now.

Re: Easy To Beat Up On Public Schools

It is easy to take your challenge as I have had my child out of

school for 11/2 years now. He had agressive and self injurious

behaviors and no communication skills. He could open doors and drink

from a cup. That was what he mastered in six years at school.

After a year and a half this child's behaviors are under control. He

is communicating, doing academics and is not allowed to sit in a

corner and stim. He is also not having to come home upset with

bruises all over him because the trained professionals did not know

how to manage his behaviors.

[Guest guest]

,

Thank you for speaking up so well on this subject!! I know I have

made comments on this list about GOOD things about my children and

their school, OH, not to have people EXCITED but rather to have

people NAY say!! Shame on that attitute!!!

I am basically a homeschooler at heart - I have homeschooled for 18

years now - I finally put my two ASD boys in public school just

because of sheer exhaustion. I have my problems with the PS, also,

some for different reasons - BUT what I can say GOOD about my sons'

school is this:

1) the special ed department at this elementary school CARE about my

boys - which is more than I have found in churches and in my own

family. One TA gushes about how is her favorite.

2) the rest of the school is learning to deal with and accept special

kids without making fun of them

3) My sons look forward to school EVERY day - the bus ride, being

with kids and LEARNING

4) my kids are treated well!

5) and the staff is DEDICATED and this is their VOCATION - their

hearts and soul are in there EVERY day.

Because I have a homeschool heart, I don't EXPECT the school to do

everything - my kids are MY responsibility - I don't have any DESIRE

to make the school an enemy - IF I decide at some point that they

would be better served at home, to home they will come. What good

comes of making the school your enemy?

Come on people - let's rejoice when there is something to rejoice and

encourange where needed - don't come down ALL the time. Work towards

change and improvement in a positive way - but we have NOTHING to

gain by attacking each other. Hey, we're all in this TOGETHER!!

Thanks and blessings

Connie

> Nothing is going to improve until all of us realize the change

starts with

> US. Ask yourself what I can do to improve the public schools.

Not what they

> need, or the State should do. What does and need to

do. Until

> you can answer that question, do not expect anything to improve.

Stopping the

> conversation is not going to resolve it either.

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Hi . You make an important point. Without involvement by families,

schools have no incentive to change what they are doing. It's critical

that we keep pressure on school districts (1) to develop programs that

make a difference and (2) to provide the resources to make sure our

kids' IEP goals are being met.

That said, we pulled our child out of public school last week. My

husband and I have been extremely involved in effecting change in our

school district, but honestly, it takes a TON of effort, work, and time.

Our little guy is growing up fast, and pretty soon he's going to be

heading to elementary school. We don't have the TIME to wait for our

school district to get its act together. We need to make sure he is

getting effective early intervention right now.

In the meanwhile, we are paying through the nose for a private ABA-based

school. We could certainly help push our district towards developing

ABA-based programs by going to due-process to seek reimbursement for the

private program, but Texas hearing officers have tended to rule

conservatively on these cases. The cost of going to due process without

a fairly strong assurance of success makes it difficult for families to

be able to exert that type of pressure on their school districts. Texas

is far behind other states in programming for ASD kids. There's

certainly room for improvement at the state level, and we need to work

at that level, as well in our individual schools, to bring up the

quality of services for kids with autism across the state.

Geraldine

Re: Easy To Beat Up On Public Schools

Nothing is going to improve until all of us realize the change starts

with

US. Ask yourself what I can do to improve the public schools. Not

what they

need, or the State should do. What does and need to do.

Until

you can answer that question, do not expect anything to improve.

Stopping the

conversation is not going to resolve it either.

[Guest guest]

Hi . You make an important point. Without involvement by families,

schools have no incentive to change what they are doing. It's critical

that we keep pressure on school districts (1) to develop programs that

make a difference and (2) to provide the resources to make sure our

kids' IEP goals are being met.

That said, we pulled our child out of public school last week. My

husband and I have been extremely involved in effecting change in our

school district, but honestly, it takes a TON of effort, work, and time.

Our little guy is growing up fast, and pretty soon he's going to be

heading to elementary school. We don't have the TIME to wait for our

school district to get its act together. We need to make sure he is

getting effective early intervention right now.

