Re: Next Top Model an AS woman?

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 9/20/2007 4:10:58 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, no_reply writes:

No comments on this article yet?Personally, I think it is atypical for an Aspie to want to perpetuate the "beauty is best" idea by becoming a superficial "America's Top Model."TomAdministrator

I had been thinking about a reply, but nothing good. I agree that it would be odd for her to want to be a model, but then we are all different. My fear is that she will be held up like the token handicapped person, or a special spotlight kind of like the freak show. They might also hype that to play the underdog card with her, which could be easily overdone.

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[Guest guest]

In a message dated 9/20/2007 4:10:58 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, no_reply writes:

No comments on this article yet?Personally, I think it is atypical for an Aspie to want to perpetuate the "beauty is best" idea by becoming a superficial "America's Top Model."TomAdministrator

I had been thinking about a reply, but nothing good. I agree that it would be odd for her to want to be a model, but then we are all different. My fear is that she will be held up like the token handicapped person, or a special spotlight kind of like the freak show. They might also hype that to play the underdog card with her, which could be easily overdone.

See what's new at AOL.com and Make AOL Your Homepage.

[Guest guest]

No comments on this article yet?

Personally, I think it is atypical for an Aspie to want to perpetuate

the " beauty is best " idea by becoming a superficial " America's Top

Model. "

Tom

Administrator

[Guest guest]

No comments on this article yet?

Personally, I think it is atypical for an Aspie to want to perpetuate

the " beauty is best " idea by becoming a superficial " America's Top

Model. "

Tom

Administrator

[Guest guest]

> In a message dated 9/20/2007 4:10:58 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,

> no_reply writes:

>

> No comments on this article yet?

>

> Personally, I think it is atypical for an Aspie to want to perpetuate

> the " beauty is best " idea by becoming a superficial " America's Top

> Model. "

I think it depends on how she's looking at it. At a young age, it's

not easy for anyone to understanding how superficial and exploitive

the model industry... not all NT's buy into it either. For an Aspie

who has stumbled into it by being told she would be good at it and

viewing it in much the same way one might look at acting, I can see it.

At 14 I was approached in a large department store and told I would

make a great model - the woman handed me her business card and when I

asked my parents, they called and were convinced that sending me to

modeling school might boost my confidence. (Which it did as well as

teach me to walk and understand style basics)

Like most other times in my childhood, I was sort of bewildered

though, I didn't feel pretty at all and I KNEW kids at school didn't

think I was... I was skinny and tall though and when I found out that

models made a lot of money, and it sunk in that I might be pretty

afterall, I decided to try it.

So, I went to Barbazon modeling school and if I had parents who would

have been pushing me at all I could see how I might have been sucked

up into it.

To me it seemed stupid to try to have 'attitude' and be 'sexy', but I

figured it was just part of the job (not a part I was very good at

naturally)

Note: I didn't have one clue at how men felt when they looked at

pretty girls wearing barely anything. And I don't think many young

girls do, even NT's. They think sexy = pretty and don't realize they

are being treated like meat.

I dropped out of it because after one job of being in a music video I

found out in this industry I would have to change clothes with other

people (some guys and girls coming in and out, made me feel so self

conscious) and the models that were famous had to travel on their own

to foreign countries and I didn't even like having to arrange to

travel for an hour to the nearest big city.

However, had my parents been enthusiastic of me having a career in

modeling, and helped me get jobs I could have tolerated (I never

minded having my photo taken) - I might have been more into it... But

I never had a 'passion' for it that they said I needed to 'survive'.

So if an aspie girl had been exposed to modeling the way I was up

front - as just a job, and then had the right support to get the right

kinds of jobs, and was obsessed and motivated to do it, I can see her

doing it well.

Besides the exploitive aspect, it's not much different than acting and

there are plenty of aspie actors - well, acting can be very exploitive

too...

[Guest guest]

> In a message dated 9/20/2007 4:10:58 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,

> no_reply writes:

>

> No comments on this article yet?

>

> Personally, I think it is atypical for an Aspie to want to perpetuate

> the " beauty is best " idea by becoming a superficial " America's Top

> Model. "

I think it depends on how she's looking at it. At a young age, it's

not easy for anyone to understanding how superficial and exploitive

the model industry... not all NT's buy into it either. For an Aspie

who has stumbled into it by being told she would be good at it and

viewing it in much the same way one might look at acting, I can see it.

