Re: New Born Baby

November 16, 2010

Hmm, was trying to understand your point . And what I think is you

have done is put the cart before the horse here. If you put God first

then the rest will make sense. God won't make you feel bad. He makes you

feel good..!

Carolyn ;o)

Riley wrote:

>

> Having a child with disabilities is good for some people, but if you

> have a look at the statistics for failed marriages as well as

> considering the effects on other kids, I would hesitate to draw the

> conclusion that whatever child you get, it is God's will that the

> child should have disabilities and you are capable of handling the

> situation. I think people with kids with disabilities have enough

> stress without adding the guilt of them not living up to God's

> expectations. Just because something is does not mean it is God's

> will that it should be.

>

> On 16/11/2010 3:02 PM, Brezen wrote:

>

>>

>> I agree children with disabilities are a blessing. My son is 5 and

>> mildly Autistic and at first I didn't think that i could handle a

>> child like him. But he has taught me to look at the world in a

>> totally different way, if i could have known that he would be like

>> this either before he was born or even as a newborn I would do

>> everything in my power to make sure he could live as " normal " a life

>> as possible. I was told with my 7 year old daughter that she could

>> have been born with Spina Bifida and they day after she was born I

>> was told she could have Downs Syndrome - here we are 7 years later

>> and she's a perfect 7 year old. I would hate to think that there are

>> people who would have said to never give her the chance because look

>> what I would have missed out on. I recently gave birth 3 months ago

>> to my 3rd child and to be honest when I found out i was pregnant I

>> wasn't too sure that I was going to go through with this pregnancy, I

>> was scared to have another child with Autism but the more I looked at

>> my other son and the more I thought about it I knew I could handle it

>> and would do whatever it took. I am sad to hear when parents choose

>> to give there special needs children up for adoption or don't think

>> that they should be given the chance at life. I believe that God

>> knows what you are capapble of handling and gave you that precious

>> gift to take care of.

>>

>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------

>> *From:* Jenn <WldWestWoman@...>

>> *To:* Autism and Aspergers Treatment

>> *Sent:* Mon, November 15, 2010 7:43:13 PM

>> *Subject:* Re: Re: New Born Baby

>>

>> *I could never have aborted my son! When I was 4 months pregnant with

>> him, we found out he had Hydrocephalus (too much fluid on the brain).

>> It can cause severe birth defects, even death, the doctor gave us the

>> abortion option, we didn't believe in it, and could never do that to

>> any of our kids! *

>> **

>> *The Hydrocephalus cleared up, but he was diagnosed with Aspergers

>> and Tourette's last year. My son has taught me a lot about

>> uncondtional love and forgiveness, that I believe no one else could

>> ever teach me. My son is a blessing from God, as I believe all these

>> kids with disabilties are.*

>> **

>> *Jenn*

>>

>> On Mon, Nov 15, 2010 at 9:32 AM, Cheryl <mom4girls5@...

>> <mailto:mom4girls5@...>> wrote:

>>

>> I never said we should debate abortion, although I don't believe

>> in it. There are agencies who are willing to help people with

>> their preborn and born babies who have " issues. " I'm just asking

>> that people consider it.

>>

>> Do you have a child with autism or asperger's or ??? Do you love

>> child anyway?

>>

>> Mom4girls5

>>

>> > >

>> > > Every measure should be used to keep alive the new born with

>> disability.

>> > > Every new born infant is a beautiful gift from god whether

>> he/she is normal or

>> > > disabled. They are precious and prevailed to our human

>> society. They should be ........................

>> >

>>

>

November 16, 2010

I am a bit baffled that people are saying " don't make blanket statements " while

making their own blanket statements. Every situation is different!! Some people

can handle things that others cannot. Even within marriages, some people can

become stronger while the same situation makes another weak. I think it is wrong

to call someone names because of them leaving his family without knowing the

whole story. I didn't get that from 's story. I think I got the point. That

this mother put everything she had into ONE child while neglecting her husband

and her other children. I have seen that too. It doesn't mean that she doesn't

love her other children or her husband, but the burden that is placed on the

family from her decisions was obviously too much for the others to handle.

Keeping her son was a decision that SHE made on her own. That doesn't mean that

it couldn't have worked out. The problem (as I understand it) was that she put

everything she had into her son and had noth!

ing left for anyone else. If this is the case, I can totally understand why her

family reacted the way they did. In my opinion, keeping the child wasn't wrong,

but some wrong choices were made along the way that had disastrous effects for

everyone.

I am glad to hear that others are able to bear their burdens. It is difficult to

not focus completely on the child that has special needs, but to give others the

attention that they need too.

I think people need to be less judgmental of others based on what they

understand because usually they only see one small part of a very big picture.

Judy

> Carolyn <charper777@...> wrote:

>

> Wow , what a sad story you have shared. I sure do hope folks don't

> take this story as a " blanket " view either! I know when my son was

> little they so called experts said all this would happen to me and to my

>

> family if I dared keep my son and not send him off to the institution

> and forget he was ever born. But I wouldn't do it so here he is, some 46

>

> years later! Of course I always looked at our situation as one sent by

> God to us for His reasons, many I am only figuring out now after all

> this time. I don't know what it is exactly but I think that my son and I

>

> bless people and encourage them somehow to keep on keeping on with their

>

> own lives as God touches them. It is a supernatural thing but I have

> seen it in action many many times, people just melt when they see me

> pushing my son in his wheelchair. He is such a handsome lad anyway and

> me just a little old gray haired woman of 69.

>

> I don't think my other three kids feel too bad about me keeping him, for

>

> one the were NOT neglected. I just went overboard with each one of them

> and was very active in all their activities. I gave my kids and am

> giving my 7 grandkids now so much of my attention because I was pretty

> much ignored as a child. I don't know if it was the times or what, back

> in the 40s and 50s kids were just part of the ordeal of life, they

> weren't so much looked at as blessings. Even to this day, my mom is 92,

> she thinks of me as an irritant, recently told me to go home so many

> times I lost count, and called the cops on me. No lie. I was cleaning

> stuff off her wheelchair ramp and she did not want me to touch it, you

> ever seen the TV show " Hoarders " people who love things more than people

>

> that's my mom. Sigh.

>

> But back to me, yes my husband did turn to alcoholism, but his dad and

> uncles all had it, it could have been my son was such a heartache to him

>

> I don't know. But he wasn't to me. I in fact quit drinking altogether so

>

> I could be a better mother to my kids.. Also my oldest son and youngest,

>

> my daughter turned to alcoholism. My brother and my ex, eventually he

> became my ex after 31 years of marriage, died from it, same thing,

> cirrhosis.

>

> I would just say it is how you look at it. With me I always believed in

> God and believed He had a plan for my life, and if He sent me kids then

> it was no accident, no matter if they did have disabilities. I did teach

>

> them one thing, if anything happened to them I would not abandon them

> either...would not reject them.

>

> The grandkids have been interesting, I raised three of them for 10 years

>

> while my daughter worked, since each was 2 months old. They grew up at

> the feet of their disabled uncle, Uncle Marty. Believe me those kids

> have NOT been neglected. They have seen many things such as seizures and

>

> they have learned that life is hard, and survival goes to those who push

>

> through these kinds of trials with love and faith in God.

>

> I would say that LOVE is what has saved the day at our house, a constant

>

> battle and constantly under attack if you will notice in the world

> around us.

>

> LOVE will win, my life and my son's has proved it, we are living

> examples and I think that gives others some kind of hope to go on!

>

> I hope so anyway!

