Re: Secondary gain?

[Guest guest]

Wow, I can't emagine their being any secondary gain. My son does not

get any reward for his success or struggles. I guess, a year ago, I

was told by my doctor to sleep with him, since that was the only way

anyone would get any sleep...at least until his medication kicked

in. I don't see that as a reward though. He ends up being the main

concern when it comes to going places, or having company over etc.

But I don't think that he takes any pleasure in his pain. I don't

understand what your doctor was refering to. Does she think he fakes

it. There were a lot of hard lessons my son had to learn. I have 6

kids in my house, and yes his OCD affected everyone, but he had no

right..to offend or abuse anyone. He is 8 years old, and I don't let

him play me. I know when he is struggling, he knows when he is

struggling, and we both know when he is just trying to manipulate a

situation. So, I help him when I can, correct him when he needs it,

and consistantly let him know that he ultimately determines what kind

of day he will have. With training, they can learn how to fight the

OCD or if they chose to live a miserable helpless existance, they can

let the OCD swallow them up. I'm teaching my son, that he HAS to be

responsible for his OCD. He has to take his medicine, he has to

fight the OCD when it comes at him full force. And it is not easy.

It is exhausting, and painful, and frustrating. But that is what

needs to be done. Set limits, if your son wants to talk about being

miserable, if his OCD says he has to tell you that...tell him, that

you think he says that to you, because the OCD tells him to say that

to you, but your not going to listen to it. He can say it to you

once a day, then, he has to fight it. Or he can say it 3 times a

day. What ever is less, than what he says on a daily basis. Reward

him, with time...15 minutes extra at something at the end of the day,

if he sticks to the rules. If he doesn't stick to the rule send him

to his room..refuse to listen to him...make him go think about the

OCD. My son went through a raging period, where he would get angry

about everything. He was sick of OCD, sick of dealing with it, sick

of fighting it. He was down right angry. And it was then that I was

able to explain to him, how OCD gets stronger if we let it, and

weaker, smaller, if we deal with the issues as they arise. There is

always something. We learn everything in hind sight. I don't know

how to deal with something new, until after. When he is calm, we

talk about the situation, make rules for that situation, then tend to

it. Sometimes things pass quickly. Somethings will always be in the

background of his mind,,,and when he is upset or tired or hungry,

they get the best of him. It is going to be a long road...so best

figure out if it is a real thing he is complaining about, or if it is

just something he has to say, then set limits, deal with the

compulsions, and reward the success with time. I hope you do not

take any offence to my straight forwardness....I mean well, and hope

this helps. Take care,

Wow

>

> My dh and I saw a marriage/family counselor today to

> work on problems in our relationship, and to probe how

> the family is functioning, or not functioning. She of

> course was very interested in my son's OCD and, being

> a clinical social worker, wondered if it was really

> biologically based or an anxiety overload due to

> stresses at home, school etc.

>

> Anyway, she asked if we thought he was getting any

> " secondary gain " from his OCD. That's the second time

> I've heard that from a professional regarding our son,

> who you'll remember has been doing some half-baked

> self-harming behaviors lately and acts very happy all

> day while telling me he's miserable. I do believe he

> gets LOTS of attention for this OCD. How have you all

> helped your children without " rewarding " them for

> their special problem?

>

> Thanks in advance,

>

> F.

>

>

>

>

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[Guest guest]

Hi - I also had someone suggest that my son is " getting " something from the

attention of OCD. At the time when he asked " What is DS getting " I said nothing,

" he's scared, having panic attacks, thinks he's dying, etc " but I don't know if

somewhere in there he feels like he gets something out of it.

I also listened to a video about anxiety (including OCD, panic, phobias) and

the speaker who has been through years of disabling anxiety that ruled his life

until he freed himself said that the person has to be the one to decide to

overcome the anxiety, face it, not give into it. Their response to the fear

(doing a ritual, having the panic attack) is what keeps them locked in that

cycle.

