Re: New & need help (long)

[Guest guest]

Hi Cat! I'm single mom in NC, with 3 sons. My OCD son is age

18 now, his OCD really began around age 11.5 although he had some

behaviors earlier than that. He also has Aspergers Syndrome, mild

overall.

I definitely feel I see " OCD " in the description of your son.

And " Aspergers " or " PDD " also came to mind with some of the things

you mentioned, and then I got to the part where you said someone had

suggested that at one time.

My had some earlier behaviors, as I said, but the

real " disorder " began in 6th grade. When young he had a lot of

reassurance type questions (same ones mostly) and then he would trace

over letters when writing, maybe a bit of unnecessary erasing. And a

bit of hoarding.

With OCD, most people read/hear about contamination fears or the

checking or needing things in order/a certain way. But OCD can take

on many forms, many things you may never read in a book.

But " anxiety " is common with all of it.

Now you may not notice anxiety with some behaviors/people, e.g.,

having to recheck things or having things arranged a certain

way/order. I think it depends on the severity maybe, but all will

feel at least a little prick of anxiety/anxiousness if they didn't

recheck or tried not to arrange something, etc. For instance, I

doublecheck (OK, sometimes triple check) to see if I have set my

alarm or turned off the iron. Even if I'm *sure* I have, I feel that

*need* to check again to be *sure.* It's no huge deal to me but then

I'm not rechecking that much really. (And yes, I do work on this

now; I take my time and pay attention to what I am doing so I can be

*sure* the first time and not recheck) I guess my " OCD " would begin

to be a real disorder if my life began to get disrupted by it and I

was checking WAY too much and maybe having more anxiety than it

currently gives me.

Re his comment about getting help is for wimps and he should know

everything... - sort of a tough call. His perfectionism/OCD is a

part, his giftedness too maybe and then there's the possible Aspie

part. I could see the latter coming into play here.

Re telling him about OCD - I vote " yes. " Even very young children

can be told about OCD. He may deny having it but if he will learn

about it (even just for knowledge, something new or because you said

so, LOL), I think he will at some point later admit that some

things " may be " OCD. He's too smart not to. And many times

children/teens are soooo relieved to know the " why " of something, why

they are " like this " and that it's a really common illness and so

many people have OCD or OCD-like behaviors, the severity of it just

differs. That's true with Aspergers/autism too, each trait or

symptom of it.

The time-outs when young - not my OCD son but his twin (not

identical), I had to hold the door closed too, LOL! Stubborn to this

day, can still wear me out. And not a defiant stubborn, just a

quiet " won't take no " or wants an explanation or something.

Empathy - that can be an autistic trait, but I think even just due to

his giftedness. My is gifted, not so high in IQ as your

son. But do you find your son more logical about things, a bit

literal?? When was young I thought of him as my " Mr. Spock "

from Star Trek; so intelligent/logical but I had to explain so much

to him, he lacked common sense is what I said. He does have empathy

for others but picking up on social cues or emotions of others (those

he doesn't know well) is difficult (Aspie part). The give-and-take

of conversation is hard. When younger he would go on & on & on & on

about things long after we'd all quit listening. (OK, I'm rambling!)

Clothes, rules... - OH! has had about the same shoes since

elementary school. Always red, white and blue and Nike, won't

switch. And for years now only plain t-shirts, no pockets. When he

had braces, no color to them, just picked the drab color (was it gray

maybe...). Always has followed rules. Is a stickler. The Aspie

stubborness (or maybe a bit of personality) can play a part here I

think, not OCD for him.

Oh and the meds - took inositol powder through middle school

and it worked for his OCD. Then we went on Celexa (various reasons)

for 9th and 10th grades. Then he wanted to go med-free. OCD came

back months later. Tried inositol again, didn't work this time.

Still won't go on prescription meds so we are trying

other " alternative " things at the moment, no help yet. (He has

scrupulosity/relgious and bad thought issues with OCD this time;

first time around it was more physical type things, rituals,

touching....) No therapist in our little area with experience with

OCD. My own thoughts re omega 3 for OCD: worth a try, healthy to

take anyway, may help with moods, attention.... It may help some

people with their OCD so worth a try, we tried, no help; but like

with inositol powder or even with the regular prescription meds, it's

a trial and error thing, no one " medication " works for all.

Well supper to get but I would tell him about OCD (there are great

books out for children/teens too), and find a therapist who will

treat it as OCD; but if he possibly has some autistic type traits,

they really need to understand that too.

Sorry if above is confusing, quickly typed!

>

> Hi all,

>

> I joined the list a couple weeks ago on the suggestion of a former

list member. She was appalled to hear that few of the many

professionals we've seen so far have dx'd OCD. She said she was

positive OCD was at the root of our son's problems. After I started

reading many of the posts here, I am indeed seeing a lot of similar

behaviors/anxieties and of course I'm kicking myself for not

realizing this sooner.

