Re: MSM dating site for HIV+ men needs beta testers

[Guest guest]

Jack,I think your goals are well intentioned. I applaud your efforts.We all wish that stigma's would disappear overnight, but we would be foolish if we thought that.At least in my case, I do not know of any positive couples, most are serodiscordant.The heart has reasons that the mind does not comprehend. I would not love or date a person JUST BECAUSE they are tall, dark, handsome or HIV+. If only my heart would listen and follow...My experience has been that even with HIV+ dating sites, the same discrimination that we are escaping from are found in them too. I mean people in Poz sites, demand that a possible partner has no other STD's, be Hep C negative, undetectable and

the list goes on. I am surprised that profiles in those sites also use terms like "clean" and "drug and disease free." I ran into a negative profile recently where the poster was using Truvada and he was not afraid of "bottom-ing" with poz partners. It is human nature at its very best -- immutable and narrow.I am thinking that as a good starting point to provide resources/tips on how to manage with partners' status. The issue cuts both ways: HIV- are afraid of HIV+, and vice versa. Changing human thinking is the bigger issue.I have a strong feeling that there is a large portion of "negative" profiles that are being afraid to post their real status. Also up to 75% of poz people do not even know their real status.My views on the topic at this time.

[Guest guest]

Nebur,

You make a very important point...smile

"HIV- are afraid of HIV+, and vice versa."

For some HIV+ guys, there is the fear of

becoming double infected....

While I'm on this subject of dating...

What are the dangers of kissing, currently

in our community...???

From: Nebur <rubennolastname@...>Jack Mackenroth <jackmax2@...>; POZ health group < > Sent: Wednesday, August 1, 2012 7:50 PMSubject: Re: MSM dating site for HIV+ men needs beta testers

Jack,

I think your goals are well intentioned. I applaud your efforts.

We all wish that stigma's would disappear overnight, but we would be foolish if we thought that.

At least in my case, I do not know of any positive couples, most are serodiscordant.

The heart has reasons that the mind does not comprehend. I would not love or date a person JUST BECAUSE they are tall, dark, handsome or HIV+. If only my heart would listen and follow...

My experience has been that even with HIV+ dating sites, the same discrimination that we are escaping from are found in them too. I mean people in Poz sites, demand that a possible partner has no other STD's, be Hep C negative, undetectable and the list goes on. I am surprised that profiles in those sites also use terms like "clean" and "drug and disease free." I ran into a negative profile recently where the poster was using Truvada and he was not afraid of "bottom-ing" with poz partners.

It is human nature at its very best -- immutable and narrow.I am thinking that as a good starting point to provide resources/tips on how to manage with partners' status. The issue cuts both ways: HIV- are afraid of HIV+, and vice versa. Changing human thinking is the bigger issue.I have a strong feeling that there is a large portion of "negative" profiles that are being afraid to post their real status. Also up to 75% of poz people do not even know their real status.My views on the topic at this time.

[Guest guest]

If you are trying to meet other guys for an intimate connection, from a zipless fk to something substantial, I think that we have to ASSUME that the other guy has one or more STDs and that he needs to assume the same about us. And then play as safely as passion, sense, and resources permit. I have had guys tell me on line that they never have sex with guys who are poz. I tell them that they are having sex with poz guys all the time. It's just that some don't know they are poz (up to 30% of infected guys), others THINK they are negative but are not, and still others -- lots of others, I suspect -- just plain lie.

Then there are the Letterman ten biggies on the countdown: hep A, hep B, hep C, gonorrhea, syphilis, herpes simplex, HPV, and ... well, you get the picture. All sexually active people need to be checked routinely for ALL of these, and get immunized against hep A and hep B. Alas, there is no immunization available for hep C, and some 150 million people worldwide have it and many of them will die of the resulting liver disease.

Never mind relatively harmless nasties like body lice, head lice, and scabies.

