Guest guest Posted October 27, 2011 Report Share Posted October 27, 2011 Shane~It has been proven that BST designs are EXACTLY some of the old TLC designs from years back. If you benefited from the BST training like you say then the same intensity with TLC training will do even more for you since the assessment one would work with would be more informative, not just the one page (heads page) Lee lifted from Pete's TLC assessment after he took Pete's training. ~From: "Shane " <tracyshane@...> , "mercado 83" <mercado_83@...>Cc: tracyshane@...Sent: Thursday, October 27, 2011 10:44:26 PMSubject: ...scoop on Les Fehmi. Good information, . (mercado 83),That's a good comment you made below. I know that Van Deusen has reservations about Brain State Training because Les Gerdes studied under . told me over the phone that Gerdes' methods are identical to TLC's (please correct me if I'm wrong, )--but I know from personal experience that BST is NOT identical to TLC training because, as you comment in your posting, , BST is absorbed passively--it does not take active mental concentration, as does traditional NF. It is also much quicker than NF.And to ---you yourself, , said to me, "...maybe if you want to get there without doing any work for it..." or words to that effect. Well, of course I want to 'get there' the easiest possible way, , and of course I want to get there as quickly as possible! So does everybody. People have other things to devote their 'work' time to--like 'work,' for instance. That doesn't mean people are lazy, , it just means that they have other importance things going on and they want to get on with their lives.MY PERSONAL EXPERIENCE WITH BST:I've personally gone through BST--8 days, or 16 sessions, of it--in January 2011. To be frank, I just plain benefited from BST beyond my wildest expectations. I had given up all hope of a transformation in my life, but BST provided me with just that--a transformation. I now have a sense of inner calm and self-confidence that I've never known before, much more than I ever achieved with meditation techniques. And the results I achieved from BST have been permanent because once one achieves a higher level of consciousness, then all decisions and actions are made from this level and one deals with life with more maturity. Even my husband has noticed and has even made the unsolicited comment that I seem 'different' now--better--more in charge of my life--and, believe me, my husband has NEVER said anything like that to me before in the 30+ years we've known each other! And when I say 'never,' I don't mean 'hardly ever'--I mean 'NEVER.' My husband's surprise comment reflects what Gerdes says regarding many who undergo BST--"...they just look so much more present." [the word 'present' in italics].I urge all NF practitioners to research BST further. I have no reason to say this to you, except that the results of BST are often so dramatic, as they were in my case. Perhaps this is because Les Gerdes used the brain wave frequencies of two Buddhist monks to set up his first model, rather than the median of brain wave samples taken throughout the world (NF).MY CONVERSATION WITH HERSHEL TOOMIM:I don't know if one can reach a higher level of consciousness through traditional NF techniques or not, but can one reach it through NF in just three days? I spoke with Hershel Toomim about my experience with BST for over an hour one day. Hershel was a true professional, and a good listener--he respected what I told him about my experience with BST, and he accepted my words on face value--after all, I had no reason to lie to him about my experience, and he recognized that. Hershel asked me how long it took me to achieve the profound change I experienced with BST, and I told him '3 days.' He said, "Three days!" Hershel was clearly impressed, and he told me he was going to explore BST further. He told me that he was positive that he could duplicate the results of BST. To my sorrow, Hershel, who I believe was 94 years old when I spoke to him, passed away shortly after our conversation. I hope other NF practitioners will pick up Hershel's torch and find out how BST works and duplicate it so that it can become more available to the public. I know that Gerdes didn't seek to have BST copyrighted (or patented? I forget which) because it would be too easy for others to duplicate once his secret was out. A BST practitioner told me that Gerdes felt that BST had a '5 year window' before others figured it out. Hershel himself was so positive that he could easily figure it out himself, but unfortunately he didn't live long enough to pursue it--so, one of you out there, please pick up Hershel's torch. BST works better than traditional NF--I'm sure of it. Read about it online; take the 5-day/10-session BST training yourself; watch the youtube videos of the severely involved child receiving BST in AZ; read the testimonials of soldiers suffering from PTSD.RE: LES GERDES:I have no allegiance to Les Gerdes himself--in fact, I fear his apparently-harsh business practices might 'do BST in'-- but I do know that his Brain State Training worked extremely well for me and for others, and that BST doesn't require dozens or hundreds of sessions to achieve desired results as does NF. And children can play with their toys if they want to, while undergoing BST, rather than be coerced into focusing on the computer screen In his book "Limitless You," Gerdes explains that he achieved better results from NF for his PTSD than he did with other treatments, such as drugs or psychotherapy (he was attacked and beaten by a gang of kids in San Francisco); but, Gerdes said, NF just didn't work fast enough, and he wanted to get on with his life. THERE'S NOTHING WRONG WITH 'BEING A GOOD MARKETER.' Van Deusen comments that Les Gerdes is a good "marketer," and I suppose Pete is right about that--but Gerdes' marketing skills DO NOT in any way diminish the genuine value of BST as a treatment. Marketing was Gerdes's forte to begin with, and he was good at it--he was a major force behind making Amazon.com the major force that it is today. But that's not an argument against the true value of BST.RE: LENS:I intend to take further sessions of BST--but I, too, wonder whether I might benefit as much or more from LENS. From what I've been told, LENS tends to be of greatest benefit to those who have undergone recent severe trauma, such as a stroke. I also read somewhere--I think in the book "A Symphony in the Brain" by Jim Robbins--that LENS has even benefited dogs that had been emotionally traumatized as a result of Hurricane Katrina and were left abandoned. These traumatized dogs, who had started snapping at people in their fear, became calm enough to be adoptable again.In other words, with LENS, as with BST, one does not have to be actively engaged in the process in order to benefit from it. You can even benefit from BST if you fall asleep. I was told during my BST sessions to simply to imagine myself relaxing in a pleasant surrounding. I chose to picture myself on a blanket on a beach in Galveston TX, where I lived for 2 years. There were a couple of other visualization things I was asked to follow for BST, but that was it. I didn't have to actively concentrate on anything, like make a submarine going up and down, or make an airplane fly, on the computer screen in front of me.STUDY BEING PERFORMED ON BST:I've considered trying traditional NF--which is why I'm on this site, to learn more about it--but, based on what I've read to date on this site, plus on Les Gerdes' book "Limitless You," plus on testimonials for BST that I've read, it sounds like BST is much faster than traditional NF and that it's the most cost-effective way to go.Another point worth mentioning: The U. of Va. is currently conducting a study on BST, with the support and cooperation of the US Military, on 350 soldiers suffering from PTSD. The reason that the military chose to pursue this study is that they are desperate to find some effective means to deal with PTSD of their returning soldiers, and testimonials of soldiers with PTSD who have undergone BST have been impressive. IMPT FOR NEUROFEEDBACK PRACTITIONERS TO KNOW: SOLDIERS SUFFERING FROM PTSD CAN RECEIVE BST FOR FREE:Which brings to mind something else that NF practitioners need to know: MOST, IF NOT ALL, BRAIN STATE TRAINING CENTERS THROUGHOUT THE US, OFFER SOLDIERS WHO SERVED IN A WAR ZONE and who are now experiencing PTSD AS A RESULT, BST TREATMENT WITHOUT CHARGE. So if you know of any soldiers suffering from PTSD, whether it be from Viet Nam or Iraq or Afghanistan, please call Brain State Technology's AZ office for more details.Being from a military family myself, I care a lot about our soldiers--a whole lot. If you know ANY soldier suffering from PTSD as a result of serving in a war zone, PLEASE pass this information on to the soldier or his family. Professional responsibility calls for it.I have great respect for all of you NF practitioners--you deserve more attention and respect than the medical community gives you. Thank you for all you've done to help people in need.Yours,Shane New Hope PAFrom: mercado_83 <mercado_83@...> Sent: Thursday, October 27, 2011 2:19 PMSubject: Re: What's the scoop on Les Fehmi I skimmed through the BST file Pete uploaded. From what I can tell, the BST software provides feedback in the form of sounds that reflect some aspects of the real-time activity of the brain, and the brain is hypothesized to automatically correct itself while listening to the sounds, and the user sits passively without actively trying to change anything (p. 9-11). To me, that sounds closer to the LENS approach than the TLC approach (the TLC approach being closer to "traditional" methods of neurofeedback). Chivers > As for BST...well, I've already written that story several times, and I'm > tired of it. Of course it "works" for some people, and doesn't for others. > All NF does. But BST, and certainly Mr. Gerdes, are much more about > marketing than about brain training. I have recently seen that they are now > calling what they do (drum-roll) > "High-resolution, Relational, Resonance-Based Electroencephalic Mirroring" > or HIRREM (which name, by the way, is TRADEMARKED!! If you put salt in a > fancy container and call it low-cal, all-natural, gluten-free NaCl > flavoring, you'll probably be able to sell it for double the price to at > least some of the market. And no matter what you call it, it still adds a > salty taste to your food, so many people will like it--same as regular salt > in a simple package. That's marketing. And if you can get a few > "celebrities" to swear that they won't eat a bite without it, well, you'll > sell even more. > > Anyone wants to read the 18-page "article" setting this forth, I've uploaded > it to in the Files area > /files/ > Anyone who is particularly interested might wish to glance through pp13-17, > where they explain the difference between HIRREM (sorry, I can't find the TM > key on my keyboard) and "regular" neurofeedback. > > Let the buyer beware, regardless of what he/she is buying. > > Pete > > " > -- > Van Deusen > pvdtlc@... > http://www.brain-trainer.com > USA 305 433 3160 > BR 47 3346 6235 > The Learning Curve, Inc. -- Watch for all that beauty reflecting from you and sing a love song to your existence. Rumi ♥ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 27, 2011 Report Share Posted October 27, 2011 Thank you, ,I'll have to ask Pete about that. Pete didn't mention that to me on the phone when I spoke to him a few months ago. In fact, Pete said he felt I'd be better off staying with BST (not just for myself, but for my 3 adult children).ShaneFrom: Duncan <karenduncan@...> Sent: Thursday, October 27, 2011 10:57 PMSubject: Re: ...scoop on Les Fehmi Shane~It has been proven that BST designs are EXACTLY some of the old TLC designs from years back. If you benefited from the BST training like you say then the same intensity with TLC training will do even more for you since the assessment one would work with would be more informative, not just the one page (heads page) Lee lifted from Pete's TLC assessment after he took Pete's training. ~From: "Shane " <tracyshane@...> , "mercado 83" <mercado_83@...>Cc: tracyshane@...Sent: Thursday, October 27, 2011 10:44:26 PMSubject: ...scoop on Les Fehmi. Good information, . (mercado 83),That's a good comment you made below. I know that Van Deusen has reservations about Brain State Training because Les Gerdes studied under . told me over the phone that Gerdes' methods are identical to TLC's (please correct me if I'm wrong, )--but I know from personal experience that BST is NOT identical to TLC training because, as you comment in your posting, , BST is absorbed passively--it does not take active mental concentration, as does traditional NF. It is also much quicker than NF.And to ---you yourself, , said to me, "...maybe if you want to get there without doing any work for it..." or words to that effect. Well, of course I want to 'get there' the easiest possible way, , and of course I want to get there as quickly as possible! So does everybody. People have other things to devote their 'work' time to--like 'work,' for instance. That doesn't mean people are lazy, , it just means that they have other importance things going on and they want to get on with their lives.MY PERSONAL EXPERIENCE WITH BST:I've personally gone through BST--8 days, or 16 sessions, of it--in January 2011. To be frank, I just plain benefited from BST beyond my wildest expectations. I had given up all hope of a transformation in my life, but BST provided me with just that--a transformation. I now have a sense of inner calm and self-confidence that I've never known before, much more than I ever achieved with meditation techniques. And the results I achieved from BST have been permanent because once one achieves a higher level of consciousness, then all decisions and actions are made from this level and one deals with life with more maturity. Even my husband has noticed and has even made the unsolicited comment that I seem 'different' now--better--more in charge of my life--and, believe me, my husband has NEVER said anything like that to me before in the 30+ years we've known each other! And when I say 'never,' I don't mean 'hardly ever'--I mean 'NEVER.' My husband's surprise comment reflects what Gerdes says regarding many who undergo BST--"...they just look so much more present." [the word 'present' in italics].I urge all NF practitioners to research BST further. I have no reason to say this to you, except that the results of BST are often so dramatic, as they were in my case. Perhaps this is because Les Gerdes used the brain wave frequencies of two Buddhist monks to set up his first model, rather than the median of brain wave samples taken throughout the world (NF).MY CONVERSATION WITH HERSHEL TOOMIM:I don't know if one can reach a higher level of consciousness through traditional NF techniques or not, but can one reach it through NF in just three days? I spoke with Hershel Toomim about my experience with BST for over an hour one day. Hershel was a true professional, and a good listener--he respected what I told him about my experience with BST, and he accepted my words on face value--after all, I had no reason to lie to him about my experience, and he recognized that. Hershel asked me how long it took me to achieve the profound change I experienced with BST, and I told him '3 days.' He said, "Three days!" Hershel was clearly impressed, and he told me he was going to explore BST further. He told me that he was positive that he could duplicate the results of BST. To my sorrow, Hershel, who I believe was 94 years old when I spoke to him, passed away shortly after our conversation. I hope other NF practitioners will pick up Hershel's torch and find out how BST works and duplicate it so that it can become more available to the public. I know that Gerdes didn't seek to have BST copyrighted (or patented? I forget