>

[Guest guest]

Hi Cat! I'm single mom in NC, with 3 sons. My OCD son is age

18 now, his OCD really began around age 11.5 although he had some

behaviors earlier than that. He also has Aspergers Syndrome, mild

overall.

I definitely feel I see " OCD " in the description of your son.

And " Aspergers " or " PDD " also came to mind with some of the things

you mentioned, and then I got to the part where you said someone had

suggested that at one time.

My had some earlier behaviors, as I said, but the

real " disorder " began in 6th grade. When young he had a lot of

reassurance type questions (same ones mostly) and then he would trace

over letters when writing, maybe a bit of unnecessary erasing. And a

bit of hoarding.

With OCD, most people read/hear about contamination fears or the

checking or needing things in order/a certain way. But OCD can take

on many forms, many things you may never read in a book.

But " anxiety " is common with all of it.

Now you may not notice anxiety with some behaviors/people, e.g.,

having to recheck things or having things arranged a certain

way/order. I think it depends on the severity maybe, but all will

feel at least a little prick of anxiety/anxiousness if they didn't

recheck or tried not to arrange something, etc. For instance, I

doublecheck (OK, sometimes triple check) to see if I have set my

alarm or turned off the iron. Even if I'm *sure* I have, I feel that

*need* to check again to be *sure.* It's no huge deal to me but then

I'm not rechecking that much really. (And yes, I do work on this

now; I take my time and pay attention to what I am doing so I can be

*sure* the first time and not recheck) I guess my " OCD " would begin

to be a real disorder if my life began to get disrupted by it and I

was checking WAY too much and maybe having more anxiety than it

currently gives me.

Re his comment about getting help is for wimps and he should know

everything... - sort of a tough call. His perfectionism/OCD is a

part, his giftedness too maybe and then there's the possible Aspie

part. I could see the latter coming into play here.

Re telling him about OCD - I vote " yes. " Even very young children

can be told about OCD. He may deny having it but if he will learn

about it (even just for knowledge, something new or because you said

so, LOL), I think he will at some point later admit that some

things " may be " OCD. He's too smart not to. And many times

children/teens are soooo relieved to know the " why " of something, why

they are " like this " and that it's a really common illness and so

many people have OCD or OCD-like behaviors, the severity of it just

differs. That's true with Aspergers/autism too, each trait or

symptom of it.

The time-outs when young - not my OCD son but his twin (not

identical), I had to hold the door closed too, LOL! Stubborn to this

day, can still wear me out. And not a defiant stubborn, just a

quiet " won't take no " or wants an explanation or something.

Empathy - that can be an autistic trait, but I think even just due to

his giftedness. My is gifted, not so high in IQ as your

son. But do you find your son more logical about things, a bit

literal?? When was young I thought of him as my " Mr. Spock "

from Star Trek; so intelligent/logical but I had to explain so much

to him, he lacked common sense is what I said. He does have empathy

for others but picking up on social cues or emotions of others (those

he doesn't know well) is difficult (Aspie part). The give-and-take

of conversation is hard. When younger he would go on & on & on & on

about things long after we'd all quit listening. (OK, I'm rambling!)

Clothes, rules... - OH! has had about the same shoes since

elementary school. Always red, white and blue and Nike, won't

switch. And for years now only plain t-shirts, no pockets. When he

had braces, no color to them, just picked the drab color (was it gray

maybe...). Always has followed rules. Is a stickler. The Aspie

stubborness (or maybe a bit of personality) can play a part here I

think, not OCD for him.

Oh and the meds - took inositol powder through middle school

and it worked for his OCD. Then we went on Celexa (various reasons)

for 9th and 10th grades. Then he wanted to go med-free. OCD came

back months later. Tried inositol again, didn't work this time.

Still won't go on prescription meds so we are trying

other " alternative " things at the moment, no help yet. (He has

scrupulosity/relgious and bad thought issues with OCD this time;

first time around it was more physical type things, rituals,

touching....) No therapist in our little area with experience with

OCD. My own thoughts re omega 3 for OCD: worth a try, healthy to

take anyway, may help with moods, attention.... It may help some

people with their OCD so worth a try, we tried, no help; but like

with inositol powder or even with the regular prescription meds, it's

a trial and error thing, no one " medication " works for all.

Well supper to get but I would tell him about OCD (there are great

books out for children/teens too), and find a therapist who will

treat it as OCD; but if he possibly has some autistic type traits,

they really need to understand that too.

Sorry if above is confusing, quickly typed!

