nIR HEG

[Guest guest]

In general I tend to think about HEG as I would about aerobic exercise.  With nIR I would say the following guides me:1. nIR trains more specific areas (though they tend to have a more global effect when you combine a few of them), so train on the left (anywhere from the edge of the forehead to above the left eye), train on the right (ditto) and train in the center in each session.

2.  Rotate the order of training sites.  The prefrontal cortex (PFC) is not like an icecube tray, so when you train at Fp1 on the left, it will have an effect at Fp2 on the right as well.  First site is usually easiest to change, then the second and the third may be difficult to produce much change.

3.  Training too little is better than training too long (training " just right " is, of course, best).  You wouldn't take a new exerciser out on a 5-mile jog in his first session.  Don't try training 10 minutes at each site in the beginning.  Train till the brain shows it is tired, then stop.  Train 2 (maybe 3 in the beginning, when sessions are short) times a week.

4. I like to start training with our HEG AI design which has a nice graph for the client to watch.  I ask them to watch the line and figure out what makes it go up (usually single-pointed focus).  Most clients can get it to rise a little (maybe 30 seconds to a minute or more), then they can hold a plateau (these are trend lines I'm talking about: they rise and fall, but the tops and bottoms of each successive step are higher--or about level--or they begin to fall).  Finally the trend turns down, indicating that the brain is nicely toasted at that site--like finally working up a little sweat and breathing more deeply when you are walking or jogging.  That's a good time to stop.  If you don't want to look at what the brain is doing, you can start with something like 4 minutes per site, then raise it a minute ever 2-3 sessions.

5. I tell the client, " don't think; don't try.  Just pay attention to the screen (or a task if you choose to use one).  You can watch a DVD or play solitaire or read a book if you wish.  Thinking and trying are inside your head.  I find that focusing out and staying focused outside your thoughts is much harder for most people and activates the PFC better.

6. Increase a little at a time until you can do 10 minutes at each of three sites once every 4 days.7. If you can't tell it's working, it's not working.  Can the client focus better in real life? Is he getting more organized?  Is she able to regulate her emotions better?  Whatever the client started training to change...should change.

Hope this is helpful.Pete-- Van Deusenpvdtlc@...http://www.brain-trainer.comUSA 305 433 3160

BR 47 3346 6235The Learning Curve, Inc.

On Sat, Jun 4, 2011 at 10:27 PM, missy963 <eeeglepeace@...> wrote:

 

I am relatively new to HEG and want to use it to the best of my ability. There is not much reading material regarding HEG. I am not 100% sure if I am using it correctly. How does one know if it is benefiting the client. I am using it primarily for ADHD clients and would like to use it for anxiety as well. What should I be looking for? I am using the Brainmaster system.

[Guest guest]

Missy,No, I don't have any designs that work with Brainmaster's HEG.  For $483 you can buy BioExplorer unlocked for your BMer, but I'm not sure that will solve your problem.  Even in BE, even with two devices made by the same manufacturer, there are designs for Pendants and others for Pocket A3's.

In my opinion, the best system for HEG in terms of cost-effectiveness, ease of use and good training options is the Pendant HEG (either nIR or pIR) with the appropriate headband.  The cost for both is $1000--about $1400 with BioExplorer.

If you already have HEG set up on your BMer (the hardware you need to make it work) then I guess I would see what kinds of training options were available for it.  If you haven't spent the money to adapt your BMer to HEG, then you might consider getting BE with the unlock code (if you want to use it for EEG as well with your BMer.)  Or just pay $383 and get the Pendant and continue to use the BMer software for EEG training on your box.

Pete-- Van Deusenpvdtlc@...http://www.brain-trainer.comUSA 305 433 3160BR 47 3346 6235

The Learning Curve, Inc.

On Sun, Jun 5, 2011 at 11:17 AM, missy963 <eeeglepeace@...> wrote:

 

Thank you Pete for the information.