At 14 I was approached in a large department store and told I would

make a great model - the woman handed me her business card and when I

asked my parents, they called and were convinced that sending me to

modeling school might boost my confidence. (Which it did as well as

teach me to walk and understand style basics)

Like most other times in my childhood, I was sort of bewildered

though, I didn't feel pretty at all and I KNEW kids at school didn't

think I was... I was skinny and tall though and when I found out that

models made a lot of money, and it sunk in that I might be pretty

afterall, I decided to try it.

So, I went to Barbazon modeling school and if I had parents who would

have been pushing me at all I could see how I might have been sucked

up into it.

To me it seemed stupid to try to have 'attitude' and be 'sexy', but I

figured it was just part of the job (not a part I was very good at

naturally)

Note: I didn't have one clue at how men felt when they looked at

pretty girls wearing barely anything. And I don't think many young

girls do, even NT's. They think sexy = pretty and don't realize they

are being treated like meat.

I dropped out of it because after one job of being in a music video I

found out in this industry I would have to change clothes with other

people (some guys and girls coming in and out, made me feel so self

conscious) and the models that were famous had to travel on their own

to foreign countries and I didn't even like having to arrange to

travel for an hour to the nearest big city.

However, had my parents been enthusiastic of me having a career in

modeling, and helped me get jobs I could have tolerated (I never

minded having my photo taken) - I might have been more into it... But

I never had a 'passion' for it that they said I needed to 'survive'.

So if an aspie girl had been exposed to modeling the way I was up

front - as just a job, and then had the right support to get the right

kinds of jobs, and was obsessed and motivated to do it, I can see her

doing it well.

Besides the exploitive aspect, it's not much different than acting and

there are plenty of aspie actors - well, acting can be very exploitive

too...

[Guest guest]

" I think it depends on how she's looking at it. At a young age, it's

not easy for anyone to understanding how superficial and exploitive

the model industry... not all NT's buy into it either. For an Aspie

who has stumbled into it by being told she would be good at it and

viewing it in much the same way one might look at acting, I can see it.

" At 14 I was approached in a large department store and told I would

make a great model - "

At what point does someone become self aware though and realize that

the profession they are in may not be the best?

I cannot see how anyone can go into modeling these days with various

studies indicating that large numbers of girls across the continent

are starving themselves to attain anorexicly thin bodies so that they

can have a model's figure.

Axorexia and bullemia are a disease in some people and their are a

multitude of triggers. However, physicians pretty much agree that many

of the very thin models today are unhealthy despite their appearance,

and that people endanger themselves by trying to emulate them.

Why would anyone want to become such a negative role model for so many

people?

I had this opinion formulated well BEFORE the age of 14.

Why didn't you? Or did you ever?

Tom

Administrator

[Guest guest]

" I think it depends on how she's looking at it. At a young age, it's

not easy for anyone to understanding how superficial and exploitive

the model industry... not all NT's buy into it either. For an Aspie

who has stumbled into it by being told she would be good at it and

viewing it in much the same way one might look at acting, I can see it.

" At 14 I was approached in a large department store and told I would

make a great model - "

At what point does someone become self aware though and realize that

the profession they are in may not be the best?

I cannot see how anyone can go into modeling these days with various

studies indicating that large numbers of girls across the continent

are starving themselves to attain anorexicly thin bodies so that they

can have a model's figure.

Axorexia and bullemia are a disease in some people and their are a

multitude of triggers. However, physicians pretty much agree that many

of the very thin models today are unhealthy despite their appearance,

and that people endanger themselves by trying to emulate them.

Why would anyone want to become such a negative role model for so many

people?

I had this opinion formulated well BEFORE the age of 14.

Why didn't you? Or did you ever?

Tom

Administrator

[Guest guest]

> Why would anyone want to become such a negative role model for so

many people?

>

> I had this opinion formulated well BEFORE the age of 14.

>

> Why didn't you? Or did you ever?

Perhaps it's email communication deficiency, but this 'sounds'

extremely condescending to me. Perhaps you are just asking innocently

out of curiosity, but the way you have phrased it has made it very

difficult for me not to take it personally and merely respond

objectively. I am doing my best...

My childhood was very painful and even into my 20's I was clueless

about the way other people experienced life and not self-aware enough

to understand what I was experiencing. I have come a long way, but it

still hurts to be judged for not being 'smart enough' to figure

something out that was so obvious to someone else.

