Guest guest Posted August 14, 2011 Report Share Posted August 14, 2011 Hi, I just wanted to say that I had a quadruple coronary bypass 2 weeks ago that was necessary because of blockages caused by HIV medications. It took me well over a year and changing doctors four times to find one that would order the necessary test (Stress Test, in my case). Because I looked " healthy " and the EKG's in the office showed no abnormalities, I was told that my breathing issues were 1) lung related or 2) anxiety driven. My purpose in writing this is to affirm that WE know our bodies better than anyone and when something is wrong, WE know it and must not stop until the truth is revealed. My recovery is going very well and I am feeling better than I did before the surgery. Best to you all, Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 15, 2011 Report Share Posted August 15, 2011 I am glad your perseverance paid off Why would doctors not want to order tests if you have breathing issues? Lack of insurance? It sounds so weird to me Heart Disease Hi, I just wanted to say that I had a quadruple coronary bypass 2 weeks ago that was necessary because of blockages caused by HIV medications. It took me well over a year and changing doctors four times to find one that would order the necessary test (Stress Test, in my case). Because I looked " healthy " and the EKG's in the office showed no abnormalities, I was told that my breathing issues were 1) lung related or 2) anxiety driven. My purpose in writing this is to affirm that WE know our bodies better than anyone and when something is wrong, WE know it and must not stop until the truth is revealed. My recovery is going very well and I am feeling better than I did before the surgery. Best to you all, ------------------------------------ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 15, 2011 Report Share Posted August 15, 2011 I am glad your perseverance paid off Why would doctors not want to order tests if you have breathing issues? Lack of insurance? It sounds so weird to me Heart Disease Hi, I just wanted to say that I had a quadruple coronary bypass 2 weeks ago that was necessary because of blockages caused by HIV medications. It took me well over a year and changing doctors four times to find one that would order the necessary test (Stress Test, in my case). Because I looked " healthy " and the EKG's in the office showed no abnormalities, I was told that my breathing issues were 1) lung related or 2) anxiety driven. My purpose in writing this is to affirm that WE know our bodies better than anyone and when something is wrong, WE know it and must not stop until the truth is revealed. My recovery is going very well and I am feeling better than I did before the surgery. Best to you all, ------------------------------------ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 15, 2011 Report Share Posted August 15, 2011 Am I ignorant of this, that HIV meds cause coronary blockages? Wow! This is news to me. Maybe I overlooked the warning . . . please elaborate. Hugs for the trudge. Jon Markle  Raleigh  9.9.82  " People who say it cannot be done should not interrupt those who are doing it.†~ Bernard Shaw On Aug 15, 2011, at 1:54 AM, G wrote: > Hi, > > I just wanted to say that I had a quadruple coronary bypass 2 weeks ago that was necessary because of blockages caused by HIV medications. It took me well over a year and changing doctors four times to find one that would order the necessary test (Stress Test, in my case). Because I looked " healthy " and the EKG's in the office showed no abnormalities, I was told that my breathing issues were 1) lung related or 2) anxiety driven. My purpose in writing this is to affirm that WE know our bodies better than anyone and when something is wrong, WE know it and must not stop until the truth is revealed. My recovery is going very well and I am feeling better than I did before the surgery. > > Best to you all, > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 15, 2011 Report Share Posted August 15, 2011 Am I ignorant of this, that HIV meds cause coronary blockages? Wow! This is news to me. Maybe I overlooked the warning . . . please elaborate. Hugs for the trudge. Jon Markle  Raleigh  9.9.82  " People who say it cannot be done should not interrupt those who are doing it.