I have a few more questions, what is that HEG AI design and is it compatible with the Brainmaster system? Do I have to purchase the bioexplorer system? I would like to make HEG a major part of my treatment with clients. While I believe EEG is best, time, consistency, and most importantly cost is an issue for most of my clients. Since most suffer from either ADHD or anxiety I felt this was a better option.

Thanks again for your assistance

[Guest guest]

Think of HEG training like aerobic exercise.  As aerobics improve the body's systems for getting more blood efficiently into the cardio-respiratory system and changing one's ability to activate and sustain activation in response to demand, so HEG can improve the capillary network and distribution system for getting blood out into the neighborhoods where the PFC neurons work.  That means that an area can activate more fully in response to a task and sustain that activation for a longer period.

Just as doing aerobic exercise doesn't mean that a person HAS TO run all the time and stay in a high-energy state, so improving the capacity in the PFC doesn't mean that it MUST be highly activated.  It's capacity that's being trained.

I don't know why anyone would train only one side of the PFC.  TRYING to get depressed or anxious?!  The whole idea is to do right side, left side and center for about equal times each.Pete

-- Van Deusenpvdtlc@...http://www.brain-trainer.comUSA 305 433 3160BR 47 3346 6235The Learning Curve, Inc.

On Wed, Oct 12, 2011 at 11:24 PM, har3str <capeco2@...> wrote:

As a 'newbie' in this area, I would be grateful for any advice to clarify the following questions. Taking the evidene that, for example, depression is associated with frontal asymetry, and that broadly speaking increased activity on the lhs is associated with positive affect and memories, while incresed activity on the rhs is associated with negative emotions, is there a risk of, for example, precipitating a depressive episode, or OCD behaviour, through selectively activating the the prefrontal areas using nIR HEG?

In the same vein, is it possible to 'overtrain' using HEG?

Any ideas woud be very welcome.

[Guest guest]

> In the same vein, is it possible to 'overtrain' using HEG?

From what I understand this is true. My understanding is that Pete's

recommendation is to only train until the graph starts to turn downwards, and

then stop. Apparently if you continue to train after this point it is

unproductive, and you can end up with a headache for a day or so.

[Guest guest]

Good answer, .Again, think of aerobics.  If you train by running 10 miles your first time out or running 20 miles a day 6 or 7 days a week, you can have negative results.Train until the brain's performance shows signs of having peaked, then pause and move to the next site.  Per Hershel Toomim's study, he felt that every 4 days was the optimal training frequency.  More often resulted in diminishing gains.  In the beginning, when a client may be achieving 4-7 minutes per site, I might train every 3 days, but there is never a reason to my knowledge to train more than 10minutes at each of 3 sites.

Headaches, irritability, drowsiness/fogginess are some results from training too long or too often.Pete-- Van Deusenpvdtlc@...http://www.brain-trainer.com

USA 305 433 3160BR 47 3346 6235The Learning Curve, Inc.

On Thu, Oct 13, 2011 at 2:12 PM, mercado_83 <mercado_83@...> wrote:

 

> In the same vein, is it possible to 'overtrain' using HEG?

From what I understand this is true. My understanding is that Pete's recommendation is to only train until the graph starts to turn downwards, and then stop. Apparently if you continue to train after this point it is unproductive, and you can end up with a headache for a day or so.

[Guest guest]

I agree with Pete,In fact I've observed that when I am trainning an ADD cliente more than 8 minite per site he says be has a headache, but checking with the cliente the next session he says that just a few minutes after the session the headache desapears.Best,Nazareth RibeiroDe: pvdtlc <pvdtlc@...>Para: Enviadas: Quinta-feira, 13 de Outubro de 2011 14:24Assunto: Re: Re: nIR HEG

Good answer, .Again, think of aerobics.  If you train by running 10 miles your first time out or running 20 miles a day 6 or 7 days a week, you can have negative results.Train until the brain's performance shows signs of having peaked, then pause and move to the next site.  Per Hershel Toomim's study, he felt that every 4 days was the optimal training frequency.  More often resulted in diminishing gains.  In the beginning, when a client may be achieving 4-7 minutes per site, I might train every 3 days, but there is never a reason to my knowledge to train more than 10minutes at each of 3 sites.