So I don't think any child sets out to gain attention by having OCD or panic

but *maybe* once they have it, they gain some amount of relief by giving into

the ritual or thought as opposed to standing up to it and refusing to compile

with it (because that's hard and scary). Maybe that's what the social worker was

referring to.

Joy

lisa fishman <noahfsmom@...> wrote:

My dh and I saw a marriage/family counselor today to

work on problems in our relationship, and to probe how

the family is functioning, or not functioning. She of

course was very interested in my son's OCD and, being

a clinical social worker, wondered if it was really

biologically based or an anxiety overload due to

stresses at home, school etc.

Anyway, she asked if we thought he was getting any

" secondary gain " from his OCD. That's the second time

I've heard that from a professional regarding our son,

who you'll remember has been doing some half-baked

self-harming behaviors lately and acts very happy all

day while telling me he's miserable. I do believe he

gets LOTS of attention for this OCD. How have you all

helped your children without " rewarding " them for

their special problem?

Thanks in advance,

F.

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[Guest guest]

Thanks for the response, Joy.

No, the social worker actually thought he might be

getting special attention that he was otherwise

lacking (he once expressed to me that his sister and

brother got all the attention because of their

" problems " ). Of course, that social worker hasn't

watched my son toss and turn at night unable to sleep

because of his intrusive OCD thoughts.

While I do spend more time with him to listen to his

OCD problems, I'm sure any " secondary gain " he may be

getting pales in comparison to the torture of his

disease. Just to be sure, I want to try to give him

attention and time that is non-OCD related, and

minimize the time and attention that is.

F.

--- Joy Guzman <maryjoyguzman@...>

wrote:

> Hi - I also had someone suggest that my son is

> " getting " something from the attention of OCD. At

> the time when he asked " What is DS getting " I said

> nothing, " he's scared, having panic attacks, thinks

> he's dying, etc " but I don't know if somewhere in

> there he feels like he gets something out of it.

>

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[Guest guest]

,

Well, in our case, I've seen no " secondary attention " with my OCD'er.

In fact, it's the opposite. She wants to be like everyone else, not

talk about it unless we have to, not go to extra Dr. appts and get

pulled out of school, etc. etc. When she is going well, like she is

right now, there is no trace of the anxiety and she is like every other

12 yr. old. She almost forgets that she's had difficult times in the

past. When she is tormented by bad thoughts, her whole life gets put on

hold and she is miserable. Sure, we have to give her extra attention

because her anxiety is so high, but then things get straightened out and

life goes back to normal. I guess it would be no different than my

friend who has a child with cancer. He gets extra attention too because

he needs it. Special care, can't leave the house because of immune

levels at times, and other things. But he longs to be " normal " and when

things are going well, their family gets back on an even keel. Her

family cycles seem a lot like ours with our OCD'er.

So, I would be skeptical of the " attention seeking " comments.

Just our experience!

Dina

[Guest guest]

,

One more thing I forgot to mention. The first psychiatrist that we took

our then 7 yr. old DD to when we had no idea what in the world was wrong

with her did all sorts of unhelpful talk therapy. Her OCD began the

month her twin brothers were born, so the psych. immediately told us it

was because she wasn't getting enough attention from us and to make sure

we had special dates, etc. Well, she got no better even though we

showered her with attention and it took another psychiatrist to

recognize the OCD and put her on meds. At this point she was so ill she

needed to be hospitalized. After her meds kicked in about a month

later, she morphed back into the sweet girl that we knew from before. I

was so mad that we spent so much time and my daughter was so miserable

(she stopped eating) for MONTHS before we took her to someone who

actually helped us. My daughter wasnt' jealous of her new brothers, she

had OCD. She still cries about the time she missed with them as babies

because she was too anxious/sick to hold them much.

Dina

[Guest guest]

F.