†~ Bernard Shaw On Aug 15, 2011, at 1:54 AM, G wrote: > Hi, > > I just wanted to say that I had a quadruple coronary bypass 2 weeks ago that was necessary because of blockages caused by HIV medications. It took me well over a year and changing doctors four times to find one that would order the necessary test (Stress Test, in my case). Because I looked " healthy " and the EKG's in the office showed no abnormalities, I was told that my breathing issues were 1) lung related or 2) anxiety driven. My purpose in writing this is to affirm that WE know our bodies better than anyone and when something is wrong, WE know it and must not stop until the truth is revealed. My recovery is going very well and I am feeling better than I did before the surgery. > > Best to you all, > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 15, 2011 Report Share Posted August 15, 2011 Often care providers in HIV are not up on the latest in care related to comorbidities like heart disease, kidney disease and neurofunction SO it is crucial for patients to be educated and knowledgae so they can make decisions when to see specialists in these crcuial areas. I say line up a specialist in these areas and start seeing them so they can monitor you on a regular basis. Hov clinicians lnow how to check cd4 and viral load and very often that's all. Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry Heart Disease Hi, I just wanted to say that I had a quadruple coronary bypass 2 weeks ago that was necessary because of blockages caused by HIV medications. It took me well over a year and changing doctors four times to find one that would order the necessary test (Stress Test, in my case). Because I looked " healthy " and the EKG's in the office showed no abnormalities, I was told that my breathing issues were 1) lung related or 2) anxiety driven. My purpose in writing this is to affirm that WE know our bodies better than anyone and when something is wrong, WE know it and must not stop until the truth is revealed. My recovery is going very well and I am feeling better than I did before the surgery. Best to you all, ------------------------------------ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 15, 2011 Report Share Posted August 15, 2011 Often care providers in HIV are not up on the latest in care related to comorbidities like heart disease, kidney disease and neurofunction SO it is crucial for patients to be educated and knowledgae so they can make decisions when to see specialists in these crcuial areas. I say line up a specialist in these areas and start seeing them so they can monitor you on a regular basis. Hov clinicians lnow how to check cd4 and viral load and very often that's all. Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry Heart Disease Hi, I just wanted to say that I had a quadruple coronary bypass 2 weeks ago that was necessary because of blockages caused by HIV medications. It took me well over a year and changing doctors four times to find one that would order the necessary test (Stress Test, in my case). Because I looked " healthy " and the EKG's in the office showed no abnormalities, I was told that my breathing issues were 1) lung related or 2) anxiety driven. My purpose in writing this is to affirm that WE know our bodies better than anyone and when something is wrong, WE know it and must not stop until the truth is revealed. My recovery is going very well and I am feeling better than I did before the surgery. Best to you all, ------------------------------------ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 16, 2011 Report Share Posted August 16, 2011 With symptoms, I'm surprised you didn't get a stress test, which would have led to the findings Has your cholesterol been followed? Are you a smoker? Glad you're doing better JB Permanently etched on your screen by my iPad's phaser gun app. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 16, 2011 Report Share Posted August 16, 2011 People with long-term HIV do seem to have a higher incidence of vascular disease. Meds contribute, probably mostly due to deleterious effects on blood lipids. HIV itself probably contributes, due to inflammation. The effects are not as bad as smoking, I'd wager. JB Permanently etched on your screen by my iPad's phaser gun app. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 16, 2011 Report Share Posted August 16, 2011 People with long-term HIV do seem to have a higher incidence of vascular disease. Meds contribute, probably mostly due to deleterious effects on blood lipids. HIV itself probably contributes, due to inflammation. The effects are not as bad as smoking, I'd wager. JB Permanently etched on your screen by my iPad's phaser gun app. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 16, 2011 Report Share Posted August 16, 2011 I have to ask, though, is the coronary blockage due to the medications or some other factor? What evidence is there which shows uncontroversial factual medical evidence that vascular diseases stem from the medications? I know that many people (my partner— who is HIV negative) have coronary & heart disease for various reasons, complicated by life style and other things. He’s had 6 heart attacks and 15 stints. His first incident was in his 30s. His last was at age 54, this past February. We can make assumptions, but unless there is medical evidence, I’d not be so quick to judge the medications. I’m more willing to suggest it’s life style that is the cause of, or contributes to, or exacerbates genetic factors for heart disease. Hugs for the trudge. Jon Markle  Raleigh  9.9.82  " People who say it cannot be done should not interrupt those who are doing it.†~ Bernard Shaw On Aug 16, 2011, at 5:57 AM, J Barrowster wrote: > People with long-term HIV do seem to have a higher incidence of vascular disease. > > Meds contribute, probably mostly due to deleterious effects on blood lipids. > > HIV itself probably contributes, due to inflammation. > > The effects are not as bad as smoking, I'd wager. > > > JB > > > > Permanently etched on your screen by my iPad's phaser gun app. > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 16, 2011 Report Share Posted August 16, 2011 I am admitting up front that I am new to the information and may be wrong here but one possible source of evidence that I have heard of is that there are HIV+ children that will have cholesterol rates that are through the roof that the doctors attribute to the medication. I am on a list for adoptive parents of children with HIV and one parent described a 2yr old with cholesterol over 240….certainly not typical for a toddler! Any thoughts on this?http://www.adreamadoption.blogspot.com From: [mailto: ] On Behalf Of Jon MarkleSent: Tuesday, August 16, 2011 12:08 PMJ BarrowsterCc: Subject: Re: Heart Disease I have to ask, though, is the coronary blockage due to the medications or some other factor?What evidence is there which shows uncontroversial factual medical evidence that vascular diseases stem from the medications? I know that many people (my partner— who is HIV negative) have coronary & heart disease for various reasons, complicated by life style and other things. He’s had 6 heart attacks and 15 stints. His first incident was in his 30s. His last was at age 54, this past February. We can make assumptions, but unless there is medical evidence, I’d not be so quick to judge the medications. I’m more willing to suggest it’s life style that is the cause of, or contributes to, or exacerbates genetic factors for heart disease. Hugs for the trudge.Jon Markle  Raleigh  9.9.82  " People who say it cannot be done should not interrupt those who are doing it.†~ Bernard ShawOn Aug 16, 2011, at 5:57 AM, J Barrowster wrote:> People with long-term HIV do seem to have a higher incidence of vascular disease. > > Meds contribute, probably mostly due to deleterious effects on blood lipids. > > HIV itself probably contributes, due to inflammation.> > The effects are not as bad as smoking, I'd wager. > > > JB> > > > Permanently etched on your screen by my iPad's phaser gun app. > > > > ------------------------------------> > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 16, 2011 Report Share Posted August 16, 2011 I am admitting up front that I am new to the information and may be wrong here but one possible source of evidence that I have heard of is that there are HIV+ children that will have cholesterol rates that are through the roof that the doctors attribute to the medication. I am on a list for adoptive parents of children with HIV and one parent described a 2yr old with cholesterol over 240….certainly not typical for a toddler! Any thoughts on this?http://www.adreamadoption.blogspot.com From: [mailto: ] On Behalf Of Jon MarkleSent: Tuesday, August 16, 2011 12:08 PMJ BarrowsterCc: Subject: Re: Heart Disease I have to ask, though, is the coronary blockage due to the medications or some other factor?What evidence is there which shows uncontroversial factual medical evidence that vascular diseases stem from the medications? I know that many people (my partner— who is HIV negative) have coronary & heart disease for various reasons, complicated by life style and other things. He’s had 6 heart attacks and 15 stints. His first incident was in his 30s. His last was at age 54, this past February. We can make assumptions, but unless there is medical evidence, I’d not be so quick to judge the medications. I’m more willing to suggest it’s life style that is the cause of, or contributes to, or exacerbates genetic factors for heart disease. Hugs for the trudge.Jon Markle  Raleigh  9.9.82  " People who say it cannot be done should not interrupt those who are doing it.