I'm asexual and had no clue about sexuality or exploitation in that

area... Most of the time I felt like a worthless nothing and often

drew pictures of myself as an ugly, skinny, large jointed goon with

pimples all over my face. So when a stranger came up to me and told me

I was beautiful it was astonishing for me. Nobody had ever said that

to me before. I simply did not have the sophistication to understand

that the 'beauty' they see was not something they want to treasure and

celebrate, but to exploit.

So no, at fourteen it wouldn't have occurred to me that by becoming a

model I could become a role model for anorexia - it never would have

crossed my mind that anyone would look to me for anything... all I

thought when I first signed up was that maybe I wasn't such an ugly

twig after all.

If everyone was able to rationalize through that a naturally skinny

girl would be at fault for leading heavier girls to starve themselves,

then yes, they would be CHOOSING to be bad people to make money. But I

don't even think the girls that are starving themselves are doing it

to hurt others, they more than likely think there is something wrong

with themselves and they have to do it to be beautiful enough.

I posted because I wanted to explain how naive girls can be about what

they are getting into. But maybe your point is that an Aspie girl

should know better?

As for right now, I still don't pin the image problem of young teens

on fashion models - they are at an extremely vulnerable age and quite

unprepared to know what they are getting into.

If anyone is to blame for skinny models, it's the rich men and women

who create a market. If they would design decent, well fitting

clothes they wouldn't need walking hangers to display them on.

Again, I apologize if I've come off harsh - you hit close to home and

I feel rather protective of that little girl I used to be. She was

intelligent, but she was very, very naive.

[Guest guest]

> Why would anyone want to become such a negative role model for so

many people?

>

> I had this opinion formulated well BEFORE the age of 14.

>

> Why didn't you? Or did you ever?

Perhaps it's email communication deficiency, but this 'sounds'

extremely condescending to me. Perhaps you are just asking innocently

out of curiosity, but the way you have phrased it has made it very

difficult for me not to take it personally and merely respond

objectively. I am doing my best...

My childhood was very painful and even into my 20's I was clueless

about the way other people experienced life and not self-aware enough

to understand what I was experiencing. I have come a long way, but it

still hurts to be judged for not being 'smart enough' to figure

something out that was so obvious to someone else.

I'm asexual and had no clue about sexuality or exploitation in that

area... Most of the time I felt like a worthless nothing and often

drew pictures of myself as an ugly, skinny, large jointed goon with

pimples all over my face. So when a stranger came up to me and told me

I was beautiful it was astonishing for me. Nobody had ever said that

to me before. I simply did not have the sophistication to understand

that the 'beauty' they see was not something they want to treasure and

celebrate, but to exploit.

So no, at fourteen it wouldn't have occurred to me that by becoming a

model I could become a role model for anorexia - it never would have

crossed my mind that anyone would look to me for anything... all I

thought when I first signed up was that maybe I wasn't such an ugly

twig after all.

If everyone was able to rationalize through that a naturally skinny

girl would be at fault for leading heavier girls to starve themselves,

then yes, they would be CHOOSING to be bad people to make money. But I

don't even think the girls that are starving themselves are doing it

to hurt others, they more than likely think there is something wrong

with themselves and they have to do it to be beautiful enough.

I posted because I wanted to explain how naive girls can be about what

they are getting into. But maybe your point is that an Aspie girl

should know better?

As for right now, I still don't pin the image problem of young teens

on fashion models - they are at an extremely vulnerable age and quite

unprepared to know what they are getting into.

If anyone is to blame for skinny models, it's the rich men and women

who create a market. If they would design decent, well fitting

clothes they wouldn't need walking hangers to display them on.

Again, I apologize if I've come off harsh - you hit close to home and

I feel rather protective of that little girl I used to be. She was

intelligent, but she was very, very naive.

[Guest guest]

Sox wrote: " I think it depends on how she's looking at it. At a young

age, it's not easy for anyone to understanding how superficial and

exploitive the model industry ... not all NT's buy into it either. For

an Aspie who has stumbled into it by being told she would be good at

it and viewing it in much the same way one might look at acting, I can

see it. At 14 I was approached in a large department store and told I

would make a great model - "

Tom wrote: " At what point does someone become self aware though and

realize that the profession they are in may not be the best? I cannot

see how anyone can go into modeling these days ... <snip> ... "

People in another forum are saying that it is wrong and stupid to not

support modelling while supporting acting or singing and such. What

they fail to realize is that it doesn't take much talent, ability or

skill to walk the length of the catwalk and look disinterested in

those in your environment.