In the meanwhile, we are paying through the nose for a private ABA-based

school. We could certainly help push our district towards developing

ABA-based programs by going to due-process to seek reimbursement for the

private program, but Texas hearing officers have tended to rule

conservatively on these cases. The cost of going to due process without

a fairly strong assurance of success makes it difficult for families to

be able to exert that type of pressure on their school districts. Texas

is far behind other states in programming for ASD kids. There's

certainly room for improvement at the state level, and we need to work

at that level, as well in our individual schools, to bring up the

quality of services for kids with autism across the state.

Geraldine

Re: Easy To Beat Up On Public Schools

Nothing is going to improve until all of us realize the change starts

with

US. Ask yourself what I can do to improve the public schools. Not

what they

need, or the State should do. What does and need to do.

Until

you can answer that question, do not expect anything to improve.

Stopping the

conversation is not going to resolve it either.

[Guest guest]

I will also take up your challenge. My husband is a public school teacher,

and I taught public ed. for 4 years before my son was born. We are actually

big supporters of public ed. but we also know the limitations and problems in

public school. My son was in the wrong program for 3 years before I could

convince them to move him to an appropriate placement. Basically, he made NO

progress for 3 years. That is inexcusable for ANY school.

I am currently getting my masters in Special Ed./Autism Intervention. I want

to help change the system from within. I understand that politics,

unfortunately, plays a big part in what happens with each child. I also

understand

that it is going to take someone who can speak for the children behind the

scenes. I know what it feels like to be a mom of an autistic child and what it

feels like to be a teacher. Both are hard jobs, but teachers get to go home at

night.

[Guest guest]

I will also take up your challenge. My husband is a public school teacher,

and I taught public ed. for 4 years before my son was born. We are actually

big supporters of public ed. but we also know the limitations and problems in

public school. My son was in the wrong program for 3 years before I could

convince them to move him to an appropriate placement. Basically, he made NO

progress for 3 years. That is inexcusable for ANY school.

I am currently getting my masters in Special Ed./Autism Intervention. I want

to help change the system from within. I understand that politics,

unfortunately, plays a big part in what happens with each child. I also

understand

that it is going to take someone who can speak for the children behind the

scenes. I know what it feels like to be a mom of an autistic child and what it

feels like to be a teacher. Both are hard jobs, but teachers get to go home at

night.

[Guest guest]

I've been reading the different posts on this subject this past week and think

that the overriding point to all of this is: All of us are DEDICATED parents

who want the BEST education for our kids--either within the classroom or by

homeschooling. Those parents who are truly happy with their school programs

should never be made to feel that its only because their expectations are not

high enough. On the other hand, it should never be assumed that those who have

chosen to homeschool didn't put forth the effort to make changes in their

program and/or are just in the business of attacking the school system. All

of our experiences are different and some schools are easier to work with than

others. Then there are those people who are fortunate enough to have great

programs without having to beg for it! I think the bottom line here is that

when people are moving to Texas and inquiring about where the good schools

are--they should never hear a blanket statement telling them to " run for the

hills " and stay away from Texas. Some people (depending on their job situation)

don't even have that option to not take the better job opportunity, but that

aside...what I think we need to do when asked is for those who have had horrible

experiences, please let these people know some specifics about the negative

aspects of your district or any other district or school in your area but then

leave it at that. Those who have something good to share about their schools

should do the same. I know, based on my own experiences within my district,

that even the schools WITHIN MY DISTRICT vary dramatically as far as the

quality of their programs. After talking with people in other states about their

programs, I believe this is the case everywhere.

I think we should stop pecking away at each other and instead, acknowledge all

the common love that we ALL share for our kids that drives us to fight hard for

good programs or to have the nerve to homeschool to give our kids what they need

when the schools refuse to offer it. I have the ultimate respect for parents in

both categories!!

a

[Guest guest]

Mam,

First of all, if you are going to make statements like you have made and

issue challenges like you have done, have the courage to at least sign your

name at the end and identify who you are. To not identify who you are when

making inflammatory remarks is rather chicken. You are very misguided and

completely one sided in your understanding of the problem.

The reason people beat up on the schools is that the schools give us reason

to do so. In our battle with the school district, (about 3 years ago) when

I first visited the school's PPCD program, I was taken on a tour; when we

entered the Activity room (kids supposed to be working on Gross Motor

skills) and found the two teachers at the back of the room chatting, sitting

down,... they promptly stood up and looked busy as we entered the room.

They obviously were not working with the kids, but merely " babysitting "

them. I mention this story because it is so typical of the attitude of the

whole system in Texas for Special Needs kids, just baby-sit them, don't

expect anything out of them. (as to what they SHOULD have been doing, they

SHOULD have been actively using playtime for therapy and learning).

