Re: Is there a life before death? was: Safety in numbers

[Guest guest]

Mmmmmmmm bit wary of responding to what could be deemed as a

religious post in here, as often discussing such can sometimes become

quite heated - however, here goes.

" Religions of whichever kind are nothing but hopeful fantasies

promoted by a hoard of " useful idiots " who are promised " pie in the

sky " if they follow the rules and regulations of that particular

religion. And like other pyramid hoaxes the suckers are generally

promised extra bonus for each new sucker they enrol. The real catch

is that the total bonus will only be available after the death of the

proselyte,... "

Rather a cynical view, although I will admit some operate that way -

thankfully and hopefully not all though.

" Ro 6:2 God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any

longer therein?

Ro 6:7 For he that is dead is freed from sin.

Ro 6:11 Likewise reckon ye also yourselves to be dead indeed unto

sin, but alive unto God through Jesus Christ our Lord. "

Now these always confuse me, when someone becomes a Christian they

don't automatically stop sinning. To my knowledge everyone sins and I

think somewhere there is a verse that says so (haven't got time to

dig it out right now, mum just arrived).

>

> One of the problems with neurotypicals and other simian creatures

is the

> doctrine of " safety in numbers " . It may work all right in herds of

> ungulates, schools of fish and even in conglomerate throngs of

political or

> religious associates.

>

> But when it comes to facing death or God, it is inevitably a one to

one

> experience. Flashing whatever gold edged membership card will be

of no use.

> Hiding in the crowd simply does not work. I have met many people,

who

> soothe their worries by insisting that they are quite convinced

that they

> are no worse than most other people. They will get a problem when

they find

> out that behaving well above average is not sufficient.

>

> Even so we have a hard time really gauging our own abilities. On a

research

> about driving skills 85% of people asked estimated their own

driving skills

> as being well above average! Some of the remaining 15% must be

really

> rotten drivers!

>

> Religions of whichever kind are nothing but hopeful fantasies

promoted by a

> hoard of " useful idiots " who are promised " pie in the sky " if they

follow

> the rules and regulations of that particular religion. And like

other

> pyramid hoaxes the suckers are generally promised extra bonus for

each new

> sucker they enrol. The real catch is that the total bonus will only

be

> available after the death of the proselyte,

>

> Big Deal! The only guaranteed profiteers are the top guns and

guru's

> running the hoax, who are here and now skimming the cream rather

than being

> stupid enough to set their personal hopes to any after departure

reward.

>

> I am not saying that eternity does not hold a lot of life and joy

for us -

> but why wait until we are squeezed out of physical life. Eternity

touches

> time in every single NOW.

>

> If you bother to read the manual, you will realize that we can

partake of

> the New Jerusalem already now. The precondition is still that we

must be

> dead first. But we are cordially invited to partake in the death

of the

> Anointed one.

>

> Ro 6:2 God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any

longer

> therein?

> Ro 6:7 For he that is dead is freed from sin.

> Ro 6:11 Likewise reckon ye also yourselves to be dead indeed unto

sin, but

> alive unto God through Jesus Christ our Lord.

>

> Yeshua said and is still saying: " The time is fulfilled, and the

kingdom of

> God is at hand: repent ye, and believe the good news ! " Mr 1:15

>

> Thanx a lot

>

> from

> Carl Sukkot

>

[Guest guest]

" Mmmmmmmm bit wary of responding to what could be deemed as a

religious post in here, as often discussing such can sometimes become

quite heated - however, here goes. "

Recall, please, that we recently had members dicsussing the

construct of the Torah and other Jewish texts.

Religion is an acceptable topic provided it does not degenerate into

a " my religion is better than yours " discussion.

For those interested in discussing purely Christian issues with

other Christians, you may also go to:

TheChristianAspieForum/

For a discussion on spirituality in general, Inger's forum is a

viable alternative:

SpiritualAspie/

Tom

Administrator

[Guest guest]

I believe we have an inner compass. I like to use mine and be

respectful of people that are respectful. The core of any belief is

the individual. We decide what is good based on our information

experience and current frame of reference. I cannot act in any way but

individual. Choice dictates all action. If one chooses to allow other

to choose while it may be regretable it is a choice and one we will

have to accept responsibility for. As long as you are willing to

accept the responsibility of your choices. THat is what truly makes me

cautious.

