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I didn't recognize Ms. 's name when she applied for membership in the group.  She is now gone.I spoke with her by phone (for nearly 2 hours) a couple months ago.  She told me she had done BST and had a life-changing experience but it was expensive and she wanted her husband and kids to have the same experience so she was interested in home-based training.  I had forgotten (perhaps dissociated...) her comments about Les and others who were not helpful to her.  I tried to explain to her about HEG, since her issues were obviously related to an inability to pay attention for any length of time at all or remember anything I had said for 30 seconds.  I'm generally capable of explaining things so people can understand them, but I absolutely could not get her to understand the difference between HEG and EEG or what HEG was, or...well, ANYTHING.  I tried to answer her questions about my history with Lee Gerdes and the basis for BST also without much success.

After an hour or more, I was getting fairly frustrated and started trying to get her off the phone.  It was clear that this was not a candidate for ANY type of home-based training, and that if she was the person who would be the IT (identified trainer) in her family, it would be a waste of their money and my time.  She kept me on the phone and wouldn't let go, telling me how useful it was and how much she was learning, until I finally asked her what she had actually learned from our conversation.  She told me, " well, I've learned that you are very angry at Lee Gerdes. "   That finished me.  I had increasingly been of the opinion that she was a drone, and that if she wasn't and if I WAS really angry at Lee Gerdes (which I didn't think I was, though I was frustrated with her), the greatest revenge I could get on him would be to send her back to BST for more training.  So I told her that was her best option.

She kept calling, wanting " more information " , so I finally passed her off on Foxx, who had a remarkably similar experience with her on the phone. Together we took a solemn blood oath never to talk with her again.

Once I figured out who she was, she became the 5th person ever to be removed from the group.Sorry for the distraction.Pete-- Van Deusenpvdtlc@...

http://www.brain-trainer.comUSA 305 433 3160BR 47 3346 6235The Learning Curve, Inc.

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Please provide instruction regarding how to terminate membership in this group. SCFrom: pvdtlc <pvdtlc@...>Braintrainer List < >Sent: Fri, October 28, 2011 3:25:06 AMSubject: apologies

I didn't recognize Ms. 's name when she applied for membership in the group. She is now gone.I spoke with her by phone (for nearly 2 hours) a couple months ago. She told me she had done BST and had a life-changing experience but it was expensive and she wanted her husband and kids to have the same experience so she was interested in home-based training. I had forgotten (perhaps dissociated...) her comments about Les and others who were not helpful to her. I tried to explain to her about HEG, since her issues were obviously related to an inability to pay attention for any length of time at all or remember anything I had said for 30 seconds. I'm generally capable of explaining things so people can understand them, but I absolutely could not get her to understand the difference between HEG and EEG or what HEG was, or...well, ANYTHING. I tried to answer her questions about my history with Lee Gerdes

and the basis for BST also without much success.

After an hour or more, I was getting fairly frustrated and started trying to get her off the phone. It was clear that this was not a candidate for ANY type of home-based training, and that if she was the person who would be the IT (identified trainer) in her family, it would be a waste of their money and my time. She kept me on the phone and wouldn't let go, telling me how useful it was and how much she was learning, until I finally asked her what she had actually learned from our conversation. She told me, "well, I've learned that you are very angry at Lee Gerdes." That finished me. I had increasingly been of the opinion that she was a drone, and that if she wasn't and if I WAS really angry at Lee Gerdes (which I didn't think I was, though I was frustrated with her), the greatest revenge I could get on him would be to send her back to BST for more training. So I told her that was her best option.

She kept calling, wanting "more information", so I finally passed her off on Foxx, who had a remarkably similar experience with her on the phone. Together we took a solemn blood oath never to talk with her again.

Once I figured out who she was, she became the 5th person ever to be removed from the group.Sorry for the distraction.Pete-- Van Deusenpvdtlc@...

http://www.brain-trainer.comUSA 305 433 3160BR 47 3346 6235The Learning Curve, Inc.

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I bought this whole system almost 2 years ago and I am a fairly smart person.  I have a very successful business that I started and have done fabulous with, I worked in the medical field for many years and had to quit because my own business grew to large to work both jobs.  I even designed and built with some of my husbands help and muscles my own home that is large and accommodates my business.  With this said I could not understand or get this program to work and when Pete or Foxx tried to help me they just treated me like I was stupid.  I am not happy it was a waste of $3500.00 it sits collecting dust.  I will not ask for more help (even though I purchased it) because I don't want to be treated that way.  I would give it away for a $1000.00 or less even just to be rid of the idea.  I do think it may help my daughter with learning disabilities and the clients I work with on a daily basis, but there is no way to learn something that is that complex over the phone or by a simple dvd that you give out.  I would love to learn to use it but it needs to be in a hands on situation and I don't have the time to fly somewhere.  I know that they are both very impatient people and should have people train others who have training abilities.  It is a different sort of person who thinks of an invention like this is very smart but not the kind of personality to train and have the patients for it.

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,You bought the package in February 2010, and I can't go back that far in my calendar to know how many times we spoke, or when.  I work most weeks with 3-5 people who are doing installations and getting started with either HEG or EEG, and I don't know how many Foxx works with, but I do know that during that period there have been dozens of people who have managed to get up and running with one or both of the technologies--professionals and home trainers.

