Re: Serious business about pannies

November 29, 2003

In a message dated 11/30/2003 3:21:01 AM Central Standard Time,

moobabies@... writes:

> There once was a lady in SJ hospital who had lost

> soo much weight that when she was laying on her back and rolled to

> her side...her skin on her back and butt would remain and she

> literally would turn inside her own skin. You could see her hip

> bone turning and pointing upwards...yet her butt remained flat on

> the bed. It would take years and years of removing skin in

> stages...and she would never end up normal...they were working on

> her to gain some weight back to Fill in some of the skin. She

> couldn't even walk unassisted because of the skin sliding around.

>

That's the way the guy on exreme makeover looked, it was scarey! I know I

don't under any circumstances want to lose that much....His skin was slithering

around him when he was running like a snake....I thought...If I were him, I'd

have a shirt on! An xl will do fine for me....LOL. When I lay on my side, My

hip bones are very prominent....I may have to get Tom to get the digi cam and

take some pics for example...But the pannie kind of rolls over to the side

closest to the bed. They took 35 lbs off of the lady in the show, which I

thought was an extreme amount and kind of an unusual amount.

It is frustrating to not have a doc around like Dr. K to say " hey, you

need to do this or that. " I do know I will have the arms done first if at

all possible.(and can get it approved!) they are so in your face....Know what I

mean?

I am going to have to be good, because I want to get to the point this

can be done before School starts back next year. Surely with me having lost

160+ lbs from my highest weight ever(at age 17) I will be able to get this done

eventually.

in Bama

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VBG to RNY revision 1996-Failed

Rny to Ds revision 12/06/02

Down111lbs!!

Thanks to Dr. K!

November 30, 2003

> So does the TT or pannie help back pain?

==============================

Yes the pannie will help back pain. Of course it can't repair an

already damaged spine...but it can relieve some of the aggrevation

to the spine. Removing that extra skin will change your posture

when you stand, when you walk, when you lay. Strap a 5 pound bag of

sugar to your lower waist, strap it lose so it will sway when you

walk...do ya think it will hurt your back toting that

around? " Most " of our panni removals will weigh 5-15 pounds...that

is a lot of skin and a lot of weight to carry at your hips. And yes

your thoughts on the pannie pulling your back when you lay on your

side is dead on target.

I didn't see the show, so I can't comment on the size of the

lady...but a possible answer to the " shouldn't the doctor have her

lose more weight before doing the panni " question.

1. I have said this before....depending on where you start you may

not want to lose 100% of the excess weight. Starting in the SMO

weights...if you lost all the excess weight you could have sooo much

lose skin that NO amount of plastic surgery could make you look

normal. There comes a point where we look better with some fat to

fill the skin. There once was a lady in SJ hospital who had lost

soo much weight that when she was laying on her back and rolled to

her side...her skin on her back and butt would remain and she

literally would turn inside her own skin. You could see her hip

bone turning and pointing upwards...yet her butt remained flat on

the bed. It would take years and years of removing skin in

stages...and she would never end up normal...they were working on

her to gain some weight back to Fill in some of the skin. She

couldn't even walk unassisted because of the skin sliding around.

2. When I had my tt I talked to my surgeon about " should I lose more

weight first because the tummy still has a lot of fat...it's not

just skin " He said " NO " What he told me, your face, arms, legs,

shoulders are all thin...if you continued to lose weight you would

continue to lose in all those areas FIRST and very LITTLE in the

abdomen, therefore becoming too thin. He said the ONLY way that fat

was going to GO was to cut it off or suck it out.

3. The weightloss had probably stopped for the lady and she was

happy, not willing to fight the diet monster anymore and ready to

whack off the panni and help the back pain.

4. Even if she was continueing to lose weight...sometimes the Doctor

has to look at doing skin reduction in stages.

Just some possible reasons.

Those who think they may have to fight insurance for tt approval

document ALL problems caused by the panni like rashes and back

pain. It might not help, but it won't hurt.

Jo

November 30, 2003

When I lay on my side, My

> hip bones are very prominent....I may have to get Tom to get the

digi cam and

> take some pics for example...But the pannie kind of rolls over to

the side

> closest to the bed.

========================

Honey I would love to look at the pics but...lol...I have a good

memory. I know exactly what your talking about.