†~ Bernard ShawOn Aug 16, 2011, at 5:57 AM, J Barrowster wrote:> People with long-term HIV do seem to have a higher incidence of vascular disease. > > Meds contribute, probably mostly due to deleterious effects on blood lipids. > > HIV itself probably contributes, due to inflammation.> > The effects are not as bad as smoking, I'd wager. > > > JB> > > > Permanently etched on your screen by my iPad's phaser gun app. > > > > ------------------------------------> > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 16, 2011 Report Share Posted August 16, 2011 It's a great question. I think that the medications probably complicate the lipid picture, but lipids alone do not account for all cardiovascular disease. My personal bet is that the chronic inflammation caused by HIV disease is a greater risk factor than the medications Add in the fact that so many gay men continue to commit suicide with cigarettes, and you have a real problem. JB Permanently etched on your screen by my iPad's phaser gun app. On Aug 16, 2011, at 9:08 PM, Jon Markle <serenitylodge@...> wrote: > I have to ask, though, is the coronary blockage due to the medications or some other factor? > > What evidence is there which shows uncontroversial factual medical evidence that vascular diseases stem from the medications? > > I know that many people (my partner— who is HIV negative) have coronary & heart disease for various reasons, complicated by life style and other things. He’s had 6 heart attacks and 15 stints. His first incident was in his 30s. His last was at age 54, this past February. > > We can make assumptions, but unless there is medical evidence, I’d not be so quick to judge the medications. I’m more willing to suggest it’s life style that is the cause of, or contributes to, or exacerbates genetic factors for heart disease. > > Hugs for the trudge. > Jon Markle  Raleigh  9.9.82  " People who say it cannot be done should not interrupt those who are doing it.†~ Bernard Shaw > > On Aug 16, 2011, at 5:57 AM, J Barrowster wrote: > >> People with long-term HIV do seem to have a higher incidence of vascular disease. >> >> Meds contribute, probably mostly due to deleterious effects on blood lipids. >> >> HIV itself probably contributes, due to inflammation. >> >> The effects are not as bad as smoking, I'd wager. >> >> >> JB >> >> >> >> Permanently etched on your screen by my iPad's phaser gun app. >> >> >> >> ------------------------------------ >> >> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 16, 2011 Report Share Posted August 16, 2011 It's a great question. I think that the medications probably complicate the lipid picture, but lipids alone do not account for all cardiovascular disease. My personal bet is that the chronic inflammation caused by HIV disease is a greater risk factor than the medications Add in the fact that so many gay men continue to commit suicide with cigarettes, and you have a real problem. JB Permanently etched on your screen by my iPad's phaser gun app. On Aug 16, 2011, at 9:08 PM, Jon Markle <serenitylodge@...> wrote: > I have to ask, though, is the coronary blockage due to the medications or some other factor? > > What evidence is there which shows uncontroversial factual medical evidence that vascular diseases stem from the medications? > > I know that many people (my partner— who is HIV negative) have coronary & heart disease for various reasons, complicated by life style and other things. He’s had 6 heart attacks and 15 stints. His first incident was in his 30s. His last was at age 54, this past February. > > We can make assumptions, but unless there is medical evidence, I’d not be so quick to judge the medications. I’m more willing to suggest it’s life style that is the cause of, or contributes to, or exacerbates genetic factors for heart disease. > > Hugs for the trudge. > Jon Markle  Raleigh  9.9.82  " People who say it cannot be done should not interrupt those who are doing it.