Re: Pharmaceutical Help for Adult Autism? Done that!

[Guest guest]

Hi,

I used to take daily oxytocin injections for CFS until

a life-threatening side effect required I discontinue.

The side effect was female bleeding. I had been

taking it for a couple years before that happened. A

lighter dosage might not have caused that side effect.

Males I spoke to had muscle cramps in the legs, which

made them discontinue.

It made the difference between feeling and acting alive

compared to feeling and acting not so alive.

At the time I had never heard of Asperger's, nor knew

of it's effect on my family.

Interestingly, I noted that I became much more social, not

only due to feeling much better, but due to having more

assertiveness! I had PTSD at the time. It totally brought

me out of my shell. It also took away a tremor and

extreme weakness I had developed.

I would try intranasal administration of oxytocin in a

heartbeat!

Sandi Harrington

Pharmaceutical Help for Adult Autism?

>

>http://psychcentral.com/news/2006/12/04/pharmaceutical-help-for-

>adult-autism/

>

>Pharmaceutical Help for Adult Autism?

>

>By: Psych Central News Editor

> on Monday, Dec, 4, 2006

>

>Reviewed by: M. Grohol, Psy.D.

> on Monday, Dec, 4, 2006

>

>

>Oxytocin, a hormone best known for activity during birth and

>lactation, is also a brain neurotransmitter involved in social

>recognition and bonding and, according to first round research, may

>have significant positive effects on adult autism patients.

>

>A new study, funded by the Seaver Foundation, examined the effects

>of oxytocin on repetitive behaviors and aspects of social cognition

>in adults with autism. The hormone was administered using

>intravenous fluid and nasal technology to allow better penetration

>of the blood brain barrier, a membrane that serves as a physical

>barrier between the blood vessels and the central nervous system.

>

> " When administered orally, oxytocin is metabolized and only a small

>amount reaches the brain. This is important because the behavioral

>effects of oxytocin are thought to result from its action on the

>brain " , explained investigators Hollander, MD and

>Bartz, PhD.

>

> " Studies with animals have found that oxytocin plays a role in a

>variety of behaviors, including parent-child and adult-to-adult pair

>bonding, social memory, social cognition, anxiety reduction and

>repetitive behaviors, " explained Dr. Bartz.

>

> " However, " adds Dr. Hollander, " we have only recently considered

>that administration of oxytocin can have behavioral effects. Autism

>is a particularly ripe neuropsychiatric disorder for studying this

>approach because it presents with the types of symptoms that have

>been found to be associated with the oxytocin system. "

>

>High-functioning adults with autism or Asperger's disorder received

>an intravenous infusion of pitocin (synthetic oxytocin) or placebo

>(saline solution) over a four-hour period. During that time,

>participants were monitored for repetitive behaviors that are

>hallmarks of autism spectrum disorders including need to tell/ask,

>touching, and repeating. These behaviors were assessed at a baseline

>and throughout the course of the infusion.

>

> " Repetitive behaviors are often overlooked as symptoms of autism in

>favor of more dramatic symptoms like disrupted social functioning, "

>noted Hollander. " However, early repetitive behavior is often the

>best predictor of a later autism diagnosis. "

>The infusion produced results that were both clinically and

>statistically significant. Hollander noted a rapid reduction of

>repetitive behaviors over the course of the oxytocin infusion,

>whereas no such reduction occurred following the placebo infusion,

>suggesting that oxytocin does indeed address these symptoms.

>

>Researchers also looked at the effects of oxytocin on social

>cognition. Autism patients are often unable to detect or read

>emotion in others through facial and voice cues, resulting in the

>decreased ability to have meaningful interactions with others that

>characterizes individuals with this disease.

>

>To test participants' ability to assign affective significance to

>speech, participants listened to pre-recorded sentences with neutral

>semantic content that were presented with different intonations such

>as anger, sadness, or happiness. Participants were asked to identify

>the emotion. Participants received intravenous infusions of pitocin

>(synthetic oxytocin) or placebo (saline solution) over a four-hour

>period; participants then returned approximately two weeks later,

>receiving the alternate compound. Comprehension of affective speech

>was assessed throughout the four-hour infusion on both occasions,

>that is, once with intravenous infusion of oxytocin and once without.