No Aspie I know would stumble into modeling based solely on comments

that he or she 'would be good at it' nor would they see it in the same

way on sees acting. An Aspie would ask himself or herself how one

could be perceved as being 'good' at something as basic as walking and

see it with disdain. An Aspie would question what sort of

qualifications are needed to be a 'good' model and come to the

realization quickly that it was an unchallenging career choice that

did not offer much place for advancement or intellectual stimulation.

An Aspie trying desperately to fit into the NT world, however, might

overried his or her nature and force himself or herself into fitting

the model mold in order to feel accepted on some level though.

Raven

Co-Administrator

[Guest guest]

Sox wrote: " ... <snip> ... Perhaps it's email communication

deficiency, but this 'sounds' extremely condescending to me. Perhaps

you are just asking innocently out of curiosity, but the way you have

phrased it has made it very difficult for me not to take it personally

and merely respond objectively. I am doing my best ... <snip> ... "

It's not the way has phrased it that makes it sound that way

but rather the emotions you have overlayed on his words and perhaps

you have so inadvertently. When read without emotions, you will see

nothing condescending about what posted to you.

Raven

Co-Administrator

[Guest guest]

Sox wrote: " ... <snip> ... My childhood was very painful ...

<snip> ... "

I'm not going to compare childhoods here but almost every Aspie I

know experienced a painful childhood, with some much more painful

than others. From what I know of other member's childhoods, I can

say that my childhood was considerably more painful than other

members' childhoods in our discussions of our respective childhoods.

That's just the way things were and our respective pasts have made

each of us the individuals we are today.

Sox wrote: " ... <snip> ... even into my 20's I was clueless about

the way other people experienced life and not self-aware enough to

understand what I was experiencing ... <snip> ... "

I am in my 40s and still clueless on many levels about the way other

people experience life. That being said, how others experience life

has very little to do with how I interpret my own life as I live it.

Understanding how other people experience life has nothing whatsoever

to do with being self-aware. How you perceive yourself moving

through this world has to do with being self-aware.

Sox 100 wrote: " ... <snip> ... I have come a long way, but it still

hurts to be judged for not being 'smart enough' to figure something

out that was so obvious to someone else ... <snip> ... "

This is your misinterpretation of ' post because you are seeing

it from your painful past and overlaying emotions on his words that

were not there when he wrote them. He didn't write that you weren't

smart enough to figure anything out. He asked how it came to be that

this escaped you. Asking such questions helps others understand how

you perceive, internalize and interpret the world around you.

Sox 100 wrote: " ... <snip> ... So no, at fourteen it wouldn't have

occurred to me that by becoming a model I could become a role model

for anorexia - it never would have crossed my mind that anyone would

look to me for anything ... <snip> ... "

I find that surprising because had it been me, I would have

researched what was involved in being a model and how it would impact

the world. In fact, at 13 I was tapped to be a photographer's model

for a series of slides and before agreeing to being the 'central'

figure of the series of slides, I asked many pertinent questions.

The purpose of the slides was that they were needed for a

presentation on consumerism and its impact on youth. There were many

shots taken where my sole 'role' was to hold up various products --

some that supposedly appealed to teens, some that supposedly appealed

to adults, and some that supposedly appealed to both teens and

adults -- and to monkey appropriate facial expressions.

It seemed like a good idea, when all was taken into account, to

participate since it met with my standards (ie. no skimpy clothing

involved and no portrayals of activities that went against my moral

standards); it formed part of a legitimate study that was now being

prepared for presentation at a medium sized conference; I was paid a

reasonable amount of money for my time; I was not exploited; I was

not going to be tarted up to look like some tramp; I was not

ridiculed or marginalized as a youth;I wasn't going to have to lose

tons of weight in order to 'look' like a perfect model (in other

words, I was ok being a person of not six 8 proportions).

It was also the last time I did any modeling because it was

exceedingly boring and not rewarding past the paycheque.

Sox 100 wrote: " ... <snip> ... all I thought when I first signed up

was that maybe I wasn't such an ugly twig after all ... <snip> ... "

I have never fit the traditional or contemporary definitions

of 'beauty' and even though I am not beautiful by those standards, I

have not valued who I am based on my dashing different looks. LOL.

Sox 100 wrote: " ... <snip> ... I posted because I wanted to explain

how naive girls can be about what they are getting into. But maybe

your point is that an Aspie girl should know better? ... <snip> ... "

I have difficulty believing that a female Aspling would get into

modeling -- to the degree that this " Next Top Model " has involved

herself -- due to naivete, Sox. There must be something else in it

that drives her to do this debasing competition that puts a vacuous

career on a pedestal.