>

> Hi all,

>

> I joined the list a couple weeks ago on the suggestion of a former

list member. She was appalled to hear that few of the many

professionals we've seen so far have dx'd OCD. She said she was

positive OCD was at the root of our son's problems. After I started

reading many of the posts here, I am indeed seeing a lot of similar

behaviors/anxieties and of course I'm kicking myself for not

realizing this sooner.

>

[Guest guest]

Hi Cat and welcome to the group!

It certainly sounds like your son has OC tendencies. I can also

understand why the one therapist mentioned Asperger's as a

possibility. What would preclude an Asperger's dx? Is your son

extremely successful socially? It is possible that he has more than

one dx. I'm so sorry to hear of your struggles to get him correctly

diagnosed. I'm sure his exceptional intelligence makes it even more

challenging.

Have you ever considered neuropsych testing? Your son sounds alot

like my 12 year old son with diagnoses of OCD/Bipolar

Disorder/Asperger's. How old is your son? We're in SoCal and we

homeschool (although my other NT son is in public school), too. Like

you, we pretty much homeschool by default. BTW - I thought WE were

the main supporters of Purell products, but it sounds like you guys

could give us a run for our money.

Khris

[Guest guest]

Hi, Cat.

I live in L.A. and had a very similar situation with therapists in

the Valley not

wanting to " label " my son's ocd. They both used psychotherapy to try

to treat

his severe ocd, which was completely ineffective.

It wasn't until I got to the UCLA OCD clinic that my son improved

tremendously. They

used ERP (exposure therapy) to fight OCD, which is the most effective

form of treatment to date

(sometimes used with medication).

Like your son, he didn't want to get treatment--he didn't want to

talk to anyone nor did he want

to take medication. He felt that both of those things would change him.

To make a long story short, he met a wonderful doctor at the ocd

clinic and he improved ten-fold.

The doctor has since graduated from UCLA, but we still see her weekly

in private practice.

Our insurance covered the treatment at the clinic for just our co-pay

($40/session) which is great. There usually is a

wait to get into the clinic, but it's worth it if your in a position

to do so.

If you want to know the name of the doctor we see that used to work

at the clinic, email me directly and I'll give you

her number. She doesn't take insurance, so our weekly session is now

$150.

You've probably heard that a good connection between patient and

doctor is essential. Sometimes it's hard to find.

But, the best combination is a good connection and the RIGHT TREATMENT.

Keep the faith...your son can get better if he's treated properly.

Best,

Judi

On Jun 4, 2007, at 12:18 PM, <catwhiskers@...>

<catwhiskers@...> wrote:

> Hi all,

>

> I joined the list a couple weeks ago on the suggestion of a former

> list member. She was appalled to hear that few of the many

> professionals we've seen so far have dx'd OCD. She said she was

> positive OCD was at the root of our son's problems. After I started

> reading many of the posts here, I am indeed seeing a lot of similar

> behaviors/anxieties and of course I'm kicking myself for not

> realizing this sooner.

>

> My husband and I are taking turns reading Dr. Chansky's book, and

> are hoping to find a good therapist to work with us in the Orange

> Co., Calif. area, or at least somewhere in LA/San Diego. We have

> been driving to the San Valley (90 miles one way) to see a

> therapist twice-monthly for the past six months, but we don't seem

> to be making any progress (though she disagrees with that).

>

> We have not tried meds (yet). Our pediatrician feels strongly that

> we should be trying natural remedies first, and his #1 suggestion

> is fish oil (he believes it will be the #1 " prescription " a decade

> from now). Unfortunately, my son is a staunch vegetarian and won't

> consider it. We just discovered the " vegetarian alternative " (O-

> Mega-Zen) and have been adding that to his meals, with fingers

> crossed. I'm a little skeptical of anything that claims to do so

> much, but am trying to be hopeful.

>

> My biggest question (for all of you and Dr. Chansky) is how do you

> help a child who not only claims that he doesn't wish to change but

> that he will fight any attempt to do so? He recently revealed that

> he thinks getting help " is for wimps " (definitely *not* something

> my husband and I model!). I discovered this recently when he became

> upset when I " caught him " using the dictionary to look up a word---

> he said he should never need help, he should know " everything, " and

> that he's " embarrassed " for anyone who asks for help (or

> directions, etc.). I now realize this might be OCD speaking. In any

> case, it confounding to me to know how to help my kid when my kid

> refuses to acknowledge he needs help.

>

> The current therapist said this is the reason she doesn't

> " challenge " our son on the OCD front. Our son's never even heard

> the term " OCD " (the therapist prefers to use the term " anxiety "

> with him). Therapist says our son is unique among her clients in

> that he is so extremely sensitive to how others view him and that

> confronting him about his OCD may lead to his shutting down

> completely. I'm curious what Dr. Chansky and others think about this.

