Re: How many studies does it take to satisfy a crank?

[Guest guest]

As long as there is money, from private donations and the government, studies will keep being done and the controversy will continue.

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[Guest guest]

In a message dated 6/29/2007 9:17:07 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, 6emini@... writes:

Figures often beguile me, particularly when I have the arranging of them myself; in which case the remark attributed to Disraeli would often apply with justice and force: "There are three kinds of lies: lies, damned lies and statistics."- Autobiography of Mark Twain

Kim

Very good. One of my favorite quotes. Never seen it in context before.

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[Guest guest]

In a message dated 6/29/2007 10:40:04 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, 6emini@... writes:

Every day when I read the paper and see numbers put forth, I think ofthis quote. It is too easy to manipulate "surveys" to prove ahypothesied theory so I rarely believe in them or take them as fact. Everyone has an agenda.Kim

In the business course I took, a lot of that was covered, especially in the marketing and statistics classes. It is very easy to rig a survey or to spin the results so that it seems to favor your position. This is true enough, that unless I can read the exact questions in the exact order in which they were presented, then I don't put much stock in them. There are other ways to stack a survey too, like targeted those you want to question, the way questions are ordered, even the presenter's tone of voice when asking the question and their reactions to the answers.

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[Guest guest]

>> http://scienceblogs.com/denialism/2007/06/how_many_studies_does_it_tak> e.php> > How many studies does it take to satisfy a crank?

Figures often beguile me, particularly when I have the arranging of them myself; in which case the remark attributed to Disraeli would often apply with justice and force: "There are three kinds of lies: lies, damned lies and statistics."- Autobiography of Mark Twain

Kim

[Guest guest]

>> http://scienceblogs.com/denialism/2007/06/how_many_studies_does_it_tak> e.php> > How many studies does it take to satisfy a crank?

Figures often beguile me, particularly when I have the arranging of them myself; in which case the remark attributed to Disraeli would often apply with justice and force: "There are three kinds of lies: lies, damned lies and statistics."- Autobiography of Mark Twain

Kim

[Guest guest]

Every day when I read the paper and see numbers put forth, I think of

this quote. It is too easy to manipulate " surveys " to prove a

hypothesied theory so I rarely believe in them or take them as fact.

Everyone has an agenda.

Kim

[Guest guest]

The same can be said of poor scientific procedure and those who want so

badly to have their hard work proven correct that they forget what is

most important, the truth. My children have a world class science

teacher who drilled them that the results are only as good as the test,

procedure, method, & materials used to gain the data. You can NOT

change your hypothesis or skew your results to prove that what you

thought would happen did.

When my youngest worked on his science project, he wanted to know which

would bounce higher, a small or large rubber ball. His procedure,

unlike many of his peers, was very lengthy, thirty two steps and thanks

to video, had all drops taped. His teacher even used his reference list

as an example for the upper grades as to how many sources and the types

of sources they should have for their own projects. If he had been in

the 7th grade, his paper would have gone on to the city wide

competition.

Ok, I'm proud of him. ; )

Kim

> In the business course I took, a lot of that was covered, especially

in the

> marketing and statistics classes. It is very easy to rig a survey or

to spin

> the results so that it seems to favor your position. This is true

enough, that

> unless I can read the exact questions in the exact order in which they

were

> presented, then I don't put much stock in them. There are other ways

to stack

> a survey too, like targeted those you want to question, the way

questions

> are ordered, even the presenter's tone of voice when asking the

question and

> their reactions to the answers.

[Guest guest]

" Ok, I'm proud of him. ; ) "

Sounds like a cool child :-) Brilliant that he took the time to be

thorough when so many would not.

>

>

> The same can be said of poor scientific procedure and those who

want so

> badly to have their hard work proven correct that they forget what

is

> most important, the truth. My children have a world class science

> teacher who drilled them that the results are only as good as the

test,

> procedure, method, & materials used to gain the data. You can NOT

> change your hypothesis or skew your results to prove that what you

> thought would happen did.

>

> When my youngest worked on his science project, he wanted to know

which

> would bounce higher, a small or large rubber ball. His procedure,

> unlike many of his peers, was very lengthy, thirty two steps and

thanks

> to video, had all drops taped. His teacher even used his reference

list

> as an example for the upper grades as to how many sources and the

types

> of sources they should have for their own projects. If he had

been in

> the 7th grade, his paper would have gone on to the city wide

> competition.

>

> Ok, I'm proud of him. ; )

>

> Kim