Need Help With Getting Started

[Guest guest]

Hello, all.I have a few general questions that are probably pretty easy for most of you on this forum, I would imagine:A little background is probably in order, however: I built the two-channel OpenEEG device, fabricated some leads, ordered the NeuroPrep, as well as some paste, then tried it all out. Much to my surprise, it all works just great, showing nice, clear brain waves, eye blinks, any muscle movement, such as tooth grinding, etc. Then I downloaded BrainBay, a free software program, also found on the OpenEEG site, and have become somewhat conversant with it; more about this in a minute, though. Next, I obtained a spreadsheet from an on-line acquaintance, to be used for importing and analyzing the assessment results produced by my EEG. I have become thoroughly--painfully--conversant with it, and am able to navigate around in it and even program it to fit whatever I wish; had to learn Excel, first, though. While doing all of this, I have obtained a very rudimentary knowledge of the whole neurofeedback scene, by reading a few of the books that I found on the market. Fascinating stuff. And, of course, during all of this time, I have practiced hooking myself up to the machine, and can now do so easily, obtaining nice, clean results on a consistent basis. The one thing which I lack that would seem to be very important is a way to remove any artifacts, but since I am retired and only doing this for myself, I don't have the finances to buy such expensive software. Looking on-line, it appears as though artifacting software runs over a thousand dollars, and, to put things in perspective, I have been able to obtain everything that I have, so far, for about $300. So that's where I'm at. I would like to start by doing an assessment, and have chosen the general, two-channel assessment, as outlined by Demos, on pp.148-152 of his book, Getting Started With Neurofeedback. (If anybody knows of a better one, I'd appreciate hearing about it)Now to the questions. First, is it appropriate to post questions on this forum, or is the forum intended for professional clinicians? I have many question, some of which are very general, while others might range into the more technical areas, but I don't want to be an annoyance by posting questions that are obvious to everyone else. Second, it would seem that the data obtained from an assessment would need to be "raw" data, in order to analyze it, prior to devising a prescriptive training regime. In other words, it would imply that the software design (BrainBay, in my case) would simply pass the incoming brain wave information directly to the recording targets, such as a virtual oscilloscope, a fast-Fourier transform graph, or to a file writer module (for exporting to the spreadsheet)...all without the altering/interference of any "processing" elements, such as filters or amplifiers, which might alter the various brain wave characteristics, such as amlitude, wavform, or frequency. Is that correct? I am asking this question, because I am trying to visualize what a good BrainBay (or any other) design might look like. Which leads me to the next question.Third, are there other people's assessment designs available for download, somewhere? It would seem like a forum would be the perfect place for such a sharing process to take place, among people with a like interest. It would be nice to be able to see just how others have arranged the various components (filters, reward/inhibit threshold elements, etc.), when doing an assessment or, later, when designing a neurofeedback treatment plan. For one thing, and as the saying goes, "Why reinvent the wheel?, and for another thing, I'm afraid that my own attempts to design might omit things that should be included, and/or include things that should be omitted. Thank you, in advance, for any help which any of you might be willing to share.--Ray Cole

[Guest guest]

You have done amazingly well.Forget about software to remove artifact.Buy the book "The Art Of Artifacting" from ISNR ( I forget the authors) it gives examples and hints about how to avoid them. Try to avoid them rather then remove them.On Jan 11, 2012, at 12:40 AM, rayroshi wrote:

Hello, all.I have a few general questions that are probably pretty easy for most of you on this forum, I would imagine:A little background is probably in order, however: I built the two-channel OpenEEG device, fabricated some leads, ordered the NeuroPrep, as well as some paste, then tried it all out. Much to my surprise, it all works just great, showing nice, clear brain waves, eye blinks, any muscle movement, such as tooth grinding, etc. Then I downloaded BrainBay, a free software program, also found on the OpenEEG site, and have become somewhat conversant with it; more about this in a minute, though. Next, I obtained a spreadsheet from an on-line acquaintance, to be used for importing and analyzing the assessment results produced by my EEG. I have become thoroughly--painfully--conversant with it, and am able to navigate around in it and even program it to fit whatever I wish; had to learn Excel, first, though. While doing all of this, I have obtained a very rudimentary knowledge of the whole neurofeedback scene, by reading a few of the books that I found on the market. Fascinating stuff. And, of course, during all of this time, I have practiced hooking myself up to the machine, and can now do so easily, obtaining nice, clean results on a consistent basis. The one thing which I lack that would seem to be very important is a way to remove any artifacts, but since I am retired and only doing this for myself, I don't have the finances to buy such expensive software. Looking on-line, it appears as though artifacting software runs over a thousand dollars, and, to put things in perspective, I have been able to obtain everything that I have, so far, for about $300. So that's where I'm at. I would like to start by doing an assessment, and have chosen the general, two-channel assessment, as outlined by Demos, on pp.148-152 of his book, Getting Started With Neurofeedback. (If anybody knows of a better one, I'd appreciate hearing about it)Now to the questions. First, is it appropriate to post questions on this forum, or is the forum intended for professional clinicians? I have many question, some of which are very general, while others might range into the more technical areas, but I don't want to be an annoyance by posting questions that are obvious to everyone else. Second, it would seem that the data obtained from an assessment would need to be "raw" data, in order to analyze it, prior to devising a prescriptive training regime. In other words, it would imply that the software design (BrainBay, in my case) would simply pass the incoming brain wave information directly to the recording targets, such as a virtual oscilloscope, a fast-Fourier transform graph, or to a file writer module (for exporting to the spreadsheet)...all without the altering/interference of any "processing" elements, such as filters or amplifiers, which might alter the various brain wave characteristics, such as amlitude, wavform, or frequency. Is that correct? I am asking this question, because I am trying to visualize what a good BrainBay (or any other) design might look like. Which leads me to the next question.Third, are there other people's assessment designs available for download, somewhere? It would seem like a forum would be the perfect place for such a sharing process to take place, among people with a like interest. It would be nice to be able to see just how others have arranged the various components (filters, reward/inhibit threshold elements, etc.), when doing an assessment or, later, when designing a neurofeedback treatment plan. For one thing, and as the saying goes, "Why reinvent the wheel?, and for another thing, I'm afraid that my own attempts to design might omit things that should be included, and/or include things that should be omitted. Thank you, in advance, for any help which any of you might be willing to share.--Ray Cole

