Re: Army about to break.

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 3/30/2007 9:49:27 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, no_reply writes:

Still, what did these soldiers think they were enlisting for? To play gin rummy? When war breaks out, all bets are off and whatever you were promised when you enlisted gets thrown out the window. If soldiers are fed up with their repeated tours of duty, they have no one to blame but themselves for enlisting in the first place.

Look at it from their point of view. Yes, they signed up knowing that war was a possibility, and for the last several years a reality. The thing is, that there is only so much combat stress that the human mind can take. During WWII, studies found this to be about 200 days. What the troops are facing in Iraq right now is guerilla warfare, which is always tense.

Troops durability can be extended by things like good R & R in safe locations, time away from the battle zone, as well as good training before going to fight.

Read the article more carefully. You will see that they aren't getting this. Training is cut short, leave is cut short, and units don't have the time to get to know how to work together.

The military has figured all this out, which is why they mentioned the 3 brigades for one in the field with one year of fighting and two off. That would be the best for keeping the army fully functional now and for the future. However, since they don't have enough strength, they only get maybe 9 months between deployments, which isn't enough time.

It isn't a matter of complaining, it is a matter of being worn out by the stress. It isn't a matter of courage, it is a matter of endurance and a known limit to what soldiers can take.

Add to that the situation in Washington and other parts of the country where it is Vietnam all over again with the country being divided and politicians threatening the outcome of the war for the sake of political games. That demoralizes the troops too. They know that if there is a pull out date, two things could happen.

1) The terrorists could ramp up the pressure, attacking US troops knowing that the time for retaliation is limited, that the troops will be less likely to take risks and die before being withdrawn, and that the public wouldn't stand for many casualties.

2) The terrorists would wait until the last American troops leave and then launch and all out slaughter.

What is interesting about the date set for withdrawal by both the Senate and House is that it is just a few months before the next Presidential election. I'm sure they are banking on something bad happening and that Bush will get all the blame, even though it was Congress that ordered the pullout. Hundreds of thousands of lives and a regional war on top of our major oil supply, all for the sake of getting Bush and taking the White House.

Anyway, what is going on is simple military psychology. Soldiers have known limits and they are being pushed too hard. It would be one thing if this were a WWII type war with a "get to Berlin and Tokyo" to end the war. It isn't. This is a "we got to Baghdad and are smack in the middle of two religions that have hated and killed each other for centuries and we are trying to keep the peace but don't have the ruthless streak to do it," kind of war. We fought WWII to win, but in Iraq and Afghanistan we are playing at war with no intent of winning. The soldiers know this and that knowing isn't helping either.

We should have either stayed out of Iraq or gone in hard and crushed the resistance at the beginning. We should have dragged the leaders of both the Sunni and the Shia into the streets when they wouldn't stop the terrorism and shot them. The next set of leaders would get the same and so on until it stopped. That is the kind of ruthlessness that we lack and so we shouldn't have gone in. You think Sadaam kept the peace by being nice? He did it with poison gas and death squads.

We should have just stayed out.

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[Guest guest]

Yes. This is all true.

Still, what did these soldiers think they were enlisting for? To

play gin rummy? When war breaks out, all bets are off and whatever

you were promised when you enlisted gets thrown out the window. If

soldiers are fed up with their repeated tours of duty, they have no

one to blame but themselves for enlisting in the first place.

If they were drafted, I could understand their point of view.

I thought of enlisting once when I was out of high school but did

not simply because I recognized right off that I would not want to

serve if we went to war for a cause I did not believe in.

If there was a draft and I was drafted and did not believe in the

cause, I'd fight in battle anyway, however, because

1) I would not want anyone to take my place and die there while I

cowardly went AWOL and

2) Because it would wreck my conscience to be a " consciencious

objector " and see someone else get shipped up to the front line and

die in my place while I " conscienciously objected. "

And I would not bitch and moan while I was serving against my will

so as not to spread poor morale among my colleagues, either.

But I would certainly complain about the whole thing if I came out

of the war unscathed.

Tom

Administrator

I said before the war began that we had too few troops to get tied

up in Iraq.

TODAY'S COLUMNIST

By H. Scales

March 30, 2007

If you haven't heard the news, I'm afraid your Army is broken, a

victim of too many missions for too few soldiers for too long. Today

we have deployed to Iraq and Afghanistan all of our fighting

brigades, both active and reserve. Every brigade save one in Korea

has spent time in combat.

[Guest guest]

I aid:

" Still, what did these soldiers think they were enlisting for? To

play gin rummy? When war breaks out, all bets are off and whatever

you were promised when you enlisted gets thrown out the window. If

soldiers are fed up with their repeated tours of duty, they have no

one to blame but themselves for enlisting in the first place. "

wrote:

" Look at it from their point of view. Yes, they signed up knowing

that war was a possibility, and for the last several years a

reality. The thing is, that there is only so much combat stress that

the human mind can take. During WWII, studies found this to be about

200 days. What the troops are facing in Iraq right now is guerilla

warfare, which is always tense. "

My reply:

,

I agree with everything you wrote in your entire post. I especially

agree with your assertion that not too many people at all could

stand what these troops are trying to edure over there. I had an

uncle who had PTSD after a tour in Vietnam. He died recently. Till

his dying day, he kept loaded rifles on his bed while he smoked

cigarettes and watched videos of Viet Nam news coverage that he had

sent away for. He died of lung cancer.

War really is hell.

But the fact remains...this was a risk the troops should have

anticipated BEFORE enlisting.

I smoke. But I am well aware of the risks. If I die of cancer, no

one can tell me I did not know any better. There is a warning on

every pack that tells me smoking causes cancer.

Tom

Administrator