What I oculd see is a female Aspie going into this " Next Top Model "

competition as a way to prove to others that it's a ridiculous career

and an even more ridiculous competition. Why do I say this? Because

in my career, I have done a few such things myself all in the hope of

opening my colleague's eyes up to the ridiculousness of the situation.

Aside from that, I cannot for the life of me imagine why an

individual with AS would consider modeling as a career option.

Raven

Co-Administrator

[Guest guest]

Sox wrote: " ... <snip> ... My childhood was very painful ...

<snip> ... "

I'm not going to compare childhoods here but almost every Aspie I

know experienced a painful childhood, with some much more painful

than others. From what I know of other member's childhoods, I can

say that my childhood was considerably more painful than other

members' childhoods in our discussions of our respective childhoods.

That's just the way things were and our respective pasts have made

each of us the individuals we are today.

Sox wrote: " ... <snip> ... even into my 20's I was clueless about

the way other people experienced life and not self-aware enough to

understand what I was experiencing ... <snip> ... "

I am in my 40s and still clueless on many levels about the way other

people experience life. That being said, how others experience life

has very little to do with how I interpret my own life as I live it.

Understanding how other people experience life has nothing whatsoever

to do with being self-aware. How you perceive yourself moving

through this world has to do with being self-aware.

Sox 100 wrote: " ... <snip> ... I have come a long way, but it still

hurts to be judged for not being 'smart enough' to figure something

out that was so obvious to someone else ... <snip> ... "

This is your misinterpretation of ' post because you are seeing

it from your painful past and overlaying emotions on his words that

were not there when he wrote them. He didn't write that you weren't

smart enough to figure anything out. He asked how it came to be that

this escaped you. Asking such questions helps others understand how

you perceive, internalize and interpret the world around you.

Sox 100 wrote: " ... <snip> ... So no, at fourteen it wouldn't have

occurred to me that by becoming a model I could become a role model

for anorexia - it never would have crossed my mind that anyone would

look to me for anything ... <snip> ... "

I find that surprising because had it been me, I would have

researched what was involved in being a model and how it would impact

the world. In fact, at 13 I was tapped to be a photographer's model

for a series of slides and before agreeing to being the 'central'

figure of the series of slides, I asked many pertinent questions.

The purpose of the slides was that they were needed for a

presentation on consumerism and its impact on youth. There were many

shots taken where my sole 'role' was to hold up various products --

some that supposedly appealed to teens, some that supposedly appealed

to adults, and some that supposedly appealed to both teens and

adults -- and to monkey appropriate facial expressions.

It seemed like a good idea, when all was taken into account, to

participate since it met with my standards (ie. no skimpy clothing

involved and no portrayals of activities that went against my moral

standards); it formed part of a legitimate study that was now being

prepared for presentation at a medium sized conference; I was paid a

reasonable amount of money for my time; I was not exploited; I was

not going to be tarted up to look like some tramp; I was not

ridiculed or marginalized as a youth;I wasn't going to have to lose

tons of weight in order to 'look' like a perfect model (in other

words, I was ok being a person of not six 8 proportions).

It was also the last time I did any modeling because it was

exceedingly boring and not rewarding past the paycheque.

Sox 100 wrote: " ... <snip> ... all I thought when I first signed up

was that maybe I wasn't such an ugly twig after all ... <snip> ... "

I have never fit the traditional or contemporary definitions

of 'beauty' and even though I am not beautiful by those standards, I

have not valued who I am based on my dashing different looks. LOL.

Sox 100 wrote: " ... <snip> ... I posted because I wanted to explain

how naive girls can be about what they are getting into. But maybe

your point is that an Aspie girl should know better? ... <snip> ... "

I have difficulty believing that a female Aspling would get into

modeling -- to the degree that this " Next Top Model " has involved

herself -- due to naivete, Sox. There must be something else in it

that drives her to do this debasing competition that puts a vacuous

career on a pedestal.

What I oculd see is a female Aspie going into this " Next Top Model "

competition as a way to prove to others that it's a ridiculous career

and an even more ridiculous competition. Why do I say this? Because

in my career, I have done a few such things myself all in the hope of

opening my colleague's eyes up to the ridiculousness of the situation.

Aside from that, I cannot for the life of me imagine why an

individual with AS would consider modeling as a career option.