If you refuse to use condoms for anal sex (and I do not like them myself), you WILL get several of these infections. For sure. Probably one of the safest kinds of guys to have sex with is someone like many of us on this listserve who are poz, who are on HAART, who are undetectable or nearly so, and who are regularly checked for and, if necessary, treated for the other STDs. In my case I just don't engage in anal sex. I miss it, but I like not missing the next sunrise and the next.

I was coinfected in the mid-1980s. In 1990 I projected my death as occurring by 1995. That year came and went It is now 17 years later. The new meds, good docs, and good health insurance has allowed me to live and to be reasonably well. I want to stretch out that gift of life for a few more decades before the Neptune Society gives my family the ashes to scatter over the ocean.

Jerome

In a message dated 8/2/2012 9:57:53 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time, george310541@... writes:

Nebur,

You make a very important point...smile

"HIV- are afraid of HIV+, and vice versa."

For some HIV+ guys, there is the fear of

becoming double infected....

While I'm on this subject of dating...

What are the dangers of kissing, currently

in our community...???

From: Nebur <rubennolastname@...>Jack Mackenroth <jackmax2@...>; POZ health group < > Sent: Wednesday, August 1, 2012 7:50 PMSubject: Re: MSM dating site for HIV+ men needs beta testers

Jack,

I think your goals are well intentioned. I applaud your efforts.

We all wish that stigma's would disappear overnight, but we would be foolish if we thought that.

At least in my case, I do not know of any positive couples, most are serodiscordant.

The heart has reasons that the mind does not comprehend. I would not love or date a person JUST BECAUSE they are tall, dark, handsome or HIV+. If only my heart would listen and follow...

My experience has been that even with HIV+ dating sites, the same discrimination that we are escaping from are found in them too. I mean people in Poz sites, demand that a possible partner has no other STD's, be Hep C negative, undetectable and the list goes on. I am surprised that profiles in those sites also use terms like "clean" and "drug and disease free." I ran into a negative profile recently where the poster was using Truvada and he was not afraid of "bottom-ing" with poz partners.

It is human nature at its very best -- immutable and narrow.I am thinking that as a good starting point to provide resources/tips on how to manage with partners' status. The issue cuts both ways: HIV- are afraid of HIV+, and vice versa. Changing human thinking is the bigger issue.I have a strong feeling that there is a large portion of "negative" profiles that are being afraid to post their real status. Also up to 75% of poz people do not even know their real status.My views on the topic at this time.

[Guest guest]

If you are trying to meet other guys for an intimate connection, from a zipless fk to something substantial, I think that we have to ASSUME that the other guy has one or more STDs and that he needs to assume the same about us. And then play as safely as passion, sense, and resources permit. I have had guys tell me on line that they never have sex with guys who are poz. I tell them that they are having sex with poz guys all the time. It's just that some don't know they are poz (up to 30% of infected guys), others THINK they are negative but are not, and still others -- lots of others, I suspect -- just plain lie.

Then there are the Letterman ten biggies on the countdown: hep A, hep B, hep C, gonorrhea, syphilis, herpes simplex, HPV, and ... well, you get the picture. All sexually active people need to be checked routinely for ALL of these, and get immunized against hep A and hep B. Alas, there is no immunization available for hep C, and some 150 million people worldwide have it and many of them will die of the resulting liver disease.

Never mind relatively harmless nasties like body lice, head lice, and scabies.

If you refuse to use condoms for anal sex (and I do not like them myself), you WILL get several of these infections. For sure. Probably one of the safest kinds of guys to have sex with is someone like many of us on this listserve who are poz, who are on HAART, who are undetectable or nearly so, and who are regularly checked for and, if necessary, treated for the other STDs. In my case I just don't engage in anal sex. I miss it, but I like not missing the next sunrise and the next.

I was coinfected in the mid-1980s. In 1990 I projected my death as occurring by 1995. That year came and went It is now 17 years later. The new meds, good docs, and good health insurance has allowed me to live and to be reasonably well. I want to stretch out that gift of life for a few more decades before the Neptune Society gives my family the ashes to scatter over the ocean.

Jerome

In a message dated 8/2/2012 9:57:53 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time, george310541@... writes:

Nebur,

You make a very important point...smile

"HIV- are afraid of HIV+, and vice versa."

