Re: Protein / carb-cycling

[Guest guest]

Thanks I was thinking the same thing. Maybe one should start a NHE

board.

[Guest guest]

ROFL.....that is a geat line...!

--- eljayef@... wrote:

> drturner@... writes: > I have been BFLing for 6

> months & while I

> > might look into or try things that are not strictly

> BFL, I think we should

> > make an effort to

> > keep postings here focused on BFL (it is a BFL board).

> Many of the people

> > on this board are on their first challenge and can get

> overwhelmed by

> > information not related to the plan.

> >

> I'm not on my first Challenge, but I too am overwhelmed

> by all this stuff.

> We have had this arguement before. Yes. I appreciate

> that it's interesting

> and beneficial to look at other fitness methods BUT WHEN

> I WANT TO BUY A

> LEXUS, I DON " T LOG ONTO A MERCEDES SUPPORT SITE!!!

> .

>

> >

> >

>

>

>

=====

-Don't worry about the world coming to an end today. It's already tomorrow in

Australia.

Schultz -

__________________________________________________

[Guest guest]

ROFL.....that is a geat line...!

--- eljayef@... wrote:

> drturner@... writes: > I have been BFLing for 6

> months & while I

> > might look into or try things that are not strictly

> BFL, I think we should

> > make an effort to

> > keep postings here focused on BFL (it is a BFL board).

> Many of the people

> > on this board are on their first challenge and can get

> overwhelmed by

> > information not related to the plan.

> >

> I'm not on my first Challenge, but I too am overwhelmed

> by all this stuff.

> We have had this arguement before. Yes. I appreciate

> that it's interesting

> and beneficial to look at other fitness methods BUT WHEN

> I WANT TO BUY A

> LEXUS, I DON " T LOG ONTO A MERCEDES SUPPORT SITE!!!

> .

>

> >

> >

>

>

>

=====

-Don't worry about the world coming to an end today. It's already tomorrow in

Australia.

Schultz -

__________________________________________________

[Guest guest]

THANK YOU!!!!! My sentiments exactly. I am just finishing up on week

2 and am totally focused into BFL right now. I don't need all the

added philosophies! Besides, I am not sure about this hormone stuff

anyway...usually when a women goes on hormone replacement or the pill

she gains FAT! (I have direct experience with extremely high estrogen

levels...that is why I am doing BFL!-- I did not change my

eating/workout habits that made me gain 15-20lbs...it was purely

estrogen related weight gain) I am sure there is more to it than

that, but men, your hormones don't flucuate as extreme as ours do, so

IMHO I don't think daily dietary changes are going to affect us the

same.

> > > Sorry, guys, this is WAY off BFL. I'll move this conversation

> off

> > > the list.

> >

> > Should we be legalistic about keeping everything " just BFL " if

> > there's more good things to learn and thereby enhance our

personal

> > fitness regimens . . . ?

> >

> > Regards,

> > Andy

[Guest guest]

Glenda,

Pardon me for going a little off BFL topic, but ACSM...certification in

sports medicine??!! That's so cool! I've been thinking along those lines

(background as a PA.....a long time ago How long have you been working

towards your certification? Best wishes as you approach exam time....and

I'm glad to hear you didn't let those 2nd grade teachers brainwash your

child! Alyson

Re: Re: Protein / carb-cycling

>

> > State nutrition specialists learn from textbooks,

>

> As do nurses.

>

> ...I've taken many college-level nutrition

> > courses

[Guest guest]

Dr. Lee....hmmmm....doesn't sound familiar. Good information on female

hormones though???? I suffer from severe endometriosis, and although I

experience many bizarre symptoms that I'm certain are related to erratic

hormone levels, I've not read much that supports my theories. Anything

specific by Dr. Lee you'd recommend? Thanks, Alyson

Re: Re: Protein / carb-cycling

>

> Thanks, Alyson. I really didn't think there would be that much if any at

> all information in that book regarding women. I've learned more about

> estrogen in this last year that I got sick from my oncologist and how it

> affects us than earning my masters in women's health. Have you read any

of

> Dr. Lee's books?

>

[Guest guest]

> Should we be legalistic about keeping everything " just BFL " if

> there's more good things to learn and thereby enhance our personal

> fitness regimens . . .