Dr. Wagner in her book stressed having YAMA (you and me alone) time of 15

minutes a day, whether things are going good or bad with the ocd. That time is

to be spent talking, doing something together, etc. but you cannot talk about

the ocd/anxiety, etc. It has helped alot with my daughter. I don't do it every

single day, but try to do it 3-4 times a week with all of my children.

in TN

lisa fishman <noahfsmom@...> wrote:

Thanks for the response, Joy.

No, the social worker actually thought he might be

getting special attention that he was otherwise

lacking (he once expressed to me that his sister and

brother got all the attention because of their

" problems " ). Of course, that social worker hasn't

watched my son toss and turn at night unable to sleep

because of his intrusive OCD thoughts.

While I do spend more time with him to listen to his

OCD problems, I'm sure any " secondary gain " he may be

getting pales in comparison to the torture of his

disease. Just to be sure, I want to try to give him

attention and time that is non-OCD related, and

minimize the time and attention that is.

F.

--- Joy Guzman <maryjoyguzman@...>

wrote:

> Hi - I also had someone suggest that my son is

> " getting " something from the attention of OCD. At

> the time when he asked " What is DS getting " I said

> nothing, " he's scared, having panic attacks, thinks

> he's dying, etc " but I don't know if somewhere in

> there he feels like he gets something out of it.

>

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[Guest guest]

Sounds like a good idea. Thanks, .

c ward <cward_ri@...> wrote: F.

Dr. Wagner in her book stressed having YAMA (you and me alone) time of 15

minutes a day, whether things are going good or bad with the ocd. That time is

to be spent talking, doing something together, etc. but you cannot talk about

the ocd/anxiety, etc. It has helped alot with my daughter. I don't do it every

single day, but try to do it 3-4 times a week with all of my children.

in TN

lisa fishman <noahfsmom@...> wrote:

Thanks for the response, Joy.

No, the social worker actually thought he might be

getting special attention that he was otherwise

lacking (he once expressed to me that his sister and

brother got all the attention because of their

" problems " ). Of course, that social worker hasn't

watched my son toss and turn at night unable to sleep

because of his intrusive OCD thoughts.

While I do spend more time with him to listen to his

OCD problems, I'm sure any " secondary gain " he may be

getting pales in comparison to the torture of his

disease. Just to be sure, I want to try to give him

attention and time that is non-OCD related, and

minimize the time and attention that is.

F.

--- Joy Guzman <maryjoyguzman@...>

wrote:

> Hi - I also had someone suggest that my son is

> " getting " something from the attention of OCD. At

> the time when he asked " What is DS getting " I said

> nothing, " he's scared, having panic attacks, thinks

> he's dying, etc " but I don't know if somewhere in

> there he feels like he gets something out of it.

>

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[Guest guest]

Sounds like a good idea. Thanks, .

c ward <cward_ri@...> wrote: F.

Dr. Wagner in her book stressed having YAMA (you and me alone) time of 15

minutes a day, whether things are going good or bad with the ocd. That time is

to be spent talking, doing something together, etc. but you cannot talk about

the ocd/anxiety, etc. It has helped alot with my daughter. I don't do it every

single day, but try to do it 3-4 times a week with all of my children.

in TN

lisa fishman <noahfsmom@...> wrote:

Thanks for the response, Joy.

No, the social worker actually thought he might be

getting special attention that he was otherwise

lacking (he once expressed to me that his sister and

brother got all the attention because of their

" problems " ). Of course, that social worker hasn't

watched my son toss and turn at night unable to sleep

because of his intrusive OCD thoughts.

While I do spend more time with him to listen to his

OCD problems, I'm sure any " secondary gain " he may be

getting pales in comparison to the torture of his

disease. Just to be sure, I want to try to give him

attention and time that is non-OCD related, and

minimize the time and attention that is.

F.

--- Joy Guzman <maryjoyguzman@...>

wrote:

> Hi - I also had someone suggest that my son is

> " getting " something from the attention of OCD. At

> the time when he asked " What is DS getting " I said

> nothing, " he's scared, having panic attacks, thinks

> he's dying, etc " but I don't know if somewhere in

> there he feels like he gets something out of it.

>

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