Re: Coaching during training

[Guest guest]

Hi ,

I do coach the person from the first session, and do it doing both things you have pointed out, relaxing

and focus. I use the Infiniti system with the Dupont software which allows us to see how much and how

well the person is doing. This way one can keep two things going like keeping the motivation and

maintain the attention process at top level most of the time. Also, most kids like to know how well they

are doing by saying that they are doing well and so they tend to do the exercises for longer periods of time

and are motivated for carry on. I also do this for adults and they like it as well as. For focus orient to specific

aspects of the moving screen and say how the picture/game is changing and how well s/he is doing.

I have also found that by doing this one tends to get results with every person, as there is a number of

people who cannot become aware of what they are doing and give up very quickly.

Bye for now,

-------Prof.Dr. Alvoeiro,Ph.D.(Hull,UK),C.Psychol.(BPS,UK)

2000-119 Santarem,

Portugal

E-mail: jorge.alvoeiro@...

http://jorge0alvoeiro.no.sapo.pt/

De: ntmccEnviada: ter 2/8/2011 22:24Para: Assunto: Coaching during training

Hi everyone--

I don't think I have posted yet to this list--it has been a great resource for me to read others' threads for a while now. I am relatively new to doing Neurofeedback, and use EEG spectrum's EEGer system most of the time. My question is--how much do you coach your clients while they are actually training? If so, how would you do that, and would you try to coach a specific "feeling state" (like relaxation) or a "task" (like focus)? or do you let the feedback speak for itself?

I have two young clients, both with symptoms of ADD (distractibility, impulsivity, problems with learning). One is a girl, 10 years old, and I am mostly rewarding 15-21, inhibiting theta and high beta at FZ. The other is an 11 year old boy, and he has very high beta (18-25) frontally, so I am inhibiting that and theta, rewarding 8-11 at FZ (both are based on QEEG findings). The problem is, after about 8 sessions each, nothing is moving. We use DVDs, and the picture goes white when brainwaves are not where we want them to be (although they can still see the picture--it is a fine line between not getting too frustrated but also having something to work for). For the boy with high beta, I coach him to relax and focus (like in sports), for the girl, I coach attentiveness.

What do you all do? Any suggestions??? It is getting a little bit frustrating!

Thanks for any help!

------------------------------------

[Guest guest]

Hi , are you using Jon Meadows Beyondvr Stone Soup to run your movies? What I found using EEGer neurocybernetics with Stone Soup was to keep the pciture visable at all times so as not to get the client frustrated and thus raising beta, which we don't want.Personally, I sit clients in their seat, set them up, put on their movie and leave them for their half hour session. I don't sit with them and coach, just tell them to enjoy the movie, see you in half an hour. No interference from me, and Bioexplorer works beautifully with video clips and DVD's to entertain and train their brain.I find that the quality of the feedback is important. If it is boring then you wait for a long time for results, if it is engaging then this speeds it up. Coaching, yes been there done that, not any more it is not necessary unless you still run those boring DOS

games like 'space race'.RegardsNoel EastwoodPsychologist LearnwiseCanberra, AustraliaPh: 02 6162 0914Fax: 02 6162 0915Web: www.learnwiseaustralia.comPsychology, Counselling, Neurofeedback, Fast ForWordBioexplorer Training videos:- Creating your own Basic Protocols in Bioexplorer; Getting Started in Bioexplorer; Running and Screening Your Session in Bioexplorer, Neurofeedback systems.IMPORTANT:This email remains the property of Learnwise and Noel Eastwood Psychology. This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and are intended solely for the use of the intended recipient. If you are not the intended recipient, distribution or reproduction of this email is prohibited. If you have received this email in error, you are requested to contact the sender and delete the email.