which) because it would be too easy for others to duplicate once his secret was out. A BST practitioner told me that Gerdes felt that BST had a '5 year window' before others figured it out. Hershel himself was so positive that he could easily figure it out himself, but unfortunately he didn't live long enough to pursue it--so, one of you out there, please pick up Hershel's torch. BST works better than traditional NF--I'm sure of it. Read about it online; take the 5-day/10-session BST training yourself; watch the youtube videos of the severely involved child receiving BST in AZ; read the testimonials of soldiers suffering from PTSD.RE: LES GERDES:I have no allegiance to Les Gerdes himself--in fact, I fear his apparently-harsh business practices might 'do BST in'-- but I do know that his Brain State Training worked extremely well for me and for others, and that BST doesn't require dozens or hundreds of sessions to achieve desired results as does NF. And children can play with their toys if they want to, while undergoing BST, rather than be coerced into focusing on the computer screen In his book "Limitless You," Gerdes explains that he achieved better results from NF for his PTSD than he did with other treatments, such as drugs or psychotherapy (he was attacked and beaten by a gang of kids in San Francisco); but, Gerdes said, NF just didn't work fast enough, and he wanted to get on with his life. THERE'S NOTHING WRONG WITH 'BEING A GOOD MARKETER.' Van Deusen comments that Les Gerdes is a good "marketer," and I suppose Pete is right about that--but Gerdes' marketing skills DO NOT in any way diminish the genuine value of BST as a treatment. Marketing was Gerdes's forte to begin with, and he was good at it--he was a major force behind making Amazon.com the major force that it is today. But that's not an argument against the true value of BST.RE: LENS:I intend to take further sessions of BST--but I, too, wonder whether I might benefit as much or more from LENS. From what I've been told, LENS tends to be of greatest benefit to those who have undergone recent severe trauma, such as a stroke. I also read somewhere--I think in the book "A Symphony in the Brain" by Jim Robbins--that LENS has even benefited dogs that had been emotionally traumatized as a result of Hurricane Katrina and were left abandoned. These traumatized dogs, who had started snapping at people in their fear, became calm enough to be adoptable again.In other words, with LENS, as with BST, one does not have to be actively engaged in the process in order to benefit from it. You can even benefit from BST if you fall asleep. I was told during my BST sessions to simply to imagine myself relaxing in a pleasant surrounding. I chose to picture myself on a blanket on a beach in Galveston TX, where I lived for 2 years. There were a couple of other visualization things I was asked to follow for BST, but that was it. I didn't have to actively concentrate on anything, like make a submarine going up and down, or make an airplane fly, on the computer screen in front of me.STUDY BEING PERFORMED ON BST:I've considered trying traditional NF--which is why I'm on this site, to learn more about it--but, based on what I've read to date on this site, plus on Les Gerdes' book "Limitless You," plus on testimonials for BST that I've read, it sounds like BST is much faster than traditional NF and that it's the most cost-effective way to go.Another point worth mentioning: The U. of Va. is currently conducting a study on BST, with the support and cooperation of the US Military, on 350 soldiers suffering from PTSD. The reason that the military chose to pursue this study is that they are desperate to find some effective means to deal with PTSD of their returning soldiers, and testimonials of soldiers with PTSD who have undergone BST have been impressive. IMPT FOR NEUROFEEDBACK PRACTITIONERS TO KNOW: SOLDIERS SUFFERING FROM PTSD CAN RECEIVE BST FOR FREE:Which brings to mind something else that NF practitioners need to know: MOST, IF NOT ALL, BRAIN STATE TRAINING CENTERS THROUGHOUT THE US, OFFER SOLDIERS WHO SERVED IN A WAR ZONE and who are now experiencing PTSD AS A RESULT, BST TREATMENT WITHOUT CHARGE. So if you know of any soldiers suffering from PTSD, whether it be from Viet Nam or Iraq or Afghanistan, please call Brain State Technology's AZ office for more details.Being from a military family myself, I care a lot about our soldiers--a whole lot. If you know ANY soldier suffering from PTSD as a result of serving in a war zone, PLEASE pass this information on to the soldier or his family. Professional responsibility calls for it.I have great respect for all of you NF practitioners--you deserve more attention and respect than the medical community gives you. Thank you for all you've done to help people in need.Yours,Shane New Hope PAFrom: mercado_83 <mercado_83@...> Sent: Thursday, October 27, 2011 2:19 PMSubject: Re: What's the scoop on Les Fehmi I skimmed through the BST file Pete uploaded. From what I can tell, the BST software provides feedback in the form of sounds that reflect some aspects of the real-time activity of the brain, and the brain is hypothesized to automatically correct itself while listening to the sounds, and the user sits passively without actively trying to change anything (p. 9-11). To me, that sounds closer to the LENS approach than the TLC approach (the TLC approach being closer to "traditional" methods of neurofeedback). Chivers > As for BST...well, I've already written that story several times, and I'm > tired of it. Of course it "works" for some people, and doesn't for others. > All NF does. But BST, and certainly Mr. Gerdes, are much more about > marketing than about brain training. I have recently seen that they are now > calling what they do (drum-roll) > "High-resolution, Relational, Resonance-Based Electroencephalic Mirroring" > or HIRREM (which name, by the way, is TRADEMARKED!! If you put salt in a > fancy container and call it low-cal, all-natural, gluten-free NaCl > flavoring, you'll probably be able to sell it for double the price to at > least some of the market. And no matter what you call it, it still adds a > salty taste to your food, so many people will like it--same as regular salt > in a simple package. That's marketing. And if you can get a few > "celebrities" to swear that they won't eat a bite without it, well, you'll > sell even more. > > Anyone wants to read the 18-page "article" setting this forth, I've uploaded > it to in the Files area > /files/ > Anyone who is particularly interested might wish to glance through pp13-17, > where they explain the difference between HIRREM (sorry, I can't find the TM > key on my keyboard) and "regular" neurofeedback. > > Let the buyer beware, regardless of what he/she is buying. > > Pete > > " > -- > Van Deusen > pvdtlc@... > http://www.brain-trainer.com > USA 305 433 3160 > BR 47 3346 6235 > The Learning Curve, Inc. -- Watch for all that beauty reflecting from you and sing a love song to your existence. Rumi ♥ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 27, 2011 Report Share Posted October 27, 2011 Shane, as my mother used to say, " enough is enough", o.k.? how about we change the subject? Sue On 10/27/2011 9:01 PM, Shane wrote: Thank you, , I'll have to ask Pete about that. Pete didn't mention that to me on the phone when I spoke to him a few months ago. In fact, Pete said he felt I'd be better off staying with BST (not just for myself, but for my 3 adult children). Shane From: Duncan <karenduncan@...> Sent: Thursday, October 27, 2011 10:57 PM Subject: Re: ....scoop on Les Fehmi Shane~ It has been proven that BST designs are EXACTLY some of the old TLC designs from years back. If you benefited from the BST training like you say then the same intensity with TLC training will do even more for you since the assessment one would work with would be more informative, not just the one page (heads page) Lee lifted from Pete's TLC assessment after he took Pete's training. ~ From: "Shane " <tracyshane@...> , "mercado 83" <mercado_83@...> Cc: tracyshane@... Sent: Thursday, October 27, 2011 10:44:26 PM Subject: ...scoop on Les Fehmi. Good information, . (mercado 83), That's a good comment you made below. I know that Van Deusen has reservations about Brain State Training because Les Gerdes studied under . told me over the phone that Gerdes' methods are identical to TLC's (please correct me if I'm wrong, )--but I know from personal experience that BST is NOT identical to TLC training because, as you comment in your posting, , BST is absorbed passively--it does not take active mental concentration, as does traditional NF. It is also much quicker than NF. And to ---you yourself, , said to me, "...maybe if you want to get there without doing any work for it..." or words to that effect. Well, of course I want to 'get there' the easiest possible way, , and of course I want to get there as quickly as possible! So does everybody. People have other things to devote their 'work' time to--like 'work,' for instance. That doesn't mean people are lazy, , it just means that they have other importance things going on and they want to get on with their lives. MY PERSONAL EXPERIENCE WITH BST: I've personally gone through BST--8 days, or 16 sessions, of it--in January 2011. To be frank, I just plain benefited from BST beyond my wildest expectations. I had given up all hope of a transformation in my life, but BST provided me with just that--a transformation. I now have a sense of inner calm and self-confidence that I've never known before, much more than I ever achieved with meditation techniques. And the results I achieved from BST have been permanent because once one achieves a higher level of consciousness, then all decisions and actions are made from this level and one deals with life with more maturity. Even my husband has noticed and has even made the unsolicited comment that I seem 'different' now--better--more in charge of my life--and, believe me, my husband has NEVER said anything like that to me before in the 30+ years we've known each other! And when I say 'never,' I don't mean 'hardly ever'--I mean 'NEVER.' My husband's surprise comment reflects what Gerdes says regarding many who undergo BST--"...they just look so much more present." [the word 'present' in italics]. I urge all NF practitioners to research BST further. I have no reason to say this to you, except that the results of BST are often so dramatic, as they were in my case. Perhaps this is because Les Gerdes used the brain wave frequencies of two Buddhist monks to set up his first model, rather than the median of brain wave samples taken throughout the world (NF). MY CONVERSATION WITH HERSHEL TOOMIM: I don't know if one can reach a higher level of consciousness through traditional NF techniques or not, but can one reach it through NF in just three days? I spoke with Hershel Toomim about my experience with BST for over an hour one day. Hershel was a true professional, and a good listener--he respected what I told him about my experience with BST, and he accepted my words on face value--after all, I had no reason to lie to him about my experience, and he recognized that. Hershel asked me how long it took me to achieve the profound change I experienced with BST, and I told him '3 days.' He said, "Three days!" Hershel was clearly impressed, and he told me he was going to explore BST further. He told me that he was positive that he could duplicate the results of BST. To my sorrow, Hershel, who I believe was 94 years old when I spoke to him, passed away shortly after our conversation. I hope other NF practitioners will pick up Hershel's torch and find out how BST works and duplicate it so that it can become more available to the public. I know that Gerdes didn't seek to have BST copyrighted (or patented? I forget which) because it would be too easy for others to duplicate once his secret was out. A BST practitioner told me that Gerdes felt that BST had a '5 year window' before others figured it out. Hershel himself was so positive that he could easily figure it out himself, but unfortunately he didn't live long enough to pursue it--so, one of you out there, please pick up Hershel's torch. BST works better than traditional NF--I'm sure of it. Read about it online; take the 5-day/10-session BST training yourself; watch the youtube videos of the severely involved child receiving BST in AZ; read the testimonials of soldiers suffering from PTSD. RE: LES GERDES: I have no allegiance to Les Gerdes himself--in fact, I fear his apparently-harsh business practices might 'do BST in'-- but I do know that his Brain State Training worked extremely well for me and for others, and that BST doesn't require dozens or hundreds of sessions to achieve desired results as does NF. And children can play with their toys if they want to, while undergoing BST, rather than be coerced into focusing on the computer screen In his book "Limitless You," Gerdes explains that he achieved better results from NF for his PTSD than he did with other treatments, such as drugs or psychotherapy (he was attacked and beaten by a gang of kids in San Francisco); but, Gerdes said, NF just didn't work fast enough, and he wanted to get on with his life. THERE'S NOTHING WRONG WITH 'BEING A GOOD MARKETER.' Van Deusen comments that Les Gerdes is a good "marketer," and I suppose Pete is right about that--but Gerdes' marketing skills DO NOT in any way diminish the genuine value of BST as a treatment. Marketing was Gerdes's forte to begin with, and he was good at it--he was a major force behind making Amazon.com the major force that it is today. But that's not an argument against the true value of BST. RE: LENS: I intend to take further sessions of BST--but I, too, wonder whether I might benefit as much or more from LENS. From what I've been told, LENS tends to be of greatest benefit to those who have undergone recent severe trauma, such as a stroke. I also read somewhere--I think in the book "A Symphony in the Brain" by Jim Robbins--that LENS has even benefited dogs that had been emotionally traumatized as a result of Hurricane Katrina and were left abandoned. These traumatized dogs, who had started snapping at people in their fear, became calm enough to be adoptable again. In other words, with LENS, as with BST, one does not have to be actively engaged in the process in order to benefit from it. You can even benefit from BST if you fall asleep. I was told during my BST sessions to simply to imagine myself relaxing in a pleasant surrounding. I chose to picture myself on a blanket on a beach in Galveston TX, where I lived for 2 years. There were a couple of other visualization things I was asked to follow for BST, but that was it. I didn't have to actively concentrate on anything, like make a submarine going up and down, or make an airplane fly, on the computer screen in front of me. STUDY BEING PERFORMED ON BST: I've considered trying traditional NF--which is why I'm on this site, to learn more about it--but, based on what I've read to date on this site, plus on Les Gerdes' book "Limitless You," plus on testimonials for BST that I've read, it sounds like BST is much faster than traditional NF and that it's the most cost-effective way to go. Another point worth mentioning: The U. of Va. is currently conducting a study on BST, with the support and cooperation of the US Military, on 350 soldiers suffering from PTSD. The reason that the military chose to pursue this study is that they are desperate to find some effective means to deal with PTSD of their returning soldiers, and testimonials of soldiers with PTSD who have undergone BST have been impressive. IMPT FOR NEUROFEEDBACK PRACTITIONERS TO KNOW: SOLDIERS SUFFERING FROM PTSD CAN RECEIVE BST FOR FREE: Which brings to mind something else that NF practitioners need to know: MOST, IF NOT ALL, BRAIN STATE TRAINING CENTERS THROUGHOUT THE US, OFFER SOLDIERS WHO SERVED IN A WAR ZONE and who are now experiencing PTSD AS A RESULT, BST TREATMENT WITHOUT CHARGE. So if you know of any soldiers suffering from PTSD, whether it be from Viet Nam or Iraq or Afghanistan, please call Brain State Technology's AZ office for more details. Being from a military family myself, I care a lot about our soldiers--a whole lot. If you know ANY soldier suffering from PTSD as a result of serving in a war zone, PLEASE pass this information on to the soldier or his family. Professional responsibility calls for it. I have great respect for all of you NF practitioners--you deserve more attention and respect than the medical community gives you. Thank you for all you've done to help people in need. Yours, Shane New Hope PA From: mercado_83 <mercado_83@...