You have already become a complete DS success! I'm so happy for

you...Keep being good because I don't think your done with your

miracle yet. Remember to calculate (guess) how much the skin you

will have chopped off will weigh when your calculating how much

weight you want to lose...example if you think they will chop off 2

pound off each arm and 15 pounds off your tummy and you want to

weigh 200 pounds (just a numbers pulled out of my ass) then when you

reach 219 you have lost enough weight because surgery will take you

to 200.

Going to bed now..

sweet dreams

Jo

November 30, 2003

....I thought she looked

> heavier than I do at 260's. Why did her doc not encourage her to

lose more

> first?

*****************

Mel, I thought she looked pretty darn good for someone who lost over

300 lbs! Think about it. Her belly looked about like mine and I

only lost 120 lbs before my panni. She lost weight by DIETING! She

did protein and (I think)fresh fruits and veggies, right? In other

words, approximately a DS diet without the DS. Interesting...

My theory is this....I

> lie on my left side a lot in bed, and I think the pannie is

pulling my back

> towards the bed(kind of twisting it) but I can't figure out why

this would be

> worse than it would be with the weight. Maybe more fat evens out

the pull of the

> weight and not as much drooping?

> So does the TT or pannie help back pain?

> in Bama

****************

Mel, you are describing EXACTLY the way I used to feel about my

panni, to a T. Yes, it helps to have the panni removed, but the

biggest help to me was last year when I bought the foam mattress

that supported my belly when I slept on my side. I also used to put

a little pillow under my belly to support it and save my lower back.

I never had skin issues because I wore my undies under my panni to

keep the skin dry.

Marta

November 30, 2003

In a message dated 11/30/2003 9:51:34 AM Central Standard Time,

mjs93311@... writes:

> Mel, I thought she looked pretty darn good for someone who lost over

> 300 lbs! Think about it. Her belly looked about like mine and I

> only lost 120 lbs before my panni.

Oh sure, For losing 300 lbs.....and yes I have great respect for anyone who

loses 300 lbs in any way possible! I guess maybe I was looking for " normal " and

the fact that 300+ lbs overweight pretty much rules out normal..... While her

belly loooked similar to yours, From whatI could tell by your last pic, you

looked more......What is the word?? How do I explain....?? She was rounded like

a " barrel " not any cinch to the waist. Of course my mother was built like

that normally before she died, but I have always had a defined waist(even at

433lbs) and maybe that is the difference?

in Bama

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VBG to RNY revision 1996-Failed

Rny to Ds revision 12/06/02

Down111lbs!!

Thanks to Dr. K!

November 30, 2003

In a message dated 11/30/2003 2:50:18 PM Central Standard Time,

snurfles2@... writes:

> My hernia probably added to that

> problem, as well. I almost never have back pain anymore, unless I

> lie on my back for too long in bed. (I have a pinched nerve which

> is no longer aggravated due to my weight less but it can act up if I

> lie on my back for too long.) So, I definitely think it's possible

> for a panni to cause back problems and for a tuck to relieve some of

> that pain.

>

> Tracey

>

in Bama

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VBG to RNY revision 1996-Failed

Rny to Ds revision 12/06/02

Down111lbs!!

Thanks to Dr. K!

November 30, 2003

In a message dated 11/30/2003 2:50:18 PM Central Standard Time,

snurfles2@... writes:

> My hernia probably added to that

> problem, as well. I almost never have back pain anymore, unless I

> lie on my back for too long in bed. (I have a pinched nerve which

> is no longer aggravated due to my weight less but it can act up if I

> lie on my back for too long.) So, I definitely think it's possible

> for a panni to cause back problems and for a tuck to relieve some of

> that pain.

>

> Tracey

>

Tracey,

I know for a fact that a hernia can affect the way you move. My

smaller umbilical hernia would cause a pulling sensation in my abdomen that

isn't

there now. (Not in the same area)..I don't think I have a hernia, but sometimes

I wonder because I feel a tighteneing in the upper abdomen and sometimes the

bowel sounds are very loud when the feeling occurs. Of course with 3 WLS and a

tubal and a gall bladder, I'd be really lucky to escape without a

hernia....LOL.

in Bama

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VBG to RNY revision 1996-Failed

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November 30, 2003

I saw that same show just today and at the beginning it states that she had

weightloss surgery but did not specify to which procedure she had done. I think

she did a great job of getting the weight off and excercising!

