Re: The More It Changes, The More It Stays The Same

[Guest guest]

Here is what I have to say about your story:

1) I many many MANY times, as a child, experienced the exact same

thing. Kids chasing me around in school and bullying me, then

leaving or stopping the bullying JUST before the adult saw them. The

adult would find me upset and tell me to be quiet before they even

LISTENED to why I was upset. This further upset me, so I would

persist in my explanation and get yelled at and/or detention, and

when I was finally able to explain myself, they would say " I didn't

see it. Unless you've got a witness, it is hearsay. "

Except sometimes they DID see it and just didn't want to deal with

the problem.

2) One thing I have observed from personal experience is that if the

student being picked on happens to be one the adult actually LIKES,

then the adult intervenes. But the adult ignores the predicament of

the student s/he does not llike. There was a time when I and some

other boy were being picked on at the same time. The adult to the

kids to stop picking on the other kid but said nothing about picking

on me. The bullies took the adult at his word and stopped picking on

the other kid but began punching me. The adult did nothing to stop

the bullying and I wound up getting beat up pretty badly.

3) There are rules that educators MUST follow and in many schools,

one of them is to stop bullying immediately so that the school is

not held liable for any sort of injuries stemming from their failure

to control the situation. If an educator flaunts this rule, it is

either because

A) S/he is ignorant of the rule (not likely) or

S/he wants to avoid the ensuing paperwork/incident report, or

else it is

C) S/he is deliberately choosing sides.

Parents ought to consider this very carefully. If the rules state

that a school employee is to interven during a bullying incident,

and if you can produce witnesses to testify that an employee did NOT

intervene, then, in addition to holding the employee accountable,

you ought to ask yourself if the employee was DELIBERATELY

discriminating against your child.

4) Given that this is still happenning 25 years later, I have to

assume that a new generation of adults has been bred up to be just

as clueless and/or uncaring and/or willfully callous as the adults I

used to know were.

5) For years I used to believe that when kids grew up, they

developed a moral imperative that caused them to be responsible law

abiding adults, but being an adult I know that this was idealistic

thinking on my part. If you are an insensitive kid, you grow up to

be an insensitive adult.

Tom

Administrator

This is what parents of Asplings in schools have to look forward to

every single day of the school year and what's worse, this is what

our AS children have to look forward to every single day of the

school year.

What is it with people?

Parents and caregivers of Asplings, do you have an opinion on what

happened? Are you certain that this sort of bullying is not

happening in your own child's school?

Does anyone care if this is happening in schools?

Raven

[Guest guest]

" Does anyone care if this is happening in schools? "

I do care and this sort of thing really --- me off! It is one of the

reasons I get so angry, one of the reasons I get so upset - one of

the reasons I get so frustrated because so often no one else seems to

give a damn!

My son has come to me previously (at a previous school) with concerns

and I took them up with the school - these issues were not addressed

to my satisfaction - I was basically fobbed off. I explained to

others, including other parents and they seemed strangely

unconcerned - I really could not understand the blase attitudes.

So the frustration of said situations and feeling like the only

person that cared about what was happening to children, feeling like

I was banging my head against a brick wall - eventually leads to

depression and also a feeling of being disheartened.

>

> Bullying.

>

> Bullying at school.

>

> Bullying at school when adults are aware of it and choose to be

> ignorant of the facts.

>

> I was at my son's elementary school yesterday and while there, I

> witnessed an other AS child (from Grade 3) in a rage and frustrated,

> running down the hallway and into the boys' washroom. Now this did

> not upset or surprise me as I could empathize with how he must be

> feeling over whatever upset him so.

>

> However, immediately behind him was a little boy the same age who

> followed him into the washroom. At first I thought he must be a

> thoughtful child to see if he could help the first little boy.

>

> I was wrong.

>

> A minute or so later, the second boy came back out and met up with a

> little girl in a red outfit, with a big smile on his face.