>

> Didn't think I would write so much, can't find anybody to write to on

> this dratted computer anymore!

>

> Carolyn in Oregon, USA, hay our football team is #1 right now, woo hoo!

> Two more games to go though. ;o)) Oh yah wanted to say both my children

> have quit drinking and are in recovery, woo hoo again!

>

> Riley wrote:

> >

> > I think you will find it took hard work for everyone in this group to

> > get to where they are. I think we have also all had to learn not to

> > worry too much about what other people think of our kids, or us as

> > their parents.

> >

> > I know how hard it is to raise a kid with ASD and ADD, and my son only

>

> > has a mild case of both. Some days I think I am probably worse than

> > he is, but of course neither condition existed when I was a kid. I

> > admire parents who deal with far worse cases. But I have also seen

> > the long-term affects on a family of caring for children with

> > disabilities, especially if they are severe. One woman I know decided

>

> > to keep her severely disabled son, even though she was told that he

> > would need constant care 24/7, and probably would not survive past his

>

> > 5th birthday. Her husband was against the idea, but she told him he'd

>

> > cope, so he better get used to it. He left before the child was 5.

> > His words were that his wife 'left him the minute his son was born',

> > as she never had any time for him after that. Her 3 older children

> > had to help their father run the household, and help look after their

> > brother, and then do it on their own when their father left. None

> > remained with their mother longer than their 16th birthday. They

> > still refuse to speak with her or see her, as they feel she abandoned

> > them when their brother was born. She is now in her 70's and

> > suffering from a range of ailments and worries constantly about her

> > son, as she is sure no one will devote themselves to his care as she

> > has after she dies. When she has been asked about the effect it has

> > had on her family, she says she has no regrets. If they had been

> > 'real Christians and more unselfish', they would have devoted

> > themselves to the care of her son as she did. As they weren't, she

> > doesn't care how they were affected by her not being available to

> > them. As she has said often 'only my precious baby matters to me'.

> > All her income since her husband left her, and all the money spent on

> > her son's care has been at public expense. As has the expense of

> > people to care for her, her home, and her son now she cannot do so on

> > her own. She has only condemnation for the government and the medical

>

> > profession, as they have never done as much as they should have for

> > her son.

> >

> > So, while I don't question the benefits you - and your family - have

> > gained from your son, my experience makes me very wary of extending

> > your experience (or my own) to a blanket statement that 'we must do

> > everything we can for every child born', or that a child with

> > disabilities will be a positive thing for everyone.

> >

> > On 16/11/2010 5:12 PM, Brezen wrote:

> >

> >>

> >> Well that's your opinion, it took alot of hard work to get to where

> >> we are. I never said that people who disagree with me are selfish

> >> and bad parents. I said that " we " as a whole are unselfish and

> >> strong. There are people who hear that their child has a disability

> >> and there first thought is well what are people going to think about

> >> me - i was one of them - but I realized that i needed to stop

> >> thinking about - better yet - caring what other people thought about

>

> >> my son and how it would make me look. I still have days where it's

> >> hard to cope with all that we go through in a day. As far as the cost

>

> >> situation - no one but my family shares in the cost of raising my son

>

> >> - no public aid - no SSI. We (the adults go without for the kids)

> >> struggle every month to get by as I don't want to hear how my son is

> >> a burden on society! It's a shame how some people think that way.

> >>

> ------------------------------------------------------------------------

> >> *From:* Riley <klriley@...>

> >> *To:* Autism and Aspergers Treatment

> >> *Sent:* Mon, November 15, 2010 11:59:29 PM

> >> *Subject:* Re: Re: New Born Baby

> >>

> >> See, this is what I don't like about these discussions: because you

> >> have a successful relationship and find your son a 'blessing', you

> >> imply that those who disagree with your position are selfish and bad

> >> parents. There is a big difference betrween saying that having kids

> >> with disabilities is not easy and some people genuinely can't cope

> >> and implying that they also would find it a 'blessing' if they were

> >> just stronger and less selfish. I don't regret what I have done for

> >> my kids, but I also don't judge those who make different choices.

> >> Not everyone is in the position to make the choices some of us can

> >> make. I personally do not believe it is God's will that any child

> >> should have disabilities, or suffer any of the things that so many

> >> kids in this world suffer. That some parents learn to be better

> >> people from the experience may be good, but that still doesn't make

> >> it God's will. The thought 'God gave me a child with disabilities to

>

> >> show me how much he loves and trusts me - how much faith he has in

> >> me' - just doesn't sit well with my beliefs about God. I don't

> >> regret looking after my son, nor how much harder it was than if he

> >> had been 'normal', but I would still have preferred him to be

> >> 'normal' becasue of how much easier it would have been for him. I

> >> would not tell a parent who gave up a child with disabilities, or

> >> anyone who chose not to go through with a pregnancy that would result

>

> >> in a severely disabled child that they were not living up to God's

> >> expectations of them, because he would not give them this 'gift' if

> >> they weren't able to bear it. I am not that well informed of either

> >> God's will or the abilities of others to make that decision.

> >>

> >> This started with the assertion that we must do everything for every

> >> child born, no matter what the cost. I still don't believe that, nor

>

> >> do I believe it is fair to ask everyone else to share the cost of

> >> doing so. It doesn't mean I believe people with disabilities are

> >> worthless, just that we need to be practical. It was not meant to be

>

> >> personal - what you do is your choice, but you can't expect everyone

> >> to agree, to make the same choices you do, or to pay for you to do

> >> what you choose to do. Before agreeing that 'we must do everything

> >> for every child born' it might be worthwhile looking at how much that

>

> >> would cost in money, time and effort, and what else would have to be

> >> left undone if we do so.

> >>

> >> On 16/11/2010 4:06 PM, Brezen wrote:

> >>

> >>>

> >>> My daughter loves my son so much, she helps to teach him to read and

>

> >>> has been great for his therapies. His social skills have gone

> >>> through the roof as well as his developmental skills and I truely

> >>> believe it is because of her. As far as my newborn goes I know that

>

> >>> he will be a great brother to my other son as my children have been

> >>> raised to not think of people with disabilities as worthless or

> >>> anything like that. My daughter knows that my son is just like her

> >>> but needs a little help here and there with certain things. And

> >>> when she hears other kids or even adults talking bad about someone

> >>> who is " different " she gets upset because to her you are talking

> >>> about her brother. Failed marriages happen all the time and FYI me

> >>> and my fiance have been together for 10 years (5 of those years we

> >>> have been dealing with my sons Autism) and our relationship has only

>

> >>> become stronger. My son will never have the guilt of not living up

> >>> to God's expectations because I believe he was put here for a

> >>> reason, he has a purpose and if given the choice to go back in time

> >>> and have him be a " normal " child I wouldn't I would keep him the

> >>> same. Do you have kids? You're right having a child is good for

> >>> some people, those people are strong and so so unselfish we give up

> >>> alot of ourselves for our children and I don't regret it.

> >>>

> ------------------------------------------------------------------------

> >>> *From:* Riley <klriley@...>

> >>> *To:* Autism and Aspergers Treatment

> >>> *Sent:* Mon, November 15, 2010 10:48:56 PM

> >>> *Subject:* Re: Re: New Born Baby

> >>>

> >>> Having a child with disabilities is good for some people, but if you

>

> >>> have a look at the statistics for failed marriages as well as

> >>> considering the effects on other kids, I would hesitate to draw the

> >>> conclusion that whatever child you get, it is God's will that the

> >>> child should have disabilities and you are capable of handling the

> >>> situation. I think people with kids with disabilities have enough

> >>> stress without adding the guilt of them not living up to God's

> >>> expectations. Just because something is does not mean it is God's

> >>> will that it should be.