Headaches, irritability, drowsiness/fogginess are some results from training too long or too often.Pete-- Van Deusenpvdtlc@...http://www.brain-trainer.com

USA 305 433 3160BR 47 3346 6235The Learning Curve, Inc.

On Thu, Oct 13, 2011 at 2:12 PM, mercado_83 <mercado_83@...> wrote:

 

> In the same vein, is it possible to 'overtrain' using HEG?

From what I understand this is true. My understanding is that Pete's recommendation is to only train until the graph starts to turn downwards, and then stop. Apparently if you continue to train after this point it is unproductive, and you can end up with a headache for a day or so.

[Guest guest]

Dear AllMany thanks for the input.Using the Pendant nIR AI DVD.bxd design, for regular training, would one expect to see a change over time in the ratio reflected on the graph and in the numbers on the right of the screen? If so, what is the significance of this change.

RegardsAdam.2011/10/15 Consultório Barra <barraconsultorio@...>

 

I agree with Pete,In fact I've observed that when I am trainning an ADD cliente more than 8 minite per site he says be has a headache, but checking with the cliente the next session he says that just a few minutes after the session the headache desapears.

Best,Nazareth Ribeiro

De: pvdtlc <pvdtlc@...>Para:

Enviadas: Quinta-feira, 13 de Outubro de 2011 14:24Assunto: Re: Re: nIR HEG

 

Good answer, .Again, think of aerobics.  If you train by running 10 miles your first time out or running 20 miles a day 6 or 7 days a week, you can have negative results.Train until the brain's performance shows signs of having peaked, then pause and move to the next site.  Per Hershel Toomim's study, he felt that every 4 days was the optimal training frequency.  More often resulted in diminishing gains.  In the beginning, when a client may be achieving 4-7 minutes per site, I might train every 3 days, but there is never a reason to my knowledge to train more than 10minutes at each of 3 sites.

Headaches, irritability, drowsiness/fogginess are some results from training too long or too often.Pete-- Van Deusenpvdtlc@...

http://www.brain-trainer.com

USA 305 433 3160BR 47 3346 6235The Learning Curve, Inc.

On Thu, Oct 13, 2011 at 2:12 PM, mercado_83 <mercado_83@...> wrote:

 

> In the same vein, is it possible to 'overtrain' using HEG?

From what I understand this is true. My understanding is that Pete's recommendation is to only train until the graph starts to turn downwards, and then stop. Apparently if you continue to train after this point it is unproductive, and you can end up with a headache for a day or so.

[Guest guest]

Adam,Here's the question I ask first:  Do you believe you'll need to see " data " to know whether training is working or not.  HEG training is aerobic exercising of the brain's executive center, so that key area increases its ability to activate more quickly and maintain his energy levels over time as required.

If that doesn't happen, you won't be very satisfied with HEG.  It won't matter what the graphs look like.With any aerobic exercise, the goal is to get into the target energy range and sustain it longer and longer--improve the supply of oxygenated blood.  The graphs show whether you are getting into the " training range " for your brain, just like a pulsemeter for the heart.

Watching what happens during a session:  the client's ability to increase levels quickly, how long the higher levels can be maintained.  How long does it take the client, when you tell him to concentrate: " don't think, don't try. Just watch the line (bar) and figure out how you make it go up. "   Most will fairly quickly figure it out, focusing intently on something. You can watch what percent they increased from the baseline, how quickly the rise from baseline to high activation is done, how long is the plateau sustained and when it starts a clear downward trend.  You can " compare " sessions if you want to, or you can just use them to show the client improvements.  But the place to focus is on specific training goals.

When I was a hospital administrator doing turnarounds for big hospital management companies, I learned the truth of an old management maxim:  If you want to change something, pay attention to it.You are doing 3 different segments in most HEG sessions: left edge, right edge and center of the forehead.  I do them in different orders each time, because the strongest response can usually be achieved in the first site.  But training the first already has an effect on the second, so increases can be harder to achieve there--even harder in the third.  But it's doing the exercise that makes the changes.  Help the client define specifically what changes are desired, and help track what happens in those areas--and others not expected.