[Guest guest]

I also do not coach. I use the DVD on bioexplorer and BX adapter. Connie Re: Coaching during training

Hi , are you using Jon Meadows Beyondvr Stone Soup to run your movies? What I found using EEGer neurocybernetics with Stone Soup was to keep the pciture visable at all times so as not to get the client frustrated and thus raising beta, which we don't want.Personally, I sit clients in their seat, set them up, put on their movie and leave them for their half hour session. I don't sit with them and coach, just tell them to enjoy the movie, see you in half an hour. No interference from me, and Bioexplorer works beautifully with video clips and DVD's to entertain and train their brain.I find that the quality of the feedback is important. If it is boring then you wait for a long time for results, if it is engaging then this speeds it up. Coaching, yes been there done that, not any more it is not necessary unless you still run those boring DOS games like 'space race'.RegardsNoel EastwoodPsychologist LearnwiseCanberra, AustraliaPh: 02 6162 0914Fax: 02 6162 0915Web: www.learnwiseaustralia.comPsychology, Counselling, Neurofeedback, Fast ForWordBioexplorer Training videos:- Creating your own Basic Protocols in Bioexplorer; Getting Started in Bioexplorer; Running and Screening Your Session in Bioexplorer, Neurofeedback systems.

IMPORTANT:This email remains the property of Learnwise and Noel Eastwood Psychology. This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and are intended solely for the use of the intended recipient. If you are not the intended recipient, distribution or reproduction of this email is prohibited. If you have received this email in error, you are requested to contact the sender and delete the email.

A

[Guest guest]

So Connie, the DVD gets brighter/darker and the sound doesn't change? Is it still highly watchable even when threshold is not being met?Liz Margoshes, Ph.D.NY State Licensed PsychologistOn Feb 9, 2011, at 3:53 PM, Connie Welsh <conniewelsh@...> wrote:

I also do not coach. I use the DVD on bioexplorer and BX adapter. Connie Re: Coaching during training

Hi , are you using Jon Meadows Beyondvr Stone Soup to run your movies? What I found using EEGer neurocybernetics with Stone Soup was to keep the pciture visable at all times so as not to get the client frustrated and thus raising beta, which we don't want.Personally, I sit clients in their seat, set them up, put on their movie and leave them for their half hour session. I don't sit with them and coach, just tell them to enjoy the movie, see you in half an hour. No interference from me, and Bioexplorer works beautifully with video clips and DVD's to entertain and train their brain.I find that the quality of the feedback is important. If it is boring then you wait for a long time for results, if it is engaging then this speeds it up. Coaching, yes been there done that, not any more it is not necessary unless you still run those boring DOS games like 'space race'.RegardsNoel EastwoodPsychologist LearnwiseCanberra, AustraliaPh: 02 6162 0914Fax: 02 6162 0915Web: www.learnwiseaustralia.comPsychology, Counselling, Neurofeedback, Fast ForWordBioexplorer Training videos:- Creating your own Basic Protocols in Bioexplorer; Getting Started in Bioexplorer; Running and Screening Your Session in Bioexplorer, Neurofeedback systems.

IMPORTANT:This email remains the property of Learnwise and Noel Eastwood Psychology. This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and are intended solely for the use of the intended recipient. If you are not the intended recipient, distribution or reproduction of this email is prohibited. If you have received this email in error, you are requested to contact the sender and delete the email.

A

[Guest guest]

Hi all and thanks for responses thus far.

EEG spectrum has developed a new program for running DVDs on EEGer so that is

what I use. The picture gets brighter or darker depending on how I set it (I

can choose " Black " or " White " for screen effects), sound stays the same. I can

also alter the timing of change, like how quickly it goes to white/black and how

quickly it goes to normal). My problem is that when it is set to Black and gets

darker, the picture is almost not visible and it gets too frustrating for these

kids in particular, so their attention wanders and they get fidgety (that is

when I start to coach). When I set it to White, the picture is more visible,

and so they are content to keep it there to watch it and their brains don't do

anything to make it change!! That is again where I coach. I also do use those

silly little games at times to " teach " what their brain is supposed to be doing

(keep that middle space ship ahead (reward) the other two spaceships back

(inhibits)) but I really feel like I am doing way too much " work " and these kids

in particular are getting nowhere. It is very frustrating.