Raven

Co-Administrator

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 9/21/2007 12:58:42 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, aspie_girl@... writes:

This is exactly the reason why I did so well in themilitary. Everything was spelled out. Nothing vaguethat I had to figure out on my own. Since I am veryrule oriented, I had no problem following orders orrespecting authority figures, even if I disagreed withthem. They were the boss, not me. As long as they didnot order me to do anything against my ethics ormorals, I had no problem doing what they said.

Interesting that you mention this. I went to a military high school. The structure and order was very good for me. It was nice having meals ready at certain times, not having to worry about what to wear, most days being scheduled and so on. Didn't actually go into the military for medical reasons though. I was also sort of a boss within the system. I knew my place in the organization and how everyone else related to me, who was above and who was below. We also had a clear cut set of regulations, not all that many but they were clear, that everyone lived by.

Very nice.

See what's new at AOL.com and Make AOL Your Homepage.

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 9/21/2007 12:58:42 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, aspie_girl@... writes:

This is exactly the reason why I did so well in themilitary. Everything was spelled out. Nothing vaguethat I had to figure out on my own. Since I am veryrule oriented, I had no problem following orders orrespecting authority figures, even if I disagreed withthem. They were the boss, not me. As long as they didnot order me to do anything against my ethics ormorals, I had no problem doing what they said.

Interesting that you mention this. I went to a military high school. The structure and order was very good for me. It was nice having meals ready at certain times, not having to worry about what to wear, most days being scheduled and so on. Didn't actually go into the military for medical reasons though. I was also sort of a boss within the system. I knew my place in the organization and how everyone else related to me, who was above and who was below. We also had a clear cut set of regulations, not all that many but they were clear, that everyone lived by.

Very nice.

See what's new at AOL.com and Make AOL Your Homepage.

[Guest guest]

> People in another forum are saying that it is wrong and stupid to

not support modelling while supporting acting or singing and such.

What they fail to realize is that it doesn't take much talent, ability

or skill to walk the length of the catwalk and look disinterested in

those in your environment.

Maybe it's not talent, but there is something that some people can do

that others don't seem to be able to. And seriously, how many famous

actors or singers are 'that' talented?

It's more about being at the right place at the right time in any of

these industries than being superbly 'talented'.

> No Aspie I know would stumble into modeling based solely on comments

> that he or she 'would be good at it' nor would they see it in the

same way on sees acting. An Aspie would ask himself or herself how

one could be perceved as being 'good' at something as basic as walking

and see it with disdain. An Aspie would question what sort of

qualifications are needed to be a 'good' model and come to the

realization quickly that it was an unchallenging career choice that

did not offer much place for advancement or intellectual stimulation.

Are you saying that all aspies everywhere are able to think through

the career choice options they might be presented at 14, research all

the pros and cons and know themselves well enough to figure out if

something is for them or not? That just doesn't sound likely...

All I was trying to say is that based on the reasons I took a course

and did one job, I don't think everyone who gets into it (aspie or

not) does so because they realize the ramifications.

I can completely understand and agree that an aspie STAYING in it to

the point of achieving success would be more taxing and difficult

based on the social requirements and nature of the industry.

> An Aspie trying desperately to fit into the NT world, however, might

> overried his or her nature and force himself or herself into fitting

> the model mold in order to feel accepted on some level though.

I'm curious to hear why this " Top Model " contestant has continued to

pursue it in her own words.

[Guest guest]

" ... <snip> ... even into my 20's I was clueless about

> the way other people experienced life and not self-aware enough to

> understand what I was experiencing ... <snip> ... "

>

> I am in my 40s and still clueless on many levels about the way other

> people experience life. That being said, how others experience life

> has very little to do with how I interpret my own life as I live it.

> Understanding how other people experience life has nothing whatsoever

> to do with being self-aware. How you perceive yourself moving

> through this world has to do with being self-aware.

What I meant was that I didn't know that other people experienced the

world differently than myself, and it wasn't until I started to

understand there was a difference that I realized why I didn't get them.

I don't have to understand how they experience the world, but

understanding that my reaction to the world was different from theirs

because my experience was different helped me to become self-aware.

For instance: Other people like noisy, social places and have fun and

are in a good mood. I get withdrawn and uncomfortable and am less than

fun to be around. I ASSUME the problem is with me - I'm not social

enough, I'm boring, people don't like me, etc. I get angry and mad at

them for not accepting me or for being obnoxious.

Then I find out about sensory overload and that other people are not

experiencing it.