>

> " Let's go bug him, ok? " he suggested to the little girl and together

> they ran off to the washroom. I could hear the two of them annoying

> and teasing the first little boy who, at this point, was screaming

> at the top of his lungs in a complete and flat-out meltdown.

>

> At this point, an adult wandered (it wasn't very fast and it really

> was wandering) down the hallway but by this time, the two other

> children were calmly walking back to class having accomplished their

> goal of upsetting the child.

>

> Of course, when the adult met up with the first boy, he was met with

> quite the rage and I'm certain he did not know what to do as is so

> often the case. The adult reacted in typical NT adult ways treating

> the situation as a behavioural problem where the child had all the

> control to settle down and was choosing to refuse to do so.

>

> I had not intervened previously because I wanted to see how bullying

> escapes under the radar at my son's school since he is oftentimes

> the victim of under the radar bullying. However, at this point, I

> did, and pointed out to the adult that the two children he had

> passed in the hallway had purposely and maliciously aggravated a

> situation for the sole purpose of torturing the first child.

>

> The adult was surprised and said that if that had happened, the

> first child should have told him.

>

> I was annoyed with his response and again reiterated that the two

> children who had passed him in the hallway had escalated the

> situation for the sole purpose of further upsetting the first child

> and that as an adult who witnessed this, my observations were

> independent third party observations with merit and weight. He

> shrugged his shoulders and said the first child never said anything

> about two other children and that he was trying to get the first

> child under control.

>

> Again, I said that he was missing my point that the first child was

> reacting appropriately for what he had experienced and given that he

> was AS. The adult raised his eyebrows and said, " Well, yes he has

> Asperger's but that's no reason to be carrying on like that just coz

> a couple kids were bugging him before I got to him. "

>

> He just didn't get it. I told him that it was a reason because

> those two children who just got away -- again -- with bullying him,

> were obviously not the only two children who get away with bullying

> him. I asked if he was going to deal with the two children who were

> responsible in large part for this problem, since I could identify

> them. He said it wasn't important.

>

> I then spoke with the Child and Youth Worker of the school who also

> did not understand what my concerns were.

>

> I then spoke with the Secretary in the office who, while empathetic

> with the child's plight, said " kids will be kids. "

>

> The principal was unavailable.

>

> This is what parents of Asplings in schools have to look forward to

> every single day of the school year and what's worse, this is what

> our AS children have to look forward to every single day of the

> school year.

>

> What is it with people?

>

> Parents and caregivers of Asplings, do you have an opinion on what

> happened? Are you certain that this sort of bullying is not

> happening in your own child's school?

>

> Does anyone care if this is happening in schools?

>

> Raven

>

[Guest guest]

" Does anyone care if this is happening in schools? "

I do care and this sort of thing really --- me off! It is one of the

reasons I get so angry, one of the reasons I get so upset - one of

the reasons I get so frustrated because so often no one else seems to

give a damn!

My son has come to me previously (at a previous school) with concerns

and I took them up with the school - these issues were not addressed

to my satisfaction - I was basically fobbed off. I explained to

others, including other parents and they seemed strangely

unconcerned - I really could not understand the blase attitudes.

So the frustration of said situations and feeling like the only

person that cared about what was happening to children, feeling like

I was banging my head against a brick wall - eventually leads to

depression and also a feeling of being disheartened.

>

> Bullying.

>

> Bullying at school.

>

> Bullying at school when adults are aware of it and choose to be

> ignorant of the facts.

>

> I was at my son's elementary school yesterday and while there, I

> witnessed an other AS child (from Grade 3) in a rage and frustrated,

> running down the hallway and into the boys' washroom. Now this did

> not upset or surprise me as I could empathize with how he must be

> feeling over whatever upset him so.

>

> However, immediately behind him was a little boy the same age who

> followed him into the washroom. At first I thought he must be a

> thoughtful child to see if he could help the first little boy.

>

> I was wrong.

>

> A minute or so later, the second boy came back out and met up with a

> little girl in a red outfit, with a big smile on his face.