>

> That's the basic info. Below, for those who wish to delve deeper,

> is a summary I typed up a few weeks ago for the aforementioned

> former listmember. I would love to get input, either on or off

> list. Thanks in advance.

>

> My son is nearly 11. He started showing seriously phobic behaviors

> around age 4-5 while in Pre-K. He went into PreK without ever

> wanting to wash his hands, but by the time he finished there, his

> hands were almost always chapped to the point of almost cracking/

> bleeding.

>

> We found he was using way too much soap (6-7 squirts of

> antibacterial soap per washing) and think this was due to the

> teacher's germ lecture fueled by the fact that he got really into

> environmentalism at that age and started testing the ocean water

> for the Surfrider Foundation (a nonprofit that monitors bacteria

> levels at local beaches).

>

> Of course I thought it was wonderful that my kid cared about the

> Earth, etc., but what I didn't realize was how intensely he was

> absorbing all the info on bacteria counts, etc. He sat through a

> two-hour lecture by the county health department like most 5 year

> olds watch cartoons. The topic was fecal contamination, and he was

> hooked...and from that point on, he became increasingly worried

> about " bathroom germs. "

>

> I questioned the OCD dx in the past because he didn't seem to fall

> neatly into the category. He doesn't line things up (though he does

> hoard). He's never been a checker. He *only* washes his hands after

> using the bathroom—he doesn’t seem to give a hoot about other

> germs, picks his nose with pleasure, etc.—but he won’t use the same

> towel twice when showering, and has recently become concerned about

> his sheets, saying he can’t let his legs touch the upper side of

> them. He gets upset when people use toilet paper for Kleenex,

> thinking bathroom germs have contaminated the entire roll of toilet

> paper. Sitting on a closed toilet seat is a big problem in his eyes.

>

> Good news: he used to wash his hands (after using the toilet) for

> at least two minutes, but he's gotten that down to 30 seconds or so

> since spending a few days with his closest buddy back East (he said

> he knew his friend didn't wash his hands, and amazingly that

> convinced my son to decrease his handwashing time substantially).

>

> Bad news: he recently flipped out on a plane flight because he

> accidentally bumped his shoulder against the wall in the lavatory

> and demanded a new shirt that very second--the plane was just

> starting its descent so he had to take his seat; he took out his

> anxiety by whacking me with his fist. Then a few weeks ago, while

> visiting my mother in law, he became distraught after dropping his

> toothbrush on the bathroom floor, saying he should “die” for doing

> that.

>

> The other main OCD-like behavior we see is in his perfectionism.

> We're always told that perfectionism comes with giftedness (he's

> been assessed twice to be over 160 IQ), but it wasn't until a year

> or so ago that I realized his perfectionism is way off the charts.

> Even a small mistake can send him into a rage. Not always, but often.

>

> He has steadfastly refused to try riding a bike, has never tied a

> shoe, and we're basically unschooling by default since he will

> literally lie down on the ground and quit if he can't do it well

> the first time. (He has said lately that he has decided he is “too

> lazy” to learn anything new and believes he will “starve to death”

> because he will be “too lazy and embarrassed to ever get a job.”).

> Yet he learns most things in a snap, has an incredible memory, and

> although he’s never had a formal lesson in grammar, spelling and

> punctuation, he seems to know intuitively how to do all those

> things to at least a high school level.

>

> He was one of those kids who began to read, as if by magic, just

> before he turned 3. I sometimes wonder if being able to master

> reading so quickly and easily set him up for expecting everything

> else should come that easily. Writing, for instance, has always

> been a source of stress for him, particularly since he is VERY

> motivated to get his stories and poems down on paper. Until his

> recent discovery of (and subsequent passion for) Dungeons &

> Dragons, he basically refused to write at all, such was his fear of

> making a mistake. He has ripped papers to pieces if he finds even

> one small spelling mistake. My husband and I have always been easy

> going in regard to " academic " success, so the pressure seems to

> come from our son alone.

>

> Some have suggested he might have other issues going on

> (sensory integration stuff) that possibly play into his difficulties,

> but sad to say we haven't fully explored that yet. Partly because

> he's so uncooperative with assessments and partly because we've

> seen so many " experts " and frankly I'm burning out on paying people

> a lot of money for little to no payoff.

>

> When he's engaged and happy, he's...engaged and happy. But when he

> gets bored, or frustrated, he often talks about wanting to be

> " dead. " And then when things frustrate him, he gets very riled up,

> thoug fortunately it doesn't usually last more than 30 seconds.

> (Knock wood!)

>

> FWIW, my son was born premature, 3.8 pounds. A couple of our many

> experts (neurologists) say that preemies sometimes " take a hit " in

> utero that can affect all sorts of areas of functioning, including

> empathy levels (not one of my son's strong points).