For some HIV+ guys, there is the fear of

becoming double infected....

While I'm on this subject of dating...

What are the dangers of kissing, currently

in our community...???

From: Nebur <rubennolastname@...>Jack Mackenroth <jackmax2@...>; POZ health group < > Sent: Wednesday, August 1, 2012 7:50 PMSubject: Re: MSM dating site for HIV+ men needs beta testers

Jack,

I think your goals are well intentioned. I applaud your efforts.

We all wish that stigma's would disappear overnight, but we would be foolish if we thought that.

At least in my case, I do not know of any positive couples, most are serodiscordant.

The heart has reasons that the mind does not comprehend. I would not love or date a person JUST BECAUSE they are tall, dark, handsome or HIV+. If only my heart would listen and follow...

My experience has been that even with HIV+ dating sites, the same discrimination that we are escaping from are found in them too. I mean people in Poz sites, demand that a possible partner has no other STD's, be Hep C negative, undetectable and the list goes on. I am surprised that profiles in those sites also use terms like "clean" and "drug and disease free." I ran into a negative profile recently where the poster was using Truvada and he was not afraid of "bottom-ing" with poz partners.

It is human nature at its very best -- immutable and narrow.I am thinking that as a good starting point to provide resources/tips on how to manage with partners' status. The issue cuts both ways: HIV- are afraid of HIV+, and vice versa. Changing human thinking is the bigger issue.I have a strong feeling that there is a large portion of "negative" profiles that are being afraid to post their real status. Also up to 75% of poz people do not even know their real status.My views on the topic at this time.

[Guest guest]

On Thu, Aug 2, 2012 at 12:59 AM, 310541w <george310541@...> wrote:

While I'm on this subject of dating...

What are the dangers of kissing, currently

in our community...??? Negligible.Here are the CDC-released risks of transmission by various routes:

Estimated Per-Act Probability of Acquiring HIV from an Infected Source, by Exposure Acta

Type of Exposure

Risk per 10,000

Exposures

Parenteral

Blood Transfusion

9,000b

Needle-sharing during injection drug use

67c

Percutaneous (needle-stick)

30d

Sexual

Receptive anal intercourse

50e, f

Receptive penile-vaginal intercourse

10e, f, g

Insertive anal intercourse

6.5e, f

Insertive penile-vaginal intercourse

5e, f

Receptive oral intercourse

lowe, i

Insertive oral intercourse

lowe, i

Otherh

Biting

negligiblej

Spitting

negligible

Throwing body fluids (including semen or saliva)

negligible

Sharing sex toys

negligibleThe CDC released this information last month with very little fanfare.Regards,Nick-- Nick , LSW

6631 Clemens Ave., Apt. 1EUniversity City, MO 63130

thenick58@...

http://nicknicholas.net

[Guest guest]

On Thu, Aug 2, 2012 at 12:59 AM, 310541w <george310541@...> wrote:

While I'm on this subject of dating...

What are the dangers of kissing, currently

in our community...??? Negligible.Here are the CDC-released risks of transmission by various routes:

Estimated Per-Act Probability of Acquiring HIV from an Infected Source, by Exposure Acta

Type of Exposure

Risk per 10,000

Exposures

Parenteral

Blood Transfusion

9,000b

Needle-sharing during injection drug use

67c

Percutaneous (needle-stick)

30d

Sexual

Receptive anal intercourse

50e, f

Receptive penile-vaginal intercourse

10e, f, g

Insertive anal intercourse

6.5e, f

Insertive penile-vaginal intercourse

5e, f

Receptive oral intercourse

lowe, i

Insertive oral intercourse

lowe, i

Otherh

Biting

negligiblej

Spitting

negligible

Throwing body fluids (including semen or saliva)

negligible

Sharing sex toys

negligibleThe CDC released this information last month with very little fanfare.Regards,Nick-- Nick , LSW

6631 Clemens Ave., Apt. 1EUniversity City, MO 63130

thenick58@...

http://nicknicholas.net