>

> " Let's go bug him, ok? " he suggested to the little girl and together

> they ran off to the washroom. I could hear the two of them annoying

> and teasing the first little boy who, at this point, was screaming

> at the top of his lungs in a complete and flat-out meltdown.

>

> At this point, an adult wandered (it wasn't very fast and it really

> was wandering) down the hallway but by this time, the two other

> children were calmly walking back to class having accomplished their

> goal of upsetting the child.

>

> Of course, when the adult met up with the first boy, he was met with

> quite the rage and I'm certain he did not know what to do as is so

> often the case. The adult reacted in typical NT adult ways treating

> the situation as a behavioural problem where the child had all the

> control to settle down and was choosing to refuse to do so.

>

> I had not intervened previously because I wanted to see how bullying

> escapes under the radar at my son's school since he is oftentimes

> the victim of under the radar bullying. However, at this point, I

> did, and pointed out to the adult that the two children he had

> passed in the hallway had purposely and maliciously aggravated a

> situation for the sole purpose of torturing the first child.

>

> The adult was surprised and said that if that had happened, the

> first child should have told him.

>

> I was annoyed with his response and again reiterated that the two

> children who had passed him in the hallway had escalated the

> situation for the sole purpose of further upsetting the first child

> and that as an adult who witnessed this, my observations were

> independent third party observations with merit and weight. He

> shrugged his shoulders and said the first child never said anything

> about two other children and that he was trying to get the first

> child under control.

>

> Again, I said that he was missing my point that the first child was

> reacting appropriately for what he had experienced and given that he

> was AS. The adult raised his eyebrows and said, " Well, yes he has

> Asperger's but that's no reason to be carrying on like that just coz

> a couple kids were bugging him before I got to him. "

>

> He just didn't get it. I told him that it was a reason because

> those two children who just got away -- again -- with bullying him,

> were obviously not the only two children who get away with bullying

> him. I asked if he was going to deal with the two children who were

> responsible in large part for this problem, since I could identify

> them. He said it wasn't important.

>

> I then spoke with the Child and Youth Worker of the school who also

> did not understand what my concerns were.

>

> I then spoke with the Secretary in the office who, while empathetic

> with the child's plight, said " kids will be kids. "

>

> The principal was unavailable.

>

> This is what parents of Asplings in schools have to look forward to

> every single day of the school year and what's worse, this is what

> our AS children have to look forward to every single day of the

> school year.

>

> What is it with people?

>

> Parents and caregivers of Asplings, do you have an opinion on what

> happened? Are you certain that this sort of bullying is not

> happening in your own child's school?

>

> Does anyone care if this is happening in schools?

>

> Raven

>

[Guest guest]

" 4) Given that this is still happenning 25 years later, I have to

assume that a new generation of adults has been bred up to be just

as clueless and/or uncaring and/or willfully callous as the adults I

used to know were. "

Unfortunately I think that is often likely the case and why I have

become so disheartened recently.

>

> Here is what I have to say about your story:

>

> 1) I many many MANY times, as a child, experienced the exact same

> thing. Kids chasing me around in school and bullying me, then

> leaving or stopping the bullying JUST before the adult saw them. The

> adult would find me upset and tell me to be quiet before they even

> LISTENED to why I was upset. This further upset me, so I would

> persist in my explanation and get yelled at and/or detention, and

> when I was finally able to explain myself, they would say " I didn't

> see it. Unless you've got a witness, it is hearsay. "

>

> Except sometimes they DID see it and just didn't want to deal with

> the problem.

>

> 2) One thing I have observed from personal experience is that if the

> student being picked on happens to be one the adult actually LIKES,

> then the adult intervenes. But the adult ignores the predicament of

> the student s/he does not llike. There was a time when I and some

> other boy were being picked on at the same time. The adult to the

> kids to stop picking on the other kid but said nothing about picking

> on me. The bullies took the adult at his word and stopped picking on

> the other kid but began punching me. The adult did nothing to stop

> the bullying and I wound up getting beat up pretty badly.