My old boss used to say, If you want to kill someone, turn the gun on

yourself first, if there is anything left after you do that, go for it.

That is an extream example but for me it means that if I involve

another person I accept the responsibility of that other or group of

others wether they do or not is not my focus. I must remain true to my

programming (he he programming)

[Guest guest]

> Religions of whichever kind are nothing but hopeful fantasies

promoted by a

> hoard of " useful idiots " who are promised " pie in the sky " if they

follow

> the rules and regulations of that particular religion.

All belief systems about God and death are religions. That is what

religions are.

I have often encountered the argument that a person's own belief

system is not a religion, it's only all the others that are

religions. I don't buy that, it changes the meaning of a word.

> I am not saying that eternity does not hold a lot of life and joy

for us -

> but why wait until we are squeezed out of physical life. Eternity

touches

> time in every single NOW.

>

> If you bother to read the manual,

Am I right in guessing that The Manual is one particular book,

believe by some to be The Manual while others believe with equal

certainty that any of several other books are The Manual instead?

[Guest guest]

> Religions of whichever kind are nothing but hopeful fantasies

promoted by a

> hoard of " useful idiots " who are promised " pie in the sky " if they

follow

> the rules and regulations of that particular religion.

All belief systems about God and death are religions. That is what

religions are.

I have often encountered the argument that a person's own belief

system is not a religion, it's only all the others that are

religions. I don't buy that, it changes the meaning of a word.

> I am not saying that eternity does not hold a lot of life and joy

for us -

> but why wait until we are squeezed out of physical life. Eternity

touches

> time in every single NOW.

>

> If you bother to read the manual,

Am I right in guessing that The Manual is one particular book,

believe by some to be The Manual while others believe with equal

certainty that any of several other books are The Manual instead?

[Guest guest]

Hi, Mimi,

I agree about that inner compass - also labeled " conscience "

if it is undamaged we get along with it through intuition pretty well.

What I warn about is groups, gangs, societies, who profess to " know "

what is good for you and others better than your conscience.

So they actually promise to relieve you of your difficult choice by

overriding your conscience and replace it with the groups set of rules.

this is indeed a very damaging " help " because the persons consciense

turns atrophic and does not work any more.

This is sadly a fact for any ism: Humanism, Democracism, Catholicism,

sciencism or whatever.

The overriding of our moral and ethical conscience is not limited to

so called religions, but it is rampant in any group political or

ideological.

The ultimate goal for any true person is to be able to discern good

from evil - truth from error - independent of any group.

Our conscience however is not infallible. Like a compass may be

influenced by an unequal distribution of magnetic material in the

vicinity our conscience is easily influenced by " other matters " .

So any conscience needs a calibration according to " true north "

Scribe

>

> I believe we have an inner compass. I like to use mine and be

> respectful of people that are respectful. The core of any belief is

> the individual. We decide what is good based on our information

> experience and current frame of reference. I cannot act in any way but

> individual. Choice dictates all action. If one chooses to allow other

> to choose while it may be regretable it is a choice and one we will

> have to accept responsibility for. As long as you are willing to

> accept the responsibility of your choices. THat is what truly makes me

> cautious.

>

> My old boss used to say, If you want to kill someone, turn the gun on

> yourself first, if there is anything left after you do that, go for it.

>

> That is an extream example but for me it means that if I involve

> another person I accept the responsibility of that other or group of

> others wether they do or not is not my focus. I must remain true to my

> programming (he he programming)

>

[Guest guest]

Hi, Mimi,

I agree about that inner compass - also labeled " conscience "

if it is undamaged we get along with it through intuition pretty well.

What I warn about is groups, gangs, societies, who profess to " know "

what is good for you and others better than your conscience.

