We need to RISE above our limitations!

[Guest guest]

's note on the ADA, which I got in May, is the reason why the

United States needs an amendment to the Constitution granting

universal rights to people with disabilities, especially those with

Asperger's Syndrome.

With mid-term elections coming up in November, I would like to ask

that all our members in the United States to work to vote ALL SOCIAL

CONSERVATIVES out of office. The reason why we don't have as many

rights as the insensitive, uncaring NTs is becasue the social

conservatives who serve in Congress have sat on their rear ends and

not worked toward strengthening the ADA. It is absolutely ridiculous

for our Congress to work on an amendment banning gay marriages

and " immigration reform " when the priority here is to protect OUR

rights. Our right to work without threats of retaliation. Our right

to enjoy the freedoms granted to everyone else. Our right to

economic self-sufficiency and security. For many of us, we need an

amendment to the U.S. Constitution protecting OUR rights.

We need to rise above our limitations...accepting such limitations

amounts to nothing more than defeat. And we need laws that help us,

not hurt us, NOW!

[Guest guest]

Are you saying you're a democrat? Asperger's isn't a disability. I figure if we start acting up like they did in the sixties riots then the real problems will start. Gay marriage was a concept diversion aimed at gays' emotional weakness. Marriage itself is binding only for two things; Possession of kids when the couple splits up and who gets the house when the couple splits up. The hardship only serves as a way of making the Aspie community stronger. Give us the same excuses as everyone else and we will be a burden, have less discipline and be the target of even more manipulation. The diagnosis of any mental difference from the average stat is a personal matter and not for the public by and large to know about. " B." <BSTL@...> wrote: 's note on the ADA, which I got in May, is the reason why the United States needs an amendment to the Constitution granting universal rights to people with disabilities, especially those with Asperger's Syndrome.With mid-term elections coming up in November, I would like to ask that all our members in the United States to work to vote ALL SOCIAL CONSERVATIVES out of office. The reason why we don't have as many rights as the insensitive, uncaring NTs is becasue the social conservatives who serve in Congress have sat on their rear ends and not worked toward strengthening the ADA. It is absolutely ridiculous for our Congress to work on an amendment banning gay marriages and "immigration reform" when the

priority here is to protect OUR rights. Our right to work without threats of retaliation. Our right to enjoy the freedoms granted to everyone else. Our right to economic self-sufficiency and security. For many of us, we need an amendment to the U.S. Constitution protecting OUR rights.We need to rise above our limitations...accepting such limitations amounts to nothing more than defeat. And we need laws that help us, not hurt us, NOW!

Want to be your own boss? Learn how on Small Business.

[Guest guest]

Are you saying you're a democrat? Asperger's isn't a disability. I figure if we start acting up like they did in the sixties riots then the real problems will start. Gay marriage was a concept diversion aimed at gays' emotional weakness. Marriage itself is binding only for two things; Possession of kids when the couple splits up and who gets the house when the couple splits up. The hardship only serves as a way of making the Aspie community stronger. Give us the same excuses as everyone else and we will be a burden, have less discipline and be the target of even more manipulation. The diagnosis of any mental difference from the average stat is a personal matter and not for the public by and large to know about. " B." <BSTL@...> wrote: 's note on the ADA, which I got in May, is the reason why the United States needs an amendment to the Constitution granting universal rights to people with disabilities, especially those with Asperger's Syndrome.With mid-term elections coming up in November, I would like to ask that all our members in the United States to work to vote ALL SOCIAL CONSERVATIVES out of office. The reason why we don't have as many rights as the insensitive, uncaring NTs is becasue the social conservatives who serve in Congress have sat on their rear ends and not worked toward strengthening the ADA. It is absolutely ridiculous for our Congress to work on an amendment banning gay marriages and "immigration reform" when the

priority here is to protect OUR rights. Our right to work without threats of retaliation. Our right to enjoy the freedoms granted to everyone else. Our right to economic self-sufficiency and security. For many of us, we need an amendment to the U.S. Constitution protecting OUR rights.We need to rise above our limitations...accepting such limitations amounts to nothing more than defeat. And we need laws that help us, not hurt us, NOW!