As if we needed anymore proof, a couple months later, the ISD lawyer told

OUR lawyer in private conversation, " , (not his real name) don't you

understand, these children aren't CAPABLE of making progress,.... they have

AUTISM. "

I am sure you do object to voucher programs (and I can only infer from your

experience you quote that you are affiliated with an ISD in some way, since

you did not explicitly identify your name or occupation). School districts,

and their personnel do not want to HAVE to compete. They don't want to lose

their monopoly on the public dollars allocated for Education. If they were

forced to compete, they might have to get up off their rear ends and show

RESULTS (rather than take a break and chat at the back of the room while the

Special Ed kids play).

People are going to do what works. The reason many parents, (including

myself) end up sending their child (with Autism) to private schools, and

combining it with home therapy is BECAUSE IT WORKS. Their are even

newslists dedicated to " Recovered Kids " . I read ALOT of newsposts on 15

different newslists on a fairly regular basis, all related to Autism. I

have NEVER, repeat NEVER, read a post from someone that said they had a

child diagnosed with severe Autism, and yet they put their faith in the ISD

,... and the result was that the ISD " recovered " their child. Has it ever

happened? Possibly, I rarely believe in absolutes, so don't misunderstand

that I am saying it NEVER happens. I am just saying that it is obviously so

rare an occurrence that I have never read a newspost saying that. But, I

constantly read newsposts from parents that say they didn't see progress in

their child until THEY actively assumed responsibility and direction of

their child's treatment and education (usually backed up by placement test

score results).

I doubt many parents like me really PREFER to send their child to private

school, we do so only because the only other choice is to see your child

fall behind each year and not make progress. I am sure many parents would

be happy with and accept just to have our school district work WITH us in a

combined program of treatment, using the latest promising treatment

techniques, even if it is just to the limit of their resources

available,.... Instead, our experience has been that the administrators and

counselors were so woefully ignorant of current research and treatment

methodologies, that they would ask us how to spell words for them that they

had never heard before like " Gluten Free " . If these administrators,

counselors and diagnosticians really cared as much as you assert, don't you

think they would care enough to at least stay current with CONCEPTS related

to treating kids with Autism? How can anyone make fair, informed decisions

about children and what is best for them when they don't even know how to

spell the current terminology?

As for your challenge, I have 6 years of experience, (12 months a year) in

the classroom as a teacher; My wife has 9 years experience as an elementary

teacher. So we have walked in the shoes of BOTH sides. And I recognize

that there are SOME good, caring teachers and administrators in Texas that

are hamstrung by the system they work in. Do not infer from this post that

I am saying ALL teachers, or administrators are lousy or lazy. But most

posts I read where people are " ...beating up on public schools... " as you

say, ... people are beating up the SCHOOLS and the SYSTEM, not so often or

as much against the teachers themselves. Your attempt at defending the

SYSTEM with reference to the " archetypal " teacher that pays for school

supplies for her students, ... is a cheap rhetorical device to support your

argument. But it is irrelevant to whether the school systems in Texas are

meeting the needs of kids with Autism and other disabilities.

I will close with a challenge to you; find a family with a child with SEVERE

Autism, one that does not speak or communicate in any way. A child that is

still in diapers and smears their feces on things when not watched

constantly, a child that beats their head on the floor in frustration. Care

for this child YOURSELF for a month, then go to an ARD meeting and

experience having an administrator tell you, " We are sorry, but your child

has Autism, ... he isn't CAPABLE of making any progress. " Then you will

just begin to grasp the experience of parents that feel the way they do

about schools in Texas.

Sincerely,

J. Reirdon

P.S.

The school district said my son was not capable of making progress,.... yet

he went from being Non-verbal and incommunicative,... to speaking and

achieved 20 months of grade gain in 10 calendar months with a home based ABA

program. He is today in Kindergarten with typical functioning peers and

will start 1st grade next year with typical functioning peers (private

school, smaller class size, but no aides or supports needed in the class

room for him, even now). So YES, we, and many parents like us, CAN and

DO,..... do a better job.

Granted, we had backgrounds in teaching, but there are MANY, MANY parents

with no backgrounds in teaching that have done and are now doing the same

thing. I know, because I am privileged to be friends with many parents like

us, fighting for a chance for their child to recover (or at least become

self sufficient), and learning and implementing treatment plans towards this

goal.