I'm definitely pro-BFL, but I personally don't mind hearing of research

that's out there that might complement the BFL way of life. I'm a working

mom of 3 and don't have a lot of time for extra-curricular reading, so I

appreciate input from those of you who are 'up' on the fitness-related

literature. I've read NHE and found nothing that contradicted Bill

in any way....it just explains the BFL program further, provides lots of

research references to support not only NHE but BFL as well. It is pretty

scientific, and might be confusing for many without a

nutrition/medical/science background....BFL works for many people, just as

written. More power to them! I personally have hormonal problems and

severe carbohydrate intolerance, so the info in NHE I found to be

particularly intriguing and will possibly help me make BFL more effective,

given my individual metabolic quirks. Plus it made much of BFL make more

sense to me, 'cause the science of why BFL works is thoroughly explained.

So you BFL enthusiasts, keep on reading, and I personally appreciate outside

info, as long as it doesn't contradict the soundness of the BFL program!

Just my opinion....Alyson

[Guest guest]

Andy,

>where there's an emphasis on

> testosterone, it's due to the simple fact that men produce more of it

That statement about sums it up---since men produce more of it it's of

primary concern to us all

The 'testosterone is the one and only truly important hormone' comment was

tongue in cheek...I was being kind of sarcastic there. Testosterone is the

'master hormone' for men, and I'm not questioning it's importance in men,

and yes, women have miniscule amounts of testosterone floating around too.

However it is certainly not our master hormone... estrogen and progesterone

are extremely powerful hormones that we women have to put up with. Their

cycling within me causes much havoc in my body on a 4 week cycle, and not

just during 'that time of the month'.

In reading NHE, imagine how bothered you, a male, might have been if

everywhere testosterone was mentioned in the book, it talked of estrogen

instead. Imagine if you, a male, read through volumes and volumes of info

on estrogen, and how it impacts every aspect of your fitness and being, but

found that testosterone hadn't been researched to the same extent and was

mentioned only in passing, lumped together with 'all those other

not-estrogen hormones in the body'.... My point is that being female, it's

frustrating that our health issues have not garnered the same attention in

the scientific research fields, since the beginning of science, than the

issues of males. If men were the ones that got pregnant, endured PMS,

gained water weight every month, etc., there would have been 'cures' for

those kinds of problems eons ago!!! I think estrogen and progesterone can

hamper workout efforts....I just wish there was some science out there that

explains why and what to do about it....There might be a whole other way of

life out there that would benefit women and give them dramatic workout

results if based on est. and pro. research (comparable to the programs

available today, based on testosterone research, that produce dramatic

changes in males! )

I know, you're a guy....probably still wondering why I don't want to read

much more about testosterone....

No insult to males intended...I love men, but you know, we are different

and it didn't take the Mars & Venus phenomenon to clue me in!!

Best wishes,

Alyson

[Guest guest]

I'll take that under advisement, . Thing is, I'm figuring that

there's no reason someone couldn't begin the NHE Eating Plan (if they

wanted to) without at all disrupting their 12-week BFL workouts.

They mesh nicely, actually.

Regards,

Andy

> I have been BFLing for 6 months & while I might look into or try

> things that are not strictly BFL, I think we should make an effort

to

> keep postings here focused on BFL (it is a BFL board). Many of the

> people on this board are on their first challenge and can get

> overwhelmed by information not related to the plan.

>

> Pointing somebody to alternate research or web sites is fine. This

> allows them to explore it if they wish, but putting large posts

> regarding other programs is distracting.

>

> My 2 cents.

>

>

[Guest guest]

I don't get the line, actually. Is a Lexus the prize for winning the

BFL challenge?

Thanks,

Andy

> > drturner@b... writes: > I have been BFLing for 6

> > months & while I

> > > might look into or try things that are not strictly

> > BFL, I think we should

> > > make an effort to

> > > keep postings here focused on BFL (it is a BFL board).

> > Many of the people

> > > on this board are on their first challenge and can get

> > overwhelmed by

> > > information not related to the plan.

> > >

> > I'm not on my first Challenge, but I too am overwhelmed

> > by all this stuff.