>

> He was always an intense, strong-willed kid, very tough to

> discipline. I can remember when he was younger I strained my neck

> and shoulders trying to hold his bedroom door closed when I

> attempted to give him " time outs, " such was his determination to be

> “right” all the time—something we constantly battle to this day.

>

> He seems obsessive about following the rules (parking signs,

> cooking instructions on packages of boxed foods, etc.). He also

> makes what seem to be arbitrary rules (arbitrary to us, anyway)

> that dictate various parts of his life. For example, after getting

> frustrated trying to play D & D over the phone with his friend across

> the country, he suddenly proclaimed that he would " never talk on

> the phone again! " Weeks went by before he finally backed down.

>

> He often shows that " brain lock " about

> seemingly unimportant issues--never wearing anything but tie-dye

> shirts for example (which after 4 years has shifted into never

> wearing anything but solid-color tshirts, no pockets). This started

> because, at age 6, he said he would no longer wear anything with a

> logo. He recently announced he would not wear tie-dye because it

> was " embarrassing, " so now plain white is his thing. He uses the

> word “embarrassing” and “embarrassments” a LOT lately—he recently

> said that it’s his “embarrassments” that are his greatest source of

> distress. He tends to want to stay home more than not, and puts up

> a fight against going to most organized activities (plays, movies,

> field trips). We live in a beach community and he says he hates the

> beach, complaining about sand.

>

> One therapist suggested Asperger’s/PDD-NOS, then a pediatric

> neurologist said no way to that. He once flipped out (during an

> extended family gathering) when he

> realized that we didn't have enough matching forks for every place

> setting. When we attempted to reassure him that it was OK, that we

> had other forks we could use, he saw it as a huge catastrophe and

> personal failure on his part, and said he had to cut his head off and

> made gestures toward the kitchen knives. That was about 2 years

> ago, and fortunately nothing that scary has happened again...until the

> other night when he dropped his toothbrush on the bathroom floor

> and said he had to cut his head off.

>

> Re OCD family history: my mom is a hoarder (not to the point

> where the Health Dept. needs to come in, but she's definitely on the

> spectrum) and my sister is one of those people who clean the house

> before the cleaning crew comes in. So maybe sort of some genetic

> issues there. I suffered from eating disorders in college, though

> that was probably caused in part by the intense pressure put on my

> teammates and I (cross country and track) by our coaches to be thin,

> thin, thin. I also have habitually scratched at my ear, much like

> some bite their fingernails, since I was a toddler. I've never been

> too worried about that, but now I see it probably falls under OCD

> spectrum behaviors. Other than that, I’m anxious about staying home

> alone at night when my husband goes away on business (to the point

> where I often stay at my sister’s, though I’m finally starting to

> deal with that and stay home instead).

>

> So, he's got issues with rigidity, extreme levels of perfectionism,

> fears of bathroom germs, and various random anxieties (one example:

> says he'll never set foot in Wyoming since he learned--at the

> sonian, no less--that Wyoming has the highest radon levels of

> any state). And he gets freaked out by thoughts of the future,

> thinking he will be doomed to failure because he can’t possibly

> picture himself a successful member of society.

>

> We are currently seeing a therapist 90 miles away twice

> monthly. We went to her because another homeschool parent

> absolutely raved about the difference she made to his daughter, who

> had/has OCD. So far we have not had much outcome, if any. Although

> she initially believed OCD might be an issue, she’s wavered on that

> dx because “she doesn’t like labels” (although she uses the label

> “gifted” at least 10-15 times per session).

>

> Moreover, she says my son does not see his issues as a

> “problem,” (he has made it very clear he has no desire in changing,

> and is staunchly opposed to meds to the point that he is suspicious

> of vitamins). I tend to agree with her on this point, and feel this

> is one of our biggest challenges: How do you treat someone who

> *strongly* resists treatment?

>

> Instead, she has tried to address our son's anxieties and glum

> outlook on life in general. He started questioning the point of

> existence when he was 5 years old--stood up in church and yelled

> " There is no God! " --and has become increasingly cynical about the

> fate of the earth ever since trying to launch an environmental club

> for kids at age 6 and failing to generate much interest (again,

> perfectionism: he raised nearly $700 for environmental causes, yet

> felt himself a failure because he saw the annual reports from

> Sierra Club, etc. and saw they operated on a budget of $1 million+.)

>

> He’s very resistant to exercise of any kind, by the way, so

> physically he is not getting much if any outlet for his stress.