So now when I'm in a noisy, social peace I am self aware enough to

remove myself if I'm getting sensory overload. I still don't completely

understand their experience, but now I have room for the difference.

I am 37 and I don't consider myself 'clueless' about what others

experience anymore - not because I share it, but because I can

rationalize how they may feel. This understanding has come through

talking with people close to me about what they experience and comparing

notes to what I experience.

Had I this understanding as a child I would have been much more

sensitive and less judgmental and I would have probably had more

friends. Right now I am teaching my son to understand these

differences, not so he can mimic others, but so that when he encounters

behavior he doesn't understand he'll be able to think through to the

reason behind it and not make assumptions, like I did.

> Aside from that, I cannot for the life of me imagine why an

> individual with AS would consider modeling as a career option.

Maybe I don't understand aspieness enough, but I don't know why all

aspies should think the same about career options. Isn't it the way

aspies think that makes them similar, and not the conclusions they come

to?

It reminds me of a discussion I've heard among aspies regarding

religion or politics. One group thinks that no aspies should be

religious, because religion is just so obviously for people who don't

think through things and like to be sheep. While the other side thinks

religion is natural for an aspie because it provides rules, structure

and consistency. Or someone who thinks aspies must be conservative

because they don't like change, and liberals are about change, but

others think conservatives are all religious or, again with the sheep.

So the way I figure it, aspies can come to different conclusions using

similar techniques.

I don't know why this girl wants to be a model, I gave one possible

scenario, and I understand why you reject it, but as I said in the

other thread, I would like to hear her reasoning in her own words.

[Guest guest]

" ... <snip> ... even into my 20's I was clueless about

> the way other people experienced life and not self-aware enough to

> understand what I was experiencing ... <snip> ... "

>

> I am in my 40s and still clueless on many levels about the way other

> people experience life. That being said, how others experience life

> has very little to do with how I interpret my own life as I live it.

> Understanding how other people experience life has nothing whatsoever

> to do with being self-aware. How you perceive yourself moving

> through this world has to do with being self-aware.

What I meant was that I didn't know that other people experienced the

world differently than myself, and it wasn't until I started to

understand there was a difference that I realized why I didn't get them.

I don't have to understand how they experience the world, but

understanding that my reaction to the world was different from theirs

because my experience was different helped me to become self-aware.

For instance: Other people like noisy, social places and have fun and

are in a good mood. I get withdrawn and uncomfortable and am less than

fun to be around. I ASSUME the problem is with me - I'm not social

enough, I'm boring, people don't like me, etc. I get angry and mad at

them for not accepting me or for being obnoxious.

Then I find out about sensory overload and that other people are not

experiencing it.

So now when I'm in a noisy, social peace I am self aware enough to

remove myself if I'm getting sensory overload. I still don't completely

understand their experience, but now I have room for the difference.

I am 37 and I don't consider myself 'clueless' about what others

experience anymore - not because I share it, but because I can

rationalize how they may feel. This understanding has come through

talking with people close to me about what they experience and comparing

notes to what I experience.

Had I this understanding as a child I would have been much more

sensitive and less judgmental and I would have probably had more

friends. Right now I am teaching my son to understand these

differences, not so he can mimic others, but so that when he encounters

behavior he doesn't understand he'll be able to think through to the

reason behind it and not make assumptions, like I did.

> Aside from that, I cannot for the life of me imagine why an

> individual with AS would consider modeling as a career option.

Maybe I don't understand aspieness enough, but I don't know why all

aspies should think the same about career options. Isn't it the way

aspies think that makes them similar, and not the conclusions they come

to?

It reminds me of a discussion I've heard among aspies regarding

religion or politics. One group thinks that no aspies should be

religious, because religion is just so obviously for people who don't

think through things and like to be sheep. While the other side thinks

religion is natural for an aspie because it provides rules, structure

and consistency. Or someone who thinks aspies must be conservative

because they don't like change, and liberals are about change, but

others think conservatives are all religious or, again with the sheep.

So the way I figure it, aspies can come to different conclusions using

similar techniques.

I don't know why this girl wants to be a model, I gave one possible

scenario, and I understand why you reject it, but as I said in the

other thread, I would like to hear her reasoning in her own words.

[Guest guest]

Tom wrote:

> Personally, I think it is atypical for an Aspie to

> want to perpetuate

> the " beauty is best " idea by becoming a superficial

> " America's Top

> Model. "

I don't think she sees it that way. I watched her

interview on the CW website,and she likes being made

up and dressed up, and from the way she talked about

it, this was the biggest draw for her. Also it seems

that she was persuaded by friends and family to apply

for the show. From what she said, she would not have

otherwise.