With nIR you aren't measuring temperature.  You are measuring the relationship between red and infrared light picked up at the sensor (under the white dot) combined with the infrared temperature of the area being trained.  It's a combination of two different indicators, so I don't see the measures as should show an upward trend over a series of sessions--though they well may.

Focus on what you want to change in the real world.  Give feedback on performance within a session using the graphs, DVD's or whatever kind of feedback the client finds helpful.Pete-- Van Deusen

pvdtlc@...http://www.brain-trainer.comUSA 305 433 3160BR 47 3346 6235The Learning Curve, Inc.

On Sun, Oct 16, 2011 at 8:56 PM, ADAM STRUBEN <capeco2@...> wrote:

 

Dear AllMany thanks for the input.Using the Pendant nIR AI DVD.bxd design, for regular training, would one expect to see a change over time in the ratio reflected on the graph and in the numbers on the right of the screen? If so, what is the significance of this change.

RegardsAdam.2011/10/15 Consultório Barra <barraconsultorio@...>

 

I agree with Pete,In fact I've observed that when I am trainning an ADD cliente more than 8 minite per site he says be has a headache, but checking with the cliente the next session he says that just a few minutes after the session the headache desapears.

Best,Nazareth Ribeiro

De: pvdtlc <pvdtlc@...>Para:

Enviadas: Quinta-feira, 13 de Outubro de 2011 14:24Assunto: Re: Re: nIR HEG

 

Good answer, .Again, think of aerobics.  If you train by running 10 miles your first time out or running 20 miles a day 6 or 7 days a week, you can have negative results.Train until the brain's performance shows signs of having peaked, then pause and move to the next site.  Per Hershel Toomim's study, he felt that every 4 days was the optimal training frequency.  More often resulted in diminishing gains.  In the beginning, when a client may be achieving 4-7 minutes per site, I might train every 3 days, but there is never a reason to my knowledge to train more than 10minutes at each of 3 sites.

Headaches, irritability, drowsiness/fogginess are some results from training too long or too often.Pete-- Van Deusenpvdtlc@...

http://www.brain-trainer.com

USA 305 433 3160BR 47 3346 6235The Learning Curve, Inc.

On Thu, Oct 13, 2011 at 2:12 PM, mercado_83 <mercado_83@...> wrote:

 

> In the same vein, is it possible to 'overtrain' using HEG?

From what I understand this is true. My understanding is that Pete's recommendation is to only train until the graph starts to turn downwards, and then stop. Apparently if you continue to train after this point it is unproductive, and you can end up with a headache for a day or so.

[Guest guest]

Dear PeteMany thanks for your comprehensive answer. I take your point about concentrating on outcomes rather than the measures on the system.That said however, people are interested in seeing an 'objective' measure of progress from session to session, if such a thing is relevant. In the physical training analogy, many runners use a heart rate monitor to measure their progress as they get fitter, and to give them an indication of when they are operating in their optimal training zone.

My question is therefore, can one expect to see an increase in baseline starting perfusion from session to session using nIR HEG over a period of time. Is there any data on this? I may be barking up the wrong tree on this, and maybe  what you are saying below is that the changes that occur in the neural circuitry, and hence neural capacity, occur during the training session (and maybe for a short period thereafter) , and it is these changes that are left behind when the perfusion of the frontal lobes returns to it's 'baseline' or 'resting level'. If this is the case, then measuring absolute perfusion levels over time is not relevant. I still can't help wondering however whether one should see a change (increase) over time in the perfusion levels, much like the gradual decrease in resting heart rate experienced by an athlete in training.

I would be grateful for any comments, or referral to data which might throw some light on this question.RegardsAdam.On 17 October 2011 11:55, pvdtlc <pvdtlc@...> wrote:

 

Adam,Here's the question I ask first:  Do you believe you'll need to see " data " to know whether training is working or not.  HEG training is aerobic exercising of the brain's executive center, so that key area increases its ability to activate more quickly and maintain his energy levels over time as required.