†~ Bernard Shaw > > On Aug 16, 2011, at 5:57 AM, J Barrowster wrote: > >> People with long-term HIV do seem to have a higher incidence of vascular disease. >> >> Meds contribute, probably mostly due to deleterious effects on blood lipids. >> >> HIV itself probably contributes, due to inflammation. >> >> The effects are not as bad as smoking, I'd wager. >> >> >> JB >> >> >> >> Permanently etched on your screen by my iPad's phaser gun app. >> >> >> >> ------------------------------------ >> >> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 16, 2011 Report Share Posted August 16, 2011 I agree with JBIn fact, using regular risks factors of cardiovascular problems underestimate the risks of cardiovascular risk in HIV. This is the formula that is used for everyone in the worldhttp://hp2010.nhlbihin.net/atpiii/calculator.asp?usertype=prof In HIV, this equation underestimates the actual observed risk (DAD study- pic attached) The DAD study group came up with a better equation to predict the 10 year risk of cardiovascular events (go ahead, calculate yours!) : http://www.cphiv.dk/TOOLS/DADRiskEquations/tabid/437/Default.aspx On Tue, Aug 16, 2011 at 4:02 PM, J Barrowster <barrowster@...> wrote: It's a great question.   I think that the medications probably complicate the lipid picture, but lipids alone do not account for all cardiovascular disease. My personal bet is that the chronic inflammation caused by HIV disease is a greater risk factor than the medications Add in the fact that so many gay men continue to commit suicide with cigarettes, and you have a real problem. JB Permanently etched on your screen by my iPad's phaser gun app. On Aug 16, 2011, at 9:08 PM, Jon Markle <serenitylodge@...> wrote: > I have to ask, though, is the coronary blockage due to the medications or some other factor? > > What evidence is there which shows uncontroversial factual medical evidence that vascular diseases stem from the medications? > > I know that many people (my partner— who is HIV negative) have coronary & heart disease for various reasons, complicated by life style and other things.  He’s had 6 heart attacks and 15 stints.  His first incident was in his 30s.  His last was at age 54, this past February. > > We can make assumptions, but unless there is medical evidence, I’d not be so quick to judge the medications.  I’m more willing to suggest it’s life style that is the cause of, or contributes to, or exacerbates genetic factors for heart disease. > > Hugs for the trudge. > Jon Markle  Raleigh  9.9.82   " People who say it cannot be done should not interrupt those who are doing it.†~ Bernard Shaw > > On Aug 16, 2011, at 5:57 AM, J Barrowster wrote: > >> People with long-term HIV do seem to have a higher incidence of vascular disease. >> >> Meds contribute, probably mostly due to deleterious effects on blood lipids. >> >> HIV itself probably contributes, due to inflammation. >> >> The effects are not as bad as smoking, I'd wager. >> >> >> JB >> >> >> >> Permanently etched on your screen by my iPad's phaser gun app. >> >> >> >> ------------------------------------ >> >> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 16, 2011 Report Share Posted August 16, 2011 I agree with JBIn fact, using regular risks factors of cardiovascular problems underestimate the risks of cardiovascular risk in HIV. This is the formula that is used for everyone in the worldhttp://hp2010.nhlbihin.net/atpiii/calculator.asp?usertype=prof In HIV, this equation underestimates the actual observed risk (DAD study- pic attached) The DAD study group came up with a better equation to predict the 10 year risk of cardiovascular events (go ahead, calculate yours!) : http://www.cphiv.dk/TOOLS/DADRiskEquations/tabid/437/Default.aspx On Tue, Aug 16, 2011 at 4:02 PM, J Barrowster <barrowster@...> wrote: It's a great question.   I think that the medications probably complicate the lipid picture, but lipids alone do not account for all cardiovascular disease. My personal bet is that the chronic inflammation caused by HIV disease is a greater risk factor than the medications Add in the fact that so many gay men continue to commit suicide with cigarettes, and you have a real problem. JB Permanently etched on your screen by my iPad's phaser gun app. On Aug 16, 2011, at 9:08 PM, Jon Markle <serenitylodge@...> wrote: > I have to ask, though, is the coronary blockage due to the medications or some other factor? > > What evidence is there which shows uncontroversial factual medical evidence that vascular diseases stem from the medications? > > I know that many people (my partner— who is HIV negative) have coronary & heart disease for various reasons, complicated by life style and other things.  He’s had 6 heart attacks and 15 stints.  His first incident was in his 30s.  His last was at age 54, this past February. > > We can make assumptions, but unless there is medical evidence, I’d not be so quick to judge the medications.  