> >>>

> >>> On 16/11/2010 3:02 PM, Brezen wrote:

> >>>

> >>>>

> >>>> I agree children with disabilities are a blessing. My son is 5 and

>

> >>>> mildly Autistic and at first I didn't think that i could handle a

> >>>> child like him. But he has taught me to look at the world in a

> >>>> totally different way, if i could have known that he would be like

> >>>> this either before he was born or even as a newborn I would do

> >>>> everything in my power to make sure he could live as " normal " a

> >>>> life as possible. I was told with my 7 year old daughter that she

> >>>> could have been born with Spina Bifida and they day after she was

> >>>> born I was told she could have Downs Syndrome - here we are 7 years

>

> >>>> later and she's a perfect 7 year old. I would hate to think that

> >>>> there are people who would have said to never give her the chance

> >>>> because look what I would have missed out on. I recently gave

> >>>> birth 3 months ago to my 3rd child and to be honest when I found

> >>>> out i was pregnant I wasn't too sure that I was going to go through

>

> >>>> with this pregnancy, I was scared to have another child with Autism

>

> >>>> but the more I looked at my other son and the more I thought about

> >>>> it I knew I could handle it and would do whatever it took. I am

> >>>> sad to hear when parents choose to give there special needs

> >>>> children up for adoption or don't think that they should be given

> >>>> the chance at life. I believe that God knows what you are capapble

>

> >>>> of handling and gave you that precious gift to take care of.

> >>>>

> ------------------------------------------------------------------------

> >>>> *From:* Jenn <WldWestWoman@...>

> >>>> *To:* Autism and Aspergers Treatment

> >>>> *Sent:* Mon, November 15, 2010 7:43:13 PM

> >>>> *Subject:* Re: Re: New Born Baby

> >>>>

> >>>> *I could never have aborted my son! When I was 4 months pregnant

> >>>> with him, we found out he had Hydrocephalus (too much fluid on the

> >>>> brain). It can cause severe birth defects, even death, the doctor

> >>>> gave us the abortion option, we didn't believe in it, and could

> >>>> never do that to any of our kids! *

> >>>> **

> >>>> *The Hydrocephalus cleared up, but he was diagnosed with Aspergers

> >>>> and Tourette's last year. My son has taught me a lot about

> >>>> uncondtional love and forgiveness, that I believe no one else could

>

> >>>> ever teach me. My son is a blessing from God, as I believe all

> >>>> these kids with disabilties are.*

> >>>> **

> >>>> *Jenn*

> >>>>

> >>>> On Mon, Nov 15, 2010 at 9:32 AM, Cheryl <mom4girls5@...

> >>>> <mailto:mom4girls5@...>> wrote:

> >>>>

> >>>> I never said we should debate abortion, although I don't

> >>>> believe in it. There are agencies who are willing to help

> >>>> people with their preborn and born babies who have " issues. "

> >>>> I'm just asking that people consider it.

> >>>>

> >>>> Do you have a child with autism or asperger's or ??? Do you

> >>>> love child anyway?

> >>>>

> >>>> Mom4girls5

> >>>>

> >>>> > >

> >>>> > > Every measure should be used to keep alive the new born

> >>>> with disability.

> >>>> > > Every new born infant is a beautiful gift from god whether

> >>>> he/she is normal or

> >>>> > > disabled. They are precious and prevailed to our human

> >>>> society. They should be ........................

> >>>> >

> >>>>

> >>> Reply to sender

> >>>

> <mailto:klriley@...?subject=Re:%20%5BAutism and Aspergers Treatment%5D%20R

> e:%20New%20Born%20Baby>

> >>> | Reply to group

> >>>

> <mailto:Autism and Aspergers Treatment ?subject=Re:%20%5Bautism-asperger

> s%5D%20Re:%20New%20Born%20Baby>

> >>> | Reply via web post

> >>>

> <Autism and Aspergers Treatment/post;_ylc=X3oDMTJxZHFtaWg

> 3BF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzE4MDAzMzIEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA1MDYxNjE2BG1zZ0lkAzM3

> NTk2BHNlYwNmdHIEc2xrA3JwbHkEc3RpbWUDMTI4OTg4Mjk0MQ--?act=reply & messageNum

> =37596>

> >>> | Start a New Topic

> >>>

> <Autism and Aspergers Treatment/post;_ylc=X3oDMTJlbnZrcTV

> xBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzE4MDAzMzIEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA1MDYxNjE2BHNlYwNmdHIE

> c2xrA250cGMEc3RpbWUDMTI4OTg4Mjk0MQ-->

> >>>

> >>> Messages in this topic

> >>>

> <Autism and Aspergers Treatment/message/37545;_ylc=X3oDMT

> M2b3Z2dTM0BF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzE4MDAzMzIEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA1MDYxNjE2BG1

> zZ0lkAzM3NTk2BHNlYwNmdHIEc2xrA3Z0cGMEc3RpbWUDMTI4OTg4Mjk0MQR0cGNJZAMzNzU0

> NQ-->

> >>> (10)

> >>> Recent Activity:

> >>>

> >>> * New Members

> >>>

> <Autism and Aspergers Treatment/members;_ylc=X3oDMTJmYmVt

> dHUyBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzE4MDAzMzIEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA1MDYxNjE2BHNlYwN2d

> GwEc2xrA3ZtYnJzBHN0aW1lAzEyODk4ODI5NDE-?o=6>

> >>> 15

> >>>

> >>> Visit Your Group

> >>>

> <Autism and Aspergers Treatment;_ylc=X3oDMTJldXFqN3IzBF9T

> Azk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzE4MDAzMzIEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA1MDYxNjE2BHNlYwN2dGwEc2xrA

> 3ZnaHAEc3RpbWUDMTI4OTg4Mjk0MQ-->

> >>>

> >>> MARKETPLACE

> >>>

> >>> Hobbies & Activities Zone: Find others who share your passions!

> >>> Explore new interests.

> >>>

> <http://global.ard./SIG=15rprbm6o/M=493064.14012770.13963757.132

> 98430/D=grphealth/S=1705061616:MKP1/Y=/EXP=1289890141/L=d48ec400-f13

> c-11df-aaea-ab3fec55410d/B=0jb_CmKJiSA-/J=1289882941188071/K=Z9djRkU_J9ZO

> .b7euBbxxw/A=6015306/R=0/SIG=11vlkvigg/*http://advision.webevents..c

> om/hobbiesandactivitieszone/>

> >>>

> ------------------------------------------------------------------------

> >>>

> >>> Get great advice about dogs and cats. Visit the Dog & Cat Answers

> >>> Center.

> >>>

> <http://global.ard./SIG=15rh7pc86/M=493064.13814537.14041040.108

> 35568/D=grphealth/S=1705061616:MKP1/Y=/EXP=1289890141/L=d48ec400-f13

> c-11df-aaea-ab3fec55410d/B=0Tb_CmKJiSA-/J=1289882941188071/K=Z9djRkU_J9ZO

> .b7euBbxxw/A=6078812/R=0/SIG=114ae4ln1/*http://dogandcatanswers.

> />

> >>>

> ------------------------------------------------------------------------

> >>>

> >>> Stay on top of your group activity without leaving the page you're

> >>> on - Get the Toolbar now.