>

>Most interestingly, participants who received oxytocin on the first

>testing day retained the ability to assign affective significance to

>speech, performing above expectations when they returned

>approximately two weeks later. This effect was not found among

>participants who received the placebo on the first testing day.

>

>Hollander and his colleagues are now using nasal technology to study

>the treatment implications of oxytocin in a controlled six week

>trial. " The intranasal administration of oxytocin is important

>because it may allow for better penetration of the blood brain

>barrier, and is easier to administer, " explained Hollander. " When

>administered orally, oxytocin is metabolized and only a small amount

>reaches the brain. This is important because the behavioral effects

>of oxytocin are thought to result from its action on the brain. "

>

>Hollander and his colleagues are among the first group to have used

>intravenous fluid technology and nasal technology to study the

>behavioral effects of oxytocin in autism spectrum disorders. Though

>the findings are promising, Hollander cautions that this research is

>still very preliminary.

>

> " Our findings will need to be replicated in large scale, placebo

>controlled trials to fully explore treatment potential, " said

>Hollander. " And, though both intravenous and intranasal approaches

>have been well tolerated, we need to understand more about the

>safety of these potential treatments, particularly before these

>effects are explored in autistic children. "

[Guest guest]

Hi Sandi,

Nice to see you posting again.

Tom

Administrator

Hi,

I used to take daily oxytocin injections for CFS until

a life-threatening side effect required I discontinue.

The side effect was female bleeding. I had been

taking it for a couple years before that happened. A

lighter dosage might not have caused that side effect.

Males I spoke to had muscle cramps in the legs, which

made them discontinue.

It made the difference between feeling and acting alive

compared to feeling and acting not so alive.

At the time I had never heard of Asperger's, nor knew

of it's effect on my family.

Interestingly, I noted that I became much more social, not

only due to feeling much better, but due to having more

assertiveness! I had PTSD at the time. It totally brought

me out of my shell. It also took away a tremor and

extreme weakness I had developed.

I would try intranasal administration of oxytocin in a

heartbeat!

Sandi Harrington

[Guest guest]

Right on Sandi! I'm glad it's worked out for you. It does sound like a promising treatment. I'd do it but, I'd rather it not take a long time. Maybe there will be an opportunity to try it out sometime. Sandi Harrington <sandiharrington@...> wrote: Hi,I used to take daily oxytocin injections for CFS until a life-threatening side effect required I discontinue. The side effect was female bleeding. I had been taking it for a couple years before that happened. A lighter dosage might not have caused

that side effect. Males I spoke to had muscle cramps in the legs, which made them discontinue.It made the difference between feeling and acting alive compared to feeling and acting not so alive.At the time I had never heard of Asperger's, nor knew of it's effect on my family.Interestingly, I noted that I became much more social, not only due to feeling much better, but due to having more assertiveness! I had PTSD at the time. It totally brought me out of my shell. It also took away a tremor and extreme weakness I had developed.I would try intranasal administration of oxytocin in aheartbeat!Sandi Harrington Pharmaceutical Help for Adult Autism?>>http://psychcentral.com/news/2006/12/04/pharmaceutical-help-for->adult-autism/>>Pharmaceutical Help for Adult Autism?>>By: Psych Central News Editor > on Monday, Dec, 4, 2006>>Reviewed by: M. Grohol, Psy.D. > on Monday, Dec, 4, 2006 > >>Oxytocin, a hormone best known for activity during birth and >lactation, is also a brain neurotransmitter involved in social >recognition and bonding and, according to first round research, may >have significant positive effects on adult autism patients.>>A new study, funded by the Seaver Foundation, examined the effects >of oxytocin

on repetitive behaviors and aspects of social cognition >in adults with autism. The hormone was administered using >intravenous fluid and nasal technology to allow better penetration >of the blood brain barrier, a membrane that serves as a physical >barrier between the blood vessels and the central nervous system.>>"When administered orally, oxytocin is metabolized and only a small >amount reaches the brain. This is important because the behavioral >effects of oxytocin are thought to result from its action on the >brain", explained investigators Hollander, MD and >Bartz, PhD.>>"Studies with animals have found that oxytocin plays a role in a >variety of behaviors, including parent-child and adult-to-adult pair >bonding, social memory, social cognition, anxiety reduction and >repetitive behaviors," explained Dr. Bartz. >>"However," adds Dr.