How should I go about leaving them with the DVD and not giving any other

instructions if they just are more or less content to watch a white picture on

which they can still see what is happening??

Thanks for any help!!

>

> Hi , are you using Jon Meadows Beyondvr Stone Soup to run your movies?

What I found using EEGer neurocybernetics with Stone Soup was to keep the

pciture visable at all times so as not to get the client frustrated and thus

raising beta, which we don't want.

>

> Personally, I sit clients in their seat, set them up, put on their movie and

leave them for their half hour session. I don't sit with them and coach, just

tell them to enjoy the movie, see you in half an hour. No interference from me,

and Bioexplorer works beautifully with video clips and DVD's to entertain and

train their brain.

>

> I find that the quality of the feedback is important. If it is boring then you

wait for a long time for results, if it is engaging then this speeds it up.

Coaching, yes been there done that, not any more it is not necessary unless you

still run those boring DOS games like 'space race'.

>

> Regards

> Noel Eastwood

> Psychologist

> Learnwise

> Canberra, Australia

> Ph: 02 6162 0914

> Fax: 02 6162 0915

> Web: www.learnwiseaustralia.com

> Psychology, Counselling, Neurofeedback, Fast ForWord

>

> Bioexplorer Training videos:- Creating your own Basic Protocols in

Bioexplorer; Getting Started in Bioexplorer; Running and Screening Your Session

in Bioexplorer, Neurofeedback systems.

>

> IMPORTANT:This email remains the property of Learnwise and Noel Eastwood

Psychology. This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and

are intended solely for the use of the intended recipient. If you are not the

intended recipient, distribution or reproduction of this email is prohibited. If

you have received this email in error, you are requested to contact the sender

and delete the email.

>

[Guest guest]

Hi Amy,

I understand from your e-mail below, you do, sometimes, have to orient/coach

your patients, and

in particular with RAD cases. I found out that as well as and if I leave kids

like yours or some with

ADHD they just do not get what they have to do and start playing or with the

equipment or else

making the body tense in order to see changes on the screen which is not what

one wants. It is also

the difference between having to do 25 or more sessions (which tends to occur

without

coaching/orientation) and 6/7 sessions where, by talking to the person when the

attention goes

away, the training's effect comes back again. This keeps the cognitive process

training at top level

all the time during the whole session. My sessions last for about 60 minutes

(sometimes more) and

by using orientation/coaching the kids (and people) keep doing the exercises

even when using

those " boring " ding/dong feedback signals. Also, I have been doing BF and NF for

about 20 years

and I never had one person giving up because s/he could not get what to do,

which is what some

people, who do BF/NF, have told me already.

But, off course, there is a snag. Perhaps, but using orientation/choacing, one

cannot get as much profit

from the work as one could have when one is with the person all the time. In

fact without

orientation/coaching one can have various pieces of equipment in various rooms

and do many people

at the same time. I prefer quality of BF/NF interventions and my pocket comes

afterwards. Nowadays,

I tend to get cases for NF from people who have already done 25/30 sessions

using the NO

coaching/orientation method without any effects at all, and after the 3

sessions, using

coaching/orientation, see major changes and feel much better (in particular

those who come for

depression).

I do hope you carry your what you are doing because I am sure you are going to

get many more

cases and may not need to do much advertising of your work as most of it is done

by word of mouth.

That is what happens with me.