> >>>

> <http://global.ard./SIG=15rj5vag8/M=493064.13983314.14041046.132

> 98430/D=grphealth/S=1705061616:MKP1/Y=/EXP=1289890141/L=d48ec400-f13

> c-11df-aaea-ab3fec55410d/B=0Db_CmKJiSA-/J=1289882941188071/K=Z9djRkU_J9ZO

> .b7euBbxxw/A=6060255/R=0/SIG=1194m4keh/*http://us.toolbar./?.cpd

> l=grpj>

> >>>

> <;_ylc=X3oDMTJkdWdvZTU5BF9TAzk3NDc2NTkwBGdycElkAz

> E4MDAzMzIEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA1MDYxNjE2BHNlYwNmdHIEc2xrA2dmcARzdGltZQMxMjg5ODg

> yOTQx>

> >>>

> >>> Switch to: Text-Only

> >>>

> <mailto:Autism and Aspergers Treatment-traditional ?subject=Change%20Del

> ivery%20Format:%20Traditional>,

> >>> Daily Digest

> >>>

> <mailto:Autism and Aspergers Treatment-digest ?subject=Email%20Delivery:

> %20Digest>

> >>> Ã¢â‚¬Â¢ Unsubscribe

> >>>

> <mailto:Autism and Aspergers Treatment-unsubscribe ?subject=Unsubscribe>

>

> >>> Ã¢â‚¬Â¢ Terms of Use <>

> >>>

> >>

> >

November 16, 2010

Like u said, sometimes just a smile is enough to help us all get thru our day! My son's Aspergers has also motivated me to start my own autism support group in my area here in Utah, since we don't have one in our county. I just started it in August, and still trying to find people who want to come. Only have had one person show up so far, so I have a support group page on FB too now. I want to help give support to other parents who are struggling too... it helps to talk with others who understand.

Jenn

On Tue, Nov 16, 2010 at 11:48 AM, Carolyn <charper777@...> wrote:

Hi Jenn, I tend to agree with you, what a creep that guy was leaving ata time like that! Oh well she was probably better off without him in the

long run. I know how difficult it is to have a disabled child and wonderabout where they will ever live when they grow up. It is tough. I evenwondered this about my so called " normal " children and there have been

some real challenges in two of them way worse than my disabled son'sproblems, just think of the TV show " Intervention " that would be them,but they are getting through it, making better choices and taking

responsibility. Thank God I have one son who figured things out and tothis day is a very balanced educated and responsible man taking care ofhis family.I figure we can either think of ourselves as victims be held captive to

our circumstances, or we can take charge of our lives and make choicesand live by the results of them.Yes that was very sweet the girl drawing the picture for your son on thetrain. I know how that feels, just a nod of compassion, a smile of

encouragement can go a long long ways. And we need to do it more withothers every day I think. There is so much negativism and criticism andjudgment in this world we have to combat it. I believe much more inunconditional acceptance and showing love to others.

I once had an experience with my son, was really in a discouraged moodthat day some years ago, which I have been in a lot but always pushedthrough it to the bright side. Anyway I was so mad that day because my

son couldn't do anything so I took him out in his wheelchair and waspushing him along the bike trail by the river. It took a lot of strengthfrom me as he was big and heavy but I was so sick of him missing out on

everything. And this woman coming right at us, a jogger in nice joggingclothes, smiled a great big smile right at us! Wow! Her recognition ofour struggle really perked me up and encouragement shot right into me.

It was soooo powerful and came right out of her to me! And not everybodydid that, or had that, in fact several guy joggers just grimaced, kindof looked like they thought we were in their way, like they owned the

bike trail...I have never forgotten that smile, it changed me in an instant, and whenI took my son back to the car I just knew the present trial we were inwasn't going to last long, it wasn't going to stop us, that we would get

the strength to push on. And we did.Let us smile more people, especially at those struggling!I was recently on a bike ride all by myself the other day, and met twoboys and a girl at the park, and they had a little black puppy. I was

resting on a bench there after my hard ride just smiling and sweating.We didn't talk, all I did was smile and pet their puppy. They probablythought I was pretty old to be out there like that, they're grandma was

probably home in her rocking chair.And I thought they were pretty young, they sure had a long road to godown...and I had already done that and felt real good about my life.Carolyn ;o)Jenn wrote:

>> *I agree with u Tara. Raising a child with a disability, especially a

> severe one, is very hard and stressful. But it sounds like this guy> who left his wife, (in my opinion) was thinking more of himself then> his child. And while taking care of a severely disabled child, the Mom

> should have tried to figure out a way to find time for her husband and> kids. There are ways...*> **> *My son isn't severely disabled, but his Aspergers is more severe then> a lot of people with Aspergers. He is 12 years old, but he acts more

> like he is 7 or 8 years old. He still has a hard time bathing himself,> he doesn't know how to tie his shoes very well. And next year he is> going to be going to Jr. High, and I am seriously thinking about

> homeschooling, because I don't think emotionally he will be able to> handle it.*> **> *We believe my husband's brother who is 44, has Aspergers. And while> he acts young for his age, he doesn't have Aspergers as severe as our

> son. I think our son will probably be living with us until we die. His> teenage brother's say that they will help take care of him when we are> gone, which brings comfort to me, but at the same time I feel guilt.

> And when they both get married, I am not sure how their wives would> feel. So we are trying to figure out what to do, maybe by that time,> he will be able to live on his own. Who knows!*> **> *For those who don't believe they can raise a disabled child (in my

> opinion), should not get abortions, but give them up for adoption. I> have heard that there are people out there who are looking to adopt,> and don't mind if the kids are disabled.*> **> *As far as God's will... I don't know if it is God's will to have a

> child with a disability... but I do know that thru difficulities in my> life, my son has taught me many lessons, his disabilities has made me> into a much stronger and better person. Because of my son's Aspergers

> and Tourettes, I can handle so many things that I never thought I> could handle before. *>> *Yes, there are times I feel like giving up... I am only human. But I> don't ever regret having my son! Despite his disabilities, he is the

> most amazing person I have ever met! He always makes me smile! And he> has really made a difference in other's lives.*>> *Before I end this, I have to tell u all about something awesome that

> happened yesterday! We went on a fieldtrip with my son's class to the> Planetarium. We rode the trax train to the frontrunner to get home. My> son hates to be touched, and when the train started moving, some kids

> weren't holding on and bumped into my son, he almost had a meltdown,> but held it together.*>> *When we got off and onto the Frontrunner, this young lady (about 19)> that was on the trax train with us also got onto the Frontrunner. She

> mentioned my son having problems on the trax train, so I told her he> has Aspergers. She said she also has a relative with Aspergers. *> **> *A few minutes later, she asked me, " What is your son's name? " I told

> her and she said to my son, " , do u like dinosaurs? " He nodded,> and she handed him a paper with a drawing and said, " I made this for> u! " It was a pic of a dinosaur and it said, " Smile! ... It's addicting! " *

> **> *She was my angel for the day! It is because of people like that, that> help encourage me when times are tough, and to never give up on my son!>> Love,*> *Jenn*>> On Tue, Nov 16, 2010 at 12:06 AM, Taras <taras_29@...

> <mailto:taras_29@...>> wrote:>>>> I am thinking a husband that would leave due to HIS disabled child> probably wouldn't of been able to stick around no matter what.