I’m more willing to suggest it’s life style that is the cause of, or contributes to, or exacerbates genetic factors for heart disease. > > Hugs for the trudge. > Jon Markle  Raleigh  9.9.82   " People who say it cannot be done should not interrupt those who are doing it.†~ Bernard Shaw > > On Aug 16, 2011, at 5:57 AM, J Barrowster wrote: > >> People with long-term HIV do seem to have a higher incidence of vascular disease. >> >> Meds contribute, probably mostly due to deleterious effects on blood lipids. >> >> HIV itself probably contributes, due to inflammation. >> >> The effects are not as bad as smoking, I'd wager. >> >> >> JB >> >> >> >> Permanently etched on your screen by my iPad's phaser gun app. >> >> >> >> ------------------------------------ >> >> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 16, 2011 Report Share Posted August 16, 2011 I agree, HIV causes inflammation. Untreated HOV cuases more inflammation but often inflammation persists despite undtetectable viral load. Medications can contribuite to metabolic abnormalities and HIV treatment is requored, in fact early HIV therapy shows benefits in terms of preventing comorbidoties and improving inflammation so its a no win situation. But researchers are on the case in designing studies to understand these issues better and trying to find interventions. I Am on the federal task force trying to design studies to do this. A recent study found lower death rates among HIV+ individuals taking statins, an antiinflammatory so this will I expect receive further study Jules Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry Re: Heart Disease It's a great question. I think that the medications probably complicate the lipid picture, but lipids alone do not account for all cardiovascular disease. My personal bet is that the chronic inflammation caused by HIV disease is a greater risk factor than the medications Add in the fact that so many gay men continue to commit suicide with cigarettes, and you have a real problem. JB Permanently etched on your screen by my iPad's phaser gun app. On Aug 16, 2011, at 9:08 PM, Jon Markle <serenitylodge@...> wrote: > I have to ask, though, is the coronary blockage due to the medications or some other factor? > > What evidence is there which shows uncontroversial factual medical evidence that vascular diseases stem from the medications? > > I know that many people (my partner— who is HIV negative) have coronary & heart disease for various reasons, complicated by life style and other things. He’s had 6 heart attacks and 15 stints. His first incident was in his 30s. His last was at age 54, this past February. > > We can make assumptions, but unless there is medical evidence, I’d not be so quick to judge the medications. I’m more willing to suggest it’s life style that is the cause of, or contributes to, or exacerbates genetic factors for heart disease. > > Hugs for the trudge. > Jon Markle  Raleigh  9.9.82  " People who say it cannot be done should not interrupt those who are doing it.†~ Bernard Shaw > > On Aug 16, 2011, at 5:57 AM, J Barrowster wrote: > >> People with long-term HIV do seem to have a higher incidence of vascular disease. >> >> Meds contribute, probably mostly due to deleterious effects on blood lipids. >> >> HIV itself probably contributes, due to inflammation. >> >> The effects are not as bad as smoking, I'd wager. >> >> >> JB >> >> >> >> Permanently etched on your screen by my iPad's phaser gun app. >> >> >> >> ------------------------------------ >> >> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 17, 2011 Report Share Posted August 17, 2011 Let's not confuse HIV increased risk for events, with HIV medication increased risk for events. Jon Markle9.9.82On Aug 16, 2011, at 8:02 PM, Vergel wrote:I agree with JBIn fact, using regular risks factors of cardiovascular problems underestimate the risks of cardiovascular risk in HIV. This is the formula that is used for everyone in the worldhttp://hp2010.nhlbihin.net/atpiii/calculator.asp?usertype=prof In HIV, this equation underestimates the actual observed risk (DAD study- pic attached) The DAD study group came up with a better equation to predict the 10 year risk of cardiovascular events (go ahead, calculate yours!) : http://www.cphiv.dk/TOOLS/DADRiskEquations/tabid/437/Default.aspx On Tue, Aug 16, 2011 at 4:02 PM, J Barrowster <barrowster@...