If that doesn't happen, you won't be very satisfied with HEG.  It won't matter what the graphs look like.With any aerobic exercise, the goal is to get into the target energy range and sustain it longer and longer--improve the supply of oxygenated blood.  The graphs show whether you are getting into the " training range " for your brain, just like a pulsemeter for the heart.

Watching what happens during a session:  the client's ability to increase levels quickly, how long the higher levels can be maintained.  How long does it take the client, when you tell him to concentrate: " don't think, don't try. Just watch the line (bar) and figure out how you make it go up. "   Most will fairly quickly figure it out, focusing intently on something. You can watch what percent they increased from the baseline, how quickly the rise from baseline to high activation is done, how long is the plateau sustained and when it starts a clear downward trend.  You can " compare " sessions if you want to, or you can just use them to show the client improvements.  But the place to focus is on specific training goals.

When I was a hospital administrator doing turnarounds for big hospital management companies, I learned the truth of an old management maxim:  If you want to change something, pay attention to it.You are doing 3 different segments in most HEG sessions: left edge, right edge and center of the forehead.  I do them in different orders each time, because the strongest response can usually be achieved in the first site.  But training the first already has an effect on the second, so increases can be harder to achieve there--even harder in the third.  But it's doing the exercise that makes the changes.  Help the client define specifically what changes are desired, and help track what happens in those areas--and others not expected.

With nIR you aren't measuring temperature.  You are measuring the relationship between red and infrared light picked up at the sensor (under the white dot) combined with the infrared temperature of the area being trained.  It's a combination of two different indicators, so I don't see the measures as should show an upward trend over a series of sessions--though they well may.

Focus on what you want to change in the real world.  Give feedback on performance within a session using the graphs, DVD's or whatever kind of feedback the client finds helpful.Pete

-- Van Deusen

pvdtlc@...http://www.brain-trainer.comUSA 305 433 3160

BR 47 3346 6235The Learning Curve, Inc.

On Sun, Oct 16, 2011 at 8:56 PM, ADAM STRUBEN <capeco2@...> wrote:

 

Dear AllMany thanks for the input.Using the Pendant nIR AI DVD.bxd design, for regular training, would one expect to see a change over time in the ratio reflected on the graph and in the numbers on the right of the screen? If so, what is the significance of this change.

RegardsAdam.2011/10/15 Consultório Barra <barraconsultorio@...>

 

I agree with Pete,In fact I've observed that when I am trainning an ADD cliente more than 8 minite per site he says be has a headache, but checking with the cliente the next session he says that just a few minutes after the session the headache desapears.

Best,Nazareth Ribeiro

De: pvdtlc <pvdtlc@...>Para:

Enviadas: Quinta-feira, 13 de Outubro de 2011 14:24Assunto: Re: Re: nIR HEG

 

Good answer, .Again, think of aerobics.  If you train by running 10 miles your first time out or running 20 miles a day 6 or 7 days a week, you can have negative results.Train until the brain's performance shows signs of having peaked, then pause and move to the next site.  Per Hershel Toomim's study, he felt that every 4 days was the optimal training frequency.  More often resulted in diminishing gains.  In the beginning, when a client may be achieving 4-7 minutes per site, I might train every 3 days, but there is never a reason to my knowledge to train more than 10minutes at each of 3 sites.

Headaches, irritability, drowsiness/fogginess are some results from training too long or too often.Pete-- Van Deusenpvdtlc@...

http://www.brain-trainer.com

USA 305 433 3160BR 47 3346 6235The Learning Curve, Inc.

On Thu, Oct 13, 2011 at 2:12 PM, mercado_83 <mercado_83@...> wrote:

 

> In the same vein, is it possible to 'overtrain' using HEG?

From what I understand this is true. My understanding is that Pete's recommendation is to only train until the graph starts to turn downwards, and then stop. Apparently if you continue to train after this point it is unproductive, and you can end up with a headache for a day or so.