What I think I recall about you--my apologies if I'm confusing you with someone else--is that you offered to set up through your business for $1000 or more a " manual " to guide people through the setpup, since you found the process fragmented and not helpful.  I do remember a phone conversation or two with you when I tried to explain the difficulty we experience daily of doing that with multiple versions of Windows, different packages of hardware, new versions of hardware and software, etc.--not to mention the fact that many of the people we work with don't/can't make much use of manuals.  We did make some significant changes after talking over your concerns.  We inform each new buyer and strongly recommend to them our free service for installing over the internet and walking them through getting started.  You may recall that you had already spent many hours on your own installing your purchases and didn't want much help with fixing that, though you had, as you mentioned, hours of consultation time in your package. Once we decided (after getting the price tag for your services) that we weren't going to contract with you, you seemed to lose interest and just went away.  We probably should have made a few efforts to follow up with you, but with the flow of people coming through the website, it just isn't feasible for us to keep after everyone.

It's certainly possible that I came across impatient on the phone or via meeting, since it does frustrate me when someone refuses to ask for help in the installation process and then gets mad at us because it didn't work out right, but I'm not often accused of being impatient with clients.  Sorry if I came across that way with you.  Foxx, I believe, was just asked to try to figure out what it was you were offering us and how much it would cost, but again it was a long time ago.

Good luck to you and your daughter.  I know you had a frustrating experience with pIR HEG.  Many people who have purchased them have been very happy with them, but enough were frustrated in getting them to work right that we no longer sell them.

Wish you had written your email to me directly instead of to the list, but since you did, I wanted to at least include the rest of the story.Pete-- Van Deusenpvdtlc@...

http://www.brain-trainer.comUSA 305 433 3160BR 47 3346 6235The Learning Curve, Inc.

On Mon, Oct 31, 2011 at 2:43 PM, Gardner <eringardner5@...> wrote:

 

I bought this whole system almost 2 years ago and I am a fairly smart person.  I have a very successful business that I started and have done fabulous with, I worked in the medical field for many years and had to quit because my own business grew to large to work both jobs.  I even designed and built with some of my husbands help and muscles my own home that is large and accommodates my business.  With this said I could not understand or get this program to work and when Pete or Foxx tried to help me they just treated me like I was stupid.  I am not happy it was a waste of $3500.00 it sits collecting dust.  I will not ask for more help (even though I purchased it) because I don't want to be treated that way.  I would give it away for a $1000.00 or less even just to be rid of the idea.  I do think it may help my daughter with learning disabilities and the clients I work with on a daily basis, but there is no way to learn something that is that complex over the phone or by a simple dvd that you give out.  I would love to learn to use it but it needs to be in a hands on situation and I don't have the time to fly somewhere.  I know that they are both very impatient people and should have people train others who have training abilities.  It is a different sort of person who thinks of an invention like this is very smart but not the kind of personality to train and have the patients for it.

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,I’ve trained with Pete and I find this very hard to believe that he treated you like youWere stupid, all of us on this site get good advice from Pete, and never once has he been rude to me. (At least I don’t think?) LOL. I’m sure your having a hard time getting use to the equipment but you should see if there are anyone near you that can guide you along to help you understand the training better. This isn’t something you can learn in one training or by the phone, ask questions on the site and I’m sure you will get many responders helping you… best of luck…Kim From: [mailto: ] On Behalf Of GardnerSent: Monday, October 31, 2011 12:44 PM Subject: Re: apologies I bought this whole system almost 2 years ago and I am a fairly smart person. I have a very successful business that I started and have done fabulous with, I worked in the medical field for many years and had to quit because my own business grew to large to work both jobs. I even designed and built with some of my husbands help and muscles my own home that is large and accommodates my business. With this said I could not understand or get this program to work and when Pete or Foxx tried to help me they just treated me like I was stupid. I am not happy it was a waste of $3500.00 it sits collecting dust. I will not ask for more help (even though I purchased it) because I don't want to be treated that way. I would give it away for a $1000.00 or less even just to be rid of the idea. I do think it may help my daughter with learning disabilities and the clients I work with on a daily basis, but there is no way to learn something that is that complex over the phone or by a simple dvd that you give out. I would love to learn to use it but it needs to be in a hands on situation and I don't have the time to fly somewhere. I know that they are both very impatient people and should have people train others who have training abilities. It is a different sort of person who thinks of an invention like this is very smart but not the kind of personality to train and have the patients for it.

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, your problem is the very reason I install the software on clients computers personally and have a comprehensive DVD series showing how to run it. It is not easy as Pete said, thats for sure. Some people think that they can cut corners or save money by doing it themselves, that approach rarely works with neurofeedback. Nfb is a fascinating and powerful technology, but it is not user friendly, you can't just go and install and run it out of the box.Pete offered to install it remotely, you should have taken him up on it. You should have taken a course in nfb or seen a professional to run through protocols and settings etc for your daughter before making the purchase. I say "should have" deliberately, because nfb is a 'professional' therapy, it is not like taking a

panadol for a headache, you need a certain level of skill in working with the system and with your child. May I suggest you either attend a course or see a professional, or sell your system as you said you will, there are many out there who would love to buy it at your discounted price. We understand your frustration but coming onto the forum and complaining is only a disservice to yourself, and is no reflection on Pete or his team. RegardsNoel EastwoodPsychologist LearnwiseCanberra, AustraliaPh: 02 6162

0914Fax: 02 6162 0915Web: www.learnwiseaustralia.comPsychology, Counselling, Neurofeedback, Fast ForWordBioexplorer Training videos:- Creating your own Basic Protocols in Bioexplorer; Getting Started in Bioexplorer; Running and Screening Your Session in Bioexplorer, Neurofeedback systems.IMPORTANT:This

email remains the property of Learnwise and Noel Eastwood Psychology. This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and are intended solely for the use of the intended recipient. If you are not the intended recipient, distribution or reproduction of this email is prohibited. If you have received this email in error, you are requested to contact the sender and delete the email.

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