Hollander, "we have only recently considered >that administration of oxytocin can have behavioral effects. Autism >is a particularly ripe neuropsychiatric disorder for studying this >approach because it presents with the types of symptoms that have >been found to be associated with the oxytocin system." >>High-functioning adults with autism or Asperger's disorder received >an intravenous infusion of pitocin (synthetic oxytocin) or placebo >(saline solution) over a four-hour period. During that time, >participants were monitored for repetitive behaviors that are >hallmarks of autism spectrum disorders including need to tell/ask, >touching, and repeating. These behaviors were assessed at a baseline >and throughout the course of the infusion. >>"Repetitive behaviors are often overlooked as symptoms of autism in >favor of more dramatic symptoms like disrupted social

functioning," >noted Hollander. "However, early repetitive behavior is often the >best predictor of a later autism diagnosis.">The infusion produced results that were both clinically and >statistically significant. Hollander noted a rapid reduction of >repetitive behaviors over the course of the oxytocin infusion, >whereas no such reduction occurred following the placebo infusion, >suggesting that oxytocin does indeed address these symptoms. >>Researchers also looked at the effects of oxytocin on social >cognition. Autism patients are often unable to detect or read >emotion in others through facial and voice cues, resulting in the >decreased ability to have meaningful interactions with others that >characterizes individuals with this disease. >>To test participants' ability to assign affective significance to >speech, participants listened to pre-recorded

sentences with neutral >semantic content that were presented with different intonations such >as anger, sadness, or happiness. Participants were asked to identify >the emotion. Participants received intravenous infusions of pitocin >(synthetic oxytocin) or placebo (saline solution) over a four-hour >period; participants then returned approximately two weeks later, >receiving the alternate compound. Comprehension of affective speech >was assessed throughout the four-hour infusion on both occasions, >that is, once with intravenous infusion of oxytocin and once without.>>Most interestingly, participants who received oxytocin on the first >testing day retained the ability to assign affective significance to >speech, performing above expectations when they returned >approximately two weeks later. This effect was not found among >participants who received the placebo on the first

testing day. >>Hollander and his colleagues are now using nasal technology to study >the treatment implications of oxytocin in a controlled six week >trial. "The intranasal administration of oxytocin is important >because it may allow for better penetration of the blood brain >barrier, and is easier to administer," explained Hollander. "When >administered orally, oxytocin is metabolized and only a small amount >reaches the brain. This is important because the behavioral effects >of oxytocin are thought to result from its action on the brain.">>Hollander and his colleagues are among the first group to have used >intravenous fluid technology and nasal technology to study the >behavioral effects of oxytocin in autism spectrum disorders. Though >the findings are promising, Hollander cautions that this research is >still very preliminary. >>"Our findings will

need to be replicated in large scale, placebo >controlled trials to fully explore treatment potential," said >Hollander. "And, though both intravenous and intranasal approaches >have been well tolerated, we need to understand more about the >safety of these potential treatments, particularly before these >effects are explored in autistic children." __________________________________________________

[Guest guest]

Ecstacy is the only drug I know of which showed specific aide in empathic awareness. However, it does a whole lot more too with massive problems and side effects is an understatement..they need something from here a remote derivitive perhaps?nick <drumthis2001@...> wrote: Right on Sandi! I'm glad it's worked out for you. It does sound like a promising treatment. I'd do it but, I'd rather it not take a long time. Maybe there will be an opportunity to try it out sometime. Sandi Harrington