Easy To Beat Up On Public Schools

>> I am very suspicious of anyone that works so hard to try and make

>> the public school look bad. I know a lot a parents keep saying they

>> could do so much better than the public schools. " Give me vouchers

>> and I can do better at a Private School " . None of those private

>> schools have to accept your child. If the movement to drain money

>> from the public schools with vouchers is successful, then the only

>> kids that will be left in the public schools or Special Needs Kids

>> and other Kids the Private Schools will not accept. So you end up

>> with with schools that have to suppply more expensive services with

>> less money.

>>

>> I have worked with government budgets and unlike private business,

>> there are very strict rules on what different fund lines can be used

>> for. We call it different pots of money. Most of the time it is a

>> violation of federal law(I mean a person can go to jail, for mixing

>> those pots of money. So an administrator can see $500,000 where it

>> is not needed and $0 in an account where there is tremendous need.

>> That $500,000 has to be returned at the end of the fiscal year because

>> it was ear marked for condition the school could not meet. So anyone

>> making a BIG DEAL of funding being returned without explaining the

>> reason the funds were returned is more interetsted in a sensational

>> story than the truth.

>>

>> Is every dime used they way it should be to produce the best

>> results? It depends on whether you are happy with how your child is

>> doing.

>>

>> Are there bad teachers and administrators? Of course there are.

>> Just like there are bad Policeman, bad Doctors...etc. The greatest

>> majotity of teachers and administrators do what they do because they

>> love kids. Many of them take money out of their own pocket to buy

>> supplies and items they need for their kids. They have trouble

>> sleeping at night because they know a child in thier class has very

>> serious problems at home.

>>

>> I apologize, but I get so sick and tired of people attacking the

>> public schools.

>>

>> I issue a challange to anyone who feels that our public schools are

>> horrible. Become a teacher or a teacher's aid. I am willing to bet

>> that most of the people that are the most critical would not last a

>> month in the classroom and are more concerned about a political agenda

>> than the welfare of our kids.

>>

>>

>>

>> Unlocking Autism

>> www.UnlockingAutism.org

[Guest guest]

Can I buy you coffee? This made me smile. Thank you. Liz.

On 2/16/04 12:09 PM, " Reirdon, J. " <jreirdon@...> wrote:

> Mam,

>

> First of all, if you are going to make statements like you have made and

> issue challenges like you have done, have the courage to at least sign your

> name at the end and identify who you are. To not identify who you are when

> making inflammatory remarks is rather chicken. You are very misguided and

> completely one sided in your understanding of the problem.

>

> The reason people beat up on the schools is that the schools give us reason

> to do so. In our battle with the school district, (about 3 years ago) when

> I first visited the school's PPCD program, I was taken on a tour; when we

> entered the Activity room (kids supposed to be working on Gross Motor

> skills) and found the two teachers at the back of the room chatting, sitting

> down,... they promptly stood up and looked busy as we entered the room.

> They obviously were not working with the kids, but merely " babysitting "

> them. I mention this story because it is so typical of the attitude of the

> whole system in Texas for Special Needs kids, just baby-sit them, don't

> expect anything out of them. (as to what they SHOULD have been doing, they

> SHOULD have been actively using playtime for therapy and learning).

>

> As if we needed anymore proof, a couple months later, the ISD lawyer told

> OUR lawyer in private conversation, " , (not his real name) don't you

> understand, these children aren't CAPABLE of making progress,.... they have

> AUTISM. "

>

> I am sure you do object to voucher programs (and I can only infer from your

> experience you quote that you are affiliated with an ISD in some way, since

> you did not explicitly identify your name or occupation). School districts,

> and their personnel do not want to HAVE to compete. They don't want to lose

> their monopoly on the public dollars allocated for Education. If they were

> forced to compete, they might have to get up off their rear ends and show

> RESULTS (rather than take a break and chat at the back of the room while the

> Special Ed kids play).

>

> People are going to do what works. The reason many parents, (including

> myself) end up sending their child (with Autism) to private schools, and

> combining it with home therapy is BECAUSE IT WORKS. Their are even

> newslists dedicated to " Recovered Kids " . I read ALOT of newsposts on 15

> different newslists on a fairly regular basis, all related to Autism. I

> have NEVER, repeat NEVER, read a post from someone that said they had a

> child diagnosed with severe Autism, and yet they put their faith in the ISD

> ,... and the result was that the ISD " recovered " their child. Has it ever

> happened? Possibly, I rarely believe in absolutes, so don't misunderstand

> that I am saying it NEVER happens. I am just saying that it is obviously so

> rare an occurrence that I have never read a newspost saying that. But, I

> constantly read newsposts from parents that say they didn't see progress in

> their child until THEY actively assumed responsibility and direction of

> their child's treatment and education (usually backed up by placement test

> score results).

