Re: Alternative Methods?

[Guest guest]

Well it's a series of monopolar connections with linked references I suppose.On Fri, Apr 6, 2012 at 9:23 PM, devidasbhonde <devidasbhonde@...> wrote:

 

, Thanks for coming in,

Montage has to be either monopolar or bipolar. To me it seems mono.

How many active channels, does Les use ? can you say ?

Oh. My current eeg has only two. I am planning for many more...

Regards,

Devidas

>

> > **

[Guest guest]

,Thank you so much for the information and sharing my email with your acquaintance with the prototype designs I would love to hear more.  It's too bad about the QDS photostim I was really excited about the idea of setting up a Fehmi like situation with my Excalibur but hopefully there will be other means.

DZOn Fri, Apr 6, 2012 at 9:55 PM, <gmartin@...> wrote:

 

,Unfortunately the QDS photostim is no longer available.  Lack of interest/low sales were the problem.The EEG driven Roshi is also out of production.The Spectra glasses are used eyes open for the attention flicker   It works much like Swingle's attend audio files, reducing theta.  Another setting can be used eyes closed and that is how I have used it.  It sweeps from one eye to another.  It does quite well at reducing anxiety for some people.

As far as I know there is only one system out there that does eeg driven stimulation.  That is the Mind Workstation by Transparent Corporation.I have never used any of the AVE units from Photosonix or the DAVID units so I can't comment on how they would suit your purposes.

I have been in communication with another person who has some prototype designs he uses for synchrony with BioEra and BioExplorer.  He has some really creative routines.  I'll share your email with him.

On Apr 6, 2012, at 1:53 PM, Zumbach wrote:

,If you were to recommend a photo-stim device which would you recommend?  I can't find the QDS photo-stim for sale anywhere, I have an Excalibur so I assume I would need to have that in order to have the photo stimulation tied to particular EEG events (synchrony).  The Roshi is constant photo stimulation correct?  The spectra glasses are fairly cheap but I can't tell if they are really supposed to cause the same effect as the other strobes as they are marketed as having a variety of different uses... and it says that they are to be used with eyes open too which is really confusing to me.  To me the whole point of the photo stimulation is to trick the occipital regions into entering synchrony and then to get the rest of the brain to follow suit, not to just have lights blinking while reading a book or something.

I really focus all of my efforts on trying to teach people attention training/meditation through different alpha synchrony feedback setups and I really think that some sort of photo-stim product would drastically improve results.

Thanks for any help sussing out the various products. ZOn Wed, Apr 4, 2012 at 10:26 PM,  <gmartin@...> wrote:

 ,I was able to attend a open focus workshop at iSNR a few years ago and had a session with the Training and Photic stim. The session was not really long but the post session effects were very pleasing.  At that time, if I remember right, the light strobed at 10 hz.  He has created special analogue filters for his setup.  I think the timing he uses on the flashes, delay, is really an important part of the his training approach.

I remember the first time I had a Roshi session iSNR I had lasting effect for two or so days,It would be interesting to investigate the effects of his photic feedback.

I have used the Roshi (not pRoshi), QDS photostim and the Spectra glasses from Sound Health Products (affiliated with Swingles clinic)  All have had beneficial results with clients, and I have liked (and continue to use) them myself.

On Apr 4, 2012, at 9:47 PM, Zumbach wrote:

,Thank you for the information!  I think it may interest everyone reading this thread to know that Les Fehmi has embedded a form of " photic stimulation " into his stand-alone EEG that he sells.  It is a box with a built in strobe, sensitivity knobs (for delay on feedback as well as sensitivity in micro-volts, as it uses a summed amplitude measure to detect synchrony), and a saline nylon head strap setup for OZ, CZ, FPZ, T3, and T4.  Interesting right?

I have been training synchrony with a similar setup but sans the strobe light feature and I have to say that when I finally had to chance to experience an hour long session with the photic stimulation the difference was amazingly apparent for several days following (though with strongly diminished effects on day 2).  For clarification the strobe is pointed right at your eyes during the session and you have your eyes shut.

I'm wondering now what pulse rate, pattern, or deliberate lack of pattern Fehmi decided to use in his form of photic stimulation....Any thoughts about what I have written would be greatly appreciated.