> > We have had this arguement before. Yes. I appreciate

> > that it's interesting

> > and beneficial to look at other fitness methods BUT WHEN

> > I WANT TO BUY A

> > LEXUS, I DON " T LOG ONTO A MERCEDES SUPPORT SITE!!!

> > .

> >

> > >

> > >

> >

> >

> >

>

>

> =====

> -Don't worry about the world coming to an end today. It's already

tomorrow in Australia.

> Schultz -

>

> __________________________________________________

>

[Guest guest]

] Thanks, Alyson. I really didn't think there would

be that much if any at all information in that book regarding women.>>

Sorry, but that's a statement made in biased ignorance. The

information in NHE relates to *both* men and women. When Faigin

takes a little time here and there to focus on testosterone, it's

because there's an enhanced effect for men due to the fact that they

*produce more* testosterone. It's as simple as that.

Regards,

Andy

[Guest guest]

<< [i had said:] where there's an emphasis on testosterone, it's due

to the simple fact that men produce more of it >>

>

< [Alyson responds:] That statement about sums it up---since men

produce more of it it's of primary concern to us all >

True, *but* . . . the eating principles in NHE apply to *everyone*

regardless of the added testosterone effect for men.

< The 'testosterone is the one and only truly important hormone'

comment was tongue in cheek...I was being kind of sarcastic there. >

I understand, but don't say things that make NHE look bad, or look

irrelevant to women. It's not irrelevant to women. :-)

< Testosterone is the 'master hormone' for men, and I'm not

questioning it's importance in men, and yes, women have miniscule

amounts of testosterone floating around too. However it is certainly

not our master hormone... >

True, but consider: if eating in a certain way enhances hormonal

output, then it stands to reason that that type of eating would be

even *more* relevant to women because it would enhance *their*

testosterone and help them build more muscle more easily.

< In reading NHE, imagine how bothered you, a male, might have been

if everywhere testosterone was mentioned in the book, it talked of

estrogen instead. >

I can't prove this, of course, but I don't think it would've bothered

me. I tend to be pretty objective (not perfectly, but still...). To

reiterate: all of the NHE eating principles apply to *both* men and

women and enhance the hormonal output and balance in *both* genders.

The testosterone discussions are *also* relevant to both because if

women want to build muscle and already produce so little

testosterone, then why wouldn't they be interested in enhancing that

testosterone output?

< My point is that being female, it's frustrating that our health

issues have not garnered the same attention in the scientific

research fields, since the beginning of science, than the issues of

males. >

I understand that, but it's irrelevant where NHE is concerned,

because NHE is about hormonal enhancement in *everyone*, and

therefore it's all still relevant to women. The purpose of the book

is to teach a way of eating and a way of working out - and sound

methods of eating and working out are of relevance to both men and

women. Therefore NHE accomplishes its goal. Extensive discussions

of estrogen and progesterone would not have helped that goal.

< I think estrogen and progesterone can hamper workout efforts....I

just wish there was some science out there that explains why and what

to do about it.... >

NHE eating principles will help that, because they affect *all*

hormones. The reason he focuses on particular ones is because

affecting those particular ones through how you eat will *lead to* a

positive effect on the others as well.

< I know, you're a guy....probably still wondering why I don't want

to read much more about testosterone.... >

I would think that an eating plan that *enhances* testosterone would

be of even more relevance to women than to men, if those women want

to build muscle.

Regards,

Andy

[Guest guest]

<< [i had said:] where there's an emphasis on testosterone, it's due

to the simple fact that men produce more of it >>

>

< [Alyson responds:] That statement about sums it up---since men

produce more of it it's of primary concern to us all >

True, *but* . . . the eating principles in NHE apply to *everyone*

regardless of the added testosterone effect for men.

< The 'testosterone is the one and only truly important hormone'

comment was tongue in cheek...I was being kind of sarcastic there. >

I understand, but don't say things that make NHE look bad, or look

irrelevant to women. It's not irrelevant to women. :-)

< Testosterone is the 'master hormone' for men, and I'm not

questioning it's importance in men, and yes, women have miniscule

amounts of testosterone floating around too. However it is certainly

not our master hormone... >

True, but consider: if eating in a certain way enhances hormonal

output, then it stands to reason that that type of eating would be

even *more* relevant to women because it would enhance *their*

testosterone and help them build more muscle more easily.

