Guest guest Posted January 22, 2012 Report Share Posted January 22, 2012 Hi ,I would look at the archives for the biofeedback list. Here is a snippet from one recent thread:biofeedback/message/57244 "If in fact benzodiazepines, the class of drugs that ends in azepam are a contraindication to using Zenger you should have been told this upfront. People who are on these medications are more complicated to work with, not impossible, but it takes a longer time and a more experienced practitioner who is also a good psychotherapist to work with this. These medications entwine with our biology as well as our personality and our relationships. It is more complicated than simply taking or not taking a pill. I speak from experience having treated many on benzodiazepines both as a neurofeedback and psychotherapy practitioner." Chivers>> Dear Listmates,> I have heard that it is difficult to get change with clients who are on benzodiazapines. I believe I heard this from an instructor from EEG Spectrum and then recently from a trainer very experienced with alpha/theta training. I looked up benzodiazapine in the archives and couldn't find anything. Have any of you found this to be true? If so, how have you worked with this problem? > thank you for any help with this,> Vieille> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 22, 2012 Report Share Posted January 22, 2012 Since I'm probably the instructor who said it was difficult to train folks using benzodiazepines with nfb, I'll talk about at least some of the reasons that produce problems. First, we know from animal studies that benzodiazepines slow learning by operant conditioning. Second, many of the people talking benzos are taking them for anxiety (often overarousal) and the impact of benzos on the EEG is to increase 18-22 Hz activity everywhere in the brain. This increase persists for days after the effect of the drug wears off (reduced blood levels). Then we encounter the learned response (using medication) to relieve discomforting anxiety combined with the fact that folks often feel more aroused and more anxious when the effect of the drug wears off and their EEG remains activated. Working with people on benzodiazepines requires more preparation, adjusted expectations, and good therapy skills to help the person reduce their reliance on the medication. It can certainly be done, as others have pointed out, but it is trickier than with many other issues. We usually work with the person's prescriber to help them gradually reduce their dependence on the medication and support their withdrawal with nfb training. Ed Hamlin Benzodiazapines Dear Listmates, I have heard that it is difficult to get change with clients who are on benzodiazapines. I believe I heard this from an instructor from EEG Spectrum and then recently from a trainer very experienced with alpha/theta training. I looked up benzodiazapine in the archives and couldn't find anything. Have any of you found this to be true? If so, how have you worked with this problem? thank you for any help with this, Vieille Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 25, 2012 Report Share Posted January 25, 2012 Can anyone tell me the effects of Depakote, Mirtazapine, Guanfacine and Lithium Carbonate on brain training?Thanks! From: Ed Hamlin <EDH9494@...> Sent: Sunday, January 22, 2012 11:00 AM Subject: Re: Benzodiazapines Since I'm probably the instructor who said it was difficult to train folks using benzodiazepines with nfb, I'll talk about at least some of the reasons that produce problems. First, we know from animal studies that benzodiazepines slow learning by operant conditioning. Second, many of the people talking benzos are taking them for anxiety (often overarousal) and the impact of benzos on the EEG is to increase 18-22 Hz activity everywhere in the brain. This increase persists for days after the effect of the drug wears off (reduced blood levels). Then we encounter the learned response (using medication) to relieve discomforting anxiety combined with the fact that folks often feel more aroused and more anxious when the effect of the drug wears off and their EEG remains activated. Working with people on benzodiazepines requires more preparation, adjusted expectations, and good therapy skills to help the person reduce their reliance on the medication. It can certainly be done, as others have pointed out, but it is trickier than with many other issues. We usually work with the person's prescriber to help them gradually reduce their dependence on the medication and support their withdrawal with nfb training. Ed Hamlin Benzodiazapines Dear Listmates, I have heard that it is difficult to get change with clients who are on benzodiazapines. I believe I heard this from an instructor from EEG Spectrum and then recently from a trainer very experienced with alpha/theta training. I looked up benzodiazapine in the archives and couldn't find anything. Have any of you found this to be true? If so, how have you worked with this problem? thank you for any help with this, Vieille Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 25, 2012 Report Share Posted January 25, 2012 Thank you and Ed for your help, I appreciate it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 25, 2012 Report Share Posted January 25, 2012 I 'm curious about the idea that the benzos increase high beta. On a chemical level they increase the neurotransmitter GABA. Margoshes, Ph.D.NY State Licensed PsychologistOn Jan 25, 2012, at 3:58 PM, RVieille@... wrote: Thank you and Ed for your help, I appreciate it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 25, 2012 Report Share Posted January 25, 2012 Whoops please excuse abortive question in my previous post. Margoshes, Ph.D.NY State Licensed PsychologistOn Jan 25, 2012, at 3:58 PM, RVieille@... wrote: Thank you and Ed for your help, I appreciate it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 26, 2012 Report Share Posted January 26, 2012 Hi Margoshes, I tend to see this increase in high beta in every client that is taking benzos. BTW do you have any info (articles or sites) where this is pointed out on a research level? Thanks ------- Prof.Dr. Alvoeiro,Ph.D.(Hull,UK),C.Psychol.(BPS,UK) 2000-119 Santarem, Portugal E-mail: jorge.alvoeiro@... http://jorge0alvoeiro.no.sapo.pt/ ________________________________ De: em nome de Me Enviada: qua 25-01-2012 21:31 Para: Assunto: Re: Re: Benzodiazapines I 'm curious about the idea that the benzos increase high beta. On a chemical level they increase the neurotransmitter GABA. Margoshes, Ph.D. NY State Licensed Psychologist On Jan 25, 2012, at 3:58 PM, RVieille@... wrote: Thank you and Ed for your help, I appreciate it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 26, 2012 Report Share Posted January 26, 2012 , where does hibeta come up: in the front, rear part or everywhere? Uwe Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 26, 2012 Report Share Posted January 26, 2012 Hi Uwe, For the initial assessment I use the bipolar F3+P3 and F4+P4. This gives an overal view over the left and right side. Using the TLC assessment window one can see a large EEG amplitude on the blue Beta frequency (23-38Hz), the mean about 28-30Hz. Bye for now ------- Prof.Dr. Alvoeiro,Ph.D.(Hull,UK),C.Psychol.(BPS,UK) 2000-119 Santarem, Portugal E-mail: jorge.alvoeiro@... http://jorge0alvoeiro.no.sapo.pt/ ________________________________ De: em nome de uwegerlach@... Enviada: qui 26-01-2012 13:27 Para: Assunto: Re: Benzodiazapines , where does hibeta come up: in the front, rear part or everywhere? Uwe Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 26, 2012 Report Share Posted January 26, 2012 Hi, Further to this topic there is some work which has found that benzos has an effect on high beta, but the work was done in rats (Effects of diazepam and zolpidem on EEG beta frequencies are behavior-specific in rats) There is also another in humans (EEG effects of diazepam. Studies on 16 patients) but it's in german which I don't know. This interest comes from some work which has shown beta in ADHD kids (Excess beta activity in children with attention-deficit/hyperactivity disorder: an atypical electrophysiological group) For full article see http://www.drakeinstitute.com/research-article/excess-beta-activity-children.pdf In fact this article was mentioned in a very critical paper on the use of NF by lay people. http://www.psikofarmakoloji.org/pdf/20_3_1.pdf I don't want to start a kind of a "war" over here but...... Bye for now -------Prof.Dr. Alvoeiro,Ph.D.(Hull,UK),C.Psychol.(BPS,UK)2000-119 Santarem, Portugal E-mail: jorge.alvoeiro@... http://jorge0alvoeiro.no.sapo.pt/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You are posting as a guest. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.