> wrote: It's a great question. I think that the medications probably complicate the lipid picture, but lipids alone do not account for all cardiovascular disease. My personal bet is that the chronic inflammation caused by HIV disease is a greater risk factor than the medications Add in the fact that so many gay men continue to commit suicide with cigarettes, and you have a real problem. JB Permanently etched on your screen by my iPad's phaser gun app. On Aug 16, 2011, at 9:08 PM, Jon Markle <serenitylodge@...> wrote: > I have to ask, though, is the coronary blockage due to the medications or some other factor? > > What evidence is there which shows uncontroversial factual medical evidence that vascular diseases stem from the medications? > > I know that many people (my partner— who is HIV negative) have coronary & heart disease for various reasons, complicated by life style and other things. He’s had 6 heart attacks and 15 stints. His first incident was in his 30s. His last was at age 54, this past February. > > We can make assumptions, but unless there is medical evidence, I’d not be so quick to judge the medications. I’m more willing to suggest it’s life style that is the cause of, or contributes to, or exacerbates genetic factors for heart disease. > > Hugs for the trudge. > Jon Markle  Raleigh  9.9.82  "People who say it cannot be done should not interrupt those who are doing it.†~ Bernard Shaw > > On Aug 16, 2011, at 5:57 AM, J Barrowster wrote: > >> People with long-term HIV do seem to have a higher incidence of vascular disease. >> >> Meds contribute, probably mostly due to deleterious effects on blood lipids. >> >> HIV itself probably contributes, due to inflammation. >> >> The effects are not as bad as smoking, I'd wager. >> >> >> JB >> >> >> >> Permanently etched on your screen by my iPad's phaser gun app. >> >> >> >> ------------------------------------ >> >> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 17, 2011 Report Share Posted August 17, 2011 Let's not confuse HIV increased risk for events, with HIV medication increased risk for events. Jon Markle9.9.82On Aug 16, 2011, at 8:02 PM, Vergel wrote:I agree with JBIn fact, using regular risks factors of cardiovascular problems underestimate the risks of cardiovascular risk in HIV. This is the formula that is used for everyone in the worldhttp://hp2010.nhlbihin.net/atpiii/calculator.asp?usertype=prof In HIV, this equation underestimates the actual observed risk (DAD study- pic attached) The DAD study group came up with a better equation to predict the 10 year risk of cardiovascular events (go ahead, calculate yours!) : http://www.cphiv.dk/TOOLS/DADRiskEquations/tabid/437/Default.aspx On Tue, Aug 16, 2011 at 4:02 PM, J Barrowster <barrowster@...> wrote: It's a great question. I think that the medications probably complicate the lipid picture, but lipids alone do not account for all cardiovascular disease. My personal bet is that the chronic inflammation caused by HIV disease is a greater risk factor than the medications Add in the fact that so many gay men continue to commit suicide with cigarettes, and you have a real problem. JB Permanently etched on your screen by my iPad's phaser gun app. On Aug 16, 2011, at 9:08 PM, Jon Markle <serenitylodge@...> wrote: > I have to ask, though, is the coronary blockage due to the medications or some other factor? > > What evidence is there which shows uncontroversial factual medical evidence that vascular diseases stem from the medications? > > I know that many people (my partner— who is HIV negative) have coronary & heart disease for various reasons, complicated by life style and other things. He’s had 6 heart attacks and 15 stints. His first incident was in his 30s. His last was at age 54, this past February. > > We can make assumptions, but unless there is medical evidence, I’d not be so quick to judge the medications. I’m more willing to suggest it’s life style that is the cause of, or contributes to, or exacerbates genetic factors for heart disease. > > Hugs for the trudge. > Jon Markle  Raleigh  9.9.82  "People who say it cannot be done should not interrupt those who are doing it.†~ Bernard Shaw > > On Aug 16, 2011, at 5:57 AM, J Barrowster wrote: > >> People with long-term HIV do seem to have a higher incidence of vascular disease. >> >> Meds contribute, probably mostly due to deleterious effects on blood lipids. >> >> HIV itself probably contributes, due to inflammation. >> >> The effects are not as bad as smoking, I'd wager. >> >> >> JB >> >> >> >> Permanently etched on your screen by my iPad's phaser gun app. >> >> >> >> ------------------------------------ >> >> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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