ZumbachOn Thu, Apr 5, 2012 at 3:20 AM,  <gmartin@...> wrote:

 ,Photic stimulation has broader effects than just the posterior portions of the brain.  A presentation several years ago showed increased perfusion in the frontal lobes after 10 hz photic stim.  Similar results have been seen with the Roshi.  Chuck has a session graph of HEG measures before and during a Roshi session and it shows marked increases in perfusion,  

The occipital may be the primary receptor for visual stimulus but the the networked effects are quite robust.

On Apr 4, 2012, at 6:52 PM, Zumbach wrote:

Pete,Thank you for coming to the same conclusion!  When I read that I was like " they figured out how to trick the brain into " open focus " before Les Fehmi even knew what alpha synchrony was! "  Of course it appears that they only did it in the occipital which makes sense since it's our optic center.

Correct me if I'm wrong but isn't this the logic behind the Roshi products I've seen around?  (glasses with flashing LEDs? " ) Zumbach

On Wed, Apr 4, 2012 at 8:36 PM, pvdtlc <pvdtlc@...> wrote:

 ,Ah, thank god for researchers.  Because alpha is largest in the posterior brain, it is related to visual processing.  What these guys showed, without quite saying so, 40 years ago is that what Les Fehmi calls " open focus awareness " (no visual fixation, in their terms) produces synchronous alpha.  When you close focus, which is a beta state, alpha goes away and it becomes desynchronized.

Thanks,Pete-- Van Deusenpvdtlc@...http://www.brain-trainer.com

USA 678 224 5895BR 47 3346 6235The Learning Curve, Inc.On Wed, Apr 4, 2012 at 3:39 PM, Zumbach <zumbach@...> wrote:

 [Attachment(s) from Zumbach included below]

Checkout this study, I think it may be of interest. ZOn Wed, Apr 4, 2012 at 7:12 AM, duquesne97217 <ryon@...> wrote:

 In my quest for theta, I found that binaural beats is/are

totally ineffectual with me but that on occasion, the strobe testpart of EEG exams has put in me in both alpha and theta states lasting up to 48 hours; the first time at 8 Hz and once again at4 Hz. I had heard that it was possible but I hav to say that I

was amazed that I could walk around on the dge of delta for nearlytwo days and still be awake and fully conscious.Th " problem " is that such entrainment was unpredictable: the strobedidn't always produce an effect, and when it did, it was at a

purely random frequency but there were also times when that samestrobe test produced no effects at all. While in some ways better than biofeedback, there are some bigflaws associated with this kind of visual entrainment. Does

anyone here have any ideas on how to get reliable results fromthis technique to get the brain wave frequncy that I want; I've tried using a small strobe light but got nothing but a headache.

Ron____________ " Some success, some failure; but either way the gnawing hunger to know is never sated, and the road to the Unknown continues to be dark and strange. "  –– Control Voice (The Outer Limits) ––

[Guest guest]

Uwe,I'm going to have to do some reading about the DAVID and the Photosonix products that are out there, they seem to be the best route for tricking the occipital region to do what I want since there don't appear to be any products that can actually connect to an EEG unit.  I see that the pRoshi is still for sale out there but the price point is quite a bit higher on it.  

So you are saying that the DAVID has only white LEDs?  Why is this a problem?Thanks for your help, ZOn Sat, Apr 7, 2012 at 12:46 AM, <uwegerlach@...> wrote:

 

,

I´m one of the most experienced AVE specialists in Europe. I was a dealer of Photosonix. The " Innerpulse " is a device I can recommend. If the fixed programs are not suited enough for your goals, you can make your own ones. The DAVID devices certainly are of similar quality. As I know those only have white LED`s in the glasses, that`s a point of critics. Another splendid technique are Audiostrobe devices together with the software " Mindexplorer " . The latter are my favourites today.

Uwe

[Guest guest]

Wow Pete awesome information!I find it fascinating that some folks appear to have actually seen that it isn't the light at all causing the desired effect but electromagnetic pulses!  Les Fehmi certainly uses sound, he just uses sound and a pulsing strobe light that hits your closed eyelids with a reasonable intensity.  