All the best,

-------

Prof.Dr. Alvoeiro,Ph.D.(Hull,UK),C.Psychol.(BPS,UK)

2000-119 Santarem,

Portugal

E-mail: jorge.alvoeiro@...

http://jorge0alvoeiro.no.sapo.pt/

________________________________

De: em nome de Amy Dotson

Enviada: qui 2/10/2011 20:04

Para:

Assunto: Re: Re: Coaching during training

This is my first time responding to this group. By the way I have enjoyed the

dialogues. I use a different version of the DVD from Spectrum(they don't sell

it anymore) where the screen has lines in it. I primarily work with kids and I

do coach, but to a limit. I emphasize the importance of learning how to breathe

correctly and how that can help you stay relaxed. So if I see they are really

stuck I might say something like remember your breathing, and that gets things

back on track. I also think it's important to explain to them that things in

your brain aren't static, but fluid. This also helps to decrease frustration,

eventually their brains get the message and then they get it. They always have

the option to go to the boring games, but I put a reward of some kind out

there-so many points equals a trip to the box. None of us work for free! I

don't leave any of mine alone with my equipment. I work with some children who

have some pretty severe RAD and they would bend the wires and do who knows what

to my stuff! One opinion in a sea of many-hope that helps!

Amy S. Dotson, MSW, LCSW

Clinical Social Worker

704-516-1168

fax 704-892-0366

This message and attachments included are from Dotson Consulting and Counseling,

Inc. and are for the sole use by the intended recipients. This information

contained herein may include confidential information or priveleged information.

Unauthorized review, forwarding, printing, copying, distributing or using such

information is strictly prohibited and may be unlawful. If you received this

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it, please contact the sender and destroy all copies of the original message.

________________________________

From: ntmcc <nancymccarel@...>

Sent: Thu, February 10, 2011 9:03:12 AM

Subject: Re: Coaching during training

Hi all and thanks for responses thus far.

EEG spectrum has developed a new program for running DVDs on EEGer so that is

what I use. The picture gets brighter or darker depending on how I set it (I can

choose " Black " or " White " for screen effects), sound stays the same. I can also

alter the timing of change, like how quickly it goes to white/black and how

quickly it goes to normal). My problem is that when it is set to Black and gets

darker, the picture is almost not visible and it gets too frustrating for these

kids in particular, so their attention wanders and they get fidgety (that is

when I start to coach). When I set it to White, the picture is more visible, and

so they are content to keep it there to watch it and their brains don't do

anything to make it change!! That is again where I coach. I also do use those

silly little games at times to " teach " what their brain is supposed to be doing

(keep that middle space ship ahead (reward) the other two spaceships back

(inhibits)) but I really feel like I am doing way too much " work " and these kids

in particular are getting nowhere. It is very frustrating.

How should I go about leaving them with the DVD and not giving any other

instructions if they just are more or less content to watch a white picture on

which they can still see what is happening??

Thanks for any help!!

>

> Hi , are you using Jon Meadows Beyondvr Stone Soup to run your movies?

What I found using EEGer neurocybernetics with Stone Soup was to keep the

pciture visable at all times so as not to get the client frustrated and thus

raising beta, which we don't want.

>

> Personally, I sit clients in their seat, set them up, put on their movie and

leave them for their half hour session. I don't sit with them and coach, just

tell them to enjoy the movie, see you in half an hour. No interference from me,

and Bioexplorer works beautifully with video clips and DVD's to entertain and

train their brain.

>

> I find that the quality of the feedback is important. If it is boring then you

wait for a long time for results, if it is engaging then this speeds it up.

Coaching, yes been there done that, not any more it is not necessary unless you

still run those boring DOS games like 'space race'.

>

> Regards

> Noel Eastwood

> Psychologist

> Learnwise

> Canberra, Australia

> Ph: 02 6162 0914

> Fax: 02 6162 0915

> Web: www.learnwiseaustralia.com

> Psychology, Counselling, Neurofeedback, Fast ForWord

>

> Bioexplorer Training videos:- Creating your own Basic Protocols in

Bioexplorer; Getting Started in Bioexplorer; Running and Screening Your Session

in Bioexplorer, Neurofeedback systems.

>

> IMPORTANT:This email remains the property of Learnwise and Noel Eastwood

Psychology. This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and

are intended solely for the use of the intended recipient. If you are not the

intended recipient, distribution or reproduction of this email is prohibited. If

you have received this email in error, you are requested to contact the sender

and delete the email.

>