> To: Sent: Thursday, October 27, 2011 2:19 PM Subject: Re: What's the scoop on Les Fehmi I skimmed through the BST file Pete uploaded. From what I can tell, the BST software provides feedback in the form of sounds that reflect some aspects of the real-time activity of the brain, and the brain is hypothesized to automatically correct itself while listening to the sounds, and the user sits passively without actively trying to change anything (p. 9-11). To me, that sounds closer to the LENS approach than the TLC approach (the TLC approach being closer to "traditional" methods of neurofeedback). Chivers > As for BST...well, I've already written that story several times, and I'm > tired of it. Of course it "works" for some people, and doesn't for others. > All NF does. But BST, and certainly Mr. Gerdes, are much more about > marketing than about brain training. I have recently seen that they are now > calling what they do (drum-roll) > "High-resolution, Relational, Resonance-Based Electroencephalic Mirroring" > or HIRREM (which name, by the way, is TRADEMARKED!! If you put salt in a > fancy container and call it low-cal, all-natural, gluten-free NaCl > flavoring, you'll probably be able to sell it for double the price to at > least some of the market. And no matter what you call it, it still adds a > salty taste to your food, so many people will like it--same as regular salt > in a simple package. That's marketing. And if you can get a few > "celebrities" to swear that they won't eat a bite without it, well, you'll > sell even more. > > Anyone wants to read the 18-page "article" setting this forth, I've uploaded > it to in the Files area > /files/ > Anyone who is particularly interested might wish to glance through pp13-17, > where they explain the difference between HIRREM (sorry, I can't find the TM > key on my keyboard) and "regular" neurofeedback. > > Let the buyer beware, regardless of what he/she is buying. > > Pete > > " > -- > Van Deusen > pvdtlc@... > http://www.brain-trainer.com > USA 305 433 3160 > BR 47 3346 6235 > The Learning Curve, Inc. -- Watch for all that beauty reflecting from you and sing a love song to your existence. Rumi ♥ No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 9.0.920 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/3979 - Release Date: 10/27/11 12:35:00 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 27, 2011 Report Share Posted October 27, 2011 Shane, as my mother used to say, " enough is enough", o.k.? how about we change the subject? Sue On 10/27/2011 9:01 PM, Shane wrote: Thank you, , I'll have to ask Pete about that. Pete didn't mention that to me on the phone when I spoke to him a few months ago. In fact, Pete said he felt I'd be better off staying with BST (not just for myself, but for my 3 adult children). Shane From: Duncan <karenduncan@...> Sent: Thursday, October 27, 2011 10:57 PM Subject: Re: ....scoop on Les Fehmi Shane~ It has been proven that BST designs are EXACTLY some of the old TLC designs from years back. If you benefited from the BST training like you say then the same intensity with TLC training will do even more for you since the assessment one would work with would be more informative, not just the one page (heads page) Lee lifted from Pete's TLC assessment after he took Pete's training. ~ From: "Shane " <tracyshane@...> , "mercado 83" <mercado_83@...> Cc: tracyshane@... Sent: Thursday, October 27, 2011 10:44:26 PM Subject: ...scoop on Les Fehmi. Good information, . (mercado 83), That's a good comment you made below. I know that Van Deusen has reservations about Brain State Training because Les Gerdes studied under . told me over the phone that Gerdes' methods are identical to TLC's (please correct me if I'm wrong, )--but I know from personal experience that BST is NOT identical to TLC training because, as you comment in your posting, , BST is absorbed passively--it does not take active mental concentration, as does traditional NF. It is also much quicker than NF. And to ---you yourself, , said to me, "...maybe if you want to get there without doing any work for it..." or words to that effect. Well, of course I want to 'get there' the easiest possible way, , and of course I want to get there as quickly as possible! So does everybody. People have other things to devote their 'work' time to--like 'work,' for instance. That doesn't mean people are lazy, , it just means that they have other importance things going on and they want to get on with their lives. MY PERSONAL EXPERIENCE WITH BST: I've personally gone through BST--8 days, or 16 sessions, of it--in January 2011. To be frank, I just plain benefited from BST beyond my wildest expectations. I had given up all hope of a transformation in my life, but BST provided me with just that--a transformation. I now have a sense of inner calm and self-confidence that I've never known before, much more than I ever achieved with meditation techniques. And the results I achieved from BST have been permanent because once one achieves a higher level of consciousness, then all decisions and actions are made from this level and one deals with life with more maturity. Even my husband has noticed and has even made the unsolicited comment that I seem 'different' now--better--more in charge of my life--and, believe me, my husband has NEVER said anything like that to me before in the 30+ years we've known each other! And when I say 'never,' I don't mean 'hardly ever'--I mean 'NEVER.' My husband's surprise comment reflects what Gerdes says regarding many who undergo BST--"...they just look so much more present." [the word 'present' in italics]. I urge all NF practitioners to research BST further. I have no reason to say this to you, except that the results of BST are often so dramatic, as they were in my case. Perhaps this is because Les Gerdes used the brain wave frequencies of two Buddhist monks to set up his first model, rather than the median of brain wave samples taken throughout the world (NF). MY CONVERSATION WITH HERSHEL TOOMIM: I don't know if one can reach a higher level of consciousness through traditional NF techniques or not, but can one reach it through NF in just three days? I spoke with Hershel Toomim about my experience with BST for over an hour one day. Hershel was a true professional, and a good listener--he respected what I told him about my experience with BST, and he accepted my words on face value--after all, I had no reason to lie to him about my experience, and he recognized that. Hershel asked me how long it took me to achieve the profound change I experienced with BST, and I told him '3 days.' He said, "Three days!" Hershel was clearly impressed, and he told me he was going to explore BST further. He told me that he was positive that he could duplicate the results of BST. To my sorrow, Hershel, who I believe was 94 years old when I spoke to him, passed away shortly after our conversation. I hope other NF practitioners will pick up Hershel's torch and find out how BST works and duplicate it so that it can become more available to the public. I know that Gerdes didn't seek to have BST copyrighted (or patented? I forget which) because it would be too easy for others to duplicate once his secret was out. A BST practitioner told me that Gerdes felt that BST had a '5 year window' before others figured it out. Hershel himself was so positive that he could easily figure it out himself, but unfortunately he didn't live long enough to pursue it--so, one of you out there, please pick up Hershel's torch. BST works better than traditional NF--I'm sure of it. Read about it online; take the 5-day/10-session BST training yourself; watch the youtube videos of the severely involved child receiving BST in AZ; read the testimonials of soldiers suffering from PTSD. RE: LES GERDES: I have no allegiance to Les Gerdes himself--in fact, I fear his apparently-harsh business practices might 'do BST in'-- but I do know that his Brain State Training worked extremely well for me and for others, and that BST doesn't require dozens or hundreds of sessions to achieve desired results as does NF. And children can play with their toys if they want to, while undergoing BST, rather than be coerced into focusing on the computer screen In his book "Limitless You," Gerdes explains that he achieved better results from NF for his PTSD than he did with other treatments, such as drugs or psychotherapy (he was attacked and beaten by a gang of kids in San Francisco); but, Gerdes said, NF just didn't work fast enough, and he wanted to get on with his life. THERE'S NOTHING WRONG WITH 'BEING A GOOD MARKETER.' Van Deusen comments that Les Gerdes is a good "marketer," and I suppose Pete is right about that--but Gerdes' marketing skills DO NOT in any way diminish the genuine value of BST as a treatment. Marketing was Gerdes's forte to begin with, and he was good at it--he was a major force behind making Amazon.com the major force that it is today. But that's not an argument against the true value of BST. RE: LENS: I intend to take further sessions of BST--but I, too, wonder whether I might benefit as much or more from LENS. From what I've been told, LENS tends to be of greatest benefit to those who have undergone recent severe trauma, such as a stroke. I also read somewhere--I think in the book "A Symphony in the Brain" by Jim Robbins--that LENS has even benefited dogs that had been emotionally traumatized as a result of Hurricane Katrina and were left abandoned. These traumatized dogs, who had started snapping at people in their fear, became calm enough to be adoptable again. In other words, with LENS, as with BST, one does not have to be actively engaged in the process in order to benefit from it. You can even benefit from BST if you fall asleep. I was told during my BST sessions to simply to imagine myself relaxing in a pleasant surrounding. I chose to picture myself on a blanket on a beach in Galveston TX, where I lived for 2 years. There were a couple of other visualization things I was asked to follow for BST, but that was it. I didn't have to actively concentrate on anything, like make a submarine going up and down, or make an airplane fly, on the computer screen in front of me. STUDY BEING PERFORMED ON BST: I've considered trying traditional NF--which is why I'm on this site, to learn more about it--but, based on what I've read to date on this site, plus on Les Gerdes' book "Limitless You," plus on testimonials for BST that I've read, it sounds like BST is much faster than traditional NF and that it's the most cost-effective way to go. Another point worth mentioning: The U. of Va. is currently conducting a study on BST, with the support and cooperation of the US Military, on 350 soldiers suffering from PTSD. The reason that the military chose to pursue this study is that they are desperate to find some effective means to deal with PTSD of their returning soldiers, and testimonials of soldiers with PTSD who have undergone BST have been impressive. IMPT FOR NEUROFEEDBACK PRACTITIONERS TO KNOW: SOLDIERS SUFFERING FROM PTSD CAN RECEIVE BST FOR FREE: Which brings to mind something else that NF practitioners need to know: MOST, IF NOT ALL, BRAIN STATE TRAINING CENTERS THROUGHOUT THE US, OFFER SOLDIERS WHO SERVED IN A WAR ZONE and who are now experiencing PTSD AS A RESULT, BST TREATMENT WITHOUT CHARGE. So if you know of any soldiers suffering from PTSD, whether it be from Viet Nam or Iraq or Afghanistan, please call Brain State Technology's AZ office for more details. Being from a military family myself, I care a lot about our soldiers--a whole lot. If you know ANY soldier suffering from PTSD as a result of serving in a war zone, PLEASE pass this information on to the soldier or his family. Professional responsibility calls for it. I have great respect for all of you NF practitioners--you deserve more attention and respect than the medical community gives you. Thank you for all you've done to help people in need. Yours, Shane New Hope PA From: mercado_83 <mercado_83@...> To: Sent: Thursday, October 27, 2011 2:19 PM Subject: Re: What's the scoop on Les Fehmi I skimmed through the BST file Pete uploaded. From what I can tell, the BST software provides feedback in the form of sounds that reflect some aspects of the real-time activity of the brain, and the brain is hypothesized to automatically correct itself while listening to the sounds, and the user sits passively without actively trying to change anything (p. 9-11). To me, that sounds closer to the LENS approach than the TLC approach (the TLC approach being closer to "traditional" methods of neurofeedback). Chivers > As for BST...well, I've already written that story several times, and I'm > tired of it. Of course it "works" for some people, and doesn't for others. > All NF does. But BST, and certainly Mr. Gerdes, are much more about > marketing than about brain training. I have recently seen that they are now > calling what they do (drum-roll) > "High-resolution, Relational, Resonance-Based Electroencephalic Mirroring" > or HIRREM (which name, by the way, is TRADEMARKED!! If you put salt in a > fancy container and call it low-cal, all-natural, gluten-free NaCl > flavoring, you'll probably be able to sell it for double the price to at > least some of the market. And no matter what you call it, it still adds a > salty taste to your food, so many people will like it--same as regular salt > in a simple package. That's marketing. And if you can get a few > "celebrities" to swear that they won't eat a bite without it, well, you'll > sell even more. > > Anyone wants to read the 18-page "article" setting this forth, I've uploaded > it to in the Files area > /files/ > Anyone who is particularly interested might wish to glance through pp13-17, > where they explain the difference between HIRREM (sorry, I can't find the TM > key on my keyboard) and "regular" neurofeedback. > > Let the buyer beware, regardless of what he/she is buying. > > Pete > > " > -- > Van Deusen > pvdtlc@... > http://www.brain-trainer.com > USA 305 433 3160 > BR 47 3346 6235 > The Learning Curve, Inc. -- Watch for all that beauty reflecting from you and sing a love song to your existence. Rumi ♥ No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 9.0.920 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/3979 - Release Date: 10/27/11 12:35:00 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 27, 2011 Report Share Posted October 27, 2011 Dear Sue,With all due respect, I'm here to learn from others and to convey my own personal experiences regarding NF. Sites like this chat group allow an exchange of information that one simply can't get by reading a textbook. I'm grateful to those individuals who have posted their comments and have shown interest in my personal experiences. But no one is obligated to read my (or anyone else's) postings, Sue, so feel free to skip over mine in the future.However, Sue, I hope you DID take in what I said about most BST centers offering free services to US soldiers who served in a war zone and who are suffering PTSD. We owe it to our soldiers and their families to inform them of this. Let the soldiers decide for themselves whether they want to pursue BST or not.Thanks,ShaneFrom: Sue Breazeale <grams@...