Are you saying that Len Ochs sells a machine that sends electromagnetic pulses to a user's scalp when they hit a benchmark, such as synchrony, on their EEG reading?  If so this is quite a big deal.  The original ROSHI sounds like an amazing product as well, too bad I appear to have missed the boat on a lot of these products.  

When I first heard about binaural beats I had some serious doubts about whether or not auditory input could push some region of the brain into a particular type of neuronal activity and tried looking up some scientific evidence to back this notion up.  I found nothing at all.  What region of the brain is supposed to be effected by this process?  I agree that it seems to be the same concept of entrainment as the Lehtonen study except for with the ears instead of the eyes but as far as I can tell there is no evidence to back it up... what is your opinion about this, why are you confident enough about it to put it in your designs?

Thanks for your input Pete, DZOn Sat, Apr 7, 2012 at 7:32 AM, pvdtlc <pvdtlc@...> wrote:

 

It may be worth mentioning here that this kind of brain driving can be done with sound (binaural beats) or light.  In my experience, the audio is not as insistent as the light.  Len Ochs' experience with visual entrainment suggests that it is crucial to use setups (if you choose light) with the ability to turn the light intensity way down.  In fact, in his device prior to the current LENS machine, he ended up putting black electrician's tape over the eye holes on the glasses so the light couldn't be seen at all and claimed that many of his clients got improved results, leading him to decide it was the (theoretically imperceptible) electromagnetic pulses, not the light, that was effective in entraining the brain.  Hence, the LENS unit doesn't use light at all; rather it sends a tiny pulse back down the same electrode from which the EEG signal was gathered.  Chuck ' p_ROSHI also has a pulse mode that many trainers prefer.   Swingle uses sound, and I thought Les did as well.

It's also worth mentioning that both the LENS and the original ROSHI based their pulses on current EEG reading.We have long included binaural beats in many of the TLC designs in the design package, and the current package has built in to the Options protocols " sweeping " .  When the peak frequency of the EEG is below a certain point, the binarual beats add to the existing peak frequency and provide a pulse rate just above it, theoretically coaxing it up.  When the peak frequency is above a certain point the beat rate is reduced just below the existing frequency, coaxing it down.  In short, the beats are set up to sweep the EEG up or down into a band between 6 and14 Hz (that's from memory, but it's close).  If the peak frequency is already IN that range, then there are  no beats at all.

It's possible to use these beats in BioExplorer to drive glasses ( or Uwe can probably explain how that is done, since I'm not a fan of the glasses, though I've used a variety of them over the years)..

In other designs, like AlphaUp or Alpha Theta, there are binaural beats set at the appropriate frequenct (10 Hz or 7 Hz in those two cases).  Pete

-- Van Deusen

pvdtlc@...http://www.brain-trainer.comUSA 678 224 5895

BR 47 3346 6235The Learning Curve, Inc.

On Fri, Apr 6, 2012 at 8:46 PM, <uwegerlach@...> wrote:

 

,

I´m one of the most experienced AVE specialists in Europe. I was a dealer of Photosonix. The " Innerpulse " is a device I can recommend. If the fixed programs are not suited enough for your goals, you can make your own ones. The DAVID devices certainly are of similar quality. As I know those only have white LED`s in the glasses, that`s a point of critics. Another splendid technique are Audiostrobe devices together with the software " Mindexplorer " . The latter are my favourites today.

Uwe

[Guest guest]

,I completely agree with your assessment of the situation.  It is the practice of meditation and while the technology can make learning how to do it much more straightforward it cannot give it to your for free.  One must learn over time how to access this state and practice it regularly just as one must continue to run in order to maintain cardiovascular fitness.  It is my opinion that there will never be an easy one step meditation, or " flow " , button that will allow people to just turn it on without having spent years practicing the exercise with passionate intent.  

It is worth noting that the US military is trying to create an " instant on " for the flow state: 

http://www.newscientist.com/article/mg21328501.600-zap-your-brain-into-the-zone-fast-track-to-pure-focus.html?full=true 

From the article:

....even neurofeedback has a catch. It takes time and effort to produce really thrumming alpha waves. Just when I thought I had achieved them, they evaporated and I lost my concentration. Might there be a faster way to force my brain into flow? The good news is that there, too, the answer appears to be yes. 

