Guest guest Posted February 21, 2001 Report Share Posted February 21, 2001 LOL I'm guessing your wife doesn't get up at 4:30. My husband and I have a deal for the weekdays; he doesn't keep me up late and I don't wake him up in the morning. ) Are supplements besides vitamins and calcium really essential to the program? I read about them on the Hussman site but it's hard for me to totally get all of this because most people don't take this stuff and I guess I'm ignorant enough on the topic to keep crossing them with the thought of taking steriods. Yuck! Any feedback? Thanks! Theresa >From: " Kit Keyes " <kit.keyes@...> >Reply-bodyforlife >bodyforlife >Subject: RE: Re: Muscle Aches/Kit >Date: Wed, 21 Feb 2001 11:00:31 -0800 > >Not when the plan is to get more sleep. _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 21, 2001 Report Share Posted February 21, 2001 Theresa, LOL, I need the same agreement with Libbi, but while she agreed at one point, it rarely happens. As to supplements check out the march issue of Muscle Media Magazine. For fat loss, I'd recommend the following, but be sure to check them out on your own. Phen Free if you want a thermogenic which increases your metabolism. I use coffee, but Phen Free is probably more effective. At this time I do not recommend ephedra based products but I'm conservative on many things. BetaGen contains creatine and HMB. I'm convinced both work to increase muscle. I'm less convinced that HMB significantly helps fat loss, but studies support that claim. You need to split your recommended daily intake into 6-12 servings to get the fat loss benefit. Too much trouble for me. On the other hand I believe it helps you keep from losing muscle as you will be in a catabolic state a lot in a fat loss designed program. Anything which prevents muscle loss or promotes muscle gain is good in a fat loss program. Optional: One serving of RiboForce HP right after weight workouts. This provides a readily available creatine and ribose source when your muscles are at the best time for nutrient uptake. Optional: Cyto-vol if you have the spare cash, although if you are having two to three meal replacements, why go there? Well glutamine is anti-catabolic and helps to shut down cortisol, the hormone that is released by stress such as weight lifting that catabolizes muscle. Cytovol after workouts can help shut down cortisol and before bed can help prevent protein breakdown over the long night. EFA's: be sure to eat salmon, tuna and take olive oil, flax seed oil, and or fish oil. I use olive oil and basalmic on all my salads and take omega 3 fish oil caps. I also eat salmon and tuna regularly. Multivitamins and extra vitamin C. Calcium tablets with magnesium. meal replacements as needed to stay on track with the six meals. protein powder to supplement protein requirements as necessary. just a few thoughts. That's my current thoughts. I must say I'm in the middle of a 12 week experiment and use no creatine, BetaGen, HMB, RiboForce, Cytovol, Phosphagen hp. I've also scaled back the cardio to two days. You'd be panicking about now if you were on a fat loss plan. LOL. My strength, other than chest and shoulders which are in rest mode due to a hurt deltoid, is at an all time high six weeks into the latest round and I'm about to change strategy to new exercises and increased cardio. I expect to drop fat and retain much of what I've gained in muscle. I'll let you know in a few weeks how it's going. Kit Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 21, 2001 Report Share Posted February 21, 2001 Theresa, LOL, I need the same agreement with Libbi, but while she agreed at one point, it rarely happens. As to supplements check out the march issue of Muscle Media Magazine. For fat loss, I'd recommend the following, but be sure to check them out on your own. Phen Free if you want a thermogenic which increases your metabolism. I use coffee, but Phen Free is probably more effective. At this time I do not recommend ephedra based products but I'm conservative on many things. BetaGen contains creatine and HMB. I'm convinced both work to increase muscle. I'm less convinced that HMB significantly helps fat loss, but studies support that claim. You need to split your recommended daily intake into 6-12 servings to get the fat loss benefit. Too much trouble for me. On the other hand I believe it helps you keep from losing muscle as you will be in a catabolic state a lot in a fat loss designed program. Anything which prevents muscle loss or promotes muscle gain is good in a fat loss program. Optional: One serving of RiboForce HP right after weight workouts. This provides a readily available creatine and ribose source when your muscles are at the best time for nutrient uptake. Optional: Cyto-vol if you have the spare cash, although if you are having two to three meal replacements, why go there? Well glutamine is anti-catabolic and helps to shut down cortisol, the hormone that is released by stress such as weight lifting that catabolizes muscle. Cytovol after workouts can help shut down cortisol and before bed can help prevent protein breakdown over the long night. EFA's: be sure to eat salmon, tuna and take olive oil, flax seed oil, and or fish oil. I use olive oil and basalmic on all my salads and take omega 3 fish oil caps. I also eat salmon and tuna regularly. Multivitamins and extra vitamin C. Calcium tablets with magnesium. meal replacements as needed to stay on track with the six meals. protein powder to supplement protein requirements as necessary. just a few thoughts. That's my current thoughts. I must say I'm in the middle of a 12 week experiment and use no creatine, BetaGen, HMB, RiboForce, Cytovol, Phosphagen hp. I've also scaled back the cardio to two days. You'd be panicking about now if you were on a fat loss plan. LOL. My strength, other than chest and shoulders which are in rest mode due to a hurt deltoid, is at an all time high six weeks into the latest round and I'm about to change strategy to new exercises and increased cardio. I expect to drop fat and retain much of what I've gained in muscle. I'll let you know in a few weeks how it's going. Kit Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 21, 2001 Report Share Posted February 21, 2001 >Phen Free if you want a thermogenic which increases your metabolism. I use >coffee, but Phen Free is probably more effective. At this time I do not >recommend ephedra based products but I'm conservative on many things. Be careful with Phen Free though. It tends to cause insomnia. I started taking it but