>

> I doubt many parents like me really PREFER to send their child to private

> school, we do so only because the only other choice is to see your child

> fall behind each year and not make progress. I am sure many parents would

> be happy with and accept just to have our school district work WITH us in a

> combined program of treatment, using the latest promising treatment

> techniques, even if it is just to the limit of their resources

> available,.... Instead, our experience has been that the administrators and

> counselors were so woefully ignorant of current research and treatment

> methodologies, that they would ask us how to spell words for them that they

> had never heard before like " Gluten Free " . If these administrators,

> counselors and diagnosticians really cared as much as you assert, don't you

> think they would care enough to at least stay current with CONCEPTS related

> to treating kids with Autism? How can anyone make fair, informed decisions

> about children and what is best for them when they don't even know how to

> spell the current terminology?

>

> As for your challenge, I have 6 years of experience, (12 months a year) in

> the classroom as a teacher; My wife has 9 years experience as an elementary

> teacher. So we have walked in the shoes of BOTH sides. And I recognize

> that there are SOME good, caring teachers and administrators in Texas that

> are hamstrung by the system they work in. Do not infer from this post that

> I am saying ALL teachers, or administrators are lousy or lazy. But most

> posts I read where people are " ...beating up on public schools... " as you

> say, ... people are beating up the SCHOOLS and the SYSTEM, not so often or

> as much against the teachers themselves. Your attempt at defending the

> SYSTEM with reference to the " archetypal " teacher that pays for school

> supplies for her students, ... is a cheap rhetorical device to support your

> argument. But it is irrelevant to whether the school systems in Texas are

> meeting the needs of kids with Autism and other disabilities.

>

> I will close with a challenge to you; find a family with a child with SEVERE

> Autism, one that does not speak or communicate in any way. A child that is

> still in diapers and smears their feces on things when not watched

> constantly, a child that beats their head on the floor in frustration. Care

> for this child YOURSELF for a month, then go to an ARD meeting and

> experience having an administrator tell you, " We are sorry, but your child

> has Autism, ... he isn't CAPABLE of making any progress. " Then you will

> just begin to grasp the experience of parents that feel the way they do

> about schools in Texas.

>

> Sincerely,

> J. Reirdon

>

> P.S.

> The school district said my son was not capable of making progress,.... yet

> he went from being Non-verbal and incommunicative,... to speaking and

> achieved 20 months of grade gain in 10 calendar months with a home based ABA

> program. He is today in Kindergarten with typical functioning peers and

> will start 1st grade next year with typical functioning peers (private

> school, smaller class size, but no aides or supports needed in the class

> room for him, even now). So YES, we, and many parents like us, CAN and

> DO,..... do a better job.

>

> Granted, we had backgrounds in teaching, but there are MANY, MANY parents

> with no backgrounds in teaching that have done and are now doing the same

> thing. I know, because I am privileged to be friends with many parents like

> us, fighting for a chance for their child to recover (or at least become

> self sufficient), and learning and implementing treatment plans towards this

> goal.

>

>

> Easy To Beat Up On Public Schools

>

>

>

>>> >> I am very suspicious of anyone that works so hard to try and make

>>> >> the public school look bad. I know a lot a parents keep saying they

>>> >> could do so much better than the public schools. " Give me vouchers

>>> >> and I can do better at a Private School " . None of those private

>>> >> schools have to accept your child. If the movement to drain money

>>> >> from the public schools with vouchers is successful, then the only

>>> >> kids that will be left in the public schools or Special Needs Kids

>>> >> and other Kids the Private Schools will not accept. So you end up

>>> >> with with schools that have to suppply more expensive services with

>>> >> less money.

>>> >>

>>> >> I have worked with government budgets and unlike private business,

>>> >> there are very strict rules on what different fund lines can be used

>>> >> for. We call it different pots of money. Most of the time it is a

>>> >> violation of federal law(I mean a person can go to jail, for mixing

>>> >> those pots of money. So an administrator can see $500,000 where it

>>> >> is not needed and $0 in an account where there is tremendous need.