[Guest guest]

What measurable changes (outside of plain old performance) would you see when someone was suddenly able to ride a bike who couldn't before.Sure, a runner checks his heart-rate during exercise to see if he's in the training range.  That's feedback for the heart.  Seeing the graph rise or the movie play or whatever is feedback relative to training range for the PFC with HEG.  I don't know of any runners who graph their heart-rates from session to sesion.  They may graph how far they were able to run, how quickly they ran, etc., but those are again performances.

If you assume that there is a stable situation in your brain (unlike any other part of your body) and that if you checked the ratio of red/infrared blood and its relationship with infrared temperature in the same spot, even at the same time every day it wouldn't vary, I think you'd be quite disappointed.  Even going to the gym or jogging you have probably noticed that some days it's easy; some days it's hard work.  Thousands of things affect that relationship (which, by the way, is kind of a derivative), like how well you slept last night, when you last ate, how much you ate, what kind of mood you are in, what you've been doing for the last hour, etc.

The objective is to teach those brain areas to activate physiologically upon demand, from wherever they are when you start, and to be able to sustain that activation--improvement in stamina--over longer and longer periods.  I'm not sure how you measure that over time except by saying, " I feel happier. "   " I focus better for longer periods. " " I have greater control of myself. "   " I'm planning and organizing more effectively when that's appropriate. "   etc.

Pete-- Van Deusenpvdtlc@...http://www.brain-trainer.comUSA 305 433 3160BR 47 3346 6235

The Learning Curve, Inc.

On Tue, Oct 18, 2011 at 11:28 PM, ADAM STRUBEN <capeco2@...> wrote:

 

Dear PeteMany thanks for your comprehensive answer. I take your point about concentrating on outcomes rather than the measures on the system.That said however, people are interested in seeing an 'objective' measure of progress from session to session, if such a thing is relevant. In the physical training analogy, many runners use a heart rate monitor to measure their progress as they get fitter, and to give them an indication of when they are operating in their optimal training zone.

My question is therefore, can one expect to see an increase in baseline starting perfusion from session to session using nIR HEG over a period of time. Is there any data on this? I may be barking up the wrong tree on this, and maybe  what you are saying below is that the changes that occur in the neural circuitry, and hence neural capacity, occur during the training session (and maybe for a short period thereafter) , and it is these changes that are left behind when the perfusion of the frontal lobes returns to it's 'baseline' or 'resting level'. If this is the case, then measuring absolute perfusion levels over time is not relevant. I still can't help wondering however whether one should see a change (increase) over time in the perfusion levels, much like the gradual decrease in resting heart rate experienced by an athlete in training.

I would be grateful for any comments, or referral to data which might throw some light on this question.RegardsAdam.On 17 October 2011 11:55, pvdtlc <pvdtlc@...> wrote:

 

Adam,Here's the question I ask first:  Do you believe you'll need to see " data " to know whether training is working or not.  HEG training is aerobic exercising of the brain's executive center, so that key area increases its ability to activate more quickly and maintain his energy levels over time as required.

If that doesn't happen, you won't be very satisfied with HEG.  It won't matter what the graphs look like.With any aerobic exercise, the goal is to get into the target energy range and sustain it longer and longer--improve the supply of oxygenated blood.  The graphs show whether you are getting into the " training range " for your brain, just like a pulsemeter for the heart.

Watching what happens during a session:  the client's ability to increase levels quickly, how long the higher levels can be maintained.  How long does it take the client, when you tell him to concentrate: " don't think, don't try. Just watch the line (bar) and figure out how you make it go up. "   Most will fairly quickly figure it out, focusing intently on something. You can watch what percent they increased from the baseline, how quickly the rise from baseline to high activation is done, how long is the plateau sustained and when it starts a clear downward trend.  You can " compare " sessions if you want to, or you can just use them to show the client improvements.  But the place to focus is on specific training goals.

When I was a hospital administrator doing turnarounds for big hospital management companies, I learned the truth of an old management maxim:  If you want to change something, pay attention to it.You are doing 3 different segments in most HEG sessions: left edge, right edge and center of the forehead.  I do them in different orders each time, because the strongest response can usually be achieved in the first site.  But training the first already has an effect on the second, so increases can be harder to achieve there--even harder in the third.  But it's doing the exercise that makes the changes.  Help the client define specifically what changes are desired, and help track what happens in those areas--and others not expected.