> Sent: Thursday, October 27, 2011 11:05 PMSubject: Re: ...scoop on Les Fehmi Shane, as my mother used to say, " enough is enough", o.k.? how about we change the subject? Sue On 10/27/2011 9:01 PM, Shane wrote: Thank you, , I'll have to ask Pete about that. Pete didn't mention that to me on the phone when I spoke to him a few months ago. In fact, Pete said he felt I'd be better off staying with BST (not just for myself, but for my 3 adult children). Shane From: Duncan <karenduncan@...> Sent: Thursday, October 27, 2011 10:57 PM Subject: Re: ....scoop on Les Fehmi Shane~ It has been proven that BST designs are EXACTLY some of the old TLC designs from years back. If you benefited from the BST training like you say then the same intensity with TLC training will do even more for you since the assessment one would work with would be more informative, not just the one page (heads page) Lee lifted from Pete's TLC assessment after he took Pete's training. ~ From: "Shane " <tracyshane@...> , "mercado 83" <mercado_83@...> Cc: tracyshane@... Sent: Thursday, October 27, 2011 10:44:26 PM Subject: ...scoop on Les Fehmi. Good information, . (mercado 83), That's a good comment you made below. I know that Van Deusen has reservations about Brain State Training because Les Gerdes studied under . told me over the phone that Gerdes' methods are identical to TLC's (please correct me if I'm wrong, )--but I know from personal experience that BST is NOT identical to TLC training because, as you comment in your posting, , BST is absorbed passively--it does not take active mental concentration, as does traditional NF. It is also much quicker than NF. And to ---you yourself, , said to me, "...maybe if you want to get there without doing any work for it..." or words to that effect. Well, of course I want to 'get there' the easiest possible way, , and of course I want to get there as quickly as possible! So does everybody. People have other things to devote their 'work' time to--like 'work,' for instance. That doesn't mean people are lazy, , it just means that they have other importance things going on and they want to get on with their lives. MY PERSONAL EXPERIENCE WITH BST: I've personally gone through BST--8 days, or 16 sessions, of it--in January 2011. To be frank, I just plain benefited from BST beyond my wildest expectations. I had given up all hope of a transformation in my life, but BST provided me with just that--a transformation. I now have a sense of inner calm and self-confidence that I've never known before, much more than I ever achieved with meditation techniques. And the results I achieved from BST have been permanent because once one achieves a higher level of consciousness, then all decisions and actions are made from this level and one deals with life with more maturity. Even my husband has noticed and has even made the unsolicited comment that I seem 'different' now--better--more in charge of my life--and, believe me, my husband has NEVER said anything like that to me before in the 30+ years we've known each other! And when I say 'never,' I don't mean 'hardly ever'--I mean 'NEVER.' My husband's surprise comment reflects what Gerdes says regarding many who undergo BST--"...they just look so much more present." [the word 'present' in italics]. I urge all NF practitioners to research BST further. I have no reason to say this to you, except that the results of BST are often so dramatic, as they were in my case. Perhaps this is because Les Gerdes used the brain wave frequencies of two Buddhist monks to set up his first model, rather than the median of brain wave samples taken throughout the world (NF). MY CONVERSATION WITH HERSHEL TOOMIM: I don't know if one can reach a higher level of consciousness through traditional NF techniques or not, but can one reach it through NF in just three days? I spoke with Hershel Toomim about my experience with BST for over an hour one day. Hershel was a true professional, and a good listener--he respected what I told him about my experience with BST, and he accepted my words on face value--after all, I had no reason to lie to him about my experience, and he recognized that. Hershel asked me how long it took me to achieve the profound change I experienced with BST, and I told him '3 days.' He said, "Three days!" Hershel was clearly impressed, and he told me he was going to explore BST further. He told me that he was positive that he could duplicate the results of BST. To my sorrow, Hershel, who I believe was 94 years old when I spoke to him, passed away shortly after our conversation. I hope other NF practitioners will pick up Hershel's torch and find out how BST works and duplicate it so that it can become more available to the public. I know that Gerdes didn't seek to have BST copyrighted (or patented? I forget which) because it would be too easy for others to duplicate once his secret was out. A BST practitioner told me that Gerdes felt that BST had a '5 year window' before others figured it out. Hershel himself was so positive that he could easily figure it out himself, but unfortunately he didn't live long enough to pursue it--so, one of you out there, please pick up Hershel's torch. BST works better than traditional NF--I'm sure of it. Read about it online; take the 5-day/10-session BST training yourself; watch the youtube videos of the severely involved child receiving BST in AZ; read the testimonials of soldiers suffering from PTSD. RE: LES GERDES: I have no allegiance to Les Gerdes himself--in fact, I fear his apparently-harsh business practices might 'do BST in'-- but I do know that his Brain State Training worked extremely well for me and for others, and that BST doesn't require dozens or hundreds of sessions to achieve desired results as does NF. And children can play with their toys if they want to, while undergoing BST, rather than be coerced into focusing on the computer screen In his book "Limitless You," Gerdes explains that he achieved better results from NF for his PTSD than he did with other treatments, such as drugs or psychotherapy (he was attacked and beaten by a gang of kids in San Francisco); but, Gerdes said, NF just didn't work fast enough, and he wanted to get on with his life. THERE'S NOTHING WRONG WITH 'BEING A GOOD MARKETER.' Van Deusen comments that Les Gerdes is a good "marketer," and I suppose Pete is right about that--but Gerdes' marketing skills DO NOT in any way diminish the genuine value of BST as a treatment. Marketing was Gerdes's forte to begin with, and he was good at it--he was a major force behind making Amazon.com the major force that it is today. But that's not an argument against the true value of BST. RE: LENS: I intend to take further sessions of BST--but I, too, wonder whether I might benefit as much or more from LENS. From what I've been told, LENS tends to be of greatest benefit to those who have undergone recent severe trauma, such as a stroke. I also read somewhere--I think in the book "A Symphony in the Brain" by Jim Robbins--that LENS has even benefited dogs that had been emotionally traumatized as a result of Hurricane Katrina and were left abandoned. These traumatized dogs, who had started snapping at people in their fear, became calm enough to be adoptable again. In other words, with LENS, as with BST, one does not have to be actively engaged in the process in order to benefit from it. You can even benefit from BST if you fall asleep. I was told during my BST sessions to simply to imagine myself relaxing in a pleasant surrounding. I chose to picture myself on a blanket on a beach in Galveston TX, where I lived for 2 years. There were a couple of other visualization things I was asked to follow for BST, but that was it. I didn't have to actively concentrate on anything, like make a submarine going up and down, or make an airplane fly, on the computer screen in front of me. STUDY BEING PERFORMED ON BST: I've considered trying traditional NF--which is why I'm on this site, to learn more about it--but, based on what I've read to date on this site, plus on Les Gerdes' book "Limitless You," plus on testimonials for BST that I've read, it sounds like BST is much faster than traditional NF and that it's the most cost-effective way to go. Another point worth mentioning: The U. of Va. is currently conducting a study on BST, with the support and cooperation of the US Military, on 350 soldiers suffering from PTSD. The reason that the military chose to pursue this study is that they are desperate to find some effective means to deal with PTSD of their returning soldiers, and testimonials of soldiers with PTSD who have undergone BST have been impressive. IMPT FOR NEUROFEEDBACK PRACTITIONERS TO KNOW: SOLDIERS SUFFERING FROM PTSD CAN RECEIVE BST FOR FREE: Which brings to mind something else that NF practitioners need to know: MOST, IF NOT ALL, BRAIN STATE TRAINING CENTERS THROUGHOUT THE US, OFFER SOLDIERS WHO SERVED IN A WAR ZONE and who are now experiencing PTSD AS A RESULT, BST TREATMENT WITHOUT CHARGE. So if you know of any soldiers suffering from PTSD, whether it be from Viet Nam or Iraq or Afghanistan, please call Brain State Technology's AZ office for more details. Being from a military family myself, I care a lot about our soldiers--a whole lot. If you know ANY soldier suffering from PTSD as a result of serving in a war zone, PLEASE pass this information on to the soldier or his family. Professional responsibility calls for it. I have great respect for all of you NF practitioners--you deserve more attention and respect than the medical community gives you. Thank you for all you've done to help people in need. Yours, Shane New Hope PA From: mercado_83 <mercado_83@...> To: Sent: Thursday, October 27, 2011 2:19 PM Subject: Re: What's the scoop on Les Fehmi I skimmed through the BST file Pete uploaded. From what I can tell, the BST software provides feedback in the form of sounds that reflect some aspects of the real-time activity of the brain, and the brain is hypothesized to automatically correct itself while listening to the sounds, and the user sits passively without actively trying to change anything (p. 9-11). To me, that sounds closer to the LENS approach than the TLC approach (the TLC approach being closer to "traditional" methods of neurofeedback). Chivers > As for BST...well, I've already written that story several times, and I'm > tired of it. Of course it "works" for some people, and doesn't for others. > All NF does. But BST, and certainly Mr. Gerdes, are much more about > marketing than about brain training. I have recently seen that they are now > calling what they do (drum-roll) > "High-resolution, Relational, Resonance-Based Electroencephalic Mirroring" > or HIRREM (which name, by the way, is TRADEMARKED!! If you put salt in a > fancy container and call it low-cal, all-natural, gluten-free NaCl > flavoring, you'll probably be able to sell it for double the price to at > least some of the market. And no matter what you call it, it still adds a > salty taste to your food, so many people will like it--same as regular salt > in a simple package. That's marketing. And if you can get a few > "celebrities" to swear that they won't eat a bite without it, well, you'll > sell even more. > > Anyone wants to read the 18-page "article" setting this forth, I've uploaded > it to in the Files area > /files/ > Anyone who is particularly interested might wish to glance through pp13-17, > where they explain the difference between HIRREM (sorry, I can't find the TM > key on my keyboard) and "regular" neurofeedback. > > Let the buyer beware, regardless of what he/she is buying. > > Pete > > " > -- > Van Deusen > pvdtlc@... > http://www.brain-trainer.com > USA 305 433 3160 > BR 47 3346 6235 > The Learning Curve, Inc. -- Watch for all that beauty reflecting from you and sing a love song to your existence. Rumi ♥ No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 9.0.920 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/3979 - Release Date: 10/27/11 12:35:00 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 27, 2011 Report Share Posted October 27, 2011 Dear Sue,With all due respect, I'm here to learn from others and to convey my own personal experiences regarding NF. Sites like this chat group allow an exchange of information that one simply can't get by reading a textbook. I'm grateful to those individuals who have posted their comments and have shown interest in my personal experiences. But no one is obligated to read my (or anyone else's) postings, Sue, so feel free to skip over mine in the future.However, Sue, I hope you DID take in what I said about most BST centers offering free services to US soldiers who served in a war zone and who are suffering PTSD. We owe it to our soldiers and their families to inform them of this. Let the soldiers decide for themselves whether they want to pursue BST or not.Thanks,ShaneFrom: Sue Breazeale <grams@...> Sent: Thursday, October 27, 2011 11:05 PMSubject: Re: ...scoop on Les Fehmi Shane, as my mother used to say, " enough is enough", o.k.? how about we change the subject? Sue On 10/27/2011 9:01 PM, Shane wrote: Thank you, , I'll have to ask Pete about that. Pete didn't mention that to me on the phone when I spoke to him a few months ago. In fact, Pete said he felt I'd be better off staying with BST (not just for myself, but for my 3 adult children). Shane From: Duncan <karenduncan@...> Sent: Thursday, October 27, 2011 10:57 PM Subject: Re: ....scoop on Les Fehmi Shane~ It has been proven that BST designs are EXACTLY some of the old TLC designs from years back. If you benefited from the BST training like you say then the same intensity with TLC training will do even more for you since the assessment one would work with would be more informative, not just the one page (heads page) Lee lifted from Pete's TLC assessment after he took Pete's training. ~ From: "Shane " <tracyshane@...> , "mercado 83" <mercado_83@...