> About six months ago, he would walk with me (snail pace, but still)

> for an hour every day then one day he just flat-out refused to go,

> and literally laid down on the sidewalk and refused to budge. He

> can be this way with some things (it’s never easy getting him into

> the shower) but at other times he’s polite and agreeable (this is

> why the ODD label never seemed to stick). We travel about 25% of

> the time, and (that last flight aside) he does surprisingly well

> with that. We were in Washington D.C. when that rule first came

> into being about not bringing liquids on the plane, and though I

> practically had an anxiety attack wondering how he’d live without

> his bottles of Purel, he seemed quite calm through it all, despite

> constant blaring announcements through the airport about it. So

> that taught me something: he CAN handle it (at times).

>

> Sorry to have gone on so long!

>

> Cat in Calif.

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Hi, Cat.

I live in L.A. and had a very similar situation with therapists in

the Valley not

wanting to " label " my son's ocd. They both used psychotherapy to try

to treat

his severe ocd, which was completely ineffective.

It wasn't until I got to the UCLA OCD clinic that my son improved

tremendously. They

used ERP (exposure therapy) to fight OCD, which is the most effective

form of treatment to date

(sometimes used with medication).

Like your son, he didn't want to get treatment--he didn't want to

talk to anyone nor did he want

to take medication. He felt that both of those things would change him.

To make a long story short, he met a wonderful doctor at the ocd

clinic and he improved ten-fold.

The doctor has since graduated from UCLA, but we still see her weekly

in private practice.

Our insurance covered the treatment at the clinic for just our co-pay

($40/session) which is great. There usually is a

wait to get into the clinic, but it's worth it if your in a position

to do so.

If you want to know the name of the doctor we see that used to work

at the clinic, email me directly and I'll give you

her number. She doesn't take insurance, so our weekly session is now

$150.

You've probably heard that a good connection between patient and

doctor is essential. Sometimes it's hard to find.

But, the best combination is a good connection and the RIGHT TREATMENT.

Keep the faith...your son can get better if he's treated properly.

Best,

Judi

On Jun 4, 2007, at 12:18 PM, <catwhiskers@...>

<catwhiskers@...> wrote:

> Hi all,

>

> I joined the list a couple weeks ago on the suggestion of a former

> list member. She was appalled to hear that few of the many

> professionals we've seen so far have dx'd OCD. She said she was

> positive OCD was at the root of our son's problems. After I started

> reading many of the posts here, I am indeed seeing a lot of similar

> behaviors/anxieties and of course I'm kicking myself for not

> realizing this sooner.

>

> My husband and I are taking turns reading Dr. Chansky's book, and

> are hoping to find a good therapist to work with us in the Orange

> Co., Calif. area, or at least somewhere in LA/San Diego. We have

> been driving to the San Valley (90 miles one way) to see a

> therapist twice-monthly for the past six months, but we don't seem

> to be making any progress (though she disagrees with that).

>

> We have not tried meds (yet). Our pediatrician feels strongly that

> we should be trying natural remedies first, and his #1 suggestion

> is fish oil (he believes it will be the #1 " prescription " a decade

> from now). Unfortunately, my son is a staunch vegetarian and won't

> consider it. We just discovered the " vegetarian alternative " (O-

> Mega-Zen) and have been adding that to his meals, with fingers

> crossed. I'm a little skeptical of anything that claims to do so

> much, but am trying to be hopeful.

>

> My biggest question (for all of you and Dr. Chansky) is how do you

> help a child who not only claims that he doesn't wish to change but

> that he will fight any attempt to do so? He recently revealed that

> he thinks getting help " is for wimps " (definitely *not* something

> my husband and I model!). I discovered this recently when he became

> upset when I " caught him " using the dictionary to look up a word---

> he said he should never need help, he should know " everything, " and

> that he's " embarrassed " for anyone who asks for help (or

> directions, etc.). I now realize this might be OCD speaking. In any

> case, it confounding to me to know how to help my kid when my kid

> refuses to acknowledge he needs help.

>

> The current therapist said this is the reason she doesn't

> " challenge " our son on the OCD front. Our son's never even heard

> the term " OCD " (the therapist prefers to use the term " anxiety "

> with him). Therapist says our son is unique among her clients in

> that he is so extremely sensitive to how others view him and that

> confronting him about his OCD may lead to his shutting down

> completely. I'm curious what Dr. Chansky and others think about this.

>

> That's the basic info. Below, for those who wish to delve deeper,

> is a summary I typed up a few weeks ago for the aforementioned

> former listmember. I would love to get input, either on or off

> list. Thanks in advance.

>

> My son is nearly 11. He started showing seriously phobic behaviors

> around age 4-5 while in Pre-K. He went into PreK without ever

> wanting to wash his hands, but by the time he finished there, his

> hands were almost always chapped to the point of almost cracking/

> bleeding.