<sandiharringtonearthlink (DOT) net> wrote: Hi,I used to take daily oxytocin injections for CFS until a life-threatening side effect required I discontinue. The side effect was female bleeding. I had been taking it for a couple years before that happened. A lighter dosage might not have caused that side effect. Males I spoke to had muscle cramps in the legs, which made them discontinue.It made the difference between feeling and acting alive compared to feeling and acting not so alive.At the time I had never heard of Asperger's, nor knew of it's effect on my family.Interestingly, I noted that I became much more social, not only due to feeling much better, but due to having more assertiveness! I had PTSD at the time. It totally brought me out of

my shell. It also took away a tremor and extreme weakness I had developed.I would try intranasal administration of oxytocin in aheartbeat!Sandi Harrington Pharmaceutical Help for Adult Autism?>>http://psychcentral.com/news/2006/12/04/pharmaceutical-help-for->adult-autism/>>Pharmaceutical Help for Adult Autism?>>By: Psych Central News Editor > on Monday, Dec, 4, 2006>>Reviewed by: M. Grohol, Psy.D. > on Monday, Dec, 4, 2006 >

>>Oxytocin, a hormone best known for activity during birth and >lactation, is also a brain neurotransmitter involved in social >recognition and bonding and, according to first round research, may >have significant positive effects on adult autism patients.>>A new study, funded by the Seaver Foundation, examined the effects >of oxytocin on repetitive behaviors and aspects of social cognition >in adults with autism. The hormone was administered using >intravenous fluid and nasal technology to allow better penetration >of the blood brain barrier, a membrane that serves as a physical >barrier between the blood vessels and the central nervous system.>>"When administered orally, oxytocin is metabolized and only a small >amount reaches the brain. This is important because the behavioral >effects of oxytocin are thought to result from its action on the >brain",

explained investigators Hollander, MD and >Bartz, PhD.>>"Studies with animals have found that oxytocin plays a role in a >variety of behaviors, including parent-child and adult-to-adult pair >bonding, social memory, social cognition, anxiety reduction and >repetitive behaviors," explained Dr. Bartz. >>"However," adds Dr. Hollander, "we have only recently considered >that administration of oxytocin can have behavioral effects. Autism >is a particularly ripe neuropsychiatric disorder for studying this >approach because it presents with the types of symptoms that have >been found to be associated with the oxytocin system." >>High-functioning adults with autism or Asperger's disorder received >an intravenous infusion of pitocin (synthetic oxytocin) or placebo >(saline solution) over a four-hour period. During that time, >participants were

monitored for repetitive behaviors that are >hallmarks of autism spectrum disorders including need to tell/ask, >touching, and repeating. These behaviors were assessed at a baseline >and throughout the course of the infusion. >>"Repetitive behaviors are often overlooked as symptoms of autism in >favor of more dramatic symptoms like disrupted social functioning," >noted Hollander. "However, early repetitive behavior is often the >best predictor of a later autism diagnosis.">The infusion produced results that were both clinically and >statistically significant. Hollander noted a rapid reduction of >repetitive behaviors over the course of the oxytocin infusion, >whereas no such reduction occurred following the placebo infusion, >suggesting that oxytocin does indeed address these symptoms. >>Researchers also looked at the effects of oxytocin on social

>cognition. Autism patients are often unable to detect or read >emotion in others through facial and voice cues, resulting in the >decreased ability to have meaningful interactions with others that >characterizes individuals with this disease. >>To test participants' ability to assign affective significance to >speech, participants listened to pre-recorded sentences with neutral >semantic content that were presented with different intonations such >as anger, sadness, or happiness. Participants were asked to identify >the emotion. Participants received intravenous infusions of pitocin >(synthetic oxytocin) or placebo (saline solution) over a four-hour >period; participants then returned approximately two weeks later, >receiving the alternate compound. Comprehension of affective speech >was assessed throughout the four-hour infusion on both occasions, >that is, once with

intravenous infusion of oxytocin and once without.>>Most interestingly, participants who received oxytocin on the first >testing day retained the ability to assign affective significance to >speech, performing above expectations when they returned >approximately two weeks later. This effect was not found among >participants who received the placebo on the first testing day. >>Hollander and his colleagues are now using nasal technology to study >the treatment implications of oxytocin in a controlled six week >trial. "The intranasal administration of oxytocin is important >because it may allow for better penetration of the blood brain >barrier, and is easier to administer," explained Hollander. "When >administered orally, oxytocin is metabolized and only a small amount >reaches the brain. This is important because the behavioral effects >of oxytocin are thought to result

from its action on the brain.">>Hollander and his colleagues are among the first group to have used >intravenous fluid technology and nasal technology to study the >behavioral effects of oxytocin in autism spectrum disorders. Though >the findings are promising, Hollander cautions that this research is >still very preliminary. >>"Our findings will need to be replicated in large scale, placebo >controlled trials to fully explore treatment potential," said >Hollander. "And, though both intravenous and intranasal approaches >have been well tolerated, we need to understand more about the >safety of these potential treatments, particularly before these >effects are explored in autistic children." __________________________________________________