it was inhibiting my sleep so I stopped taking it. If anyone is interested in the rest of the bottle (almost full), let me know and I'll send it to ya. >BetaGen contains creatine and HMB. I'm convinced both work to increase >muscle. I'm less convinced that HMB significantly helps fat loss, but >studies support that claim. You need to split your recommended daily intake >into 6-12 servings to get the fat loss benefit. Too much trouble for me. >On the other hand I believe it helps you keep from losing muscle as you will >be in a catabolic state a lot in a fat loss designed program. Anything >which prevents muscle loss or promotes muscle gain is good in a fat loss >program. I was also taking BetaGen but after doing some research and talking to Deus (super great guy, btw), I decided to stop taking it and switch to pure creatine. Research hasn't proved that HMB really does anything to humans, only to cows. Again, if anyone is interested in the rest of the container, let me know. Tina Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 21, 2001 Report Share Posted February 21, 2001 >Phen Free if you want a thermogenic which increases your metabolism. I use >coffee, but Phen Free is probably more effective. At this time I do not >recommend ephedra based products but I'm conservative on many things. Be careful with Phen Free though. It tends to cause insomnia. I started taking it but it was inhibiting my sleep so I stopped taking it. If anyone is interested in the rest of the bottle (almost full), let me know and I'll send it to ya. >BetaGen contains creatine and HMB. I'm convinced both work to increase >muscle. I'm less convinced that HMB significantly helps fat loss, but >studies support that claim. You need to split your recommended daily intake >into 6-12 servings to get the fat loss benefit. Too much trouble for me. >On the other hand I believe it helps you keep from losing muscle as you will >be in a catabolic state a lot in a fat loss designed program. Anything >which prevents muscle loss or promotes muscle gain is good in a fat loss >program. I was also taking BetaGen but after doing some research and talking to Deus (super great guy, btw), I decided to stop taking it and switch to pure creatine. Research hasn't proved that HMB really does anything to humans, only to cows. Again, if anyone is interested in the rest of the container, let me know. Tina Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 21, 2001 Report Share Posted February 21, 2001 I disagree with the conclusion that Deus advanced that research has just been on cows. human research has been reported in Muscle media Magazine with citations. HMB has also been tested with AIDS patients to prevent the tremendous muscle loss in advanced stages and it worked in those applications as well. Deus has made it clear that he believes it is useless, and he's entitled to his opinion. HMB was developed in the beef industry to change the muscle profile in beef cattle. An Iowa State professor, Dr. Steve Nissen, who is a DVM, not an MD. is noted to be the preeminent researcher and expert on HMB. If you go to the EAS site and read the description of HMB, one of Dr, Nissen's studies on resistance training using HMB vs. a control group is cited. Muscle Media has had very informative interviews in the past of Dr. Nissen and the history of the development of HMB. That said I'm not trying to be controversial. The march issue of Muscle Media has a useful article on supplements that you might want to check out. I don't disagree with your choice to use creatine alone or others who choose not to use either. More important is the nutrition and the six intense training sessions. I gave my recommendations for supplementation for fat loss. That was all. Everyone is free to weigh in on the subject. As to the Phen Free it is recommended for the mornings of cardio days up to four days a week. If you take it too late in the day it can interfere with sleep and we have had a number of reports of different people reacting differently in terms of tolerating it. Some get the shakes and very nervous and others are fine and take larger doses. People differ. A note with creatine is that more is not better. It just taxes the kidneys and literally goes down the toilet. Your muscles can only take in so much. Kit Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 21, 2001 Report Share Posted February 21, 2001 >I disagree with the conclusion that Deus advanced that research has just >been on cows. Sorry, either I misspoke or wasn't clear. I know Deus' opinion, but on doing research on my own, I found that the studies on humans that I read were inconclusive or of too small a scope to be any proof of anything, and the ones that did prove it worked was only done on animals. >Muscle Media has had very >informative interviews in the past of Dr. Nissen and the history of the >development of HMB. Understood. However, I'm a little leery about research and statistics quoted by someone who is in a position to gain financially if a certain conclusion is reached. >As to the Phen Free it is recommended for the mornings of cardio days up to >four days a week. If you take it too late in the day it can interfere with >sleep and we have had a number of reports of different people reacting >differently in terms of tolerating it. Some get the shakes and very nervous >and others are fine and take larger doses. People differ. I used it first thing in the mornings. I should note, however, that I had to open the capsules and dissolve it in Crystal Light, as I am unable to consume anything as large as those capsules are due to my gastric bypass. That may or may not have had something to do with my jitters and insomnia. >A note with creatine is that more is not better. It just taxes the kidneys >and literally goes down the toilet. Your muscles can only take in so much. Agreed. After my initial week of loading, I'm doing 2 doses a day for maintenance. Not only that, its vital that anyone using supplements containing creatine consume large quantities of fluid. In the research I've read, the problems that have arisin with people using creatine seems to be due to the lack of sufficient fluid intake rather than the creatine itself. Tina Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 22, 2001 Report Share Posted February 22, 2001 Thanks for all the info. I'm going to have to go to the store today and pick up a few more things . . . like supplements! ) Theresa _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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