So they actually promise to relieve you of your difficult choice by

overriding your conscience and replace it with the groups set of rules.

this is indeed a very damaging " help " because the persons consciense

turns atrophic and does not work any more.

This is sadly a fact for any ism: Humanism, Democracism, Catholicism,

sciencism or whatever.

The overriding of our moral and ethical conscience is not limited to

so called religions, but it is rampant in any group political or

ideological.

The ultimate goal for any true person is to be able to discern good

from evil - truth from error - independent of any group.

Our conscience however is not infallible. Like a compass may be

influenced by an unequal distribution of magnetic material in the

vicinity our conscience is easily influenced by " other matters " .

So any conscience needs a calibration according to " true north "

Scribe

>

> I believe we have an inner compass. I like to use mine and be

> respectful of people that are respectful. The core of any belief is

> the individual. We decide what is good based on our information

> experience and current frame of reference. I cannot act in any way but

> individual. Choice dictates all action. If one chooses to allow other

> to choose while it may be regretable it is a choice and one we will

> have to accept responsibility for. As long as you are willing to

> accept the responsibility of your choices. THat is what truly makes me

> cautious.

>

> My old boss used to say, If you want to kill someone, turn the gun on

> yourself first, if there is anything left after you do that, go for it.

>

> That is an extream example but for me it means that if I involve

> another person I accept the responsibility of that other or group of

> others wether they do or not is not my focus. I must remain true to my

> programming (he he programming)

>

[Guest guest]

>

> Hi, Mimi,

>

> I agree about that inner compass - also labeled " conscience "

> if it is undamaged we get along with it through intuition pretty well.

>

> What I warn about is groups, gangs, societies, who profess to " know "

> what is good for you and others better than your conscience.

> So they actually promise to relieve you of your difficult choice by

> overriding your conscience and replace it with the groups set of

rules.

>

Our conscience however is not infallible. Like a compass may be

influenced by an unequal distribution of magnetic material in the

vicinity our conscience is easily influenced by " other matters " .

So any conscience needs a calibration according to " true north "

hypocrisy and self delusion are all in the variables. anyone who

professes to be the alpha and omega is lost. Willing it to be so by

popular opinion. Desperation cloying for notice. NO THANKS I found

it repulisive when men would try to entice me with things. Telling me

about their available funds, their ability to make me happy. I am the

only person who can do that. I may enjoy anothers company but I choose

to be happy. I haven't always chosen well. Even when I have been

lucky I had no idea what to do with a well grounded person. We are the

sum total of experience and consciousness. even when we are

unconscious (couldn't resist) It is safer in the created world where

everyone is good/redeemable. when everyone tries to be aware that they

share instead of own. sigh Happy valentines day mimi

[Guest guest]

"By using a different word for their belief system: "Science" they arrogantly lift themselves above such simpletons as those who believe in a transcendent intelligence. Relabeling their faith as "knowledge" they vainly think that they have elevated themselves above "religion"."

Tom says:

I've always felt that science merely proves religion.

At present, science tells us that the chemical makeup of the human body is as follows: http://chemistry.about.com/cs/howthingswork/f/blbodyelements.htm

Q. What Are the Elements in the Human Body?

A. Most of the human body is made up of water, H2O, with cells consisting of 65-90% water by weight. Therefore, it isn't surprising that most of a human body's mass is oxygen. Carbon, the basic unit for organic molecules, comes in second. 99% of the mass of the human body is made up of just six elements: oxygen, carbon, hydrogen, nitrogen, calcium, and phosphorus.

Oxygen (65%) Carbon (18%) Hydrogen (10%) Nitrogen (3%) Calcium (1.5%) Phosphorus (1.0%) Potassium (0.35%) Sulfur (0.25%) Sodium (0.15%) Magnesium (0.05%) Copper, Zinc, Selenium, Molybdenum, Fluorine, Chlorine, Iodine, Manganese, Cobalt, Iron (0.70%)

Lithium, Strontium, Aluminum, Silicon, Lead, Vanadium, Arsenic, Bromine (trace amounts)

Reference: H. A. Harper, V. W. Rodwell, P. A. Mayes, Review of Physiological Chemistry, 16th ed., Lange Medical Publications, Los Altos, California 1977.