< In reading NHE, imagine how bothered you, a male, might have been

if everywhere testosterone was mentioned in the book, it talked of

estrogen instead. >

I can't prove this, of course, but I don't think it would've bothered

me. I tend to be pretty objective (not perfectly, but still...). To

reiterate: all of the NHE eating principles apply to *both* men and

women and enhance the hormonal output and balance in *both* genders.

The testosterone discussions are *also* relevant to both because if

women want to build muscle and already produce so little

testosterone, then why wouldn't they be interested in enhancing that

testosterone output?

< My point is that being female, it's frustrating that our health

issues have not garnered the same attention in the scientific

research fields, since the beginning of science, than the issues of

males. >

I understand that, but it's irrelevant where NHE is concerned,

because NHE is about hormonal enhancement in *everyone*, and

therefore it's all still relevant to women. The purpose of the book

is to teach a way of eating and a way of working out - and sound

methods of eating and working out are of relevance to both men and

women. Therefore NHE accomplishes its goal. Extensive discussions

of estrogen and progesterone would not have helped that goal.

< I think estrogen and progesterone can hamper workout efforts....I

just wish there was some science out there that explains why and what

to do about it.... >

NHE eating principles will help that, because they affect *all*

hormones. The reason he focuses on particular ones is because

affecting those particular ones through how you eat will *lead to* a

positive effect on the others as well.

< I know, you're a guy....probably still wondering why I don't want

to read much more about testosterone.... >

I would think that an eating plan that *enhances* testosterone would

be of even more relevance to women than to men, if those women want

to build muscle.

Regards,

Andy

[Guest guest]

Andy...You're very 'wordy' and have some good points, BUT there is no

way you can say this works equally for men and women. Women have

CYCLES...our hormones fluctuate with those cycles. Men don't. WE ARE

NOT THE SAME. Our body chemistry does not work the same! I don't want

more natural testosterone anyway because then there are certain woman

characteristics that I would lose, plus the inability to have

children. I am not a Dr, but I have seen a Reproductive

Endocrinologist for many years. I know a lot about women's hormones,

and you with all your wordiness will not convince me or most others

here otherwise. SO, please quit beating this dead horse to the

ground. Talk about BFL and offer SUPPORT. If you keep insisting on

this discussion you will be losing support from others. If you want

to discuss this...start your own group.

OK, enough!!???

...who is very hormonal right now, and wishes this will end.

This IS my last post regarding this...and the last one I will read.

> << [i had said:] where there's an emphasis on testosterone, it's

due

> to the simple fact that men produce more of it >>

> >

> < [Alyson responds:] That statement about sums it up---since men

> produce more of it it's of primary concern to us all >

>

> True, *but* . . . the eating principles in NHE apply to *everyone*

> regardless of the added testosterone effect for men.

>

> < The 'testosterone is the one and only truly important hormone'

> comment was tongue in cheek...I was being kind of sarcastic there. >

>

> I understand, but don't say things that make NHE look bad, or look

> irrelevant to women. It's not irrelevant to women. :-)

>

> < Testosterone is the 'master hormone' for men, and I'm not

> questioning it's importance in men, and yes, women have miniscule

> amounts of testosterone floating around too. However it is

certainly

> not our master hormone... >

>

> True, but consider: if eating in a certain way enhances hormonal

> output, then it stands to reason that that type of eating would be

> even *more* relevant to women because it would enhance *their*

> testosterone and help them build more muscle more easily.

>

> < In reading NHE, imagine how bothered you, a male, might have been

> if everywhere testosterone was mentioned in the book, it talked of

> estrogen instead. >

>

> I can't prove this, of course, but I don't think it would've

bothered

> me. I tend to be pretty objective (not perfectly, but still...).

To

> reiterate: all of the NHE eating principles apply to *both* men and

> women and enhance the hormonal output and balance in *both*

genders.

> The testosterone discussions are *also* relevant to both because if

> women want to build muscle and already produce so little

> testosterone, then why wouldn't they be interested in enhancing

that

> testosterone output?