Goldring, PhDCounseling & Psychotherapy40 County RoadNorth Falmouth, MA 02556paul.goldring@...

[Guest guest]

Thank you for that reply, . I will definitely get a copy of that book. You

help is much appreciated.

--Ray Cole

>

>

> Hello, all.

>

> I have a few general questions that are probably pretty easy for most of you

on this forum, I would imagine:

>

> A little background is probably in order, however:

>

> I built the two-channel OpenEEG device, fabricated some leads, ordered the

NeuroPrep, as well as some paste, then tried it all out. Much to my surprise, it

all works just great, showing nice, clear brain waves, eye blinks, any muscle

movement, such as tooth grinding, etc.

>

> Then I downloaded BrainBay, a free software program, also found on the OpenEEG

site, and have become somewhat conversant with it; more about this in a minute,

though.

>

> Next, I obtained a spreadsheet from an on-line acquaintance, to be used for

importing and analyzing the assessment results produced by my EEG. I have become

thoroughly--painfully--conversant with it, and am able to navigate around in it

and even program it to fit whatever I wish; had to learn Excel, first, though.

>

> While doing all of this, I have obtained a very rudimentary knowledge of the

whole neurofeedback scene, by reading a few of the books that I found on the

market. Fascinating stuff.

>

> And, of course, during all of this time, I have practiced hooking myself up to

the machine, and can now do so easily, obtaining nice, clean results on a

consistent basis.

>

> The one thing which I lack that would seem to be very important is a way to

remove any artifacts, but since I am retired and only doing this for myself, I

don't have the finances to buy such expensive software. Looking on-line, it

appears as though artifacting software runs over a thousand dollars, and, to put

things in perspective, I have been able to obtain everything that I have, so

far, for about $300.

>

> So that's where I'm at. I would like to start by doing an assessment, and

have chosen the general, two-channel assessment, as outlined by Demos, on

pp.148-152 of his book, Getting Started With Neurofeedback. (If anybody knows

of a better one, I'd appreciate hearing about it)

>

> Now to the questions.

>

> First, is it appropriate to post questions on this forum, or is the forum

intended for professional clinicians? I have many question, some of which are

very general, while others might range into the more technical areas, but I

don't want to be an annoyance by posting questions that are obvious to everyone

else.

>

> Second, it would seem that the data obtained from an assessment would need to

be " raw " data, in order to analyze it, prior to devising a prescriptive training

regime. In other words, it would imply that the software design (BrainBay, in

my case) would simply pass the incoming brain wave information directly to the

recording targets, such as a virtual oscilloscope, a fast-Fourier transform

graph, or to a file writer module (for exporting to the spreadsheet)...all

without the altering/interference of any " processing " elements, such as filters

or amplifiers, which might alter the various brain wave characteristics, such as

amlitude, wavform, or frequency. Is that correct? I am asking this question,

because I am trying to visualize what a good BrainBay (or any other) design

might look like. Which leads me to the next question.

>

> Third, are there other people's assessment designs available for download,

somewhere? It would seem like a forum would be the perfect place for such a

sharing process to take place, among people with a like interest. It would be

nice to be able to see just how others have arranged the various components

(filters, reward/inhibit threshold elements, etc.), when doing an assessment or,

later, when designing a neurofeedback treatment plan. For one thing, and as the

saying goes, " Why reinvent the wheel?, and for another thing, I'm afraid that my

own attempts to design might omit things that should be included, and/or include

things that should be omitted.

>

> Thank you, in advance, for any help which any of you might be willing to

share.

>

> --Ray Cole

>

>

>

>

>

>

> Goldring, PhD

> Counseling & Psychotherapy

> 40 County Road

> North Falmouth, MA 02556

> paul.goldring@...

>