Janice

-95 lbs

November 30, 2003

In a message dated 11/30/2003 4:55:13 PM Central Standard Time,

mjs93311@... writes:

> Dr. Lockwood would say that the fat she had left wouldn't come off

> with diet. I am putting words in his mouth, but he has said things

> to that effect before.

>

> Marta

>

That's what I'm trying to ask....I remember what he said about some fat

wouldn't be lost, Then Jo said that some of hers wouldn't be lost.....How do

they

know? I know he talked a lot about discovering the support structure in the

body that was the fat and underneath tissues(like my medical jargon...?LOL) When

I feel m tummy, I feel an area that is firm, but if I lose the skin to there,

I'm still gonna be big. I guess I'm kind of weirding out on this issue, but

I have lots of questions and nobody to ask about this...Just you guys.

in Bama

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VBG to RNY revision 1996-Failed

Rny to Ds revision 12/06/02

Down111lbs!!

Thanks to Dr. K!

November 30, 2003

Hi !

I didn't see the show but I can tell you my tummy tuck and hernia

repair certainly helped MY back pain. I think when we lose all that

weight, the skin hangs much lower than it originally did and that it

puts a strain on the back. My hernia probably added to that

problem, as well. I almost never have back pain anymore, unless I

lie on my back for too long in bed. (I have a pinched nerve which

is no longer aggravated due to my weight less but it can act up if I

lie on my back for too long.) So, I definitely think it's possible

for a panni to cause back problems and for a tuck to relieve some of

that pain.

Tracey

> ` Having just watched a trash can full of skin, I have a few

comments

> about plastics and results. Maybe more fat evens out the pull of

the

> weight and not as much drooping?

> So does the TT or pannie help back pain?

> in Bama

>

November 30, 2003

In a message dated 11/30/2003 7:50:43 PM Central Standard Time,

mjs93311@... writes:

> Maybe I missed that part, but they definately said she " dieted " her

> way up and then changed her eating to high protein, low carbs and

> lost the weight. THey never mentioned WLS while I was watching, if

> you mean the show about the English woman, Trash Can Full of Skin.

>

> Marta

>

in Bama

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VBG to RNY revision 1996-Failed

Rny to Ds revision 12/06/02

Down111lbs!!

Thanks to Dr. K!

November 30, 2003

In a message dated 11/30/2003 7:50:43 PM Central Standard Time,

mjs93311@... writes:

> Maybe I missed that part, but they definately said she " dieted " her

> way up and then changed her eating to high protein, low carbs and

> lost the weight. THey never mentioned WLS while I was watching, if

> you mean the show about the English woman, Trash Can Full of Skin.

>

> Marta

>

I went back and looked on the tivo recording of it, and yes she low carbed it

becaiuse they showed her eating eggs and some sort of ham fried. Said she did

it without surgery. Maybe she saw another one, there are so many lately.

in Bama

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VBG to RNY revision 1996-Failed

Rny to Ds revision 12/06/02

Down111lbs!!

Thanks to Dr. K!

November 30, 2003

In a message dated 11/30/2003 7:58:57 PM Central Standard Time,

mjs93311@... writes:

> THanks, Mel, I thought that was the case. But, yeah, there are a

> lot of shows about this stuff on right now! Like Oprah. After

> seeing that one woman, the Hollywood make-up artist, I don't think

> my breasts look that bad afterall.

>

> Marta

>

There's a guy in Birmingham, I saw some of his work on the internet. I

e-mailed him about a circumfrential lift like the lady on TV had. I know it will

be

a while, but I want to look into who does this in this area. Anyway after

looking at his boob jobs, I was impressed. He does good Boobs...LOL. Maybe a

reduction isn't so bad an idea after all.....How much did you say had to be

removed? How does that interpret as to bra size? I'm still a DD with 111 gone so

maybe I could stand a size or 2 gone..... I never wanted to be big boobed

anyway,

and My 17 yo daughter wants a boob reduction so bad it's unreal! I wonder if

it's practical with someone who hasn't had kids yet? Or would she be better to

wait?

in Bama

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VBG to RNY revision 1996-Failed

Rny to Ds revision 12/06/02

Down111lbs!!

Thanks to Dr. K!

November 30, 2003

> In a message dated 11/30/2003 9:51:34 AM Central Standard Time,

> mjs93311@y... writes:

>

> > Mel, I thought she looked pretty darn good for someone who lost

over

> >.... How do I explain....?? She was rounded like

> a " barrel "

I meant, her skin looked pretty good. I would have expected more

hanging skin, wouldn't you? I agree, she was still fat. I think

Dr. Lockwood would say that the fat she had left wouldn't come off

with diet. I am putting words in his mouth, but he has said things

to that effect before.