Their approach is what I believe to be Len Och's strategy of shocking the brain into the state with micro currents, but as I stated before I believe this to be the wrong approach for long term flexibility of the attention.  I believe that the 10,000 hour rule applies to meditation/flow state, it is too subtle of an art for there to be such a simple shortcut.  How can shocking the brain into the desired state ever teach you how to access it at will?  

ZOn Sat, Apr 7, 2012 at 6:31 PM, <gmartin@...> wrote:

 

,

I agree with your assessment of permanence. The relief of symptoms and increase in function lasts.

In the context of the ongoing discussion relating to alpha and theta states I have to say that permanence is a whole different issue. AT training or alpha, alpha sync training are helpful and long lasting as clinical interventions, They may not be helpful in readily accessing the desired " altered " state.

This seems to me to be a use of NFB or BFB to attain a meditative or hypnotic state. Wanting NFB to be a permanent means of doing this seems to me to be akin to learning to meditate, doing so for a short time, then wanting the effects to persist with no further meditation. It is called the practice of meditation for a reason.

On Apr 7, 2012, at 12:04 PM, <jorge.alvoeiro@...> wrote:

> Hi,

>

> This has been a very interesting exchange of information.

>

> I thought to come in here because the comment made below, which it says that the BF/NF process

> is not permanent. I have to say that my own experience says otherwise as I have clients which come

> once a year after receiving NF 4 years ago (they want a checkup), and the EEG pattern is very much

> the same. In fact it has to stay permanent because if we are our brain, changing the way the brain works

> will change our behaviour. Therefore if we change our behaviour the brain just carry on doing the sort

> of activity related to the type of behaviour.we do after the NF/BF interventions and does not go back.

>

> For instances, training someone for ADHD will increase the span/time of attention that person was doing

> before the interventions. This new activity will make the person to spend more time reading and other

> cognitive behaviours which in term will make the brain to maintain the level of cognitive activity is now

> doing and so does not go back to what it did before the NF.

>

> Bye for now,

>

> -----

> Alvoeiro,Ph.D.(Hull,UK),C.Psychol.(BPS,UK)

> 2000-119 Santarem,

> Portugal

> E-mail: jorge.alvoeiro@...

> http://jorge0alvoeiro.no.sapo.pt/

>

>

> ________________________________

>

> De: em nome de duquesne97217

> Enviada: sáb 07-04-2012 02:51

> Para:

> Assunto: Re: Alternative Methods?

>

>

>

>

>

>

>>

>> And can you say something about the electrode placements, had mentioned ?

>>

>> Which one is most likely to be ground C3 or FPz ?

>> And Bipolar or monopolar ?

>>

>> Could they be comparing Bipolar (Oz with FPz) And (T3 with T4) ?

>>

>> Or monopolar ? (so many possibilities)

>>

>> All looking very interesting.

>>

>> This set up sounds like a happiness charm :-)

>

> The problem with biofedback is that it's effects are far from permanent; you can eventually get the theta (or alpha) state you might want but you have to keep at it day after day or you lose it.

> Bummer.

> ____________

>

>

>

>

> ------------------------------------

>

>

[Guest guest]

Hi,

The article pointed out below, writes about the use of tDCS as the " zapping "

method. In fact the

new one, tACS (which the brain system does) is better, as it forces the

brain to " work "

at the frequency one wants it to work, whereas the tDCS does not modulate the

brain.

I use the tACS for brain rehab. after stroke or brain trauma and it works, that

is, it activates the area

of the brain one wants to activate. But, at the same time one does this, there

is a physiotherapist

working the parts of the body which are slow or have dificulty in responding.

This way the muscles

and the limbs start responding. In fact, the physiotherapist now only starts

working with the client

about 3 minutes after activating the brain with the tACS. Also, there is some

work which shows

that the tACS make the body to produce endorphins, something to think about in

relation to

pain control.

Bye for now,

-----

Alvoeiro,Ph.D.(Hull,UK),C.Psychol.(BPS,UK)

2000-119 Santarem,

Portugal

E-mail: jorge.alvoeiro@...

http://jorge0alvoeiro.no.sapo.pt/

________________________________

De: em nome de Zumbach

Enviada: sáb 07-04-2012 19:25

Para:

Assunto: Re: Re: Alternative Methods?