Want to be your own boss? Learn how on Small Business.

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 6/24/2006 9:30:37 AM Eastern Standard Time, BSTL@... writes:

It is absolutely ridiculous for our Congress to work on an amendment banning gay marriages and "immigration reform" when the priority here is to protect OUR rights. Our right to work without threats of retaliation. Our right to enjoy the freedoms granted to everyone else. Our right to economic self-sufficiency and security. For many of us, we need an amendment to the U.S. Constitution protecting OUR rights.

How incredibly selfish! To think that we so few in number deserve to take priority and prefence over the rest of the nation. A Constitutional Amendment for AS? That's just plain not going to happen, nor should it.

(quote) We need to rise above our limitations...accepting such limitations amounts to nothing more than defeat. And we need laws that help us, not hurt us, NOW!

And just how is a law on a book somehere going to help us overcome our limitations? It isn't. All it is going to do is to create yet another favored class to be hated by everyone else. We won't be seen as unique, but rather as another group of losers who can't make it without Big Brother forcing employers to hire them.

You want a law to help us? Talk the Departments of Education and Health and Human Services. Lobby for the creation of socializing courses for people with AS and other like disabilities. That would only affect us and not force laws on other people, people who, if more of us had the proper social skills, could be convinced that we do count even if we aren't quite standard.

It is going to take Aspies doing this work, to make ourselves accepted. It is going to take work on our part. Not voting out a party that "isn't" helping us in favor of another one that will create a larger problem and make captive voters of many of our kind in the process. Working on an individual basis to better ourselves is what is going to help in the long run. Screaming for political favoritism is only going to hurt us.

[Guest guest]

wrote: " ... <snip> ... We need to rise above our

limitations...accepting such limitations amounts to nothing more than

defeat. And we need laws that help us, not hurt us, NOW! "

the only limitations we have are the limitations each of us

places on our own person. Nothing has been legislated -- that I know

of -- that does not allow a person with AS the same rights as persons

without AS. If you know of such a law, please provide information on

same.

Perhaps I do not understand to what you are referring in which case, I

would apprecate more detailed information. Thank you.

Raven

[Guest guest]

wrote: " ... <snip> ... We need to rise above our

limitations...accepting such limitations amounts to nothing more than

defeat. And we need laws that help us, not hurt us, NOW! "

the only limitations we have are the limitations each of us

places on our own person. Nothing has been legislated -- that I know

of -- that does not allow a person with AS the same rights as persons

without AS. If you know of such a law, please provide information on

same.

Perhaps I do not understand to what you are referring in which case, I

would apprecate more detailed information. Thank you.

Raven

[Guest guest]

Now wait a second I am a Democrat and Im not an NT I resent that. I don't call you a stupid NT cause your a Republican now do I, How about we stop, attacking people personally. I purposely haven't been responding to a lot of this because I know my views are diametrically opposed to yours, and I didn't want to start a fight, but I will not stand down when I feel like I am being called out, so please stop. Discuss the issues not the politics of the issues, making everything right and left and we will have no arguement. Thank you, BethVISIGOTH@... wrote: And the Democrats aren't a bunch of stupid, insensitive and uncaring NTs? You think the Democrats aren't trying to run your political life? Do you think they actually care about you beyond your ability to raise money for them or vote for them, If you answer yes to any of those, then you are brainwashed and dead wrong. Yes the Democrats have been pushing all kinds of special regulations and laws for different groups. The reason for that is very simple: to make people dependant on them so they will always vote Democrat for fear of having their little slice of the government pie taken away. But really, depending on the government to force business to give you job isn't self-reliance or overcoming our limitations. It is simply admitting that we CAN'T overcome those limitations

and need the government to manage our lives for us. It implies that we are just as incapable of self-regulating as private industry. Big government always makes things worse. People get special preferences mandated by the government, which is exactly what you are proposing, and no one else takes them seriously anymore. So, if you want this to go through and then get a job under it, don't be the least bit surprised if coworkers are thinking, "there's the guy with AS, he's here because the government made the boss hire him. He must really be a mess."

Want to be your own boss? Learn how on Small Business.