>

> We found he was using way too much soap (6-7 squirts of

> antibacterial soap per washing) and think this was due to the

> teacher's germ lecture fueled by the fact that he got really into

> environmentalism at that age and started testing the ocean water

> for the Surfrider Foundation (a nonprofit that monitors bacteria

> levels at local beaches).

>

> Of course I thought it was wonderful that my kid cared about the

> Earth, etc., but what I didn't realize was how intensely he was

> absorbing all the info on bacteria counts, etc. He sat through a

> two-hour lecture by the county health department like most 5 year

> olds watch cartoons. The topic was fecal contamination, and he was

> hooked...and from that point on, he became increasingly worried

> about " bathroom germs. "

>

> I questioned the OCD dx in the past because he didn't seem to fall

> neatly into the category. He doesn't line things up (though he does

> hoard). He's never been a checker. He *only* washes his hands after

> using the bathroom—he doesn’t seem to give a hoot about other

> germs, picks his nose with pleasure, etc.—but he won’t use the same

> towel twice when showering, and has recently become concerned about

> his sheets, saying he can’t let his legs touch the upper side of

> them. He gets upset when people use toilet paper for Kleenex,

> thinking bathroom germs have contaminated the entire roll of toilet

> paper. Sitting on a closed toilet seat is a big problem in his eyes.

>

> Good news: he used to wash his hands (after using the toilet) for

> at least two minutes, but he's gotten that down to 30 seconds or so

> since spending a few days with his closest buddy back East (he said

> he knew his friend didn't wash his hands, and amazingly that

> convinced my son to decrease his handwashing time substantially).

>

> Bad news: he recently flipped out on a plane flight because he

> accidentally bumped his shoulder against the wall in the lavatory

> and demanded a new shirt that very second--the plane was just

> starting its descent so he had to take his seat; he took out his

> anxiety by whacking me with his fist. Then a few weeks ago, while

> visiting my mother in law, he became distraught after dropping his

> toothbrush on the bathroom floor, saying he should “die” for doing

> that.

>

> The other main OCD-like behavior we see is in his perfectionism.

> We're always told that perfectionism comes with giftedness (he's

> been assessed twice to be over 160 IQ), but it wasn't until a year

> or so ago that I realized his perfectionism is way off the charts.

> Even a small mistake can send him into a rage. Not always, but often.

>

> He has steadfastly refused to try riding a bike, has never tied a

> shoe, and we're basically unschooling by default since he will

> literally lie down on the ground and quit if he can't do it well

> the first time. (He has said lately that he has decided he is “too

> lazy” to learn anything new and believes he will “starve to death”

> because he will be “too lazy and embarrassed to ever get a job.”).

> Yet he learns most things in a snap, has an incredible memory, and

> although he’s never had a formal lesson in grammar, spelling and

> punctuation, he seems to know intuitively how to do all those

> things to at least a high school level.

>

> He was one of those kids who began to read, as if by magic, just

> before he turned 3. I sometimes wonder if being able to master

> reading so quickly and easily set him up for expecting everything

> else should come that easily. Writing, for instance, has always

> been a source of stress for him, particularly since he is VERY

> motivated to get his stories and poems down on paper. Until his

> recent discovery of (and subsequent passion for) Dungeons &

> Dragons, he basically refused to write at all, such was his fear of

> making a mistake. He has ripped papers to pieces if he finds even

> one small spelling mistake. My husband and I have always been easy

> going in regard to " academic " success, so the pressure seems to

> come from our son alone.

>

> Some have suggested he might have other issues going on

> (sensory integration stuff) that possibly play into his difficulties,

> but sad to say we haven't fully explored that yet. Partly because

> he's so uncooperative with assessments and partly because we've

> seen so many " experts " and frankly I'm burning out on paying people

> a lot of money for little to no payoff.

>

> When he's engaged and happy, he's...engaged and happy. But when he

> gets bored, or frustrated, he often talks about wanting to be

> " dead. " And then when things frustrate him, he gets very riled up,

> thoug fortunately it doesn't usually last more than 30 seconds.

> (Knock wood!)

>

> FWIW, my son was born premature, 3.8 pounds. A couple of our many

> experts (neurologists) say that preemies sometimes " take a hit " in

> utero that can affect all sorts of areas of functioning, including

> empathy levels (not one of my son's strong points).

>

> He was always an intense, strong-willed kid, very tough to

> discipline. I can remember when he was younger I strained my neck

> and shoulders trying to hold his bedroom door closed when I

> attempted to give him " time outs, " such was his determination to be

> “right” all the time—something we constantly battle to this day.

>

> He seems obsessive about following the rules (parking signs,

> cooking instructions on packages of boxed foods, etc.). He also

> makes what seem to be arbitrary rules (arbitrary to us, anyway)

> that dictate various parts of his life. For example, after getting

> frustrated trying to play D & D over the phone with his friend across

> the country, he suddenly proclaimed that he would " never talk on

> the phone again! " Weeks went by before he finally backed down.