,

I completely agree with your assessment of the situation. It is the practice of

meditation and while the technology can make learning how to do it much more

straightforward it cannot give it to your for free. One must learn over time

how to access this state and practice it regularly just as one must continue to

run in order to maintain cardiovascular fitness. It is my opinion that there

will never be an easy one step meditation, or " flow " , button that will allow

people to just turn it on without having spent years practicing the exercise

with passionate intent.

It is worth noting that the US military is trying to create an " instant on " for

the flow state:

http://www.newscientist.com/article/mg21328501.600-zap-your-brain-into-the-zone-\

fast-track-to-pure-focus.html?full=true

From the article:

...even neurofeedback has a catch. It takes time and effort to produce really

thrumming alpha waves. Just when I thought I had achieved them, they evaporated

and I lost my concentration. Might there be a faster way to force my brain into

flow? The good news is that there, too, the answer appears to be yes.

Their approach is what I believe to be Len Och's strategy of shocking the brain

into the state with micro currents, but as I stated before I believe this to be

the wrong approach for long term flexibility of the attention. I believe that

the 10,000 hour rule applies to meditation/flow state, it is too subtle of an

art for there to be such a simple shortcut. How can shocking the brain into the

desired state ever teach you how to access it at will?

Z

On Sat, Apr 7, 2012 at 6:31 PM, <gmartin@...> wrote:

,

I agree with your assessment of permanence. The relief of symptoms and increase

in function lasts.

In the context of the ongoing discussion relating to alpha and theta states I

have to say that permanence is a whole different issue. AT training or alpha,

alpha sync training are helpful and long lasting as clinical interventions, They

may not be helpful in readily accessing the desired " altered " state.

This seems to me to be a use of NFB or BFB to attain a meditative or hypnotic

state. Wanting NFB to be a permanent means of doing this seems to me to be akin

to learning to meditate, doing so for a short time, then wanting the effects to

persist with no further meditation. It is called the practice of meditation for

a reason.

On Apr 7, 2012, at 12:04 PM, <jorge.alvoeiro@...

<mailto:jorge.alvoeiro%40vodafone.pt> > wrote:

> Hi,

>

> This has been a very interesting exchange of information.

>

> I thought to come in here because the comment made below, which it says that

the BF/NF process

> is not permanent. I have to say that my own experience says otherwise as I

have clients which come

> once a year after receiving NF 4 years ago (they want a checkup), and the EEG

pattern is very much

> the same. In fact it has to stay permanent because if we are our brain,

changing the way the brain works

> will change our behaviour. Therefore if we change our behaviour the brain

just carry on doing the sort

> of activity related to the type of behaviour.we do after the NF/BF

interventions and does not go back.

>

> For instances, training someone for ADHD will increase the span/time of

attention that person was doing

> before the interventions. This new activity will make the person to spend

more time reading and other

> cognitive behaviours which in term will make the brain to maintain the level

of cognitive activity is now

> doing and so does not go back to what it did before the NF.

>

> Bye for now,

>

> -----

> Alvoeiro,Ph.D.(Hull,UK),C.Psychol.(BPS,UK)

> 2000-119 Santarem,

> Portugal

> E-mail: jorge.alvoeiro@... <mailto:jorge.alvoeiro%40vodafone.pt>

> http://jorge0alvoeiro.no.sapo.pt/

>

>

> ________________________________

>

> De: <mailto:%40> em

nome de duquesne97217

> Enviada: sáb 07-04-2012 02:51

> Para: <mailto:%40>

> Assunto: Re: Alternative Methods?

>

>

>

>

>

>

>>

>> And can you say something about the electrode placements, had

mentioned ?

>>

>> Which one is most likely to be ground C3 or FPz ?

>> And Bipolar or monopolar ?

>>

>> Could they be comparing Bipolar (Oz with FPz) And (T3 with T4) ?

>>

>> Or monopolar ? (so many possibilities)

>>

>> All looking very interesting.