[Guest guest]

>

>

> But really, depending on the government to force business to give you job

> isn't self-reliance or overcoming our limitations. It is simply admitting that

> we CAN'T overcome those limitations and need the government to manage our

> lives for us.

If you don't force business to give you a job, and business doesn't want to give you a job, how are going to get the job?

> So, if you want this to go through and then

> get a job under it, don't be the least bit surprised if coworkers are

> thinking, "there's the guy with AS, he's here because the government made the boss

> hire him. He must really be a mess."

There is nothing to lose, if the alternative is: "He's not here because

the boss exercised his arbitrary power not to hire him. He must be a

layabout, don't give him any welfare."

It's nothing to do with big or small government, it's a small question

of enacting to abolish an arbitrary power. Your society in America was

started by social groups fleeing from other types of arbitrary power,

and throughout your history you have contradicted yourselves by giving

employers that power to exercise economically. This is simply big

government by the bosses instead of the government, and it's just as

unelected as your British government in 1773 was.

Sheer life logic slowly eats away at oppression. It is just as healthy and logical -

* for democracy to break down your C18 colonial situation,

* for minority group interests to break down the power of the bosses,

* for bad school outcomes to break down the theoretical basis of homework,

* for international web communities like this one to break down support for immigration control.

[Guest guest]

>

If no

> employer will give you a job look at yourself. Are you over valuing

> yourself? Are you presenting the best image you can? What can YOU do to

> improve your chances? How can YOU put the odds in your favor. If you

> think you need the government to order an employer to hire you then the

> problem is you, and only you can decide to change that.

>

What if the problem is that I exercise any type of minority right or

lifestyle choice, in my own life and of no relevance to my ability to

do the job, that employers are all agreed on disapproving of and

wanting to stop folks doing?

They want you to spend your whole life saying " pleezy pleezy I'm

turning myself into everything YOU want and approve of " , instead of

living as your fulfilled self. Can't you see how that's a calculated

trick? and has been ever since the landless industrial economy formed,

C18?

If you say " the problem is you " , you are backing dictatorial power

exercised economically to order us how to live. Square that with each

principle of democracy you have ever been familiar with. What if the

problem is you are a trade unionist, a land rights activist (in South

America), or an environmental campaigner against a big project by a

multinational that has got all the local businesses in its pay and

anxious to keep its favour? Then " the problem is you " turns free

society itself entirely into a lie.

[Guest guest]

You are attacking Maurice. Maurice doesn't have a defeatist attitude. Here you go again attacking people Ace. You seem to have no understanding of anything and you attack when your'e not even provoked. There are institutions and straightjackets for that. acsnag@... wrote: maurice wrote:> What if the problem is that I exercise any type of minority right or> lifestyle choice, in my own life and of no relevance to my ability to> do the job, that employers are all agreed on disapproving of

and> wanting to stop folks doing?What the hell does that mean. Employers are people, they are never all agreed on anything, disproving or otherwise. Employers as a general rule don't judge applicants based on what they do outside of work.> > They want you to spend your whole life saying "pleezy pleezy I'm> turning myself into everything YOU want and approve of", instead of> living as your fulfilled self. Can't you see how that's a calculated> trick? and has been ever since the landless industrial economy formed,> C18?Say what????????????????????> > If you say "the problem is you", you are backing dictatorial power> exercised economically to order us how to live. Square that with each> principle of democracy you have ever been familiar with. What if the> problem is you are a trade unionist, a land rights activist (in South> America), or an

environmental campaigner against a big project by a> multinational that has got all the local businesses in its pay and> anxious to keep its favour? Then "the problem is you" turns free> society itself entirely into a lie.You are simply making a lame excuse for not taking responsibility for yourself. What does any of this have to do with being aspie? THE PROBLEM IS YOU AND YOUR DEFEATIST ATTITUDE. Nothing else!!!!!!Ace

How low will we go? Check out Messenger’s low PC-to-Phone call rates.

[Guest guest]

>

> > What if the problem is that I exercise any type of minority right or

> > lifestyle choice, in my own life and of no relevance to my ability to

> > do the job, that employers are all agreed on disapproving of and

> > wanting to stop folks doing?