>>> >> That $500,000 has to be returned at the end of the fiscal year because

>>> >> it was ear marked for condition the school could not meet. So anyone

>>> >> making a BIG DEAL of funding being returned without explaining the

>>> >> reason the funds were returned is more interetsted in a sensational

>>> >> story than the truth.

>>> >>

>>> >> Is every dime used they way it should be to produce the best

>>> >> results? It depends on whether you are happy with how your child is

>>> >> doing.

>>> >>

>>> >> Are there bad teachers and administrators? Of course there are.

>>> >> Just like there are bad Policeman, bad Doctors...etc. The greatest

>>> >> majotity of teachers and administrators do what they do because they

>>> >> love kids. Many of them take money out of their own pocket to buy

>>> >> supplies and items they need for their kids. They have trouble

>>> >> sleeping at night because they know a child in thier class has very

>>> >> serious problems at home.

>>> >>

>>> >> I apologize, but I get so sick and tired of people attacking the

>>> >> public schools.

>>> >>

>>> >> I issue a challange to anyone who feels that our public schools are

>>> >> horrible. Become a teacher or a teacher's aid. I am willing to bet

>>> >> that most of the people that are the most critical would not last a

>>> >> month in the classroom and are more concerned about a political agenda

>>> >> than the welfare of our kids.

>>> >>

>>> >>

>>> >>

>>> >> Unlocking Autism

>>> >> www.UnlockingAutism.org

>

>

>

> Unlocking Autism

> www.UnlockingAutism.org

>

> Autism-Awareness-Action

> Worldwide internet group for parents who have a

> child with AUTISM.

>

> SeekingJoyinDisability - Prayer support for those touched by Disability:

> SeekingJoyinDisability/

>

>

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Connie,

That is great news to hear. I am excited for you that you are getting the

services you feel your child needs.

But your situation sounds a little different. It sounds like you home

schooled first, for a number of years and THEN moved your children to the

public schools. (nothing wrong with how you did it, I am just commenting it

is somewhat different).

In many stories I hear by parents complaining, it is when they try to work

with the school district FIRST, with a younger child, and the conflict

arises there. In my own situation, we butted heads with the ISD when we

STARTED treating our sons Autism at age 3. Now that he is age 7, and

attending class with typical peers, and " passing " for typical, (even though

we don't yet see him as recovered), he is doing great in school. But that

is because WE chose to pay for the ABA and other services that the schools

refused to provide. (even though at the time they refused, he tested in the

Moderate to severe range of Autism, with a CARS score of 38)

So , my point is, respectfully, my son will PROBABLY do great now too in

public schools and we will not have much to complain about either, NOW;

because the HARDEST part of the work is over (after 5 years of ABA and other

Biomedical treatments) and now we are on the downhill side.

Again, I am happy for you that you are pleased, but I question how your

experience would have been different had you pushed your ISD for ABA or some

other intensive program when they turned 3 or 4 years old?

I am sure you sacrificed in many ways to be able to stay home with your

kids, and I commend you for the dedication that you have shown. Parents

such as yourself, that have dealt with this on a DAILY basis are really the

TRUE experts with Autism.

" ...Work towards

change and improvement in a positive way - but we have NOTHING to

gain by attacking each other. Hey, we're all in this TOGETHER!!.... "

I agree with you here, I just also think, though, that there is also no

positive benefit in writing to the newslist to basically say- and I

paraphrase the idea communicated- either shut up or go try being a teacher

yourself....

J. Reirdon

Message: 7

Date: Sun, 15 Feb 2004 21:05:29 -0000

From: " Connie " <jimcon8@...>

Subject: Re: Easy To Beat Up On Public Schools

,

Thank you for speaking up so well on this subject!! I know I have

made comments on this list about GOOD things about my children and

their school, OH, not to have people EXCITED but rather to have

people NAY say!! Shame on that attitute!!!

I am basically a homeschooler at heart - I have homeschooled for 18

years now - I finally put my two ASD boys in public school just

because of sheer exhaustion. I have my problems with the PS, also,

some for different reasons - BUT what I can say GOOD about my sons'

school is this:

1) the special ed department at this elementary school CARE about my

boys - which is more than I have found in churches and in my own

family. One TA gushes about how is her favorite.

2) the rest of the school is learning to deal with and accept special

kids without making fun of them

3) My sons look forward to school EVERY day - the bus ride, being

with kids and LEARNING

4) my kids are treated well!

5) and the staff is DEDICATED and this is their VOCATION - their

hearts and soul are in there EVERY day.