[Guest guest]

>

> Ecstacy is the only drug I know of which showed specific aide in

empathic awareness. However, it does a whole lot more too with massive

problems and side effects is an understatement..they need something

from here a remote derivitive perhaps?

As far as I know, Ecstacy is an illegal drug. Perhaps we should

discontinue this portion of the discussion and stay on track with

discussion of legal drugs. Just a thought.

Raven

[Guest guest]

" Ecstacy is the only drug I know of which showed specific aide in

empathic awareness. However, it does a whole lot more too with

massive

problems and side effects is an understatement..they need something

from here a remote derivitive perhaps? "

Raven replied:

" As far as I know, Ecstacy is an illegal drug. Perhaps we should

discontinue this portion of the discussion and stay on track with

discussion of legal drugs. Just a thought. "

It's also a rule (which can be seen on the home page and found in

the FAQ Database) that there be no discussions on illegal drugs:

The following topics may not be discussed at FAM:

A) The pros and cons or politics of illegal drug use. Exceptions:

Discussions of addiction and recovery or personal struggles with

illegal drug use.

This discussion ends here and now.

Tom

Administrator

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 1/7/2007 3:10:21 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, drumthis2001@... writes:

The human race is not ready to experience Utopianism.

We probably never will be because everyone has a different view of what Utopia would be. I also don't think Utopia would be possible as long as people have free will and the freedom to choice for themselves. Under any Utopian system there would be those who would rebel either for ideological reasons, anger at the system or just plain boredom.

Look what is happening in the West today. Western middle and upper class teens have an almost Utopian way of life: plenty of resources, plenty of free time, free food and dwelling from the parents, and much immunity from severe prosecution by the law. Do they use this to get a top notch education or get a job in the summer to save for a good college? Some do, but the Internet is full of what many do. They imitate Jackass doing foolish stunts, fighting, doing drugs and get drunk, etc. Statistics vary on drug use, etc. amongst teens, but there is a significant proportion that do.

I think a Utopia where the basics (food, clothing, housing, medical care, basic allowance) were provided, then that is what would happen to the majority of people.

No, I don't think we are cut out for Utopia. Some people could handle it, but I don't think most could.

[Guest guest]

Hello . People are desperate and greedy and psychopaths take advantage of that. Plain and simple. I'm sure ecstasy is fun. However, like you said, it comes with it's own pandora's box. A remote derivative of something from ecstasy is possible. Antidepressants act remotely like LSD. Amphetamine acts remotely like Phenylethylamine in chocolate and certain other foods like Khat given free to soldiers who fight in the middle east. It's all fun and games until a devil warlord or any other loser takes advantage of it. The human race is not ready to experience Utopianism. I think you're like me, ready to try new experiences. There's nothing wrong with that in my opinion. It's when people aren't careful that addictions,separations and deaths happen. <wisdom4free@...> wrote: Ecstacy is the only drug I know of which showed specific aide in empathic awareness. However, it does a whole lot more too with massive problems and side effects is an understatement..they need something from here a remote derivitive perhaps?nick <drumthis2001 > wrote: Right on Sandi! I'm glad it's worked out for you. It does sound like a promising treatment. I'd do it but, I'd rather it not take a long time. Maybe there will be an opportunity to try it out sometime. Sandi Harrington