> Cc: tracyshane@... Sent: Thursday, October 27, 2011 10:44:26 PM Subject: ...scoop on Les Fehmi. Good information, . (mercado 83), That's a good comment you made below. I know that Van Deusen has reservations about Brain State Training because Les Gerdes studied under . told me over the phone that Gerdes' methods are identical to TLC's (please correct me if I'm wrong, )--but I know from personal experience that BST is NOT identical to TLC training because, as you comment in your posting, , BST is absorbed passively--it does not take active mental concentration, as does traditional NF. It is also much quicker than NF. And to ---you yourself, , said to me, "...maybe if you want to get there without doing any work for it..." or words to that effect. Well, of course I want to 'get there' the easiest possible way, , and of course I want to get there as quickly as possible! So does everybody. People have other things to devote their 'work' time to--like 'work,' for instance. That doesn't mean people are lazy, , it just means that they have other importance things going on and they want to get on with their lives. MY PERSONAL EXPERIENCE WITH BST: I've personally gone through BST--8 days, or 16 sessions, of it--in January 2011. To be frank, I just plain benefited from BST beyond my wildest expectations. I had given up all hope of a transformation in my life, but BST provided me with just that--a transformation. I now have a sense of inner calm and self-confidence that I've never known before, much more than I ever achieved with meditation techniques. And the results I achieved from BST have been permanent because once one achieves a higher level of consciousness, then all decisions and actions are made from this level and one deals with life with more maturity. Even my husband has noticed and has even made the unsolicited comment that I seem 'different' now--better--more in charge of my life--and, believe me, my husband has NEVER said anything like that to me before in the 30+ years we've known each other! And when I say 'never,' I don't mean 'hardly ever'--I mean 'NEVER.' My husband's surprise comment reflects what Gerdes says regarding many who undergo BST--"...they just look so much more present." [the word 'present' in italics]. I urge all NF practitioners to research BST further. I have no reason to say this to you, except that the results of BST are often so dramatic, as they were in my case. Perhaps this is because Les Gerdes used the brain wave frequencies of two Buddhist monks to set up his first model, rather than the median of brain wave samples taken throughout the world (NF). MY CONVERSATION WITH HERSHEL TOOMIM: I don't know if one can reach a higher level of consciousness through traditional NF techniques or not, but can one reach it through NF in just three days? I spoke with Hershel Toomim about my experience with BST for over an hour one day. Hershel was a true professional, and a good listener--he respected what I told him about my experience with BST, and he accepted my words on face value--after all, I had no reason to lie to him about my experience, and he recognized that. Hershel asked me how long it took me to achieve the profound change I experienced with BST, and I told him '3 days.' He said, "Three days!" Hershel was clearly impressed, and he told me he was going to explore BST further. He told me that he was positive that he could duplicate the results of BST. To my sorrow, Hershel, who I believe was 94 years old when I spoke to him, passed away shortly after our conversation. I hope other NF practitioners will pick up Hershel's torch and find out how BST works and duplicate it so that it can become more available to the public. I know that Gerdes didn't seek to have BST copyrighted (or patented? I forget which) because it would be too easy for others to duplicate once his secret was out. A BST practitioner told me that Gerdes felt that BST had a '5 year window' before others figured it out. Hershel himself was so positive that he could easily figure it out himself, but unfortunately he didn't live long enough to pursue it--so, one of you out there, please pick up Hershel's torch. BST works better than traditional NF--I'm sure of it. Read about it online; take the 5-day/10-session BST training yourself; watch the youtube videos of the severely involved child receiving BST in AZ; read the testimonials of soldiers suffering from PTSD. RE: LES GERDES: I have no allegiance to Les Gerdes himself--in fact, I fear his apparently-harsh business practices might 'do BST in'-- but I do know that his Brain State Training worked extremely well for me and for others, and that BST doesn't require dozens or hundreds of sessions to achieve desired results as does NF. And children can play with their toys if they want to, while undergoing BST, rather than be coerced into focusing on the computer screen In his book "Limitless You," Gerdes explains that he achieved better results from NF for his PTSD than he did with other treatments, such as drugs or psychotherapy (he was attacked and beaten by a gang of kids in San Francisco); but, Gerdes said, NF just didn't work fast enough, and he wanted to get on with his life. THERE'S NOTHING WRONG WITH 'BEING A GOOD MARKETER.' Van Deusen comments that Les Gerdes is a good "marketer," and I suppose Pete is right about that--but Gerdes' marketing skills DO NOT in any way diminish the genuine value of BST as a treatment. Marketing was Gerdes's forte to begin with, and he was good at it--he was a major force behind making Amazon.com the major force that it is today. But that's not an argument against the true value of BST. RE: LENS: I intend to take further sessions of BST--but I, too, wonder whether I might benefit as much or more from LENS. From what I've been told, LENS tends to be of greatest benefit to those who have undergone recent severe trauma, such as a stroke. I also read somewhere--I think in the book "A Symphony in the Brain" by Jim Robbins--that LENS has even benefited dogs that had been emotionally traumatized as a result of Hurricane Katrina and were left abandoned. These traumatized dogs, who had started snapping at people in their fear, became calm enough to be adoptable again. In other words, with LENS, as with BST, one does not have to be actively engaged in the process in order to benefit from it. You can even benefit from BST if you fall asleep. I was told during my BST sessions to simply to imagine myself relaxing in a pleasant surrounding. I chose to picture myself on a blanket on a beach in Galveston TX, where I lived for 2 years. There were a couple of other visualization things I was asked to follow for BST, but that was it. I didn't have to actively concentrate on anything, like make a submarine going up and down, or make an airplane fly, on the computer screen in front of me. STUDY BEING PERFORMED ON BST: I've considered trying traditional NF--which is why I'm on this site, to learn more about it--but, based on what I've read to date on this site, plus on Les Gerdes' book "Limitless You," plus on testimonials for BST that I've read, it sounds like BST is much faster than traditional NF and that it's the most cost-effective way to go. Another point worth mentioning: The U. of Va. is currently conducting a study on BST, with the support and cooperation of the US Military, on 350 soldiers suffering from PTSD. The reason that the military chose to pursue this study is that they are desperate to find some effective means to deal with PTSD of their returning soldiers, and testimonials of soldiers with PTSD who have undergone BST have been impressive. IMPT FOR NEUROFEEDBACK PRACTITIONERS TO KNOW: SOLDIERS SUFFERING FROM PTSD CAN RECEIVE BST FOR FREE: Which brings to mind something else that NF practitioners need to know: MOST, IF NOT ALL, BRAIN STATE TRAINING CENTERS THROUGHOUT THE US, OFFER SOLDIERS WHO SERVED IN A WAR ZONE and who are now experiencing PTSD AS A RESULT, BST TREATMENT WITHOUT CHARGE. So if you know of any soldiers suffering from PTSD, whether it be from Viet Nam or Iraq or Afghanistan, please call Brain State Technology's AZ office for more details. Being from a military family myself, I care a lot about our soldiers--a whole lot. If you know ANY soldier suffering from PTSD as a result of serving in a war zone, PLEASE pass this information on to the soldier or his family. Professional responsibility calls for it. I have great respect for all of you NF practitioners--you deserve more attention and respect than the medical community gives you. Thank you for all you've done to help people in need. Yours, Shane New Hope PA From: mercado_83 <mercado_83@...> To: Sent: Thursday, October 27, 2011 2:19 PM Subject: Re: What's the scoop on Les Fehmi I skimmed through the BST file Pete uploaded. From what I can tell, the BST software provides feedback in the form of sounds that reflect some aspects of the real-time activity of the brain, and the brain is hypothesized to automatically correct itself while listening to the sounds, and the user sits passively without actively trying to change anything (p. 9-11). To me, that sounds closer to the LENS approach than the TLC approach (the TLC approach being closer to "traditional" methods of neurofeedback). Chivers > As for BST...well, I've already written that story several times, and I'm > tired of it. Of course it "works" for some people, and doesn't for others. > All NF does. But BST, and certainly Mr. Gerdes, are much more about > marketing than about brain training. I have recently seen that they are now > calling what they do (drum-roll) > "High-resolution, Relational, Resonance-Based Electroencephalic Mirroring" > or HIRREM (which name, by the way, is TRADEMARKED!! If you put salt in a > fancy container and call it low-cal, all-natural, gluten-free NaCl > flavoring, you'll probably be able to sell it for double the price to at > least some of the market. And no matter what you call it, it still adds a > salty taste to your food, so many people will like it--same as regular salt > in a simple package. That's marketing. And if you can get a few > "celebrities" to swear that they won't eat a bite without it, well, you'll > sell even more. > > Anyone wants to read the 18-page "article" setting this forth, I've uploaded > it to in the Files area > /files/ > Anyone who is particularly interested might wish to glance through pp13-17, > where they explain the difference between HIRREM (sorry, I can't find the TM > key on my keyboard) and "regular" neurofeedback. > > Let the buyer beware, regardless of what he/she is buying. > > Pete > > " > -- > Van Deusen > pvdtlc@... > http://www.brain-trainer.com > USA 305 433 3160 > BR 47 3346 6235 > The Learning Curve, Inc. -- Watch for all that beauty reflecting from you and sing a love song to your existence. Rumi ♥ No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 9.0.920 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/3979 - Release Date: 10/27/11 12:35:00 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 27, 2011 Report Share Posted October 27, 2011 you could be right, Shane. Please excuse me for addressing my last email to you alone. It would be better to address it to the whole group and ask that we move on from this subject. Sometimes this group seems to get stuck on topics, as it seems with this one- in my opinion. But as you suggested, I could just not read the emails on this topic. Sue On 10/27/2011 10:01 PM, Shane wrote: Dear Sue, With all due respect, I'm here to learn from others and to convey my own personal experiences regarding NF. Sites like this chat group allow an exchange of information that one simply can't get by reading a textbook. I'm grateful to those individuals who have posted their comments and have shown interest in my personal experiences. But no one is obligated to read my (or anyone else's) postings, Sue, so feel free to skip over mine in the future. However, Sue, I hope you DID take in what I said about most BST centers offering free services to US soldiers who served in a war zone and who are suffering PTSD. We owe it to our soldiers and their families to inform them of this. Let the soldiers decide for themselves whether they want to pursue BST or not. Thanks, Shane From: Sue Breazeale <grams@...> Sent: Thursday, October 27, 2011 11:05 PM Subject: Re: ....scoop on Les Fehmi Shane, as my mother used to say, " enough is enough", o.k.? how about we change the subject? Sue On 10/27/2011 9:01 PM, Shane wrote: Thank you, , I'll have to ask Pete about that. Pete didn't mention that to me on the phone when I spoke to him a few months ago. In fact, Pete said he felt I'd be better off staying with BST (not just for myself, but for my 3 adult children). Shane From: Duncan <karenduncan@...> Sent: Thursday, October 27, 2011 10:57 PM Subject: Re: ...scoop on Les Fehmi Shane~ It has been proven that BST designs are EXACTLY some of the old TLC designs from years back. If you benefited from the BST training like you say then the same intensity with TLC training will do even more for you since the assessment one would work with would be more informative, not just the one page (heads page) Lee lifted from Pete's TLC assessment after he took Pete's training. ~ From: "Shane " <tracyshane@...> , "mercado 83" <mercado_83@...> Cc: tracyshane@... Sent: Thursday, October 27, 2011 10:44:26 PM Subject: ....scoop on Les Fehmi. Good information, . (mercado 83), That's a good comment you made below. I know that Van Deusen has reservations about Brain State Training because Les Gerdes studied under . told me over the phone that Gerdes' methods are identical to TLC's (please correct me if I'm wrong, )--but I know from personal experience that BST is NOT identical to TLC training because, as you comment in your posting, , BST is absorbed passively--it does not take active mental concentration, as does traditional NF. It is also much quicker than NF. And to ---you yourself, , said to me, "...maybe if you want to get there without doing any work for it..." or words to that effect. Well, of course I want to 'get there' the easiest possible way, , and of course I want to get there as quickly as possible! So does everybody. People have other things to devote their 'work' time to--like 'work,' for instance. That doesn't mean people are lazy, , it just means that they have other importance things going on and they want to get on with their lives. MY PERSONAL EXPERIENCE WITH BST: I've personally gone through BST--8 days, or 16 sessions, of it--in January 2011. To be frank, I just plain benefited from BST beyond my wildest expectations. I had given up all hope of a transformation in my life, but BST provided me with just that--a transformation. I now have a sense of inner calm and self-confidence that I've never known before, much more than I ever achieved with meditation techniques. And the results I achieved from BST have been permanent because once one achieves a higher level of consciousness, then all decisions and actions are made from this level and one deals with life with more maturity. Even my husband has noticed and has even made the unsolicited comment that I seem 'different' now--better--more in charge of my life--and, believe me, my husband has NEVER said anything like that to me before in the 30+ years we've known each other! And when I say 'never,' I don't mean 'hardly ever'--I mean 'NEVER.' My husband's surprise comment reflects what Gerdes says regarding many who undergo BST--"...they just look so much more present." [the word 'present' in italics]. I urge all NF practitioners to research BST further. I have no reason to say this to you, except that the results of BST are often so dramatic, as they were in my case. Perhaps this is because Les Gerdes used the brain wave frequencies of two Buddhist monks to set up his first model, rather than the median of brain wave samples taken throughout the world (NF). MY CONVERSATION WITH HERSHEL TOOMIM: I don't know if one can reach a higher level of consciousness through traditional NF techniques or not, but can one reach it through NF in just three days? I spoke with Hershel Toomim about my experience with BST for over an hour one day. Hershel was a true professional, and a good listener--he respected what I told him about my experience with BST, and he accepted my words on face value--after all, I had no reason to lie to him about my experience, and he recognized that. Hershel asked me how long it took me to achieve the profound change I experienced with BST, and I told him '3 days.' He said, "Three days!" Hershel was clearly impressed, and he told me he was going to explore BST further. He told me that he was positive that he could duplicate the results of BST. To my sorrow, Hershel, who I believe was 94 years old when I spoke to him, passed away shortly after our conversation. I hope other NF practitioners will pick up Hershel's torch and find out how BST works and duplicate it so that it can become more available to the public. I know that Gerdes didn't seek to have BST copyrighted (or patented? I forget which) because it would be too easy for others to duplicate once his secret was out. A BST practitioner told me that Gerdes felt that BST had a '5 year window' before others figured it out. Hershel himself was so positive that he could easily figure it out himself, but unfortunately he didn't live long enough to pursue it--so, one of you out there, please pick up Hershel's torch. BST works better than traditional NF--I'm sure of it. Read about it online; take the 5-day/10-session BST training yourself; watch the youtube videos of the severely involved child receiving BST in AZ; read the testimonials of soldiers suffering from PTSD. RE: LES GERDES: I have no allegiance to Les Gerdes himself--in fact, I fear his apparently-harsh business practices might 'do BST in'-- but I do know that his Brain State Training worked extremely well for me and for others, and that BST doesn't require dozens or hundreds of sessions to achieve desired results as does NF. And children can play with their toys if they want