>>

>> This set up sounds like a happiness charm :-)

>

> The problem with biofedback is that it's effects are far from permanent; you

can eventually get the theta (or alpha) state you might want but you have to

keep at it day after day or you lose it.

> Bummer.

> ____________

>

>

>

>

> ------------------------------------

>

>

[Guest guest]

,

if one only has white LED`s one risks to stay on the "soft side" of stimulation and entrainment/disentrainment. Maybe some months after bying the device it goes into the cupboard and stays there. Why? In the beginning there is a slow accomodation process. So, if you like that stimulation, you`ll stay with it lifelongly. It can become a natural drug. After some months you may want to intensify the stimulation. The white light generally is too soft for that. So, if you have a choice between white, red, red-green - these are the most important LED`s - it`s great and you can continue your mind travels on a more intense level. Believe me, I train for myself for more than twenty years. There is no sign of wear using the lights - over the years. There is wear using auditive stimulation. In addition, I`ve seen the reaction of more than thousand applicants in holiday clubs. A big experience and some profound statistics about the use of AVE in the population.

You can add well defined AVE stimulation to Bioexplorer protocols, this technique only works with Audiostrobe AVE systems. For this purpose you must create AVE mp3-files in the software "Mindexplorer". Here you design AVE protocols, save them as wav-files and rip them to mp3. Then you use a well-defined e.g. alpha or alpha-theta protocol in Bioexplorer and add the audioplayer as long as not enough alpha is produced by the client.

Uwe

[Guest guest]

> Their approach is what I believe to be Len Och's strategy of shocking the

> brain into the state with micro currents, but as I stated before I believe

> this to be the wrong approach for long term flexibility of the attention.

The LENS approach uses weak, imperceptible radio waves, with less intensity than

the electrical fields surrounding a digital wristwatch. It has nothing to do

with tDCS or " shocking " the brain.

Chivers

[Guest guest]

I'm in a workshop now, so I didn't have a chance to respond immediately to the comment referenced by and .  I agree that, in my experience, NF does result in lasting changes in very many cases.  I'm not so sure that entrainment processes do the same thing, since they are like trying to learn to drive a car by riding around in the back seat with someone else driving.

Further, the whole idea of trying to get a brain to stay in a state that is not likely to be very functional is problematic for me.The assertion that Jung may have been able to break people's bookcases with his mind may or may not have been true--or particularly valuable unless he was the only carpenter in town--but he wrote stuff and produced pretty organized systems for working with people, etc.--things which are not easily done in delta and theta.

Pete-- Van Deusenpvdtlc@...http://www.brain-trainer.com

USA 678 224 5895BR 47 3346 6235The Learning Curve, Inc.

On Sat, Apr 7, 2012 at 2:31 PM, <gmartin@...> wrote:

 

,

I agree with your assessment of permanence. The relief of symptoms and increase in function lasts.

In the context of the ongoing discussion relating to alpha and theta states I have to say that permanence is a whole different issue. AT training or alpha, alpha sync training are helpful and long lasting as clinical interventions, They may not be helpful in readily accessing the desired " altered " state.

This seems to me to be a use of NFB or BFB to attain a meditative or hypnotic state. Wanting NFB to be a permanent means of doing this seems to me to be akin to learning to meditate, doing so for a short time, then wanting the effects to persist with no further meditation. It is called the practice of meditation for a reason.

On Apr 7, 2012, at 12:04 PM, <jorge.alvoeiro@...> wrote:

> Hi,

>

> This has been a very interesting exchange of information.

>

> I thought to come in here because the comment made below, which it says that the BF/NF process

> is not permanent. I have to say that my own experience says otherwise as I have clients which come

> once a year after receiving NF 4 years ago (they want a checkup), and the EEG pattern is very much

> the same. In fact it has to stay permanent because if we are our brain, changing the way the brain works

> will change our behaviour. Therefore if we change our behaviour the brain just carry on doing the sort

> of activity related to the type of behaviour.we do after the NF/BF interventions and does not go back.

>

> For instances, training someone for ADHD will increase the span/time of attention that person was doing

> before the interventions. This new activity will make the person to spend more time reading and other

> cognitive behaviours which in term will make the brain to maintain the level of cognitive activity is now

> doing and so does not go back to what it did before the NF.