>

> What the hell does that mean. Employers are people, they are never all

> agreed on anything, disproving or otherwise. Employers as a general

rule

> don't judge applicants based on what they do outside of work.

I'd like to hear other opinions on how that is in your country. It's

emphatically not the case in Britain. You are usually expected to

declare hobbies on job application forms. Courses on how to jobsearch,

given by the unemployment system or by colleges, tell you that

employers tend to be put off if you have hardly any hobbies or an

inactive life. They assume this makes you not such a good worker.

For aspies this is a pressure because we are more likely to be lacking

in much social activity at some times in our lives. When I was a

school leaver, without a social life because rebuilding from nothing

after my school disasters, I several times declared my interests in

railways and bus routes as hobbies, because I had to fill the space on

the form. It didn't work, and I realised so at an interview for an

office job in an electricity company - I saw they were just finding

these interests weird.

I was on one of these courses during the 90s Thatcherite mass

unemployment here. We did a session on compiling our CVs, and they

should have printed them up for us as part of helping us. But the

teacher just ripped up mine, when I rejected her order not to mention

in it my involvement in the Anti-Nazi League which campaigned against

far-right parties. She said the CV " is something that's going to get

you a job " and employers wouldn't like this item - yet it included

handling money on street stalls, so was a good work-relevant activity

to tell to employers.

I can remember an interview for a job that had nothing to do with

going to university, did not require that level of qualification, yet

the interview was a failiure and I didn't get the job because the

interviewer made very apparent a just personal view that I should have

gone to university and was unimpressed with me for not having.

In a place of science, a botany department of a museum, I had a

Born-Again Christian boss and saw him choose against employing someone

because he said on the form he was interested in philosophy. This boss

disapproved of philosophy, for being in conflict with relying on the

Bible.

An invaluable gain from aspie awareness has been that it shows it

seriously possible to have a physical sensitivity against certain ways

of dressing. For 2 centuries many employers have been arrogating an

entitlement to tell you how to dress when at work, though it usually

has nothing to do with ability to do the work. Head and face aspects

of this are bound to affect you outside work too. Their only motive

for this has been as a docility conditioner, breaking down your

thinking will. How many voices for 2 centuries have said, oh but it's

not important to fight this, you won't die from dress codes? and now

see it biologically proved that yes they are a biologically serious

irritant and dectracting factor to your body - which worsens your

performance as a worker!! It is in every boss's interest not to have

any dress code, and this is now known as scientific fact -

unless of course, the boss is more interested in your docility even

than how well you work, and that just proves what I said about their

power being a calculated trick.

>

> Say what????????????????????

In pre-industrial times, unless you were a self-employed local

craftsman or had a high-up town-based career you normally lived

rurally and had work on the land. You were under a feudal lord, but as

long as you were in occupancy of the land you could try to grow things

and weren't wholly dependent on money. Industrial workers, normally

living in a town/city, had lost the fall-back option of trying to grow

any significant amount of their diet and became wholly dependent for

subsistence on their wage from the boss who chose to hire them. Hence

widely mushrooming the boss's power over them and creating labour

struggles.

>

> You are simply making a lame excuse for not taking responsibility for

> yourself.

I am explaining why efforts for yourself sometimes don't work. Knowing

that makes it wrong and a social repression trick for society to leave

you dependent on them working. As Mike points out, nowhere have I said

this means don't make any efforts. You are missing the difference

between arguing that an action can't be relied on to succeed and

arguing that it shouldn't be done at all.

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 7/7/2006 1:37:03 AM Eastern Standard Time, no_reply writes:

I just wanted everyone to know that I AM watching what is going on here though my online time is limited.

I too have been following this thread but have decided against posting in it. I've made my position clear on this already and further argument just isn't worth my time. All I'll say is be careful what you wish for, you just might get it, and anything the government gives always has strings attached.

[Guest guest]

I just wanted everyone to know that I AM watching what is going on

here though my online time is limited.

One of the things I notice about Ace is that he has a tendency to fly

off the handle periodically, and sometimes eggs people on, but other

times he can be straight and to the point and his points are well

made.