to, while undergoing BST, rather than be coerced into focusing on the computer screen In his book "Limitless You," Gerdes explains that he achieved better results from NF for his PTSD than he did with other treatments, such as drugs or psychotherapy (he was attacked and beaten by a gang of kids in San Francisco); but, Gerdes said, NF just didn't work fast enough, and he wanted to get on with his life. THERE'S NOTHING WRONG WITH 'BEING A GOOD MARKETER.' Van Deusen comments that Les Gerdes is a good "marketer," and I suppose Pete is right about that--but Gerdes' marketing skills DO NOT in any way diminish the genuine value of BST as a treatment. Marketing was Gerdes's forte to begin with, and he was good at it--he was a major force behind making Amazon.com the major force that it is today. But that's not an argument against the true value of BST. RE: LENS: I intend to take further sessions of BST--but I, too, wonder whether I might benefit as much or more from LENS. From what I've been told, LENS tends to be of greatest benefit to those who have undergone recent severe trauma, such as a stroke. I also read somewhere--I think in the book "A Symphony in the Brain" by Jim Robbins--that LENS has even benefited dogs that had been emotionally traumatized as a result of Hurricane Katrina and were left abandoned. These traumatized dogs, who had started snapping at people in their fear, became calm enough to be adoptable again. In other words, with LENS, as with BST, one does not have to be actively engaged in the process in order to benefit from it. You can even benefit from BST if you fall asleep. I was told during my BST sessions to simply to imagine myself relaxing in a pleasant surrounding. I chose to picture myself on a blanket on a beach in Galveston TX, where I lived for 2 years. There were a couple of other visualization things I was asked to follow for BST, but that was it. I didn't have to actively concentrate on anything, like make a submarine going up and down, or make an airplane fly, on the computer screen in front of me. STUDY BEING PERFORMED ON BST: I've considered trying traditional NF--which is why I'm on this site, to learn more about it--but, based on what I've read to date on this site, plus on Les Gerdes' book "Limitless You," plus on testimonials for BST that I've read, it sounds like BST is much faster than traditional NF and that it's the most cost-effective way to go. Another point worth mentioning: The U. of Va. is currently conducting a study on BST, with the support and cooperation of the US Military, on 350 soldiers suffering from PTSD. The reason that the military chose to pursue this study is that they are desperate to find some effective means to deal with PTSD of their returning soldiers, and testimonials of soldiers with PTSD who have undergone BST have been impressive. IMPT FOR NEUROFEEDBACK PRACTITIONERS TO KNOW: SOLDIERS SUFFERING FROM PTSD CAN RECEIVE BST FOR FREE: Which brings to mind something else that NF practitioners need to know: MOST, IF NOT ALL, BRAIN STATE TRAINING CENTERS THROUGHOUT THE US, OFFER SOLDIERS WHO SERVED IN A WAR ZONE and who are now experiencing PTSD AS A RESULT, BST TREATMENT WITHOUT CHARGE. So if you know of any soldiers suffering from PTSD, whether it be from Viet Nam or Iraq or Afghanistan, please call Brain State Technology's AZ office for more details. Being from a military family myself, I care a lot about our soldiers--a whole lot. If you know ANY soldier suffering from PTSD as a result of serving in a war zone, PLEASE pass this information on to the soldier or his family. Professional responsibility calls for it. I have great respect for all of you NF practitioners--you deserve more attention and respect than the medical community gives you. Thank you for all you've done to help people in need. Yours, Shane New Hope PA From: mercado_83 <mercado_83@...> To: Sent: Thursday, October 27, 2011 2:19 PM Subject: Re: What's the scoop on Les Fehmi I skimmed through the BST file Pete uploaded. From what I can tell, the BST software provides feedback in the form of sounds that reflect some aspects of the real-time activity of the brain, and the brain is hypothesized to automatically correct itself while listening to the sounds, and the user sits passively without actively trying to change anything (p. 9-11). To me, that sounds closer to the LENS approach than the TLC approach (the TLC approach being closer to "traditional" methods of neurofeedback). Chivers > As for BST...well, I've already written that story several times, and I'm > tired of it. Of course it "works" for some people, and doesn't for others. > All NF does. But BST, and certainly Mr. Gerdes, are much more about > marketing than about brain training. I have recently seen that they are now > calling what they do (drum-roll) > "High-resolution, Relational, Resonance-Based Electroencephalic Mirroring" > or HIRREM (which name, by the way, is TRADEMARKED!! If you put salt in a > fancy container and call it low-cal, all-natural, gluten-free NaCl > flavoring, you'll probably be able to sell it for double the price to at > least some of the market. And no matter what you call it, it still adds a > salty taste to your food, so many people will like it--same as regular salt > in a simple package. That's marketing. And if you can get a few > "celebrities" to swear that they won't eat a bite without it, well, you'll > sell even more. > > Anyone wants to read the 18-page "article" setting this forth, I've uploaded > it to in the Files area > /files/ > Anyone who is particularly interested might wish to glance through pp13-17, > where they explain the difference between HIRREM (sorry, I can't find the TM > key on my keyboard) and "regular" neurofeedback. > > Let the buyer beware, regardless of what he/she is buying. > > Pete > > " > -- > Van Deusen > pvdtlc@... > http://www.brain-trainer.com > USA 305 433 3160 > BR 47 3346 6235 > The Learning Curve, Inc. -- Watch for all that beauty reflecting from you and sing a love song to your existence. Rumi ♥ No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 9.0.920 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/3979 - Release Date: 10/27/11 12:35:00 No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 9.0.920 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/3979 - Release Date: 10/27/11 12:35:00 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 27, 2011 Report Share Posted October 27, 2011 you could be right, Shane. Please excuse me for addressing my last email to you alone. It would be better to address it to the whole group and ask that we move on from this subject. Sometimes this group seems to get stuck on topics, as it seems with this one- in my opinion. But as you suggested, I could just not read the emails on this topic. Sue On 10/27/2011 10:01 PM, Shane wrote: Dear Sue, With all due respect, I'm here to learn from others and to convey my own personal experiences regarding NF. Sites like this chat group allow an exchange of information that one simply can't get by reading a textbook. I'm grateful to those individuals who have posted their comments and have shown interest in my personal experiences. But no one is obligated to read my (or anyone else's) postings, Sue, so feel free to skip over mine in the future. However, Sue, I hope you DID take in what I said about most BST centers offering free services to US soldiers who served in a war zone and who are suffering PTSD. We owe it to our soldiers and their families to inform them of this. Let the soldiers decide for themselves whether they want to pursue BST or not. Thanks, Shane From: Sue Breazeale <grams@...> Sent: Thursday, October 27, 2011 11:05 PM Subject: Re: ....scoop on Les Fehmi Shane, as my mother used to say, " enough is enough", o.k.? how about we change the subject? Sue On 10/27/2011 9:01 PM, Shane wrote: Thank you, , I'll have to ask Pete about that. Pete didn't mention that to me on the phone when I spoke to him a few months ago. In fact, Pete said he felt I'd be better off staying with BST (not just for myself, but for my 3 adult children). Shane From: Duncan <karenduncan@...> Sent: Thursday, October 27, 2011 10:57 PM Subject: Re: ...scoop on Les Fehmi Shane~ It has been proven that BST designs are EXACTLY some of the old TLC designs from years back. If you benefited from the BST training like you say then the same intensity with TLC training will do even more for you since the assessment one would work with would be more informative, not just the one page (heads page) Lee lifted from Pete's TLC assessment after he took Pete's training. ~ From: "Shane " <tracyshane@...> , "mercado 83" <mercado_83@...> Cc: tracyshane@... Sent: Thursday, October 27, 2011 10:44:26 PM Subject: ....scoop on Les Fehmi. Good information, . (mercado 83), That's a good comment you made below. I know that Van Deusen has reservations about Brain State Training because Les Gerdes studied under . told me over the phone that Gerdes' methods are identical to TLC's (please correct me if I'm wrong, )--but I know from personal experience that BST is NOT identical to TLC training because, as you comment in your posting, , BST is absorbed passively--it does not take active mental concentration, as does traditional NF. It is also much quicker than NF. And to ---you yourself, , said to me, "...maybe if you want to get there without doing any work for it..." or words to that effect. Well, of course I want to 'get there' the easiest possible way, , and of course I want to get there as quickly as possible! So does everybody. People have other things to devote their 'work' time to--like 'work,' for instance. That doesn't mean people are lazy, , it just means that they have other importance things going on and they want to get on with their lives. MY PERSONAL EXPERIENCE WITH BST: I've personally gone through BST--8 days, or 16 sessions, of it--in January 2011. To be frank, I just plain benefited from BST beyond my wildest expectations. I had given up all hope of a transformation in my life, but BST provided me with just that--a transformation. I now have a sense of inner calm and self-confidence that I've never known before, much more than I ever achieved with meditation techniques. And the results I achieved from BST have been permanent because once one achieves a higher level of consciousness, then all decisions and actions are made from this level and one deals with life with more maturity. Even my husband has noticed and has even made the unsolicited comment that I seem 'different' now--better--more in charge of my life--and, believe me, my husband has NEVER said anything like that to me before in the 30+ years we've known each other! And when I say 'never,' I don't mean 'hardly ever'--I mean 'NEVER.' My husband's surprise comment reflects what Gerdes says regarding many who undergo BST--"...they just look so much more present." [the word 'present' in italics]. I urge all NF practitioners to research BST further. I have no reason to say this to you, except that the results of BST are often so dramatic, as they were in my case. Perhaps this is because Les Gerdes used the brain wave frequencies of two Buddhist monks to set up his first model, rather than the median of brain wave samples taken throughout the world (NF). MY CONVERSATION WITH HERSHEL TOOMIM: I don't know if one can reach a higher level of consciousness through traditional NF techniques or not, but can one reach it through NF in just three days? I spoke with Hershel Toomim about my experience with BST for over an hour one day. Hershel was a true professional, and a good listener--he respected what I told him about my experience with BST, and he accepted my words on face value--after all, I had no reason to lie to him about my experience, and he recognized that. Hershel asked me how long it took me to achieve the profound change I experienced with BST, and I told him '3 days.' He said, "Three days!" Hershel was clearly impressed, and he told me he was going to explore BST further. He told me that he was positive that he could duplicate the results of BST. To my sorrow, Hershel, who I believe was 94 years old when I spoke to him, passed away shortly after our conversation. I hope other NF practitioners will pick up Hershel's torch and find out how BST works and duplicate it so that it can become more available to the public. I know that Gerdes didn't seek to have BST copyrighted (or patented? I forget which) because it would be too easy for others to duplicate once his secret was out. A BST practitioner told me that Gerdes felt that BST had a '5 year window' before others figured it out. Hershel himself was so positive that he could easily figure it out himself, but unfortunately he didn't live long enough to pursue it--so, one of you out there, please pick up Hershel's torch. BST works better than traditional NF--I'm sure of it. Read about it online; take the 5-day/10-session BST training yourself; watch the youtube videos of the severely involved child receiving BST in AZ; read the testimonials of soldiers suffering from PTSD. RE: LES GERDES: I have no allegiance to Les Gerdes himself--in fact, I fear his apparently-harsh business practices might 'do BST in'-- but I do know that his Brain State Training worked extremely well for me and for others, and that BST doesn't require dozens or hundreds of sessions to achieve desired results as does NF. And children can play with their toys if they want to, while undergoing BST, rather than be coerced into focusing on the computer screen In his book "Limitless You," Gerdes explains that he achieved better results from NF for his PTSD than he did with other treatments, such as drugs or psychotherapy (he was attacked and beaten by a gang of kids in San Francisco); but, Gerdes said, NF just didn't work fast enough, and he wanted to get on with his life. THERE'S NOTHING WRONG WITH 'BEING A GOOD MARKETER.' Van Deusen comments that Les Gerdes is a good "marketer," and I suppose Pete is right about that--but Gerdes' marketing skills DO NOT in any way diminish the genuine value of BST as a treatment. Marketing was Gerdes's forte to begin with, and he was good at it--he was a major force behind making Amazon.com the major force that it is today. But that's not an argument against the true value of BST. RE: LENS: I intend to take further sessions of BST--but I, too, wonder whether I might benefit as much or more from LENS. From what I've been told, LENS tends to be of greatest benefit to those who have undergone recent severe trauma, such as a stroke. I also read somewhere--I think in the book "A Symphony in the Brain" by Jim Robbins--that LENS has even benefited dogs that had been emotionally traumatized as a result of Hurricane Katrina and were left abandoned. These traumatized dogs, who had started snapping at people in their fear, became calm enough to be adoptable again. In other words, with LENS, as with BST, one does not have to be actively engaged in the process in order to benefit from it. You can even benefit from BST if you fall asleep. I was told during my BST sessions to simply to imagine myself relaxing in a pleasant surrounding. I chose to picture myself on a blanket on a beach in Galveston TX, where I lived for 2 years. There were a couple of other visualization things I was asked to follow for BST, but that was it. I didn't have to actively concentrate on anything, like make a submarine going up and down, or make an airplane fly, on the computer screen in front of me. STUDY BEING PERFORMED ON BST: I've considered trying traditional NF--which is why I'm on this site, to learn more about it--but, based on what I've read to date on this site, plus on Les Gerdes' book "Limitless You," plus on testimonials for BST that I've read, it sounds like BST is much faster than traditional NF and that it's the most cost-effective way to go. Another point worth mentioning: The U. of Va. is currently conducting a study on BST, with the support and cooperation of the US Military, on 350 soldiers suffering from PTSD. The reason that the military chose to pursue this study is that they are desperate to find some effective means to deal with PTSD of their returning soldiers, and testimonials of soldiers with PTSD who have undergone BST have been impressive. IMPT FOR NEUROFEEDBACK PRACTITIONERS TO KNOW: SOLDIERS SUFFERING FROM PTSD CAN RECEIVE BST FOR FREE: Which brings to mind something else that NF practitioners need to know: MOST, IF NOT ALL, BRAIN STATE TRAINING CENTERS THROUGHOUT THE US, OFFER SOLDIERS WHO SERVED IN A WAR ZONE and who are now experiencing PTSD AS A RESULT, BST TREATMENT WITHOUT CHARGE. So if you know of any soldiers suffering from PTSD, whether it be from Viet Nam or Iraq or Afghanistan, please call Brain State Technology's AZ office for more details. Being from a military family myself, I care a lot about our soldiers--a whole lot. If you know ANY soldier suffering from PTSD as a result of serving in a war zone, PLEASE pass this information on to the soldier or his family. Professional responsibility calls for it. I have great respect for all of you NF practitioners--you deserve more attention and respect than the medical community gives you. Thank you for all you've done to help people in need. Yours, Shane New Hope PA From: mercado_83 <mercado_83@...