Because I have a homeschool heart, I don't EXPECT the school to do

everything - my kids are MY responsibility - I don't have any DESIRE

to make the school an enemy - IF I decide at some point that they

would be better served at home, to home they will come. What good

comes of making the school your enemy?

Come on people - let's rejoice when there is something to rejoice and

encourange where needed - don't come down ALL the time. Work towards

change and improvement in a positive way - but we have NOTHING to

gain by attacking each other. Hey, we're all in this TOGETHER!!

Thanks and blessings

Connie

[Guest guest]

Ah,

now I understand, the real problem is inside and . Ok, so let's

all just work on fixing and , and then THAT will fix the problems

with Spec. Ed services (schools) in Texas.

How simple the solution, when you just blame the messenger rather address

the issues in question!

Solutions, .... hmmmm....... how about the idea previously mentioned-

school vouchers. If parents could choose to send their child to whichever

school they wanted, AND take their tax dollars WITH their child- THEN,....

THEN we would see improvement. Competition has a way of weeding out what is

innefective or innefficient- such as teachers and or administrators that

don't show results. Then only the good " archetypal " teachers will be left,

and we can ALL have good experiences like some of you are saying you have

had.

, how does that sound as a change?

J. Reirdon

From: MidasGoal@... [mailto:MidasGoal@...]

Sent: Saturday, February 14, 2004 5:21 PM

Autism Treatment

Subject: Re: Easy To Beat Up On Public Schools

Nothing is going to improve until all of us realize the change starts

with

US. Ask yourself what I can do to improve the public schools. Not

what they

need, or the State should do. What does and need to do.

Until

you can answer that question, do not expect anything to improve.

Stopping the

conversation is not going to resolve it either.

[Guest guest]

,

I apologize that I have read some of these posts out of order, as such , I

am seeing new information that I should have read earlier, I will endeavor

not to repeat this mistake.

With that said, it puzzles me that you HAVE run a home program and you

HAVE had struggles with your school district, and yet you fail to see the

source or reason for discontent in others on this list. If I, or someone

else HAVE NO positive experiences, but many negative ones (with the ISDs),

what else are we to report?

" ...My question to youis what purpose is served my constantly being critical

of

the public schools.... "

The purpose that is served is that the truth must be reported and dealt

with. That is the purpose. If this list is to be restricted to only NICE

things and things that make us feel happy, then it wouldn't be much of a

newslist about Autism Advocacy, IMHO. There is a famous quote (I think by

Hitler) that if you tell a BIG enough lie, loud enough and often enough, it

soon becomes accepted as the truth. I am happy for anyone that has had a

positive experience with their school district. But you have no right to

challenge people to become teachers or stop complaining.

" ...all of the rules and regulation such as No Child Left Behind.... "

There wouldn't have been a need for those rules if the school systems had

been doing their jobs in the first place. But, that is the very problem

those rules address. I am glad the rules are there and I assure you, that

as a teacher in the program I was in, we did a MUCH better job BECAUSE of

those rules than we would have been done without them. When people complain

about rules, what they are really saying is they don't want to be held

accountable for results.

If a construction foreman began work, building you a new house but refused

to look at a blueprint....? If he said, " hey , I don't like all those rules

in the blueprints " , would you accept that from him/her?

If you were to begin a 1000 mile trip on a bus ride, in a foreign country

and your driver said , " hey , I don't like to use maps. I just like to

head in that direction and hope I get where I want to go. " Would you think

that is reasonable?

Neither do I accept the idea that teachers or schools or quality of

education suffers due to these rules. The rules provide a framework and/or

a roadmap to learning. And as I said before, if the schools had been doing

their job in the first place (with Spec. Ed students), the rules wouldn't

have been created to begin with.

J.Reirdon

Message: 10

Date: Sat, 14 Feb 2004 18:15:27 EST

From: MidasGoal@...

Subject: Re: Easy To Beat Up On Public Schools

Mt challange was not to take your One child out of school and teach him at

home. My challange is to teach in the public school where you have to deal

with all of the problems associated with meeting all of the requirements of

all

of the rules and regulation such as No Child Left Behind.

I commend anyone who wants to home school, but that is a completly different

set of issues. We ran a Lovaas program from home for two years.

Believe me we have had serious fights with our School and our Doctors trying

to get everything we need for our son.

My question to youis what purpose is served my constantly being critical of

the public schools.

Of course we have to fight to ge the best services e can for our children.

My disagrement is with idividuals that make statements the all public

schools

are bad, and we they arebad because of the teacher unions.