She seems to like the sensory stimulation of people

touching her hair and such. [i wouldn't! I only go to

the hairdresser when I absolutely have to.] She also

states that she comes alive in front of a camera, and

is otherwise reserved.

In any case, I am interested to see how she fares on

the show.

Take care,

Gail :-)

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[Guest guest]

Sox wrote:

> I posted because I wanted to explain how naive girls

> can be about what

> they are getting into.

What you wrote brought back memories of how naive I

used to be! I am way more savvy now, but back then I

was dumber than a box of rocks about social things.

Clueless about the implications of certain things, way

too easy to take advantage of.

Some of my teachers in school saw this naivete of mine

and worried about me. They were concerned that someone

could and would do me great harm. Let's put it this

way. I had no idea what intercourse was until I was

about 14 and discovered my father's porn books. I

remember thinking, " You mean THAT goes THERE??!!! " I

was astounded.

It was not until then that I realized the full

implications of what my uncle had done to me as a

child [making me touch his privates]. I knew it was

gross [it felt like rubber], and made me

uncomfortable, but I did not have a clue as to the

sexual nature of it.

This is also why some people thought I was a game

player as a child and teen. I was obviously

intelligent in other areas, so they could not believe

that someone so otherwise smart could be *that*

socially stupid or naive at my age then.

Take care,

Gail :-)

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[Guest guest]

Sox wrote:

> I posted because I wanted to explain how naive girls

> can be about what

> they are getting into.

What you wrote brought back memories of how naive I

used to be! I am way more savvy now, but back then I

was dumber than a box of rocks about social things.

Clueless about the implications of certain things, way

too easy to take advantage of.

Some of my teachers in school saw this naivete of mine

and worried about me. They were concerned that someone

could and would do me great harm. Let's put it this

way. I had no idea what intercourse was until I was

about 14 and discovered my father's porn books. I

remember thinking, " You mean THAT goes THERE??!!! " I

was astounded.

It was not until then that I realized the full

implications of what my uncle had done to me as a

child [making me touch his privates]. I knew it was

gross [it felt like rubber], and made me

uncomfortable, but I did not have a clue as to the

sexual nature of it.

This is also why some people thought I was a game

player as a child and teen. I was obviously

intelligent in other areas, so they could not believe

that someone so otherwise smart could be *that*

socially stupid or naive at my age then.

Take care,

Gail :-)

________________________________________________________________________________\

____

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[Guest guest]

Raven wrote:

> An Aspie trying desperately to fit into the NT

> world, however, might

> overried his or her nature and force himself or

> herself into fitting

> the model mold in order to feel accepted on some

> level though.\

We have bingo! Been there, done that. Not modeling,

but with other things.

Take care,

Gail :-)

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[Guest guest]

" It reminds me of a discussion I've heard among aspies regarding

religion or politics. One group thinks that no aspies should be

religious, because religion is just so obviously for people who don't

think through things and like to be sheep. While the other side thinks

religion is natural for an aspie because it provides rules, structure

and consistency. Or someone who thinks aspies must be conservative

because they don't like change, and liberals are about change, but

others think conservatives are all religious or, again with the sheep. "

I've gotten caught up in such discussions, and they are interesting.

My take on it though is that if the Aspie is not deeply involved in

their religion, they may not be able to see the sense in it. But if

they study it deeply, it makes sense not just in terms of God, but

EVERYTHING.

Tom

Administrator

[Guest guest]

I also wanted to say that she might like the structure

of people telling her exactly what to do. Sit, stand,

look at the camera this way, etc. Nothing to figure

out or mystery as to what to do next.

This is exactly the reason why I did so well in the

military. Everything was spelled out. Nothing vague

that I had to figure out on my own. Since I am very

rule oriented, I had no problem following orders or

respecting authority figures, even if I disagreed with

them. They were the boss, not me. As long as they did

not order me to do anything against my ethics or

morals, I had no problem doing what they said.

When I was a child and teen, being put in situations

where I did not know what to do or act caused me great

anxiety. Being called a retard, or game playing, for

not knowing what to do did not help. So a situation

where everything was spelled out for me was quite

appealing. People did not think I would do well in the

military, that I would wash out, but I did not,

because I thrived on the structure of it.

Take care,

Gail :-)

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