> To: Sent: Thursday, October 27, 2011 2:19 PM Subject: Re: What's the scoop on Les Fehmi I skimmed through the BST file Pete uploaded. From what I can tell, the BST software provides feedback in the form of sounds that reflect some aspects of the real-time activity of the brain, and the brain is hypothesized to automatically correct itself while listening to the sounds, and the user sits passively without actively trying to change anything (p. 9-11). To me, that sounds closer to the LENS approach than the TLC approach (the TLC approach being closer to "traditional" methods of neurofeedback). Chivers > As for BST...well, I've already written that story several times, and I'm > tired of it. Of course it "works" for some people, and doesn't for others. > All NF does. But BST, and certainly Mr. Gerdes, are much more about > marketing than about brain training. I have recently seen that they are now > calling what they do (drum-roll) > "High-resolution, Relational, Resonance-Based Electroencephalic Mirroring" > or HIRREM (which name, by the way, is TRADEMARKED!! If you put salt in a > fancy container and call it low-cal, all-natural, gluten-free NaCl > flavoring, you'll probably be able to sell it for double the price to at > least some of the market. And no matter what you call it, it still adds a > salty taste to your food, so many people will like it--same as regular salt > in a simple package. That's marketing. And if you can get a few > "celebrities" to swear that they won't eat a bite without it, well, you'll > sell even more. > > Anyone wants to read the 18-page "article" setting this forth, I've uploaded > it to in the Files area > /files/ > Anyone who is particularly interested might wish to glance through pp13-17, > where they explain the difference between HIRREM (sorry, I can't find the TM > key on my keyboard) and "regular" neurofeedback. > > Let the buyer beware, regardless of what he/she is buying. > > Pete > > " > -- > Van Deusen > pvdtlc@... > http://www.brain-trainer.com > USA 305 433 3160 > BR 47 3346 6235 > The Learning Curve, Inc. -- Watch for all that beauty reflecting from you and sing a love song to your existence. Rumi ♥ No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 9.0.920 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/3979 - Release Date: 10/27/11 12:35:00 No virus found in this incoming message. 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Guest guest Posted October 28, 2011 Report Share Posted October 28, 2011 Sue.It's not even clear to me what subject you are referring to. Could you please clarify? I left 'scoop on Les Fehmi' as the subject title for this posting because that seems to be the connection here, even though the topic has wandered away from Les Fehmi himself. By the way, Sue, as best as I can tell, I'm the only one on this site who has personally challenged Dr. Les Fehmi, directly to his face, his relentless insistence that his neurofeedback treatment at his Princeton Biofeedback Centre alone is not enough--that one must listen to his recordings 2 hours/day in order for his Open Focus technique to have serious positive results. That's an important piece of information for NF practitioners interested in Fehmi's NF technique to know. From: Sue Breazeale <grams@...> Sent: Friday, October 28, 2011 12:57 AMSubject: Re: ...scoop on Les Fehmi you could be right, Shane. Please excuse me for addressing my last email to you alone. It would be better to address it to the whole group and ask that we move on from this subject. Sometimes this group seems to get stuck on topics, as it seems with this one- in my opinion. But as you suggested, I could just not read the emails on this topic. Sue On 10/27/2011 10:01 PM, Shane wrote: Dear Sue, With all due respect, I'm here to learn from others and to convey my own personal experiences regarding NF. Sites like this chat group allow an exchange of information that one simply can't get by reading a textbook. I'm grateful to those individuals who have posted their comments and have shown interest in my personal experiences. But no one is obligated to read my (or anyone else's) postings, Sue, so feel free to skip over mine in the future. However, Sue, I hope you DID take in what I said about most BST centers offering free services to US soldiers who served in a war zone and who are suffering PTSD. We owe it to our soldiers and their families to inform them of this. Let the soldiers decide for themselves whether they want to pursue BST or not. Thanks, Shane From: Sue Breazeale <grams@...> Sent: Thursday, October 27, 2011 11:05 PM Subject: Re: ....scoop on Les Fehmi Shane, as my mother used to say, " enough is enough", o.k.? how about we change the subject? Sue On 10/27/2011 9:01 PM, Shane wrote: Thank you, , I'll have to ask Pete about that. Pete didn't mention that to me on the phone when I spoke to him a few months ago. In fact, Pete said he felt I'd be better off staying with BST (not just for myself, but for my 3 adult children). Shane From: Duncan <karenduncan@...> Sent: Thursday, October 27, 2011 10:57 PM Subject: Re: ...scoop on Les Fehmi Shane~ It has been proven that BST designs are EXACTLY some of the old TLC designs from years back. If you benefited from the BST training like you say then the same intensity with TLC training will do even more for you since the assessment one would work with would be more informative, not just the one page (heads page) Lee lifted from Pete's TLC assessment after he took Pete's training. ~ From: "Shane " <tracyshane@...> , "mercado 83" <mercado_83@...> Cc: tracyshane@... Sent: Thursday, October 27, 2011 10:44:26 PM Subject: ....scoop on Les Fehmi. Good information, . (mercado 83), That's a good comment you made below. I know that Van Deusen has reservations about Brain State Training because Les Gerdes studied under . told me over the phone that Gerdes' methods are identical to TLC's (please correct me if I'm wrong, )--but I know from personal experience that BST is NOT identical to TLC training because, as you comment in your posting, , BST is absorbed passively--it does not take active mental concentration, as does traditional NF. It is also much quicker than NF. And to ---you yourself, , said to me, "...maybe if you want to get there without doing any work for it..." or words to that effect. Well, of course I want to 'get there' the easiest possible way, , and of course I want to get there as quickly as possible! So does everybody. People have other things to devote their 'work' time to--like 'work,' for instance. That doesn't mean people are lazy, , it just means that they have other importance things going on and they want to get on with their lives. MY PERSONAL EXPERIENCE WITH BST: I've personally gone through BST--8 days, or 16 sessions, of it--in January 2011. To be frank, I just plain benefited from BST beyond my wildest expectations. I had given up all hope of a transformation in my life, but BST provided me with just that--a transformation. I now have a sense of inner calm and self-confidence that I've never known before, much more than I ever achieved with meditation techniques. And the results I achieved from BST have been permanent because once one achieves a higher level of consciousness, then all decisions and actions are made from this level and one deals with life with more maturity. Even my husband has noticed and has even made the unsolicited comment that I seem 'different' now--better--more in charge of my life--and, believe me, my husband has NEVER said anything like that to me before in the 30+ years we've known each other! And when I say 'never,' I don't mean 'hardly ever'--I mean 'NEVER.' My husband's surprise comment reflects what Gerdes says regarding many who undergo BST--"...they just look so much more present." [the word 'present' in italics]. I urge all NF practitioners to research BST further. I have no reason to say this to you, except that the results of BST are often so dramatic, as they were in my case. Perhaps this is because Les Gerdes used the brain wave frequencies of two Buddhist monks to set up his first model, rather than the median of brain wave samples taken throughout the world (NF). MY CONVERSATION WITH HERSHEL TOOMIM: I don't know if one can reach a higher level of consciousness through traditional NF techniques or not, but can one reach it through NF in just three days? I spoke with Hershel Toomim about my experience with BST for over an hour one day. Hershel was a true professional, and a good listener--he respected what I told him about my experience with BST, and he accepted my words on face value--after all, I had no reason to lie to him about my experience, and he recognized that. Hershel asked me how long it took me to achieve the profound change I experienced with BST, and I told him '3 days.' He said, "Three days!" Hershel was clearly impressed, and he told me he was going to explore BST further. He told me that he was positive that he could duplicate the results of BST. To my sorrow, Hershel, who I believe was 94 years old when I spoke to him, passed away shortly after our conversation. I hope other NF practitioners will pick up Hershel's torch and find out how BST works and duplicate it so that it can become more available to the public. I know that Gerdes didn't seek to have BST copyrighted (or patented? I forget which) because it would be too easy for others to duplicate once his secret was out. A BST practitioner told me that Gerdes felt that BST had a '5 year window' before others figured it out. Hershel himself was so positive that he could easily figure it out himself, but unfortunately he didn't live long enough to pursue it--so, one of you out there, please pick up Hershel's torch. BST works better than traditional NF--I'm sure of it. Read about it online; take the 5-day/10-session BST training yourself; watch the youtube videos of the severely involved child receiving BST in AZ; read the testimonials of soldiers suffering from PTSD. RE: LES GERDES: I have no allegiance to Les Gerdes himself--in fact, I fear his apparently-harsh business practices might 'do BST in'-- but I do know that his Brain State Training worked extremely well for me and for others, and that BST doesn't require dozens or hundreds of sessions to achieve desired results as does NF. And children can play with their toys if they want to, while undergoing BST, rather than be coerced into focusing on the computer screen In his book "Limitless You," Gerdes explains that he achieved better results from NF for his PTSD than he did with other treatments, such as drugs or psychotherapy (he was attacked and beaten by a gang of kids in San Francisco); but, Gerdes said, NF just didn't work fast enough, and he wanted to get on with his life. THERE'S NOTHING WRONG WITH 'BEING A GOOD MARKETER.' Van Deusen comments that Les Gerdes is a good "marketer," and I suppose Pete is right about that--but Gerdes' marketing skills DO NOT in any way diminish the genuine value of BST as a treatment. Marketing was Gerdes's forte to begin with, and he was good at it--he was a major force behind making Amazon.com the major force that it is today. But that's not an argument against the true value of BST. RE: LENS: I intend to take further sessions of BST--but I, too, wonder whether I might benefit as much or more from LENS. From what I've been told, LENS tends to be of greatest benefit to those who have undergone recent severe trauma, such as a stroke. I also read somewhere--I think in the book "A Symphony in the Brain" by Jim Robbins--that LENS has even benefited dogs that had been emotionally traumatized as a result of Hurricane Katrina and were left abandoned. These traumatized dogs, who had started snapping at people in their fear, became calm enough to be adoptable again. In other words, with LENS, as with BST, one does not have to be actively engaged in the process in order to benefit from it. You can even benefit from BST if you fall asleep. I was told during my BST sessions to simply to imagine myself relaxing in a pleasant surrounding. I chose to picture myself on a blanket on a beach in Galveston TX, where I lived for 2 years. There were a couple of other visualization things I was asked to follow for BST, but that was it. I didn't have to actively concentrate on anything, like make a submarine going up and down, or make an airplane fly, on the computer screen in front of me. STUDY BEING PERFORMED ON BST: I've considered trying traditional NF--which is why I'm on this site, to learn more about it--but, based on what I've read to date on this site, plus on Les Gerdes' book "Limitless You," plus on testimonials for BST that I've read, it sounds like BST is much faster than traditional NF and that it's the most cost-effective way to go. Another point worth mentioning: The U. of Va. is currently conducting a study on BST, with the support and cooperation of the US Military, on 350 soldiers suffering from PTSD. The reason that the military chose to pursue this study is that they are desperate to find some effective means to deal with PTSD of their returning soldiers, and testimonials of soldiers with PTSD who have undergone BST have been impressive. IMPT FOR NEUROFEEDBACK PRACTITIONERS TO KNOW: SOLDIERS SUFFERING FROM PTSD CAN RECEIVE BST FOR FREE: Which brings to mind something else that NF practitioners need to know: MOST, IF NOT ALL, BRAIN STATE TRAINING CENTERS THROUGHOUT THE US, OFFER SOLDIERS WHO SERVED IN A WAR ZONE and who are now experiencing PTSD AS A RESULT, BST TREATMENT WITHOUT CHARGE. So if you know of any soldiers suffering from PTSD, whether it be from Viet Nam or Iraq or Afghanistan, please call Brain State Technology's AZ office for more details. Being from a military family myself, I care a lot about our soldiers--a whole lot. If you know ANY soldier suffering from PTSD as a result of serving in a war zone, PLEASE pass this information on to the soldier or his family. Professional responsibility calls for it. I have great respect for all of you NF practitioners--you deserve more attention and respect than the medical community gives you. Thank you for all you've done to help people in need. Yours, Shane New Hope PA From: mercado_83 <mercado_83@...> To: Sent: Thursday, October 27, 2011 2:19 PM Subject: Re: What's the scoop on Les Fehmi I skimmed through the BST file Pete uploaded. From what I can tell, the BST software provides feedback in the form of sounds that reflect some aspects of the real-time activity of the brain, and the brain is hypothesized to automatically correct itself while listening to the sounds, and the user sits passively without actively trying to change anything (p. 9-11). To me, that sounds closer to the LENS approach than the TLC approach (the TLC approach being closer to "traditional" methods of neurofeedback). Chivers > As for BST...well, I've already written that story several times, and I'm > tired of it. Of course it "works" for some people, and doesn't for others. > All NF does. But BST, and certainly Mr. Gerdes, are much more about > marketing than about brain training. I have recently seen that they are now > calling what they do (drum-roll) > "High-resolution, Relational, Resonance-Based Electroencephalic Mirroring" > or HIRREM (which name, by the way, is TRADEMARKED!! If you put salt in a > fancy container and call it low-cal, all-natural, gluten-free NaCl > flavoring, you'll probably be able to sell it for double the price to at > least some of the market. And no matter what you call it, it still adds a > salty taste to your food, so many people will like it--same as regular salt > in a simple package. That's marketing. And if you can get a few > "celebrities" to swear that they won't eat a bite without it, well, you'll > sell even more. > > Anyone wants to read the 18-page "article" setting this forth, I've uploaded > it to in the Files area > /files/ > Anyone who is particularly interested might wish to glance through pp13-17, > where they explain the difference between HIRREM (sorry, I can't find the TM > key on my keyboard) and "regular" neurofeedback. > > Let the buyer beware, regardless of what he/she is buying. > > Pete > > " > -- > Van Deusen > pvdtlc@... > http://www.brain-trainer.com > USA 305 433 3160 > BR 47 3346 6235 > The Learning Curve, Inc. -- Watch for all that beauty reflecting from you and sing a love song to your existence. Rumi ♥ No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 9.0.920 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/3979 - Release Date: 10/27/11 12:35:00 No virus found in this incoming message. 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Guest guest Posted October 28, 2011 Report Share Posted October 28, 2011 Shane~I think the point about Les Fehmi's work is being missed here. If you are interested in deeper work, consciousness and awareness then it is worth the commitment to the extra practice. Buddhist monks don't gain deeper awareness and enlightenment by watching more TV and reading extra Time magazines, they acquire it by spending more time committed to deeper meditative practices such as Les Fehmi's recommendations. It's about priorities.~Sent on the Sprint® Now Network from my BlackBerry®From: Shane <tracyshane@...>Sender: Date: Fri, 28 Oct 2011 08:09:21 +0100 (BST) < >Reply Subject: Re: ...scoop on Les Fehmi Sue.It's not even clear to me what subject you are referring to. Could you please clarify? I left 'scoop on Les Fehmi' as the subject title for this posting because that seems to be the connection here, even though the topic has wandered away from Les Fehmi himself. By the way, Sue, as best as I can tell, I'm the only one on this site who has personally challenged Dr. Les Fehmi, directly to his face, his relentless insistence that his neurofeedback treatment at his Princeton Biofeedback Centre alone is not enough--that one must listen to his recordings 2 hours/day in order for his Open Focus technique to have serious positive results. That's an important piece of information for NF practitioners interested in Fehmi'sNF technique to know. From: Sue Breazeale <grams@...> Sent: Friday, October 28, 2011 12:57 AMSubject: Re: ...scoop on Les Fehmi you could be right, Shane. Please excuse me for addressing my lastemail to you alone. It would be better to address it to the wholegroup and ask that we move on from this subject. Sometimes thisgroup seems to get stuck on topics, as it seems with this one- in myopinion. But as you suggested, I could just not read the emails onthis topic.SueOn 10/27/2011 10:01 PM, Shane wrote: Dear Sue,With all due respect, I'm here to learn fromothers and to convey my own personal experiencesregarding NF. Sites like this chat group allow anexchange of information that one simply can't get byreading a textbook. I'm grateful to those individualswho have posted their comments and have shown interestin my personal experiences. But no one is obligatedto read my (or anyone else's) postings, Sue, so feelfree to skip over mine in the future.However, Sue, I hope you DID take in what I saidabout most BST centers offering free services to USsoldiers who served in a war zone and who are sufferingPTSD. We owe it to our soldiers and their families toinform them of this. Let the soldiers decide forthemselves whether they want to pursue BST or not.Thanks,Shane From: Sue Breazeale<grams@...> Sent: Thursday, October 27, 201111:05 PMSubject: Re: ...scoop on Les Fehmi Shane,as my mother used to say, " enough is enough",o.k.?how about we change the subject?SueOn 10/27/2011 9:01 PM, Shane wrote: Thank you, ,I'll have to ask Pete aboutthat. Pete didn't mention that tome on the phone when I spoke tohim a few months ago. In fact,Pete said he felt I'd be betteroff staying with BST (not just formyself, but for my 3 adultchildren).Shane From: Duncan <karenduncan@...> Sent:Thursday, October 27, 2011 10:57PMSubject: Re: ...scoop on LesFehmi Shane~It has been proven thatBST designs are EXACTLYsome of the old TLCdesigns from years back. If you benefited from theBST training like you saythen the same intensitywith TLC training will doeven more for you sincethe assessment one wouldwork with would be moreinformative, not just theone page (heads page) Leelifted from Pete's TLCassessment after he tookPete's training. ~From: "Shane" <tracyshane@...> ,"mercado 83" <mercado_83@...>Cc: tracyshane@...Sent: Thursday,October 27, 2011 10:44:26PMSubject: ...scoop on Les Fehmi.Good information, . (mercado 83),That'sa good commentyou madebelow. I knowthat VanDeusen hasreservationsabout BrainState Trainingbecause LesGerdes studiedunder . told meover the phonethat Gerdes'methods areidentical toTLC's (pleasecorrect me ifI'm wrong,)--but Iknow frompersonalexperiencethat BST isNOT identicalto TLCtrainingbecause, asyou comment in yourposting, ,BST isabsorbedpassively--itdoes not takeactive mentalconcentration,as doestraditionalNF. It isalso muchquicker thanNF.And to---youyourself,, said tome, "...maybeif you want toget therewithout doingany work forit..." orwords to thateffect. Well,of course Iwant to 'getthere' theeasiestpossible way,, and ofcourse I wantto get thereas quickly aspossible! Sodoeseverybody. People haveother thingsto devotetheir 'work'time to--like'work,' forinstance. That doesn'tmean peopleare lazy,, it justmeans thatthey haveotherimportancethings goingon and theywant to get onwith theirlives.MYPERSONALEXPERIENCEWITH BST:I'vepersonallygone throughBST--8 days,or 16sessions, ofit--in January2011. To befrank, I justplainbenefited fromBST beyond mywildestexpectations. I had givenup all hope ofatransformationin my life,but BSTprovided mewith justthat--atransformation. I now have asense of innercalm andself-confidencethat I'venever knownbefore, muchmore than Iever achievedwithmeditationtechniques. And theresults Iachieved fromBST have beenpermanentbecause onceone achieves ahigher levelofconsciousness,then alldecisions andactions aremade from thislevel and onedeals withlife with morematurity. Even myhusband hasnoticed andhas even madetheunsolicitedcomment that Iseem'different'now--better--morein charge ofmy life--and,believe me, myhusband hasNEVER saidanything likethat to mebefore in the30+ yearswe've knowneach other! And when Isay 'never,' Idon't mean'hardlyever'--I mean'NEVER.' Myhusband'ssurprisecommentreflects whatGerdes saysregarding manywho undergoBST--"...theyjust look somuch morepresent." [theword 'present'in italics].I urgeall NFpractitionersto researchBST further. I have noreason to saythis to you,except thatthe results ofBST are oftenso dramatic,as they werein my case. Perhaps thisis because LesGerdes usedthe brain wavefrequencies oftwo Buddhistmonks to setup his firstmodel, ratherthan themedian ofbrain wavesamples takenthroughout theworld (NF).MYCONVERSATIONWITH HERSHELTOOMIM:I don'tknow if onecan reach ahigher levelofconsciousnessthroughtraditional NFtechniques ornot, but canone reach itthrough NF injust threedays? I spokewith HershelToomim aboutmy experiencewith BST forover an hourone day. Hershel was atrueprofessional,and a goodlistener--herespected whatI told himabout myexperiencewith BST, andhe accepted mywords on facevalue--afterall, I had noreason to lieto him aboutmy experience,and herecognizedthat. Hershelasked me howlong it tookme to achievethe profoundchange Iexperiencedwith BST, andI told him '3days.' Hesaid, "Threedays!" Hershel wasclearlyimpressed, andhe told me hewas going toexplore BSTfurther. Hetold me thathe waspositive thathe couldduplicate theresults ofBST. To mysorrow,Hershel, who Ibelieve was 94years old whenI spoke tohim, passedaway shortlyafter ourconversation. I hopeother NFpractitionerswill pick upHershel'storch and findout how BSTworks andduplicate itso that it canbecome moreavailable tothe public. Iknow thatGerdes didn'tseek to haveBSTcopyrighted(or patented? I forgetwhich) becauseit would betoo easy forothers toduplicate oncehis secret wasout. A BSTpractitionertold me thatGerdes feltthat BST had a'5 yearwindow' beforeothers figuredit out. Hershelhimself was sopositive thathe couldeasily figureit outhimself, butunfortunatelyhe didn't livelong enough topursue it--so,one of you outthere, pleasepick upHershel'storch. BSTworks betterthantraditionalNF--I'm sureof it. Readabout itonline; takethe5-day/10-sessionBST trainingyourself;watch theyoutube videosof theseverelyinvolved childreceiving BSTin AZ; readthetestimonialsof soldierssuffering fromPTSD.RE: LES GERDES:I haveno allegianceto Les Gerdeshimself--infact, I fearhisapparently-harshbusinesspracticesmight 'do BSTin'-- but I doknow that hisBrain StateTrainingworkedextremely wellfor me and forothers, andthat BSTdoesn'trequire dozensor hundreds ofsessions toachievedesiredresults asdoes NF. Andchildren canplay withtheir toys ifthey want to,whileundergoingBST, ratherthan becoerced intofocusing onthe computerscreen In hisbook"LimitlessYou," Gerdesexplains thathe achievedbetter resultsfrom NF forhis PTSD thanhe did withothertreatments,such as drugsorpsychotherapy(he wasattacked andbeaten by agang of kidsin SanFrancisco);but, Gerdessaid, NF justdidn't workfast enough,and he wantedto get on withhis life. THERE'SNOTHING WRONGWITH 'BEING AGOODMARKETER.' VanDeusencomments thatLes Gerdes isa good"marketer,"and I supposePete is rightaboutthat--butGerdes'marketingskills DO NOTin any waydiminish thegenuine valueof BST as atreatment. Marketing wasGerdes's forteto begin with,and he wasgood at it--hewas a majorforce behindmaking Amazon.com the major force that it istoday. Butthat's not anargumentagainst thetrue value ofBST.RE: LENS:Iintend to takefurthersessions ofBST--but I,too, wonderwhether Imight benefitas much ormore fromLENS. Fromwhat I've beentold, LENStends to be ofgreatestbenefit tothose who haveundergonerecent severetrauma, suchas a stroke. I also readsomewhere--Ithink in thebook "ASymphony inthe Brain" byJimRobbins--thatLENS has evenbenefited dogsthat had beenemotionallytraumatized asa result ofHurricaneKatrina andwere leftabandoned. Thesetraumatizeddogs, who hadstartedsnapping atpeople intheir fear,became calmenough to beadoptableagain.Inother words,with LENS, aswith BST, onedoes not haveto be activelyengaged in theprocess inorder tobenefit fromit. You caneven benefitfrom BST ifyou fallasleep. I wastold during myBST sessionsto simply toimagine myselfrelaxing in apleasantsurrounding. I chose topicture myselfon a blanketon a beach inGalveston TX,where I livedfor 2 years. There were acouple ofothervisualizationthings I wasasked tofollow forBST, but thatwas it. Ididn't have toactivelyconcentrate onanything, likemake asubmarinegoing up anddown, or makean airplanefly, on thecomputerscreen infront of me.STUDYBEINGPERFORMED ONBST:I'veconsideredtryingtraditionalNF--which iswhy I'm onthis site, tolearn moreabout it--but,based on whatI've read todate on thissite, plus onLes Gerdes'book"LimitlessYou," plus ontestimonialsfor BST thatI've read, itsounds likeBST is muchfaster thantraditional NFand that it'sthe mostcost-effectiveway to go.Anotherpoint worthmentioning: The U. of Va.is currentlyconducting astudy on BST,with thesupport andcooperation ofthe USMilitary, on350 soldierssuffering fromPTSD. Thereason thatthe militarychose topursue thisstudy is thatthey aredesperate tofind someeffectivemeans to dealwith PTSD oftheirreturningsoldiers, andtestimonialsof soldierswith PTSD whohave undergoneBST have beenimpressive. IMPTFORNEUROFEEDBACKPRACTITIONERSTO KNOW: SOLDIERSSUFFERING FROMPTSD CANRECEIVE BSTFOR FREE:Whichbrings to mindsomething elsethat NFpractitionersneed to know: MOST, IF NOTALL, BRAINSTATE TRAININGCENTERSTHROUGHOUT THEUS, OFFERSOLDIERS WHOSERVED IN AWAR ZONE andwho are nowexperiencingPTSD AS ARESULT, BSTTREATMENT WITHOUTCHARGE. So ifyou know ofany soldierssuffering fromPTSD, whetherit be fromViet Nam orIraq orAfghanistan,please callBrain StateTechnology'sAZ office formore details.Beingfrom amilitaryfamily myself,I care a lotabout oursoldiers--awhole lot. Ifyou know ANYsoldiersuffering fromPTSD as aresult ofserving in awar zone,PLEASE passthisinformation onto the soldieror his family. Professionalresponsibilitycalls for it.I havegreat respectfor all of youNFpractitioners--youdeserve moreattention andrespect thanthe medicalcommunitygives you. Thank you forall you'vedone to helppeople inneed.Yours,ShaneNewHope PA From:mercado_83 <mercado_83@...>Sent:Thursday,October 27,2011 2:19 PMSubject: Re: What's thescoop on LesFehmi I skimmedthrough theBST file Peteuploaded. Fromwhat I cantell, the BSTsoftwareprovidesfeedback inthe form ofsounds thatreflect someaspects of thereal-timeactivity ofthe brain, andthe brain ishypothesizedtoautomaticallycorrect itselfwhilelistening tothe sounds,and the usersits passivelywithoutactivelytrying tochangeanything (p.9-11). To me,that soundscloser to theLENS approachthan the TLCapproach (theTLC approachbeing closerto"traditional"methods ofneurofeedback). Chivers> As forBST...well,I've alreadywritten thatstory severaltimes, and I'm> tired ofit. Of courseit "works" forsome people,and doesn'tfor others.> All NFdoes. But BST,and certainlyMr. Gerdes,are much moreabout> marketingthan aboutbraintraining. Ihave recentlyseen that theyare now> callingwhat they do(drum-roll)>"High-resolution,Relational,Resonance-BasedElectroencephalicMirroring"> or HIRREM(which name,by the way, isTRADEMARKED!!If you putsalt in a> fancycontainer andcall itlow-cal,all-natural,gluten-freeNaCl>flavoring,you'llprobably beable to sellit for doublethe price toat> leastsome of themarket. And nomatter whatyou call it,it still addsa> saltytaste to yourfood, so manypeople willlike it--sameas regularsalt> in asimplepackage.That'smarketing. Andif you can geta few>"celebrities"to swear thatthey won't eata bite withoutit, well,you'll> sell evenmore.> > Anyonewants to readthe 18-page"article"setting thisforth, I'veuploaded> it toin the Filesarea>/files/> Anyonewho isparticularlyinterestedmight wish toglance throughpp13-17,> wherethey explainthe differencebetween HIRREM(sorry, Ican't find theTM> key on mykeyboard) and"regular"neurofeedback.> > Let thebuyer beware,regardless ofwhat he/she isbuying.> > Pete> > "> --> VanDeusen>pvdtlc@...>http://www.brain-trainer.com> USA 305433 3160> BR 473346 6235> TheLearningCurve, Inc.-- Watchfor all thatbeautyreflectingfrom you andsing a lovesong to yourexistence. Rumi♥ No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 9.0.920 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/3979 - Release Date: 10/27/11 12:35:00 No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 9.0.920 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/3979 - Release Date: 10/27/11 12:35:00 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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