>

> He often shows that " brain lock " about

> seemingly unimportant issues--never wearing anything but tie-dye

> shirts for example (which after 4 years has shifted into never

> wearing anything but solid-color tshirts, no pockets). This started

> because, at age 6, he said he would no longer wear anything with a

> logo. He recently announced he would not wear tie-dye because it

> was " embarrassing, " so now plain white is his thing. He uses the

> word “embarrassing” and “embarrassments” a LOT lately—he recently

> said that it’s his “embarrassments” that are his greatest source of

> distress. He tends to want to stay home more than not, and puts up

> a fight against going to most organized activities (plays, movies,

> field trips). We live in a beach community and he says he hates the

> beach, complaining about sand.

>

> One therapist suggested Asperger’s/PDD-NOS, then a pediatric

> neurologist said no way to that. He once flipped out (during an

> extended family gathering) when he

> realized that we didn't have enough matching forks for every place

> setting. When we attempted to reassure him that it was OK, that we

> had other forks we could use, he saw it as a huge catastrophe and

> personal failure on his part, and said he had to cut his head off and

> made gestures toward the kitchen knives. That was about 2 years

> ago, and fortunately nothing that scary has happened again...until the

> other night when he dropped his toothbrush on the bathroom floor

> and said he had to cut his head off.

>

> Re OCD family history: my mom is a hoarder (not to the point

> where the Health Dept. needs to come in, but she's definitely on the

> spectrum) and my sister is one of those people who clean the house

> before the cleaning crew comes in. So maybe sort of some genetic

> issues there. I suffered from eating disorders in college, though

> that was probably caused in part by the intense pressure put on my

> teammates and I (cross country and track) by our coaches to be thin,

> thin, thin. I also have habitually scratched at my ear, much like

> some bite their fingernails, since I was a toddler. I've never been

> too worried about that, but now I see it probably falls under OCD

> spectrum behaviors. Other than that, I’m anxious about staying home

> alone at night when my husband goes away on business (to the point

> where I often stay at my sister’s, though I’m finally starting to

> deal with that and stay home instead).

>

> So, he's got issues with rigidity, extreme levels of perfectionism,

> fears of bathroom germs, and various random anxieties (one example:

> says he'll never set foot in Wyoming since he learned--at the

> sonian, no less--that Wyoming has the highest radon levels of

> any state). And he gets freaked out by thoughts of the future,

> thinking he will be doomed to failure because he can’t possibly

> picture himself a successful member of society.

>

> We are currently seeing a therapist 90 miles away twice

> monthly. We went to her because another homeschool parent

> absolutely raved about the difference she made to his daughter, who

> had/has OCD. So far we have not had much outcome, if any. Although

> she initially believed OCD might be an issue, she’s wavered on that

> dx because “she doesn’t like labels” (although she uses the label

> “gifted” at least 10-15 times per session).

>

> Moreover, she says my son does not see his issues as a

> “problem,” (he has made it very clear he has no desire in changing,

> and is staunchly opposed to meds to the point that he is suspicious

> of vitamins). I tend to agree with her on this point, and feel this

> is one of our biggest challenges: How do you treat someone who

> *strongly* resists treatment?

>

> Instead, she has tried to address our son's anxieties and glum

> outlook on life in general. He started questioning the point of

> existence when he was 5 years old--stood up in church and yelled

> " There is no God! " --and has become increasingly cynical about the

> fate of the earth ever since trying to launch an environmental club

> for kids at age 6 and failing to generate much interest (again,

> perfectionism: he raised nearly $700 for environmental causes, yet

> felt himself a failure because he saw the annual reports from

> Sierra Club, etc. and saw they operated on a budget of $1 million+.)

>

> He’s very resistant to exercise of any kind, by the way, so

> physically he is not getting much if any outlet for his stress.

> About six months ago, he would walk with me (snail pace, but still)

> for an hour every day then one day he just flat-out refused to go,

> and literally laid down on the sidewalk and refused to budge. He

> can be this way with some things (it’s never easy getting him into

> the shower) but at other times he’s polite and agreeable (this is

> why the ODD label never seemed to stick). We travel about 25% of

> the time, and (that last flight aside) he does surprisingly well

> with that. We were in Washington D.C. when that rule first came

> into being about not bringing liquids on the plane, and though I

> practically had an anxiety attack wondering how he’d live without

> his bottles of Purel, he seemed quite calm through it all, despite

> constant blaring announcements through the airport about it. So

> that taught me something: he CAN handle it (at times).

>

> Sorry to have gone on so long!

>

> Cat in Calif.

>

>

>