> Divorce rate is high, but I do know of dads that are better with> their special needs child than the mom is. If my husband was going> to leave because of our daughter, I say good riddance! It wouldn't

> of worked out at some point anyway. I agree raising a special> needs child takes alot of energy and time which will definately> have its affects on a marriage and family, so extra time should

> also be spent on marriage and time with rest of family. There is> help out there....wether it be family, friends or government> funded help....there are ways to make it all work.> As far as failed marriages....husbands need to man up! Bit of

> sarcasm there....sorry...don't mean to offend anyone!! All I am> saying is, yes it is alot of work, but it is a choice that needs a> strong relationship which can be achieved.>

>>------------------------------------

November 16, 2010

Hello mom, I have read this discussion from the top to the bottom so it

is a little scrambled not having come to me in the proper order, but it

looks like it has evolved to the so called " quality of life " debate..

And I just want to say I am really uncomfortable when life is compared

to money because to me life is priceless and no monetary value can

possibly be placed upon it. Anyway we were caught up in this debate a

few months ago at our local ER. My son Marty has had problems with

swallowing due to neurological problems due to so many seizures over the

years, so consequently he's been on a food tube for several years now.

And with his problem comes the risk of aspiration pneumonia, which he

has had quite a few times and been hospitalized.

The way we take care of it is we watch him closely and if there is any

sign of it we rush him to ER and a chest x-ray is taken and if he has it

he is admitted and put on IV antibiotics.

Well this one night this one doctor began to chide us for coming to the

ER! He said my son's " quality of life " was bad and so we should not

come! All he needed that night was oral antibiotic since no pneumonia

showed on the x-ray yet this guy would not shut up about it! I got so

mad at him I told him, " You are NOT God! " and my husband told him he

reminded him of Hitler...he got a little steamed up since he loves my

son nearly as much as I do and we have taken care of him together for

over 20 years now through many terrible things.

Anyway I do thank the Lord that my son has made it through each crisis

and is still with us, and thank Him for sending medical science and

doctors and nurses to help us and to bless them since it was their

desire to prolong his life so he could remain a blessing to us.

For a long time I dreaded it when Dr. son was on duty when we had

to take my son in, just didn't want to see the guy he was such a downer,

but the other night, about two weeks ago when my husband was in another

hospital with knee replacement surgery I had to take my son alone to the

ER because his food tube fell out. When that happens you have to get him

in quickly before the stoma closes up, well there was Dr. son and

me with no back up. Strangely enough my son had a bad seizure in triage

and that put him into a high level of emergency and he went right back

and got all the tests...which came back negative.

So finally Dr. son came in to put in a new food tube and had a heck

of a time while I just smiled nicely and patted on my boy to comfort him

like I always do. Made the doctor really uncomfortable and later after I

was home I wondered what lesson God was teaching. One I could do my son

ON MY OWN without falling apart, His grace is sufficient, and two the

doctors and nurses freaked out at the seizure, guess they don't see many

and I was a calm as a clam. Next Dr. son being so nervous when we

were not..

Hay there are lessons there if you look for them....;o)

Carolyn

Cheryl wrote:

>

> If we do not treat every child who is born or do not offer all we can

> to someone elderly because of the cost, how do we get that money sent

> to the children who don't have enough food?

>

> Who should get to make the choice of who gets the medical care? Should

> we set an age at which we let people die because they are no longer

> useful? Should we also provide euthenasia for the elderly, that is the

> next step?

>

> Do you have a child with autism or asperber's or ??? Who should get to

> decide if your child gets medical care?

>

> Just curious on your ideas on these things . . .

>

> Mom4girls5

>

> > >

> > > I agree that any baby, even unborn should have all the rights of

> every

> > > person. That said, there is an agency who helps birthparents place

> > > their disabled baby for adoption with families who can accept the

> > > disability they have or may be born with.

> > >

> > > www.chask.org

> > >

> > > If you're trying to place your baby for adoption (or were planning to

> > > raise your child) and find out he/she may have a serious birth

> defect,

> > > contact CHASK. They have families waiting to adopt babies with

> special

> > > needs. They even have families on their webpages that you can

> choose from.

> > >

> > > I don't work for CHASK but I was one of their families. We now have

> > > ten kids, none through CHASK, but seven of them are adopted from

> > > foster care and have various medical and/or psychological issues

> > > including cerebral palsy and one baby with a hole in his heart.

> > >

> > > Every child deserves to live. Every child deserves a family.

> > >

> > > Mom4girls5

> > >

> >

>

November 16, 2010

Hi Judy, I wasn't making a blanket statement at all, just giving and

example of a first hand experience that was not so negative as the one

cited.

Yes I do believe every situation certainly has to be different, that is

true because we are all different, but with me I want to hear first hand

testimonies from people, not second hand hearsay, etc. For example I

would like to hear from the mother who I've been told chose to keep her

child and raise the child not from all of us who think WE know what she

thought and what her children thought, da, da, da, pretty sure that is

hearsay..

So I think that is the problem, just too much jabbering and not from the

person who lived it, first hand experience, like in a court of law..

I would sure hate to hear some of the stories that are said about my

life, people lie you know and spread rumors like a virus. I would just

like to know the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth.

Not enough of that going on.

Yes you are right I shouldn't have called the guy a creep, didn't know

all the information. But neither does anybody else, but him. He is the

only one who knows why he deserted the family in a time of need..

Carolyn

jghastings@... wrote:

> I am a bit baffled that people are saying " don't make blanket statements "

while making their own blanket statements. Every situation is different!! Some

people can handle things that others cannot. Even within marriages, some people

can become stronger while the same situation makes another weak. I think it is

wrong to call someone names because of them leaving his family without knowing

the whole story. I didn't get that from 's story. I think I got the point.

That this mother put everything she had into ONE child while neglecting her

husband and her other children. I have seen that too. It doesn't mean that she

doesn't love her other children or her husband, but the burden that is placed on

the family from her decisions was obviously too much for the others to handle.

Keeping her son was a decision that SHE made on her own. That doesn't mean that

it couldn't have worked out. The problem (as I understand it) was that she put

everything she had into her son and had noth!

> ing left for anyone else. If this is the case, I can totally understand why

her family reacted the way they did. In my opinion, keeping the child wasn't

wrong, but some wrong choices were made along the way that had disastrous

effects for everyone.

>

> I am glad to hear that others are able to bear their burdens. It is difficult

to not focus completely on the child that has special needs, but to give others

the attention that they need too.

>

> I think people need to be less judgmental of others based on what they

understand because usually they only see one small part of a very big picture.

>

> Judy

>

>> Carolyn <charper777@...> wrote:

>>

>> Wow , what a sad story you have shared. I sure do hope folks don't

>> take this story as a " blanket " view either! I know when my son was

>> little they so called experts said all this would happen to me and to my

>>

>> family if I dared keep my son and not send him off to the institution

>> and forget he was ever born. But I wouldn't do it so here he is, some 46

>>

>> years later! Of course I always looked at our situation as one sent by

>> God to us for His reasons, many I am only figuring out now after all

>> this time. I don't know what it is exactly but I think that my son and I

>>

>> bless people and encourage them somehow to keep on keeping on with their

>>

>> own lives as God touches them. It is a supernatural thing but I have

>> seen it in action many many times, people just melt when they see me

>> pushing my son in his wheelchair. He is such a handsome lad anyway and

>> me just a little old gray haired woman of 69.

>>

>> I don't think my other three kids feel too bad about me keeping him, for

>>

>> one the were NOT neglected. I just went overboard with each one of them

>> and was very active in all their activities. I gave my kids and am

>> giving my 7 grandkids now so much of my attention because I was pretty

>> much ignored as a child. I don't know if it was the times or what, back

>> in the 40s and 50s kids were just part of the ordeal of life, they

>> weren't so much looked at as blessings. Even to this day, my mom is 92,

>> she thinks of me as an irritant, recently told me to go home so many

>> times I lost count, and called the cops on me. No lie. I was cleaning

>> stuff off her wheelchair ramp and she did not want me to touch it, you

>> ever seen the TV show " Hoarders " people who love things more than people

>>

>> that's my mom. Sigh.