>

> Bye for now,

>

> -----

> Alvoeiro,Ph.D.(Hull,UK),C.Psychol.(BPS,UK)

> 2000-119 Santarem,

> Portugal

> E-mail: jorge.alvoeiro@...

> http://jorge0alvoeiro.no.sapo.pt/

>

>

> ________________________________

>

> De: em nome de duquesne97217

> Enviada: sáb 07-04-2012 02:51

> Para:

> Assunto: Re: Alternative Methods?

>

>

>

>

>

>

>>

>> And can you say something about the electrode placements, had mentioned ?

>>

>> Which one is most likely to be ground C3 or FPz ?

>> And Bipolar or monopolar ?

>>

>> Could they be comparing Bipolar (Oz with FPz) And (T3 with T4) ?

>>

>> Or monopolar ? (so many possibilities)

>>

>> All looking very interesting.

>>

>> This set up sounds like a happiness charm :-)

>

> The problem with biofedback is that it's effects are far from permanent; you can eventually get the theta (or alpha) state you might want but you have to keep at it day after day or you lose it.

> Bummer.

> ____________

>

>

>

>

> ------------------------------------

>

>

[Guest guest]

Uwe,So the idea with the white light being bad is that one can habituate to that one color of stimuli fairly quickly?  It makes sense to me that entrainment in general would have some habituation and subsequently diminishing returns over time and that having more variety built into the system could prolong the novelty/efficacy for the brain.

Thanks for the information! ZOn Sat, Apr 7, 2012 at 9:00 PM, <uwegerlach@...> wrote:

 

,

if one only has white LED`s one risks to stay on the " soft side " of stimulation and entrainment/disentrainment. Maybe some months after bying the device it goes into the cupboard and stays there. Why? In the beginning there is a slow accomodation process. So, if you like that stimulation, you`ll stay with it lifelongly. It can become a natural drug. After some months you may want to intensify the stimulation. The white light generally is too soft for that. So, if you have a choice between white, red, red-green - these are the most important LED`s - it`s great and you can continue your mind travels on a more intense level. Believe me, I train for myself for more than twenty years. There is no sign of wear using the lights - over the years. There is wear using auditive stimulation. In addition, I`ve seen the reaction of more than thousand applicants in holiday clubs. A big experience and some profound statistics about the use of AVE in the population.

You can add well defined AVE stimulation to Bioexplorer protocols, this technique only works with Audiostrobe AVE systems. For this purpose you must create AVE mp3-files in the software " Mindexplorer " . Here you design AVE protocols, save them as wav-files and rip them to mp3. Then you use a well-defined e.g. alpha or alpha-theta protocol in Bioexplorer and add the audioplayer as long as not enough alpha is produced by the client.

Uwe

[Guest guest]

,

I didn`t say "white light being bad". If one likes AVE, one day after some months white light is/may be too soft for further stimulating where one wants to go. Then it`s nice to have additional goggles (red or red/green) which have more power to fulfill the frequency following response.

Uwe

[Guest guest]

Thank you Uwe I misunderstood, makes total sense now.DZOn Mon, Apr 9, 2012 at 11:13 PM, <uwegerlach@...> wrote:

 

,

I didn`t say " white light being bad " . If one likes AVE, one day after some months white light is/may be too soft for further stimulating where one wants to go. Then it`s nice to have additional goggles (red or red/green) which have more power to fulfill the frequency following response.

Uwe

 

[Guest guest]

> The LENS approach uses weak, imperceptible radio waves, with less intensity

than the electrical fields surrounding a digital wristwatch. It has nothing to

do with tDCS or " shocking " the brain.

>

> Chivers

That sounds little or no different from magnetic entrainment, the technique I

originally asked about, that uses a coil to produce

a radiated field of 100 nano-tslas or less. And in fact, the author of the paper

I cited has made his generators in th form of a watch.

Howver, the question still remains, wether with a radiated fild or with the LENS

approach, can a person learn to enter a particular frequency after rpeated use

or is constant use of a device necessary

to maintain a particular frquncy? This topic has come up on one of the

electronic forums (mostly because I designed the field circuitry)and

surprisingly, there is a lot of interest in this area.

Ron