>

> 3) There are rules that educators MUST follow and in many schools,

> one of them is to stop bullying immediately so that the school is

> not held liable for any sort of injuries stemming from their failure

> to control the situation. If an educator flaunts this rule, it is

> either because

>

> A) S/he is ignorant of the rule (not likely) or

>

> S/he wants to avoid the ensuing paperwork/incident report, or

> else it is

>

> C) S/he is deliberately choosing sides.

>

> Parents ought to consider this very carefully. If the rules state

> that a school employee is to interven during a bullying incident,

> and if you can produce witnesses to testify that an employee did NOT

> intervene, then, in addition to holding the employee accountable,

> you ought to ask yourself if the employee was DELIBERATELY

> discriminating against your child.

>

> 4) Given that this is still happenning 25 years later, I have to

> assume that a new generation of adults has been bred up to be just

> as clueless and/or uncaring and/or willfully callous as the adults I

> used to know were.

>

> 5) For years I used to believe that when kids grew up, they

> developed a moral imperative that caused them to be responsible law

> abiding adults, but being an adult I know that this was idealistic

> thinking on my part. If you are an insensitive kid, you grow up to

> be an insensitive adult.

>

> Tom

> Administrator

>

>

[Guest guest]

" 4) Given that this is still happenning 25 years later, I have to

assume that a new generation of adults has been bred up to be just

as clueless and/or uncaring and/or willfully callous as the adults I

used to know were. "

Unfortunately I think that is often likely the case and why I have

become so disheartened recently.

>

> Here is what I have to say about your story:

>

> 1) I many many MANY times, as a child, experienced the exact same

> thing. Kids chasing me around in school and bullying me, then

> leaving or stopping the bullying JUST before the adult saw them. The

> adult would find me upset and tell me to be quiet before they even

> LISTENED to why I was upset. This further upset me, so I would

> persist in my explanation and get yelled at and/or detention, and

> when I was finally able to explain myself, they would say " I didn't

> see it. Unless you've got a witness, it is hearsay. "

>

> Except sometimes they DID see it and just didn't want to deal with

> the problem.

>

> 2) One thing I have observed from personal experience is that if the

> student being picked on happens to be one the adult actually LIKES,

> then the adult intervenes. But the adult ignores the predicament of

> the student s/he does not llike. There was a time when I and some

> other boy were being picked on at the same time. The adult to the

> kids to stop picking on the other kid but said nothing about picking

> on me. The bullies took the adult at his word and stopped picking on

> the other kid but began punching me. The adult did nothing to stop

> the bullying and I wound up getting beat up pretty badly.

>

> 3) There are rules that educators MUST follow and in many schools,

> one of them is to stop bullying immediately so that the school is

> not held liable for any sort of injuries stemming from their failure

> to control the situation. If an educator flaunts this rule, it is

> either because

>

> A) S/he is ignorant of the rule (not likely) or

>

> S/he wants to avoid the ensuing paperwork/incident report, or

> else it is

>

> C) S/he is deliberately choosing sides.

>

> Parents ought to consider this very carefully. If the rules state

> that a school employee is to interven during a bullying incident,

> and if you can produce witnesses to testify that an employee did NOT

> intervene, then, in addition to holding the employee accountable,

> you ought to ask yourself if the employee was DELIBERATELY

> discriminating against your child.

>

> 4) Given that this is still happenning 25 years later, I have to

> assume that a new generation of adults has been bred up to be just

> as clueless and/or uncaring and/or willfully callous as the adults I

> used to know were.

>

> 5) For years I used to believe that when kids grew up, they

> developed a moral imperative that caused them to be responsible law

> abiding adults, but being an adult I know that this was idealistic

> thinking on my part. If you are an insensitive kid, you grow up to

> be an insensitive adult.