<sandiharringtonearthlink (DOT) net> wrote: Hi,I used to take daily oxytocin injections for CFS until a life-threatening side effect required I discontinue. The side effect was female bleeding. I had been taking it for a couple years before that happened. A lighter dosage might not have caused that side effect. Males I spoke to had muscle cramps in the legs, which made them discontinue.It made the difference between feeling and acting alive compared to feeling and acting not so alive.At the time I had never heard of Asperger's, nor knew of it's effect on my family.Interestingly, I noted that I became much more social, not only due to feeling much better, but due to having more assertiveness! I had PTSD at the time. It totally brought me out of my

shell. It also took away a tremor and extreme weakness I had developed.I would try intranasal administration of oxytocin in aheartbeat!Sandi Harrington Pharmaceutical Help for Adult Autism?>>http://psychcentral.com/news/2006/12/04/pharmaceutical-help-for->adult-autism/>>Pharmaceutical Help for Adult Autism?>>By: Psych Central News Editor > on Monday, Dec, 4, 2006>>Reviewed by: M. Grohol, Psy.D. > on Monday, Dec, 4, 2006 >

>>Oxytocin, a hormone best known for activity during birth and >lactation, is also a brain neurotransmitter involved in social >recognition and bonding and, according to first round research, may >have significant positive effects on adult autism patients.>>A new study, funded by the Seaver Foundation, examined the effects >of oxytocin on repetitive behaviors and aspects of social cognition >in adults with autism. The hormone was administered using >intravenous fluid and nasal technology to allow better penetration >of the blood brain barrier, a membrane that serves as a physical >barrier between the blood vessels and the central nervous system.>>"When administered orally, oxytocin is metabolized and only a small >amount reaches the brain. This is important because the behavioral >effects of oxytocin are thought to result from its action on the >brain",

explained investigators Hollander, MD and >Bartz, PhD.>>"Studies with animals have found that oxytocin plays a role in a >variety of behaviors, including parent-child and adult-to-adult pair >bonding, social memory, social cognition, anxiety reduction and >repetitive behaviors," explained Dr. Bartz. >>"However," adds Dr. Hollander, "we have only recently considered >that administration of oxytocin can have behavioral effects. Autism >is a particularly ripe neuropsychiatric disorder for studying this >approach because it presents with the types of symptoms that have >been found to be associated with the oxytocin system." >>High-functioning adults with autism or Asperger's disorder received >an intravenous infusion of pitocin (synthetic oxytocin) or placebo >(saline solution) over a four-hour period. During that time, >participants were

monitored for repetitive behaviors that are >hallmarks of autism spectrum disorders including need to tell/ask, >touching, and repeating. These behaviors were assessed at a baseline >and throughout the course of the infusion. >>"Repetitive behaviors are often overlooked as symptoms of autism in >favor of more dramatic symptoms like disrupted social functioning," >noted Hollander. "However, early repetitive behavior is often the >best predictor of a later autism diagnosis.">The infusion produced results that were both clinically and >statistically significant. Hollander noted a rapid reduction of >repetitive behaviors over the course of the oxytocin infusion, >whereas no such reduction occurred following the placebo infusion, >suggesting that oxytocin does indeed address these symptoms. >>Researchers also looked at the effects of oxytocin on social

>cognition. Autism patients are often unable to detect or read >emotion in others through facial and voice cues, resulting in the >decreased ability to have meaningful interactions with others that >characterizes individuals with this disease. >>To test participants' ability to assign affective significance to >speech, participants listened to pre-recorded sentences with neutral >semantic content that were presented with different intonations such >as anger, sadness, or happiness. Participants were asked to identify >the emotion. Participants received intravenous infusions of pitocin >(synthetic oxytocin) or placebo (saline solution) over a four-hour >period; participants then returned approximately two weeks later, >receiving the alternate compound. Comprehension of affective speech >was assessed throughout the four-hour infusion on both occasions, >that is, once with

intravenous infusion of oxytocin and once without.>>Most interestingly, participants who received oxytocin on the first >testing day retained the ability to assign affective significance to >speech, performing above expectations when they returned >approximately two weeks later. This effect was not found among >participants who received the placebo on the first testing day. >>Hollander and his colleagues are now using nasal technology to study >the treatment implications of oxytocin in a controlled six week >trial. "The intranasal administration of oxytocin is important >because it may allow for better penetration of the blood brain >barrier, and is easier to administer," explained Hollander. "When >administered orally, oxytocin is metabolized and only a small amount >reaches the brain. This is important because the behavioral effects >of oxytocin are thought to result

from its action on the brain.">>Hollander and his colleagues are among the first group to have used >intravenous fluid technology and nasal technology to study the >behavioral effects of oxytocin in autism spectrum disorders. Though >the findings are promising, Hollander cautions that this research is >still very preliminary. >>"Our findings will need to be replicated in large scale, placebo >controlled trials to fully explore treatment potential," said >Hollander. "And, though both intravenous and intranasal approaches >have been well tolerated, we need to understand more about the >safety of these potential treatments, particularly before these >effects are explored in autistic children." __________________________________________________