This jives with the following Biblical passage:

Gen 2:7 And the LORD God formed man [of] the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.

TomAdministrator

[Guest guest]

I've been told that early on during the days of natural philosophy, before it was even called science, theologians argued that there were in effect two "Bibles"- The written one and the one G-d wrote when he created the world. And that since both were "true", one way to resolve conflicts about how to interpret the written bible was to investigae the other "book" that was the creation of the world. Heph environmental1st2003 <no_reply > wrote: "By using a different word for their belief system: "Science" they arrogantly lift themselves above such simpletons as those who believe in a transcendent intelligence. Relabeling their faith as "knowledge" they vainly think that they have elevated themselves above "religion"." Tom says: I've always felt that science merely proves religion. At present, science tells us that the chemical makeup of the human body is as follows: http://chemistry.about.com/cs/howthingswork/f/blbodyelements.htm Q. What Are the

Elements in the Human Body? A. Most of the human body is made up of water, H2O, with cells consisting of 65-90% water by weight. Therefore, it isn't surprising that most of a human body's mass is oxygen. Carbon, the basic unit for organic molecules, comes in second. 99% of the mass of the human body is made up of just six elements: oxygen, carbon, hydrogen, nitrogen, calcium, and phosphorus. Oxygen (65%) Carbon (18%) Hydrogen (10%) Nitrogen (3%) Calcium (1.5%) Phosphorus (1.0%) Potassium (0.35%) Sulfur (0.25%) Sodium (0.15%) Magnesium (0.05%) Copper, Zinc, Selenium, Molybdenum, Fluorine, Chlorine, Iodine, Manganese, Cobalt, Iron (0.70%) Lithium, Strontium, Aluminum, Silicon, Lead, Vanadium, Arsenic, Bromine (trace amounts) Reference: H. A. Harper, V. W. Rodwell, P. A. Mayes,

Review of Physiological Chemistry, 16th ed., Lange Medical Publications, Los Altos, California 1977. This jives with the following Biblical passage: Gen 2:7 And the LORD God formed man [of] the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul. TomAdministrator Hephaestus

Clubfoothttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hephaestushttp://www.pantheon.org/articles/h/hephaestus.htmlhttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kabeiroi

Any questions? Get answers on any topic at Answers. Try it now.

[Guest guest]

Hi, Hephaestus, What you have been told is almost true. In case of apparent conflicts in the written Torah it is a bit hard to read the unwritten one. The better solution is to consult the author of both books.What G-d really wants and offers is a person to person relationship with each of his creatures. The only thing that can hamper or disable this relationship is called "sin" .Human beings are the only beings who are able to sin, we have all sinned and lost the connection Whereas all other creatures live in a simple and constant experience of His presence.Religions of all kinds are mans attempts to repair this broken relation. Religions basically are a set of rules and regulations purposely able to bridge the gap between man and G-d. I have tried quite a number of these bridges. Some more far reaching than others - but none of them reaching unto the other bank. You might think that the longer the bridge - the better the religion. But look at it this way: The longer a blind alley - the worse. You waste more energy and time the longer the blind alley is.You might also use the picture of a ladder: If you place a ladder on the ground and keep on prolonging it further and further to reach the sky. The longer it grows the more unstable it gets and the harder you fall, when it collapses. If the ladder is lowered from above and fixed up there it cannot topple.Thanx a lotfromCarl Sukkot------------------------------------------------------------------Re: Is there a life before death? was: Safety in numbersPosted by: "Hephaestus Clubfoot" lemnosforge@...Mon Feb 19, 2007 9:14 am (PST)I've been told that early on during the days of natural philosophy, before it was even called science, theologians argued that there were in effect two "Bibles"- The written one and the one G-d wrote when he created the world. And that since both were "true", one way to resolve conflicts about how to interpret the written bible was to investigae the other "book" that was the creation of the world.Heph