[Guest guest]

Hi . You make an important point. Without involvement by families,

schools have no incentive to change what they are doing. It's critical

that we keep pressure on school districts (1) to develop programs that

make a difference and (2) to provide the resources to make sure our

kids' IEP goals are being met.

That said, we pulled our child out of public school last week. My

husband and I have been extremely involved in effecting change in our

school district, but honestly, it takes a TON of effort, work, and time.

Our little guy is growing up fast, and pretty soon he's going to be

heading to elementary school. We don't have the TIME to wait for our

school district to get its act together. We need to make sure he is

getting effective early intervention right now.

In the meanwhile, we are paying through the nose for a private ABA-based

school. We could certainly help push our district towards developing

ABA-based programs by going to due-process to seek reimbursement for the

private program, but Texas hearing officers have tended to rule

conservatively on these cases. The cost of going to due process without

a fairly strong assurance of success makes it difficult for families to

be able to exert that type of pressure on their school districts. Texas

is far behind other states in programming for ASD kids. There's

certainly room for improvement at the state level, and we need to work

at that level, as well in our individual schools, to bring up the

quality of services for kids with autism across the state.

Geraldine

Re: Easy To Beat Up On Public Schools

Nothing is going to improve until all of us realize the change starts

with

US. Ask yourself what I can do to improve the public schools. Not

what they

need, or the State should do. What does and need to do.

Until

you can answer that question, do not expect anything to improve.

Stopping the

conversation is not going to resolve it either.

[Guest guest]

Hi . You make an important point. Without involvement by families,

schools have no incentive to change what they are doing. It's critical

that we keep pressure on school districts (1) to develop programs that

make a difference and (2) to provide the resources to make sure our

kids' IEP goals are being met.

That said, we pulled our child out of public school last week. My

husband and I have been extremely involved in effecting change in our

school district, but honestly, it takes a TON of effort, work, and time.

Our little guy is growing up fast, and pretty soon he's going to be

heading to elementary school. We don't have the TIME to wait for our

school district to get its act together. We need to make sure he is

getting effective early intervention right now.

In the meanwhile, we are paying through the nose for a private ABA-based

school. We could certainly help push our district towards developing

ABA-based programs by going to due-process to seek reimbursement for the

private program, but Texas hearing officers have tended to rule

conservatively on these cases. The cost of going to due process without

a fairly strong assurance of success makes it difficult for families to

be able to exert that type of pressure on their school districts. Texas

is far behind other states in programming for ASD kids. There's

certainly room for improvement at the state level, and we need to work

at that level, as well in our individual schools, to bring up the

quality of services for kids with autism across the state.

Geraldine

Re: Easy To Beat Up On Public Schools

Nothing is going to improve until all of us realize the change starts

with

US. Ask yourself what I can do to improve the public schools. Not

what they

need, or the State should do. What does and need to do.

Until

you can answer that question, do not expect anything to improve.

Stopping the

conversation is not going to resolve it either.

[Guest guest]

Hi . You make an important point. Without involvement by families,

schools have no incentive to change what they are doing. It's critical

that we keep pressure on school districts (1) to develop programs that

make a difference and (2) to provide the resources to make sure our

kids' IEP goals are being met.

That said, we pulled our child out of public school last week. My

husband and I have been extremely involved in effecting change in our

school district, but honestly, it takes a TON of effort, work, and time.

Our little guy is growing up fast, and pretty soon he's going to be

heading to elementary school. We don't have the TIME to wait for our

school district to get its act together. We need to make sure he is

getting effective early intervention right now.

In the meanwhile, we are paying through the nose for a private ABA-based

school. We could certainly help push our district towards developing

ABA-based programs by going to due-process to seek reimbursement for the

private program, but Texas hearing officers have tended to rule

conservatively on these cases. The cost of going to due process without

a fairly strong assurance of success makes it difficult for families to

be able to exert that type of pressure on their school districts. Texas

is far behind other states in programming for ASD kids. There's

certainly room for improvement at the state level, and we need to work

at that level, as well in our individual schools, to bring up the

quality of services for kids with autism across the state.

Geraldine

Re: Easy To Beat Up On Public Schools

Nothing is going to improve until all of us realize the change starts

with

US. Ask yourself what I can do to improve the public schools. Not

what they

need, or the State should do. What does and need to do.

Until

you can answer that question, do not expect anything to improve.

Stopping the

conversation is not going to resolve it either.