With nIR you aren't measuring temperature.  You are measuring the relationship between red and infrared light picked up at the sensor (under the white dot) combined with the infrared temperature of the area being trained.  It's a combination of two different indicators, so I don't see the measures as should show an upward trend over a series of sessions--though they well may.

Focus on what you want to change in the real world.  Give feedback on performance within a session using the graphs, DVD's or whatever kind of feedback the client finds helpful.Pete

-- Van Deusen

pvdtlc@...http://www.brain-trainer.comUSA 305 433 3160

BR 47 3346 6235The Learning Curve, Inc.

On Sun, Oct 16, 2011 at 8:56 PM, ADAM STRUBEN <capeco2@...> wrote:

 

Dear AllMany thanks for the input.Using the Pendant nIR AI DVD.bxd design, for regular training, would one expect to see a change over time in the ratio reflected on the graph and in the numbers on the right of the screen? If so, what is the significance of this change.

RegardsAdam.2011/10/15 Consultório Barra <barraconsultorio@...>

 

I agree with Pete,In fact I've observed that when I am trainning an ADD cliente more than 8 minite per site he says be has a headache, but checking with the cliente the next session he says that just a few minutes after the session the headache desapears.

Best,Nazareth Ribeiro

De: pvdtlc <pvdtlc@...>Para:

Enviadas: Quinta-feira, 13 de Outubro de 2011 14:24Assunto: Re: Re: nIR HEG

 

Good answer, .Again, think of aerobics.  If you train by running 10 miles your first time out or running 20 miles a day 6 or 7 days a week, you can have negative results.Train until the brain's performance shows signs of having peaked, then pause and move to the next site.  Per Hershel Toomim's study, he felt that every 4 days was the optimal training frequency.  More often resulted in diminishing gains.  In the beginning, when a client may be achieving 4-7 minutes per site, I might train every 3 days, but there is never a reason to my knowledge to train more than 10minutes at each of 3 sites.

Headaches, irritability, drowsiness/fogginess are some results from training too long or too often.Pete-- Van Deusenpvdtlc@...

http://www.brain-trainer.com

USA 305 433 3160BR 47 3346 6235The Learning Curve, Inc.

On Thu, Oct 13, 2011 at 2:12 PM, mercado_83 <mercado_83@...> wrote:

 

> In the same vein, is it possible to 'overtrain' using HEG?

From what I understand this is true. My understanding is that Pete's recommendation is to only train until the graph starts to turn downwards, and then stop. Apparently if you continue to train after this point it is unproductive, and you can end up with a headache for a day or so.

[Guest guest]

Dear all,

I am relatively new to the field of nIR HEG, but I have noticed a tendency for

the reading and graph to start high and then drop precipitously before

stabilising and starting to rise again. I have always regarded this as

artefactual and just the system 'settling in' for the first 20 seconds or so.

Would you agree with this or does this represents a 'real' effect? The hardware

is a pendant nIR and the software is Pete's design running on Bioexplorer.

Adam.

[Guest guest]

Adam,The software needs to fill registers to calculate the values and " calibrate " the unit to the brain that day.  That's why there is a baseline process.  When the signal stabilizes, usually in about 30 seconds, you should set the baseline and you are ready to train.

Pete-- Van Deusenpvdtlc@...http://www.brain-trainer.comUSA 305 433 3160BR 47 3346 6235

The Learning Curve, Inc.

On Thu, Dec 1, 2011 at 12:15 AM, har3str <capeco2@...> wrote:

I am relatively new to the field of nIR HEG, but I have noticed a tendency for the reading and graph to start high and then drop precipitously before stabilising and starting to rise again. I have always regarded this as artefactual and just the system 'settling in' for the first 20 seconds or so. Would you agree with this or does this represents a 'real' effect? The hardware is a pendant nIR and the software is Pete's design running on Bioexplorer.