>

> Tom

> Administrator

>

>

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 11/11/2006 3:32:34 PM Eastern Standard Time, no_reply writes:

1) I many many MANY times, as a child, experienced the exact samething. Kids chasing me around in school and bullying me, thenleaving or stopping the bullying JUST before the adult saw them. Theadult would find me upset and tell me to be quiet before they evenLISTENED to why I was upset. This further upset me, so I wouldpersist in my explanation and get yelled at and/or detention, andwhen I was finally able to explain myself, they would say "I didn'tsee it. Unless you've got a witness, it is hearsay."

This happened to me a lot. The neighbor kids would bully me any time they caught me outside the house and often even besieged me inside the house if my mother wasn't around. Sometimes they got caught at it, but their parents never did anything about it. Really, most of the adults around were afraid of those kids because they were known to be a bit violent and dumb as rocks.

On the other hand, any time I fought back, they would run screaming home to mommy and I would get in trouble. They could chase me home, gang up on me 2 or more to 1 and threaten me or push me around. They could play in my yard, throw things at my dogs (who were fenced in as per city law while theirs were not) and even shoot them with pellet guns. Many times they surrounded my house, peeking in windows looking for me, trying to force open doors and would stick their pellet guns through the mail slot and dog door looking to shoot anything that moved. That was never a problem.

However, the time I got tired of watching them kicking my dog around and shooting him in the legs with their pellets guns and I went outside with my .22 rifle and threatened to shoot them, and they ran home screaming, guns in hand, I got in so much trouble. The fact that my dog had wounds and welts on his legs didn't matter a bit. It didn't matter a bit that they have shot at me a few times, once even by opening my basement bedroom window open a little and shooting into the chair I sat in, but wasn't in at the time. That was all just boyish fun. I wonder if they would have felt the same had I shot one of their dogs with my pellet gun? Probably not.

Those boys really didn't care who might see what they were doing, mostly because I think they were too stupid to realize that people could have been watching them from inside houses or whatever. Of course, they probably also knew that their parents would never punish them anyway.

It was still amusing how they would torment and push me acting all tough, but as soon as I came after them they ran like cowards. I never hit them, though I probably should have. I knew if I did hit them, I would be the one in all the trouble, not to mention that that would probably be enough to get them to overcome their cowardice and mob me. Still, there were plenty of times they nearly got stabbed, hit with bats or sticks, etc.

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 11/11/2006 3:32:34 PM Eastern Standard Time, no_reply writes:

1) I many many MANY times, as a child, experienced the exact samething. Kids chasing me around in school and bullying me, thenleaving or stopping the bullying JUST before the adult saw them. Theadult would find me upset and tell me to be quiet before they evenLISTENED to why I was upset. This further upset me, so I wouldpersist in my explanation and get yelled at and/or detention, andwhen I was finally able to explain myself, they would say "I didn'tsee it. Unless you've got a witness, it is hearsay."

This happened to me a lot. The neighbor kids would bully me any time they caught me outside the house and often even besieged me inside the house if my mother wasn't around. Sometimes they got caught at it, but their parents never did anything about it. Really, most of the adults around were afraid of those kids because they were known to be a bit violent and dumb as rocks.

On the other hand, any time I fought back, they would run screaming home to mommy and I would get in trouble. They could chase me home, gang up on me 2 or more to 1 and threaten me or push me around. They could play in my yard, throw things at my dogs (who were fenced in as per city law while theirs were not) and even shoot them with pellet guns. Many times they surrounded my house, peeking in windows looking for me, trying to force open doors and would stick their pellet guns through the mail slot and dog door looking to shoot anything that moved. That was never a problem.

However, the time I got tired of watching them kicking my dog around and shooting him in the legs with their pellets guns and I went outside with my .22 rifle and threatened to shoot them, and they ran home screaming, guns in hand, I got in so much trouble. The fact that my dog had wounds and welts on his legs didn't matter a bit. It didn't matter a bit that they have shot at me a few times, once even by opening my basement bedroom window open a little and shooting into the chair I sat in, but wasn't in at the time. That was all just boyish fun. I wonder if they would have felt the same had I shot one of their dogs with my pellet gun? Probably not.