>>

>> But back to me, yes my husband did turn to alcoholism, but his dad and

>> uncles all had it, it could have been my son was such a heartache to him

>>

>> I don't know. But he wasn't to me. I in fact quit drinking altogether so

>>

>> I could be a better mother to my kids.. Also my oldest son and youngest,

>>

>> my daughter turned to alcoholism. My brother and my ex, eventually he

>> became my ex after 31 years of marriage, died from it, same thing,

>> cirrhosis.

>>

>> I would just say it is how you look at it. With me I always believed in

>> God and believed He had a plan for my life, and if He sent me kids then

>> it was no accident, no matter if they did have disabilities. I did teach

>>

>> them one thing, if anything happened to them I would not abandon them

>> either...would not reject them.

>>

>> The grandkids have been interesting, I raised three of them for 10 years

>>

>> while my daughter worked, since each was 2 months old. They grew up at

>> the feet of their disabled uncle, Uncle Marty. Believe me those kids

>> have NOT been neglected. They have seen many things such as seizures and

>>

>> they have learned that life is hard, and survival goes to those who push

>>

>> through these kinds of trials with love and faith in God.

>>

>> I would say that LOVE is what has saved the day at our house, a constant

>>

>> battle and constantly under attack if you will notice in the world

>> around us.

>>

>> LOVE will win, my life and my son's has proved it, we are living

>> examples and I think that gives others some kind of hope to go on!

>>

>> I hope so anyway!

>>

>> Didn't think I would write so much, can't find anybody to write to on

>> this dratted computer anymore!

>>

>> Carolyn in Oregon, USA, hay our football team is #1 right now, woo hoo!

>> Two more games to go though. ;o)) Oh yah wanted to say both my children

>> have quit drinking and are in recovery, woo hoo again!

>>

>> Riley wrote:

>>

>>>

>>> I think you will find it took hard work for everyone in this group to

>>> get to where they are. I think we have also all had to learn not to

>>> worry too much about what other people think of our kids, or us as

>>> their parents.

>>>

>>> I know how hard it is to raise a kid with ASD and ADD, and my son only

>>>

>>> has a mild case of both. Some days I think I am probably worse than

>>> he is, but of course neither condition existed when I was a kid. I

>>> admire parents who deal with far worse cases. But I have also seen

>>> the long-term affects on a family of caring for children with

>>> disabilities, especially if they are severe. One woman I know decided

>>>

>>> to keep her severely disabled son, even though she was told that he

>>> would need constant care 24/7, and probably would not survive past his

>>>

>>> 5th birthday. Her husband was against the idea, but she told him he'd

>>>

>>> cope, so he better get used to it. He left before the child was 5.

>>> His words were that his wife 'left him the minute his son was born',

>>> as she never had any time for him after that. Her 3 older children

>>> had to help their father run the household, and help look after their

>>> brother, and then do it on their own when their father left. None

>>> remained with their mother longer than their 16th birthday. They

>>> still refuse to speak with her or see her, as they feel she abandoned

>>> them when their brother was born. She is now in her 70's and

>>> suffering from a range of ailments and worries constantly about her

>>> son, as she is sure no one will devote themselves to his care as she

>>> has after she dies. When she has been asked about the effect it has

>>> had on her family, she says she has no regrets. If they had been

>>> 'real Christians and more unselfish', they would have devoted

>>> themselves to the care of her son as she did. As they weren't, she

>>> doesn't care how they were affected by her not being available to

>>> them. As she has said often 'only my precious baby matters to me'.

>>> All her income since her husband left her, and all the money spent on

>>> her son's care has been at public expense. As has the expense of

>>> people to care for her, her home, and her son now she cannot do so on

>>> her own. She has only condemnation for the government and the medical

>>>

>>> profession, as they have never done as much as they should have for

>>> her son.

>>>

>>> So, while I don't question the benefits you - and your family - have

>>> gained from your son, my experience makes me very wary of extending

>>> your experience (or my own) to a blanket statement that 'we must do

>>> everything we can for every child born', or that a child with

>>> disabilities will be a positive thing for everyone.

>>>

>>> On 16/11/2010 5:12 PM, Brezen wrote:

>>>

>>>>

>>>> Well that's your opinion, it took alot of hard work to get to where

>>>> we are. I never said that people who disagree with me are selfish

>>>> and bad parents. I said that " we " as a whole are unselfish and

>>>> strong. There are people who hear that their child has a disability

>>>> and there first thought is well what are people going to think about

>>>> me - i was one of them - but I realized that i needed to stop

>>>> thinking about - better yet - caring what other people thought about

>>>>

>>>> my son and how it would make me look. I still have days where it's

>>>> hard to cope with all that we go through in a day. As far as the cost

>>>>

>>>> situation - no one but my family shares in the cost of raising my son

>>>>

>>>> - no public aid - no SSI. We (the adults go without for the kids)

>>>> struggle every month to get by as I don't want to hear how my son is

>>>> a burden on society! It's a shame how some people think that way.

>>>>

>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------

>>

>>>> *From:* Riley <klriley@...>

>>>> *To:* Autism and Aspergers Treatment

>>>> *Sent:* Mon, November 15, 2010 11:59:29 PM

>>>> *Subject:* Re: Re: New Born Baby

>>>>

>>>> See, this is what I don't like about these discussions: because you

>>>> have a successful relationship and find your son a 'blessing', you

>>>> imply that those who disagree with your position are selfish and bad

>>>> parents. There is a big difference betrween saying that having kids

>>>> with disabilities is not easy and some people genuinely can't cope

>>>> and implying that they also would find it a 'blessing' if they were

>>>> just stronger and less selfish. I don't regret what I have done for

>>>> my kids, but I also don't judge those who make different choices.

>>>> Not everyone is in the position to make the choices some of us can

>>>> make. I personally do not believe it is God's will that any child

>>>> should have disabilities, or suffer any of the things that so many

>>>> kids in this world suffer. That some parents learn to be better

>>>> people from the experience may be good, but that still doesn't make

>>>> it God's will. The thought 'God gave me a child with disabilities to

>>>>

>>>> show me how much he loves and trusts me - how much faith he has in

>>>> me' - just doesn't sit well with my beliefs about God. I don't

>>>> regret looking after my son, nor how much harder it was than if he

>>>> had been 'normal', but I would still have preferred him to be

>>>> 'normal' becasue of how much easier it would have been for him. I

>>>> would not tell a parent who gave up a child with disabilities, or

>>>> anyone who chose not to go through with a pregnancy that would result

>>>>

>>>> in a severely disabled child that they were not living up to God's

>>>> expectations of them, because he would not give them this 'gift' if

>>>> they weren't able to bear it. I am not that well informed of either

>>>> God's will or the abilities of others to make that decision.

>>>>

>>>> This started with the assertion that we must do everything for every

>>>> child born, no matter what the cost. I still don't believe that, nor

>>>>

>>>> do I believe it is fair to ask everyone else to share the cost of

>>>> doing so. It doesn't mean I believe people with disabilities are

>>>> worthless, just that we need to be practical. It was not meant to be

>>>>

>>>> personal - what you do is your choice, but you can't expect everyone

>>>> to agree, to make the same choices you do, or to pay for you to do

>>>> what you choose to do. Before agreeing that 'we must do everything

>>>> for every child born' it might be worthwhile looking at how much that

>>>>

>>>> would cost in money, time and effort, and what else would have to be

>>>> left undone if we do so.