>

> < My point is that being female, it's frustrating that our health

> issues have not garnered the same attention in the scientific

> research fields, since the beginning of science, than the issues of

> males. >

>

> I understand that, but it's irrelevant where NHE is concerned,

> because NHE is about hormonal enhancement in *everyone*, and

> therefore it's all still relevant to women. The purpose of the

book

> is to teach a way of eating and a way of working out - and sound

> methods of eating and working out are of relevance to both men and

> women. Therefore NHE accomplishes its goal. Extensive discussions

> of estrogen and progesterone would not have helped that goal.

>

> < I think estrogen and progesterone can hamper workout efforts....I

> just wish there was some science out there that explains why and

what

> to do about it.... >

>

> NHE eating principles will help that, because they affect *all*

> hormones. The reason he focuses on particular ones is because

> affecting those particular ones through how you eat will *lead to*

a

> positive effect on the others as well.

>

> < I know, you're a guy....probably still wondering why I don't want

> to read much more about testosterone.... >

>

> I would think that an eating plan that *enhances* testosterone

would

> be of even more relevance to women than to men, if those women want

> to build muscle.

>

> Regards,

> Andy

[Guest guest]

,

Thanks for your response. . . .

< Andy...You're very 'wordy' and have some good points, BUT there is

no way you can say this works equally for men and women. Women have

CYCLES...our hormones fluctuate with those cycles. Men don't. WE ARE

NOT THE SAME. Our body chemistry does not work the same! >

Then why do both men and women here insist on eating by the *same*

plan (BFL)? You just attacked not only the NHE eating plan, but the

BFL eating plan as well, since the BFL eating plan is also intended

to apply to both men and women.

< I don't want more natural testosterone anyway because then there

are certain woman characteristics that I would lose, plus the

inability to have children. >

Uh, no. The NHE plan would not undermine your femininity or make you

unable to have children. You simply aren't familiar with the

contents and research of the book.

< I know a lot about women's hormones, and you with all your

wordiness will not convince me or most others here otherwise. >

, if you'd paid a little more attention to anything I'd posted,

you'd have seen that I never once questioned the medical facts about

women's hormonal cycles.

< SO, please quit beating this dead horse to the ground. Talk about

BFL and offer SUPPORT. If you keep insisting on this discussion you

will be losing support from others. If you want to discuss

this...start your own group. OK, enough!!???

< ...who is very hormonal right now, and wishes this will end. >

With all due respect, if such discussions get you that upset, then

you need a lot more in your life than a workout/nutrition plan.

Regards,

Andy

[Guest guest]

Yes, that is exactly what public education does to most of the kids.

It is brainwashing them. Makes sense to me to get rid of public

education and send kids to private school or home-school them so that

YOU can teach them what you want.

Or at the very least, get involved in your public school so that you

know what your kids are learning in school. Challenge the teachers

to think about what they are teaching the kids.

Andy

> Glenda,

> Pardon me for going a little off BFL topic, but

ACSM...certification in

> sports medicine??!! That's so cool! I've been thinking along

those lines

> (background as a PA.....a long time ago How long have you been

working

> towards your certification? Best wishes as you approach exam

time....and

> I'm glad to hear you didn't let those 2nd grade teachers brainwash

your

> child! Alyson

> Re: Re: Protein / carb-cycling

>

>

> >

> > > State nutrition specialists learn from textbooks,

> >

> > As do nurses.

> >

> > ...I've taken many college-level nutrition

> > > courses

[Guest guest]

Yes, that is exactly what public education does to most of the kids.

It is brainwashing them. Makes sense to me to get rid of public

education and send kids to private school or home-school them so that

YOU can teach them what you want.

Or at the very least, get involved in your public school so that you

know what your kids are learning in school. Challenge the teachers

to think about what they are teaching the kids.

Andy

> Glenda,

> Pardon me for going a little off BFL topic, but

ACSM...certification in

> sports medicine??!! That's so cool! I've been thinking along

those lines

> (background as a PA.....a long time ago How long have you been

working

> towards your certification? Best wishes as you approach exam

time....and

> I'm glad to hear you didn't let those 2nd grade teachers brainwash

your

> child! Alyson

> Re: Re: Protein / carb-cycling

>

>

> >

> > > State nutrition specialists learn from textbooks,

> >

> > As do nurses.

> >

> > ...I've taken many college-level nutrition

> > > courses