BFL ripoff?

[Guest guest]

Hey, Tina-how are you doing this week? I know you were a little discouraged

last week, are things feeling a little easier for you this week? Are you

getting over that yucky illness? How were your biscuits and gravy this

morning on your free day, I'm sure that helped you feel a little better! :-)

Keep up the hard work,

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 3/7/01 3:02:32 PM Eastern Standard Time, Naomi writes:

Glad you reminded me this months issue of Shape has the

same a 12 week competition...with fitness/food program..no

supps though....but mega prizes.

It sort of annoyed me to see them rip off the BFL!

So I agree it is terrible but it is capatilism right?

Naomi

When I first started to get into BFL, I searched the web endlessly for info on Bill , EAS, etc. Oh, the nasty, downright vituperative stuff there is about Bill, how he sold out with the contest, he's only in it for the money, etc. etc. But, the bottom line is this (IMNSHO): he really got people off the couch and into the gym, he got people motivated. Yes, he's in it for the money, too...money for Make A Wish Foundation, and money for EAS.

Its his business! Could we expect any less? I guess I could get off on a rant here because it hits one of my buttons: working for free. I work in medicine everyday, and people always want opinions and treatment for free.

Sure, I love what I do, and I don't mind offering my opinion. If I could do it for nothing, I would! But I can't. I need to support myself. I don't make millions, just enough to pay my school loans <groan> and support my computer habit. When people talk about selling out, the persons talking are honestly jealous, if they'd only admit it.

As for the rest of the contests, if they get people going, why not? We all make a buck somehow - we choose our own somehows - and make judgements about other people's somehows. Whatever works, as long as they leave the innocents out of it.

a

"We want rights. The flour-merchant, the house-builder, and the postman charge us no less on account of our sex; but when we endeavor to earn money to pay all these, then, indeed, we find the difference." - Lucy Stone

[Guest guest]

I just picked up Women's Fitness International magazine (first time, didn't

realize what it was) and found that it has what appears to be something of a BFL

ripoff called Body By Choice. Its a 12 week program where you can win cash and

prizes. Its for women only though, and their four-week starter package consists

of a 30 day supply of perfect fuel (sorta like myoplex lite), 30 day supply of

burn xs (a thermogenic), 30 day supply of carb guard (not sure what it is

exactly), 131 page book " working woman's workout " , 2 hour-long videos " strength

and grace " and " fat eliminator " and a 40 minute interview with Dr. LaValle.

This is run by Minna Lessig, and costs a mere $149.

http://www.bodybychoice.com

Any thoughts?

Tina

[Guest guest]

Tina,

Glad you reminded me this months issue of Shape has the

same a 12 week competition...with fitness/food program..no

supps though....but mega prizes.

It sort of annoyed me to see them rip off the BFL!

So I agree it is terrible but it is capatilism right?

Naomi

--- Cassie <tandl2000@...> wrote:

> I just picked up Women's Fitness International magazine

> (first time, didn't realize what it was) and found that

> it has what appears to be something of a BFL ripoff

> called Body By Choice. Its a 12 week program where you

> can win cash and prizes. Its for women only though, and

> their four-week starter package consists of a 30 day

> supply of perfect fuel (sorta like myoplex lite), 30 day

> supply of burn xs (a thermogenic), 30 day supply of carb

> guard (not sure what it is exactly), 131 page book

> " working woman's workout " , 2 hour-long videos " strength

> and grace " and " fat eliminator " and a 40 minute interview

> with Dr. LaValle. This is run by Minna Lessig, and costs

> a mere $149.

>

> http://www.bodybychoice.com

>

> Any thoughts?

>

> Tina

>

>

__________________________________________________

[Guest guest]

Geeeeee I wonder what other aspects else they are "similar" in.......*snort*

~~

Nutz, i cant get the website you listed to come up

You know what they say about imitation being the sincerest form of flattery, eh? On the Body By Choice program, 50% of your score is from your physical changes and 50% from your essay, or "how well you express how you have transformed on the inside after completing the Inner Transformation Questionnaire!" <giggle>Tina

[Guest guest]

Just found the rules & regulations for it. " You can follow whatever type of

training and nutrition program you want during the course of this Challenge. If

you don't know where to start, we recommend the program in the book " Minna's

Working Woman's Workout. "

ROFL

Tina

*********** REPLY SEPARATOR ***********

On 3/7/01 at 1:26 PM wrote:

>Geeeeee I wonder what other aspects else they are " similar " in.......*snort*

>~~

>Nutz, i cant get the website you listed to come up

>-------------------------------------------------------------------------------\

-

>

>You know what they say about imitation being the sincerest form of flattery,

eh? On the Body By Choice program, 50% of your score is from your physical

changes and 50% from your essay, or " how well you express how you have

transformed on the inside after completing the Inner Transformation

Questionnaire! " <giggle>

>

>Tina

>-------------------------------------------------------------------------------\

-

[Guest guest]

Just found the rules & regulations for it. " You can follow whatever type of

training and nutrition program you want during the course of this Challenge. If

you don't know where to start, we recommend the program in the book " Minna's

Working Woman's Workout. "

ROFL

Tina

*********** REPLY SEPARATOR ***********

On 3/7/01 at 1:26 PM wrote:

>Geeeeee I wonder what other aspects else they are " similar " in.......*snort*

>~~

>Nutz, i cant get the website you listed to come up

>-------------------------------------------------------------------------------\

-

>

>You know what they say about imitation being the sincerest form of flattery,

eh? On the Body By Choice program, 50% of your score is from your physical

changes and 50% from your essay, or " how well you express how you have

transformed on the inside after completing the Inner Transformation

Questionnaire! " <giggle>

>

>Tina

>-------------------------------------------------------------------------------\

-

[Guest guest]

LOL Tina!

Im a little irritated that they dont show nutritional tables for their supplements....I was just curious about this "perfect fuel".... and wondered what the protein/carb/sugar/calorie contents were...... kinda irritating in a way .....I wonder, since they are targeting women, does this mean that they dont think women should know whats in that stuff their peddling? *grumble*

~C~

Just found the rules & regulations for it. "You can follow whatever type of training and nutrition program you want during the course of this Challenge. If you don't know where to start, we recommend the program in the book "Minna's Working Woman's Workout."ROFLTina

[Guest guest]

LOL Tina!

Im a little irritated that they dont show nutritional tables for their supplements....I was just curious about this "perfect fuel".... and wondered what the protein/carb/sugar/calorie contents were...... kinda irritating in a way .....I wonder, since they are targeting women, does this mean that they dont think women should know whats in that stuff their peddling? *grumble*

~C~

Just found the rules & regulations for it. "You can follow whatever type of training and nutrition program you want during the course of this Challenge. If you don't know where to start, we recommend the program in the book "Minna's Working Woman's Workout."ROFLTina

[Guest guest]

I am not sure Bill invented any aspect of the BFL program. The unique thing

is how he put it all to gether. Weight lifting and bodybuilding and

aerobics training and nutrition have been around for a long long time. Bill

brought together a lot of things from the public domain and put it together

with a process for building leverage to create and sustain a change. You

could probably combine Tony Robbins, Covey, the ABCDE diet, and

Clarence Bass and get a great program.. Bill took what he researched, added

what he learned over the last 15 years, added what he learned from the 97

challenge, added what he knew from interviewing many great experts and put

out a balanced, effective program that addressed what was needed for

success. And then with his exceptional entrepreneurial skills, he sold it.

All to our benefit. Imitation is the ultimate expression of flattery. I

went through a six week program through 24 hour fitness that was similar in

most respects except for the portion rule. There are a ton of programs that

include nutrition, resistance, aerobics and supplements. Lee Labrada has an

excellent one. I think it is great that there is so much focus on health

and that resistance training is on the rise. that means more competition,

more gyms, lower rates, more supplements, lower prices, better products,

more gym equipment, better quality for lower prices, more fit people, more

businesses catering to fitness activities, more parks and walking, running,

biking paths. Less health care costs, less depression and long term

illnesses, more smiles, more energy. Sorry, got carried away. Bill is an

exceptional man. He is a large catalyst for positive change. not the only

one. I'd love to meet him some day as he is one of my heroes. An

inspiration. He's always looking for what works and open to new ideas. He

has no time for naysayers and keeps his chin up and faces the sun. A very

giving person who is pretty well rounded in my book. Perfect? No. Human?

Yes, and a great example of humanity. Just a thought. :=)

[Guest guest]

Thanks for your insight Kit I stand corrected Although...... Im still grumpy about the "keep-them-stupid" way their supplements are marketed!! LOL Okay, Ill shoosh....LOL

Im PERFECTLY happy with BFL and Ill be one of the staunchest supporters to the end!! (whatever that means.....got kinda carried away....LOL)~~

I am not sure Bill invented any aspect of the BFL program. The unique thingis how he put it all to gether. Weight lifting and bodybuilding andaerobics training and nutrition have been around for a long long time. Billbrought together a lot of things from the public domain and put it togetherwith a process for building leverage to create and sustain a change. Youcould probably combine Tony Robbins, Covey, the ABCDE diet, andClarence Bass and get a great program.. Bill took what he researched, addedwhat he learned over the last 15 years, added what he learned from the 97challenge, added what he knew from interviewing many great experts and putout a balanced, effective program that addressed what was needed forsuccess. And then with his exceptional entrepreneurial skills, he sold it.All to our benefit. Imitation is the ultimate expression of flattery. Iwent through a six week program through 24 hour fitness that was similar inmost respects except for the portion rule. There are a ton of programs thatinclude nutrition, resistance, aerobics and supplements. Lee Labrada has anexcellent one. I think it is great that there is so much focus on healthand that resistance training is on the rise. that means more competition,more gyms, lower rates, more supplements, lower prices, better products,more gym equipment, better quality for lower prices, more fit people, morebusinesses catering to fitness activities, more parks and walking, running,biking paths. Less health care costs, less depression and long termillnesses, more smiles, more energy. Sorry, got carried away. Bill is anexceptional man. He is a large catalyst for positive change. not the onlyone. I'd love to meet him some day as he is one of my heroes. Aninspiration. He's always looking for what works and open to new ideas. Hehas no time for naysayers and keeps his chin up and faces the sun. A verygiving person who is pretty well rounded in my book. Perfect? No. Human?Yes, and a great example of humanity. Just a thought. :=)

[Guest guest]

I agree with Kit, but I still think that this program is a BFL ripoff. Body For

Life vs. Body By Choice. The BFL Challenge vs. BBC Challenge (its called a

challenge too). How the scores are decided (50% physique & 50%

essay/questionnaire). Both require before and after pictures. Both have a

Grand Master Champion and Grand Champion awards, although BFL pays more and

awards more people.

Too many similarities, IMO.

Tina

*********** REPLY SEPARATOR ***********

On 3/7/01 at 2:04 PM wrote:

>Thanks for your insight Kit I stand corrected Although...... Im still

grumpy about the " keep-them-stupid " way their supplements are marketed!! LOL

Okay, Ill shoosh....LOL

>Im PERFECTLY happy with BFL and Ill be one of the staunchest supporters to the

end!! (whatever that means.....got kinda carried away....LOL)

>~~

>-------------------------------------------------------------------------------\

-

>

>I am not sure Bill invented any aspect of the BFL program. The unique thing

>is how he put it all to gether.

[Guest guest]

Its not on their website, but in the magazine (which is nothing more than a very

large advertisement for their crap, I'm rather disappointed in it), there's a

full page ad for the perfect fuel that has a comparison to Myoplex Lite and

Ultra SlimFast. Says PF has 155 calories, 20g protein, no added sugar or

aspartame, 13g carb. Guess its not all that surprising that this magazine is a

scam for the company disguised as a fitness mag since the Editor-In-Chief is

Minna Lessig herself. LOL

Tina

*********** REPLY SEPARATOR ***********

On 3/7/01 at 1:54 PM wrote:

>LOL Tina!

>Im a little irritated that they dont show nutritional tables for their

supplements....I was just curious about this " perfect fuel " .... and wondered

what the protein/carb/sugar/calorie contents were...... kinda irritating in a

way .....I wonder, since they are targeting women, does this mean that they dont

think women should know whats in that stuff their peddling? *grumble*

>~C~

>-------------------------------------------------------------------------------\

-

>

>Just found the rules & regulations for it. " You can follow whatever type of

training and nutrition program you want during the course of this Challenge. If

you don't know where to start, we recommend the program in the book " Minna's

Working Woman's Workout. "

>

>ROFL

>

>Tina

>-------------------------------------------------------------------------------\

-

[Guest guest]

Hi Tina! Hi Everyone!

I thought Kit had many worthwhile things to say on this topic. I

want to add that the contest Tina mentioned isn't the first

imitation that's popped up - there have been many, many others -

in gyms, in magazines...you name it. And I agree with those who

say that imitation is the sincerest form of flattery. :-)

Although I agree with Kit that the various elements in BFL existed

before Bill wrote his book, and while I also agree that

one of Bill's biggest contributions was the way he put everything

together into a single, straightforward program - I also think that

BFL represents a terrific, creative achievement.

Creativity is an interesting thing. It doesn't really involve the

making of something out of nothing.

Consider, for example, Mozart - arguably the most naturally gifted

composer in world history, and certainly a prolific one. Even he

did not invent the notes or the instruments with which he

composed. His compositions involved new combinations of

previously existing elements.

With his book, Bill didn't invent 6 meals per day; weight training

and cardio; training to muscle failure or goal setting. But he did

sift through, combine and concisely articulate a wealth of

knowledge in a form that people could digest and implement. He

had to exercise good wisdom, patience, judgment - and

awareness of the obstacles so many face when trying to get fit -

to create his particular program. Some say that " knowledge is

power. " But I say that " only applied knowledge is power. " And

Bill's book offers a remarkable program for helping people cross

that abyss.

A friend of mine is an inventor with multiple, registered patents.

He's told me that one of the funny things about the process of

getting something patented, is that the U.S. Patent Office will

generally start by challenging that a submitted invention is

actually " an obvious extension " of something that's already been

patented - and therefore not something worthy of a new patent.

Of course, whether the new element is " obvious " is debatable.

Which is why an inventor's next step often involves the services

of a patent attorney, who will make a case that the new invention

is significantly new.

Though BFL is not an invention that can be patented, I do think

that in its sum it exhibits laudable originality. And although EAS

and Bill won't have grounds to take legal action against

the imitators, I sympathize with Tina's remarks that some of

them are just too similar! :-) I know my wife and I have shared

some good laughs, noticing, as Tina has, how similar some of

that language is!

Energetically,

> I just picked up Women's Fitness International magazine (first

time, didn't realize what it was) and found that it has what

appears to be something of a BFL ripoff called Body By Choice.

Its a 12 week program

>

> Any thoughts?

>

> Tina

[Guest guest]

I have no problem with people wanting to make a buck or two. Trust me, you don't

know how many arguments I've had with people about ol' Bill Gates and his money,

where most people seem to think he's the devil incarnate for making as much

money as he has. More power to him, I say. What bothers me is this magazine

itself. It passes itself off as a fitness magazine, when its not. Its just one

really large advertisement for Minna and her products. There's very little

content in it that's informational for people looking for fitness tips. By

contrast, Muscle & Fitness Hers is owned and published by Joe Weider, but I find

it filled with informative articles and helpful tips on working out and

bodybuilding. Guess which one is getting my money via a regular subscription.

Tina

> When people talk about selling out, the persons talking are

>honestly jealous, if they'd only admit it.

>As for the rest of the contests, if they get people going, why not? We all

>make a buck somehow - we choose our own somehows - and make judgements about

>other people's somehows. Whatever works, as long as they leave the innocents

>out of it.

>a

> " We want rights. The flour-merchant, the house-builder, and the postman

>charge us no less on account of our sex; but when we endeavor to earn money

>to pay all these, then, indeed, we find the difference. " - Lucy Stone

[Guest guest]

I was being a bit literal on the ripped off piece. I think no cause of

action exists. I think the value of the program is how it fits together as

a system, how robust it is for fitting each individual's situation and for

addressing changing goals as you develop, and perhaps most importantly the

building the foundation for success and the goal setting to keep you moving

forward. A huge benefit we get from Bill's work is that the program was

developed from literally tens of thousands of actual case studies. How many

programs have that kind of data based developmental start? Bill brought all

the best in a system to the public. To Joe and Jane average person. He

designed it to help the greatest number of people take advantage of what he

felt were the best available technologies in a package and conquer the

obstacles that were common to most of us. Yes it makes sense from a

business standpoint. But the business is even more helped by a program that

is effective because then you have long term customers. So, no flash in the

pan. Instead real substance with helpful tools for long term success.

ly I love the high point technique. It helps me to advance quicker

psychologically. I keep proving that I can advance and I've cemented in the

success of the process. It is exceptional for cardio and very effective in

the resistance. Well anyway, I did not mean to imply Bill was not creative

and in spite of enjoying Mozart, I undoubtedly enjoy the results of Bill's

masterpiece more. Nothing like having a new lease on life and lots of proud

ownership to sustain your journey! Kit

[Guest guest]

Hi, Tina!

You''re really preparing to have a huge " comeback " after feeling so badly!

Withyour new gloves, soy protein powder, and free day coming up again in the

next 4-5 days, you should be good to go tomorrow. I thought about you today,

actually , because I bought some chocolate soy protein in lieu of my usual

whey protein...I'll have to admit,the taste is quite different! I got the

Twin Labs Soy Protein, which says I can use it to bake as well. Those would

be some interesting baked goods! Yikes.

Keep it up, Tina, you're on your way!

:-)

[Guest guest]

Tina, you took the words right out of my mouth! I think people are

jealous of someone elses success. If Bill wasn't doing this BFL and

making money with it, I'd still be 18 lbs. heavier than I was 5 weeks

ago!! Some have lost hundres! What a program.

Thanks and hats off to Bill !!

Ricky

> I have no problem with people wanting to make a buck or two. Trust

me, you don't know how many arguments I've had with people about ol'

Bill Gates and his money, where most people seem to think he's the

devil incarnate for making as much money as he has. More power to

him, I say. What bothers me is this magazine itself. It passes

itself off as a fitness magazine, when its not. Its just one really

large advertisement for Minna and her products. There's very little

content in it that's informational for people looking for fitness

tips. By contrast, Muscle & Fitness Hers is owned and published by

Joe Weider, but I find it filled with informative articles and

helpful tips on working out and bodybuilding. Guess which one is

getting my money via a regular subscription.

>

> Tina

>

> > When people talk about selling out, the persons talking are

> >honestly jealous, if they'd only admit it.

> >As for the rest of the contests, if they get people going, why

not? We all

> >make a buck somehow - we choose our own somehows - and make

judgements about

> >other people's somehows. Whatever works, as long as they leave

the innocents

> >out of it.

> >a

> > " We want rights. The flour-merchant, the house-builder, and the

postman

> >charge us no less on account of our sex; but when we endeavor to

earn money

> >to pay all these, then, indeed, we find the difference. " - Lucy

Stone

[Guest guest]

Thanks . Doing a bit better today, still a tad ill from the overtraining and

malnutrition but will hopefully be back to normal tomorrow. Still muscle achy

today so I couldn't hit the gym. Biscuits and gravy were great, what I was

able to eat of them, that is. My little one decided he liked them too, so I had

to share. I don't know whether it was being sick or just getting used to

eating good foods, but I tried eating some Ruffles Flavor Rush chips and they

just didnt taste right. Couldn't enjoy them. <sigh> My shipment of soy protein

came in today, big container from Naturade which is low carb, so hopefully I'll

get completely back on track tomorrow. Also picked up a pair of weight training

gloves today. Just started doing seated cable rows on my last UBW and it

seriously hurt my hands. Figured I'd better get some gloves before I rub the

skin off completely.

Thanks for asking.

Tina

*********** REPLY SEPARATOR ***********

On 3/7/01 at 4:07 PM lgilbert2004@... wrote:

>Hey, Tina-how are you doing this week? I know you were a little discouraged

>last week, are things feeling a little easier for you this week? Are you

>getting over that yucky illness? How were your biscuits and gravy this

>morning on your free day, I'm sure that helped you feel a little better! :-)

> Keep up the hard work,

>

[Guest guest]

Hey Mark!

Gritty and chalky for sure! Let me know if you come up with any innovative

ideas!

:-)