>>>>

>>>> On 16/11/2010 4:06 PM, Brezen wrote:

>>>>

>>>>>

>>>>> My daughter loves my son so much, she helps to teach him to read and

>>>>>

>>>>> has been great for his therapies. His social skills have gone

>>>>> through the roof as well as his developmental skills and I truely

>>>>> believe it is because of her. As far as my newborn goes I know that

>>>>>

>>>>> he will be a great brother to my other son as my children have been

>>>>> raised to not think of people with disabilities as worthless or

>>>>> anything like that. My daughter knows that my son is just like her

>>>>> but needs a little help here and there with certain things. And

>>>>> when she hears other kids or even adults talking bad about someone

>>>>> who is " different " she gets upset because to her you are talking

>>>>> about her brother. Failed marriages happen all the time and FYI me

>>>>> and my fiance have been together for 10 years (5 of those years we

>>>>> have been dealing with my sons Autism) and our relationship has only

>>>>>

>>>>> become stronger. My son will never have the guilt of not living up

>>>>> to God's expectations because I believe he was put here for a

>>>>> reason, he has a purpose and if given the choice to go back in time

>>>>> and have him be a " normal " child I wouldn't I would keep him the

>>>>> same. Do you have kids? You're right having a child is good for

>>>>> some people, those people are strong and so so unselfish we give up

>>>>> alot of ourselves for our children and I don't regret it.

>>>>>

>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------

>>

>>>>> *From:* Riley <klriley@...>

>>>>> *To:* Autism and Aspergers Treatment

>>>>> *Sent:* Mon, November 15, 2010 10:48:56 PM

>>>>> *Subject:* Re: Re: New Born Baby

>>>>>

>>>>> Having a child with disabilities is good for some people, but if you

>>>>>

>>>>> have a look at the statistics for failed marriages as well as

>>>>> considering the effects on other kids, I would hesitate to draw the

>>>>> conclusion that whatever child you get, it is God's will that the

>>>>> child should have disabilities and you are capable of handling the

>>>>> situation. I think people with kids with disabilities have enough

>>>>> stress without adding the guilt of them not living up to God's

>>>>> expectations. Just because something is does not mean it is God's

>>>>> will that it should be.

>>>>>

>>>>> On 16/11/2010 3:02 PM, Brezen wrote:

>>>>>

>>>>>>

>>>>>> I agree children with disabilities are a blessing. My son is 5 and

>>>>>>

>>>>>> mildly Autistic and at first I didn't think that i could handle a

>>>>>> child like him. But he has taught me to look at the world in a

>>>>>> totally different way, if i could have known that he would be like

>>>>>> this either before he was born or even as a newborn I would do

>>>>>> everything in my power to make sure he could live as " normal " a

>>>>>> life as possible. I was told with my 7 year old daughter that she

>>>>>> could have been born with Spina Bifida and they day after she was

>>>>>> born I was told she could have Downs Syndrome - here we are 7 years

>>>>>>

>>>>>> later and she's a perfect 7 year old. I would hate to think that

>>>>>> there are people who would have said to never give her the chance

>>>>>> because look what I would have missed out on. I recently gave

>>>>>> birth 3 months ago to my 3rd child and to be honest when I found

>>>>>> out i was pregnant I wasn't too sure that I was going to go through

>>>>>>

>>>>>> with this pregnancy, I was scared to have another child with Autism

>>>>>>

>>>>>> but the more I looked at my other son and the more I thought about

>>>>>> it I knew I could handle it and would do whatever it took. I am

>>>>>> sad to hear when parents choose to give there special needs

>>>>>> children up for adoption or don't think that they should be given

>>>>>> the chance at life. I believe that God knows what you are capapble

>>>>>>

>>>>>> of handling and gave you that precious gift to take care of.

>>>>>>

>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------

>>

>>>>>> *From:* Jenn <WldWestWoman@...>

>>>>>> *To:* Autism and Aspergers Treatment

>>>>>> *Sent:* Mon, November 15, 2010 7:43:13 PM

>>>>>> *Subject:* Re: Re: New Born Baby

>>>>>>

>>>>>> *I could never have aborted my son! When I was 4 months pregnant

>>>>>> with him, we found out he had Hydrocephalus (too much fluid on the

>>>>>> brain). It can cause severe birth defects, even death, the doctor

>>>>>> gave us the abortion option, we didn't believe in it, and could

>>>>>> never do that to any of our kids! *

>>>>>> **

>>>>>> *The Hydrocephalus cleared up, but he was diagnosed with Aspergers

>>>>>> and Tourette's last year. My son has taught me a lot about

>>>>>> uncondtional love and forgiveness, that I believe no one else could

>>>>>>

>>>>>> ever teach me. My son is a blessing from God, as I believe all

>>>>>> these kids with disabilties are.*

>>>>>> **

>>>>>> *Jenn*

>>>>>>

>>>>>> On Mon, Nov 15, 2010 at 9:32 AM, Cheryl <mom4girls5@...

>>>>>> <mailto:mom4girls5@...>> wrote:

>>>>>>

>>>>>> I never said we should debate abortion, although I don't

>>>>>> believe in it. There are agencies who are willing to help

>>>>>> people with their preborn and born babies who have " issues. "

>>>>>> I'm just asking that people consider it.

>>>>>>

>>>>>> Do you have a child with autism or asperger's or ??? Do you

>>>>>> love child anyway?

>>>>>>

>>>>>> Mom4girls5

>>>>>>

>>>>>> > >

>>>>>> > > Every measure should be used to keep alive the new born

>>>>>> with disability.

>>>>>> > > Every new born infant is a beautiful gift from god whether

>>>>>> he/she is normal or

>>>>>> > > disabled. They are precious and prevailed to our human

>>>>>> society. They should be ........................

>>>>>> >

>>>>>>

>>>>> Reply to sender

>>>>>

>> <mailto:klriley@...?subject=Re:%20%5BAutism and Aspergers Treatment%5D%20R

>> e:%20New%20Born%20Baby>

>>

>>>>> | Reply to group

>>>>>

>> <mailto:Autism and Aspergers Treatment ?subject=Re:%20%5Bautism-asperger

>> s%5D%20Re:%20New%20Born%20Baby>

>>

>>>>> | Reply via web post

>>>>>

>> <Autism and Aspergers Treatment/post;_ylc=X3oDMTJxZHFtaWg

>> 3BF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzE4MDAzMzIEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA1MDYxNjE2BG1zZ0lkAzM3

>> NTk2BHNlYwNmdHIEc2xrA3JwbHkEc3RpbWUDMTI4OTg4Mjk0MQ--?act=reply & messageNum

>> =37596>

>>

>>>>> | Start a New Topic

>>>>>

>> <Autism and Aspergers Treatment/post;_ylc=X3oDMTJlbnZrcTV

>> xBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzE4MDAzMzIEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA1MDYxNjE2BHNlYwNmdHIE

>> c2xrA250cGMEc3RpbWUDMTI4OTg4Mjk0MQ-->

>>

>>>>> Messages in this topic

>>>>>

>> <Autism and Aspergers Treatment/message/37545;_ylc=X3oDMT

>> M2b3Z2dTM0BF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzE4MDAzMzIEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA1MDYxNjE2BG1

>> zZ0lkAzM3NTk2BHNlYwNmdHIEc2xrA3Z0cGMEc3RpbWUDMTI4OTg4Mjk0MQR0cGNJZAMzNzU0

>> NQ-->

>>

>>>>> (10)

>>>>> Recent Activity:

>>>>>

>>>>> * New Members

>>>>>

>> <Autism and Aspergers Treatment/members;_ylc=X3oDMTJmYmVt

>> dHUyBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzE4MDAzMzIEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA1MDYxNjE2BHNlYwN2d

>> GwEc2xrA3ZtYnJzBHN0aW1lAzEyODk4ODI5NDE-?o=6>

>>

>>>>> 15

>>>>>

>>>>> Visit Your Group

>>>>>

>> <Autism and Aspergers Treatment;_ylc=X3oDMTJldXFqN3IzBF9T

>> Azk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzE4MDAzMzIEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA1MDYxNjE2BHNlYwN2dGwEc2xrA

>> 3ZnaHAEc3RpbWUDMTI4OTg4Mjk0MQ-->

>>

>>>>> MARKETPLACE

>>>>>

>>>>> Hobbies & Activities Zone: Find others who share your passions!