[Guest guest]

"No, I don't think we are cut out for Utopia. Some people could handle it, but I don't think most could. -"" --Which is perhaps the main point of Dostoyevsky's work Notes from Underground. A great book. I laughed out loud more than once, and have quoted it on more than one email list. Woody even wrote a short satire of it. Here's the first paragraph from gutenberg... http://www.gutenberg.org/dirs/etext96/notun11.txt I am a sick man. ... I am a spiteful man. I am an unattractive man. Ibelieve my liver is diseased. However, I know nothing at all about mydisease, and do not know for certain what ails me. I don't consult a doctorfor it, and never have, though I have a respect for medicine

and doctors. Besides, I am extremely superstitious, sufficiently so to respect medicine,anyway (I am well-educated enough not to be superstitious, but I amsuperstitious). No, I refuse to consult a doctor from spite. That youprobably will not understand. Well, I understand it, though. Of course, Ican't explain who it is precisely that I am mortifying in this case by myspite: I am perfectly well aware that I cannot "pay out" the doctors by notconsulting them; I know better than anyone that by all this I am onlyinjuring myself and no one else. But still, if I don't consult a doctor it isfrom spite. My liver is bad, well--let it get worse! Heph environmental1st2003 <no_reply > wrote: Adam and Eve couldn't even handle it, and they lived in it for a while. TomAdministrator"No, I don't think we are cut out for Utopia. Some people could handle it, but I don't think most could. "" Cheap Talk? Check out Messenger's low PC-to-Phone call rates.

Need a quick answer? Get one in minutes from people who know. Ask your question on

Answers.

[Guest guest]

I believe you're correct on that. The Jackass stunt is a good example. Influences from t.v. would be nonexistent. People have no idea what joy they could experience if they were only able to get rid of t.v. shows. If people worked only towards ethical groundbreaking science and got rid of most leisurely activities that weren't goal oriented, we would be alot closer to utopia. Utopia is individualistic within a balanced regulation. Whether that must be communist/libertarian or banning all leaders and platforms after a certain frame has been set I don't know. VISIGOTH@... wrote: In a message dated 1/7/2007 3:10:21 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, drumthis2001 writes: The human race is not ready to experience Utopianism. We probably never will be because everyone has a different view of what Utopia would be. I also don't think Utopia would be possible as long as people have free will and the freedom to choice for themselves. Under any Utopian system there would be those who would rebel either for ideological reasons, anger at the system or just plain boredom. Look what is happening in the West today. Western middle and upper class teens have an almost Utopian way of life: plenty of resources, plenty

of free time, free food and dwelling from the parents, and much immunity from severe prosecution by the law. Do they use this to get a top notch education or get a job in the summer to save for a good college? Some do, but the Internet is full of what many do. They imitate Jackass doing foolish stunts, fighting, doing drugs and get drunk, etc. Statistics vary on drug use, etc. amongst teens, but there is a significant proportion that do. I think a Utopia where the basics (food, clothing, housing, medical care, basic allowance) were provided, then that is what would happen to the majority of people. No, I don't think we are cut out for Utopia. Some people could handle it, but I don't think most could. __________________________________________________

[Guest guest]

I am down to two shows a week now:

1) Keeping Up Appearances - A British sitcom on PBS.

2) The Antiques Roadshow

I also watch those " how to paint " shows they have on PBS (Acryllic on

Canvass, Oil, Watercolor, etc.), This Old House and/or Ask This Old

House. But only if I catch them.

Everything else I used to watch I gave up, and if a show I like gets

cancelled, I never watch whatever is placed in its time slot.

My life is quieter and stress free as a result of cutting out so much

TV, and ironically, if I look at commercial TV these days, it stresses

me out to such a point that I have to turn it off almost immediately.

Tom

Administrator

" I believe you're correct on that. The Jackass stunt is a good

example. Influences from t.v. would be nonexistent. People have no

idea what joy they could experience if they were only able to get rid

of t.v. shows. "

[Guest guest]

I can't believe how much rubbish is on TV. I remember when it was

just 2, 3 channels and then a couple more got added (in England). Now

there are 100's of channels and still very little of substance on. I

tend to stick to a couple of long running proggrammes and that is

more to do with familarity and consistence, just chewing gum for the

brain basically. I generally look at the TV guide and only watch what

I want to - quite often there is nothing worth watching though and I

much happier online, reading or doing something else anyways.

My son likes to occasionally sit down with me to watch something

though - so we'll watch the occasional video, or dvd. Finally got to

see vege tales btw - very funny :-) Bought him 'The toy that saved

Christmas' for Christmas and he's got another vege tales dvd for his

birthday (end of month).

>

> " I believe you're correct on that. The Jackass stunt is a good

> example. Influences from t.v. would be nonexistent. People have no

> idea what joy they could experience if they were only able to get

rid

> of t.v. shows. "

>

[Guest guest]

Good for you Tom, if you feel better without tv.

I haven't watched tv very much for several years now. The only things

I sometimes watch are 'Gilmore Girls' (I like the wordplays they are

able to do) and every now and than I watch 'Greys' Anatomy' (for no

other reason than that it entertains me :-)

>

> I am down to two shows a week now:

>

> 1) Keeping Up Appearances - A British sitcom on PBS.

> 2) The Antiques Roadshow

>

> I also watch those " how to paint " shows they have on PBS (Acryllic

on

> Canvass, Oil, Watercolor, etc.), This Old House and/or Ask This Old

> House. But only if I catch them.

>

> Everything else I used to watch I gave up, and if a show I like

gets

> cancelled, I never watch whatever is placed in its time slot.

>

> My life is quieter and stress free as a result of cutting out so

much

> TV, and ironically, if I look at commercial TV these days, it

stresses

> me out to such a point that I have to turn it off almost

immediately.

>

> Tom

> Administrator

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 1/10/2007 2:11:54 A.M. Eastern Standard Time, no_reply writes:

I am down to two shows a week now:

There are a number of shows that I watch, almost all of them on things like Discovery Channel.I don't watch broadcast unless I need to because of storm warnings and the alerts there are better than on the national channels. Most TV is junk though. as for commercials, I mute those.

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 1/10/2007 4:23:37 A.M. Eastern Standard Time, julie.stevenson16@... writes:

I can't believe how much rubbish is on TV. I remember when it was just 2, 3 channels and then a couple more got added (in England). Now there are 100's of channels and still very little of substance on.

Its the same over here. I've got over 200 channels but only a few have anything worth watching on them. Even they have a lot of uninteresting things or repeats, especially toward the end of the season. There are lots of sports channels, which I very rarely watch. Not only from lack of interest in sports but also because there are invariably lots of whistling idiots in the crowd, which is one reason why I mostly watch motor sports because you can't hear the whistlers. Use to really like baseball but there are too many whistlers. It must be nice to go to a ball game in Japan where the crowd is expected to stay quiet, except for certain sections. All the MTV channels and their like could be banned as far as I'm concerned. I don't even have the movie channels. Why bother with them when I can go to the video store and rent just the movies I want? I did take HBO for a while to watch Band of Brothers when that aired, but canceled it again after the series ended.

[Guest guest]

>

> My life is quieter and stress free as a result of cutting out so much

> TV, and ironically, if I look at commercial TV these days, it

stresses

> me out to such a point that I have to turn it off almost immediately.

>

> Tom

> Administrator

>

I was TV free for 7 years, now commerical shows are available I watch

only science shows (evolution, science channel, or mythbusters(but that

is for my boyfriend) All day the house is quiet. We only tape shows

and edit out the commericals. Yes regular TV hurts my brain. There is

an immeadiate calming effect, and the result is that you live a life.

I also sometimes read or listen to news radio

mimi