Marta

November 30, 2003

In a message dated 11/29/2003 11:09:24 PM Pacific Standard Time,

MDL1031@... writes:

> So does the TT or pannie help back pain?

I am hoping so, . The spinal pain I am going through is worse now

than it has EVER been. I think that either when we are very obese, the fat

tissue itself helps to hold things together when we don't have the muscle

strength.

Another of my theories runs: My body has changed so much my body mechanics

have changed, so until I get used to my new body (which is set to change a lot

with the tt/hr in February) I will continue to suffer back pain. And the

final theory (in my mind) is that the weight of the drooping skin pulls our

posture out of whack, so our backs hurt more.

Where does this leave me? With HOPE things will get better!

Your sister in pain and in GR-DS! LOL

Hugs and blessings, Ann

November 30, 2003

In a message dated 11/30/2003 10:38:51 PM Central Standard Time,

stolzfamily@... writes:

> THen, before closing them up, the surgeon

> should implant 5 one pound soup cans in their lower abdomen. Let that

> extra 5 pounds of weight hang down, pulling everything inside down with

> it. How fast would they heal? How many of them would need to be

> re-repaired? Does this not make sense to anyone else? Of course, after

> abdominal surgery, no lifting weights is always mandatory. How is it that

> the extra skin we have, and 5 lbs is a conservative estimate, but one

> that Dr. K had told me particular to my panni, helping vs hurting our

> recovery?

>

,

I was looking for something last night and saw where in people with a

hernia and a pannie the surgical removal of the pannie is reccommended for the

exact reason you described. It said that the weight of the pannie can cause

the hernia repair to fail. So it should be easy to argue that the pannie is

medically necesary.

in Bama

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VBG to RNY revision 1996-Failed

Rny to Ds revision 12/06/02

Down111lbs!!

Thanks to Dr. K!

November 30, 2003

> I saw that same show just today and at the beginning it states

that she had

> weightloss surgery but did not specify to which procedure she had

done. I think

> she did a great job of getting the weight off and excercising!

> Janice

> -95 lbs

Maybe I missed that part, but they definately said she " dieted " her

way up and then changed her eating to high protein, low carbs and

lost the weight. THey never mentioned WLS while I was watching, if

you mean the show about the English woman, Trash Can Full of Skin.

Marta

November 30, 2003

> I went back and looked on the tivo recording of it, and yes she

low carbed it

> becaiuse they showed her eating eggs and some sort of ham fried.

Said she did

> it without surgery. Maybe she saw another one, there are so many

lately.

THanks, Mel, I thought that was the case. But, yeah, there are a

lot of shows about this stuff on right now! Like Oprah. After

seeing that one woman, the Hollywood make-up artist, I don't think

my breasts look that bad afterall.

Marta

November 30, 2003

....How much did you say had to be

> removed? How does that interpret as to bra size?

I think it is 400 cc per breast which is about two cup sizes.

if

> it's practical with someone who hasn't had kids yet? Or would she

be better to

> wait?

They do them on teens. You know, as we age our breast tissue turns

into just fat. My last mammo was almost black (fat) and hardly any

breast tissue, even though I was still big, 44DD

Marta

November 30, 2003

Just to join the " pannie " discussion.

As some of you know, I was supposed to have my hernia repair/panni on

November 21, but because my insurance has denied the panni part, I

postponed it. (Thanks, again, Ed!)

In our appeal process, I am really pushing the medical necessity part, of

course. I have explained it, in my " warped logic " thus:

I will have the ventral hernia repair , which of course involves a long

incision to close that long hernia. Now, I think the people who deny that

this is medically necessary (the panni part) should have their abdomen

opened, and a hernia repair done. (Whether they have a hernia or not-just

cut and repair that muscle). THen, before closing them up, the surgeon

should implant 5 one pound soup cans in their lower abdomen. Let that

extra 5 pounds of weight hang down, pulling everything inside down with

it. How fast would they heal? How many of them would need to be

re-repaired? Does this not make sense to anyone else? Of course, after

abdominal surgery, no lifting weights is always mandatory. How is it that

the extra skin we have, and 5 lbs is a conservative estimate, but one

that Dr. K had told me particular to my panni, helping vs hurting our

recovery?

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November 30, 2003