>>>>> Explore new interests.

>>>>>

>> <http://global.ard./SIG=15rprbm6o/M=493064.14012770.13963757.132

>> 98430/D=grphealth/S=1705061616:MKP1/Y=/EXP=1289890141/L=d48ec400-f13

>> c-11df-aaea-ab3fec55410d/B=0jb_CmKJiSA-/J=1289882941188071/K=Z9djRkU_J9ZO

>> .b7euBbxxw/A=6015306/R=0/SIG=11vlkvigg/*http://advision.webevents..c

>> om/hobbiesandactivitieszone/>

>>

>>>>>

>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------

>>

>>>>> Get great advice about dogs and cats. Visit the Dog & Cat Answers

>>>>> Center.

>>>>>

>> <http://global.ard./SIG=15rh7pc86/M=493064.13814537.14041040.108

>> 35568/D=grphealth/S=1705061616:MKP1/Y=/EXP=1289890141/L=d48ec400-f13

>> c-11df-aaea-ab3fec55410d/B=0Tb_CmKJiSA-/J=1289882941188071/K=Z9djRkU_J9ZO

>> .b7euBbxxw/A=6078812/R=0/SIG=114ae4ln1/*http://dogandcatanswers.

>> />

>>

>>>>>

>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------

>>

>>>>> Stay on top of your group activity without leaving the page you're

>>>>> on - Get the Toolbar now.

>>>>>

>> <http://global.ard./SIG=15rj5vag8/M=493064.13983314.14041046.132

>> 98430/D=grphealth/S=1705061616:MKP1/Y=/EXP=1289890141/L=d48ec400-f13

>> c-11df-aaea-ab3fec55410d/B=0Db_CmKJiSA-/J=1289882941188071/K=Z9djRkU_J9ZO

>> .b7euBbxxw/A=6060255/R=0/SIG=1194m4keh/*http://us.toolbar./?.cpd

>> l=grpj>

>>

>>>>>

>> <;_ylc=X3oDMTJkdWdvZTU5BF9TAzk3NDc2NTkwBGdycElkAz

>> E4MDAzMzIEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA1MDYxNjE2BHNlYwNmdHIEc2xrA2dmcARzdGltZQMxMjg5ODg

>> yOTQx>

>>

>>>>> Switch to: Text-Only

>>>>>

>> <mailto:Autism and Aspergers Treatment-traditional ?subject=Change%20Del

>> ivery%20Format:%20Traditional>,

>>

>>>>> Daily Digest

>>>>>

>> <mailto:Autism and Aspergers Treatment-digest ?subject=Email%20Delivery:

>> %20Digest>

>>

>>>>> Ã¢â‚¬Â¢ Unsubscribe

>>>>>

>> <mailto:Autism and Aspergers Treatment-unsubscribe ?subject=Unsubscribe>

>>

>>>>> Ã¢â‚¬Â¢ Terms of Use <>

>>>>>

>

> ------------------------------------

>

November 16, 2010

My point was that when people genuinely can't cope with a situation

they are in, to tell them it is God's will and that therefore they

must be able to cope simply adds more stress to someone who has

enough.Â To some people, believing it is God's will allows them to

cope, but for some it simply makes it worse.Â We (Christians) are

told that God works for good in everything, not that every situation

is good in itself.Â A woman I know took years to recover after being

told she was going against God's will for leaving her husband, and

if she had had more faith and been more loving he would have

changed.Â She put up with him beating her and the kids for years.Â

To be told that that was God's will for her, and that it was her

fault that her husband was 'lost' was almost more than she could

live with.Â She was close to suicide when a retired pastor's wife

took her aside and told her very bluntly that it was not God's will

for her and her children to be beaten up, and God would not hold her

responsible for her husband's decisions.Â She finally believed it,

but it still took her years to recover from the damage.Â I believe

God is good, and those who tell people that all the bad things that

happen is 'God's will' are lying.Â It is not God's will that women

should be raped and beaten up, that children should die from so many

preventable causes, or that children are born with disabilities.Â I

believe it is God's will that everyone should have a healthy and

happy life.Â It may be in God's plan that we should care for a child

with disabilities, but that is a different thing.

[For other Christians, I'm sorry if my belief offends you, but I

come from a long line of Wesleyans and the belief in free will and

taking responsibility for your choices runs deep, as does an

abhorrence of saying God wills the evil we see around us.Â He may

allow it, and even bring good out of some of it, but a God who

chooses/plans tohave children suffer is not a God I can believe in].

On 17/11/2010 5:55 AM, Carolyn wrote:

Â

Hmm, was trying to understand your point . And what

I think is you

have done is put the cart before the horse here. If you

put God first

then the rest will make sense. God won't make you feel

bad. He makes you

feel good..!

Carolyn ;o)

Riley wrote:

>

> Having a child with disabilities is good for some

people, but if you

> have a look at the statistics for failed marriages as

well as

> considering the effects on other kids, I would

hesitate to draw the

> conclusion that whatever child you get, it is God's

will that the

> child should have disabilities and you are capable of

handling the

> situation. I think people with kids with disabilities

have enough

> stress without adding the guilt of them not living up

to God's

> expectations. Just because something is does not mean

it is God's

> will that it should be.

>

November 16, 2010

I didn't tell the whole story. The father remained a good father to his

3 daughters, and to two kids from his next marriage, and was a good

husband to his second wife. He cares full-time for his wife who is an

invalid. I agree the mother did not necessarily make the wrong decision

when she decided to keep her son. She did make the wrong decision to

make one child the sole focus of her life 24/7. She had offers of help,

she was advised to spend time with her husband and children, but for

her, her whole life was in caring for her son. She wanted her husband

to give up work and rely on faith to survive so he also could devote his

life to her son (and he was always 'her' son, never 'their son'). Most

people who know him believe he should have left much sooner - apparently

including his parents-in-law. Her husband and children helped with

looking after her son, and many relatives offered to help. She either

refused, or when people did help, it was never enough, and never good

enough. Nothing but total devotion was/is acceptable. Whatever

situation we are in, if we want a marriage to last, we have to be

prepared to let our partner know that they are loved, wanted and

valuable as as a person, not just for what they can do for us. This

woman gave the opposite message to her entire family. She says her

family abandoned her, but it was really she who abandoned them.

I know a few families with children with some sort of disability, and

most have coped. But you just can't make a general rule based on a few

experiences. Some people can't cope. It is not necessarily because

they are bad people. We don't know all the circumstances of others'

lives, so it is better to support them in the decisions they make than

to tell them they are wrong because we would make a different choice.

On 17/11/2010 7:54 AM, jghastings@... wrote: