Guest guest Posted October 9, 2009 Report Share Posted October 9, 2009 Hmm...that is a possible lifetime research for me than, smile, Jahjet ________________________________ From: zoe w <mtnwalker2b@...> kombucha tea Sent: Fri, October 9, 2009 7:14:59 PM Subject: OT The Kefirs OK, since we are getting nitpicky, will add my 2 cents here Water kefir and Milk Kefir are two entirely different things, however you can take your milk kefir grains and produce a watery kefir drink with them. Once you do this the grains will not grow, nor can they be used in milk ever again. They will however continue to work in water or juice for a very long time. Water kefir grains, sometimes called Tibicos or Sugar kefir Grains ( SKG) are very finicky and unforgiving, but when happy will produce another lovely pro-biotic drink for you. When certain ingredients are added it will create something like a Ginger-beer. I've never heard of these grains being used successfully in milk, but who knows. Both Milk and Water kefir grains have a tendency to grow when happy. the growth is not rapid nor as significant as our Scoby's but will still allow for sharing with others, or your own experiments. Of all the cultures currently available, this includes the aforementioned as well as CSY The Water Kefir is the most finicky, most time consuming, and the most likely to not perform the way you would like. I finally gave up on them. But when done properly the drink they produce is my favorite. Over fermented Water Kefir " pickles " the grains rendering them useless. zoe zoe w wrote: > Copy/pasted below > > Among tibicos (water kefir) and ginger beer plant people it's recommended to add baking soda and coral calcium or ground sterilized eggshell to increase the mineral content. 1/8 tsp each per quart of water, I believe. > > - . > > > > > Jahjet wrote: > >> hello, well I do remember one of the ingredient he used said was baking powder, >> plus the eggshells/ and coral calcium, plus maybe I am missing the first ingredient, do you happen to have text? I was surprised to have learned that now I would like to grog that. To make water keifer ? Peace OM Jahjet , oh a heads up for Leif ! Smile >> >> _ >> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 9, 2009 Report Share Posted October 9, 2009 I have to disagree about tibicos grains being more finicky than SCOBYs, at least as an absolute.....and in my experience. The way mine reproduce, I think they are outright randy LOL. They can double in less than a week. Don't know if it's the grains I have, what I do to them, or cosmic forces at work, but those suckers are robust for me! But I have read of many others with similar experiences to yours Zoe, so don't feel bad. Just this evening I was researching continuous brew of tibicos so your post was timely. I never heard of it before, but someone is selling pricey such systems on Etsy. There's really not much out there, but I found a post by Dom on a public board that said it could be done without saying how. I love the stuff but as it cools, I will drink much less and am trying to see how I can keep it going to keep the grains alive and healthy but not waste sugar and fruit. So far I have found that I can brew a batch, leave just enough in the container to cover the grains, and let that sit a day or two before draining and starting a new brew. The grains don't seem to mind and the flavor isn't affected, so I might just keep at that through the winter. And though I first learned of them as " water kefir, " I am trying to train myself to call them tibicos precisely for the reason you state: the milk and water kefir are indeed completely different cultures. Calling them both kefir is misleading I think.... > > OK, since we are getting nitpicky, will add my 2 cents here > Water kefir and Milk Kefir are two entirely different things, > however you can take your milk kefir grains and produce a watery > kefir drink with them. Once you do this the grains will not grow, > nor can they be used in milk ever again. They will however continue > to work in water or juice for a very long time. > > Water kefir grains, sometimes called Tibicos or Sugar kefir Grains > ( SKG) are very finicky and unforgiving, but when happy will > produce another lovely pro-biotic drink for you. When certain > ingredients are added it will create something like a Ginger-beer. > I've never heard of these grains being used successfully in milk, but > who knows. > > Both Milk and Water kefir grains have a tendency to grow when happy. > the growth is not rapid nor as significant as our Scoby's but will > still allow for sharing with others, or your own experiments. > > Of all the cultures currently available, this includes the > aforementioned as well as CSY The Water Kefir is the most > finicky, most time consuming, and the most likely to not perform the > way you would like. I finally gave up on them. But when done > properly the drink they produce is my favorite. Over fermented > Water Kefir " pickles " the grains rendering them useless. > > zoe Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 9, 2009 Report Share Posted October 9, 2009 Yes, it very well could be. For me it reached a point where I had become a " slave " to all my cultures and it ceased to be fun because I could have no other life- so I had to choose and Kombucha won. Recently re-added a very small amt of milk kefir as well. but since we now have 3 CB tanks brewing to keep up with I will not be reconstituting my water grains anytime soon. I do have a stash of dried ones any time I choose. The last of my CSY got sent to a friend before I left S.D. area. At one point I began making greek yogurt too, but mine didn't always turn out and its a real pain, so since then I just buy the stuff. LOL Fruit flies can be a real nuisance. zoe Jahjet wrote: > Hmm...that is a possible lifetime research for me than, smile, Jahjet > > > > > ________________________________ > From: zoe w <mtnwalker2b@...> > kombucha tea > Sent: Fri, October 9, 2009 7:14:59 PM > Subject: OT The Kefirs > > > OK, since we are getting nitpicky, will add my 2 cents here > Water kefir and Milk Kefir are two entirely different things, > however you can take your milk kefir grains and produce a watery > kefir drink with them. Once you do this the grains will not grow, > nor can they be used in milk ever again. They will however continue > to work in water or juice for a very long time. > > Water kefir grains, sometimes called Tibicos or Sugar kefir Grains > ( SKG) are very finicky and unforgiving, but when happy will > produce another lovely pro-biotic drink for you. When certain > ingredients are added it will create something like a Ginger-beer. > I've never heard of these grains being used successfully in milk, but > who knows. > > Both Milk and Water kefir grains have a tendency to grow when happy. > the growth is not rapid nor as significant as our Scoby's but will > still allow for sharing with others, or your own experiments. > > Of all the cultures currently available, this includes the > aforementioned as well as CSY The Water Kefir is the most > finicky, most time consuming, and the most likely to not perform the > way you would like. I finally gave up on them. But when done > properly the drink they produce is my favorite. Over fermented > Water Kefir " pickles " the grains rendering them useless. > > zoe > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 9, 2009 Report Share Posted October 9, 2009 , How long have you had your tibicos? I had some that were quite robust and performed just as you describe but after about a year, things changed. Perhaps it was the climate, it gets very hot in SoCal. but they just were never the same after that. When I first got them, I had a gallon jar filled with the extras rather quickly, but in the end I was lucky to keep them alive. If you can give me some sure fire pointers I just might drag a few out of hibernation and see what happens. Huggs zoe goodbead40@... wrote: > I have to disagree about tibicos grains being more finicky than SCOBYs, at least as an absolute.....and in my experience. The way mine reproduce, I think they are outright randy LOL. They can double in less than a week. Don't know if it's the grains I have, what I do to them, or cosmic forces at work, but those suckers are robust for me! But I have read of many others with similar experiences to yours Zoe, so don't feel bad. Just this evening I was researching continuous brew of tibicos so your post was timely. I never heard of it before, but someone is selling pricey such systems on Etsy. There's really not much out there, but I found a post by Dom on a public board that said it could be done without saying how. I love the stuff but as it cools, I will drink much less and am trying to see how I can keep it going to keep the grains alive and healthy but not waste sugar and fruit. So far I have found that I can brew a batch, leave just enough in the container to cover the grains, and let that sit a day or two before draining and starting a new brew. The grains don't seem to mind and the flavor isn't affected, so I might just keep at that through the winter. And though I first learned of them as " water kefir, " I am trying to train myself to call them tibicos precisely for the reason you state: the milk and water kefir are indeed completely different cultures. Calling them both kefir is misleading I think.... > > > > >> OK, since we are getting nitpicky, will add my 2 cents here >> Water kefir and Milk Kefir are two entirely different things, >> however you can take your milk kefir grains and produce a watery >> kefir drink with them. Once you do this the grains will not grow, >> nor can they be used in milk ever again. They will however continue >> to work in water or juice for a very long time. >> >> Water kefir grains, sometimes called Tibicos or Sugar kefir Grains >> ( SKG) are very finicky and unforgiving, but when happy will >> produce another lovely pro-biotic drink for you. When certain >> ingredients are added it will create something like a Ginger-beer. >> I've never heard of these grains being used successfully in milk, but >> who knows. >> >> Both Milk and Water kefir grains have a tendency to grow when happy. >> the growth is not rapid nor as significant as our Scoby's but will >> still allow for sharing with others, or your own experiments. >> >> Of all the cultures currently available, this includes the >> aforementioned as well as CSY The Water Kefir is the most >> finicky, most time consuming, and the most likely to not perform the >> way you would like. I finally gave up on them. But when done >> properly the drink they produce is my favorite. Over fermented >> Water Kefir " pickles " the grains rendering them useless. >> >> zoe >> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 10, 2009 Report Share Posted October 10, 2009 By the Great Lord Harry!! I have what I've always believed to be " Ginger Beer Plant " which seems indistinguishable from water Kefir. My Milk Kefir has grown four-fold in a couple of weeks. My GBP, on the other hand, has barely progressed, I halved it with some-one (leaving me with about 25gm) several weeks ago. It has now managed to struggle up to a scant 30gm. . (UK) ________________________________ From: " goodbead40 Sent: Saturday, 10 October, 2009 3:37: I have to disagree about tibicos grains being more finicky than SCOBYs, at least as an absolute.....and in my experience. The way mine reproduce, I think they are outright randy LOL. They can double in less than a week. Don't know if it's the grains I have, what I do to them, or cosmic forces at work, but those suckers are robust for me! But I have read of many others with similar experiences to yours Zoe, so don't feel bad. Just this evening I was researching continuous brew of tibicos so your post was timely. I never heard of it before, but someone is selling pricey such systems on Etsy. There's really not much out there, but I found a post by Dom on a public board that said it could be done without saying how. I love the stuff but as it cools, I will drink much less and am trying to see how I can keep it going to keep the grains alive and healthy but not waste sugar and fruit. So far I have found that I can brew a batch, leave just enough in the container to cover the grains, and let that sit a day or two before draining and starting a new brew. The grains don't seem to mind and the flavor isn't affected, so I might just keep at that through the winter. And though I first learned of them as " water kefir, " I am trying to train myself to call them tibicos precisely for the reason you state: the milk and water kefir are indeed completely different cultures. Calling them both kefir is misleading I think.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 10, 2009 Report Share Posted October 10, 2009 I must apologize for mentioning tibicos (water kefir) and Ginger Beer Plant. Someone mentioned using a tiny bit of salt in the kombucha water, which prompted me to mention how tibicos and Ginger Beer Plant brewers augment *their* water for the use of *those* two cultures. While I *think* the same could be done for kombucha, I don't know for certain... so if one wanted to try adding stuff to their kombucha water, they should do it as a trial separate from their main batch. Just in case! Augmenting kombucha's water definitely isn't necessary for the culture, it seems to work perfectly well whether you use fancy spring water, distilled water, reverse osmosis water, or de-chlorinated tap water. , I have both tibicos and Ginger Beer Plant. There's quite a difference between the two, at least in size of the grains; my Ginger Beer Plant grains are about 1/10th the size of my tibicos grains. I haven't had them long enough to say whether they behave differently, or whether there's a difference in the taste of the drinks produced. For anyone who's interested in exploring kefir and tibicos ( " water kefir " ), the very best resource is: http://users.sa.chariot.net.au/~dna/kefirpage.html - . > > By the Great Lord Harry!! > I have what I've always believed to be " Ginger Beer Plant " which seems indistinguishable from water Kefir. > > My Milk Kefir has grown four-fold in a couple of weeks. > My GBP, on the other hand, has barely progressed, I halved it with some-one (leaving me with about 25gm) several weeks ago. > It has now managed to struggle up to a scant 30gm. > > . > (UK) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 10, 2009 Report Share Posted October 10, 2009 I must apologize for mentioning tibicos (water kefir) and Ginger Beer Plant. Someone mentioned using a tiny bit of salt in the kombucha water, which prompted me to mention how tibicos and Ginger Beer Plant brewers augment *their* water for the use of *those* two cultures. While I *think* the same could be done for kombucha, I don't know for certain... so if one wanted to try adding stuff to their kombucha water, they should do it as a trial separate from their main batch. Just in case! Augmenting kombucha's water definitely isn't necessary for the culture, it seems to work perfectly well whether you use fancy spring water, distilled water, reverse osmosis water, or de-chlorinated tap water. , I have both tibicos and Ginger Beer Plant. There's quite a difference between the two, at least in size of the grains; my Ginger Beer Plant grains are about 1/10th the size of my tibicos grains. I haven't had them long enough to say whether they behave differently, or whether there's a difference in the taste of the drinks produced. For anyone who's interested in exploring kefir and tibicos ( " water kefir " ), the very best resource is: http://users.sa.chariot.net.au/~dna/kefirpage.html - . > > By the Great Lord Harry!! > I have what I've always believed to be " Ginger Beer Plant " which seems indistinguishable from water Kefir. > > My Milk Kefir has grown four-fold in a couple of weeks. > My GBP, on the other hand, has barely progressed, I halved it with some-one (leaving me with about 25gm) several weeks ago. > It has now managed to struggle up to a scant 30gm. > > . > (UK) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 10, 2009 Report Share Posted October 10, 2009 Cheers Bloke, up to now there always seems to have been a collective (?) doubt as to whether GBP and W/Kefir were one-and-the-same. I might just try a wee touch of salt to see if it tickles up the GBP a bit. . (UK) ________________________________ From: Sent: Saturday, 10 October, 2009 19:37:38 I must apologize for mentioning tibicos (water kefir) and Ginger Beer Plant. Someone mentioned using a tiny bit of salt in the kombucha water, which prompted me to mention how tibicos and Ginger Beer Plant brewers augment *their* water for the use of *those* two cultures. While I *think* the same could be done for kombucha, I don't know for certain... so if one wanted to try adding stuff to their kombucha water, they should do it as a trial separate from their main batch. Just in case! Augmenting kombucha's water definitely isn't necessary for the culture, it seems to work perfectly well whether you use fancy spring water, distilled water, reverse osmosis water, or de-chlorinated tap water. , I have both tibicos and Ginger Beer Plant. There's quite a difference between the two, at least in size of the grains; my Ginger Beer Plant grains are about 1/10th the size of my tibicos grains. I haven't had them long enough to say whether they behave differently, or whether there's a difference in the taste of the drinks produced. For anyone who's interested in exploring kefir and tibicos ( " water kefir " ), the very best resource is: http://users.sa.chariot.net.au/~dna/kefirpage.html - . >THINGS Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 10, 2009 Report Share Posted October 10, 2009 Cheers Bloke, up to now there always seems to have been a collective (?) doubt as to whether GBP and W/Kefir were one-and-the-same. I might just try a wee touch of salt to see if it tickles up the GBP a bit. . (UK) ________________________________ From: Sent: Saturday, 10 October, 2009 19:37:38 I must apologize for mentioning tibicos (water kefir) and Ginger Beer Plant. Someone mentioned using a tiny bit of salt in the kombucha water, which prompted me to mention how tibicos and Ginger Beer Plant brewers augment *their* water for the use of *those* two cultures. While I *think* the same could be done for kombucha, I don't know for certain... so if one wanted to try adding stuff to their kombucha water, they should do it as a trial separate from their main batch. Just in case! Augmenting kombucha's water definitely isn't necessary for the culture, it seems to work perfectly well whether you use fancy spring water, distilled water, reverse osmosis water, or de-chlorinated tap water. , I have both tibicos and Ginger Beer Plant. There's quite a difference between the two, at least in size of the grains; my Ginger Beer Plant grains are about 1/10th the size of my tibicos grains. I haven't had them long enough to say whether they behave differently, or whether there's a difference in the taste of the drinks produced. For anyone who's interested in exploring kefir and tibicos ( " water kefir " ), the very best resource is: http://users.sa.chariot.net.au/~dna/kefirpage.html - . >THINGS Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 10, 2009 Report Share Posted October 10, 2009 Actually GBP is nothing more than Tibicos that have been trained to do a specific task. Not all tibicos are the same some are small, some are quite large. If you do your search on GBP you will find the recipe to train your grains. So technically they are not the same, but they had the same parents. zoe Kane wrote: > Cheers Bloke, up to now there always seems to have been a collective (?) doubt as to whether GBP and W/Kefir were one-and-the-same. > I might just try a wee touch of salt to see if it tickles up the GBP a bit. > > . > (UK) > > > > ________________________________ > From: > Sent: Saturday, 10 October, 2009 19:37:38 > > I must apologize for mentioning tibicos (water kefir) and Ginger Beer Plant. Someone mentioned using a tiny bit of salt in the kombucha water, which prompted me to mention how tibicos and Ginger Beer Plant brewers augment *their* water for the use of *those* two cultures. > > While I *think* the same could be done for kombucha, I don't know for certain... so if one wanted to try adding stuff to their kombucha water, they should do it as a trial separate from their main batch. Just in case! Augmenting kombucha's water definitely isn't necessary for the culture, it seems to work perfectly well whether you use fancy spring water, distilled water, reverse osmosis water, or de-chlorinated tap water. > > , I have both tibicos and Ginger Beer Plant. There's quite a difference between the two, at least in size of the grains; my Ginger Beer Plant grains are about 1/10th the size of my tibicos grains. I haven't had them long enough to say whether they behave differently, or whether there's a difference in the taste of the drinks produced. > > For anyone who's interested in exploring kefir and tibicos ( " water kefir " ), the very best resource is: > http://users.sa.chariot.net.au/~dna/kefirpage.html > > - . > > > >> THINGS >> > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 10, 2009 Report Share Posted October 10, 2009 I assure you that ginger beer plant and water kefir are rather distinct cultures. I have both and they smell, taste, and behave differently. Look similar but that's about it. My milk kefir grows slow, but I am forced to use commercial pasteurized so that may be part of it. Raw milk sounds like it feeds the grains best. That's my dream, to have raw milk. And a cow. But they don't work well in the city here LOL, not even the miniatures. No one has an acre of land, little alone an acre to spare. > > By the Great Lord Harry!! > I have what I've always believed to be " Ginger Beer Plant " which seems indistinguishable from water Kefir. > > My Milk Kefir has grown four-fold in a couple of weeks. > My GBP, on the other hand, has barely progressed, I halved it with some-one (leaving me with about 25gm) several weeks ago. > It has now managed to struggle up to a scant 30gm. > > . > (UK) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 10, 2009 Report Share Posted October 10, 2009 I assure you that ginger beer plant and water kefir are rather distinct cultures. I have both and they smell, taste, and behave differently. Look similar but that's about it. My milk kefir grows slow, but I am forced to use commercial pasteurized so that may be part of it. Raw milk sounds like it feeds the grains best. That's my dream, to have raw milk. And a cow. But they don't work well in the city here LOL, not even the miniatures. No one has an acre of land, little alone an acre to spare. > > By the Great Lord Harry!! > I have what I've always believed to be " Ginger Beer Plant " which seems indistinguishable from water Kefir. > > My Milk Kefir has grown four-fold in a couple of weeks. > My GBP, on the other hand, has barely progressed, I halved it with some-one (leaving me with about 25gm) several weeks ago. > It has now managed to struggle up to a scant 30gm. > > . > (UK) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 10, 2009 Report Share Posted October 10, 2009 Got my tibicos grains around father's day of this year, so only a few months. We shall see what happens. If they die eventually, oh well. I'd miss them but I'm not sure I'd bother to replace them, with the KT and all. I actually thought I killed them about a week ago, left them unfed too long. The first 24 hour batch seemed weak so I let it set another 24. It tasted like water sitting with sugar and fruit LOL. But just for the heck of it I refreshed all and that 2nd batch flourished, tasted great and since then the grains are growing nutso. But they have always done well for me. Not sure I do anything special, most of the time I use dried unsulphured apricots and fresh ginger root slices. Every 4th or 5th batch I use either muscovado or similar whole sugar. I like the flavor and am too lazy to do the whole calcium or eggshell thing LOL. I did try drying some once but they didn't reconstitute. > > , > How long have you had your tibicos? I had some that were quite > robust and performed just as you describe but after about a year, > things changed. Perhaps it was the climate, it gets very hot in > SoCal. but they just were never the same after that. When I first > got them, I had a gallon jar filled with the extras rather > quickly, but in the end I was lucky to keep them alive. If you can > give me some sure fire pointers I just might drag a few out of > hibernation and see what happens. > > > Huggs > zoe Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 10, 2009 Report Share Posted October 10, 2009 Apparently we are both right hon, When I bought my Ginger Beer Plant- it was with Tibicos and it was sold as GingerBeer Plant, which looked like Tibicos with some other strange things intermixed- I assume it was Ginger residue., Still looking for that recipe. There is another recipe that doesn't use any cultures at all, but yeast, etc. Ginger beer From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia Jump to: navigation <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ginger_beer#column-one>, search <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ginger_beer#searchInput> <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Ginger_beer.jpg> <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Ginger_beer.jpg> English <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/England> Ginger beer *Ginger beer* is a carbonated <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carbonation> soft drink <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soft_drink> that is flavored primarily with ginger <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ginger>, lemon <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lemon>, and sugar <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sugar>. It is rarely produced as an alcoholic beverage <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alcoholic_beverage>. It originated in England <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/England> in the mid-1700s and reached its peak of popularity in the early 1900s.^[1] <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ginger_beer#cite_note-Yates-0> The original recipe requires only ginger, sugar, and water, to which is added a gelatinous substance called " ginger beer plant " (see below <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ginger_beer#Ginger_beer_plant>). Fermentation over a few days turns the mixture into ginger beer. Lemon may be added. A simple version of this recipe can be made at home today in which grated fresh ginger, sugar, a small amount of baker's yeast, and (optionally) lemon juice is bottled in a 2 litre bottle. It is sealed at room temperature for a day or two before refrigerating.^[2] <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ginger_beer#cite_note-1> Instead of using the ginger beer plant, other forms of live cultures can produce the fermented ginger beer. Brewers or Baker's yeast can be used to do this. Other ways include a culture of lactic acid bacteria <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lactic_acid_bacteria>, kefir <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kefir> grains, or tibicos <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tibicos>. Ginger beer is fizzy due to carbon dioxide. The alcohol content when produced by the traditional process can be high, up to 11%,^[1] <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ginger_beer#cite_note-Yates-0> although it is possible to ferment ginger beer in such a way as to produce little alcohol. Ginger beer may be mixed with beer <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beer> (usually a British ale <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ale> of some sort) to make one type of shandy <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shandy>, and with Gosling's Black Seal <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gosling%27s_Rum> rum <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rum> to make a drink, originally from Bermuda <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bermuda>, called a Dark 'N' Stormy <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dark_%27N%27_Stormy>. The soda version of ginger beer is the main ingredient in the Moscow Mule <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moscow_Mule> cocktail. The beverage produced industrially today is often not brewed (fermented). Such ginger beer is carbonated with pressurized carbon dioxide <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carbon_dioxide>, does not contain alcohol, and is sold as a soft drink. Ginger beer is similar to ginger ale <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ginger_ale> except that it has a significantly stronger ginger taste, often being described as ginger ale with a kick to it. Its other distinctive properties include its traditional cloudy appearance, its predominantly citrus sour taste base and its spicy ginger bite. goodbead40@... wrote: > I assure you that ginger beer plant and water kefir are rather distinct cultures. I have both and they smell, taste, and behave differently. Look similar but that's about it. > My milk kefir grows slow, but I am forced to use commercial pasteurized so that may be part of it. Raw milk sounds like it feeds the grains best. That's my dream, to have raw milk. And a cow. But they don't work well in the city here LOL, not even the miniatures. No one has an acre of land, little alone an acre to spare. > > > > >> By the Great Lord Harry!! >> I have what I've always believed to be " Ginger Beer Plant " which seems indistinguishable from water Kefir. >> >> My Milk Kefir has grown four-fold in a couple of weeks. >> My GBP, on the other hand, has barely progressed, I halved it with some-one (leaving me with about 25gm) several weeks ago. >> It has now managed to struggle up to a scant 30gm. >> >> . >> (UK) >> > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 10, 2009 Report Share Posted October 10, 2009 Ginger beer plant (GBP) is a composite organism consisting of a fungus, the yeast <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yeast> /Saccharomyces <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saccharomyces> florentinus/ (formerly /Saccharomyces pyriformis/) and the bacterium <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bacterium> /Lactobacillus <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lactobacillus> hilgardii/ (formerly /Brevibacterium vermiforme/).^[3] <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ginger_beer#cite_note-2> ^[4] <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ginger_beer#cite_note-RajBApte-3> It forms a gelatinous substance that allows it to be easily transferred from one fermenting substrate to the next, much like kefir grains <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kefir> and tibicos <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tibicos>.^[5] <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ginger_beer#cite_note-4> The GBP was first described by Harry Marshall Ward <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Harry_Marshall_Ward> in 1892, from samples he received in 1887.^[4] <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ginger_beer#cite_note-RajBApte-3> ^[6] <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ginger_beer#cite_note-5> ^[7] <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ginger_beer#cite_note-6> Original ginger beer is made by leaving water, sugar, ginger, and GBP to ferment. GBP may be found from several commercial sources or from yeast banks.^[8] <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ginger_beer#cite_note-Ginger_Beer_Plant-7> ^[9] <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ginger_beer#cite_note-FermentedTreasures-8> [edit <http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Ginger_beer & action=edit & section=3>] http://www.plantcultures.org/plants/ginger_food_ginger_beer_plant.html http://www.ipass.net/mpdixon/GBP.htm GingerBeerPlant/ http://www.instructables.com/id/SHPMS9HFU55265A/ _*Ginger Beer Plant Recipe*_ Ginger beer plant is actually the combination of the fungus named /Saccharomyces florentinus/ and the bacteria /Lactobacillus hilgardii/, this magical combination actually forms the gelatinous structure of the ginger beer. *Ingredients:* * Water * Baker's or Brewer's yeast <http://www.buzzle.com/articles/health-benefits-of-brewers-yeast.html> (1 teaspoon full) * Ground ginger * Sugar Considering all the conflicting information floating around ( gee, does that sound familiar) its no wonder that folks are confused because even the so-called experts can't seem to agree on just what GBP is. zoe goodbead40@... wrote: > I assure you that ginger beer plant and water kefir are rather distinct cultures. I have both and they smell, taste, and behave differently. Look similar but that's about it. > My milk kefir grows slow, but I am forced to use commercial pasteurized so that may be part of it. Raw milk sounds like it feeds the grains best. That's my dream, to have raw milk. And a cow. But they don't work well in the city here LOL, not even the miniatures. No one has an acre of land, little alone an acre to spare. > > > > >> By the Great Lord Harry!! >> I have what I've always believed to be " Ginger Beer Plant " which seems indistinguishable from water Kefir. >> >> My Milk Kefir has grown four-fold in a couple of weeks. >> My GBP, on the other hand, has barely progressed, I halved it with some-one (leaving me with about 25gm) several weeks ago. >> It has now managed to struggle up to a scant 30gm. >> >> . >> (UK) >> > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 10, 2009 Report Share Posted October 10, 2009 Zoe, when you say CSY, I assume you mean Caspian Sea Yogurt (AKA " Viili " ). Isn't that some kind of thick, ropy yogurt, that does not require heating milk? I think Marilyn (AKA " The Kefir Lady " ) says that's the one you have to be really careful of not cross-contaminating milk kefir... (clearly I have not done that yet) If you were doing kombucha, dairy kefir, SKG, CSY AND Greek yogurt, I can see why cultures were taking over your life! (what, no sourdough bread?! heh, heh) Vicki in Orlando who has yet to get something decent out of SKG, thus ignores them > > Hmm...that is a possible lifetime research for me than, smile, Jahjet Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 10, 2009 Report Share Posted October 10, 2009 CSY and Viili are NOT the same thing, but yes its Caspian Sea Yogurt, its not thick and ropy- thats the Viili. CSY does not require heating and yes you don't want to cross contaminate. I never had the Viili- someone said it was like mucous and that kind of turned me off. LOL CSY is more like a very mild thin yogurt. Very nice. LOL I was doing the sourdough too. SKG are very tricky, sometimes they work and sometimes they don't zoe Vicki wrote: > Zoe, when you say CSY, I assume you mean Caspian Sea Yogurt > (AKA " Viili " ). Isn't that some kind of thick, ropy yogurt, > that does not require heating milk? I think Marilyn (AKA > " The Kefir Lady " ) says that's the one you have to be really > careful of not cross-contaminating milk kefir... (clearly > I have not done that yet) > > If you were doing kombucha, dairy kefir, SKG, CSY AND Greek > yogurt, I can see why cultures were taking over your life! > (what, no sourdough bread?! heh, heh) > > Vicki in Orlando > who has yet to get something decent out of SKG, thus ignores them > > > >> >>> Hmm...that is a possible lifetime research for me than, smile, Jahjet >>> > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 10, 2009 Report Share Posted October 10, 2009 CSY and Viili are NOT the same thing, but yes its Caspian Sea Yogurt, its not thick and ropy- thats the Viili. CSY does not require heating and yes you don't want to cross contaminate. I never had the Viili- someone said it was like mucous and that kind of turned me off. LOL CSY is more like a very mild thin yogurt. Very nice. LOL I was doing the sourdough too. SKG are very tricky, sometimes they work and sometimes they don't zoe Vicki wrote: > Zoe, when you say CSY, I assume you mean Caspian Sea Yogurt > (AKA " Viili " ). Isn't that some kind of thick, ropy yogurt, > that does not require heating milk? I think Marilyn (AKA > " The Kefir Lady " ) says that's the one you have to be really > careful of not cross-contaminating milk kefir... (clearly > I have not done that yet) > > If you were doing kombucha, dairy kefir, SKG, CSY AND Greek > yogurt, I can see why cultures were taking over your life! > (what, no sourdough bread?! heh, heh) > > Vicki in Orlando > who has yet to get something decent out of SKG, thus ignores them > > > >> >>> Hmm...that is a possible lifetime research for me than, smile, Jahjet >>> > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 10, 2009 Report Share Posted October 10, 2009 Hey, , lately I've been using kosher milk for my kefir (Cholov Yisroel milk, actually), and it is AWESOME! It's easily as expensive as raw milk, but totally worth it... Might try looking for it in your area? Vicki in Orlando > > > > By the Great Lord Harry!! > > I have what I've always believed to be " Ginger Beer Plant " which seems indistinguishable from water Kefir. > > > > My Milk Kefir has grown four-fold in a couple of weeks. > > My GBP, on the other hand, has barely progressed, I halved it with some-one (leaving me with about 25gm) several weeks ago. > > It has now managed to struggle up to a scant 30gm. > > > > . > > (UK) > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 11, 2009 Report Share Posted October 11, 2009 Collective thanks for all the assorted Kefir info. If *really* pressed I'd be forced to say that, from what VERY little I've seen of it Viili looks " Snotty " and is described as (Cut/Paste) " Viili - Finnish milk slime " " Looky here " ... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X5Mk39VxRYU . (UK) ________________________________ From: zoe w Sent: Sunday, 11 October, 2009 2:31:01 CSY and Viili are NOT the same thing, but yes its Caspian Sea Yogurt, its not thick and ropy- thats the Viili. CSY does not require heating and yes you don't want to cross contaminate. I never had the Viili- someone said it was like mucous and that kind of turned me off. LOL CSY is more like a very mild thin yogurt. Very nice. LOL I was doing the sourdough too. SKG are very tricky, sometimes they work and sometimes they don't zoe Vicki wrote: > Zoe, when you say CSY, I assume you mean Caspian Sea Yogurt > (AKA " Viili " ). Isn't that some kind of thick, ropy yogurt, > that does not require heating milk? I think Marilyn (AKA > " The Kefir Lady " ) says that's the one you have to be really > careful of not cross-contaminating milk kefir... (clearly > I have not done that yet) PRUNED Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 11, 2009 Report Share Posted October 11, 2009 Not sure I could find it again. But, somewhere in the wild Blue Yonder there's an article on The " Kosher " tax, which read *to me* that a lot of things are *naturally* The Kosher, the whole Kosher and nothing but the Kosher and are only " Certified " as a ruse (My interpretation) to get some money out of us lesser mortals. If one *looks* rather than going where pointed, one finds things like this snipped bit... " The Facts Attacks on the labeling of food with the symbols for kashruth (traditional Jewish dietary laws) have been a standard ploy of anti-Jewish bigots in the U.S. for decades. Such symbols as the " " emblem of the Union of Orthodox Jewish Congregations (UOJC), among others, confirm that products are kosher—i.e., that foods and production processes have been inspected by competent rabbis from the respective organizations and found to be in compliance with Jewish dietary law. The cost to the consumer for this service is a miniscule fraction of the total production overhead; it is so negligible in practical terms as to be virtually non-existent. A May 18, 1975 New York Timesarticle reported that the cost to General Foods' " Bird's Eye " Unit, for example, is 6.5 millionths (.0000065) of a cent per item. Furthermore, a representative of the Heinz Company has said that the per item cost is " so small we can't even calculate it, " and that such labeling actually makes products less costly by increasing the market for them. " BTW What makes Kosher Milk ANY different from milk Milk? . (UK) ________________________________ From: Vicki Sent: Sunday, 11 October, 2009 5:19:00 Hey, , lately I've been using kosher milk for my kefir (Cholov Yisroel milk, actually), and it is AWESOME! It's easily as expensive as raw milk, but totally worth it... Might try looking for it in your area? Vicki in Orlando Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 11, 2009 Report Share Posted October 11, 2009 LMAO, Well yes that was what I was told, I was simply trying to be more PC. Should have known you would blow the cover on that one. In any case my visual image was far less than appetizing. :-X zoe Kane wrote: > Collective thanks for all the assorted Kefir info. > If *really* pressed I'd be forced to say that, from what VERY little I've seen of it Viili looks " Snotty " > > and is described as (Cut/Paste) " Viili - Finnish milk slime " > > > " Looky here " ... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X5Mk39VxRYU > > . > (UK) > > > > ________________________________ > From: zoe w > Sent: Sunday, 11 October, 2009 2:31:01 > > CSY and Viili are NOT the same thing, but yes its Caspian Sea > Yogurt, its not thick and ropy- thats the Viili. CSY does not > require heating and yes you don't want to cross contaminate. I never > had the Viili- someone said it was like mucous and that kind of > turned me off. LOL CSY is more like a very mild thin yogurt. > Very nice. LOL I was doing the sourdough too. SKG are very > tricky, sometimes they work and sometimes they don't > > zoe > > Vicki wrote: > >> Zoe, when you say CSY, I assume you mean Caspian Sea Yogurt >> (AKA " Viili " ). Isn't that some kind of thick, ropy yogurt, >> that does not require heating milk? I think Marilyn (AKA >> " The Kefir Lady " ) says that's the one you have to be really >> careful of not cross-contaminating milk kefir... (clearly >> I have not done that yet) >> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 11, 2009 Report Share Posted October 11, 2009 I am by no means an expert on Kosher food law, but I have know folk who keep Kosher and have been told by them that dairy laws in the US pretty much make ALL our milk kosher, as a sort of side effect of their fear of contamination. So, there is no need to worry about whether milk is labeled as Kosher or not in the states. > > Not sure I could find it again. But, somewhere in the wild Blue Yonder there's an article on The " Kosher " tax, which read *to me* that a lot of things are *naturally* The Kosher, the whole Kosher and nothing but the Kosher and are only " Certified " as a ruse (My interpretation) to get some money out of us lesser mortals. > > If one *looks* rather than going where pointed, one finds things like this snipped bit... > > " The Facts > > > Attacks on the labeling of food with the symbols for kashruth (traditional > Jewish dietary laws) have been a standard ploy of anti-Jewish bigots in the U.S. for > decades. Such symbols as the " " emblem of the Union of Orthodox Jewish > Congregations (UOJC), among others, confirm that products are kosher†" i.e., that foods > and production processes have been inspected by competent rabbis from the respective > organizations and found to be in compliance with Jewish dietary law. > The cost to the consumer for this service is a miniscule fraction of the total > production overhead; it is so negligible in practical terms as to be virtually > non-existent. A May 18, 1975 New York Timesarticle reported that the cost to > General Foods' " Bird's Eye " Unit, for example, is 6.5 millionths (.0000065) of a > cent per item. Furthermore, a representative of the Heinz Company has said that the per > item cost is " so small we can't even calculate it, " and that such labeling > actually makes products less costly by increasing the market for them. " > > BTW What makes Kosher Milk ANY different from milk Milk? > . > (UK) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 11, 2009 Report Share Posted October 11, 2009 Hi, Everyone! I don't " kefir " at all, but in my experience living in several of the states and a couple of other places, a Kosher version of a meat or dairy product often tastes more fresh and natural than non-Kosher versions. Those of us with a " peace, love, thank you " philosophy might attribute the apparently superior quality to the spiritual energy that has been added to the products. More mundane thinkers may think any difference is due to just one more level of inspection... Peace, love, and thank you to the members of this list! Cathe - currently in Michigan (formerly Florida, Louisiana, Texas, California, Virginia, Puerto Rico, and Bermuda) Sent from my BlackBerry® smartphone with SprintSpeed Re: OT The Kefirs I am by no means an expert on Kosher food law, but I have know folk who keep Kosher and have been told by them that dairy laws in the US pretty much make ALL our milk kosher, as a sort of side effect of their fear of contamination. So, there is no need to worry about whether milk is labeled as Kosher or not in the states. > > Not sure I could find it again. But, somewhere in the wild Blue Yonder there's an article on The " Kosher " tax, which read *to me* that a lot of things are *naturally* The Kosher, the whole Kosher and nothing but the Kosher and are only " Certified " as a ruse (My interpretation) to get some money out of us lesser mortals. > > If one *looks* rather than going where pointed, one finds things like this snipped bit... > > " The Facts > > > Attacks on the labeling of food with the symbols for kashruth (traditional > Jewish dietary laws) have been a standard ploy of anti-Jewish bigots in the U.S. for > decades. Such symbols as the " " emblem of the Union of Orthodox Jewish > Congregations (UOJC), among others, confirm that products are kosher†" i.e., that foods > and production processes have been inspected by competent rabbis from the respective > organizations and found to be in compliance with Jewish dietary law. > The cost to the consumer for this service is a miniscule fraction of the total > production overhead; it is so negligible in practical terms as to be virtually > non-existent. A May 18, 1975 New York Timesarticle reported that the cost to > General Foods' " Bird's Eye " Unit, for example, is 6.5 millionths (.0000065) of a > cent per item. Furthermore, a representative of the Heinz Company has said that the per > item cost is " so small we can't even calculate it, " and that such labeling > actually makes products less costly by increasing the market for them. " > > BTW What makes Kosher Milk ANY different from milk Milk? > . > (UK) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 11, 2009 Report Share Posted October 11, 2009 I tried making yogurt with raw milk once and it turned out a lot like that. Couldn't bring myself to eat it. Always heat my milk now. :-) Polly Kane wrote: > Collective thanks for all the assorted Kefir info. > If *really* pressed I'd be forced to say that, from what VERY little I've seen of it Viili looks " Snotty " > > and is described as (Cut/Paste) " Viili - Finnish milk slime " > > > " Looky here " ... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X5Mk39VxRYU > > . > (UK) > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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