Those boys really didn't care who might see what they were doing, mostly because I think they were too stupid to realize that people could have been watching them from inside houses or whatever. Of course, they probably also knew that their parents would never punish them anyway.

It was still amusing how they would torment and push me acting all tough, but as soon as I came after them they ran like cowards. I never hit them, though I probably should have. I knew if I did hit them, I would be the one in all the trouble, not to mention that that would probably be enough to get them to overcome their cowardice and mob me. Still, there were plenty of times they nearly got stabbed, hit with bats or sticks, etc.

[Guest guest]

Man oh man. People talk to me about others " getting it " . This is

not a new aspect of my childs treatment in the world at large. I

just hammer teachers with information. I humanize my son and his

frustrations with stories, anedotes etc. Every school I start this

process over. Ravi is 6 and I know children are cruel, and I address

this NOW. I attend meetings at the school and keep my self

recognizable. He is cute and 6 now, but I know mommy can't be

trapsing into school when he is 15. This issue is real, I actually

think teaching should become more automatic. I have proposed a

teaching screen device that would be progressive and remedial at the

same time. An interface that a child would lie in face up at a

screen and children would be taught this way for information (visual)

pictures and the " teacher would be the same no special favoritisim or

tonal inflection of disapproval " Most people think I am a bit

nutty. I have said this at MIT and the scientist wanted to know if I

had constructed the device (UMMM as I have no government grants for

research the answer is no)But I digress.

What I do is to try to show over and over what is happening and why,

and why cute adorable NT children are sometimes allowed to be monsters

(BTW this is a disservice to the children as well, they are being

taught to be inconsiderate, and that it is ok and even sactioned by

adults. ARRRGGGGGGGG!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Guest guest]

Man oh man. People talk to me about others " getting it " . This is

not a new aspect of my childs treatment in the world at large. I

just hammer teachers with information. I humanize my son and his

frustrations with stories, anedotes etc. Every school I start this

process over. Ravi is 6 and I know children are cruel, and I address

this NOW. I attend meetings at the school and keep my self

recognizable. He is cute and 6 now, but I know mommy can't be

trapsing into school when he is 15. This issue is real, I actually

think teaching should become more automatic. I have proposed a

teaching screen device that would be progressive and remedial at the

same time. An interface that a child would lie in face up at a

screen and children would be taught this way for information (visual)

pictures and the " teacher would be the same no special favoritisim or

tonal inflection of disapproval " Most people think I am a bit

nutty. I have said this at MIT and the scientist wanted to know if I

had constructed the device (UMMM as I have no government grants for

research the answer is no)But I digress.

What I do is to try to show over and over what is happening and why,

and why cute adorable NT children are sometimes allowed to be monsters

(BTW this is a disservice to the children as well, they are being

taught to be inconsiderate, and that it is ok and even sactioned by

adults. ARRRGGGGGGGG!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Guest guest]

this happened to me as well. If a person attacked me(same aged peers)

it was ok If I reacted, I was punished. I think it has to do with whAT

you said " dumb as rocks " People that have intelligence and ability

will strike once and precisely.

This sounds like a trailer trash story but whatever. My first husband

had an unsavory bunch of friends. DRUG DEALERS I had my first daughter

and was unhappy with them comming to our place to party " my ex allowed

and encouraged his friends to come over " hence the EX part. I was 19

and confused those are my only excuses. anyway I was tired of them My

ex had guns(air guns pellet guns) I was angry at a mob of drug dealers

being at my home, I went outside with a 22 (never shot one before) or

since My only experience was Bugs Bunny. Long story short I shot my

then husbands van (NEVER AIMED AT A HUMAN) house was in a location that

was a dirt road and there were no neighbors.

Anyway the effect was beautiful. Drug sellers ran in every direction

and I was labeled crazy, they refused to visit thereafter and I was

thrilled. I didn't have to see these people and enmass they were sure

I didn't like them. all in all a very streamlined effect.

Even if I seemed crazy, it was more like a fox.