[Guest guest]

Just as you might go jogging one day and feel great, loose and easy; another day stiff and struggling; so the brain's ability to produce energy changes from hour to hour and day to day.  That's why yu click the Capture Baseline button shortly into each segment of each session.

Forget the numbers.  Maybe they'll go up from session to session or maybe not.  That's not what's important in any case.  I track how fast I can raise the ratio at each site on a day, how much of an increase I produce and how long I can sustain it.  Sometimes how many seconds I can hold the Attention Index at 100.  But what I care about is " what is changing in the real world. "

Pete-- Van Deusenpvdtlc@...http://www.brain-trainer.comUSA 305 433 3160BR 47 3346 6235

The Learning Curve, Inc.

On Sat, Dec 3, 2011 at 11:10 PM, ADAM STRUBEN <capeco2@...> wrote:

 

Hi Pete. I thought it might be something like this, but thanks for confirming it.When you say it 'calibrates' to the brain that day, does this mean that it effectively calculates a 'new' baseline for each session? If so, are comparisons of the values between different sessions then meaningful?

RegardsAdam.On 1 December 2011 11:00, pvdtlc <pvdtlc@...> wrote:

 

Adam,The software needs to fill registers to calculate the values and " calibrate " the unit to the brain that day.  That's why there is a baseline process.  When the signal stabilizes, usually in about 30 seconds, you should set the baseline and you are ready to train.

Pete-- Van Deusenpvdtlc@...http://www.brain-trainer.comUSA 305 433 3160

BR 47 3346 6235

The Learning Curve, Inc.

On Thu, Dec 1, 2011 at 12:15 AM, har3str <capeco2@...> wrote:

I am relatively new to the field of nIR HEG, but I have noticed a tendency for the reading and graph to start high and then drop precipitously before stabilising and starting to rise again. I have always regarded this as artefactual and just the system 'settling in' for the first 20 seconds or so. Would you agree with this or does this represents a 'real' effect? The hardware is a pendant nIR and the software is Pete's design running on Bioexplorer.

[Guest guest]

Just as you might go jogging one day and feel great, loose and easy; another day stiff and struggling; so the brain's ability to produce energy changes from hour to hour and day to day.  That's why yu click the Capture Baseline button shortly into each segment of each session.

Forget the numbers.  Maybe they'll go up from session to session or maybe not.  That's not what's important in any case.  I track how fast I can raise the ratio at each site on a day, how much of an increase I produce and how long I can sustain it.  Sometimes how many seconds I can hold the Attention Index at 100.  But what I care about is " what is changing in the real world. "

Pete-- Van Deusenpvdtlc@...http://www.brain-trainer.comUSA 305 433 3160BR 47 3346 6235

The Learning Curve, Inc.

On Sat, Dec 3, 2011 at 11:10 PM, ADAM STRUBEN <capeco2@...> wrote:

 

Hi Pete. I thought it might be something like this, but thanks for confirming it.When you say it 'calibrates' to the brain that day, does this mean that it effectively calculates a 'new' baseline for each session? If so, are comparisons of the values between different sessions then meaningful?

RegardsAdam.On 1 December 2011 11:00, pvdtlc <pvdtlc@...> wrote:

 

Adam,The software needs to fill registers to calculate the values and " calibrate " the unit to the brain that day.  That's why there is a baseline process.  When the signal stabilizes, usually in about 30 seconds, you should set the baseline and you are ready to train.

Pete-- Van Deusenpvdtlc@...http://www.brain-trainer.comUSA 305 433 3160

BR 47 3346 6235

The Learning Curve, Inc.

On Thu, Dec 1, 2011 at 12:15 AM, har3str <capeco2@...> wrote:

I am relatively new to the field of nIR HEG, but I have noticed a tendency for the reading and graph to start high and then drop precipitously before stabilising and starting to rise again. I have always regarded this as artefactual and just the system 'settling in' for the first 20 seconds or so. Would you agree with this or does this represents a 'real' effect? The hardware is a pendant nIR and the software is Pete's design running on Bioexplorer.