As a general sort of warning, I just wanted to say that I lfet other

boards because I was tired of infighting and bickering and a few

months back I got fed up with a bunch of folks here and put a bunch

on moderation. A few troublemakers quit.

The upside is that we have very little trouble now with anyone. The

downside is that we have only a few people posting and not much

conversation going on.

But I would rather have less conversation and no troublemakers than

troublemakers and lots of conversation.

Due to my personal life being less than perfect right now, my

patience is thin, which is actually for the best as far as this group

goes because it means if the chain yanking goes too far in my

estimation I will boot out the chain yanker.

Now maybe that does not matter to the chain yanker himself, but the

chain yanker would do well to realize that there can be certain good

friendships established among online members that can be beneficial

and worthwhile in times of need.

So Ace, settle down and settle in please. Maurice and Nick have been

here longer than you have and, except when provoked a few times, they

haven't hardly caused any trouble at all. You cause trouble, even

when unprovoked. Try and cool your jets please.

Tom

Administrator

> What if the problem is that I exercise any type of minority right or

> lifestyle choice, in my own life and of no relevance to my ability

to

> do the job, that employers are all agreed on disapproving of and

> wanting to stop folks doing?

What the hell does that mean. Employers are people, they are never

all

agreed on anything, disproving or otherwise. Employers as a general

rule

don't judge applicants based on what they do outside of work.

>

> They want you to spend your whole life saying " pleezy pleezy I'm

> turning myself into everything YOU want and approve of " , instead of

> living as your fulfilled self. Can't you see how that's a calculated

> trick? and has been ever since the landless industrial economy

formed,

> C18?

Say what????????????????????

>

> If you say " the problem is you " , you are backing dictatorial power

> exercised economically to order us how to live. Square that with

each

> principle of democracy you have ever been familiar with. What if the

> problem is you are a trade unionist, a land rights activist (in

South

> America), or an environmental campaigner against a big project by a

> multinational that has got all the local businesses in its pay and

> anxious to keep its favour? Then " the problem is you " turns free

> society itself entirely into a lie.

You are simply making a lame excuse for not taking responsibility for

yourself. What does any of this have to do with being aspie? THE

PROBLEM

IS YOU AND YOUR DEFEATIST ATTITUDE. Nothing else!!!!!!

Ace

[Guest guest]

I would like to support Tom with this I am also watching, I have e-mailed you with warnings privately before Ace. This is a public notice, watch your step and stop personally insulting people. Stick to making the good points and take the high road. This will sail alot eaiser in this forum if you just take higher ground and stick to your discussions and leave the personal insults for other forums. I will also not hesitate to moderate if this continues Bethenvironmental1st2003 <no_reply > wrote: I just wanted everyone to know that I AM watching what is going on here though my online time is limited. One of the things I notice about Ace is that he has a tendency to fly off the handle periodically, and sometimes eggs people on, but other times he can be straight and to the point and his points are well made.As a general sort of warning, I just wanted to say that I lfet other boards because I was tired of infighting and bickering and a few months back I got fed up with a bunch of folks here and put a bunch on moderation. A few troublemakers quit. The upside is that we have very little trouble now with anyone. The downside is that we have only a few people posting and not much conversation going on.But I would rather have less conversation and no troublemakers than troublemakers and lots of conversation.Due to my personal life being less than perfect right now, my

patience is thin, which is actually for the best as far as this group goes because it means if the chain yanking goes too far in my estimation I will boot out the chain yanker.Now maybe that does not matter to the chain yanker himself, but the chain yanker would do well to realize that there can be certain good friendships established among online members that can be beneficial and worthwhile in times of need. So Ace, settle down and settle in please. Maurice and Nick have been here longer than you have and, except when provoked a few times, they haven't hardly caused any trouble at all. You cause trouble, even when unprovoked. Try and cool your jets please.TomAdministrator> What if the problem is that I exercise any type of minority right or> lifestyle choice, in my own life and of no relevance to my ability to> do the job, that employers are all agreed on disapproving of and> wanting to stop folks doing?What the hell does that mean. Employers are people, they are never all agreed on anything, disproving or otherwise. Employers as a general rule don't judge applicants based on what they do outside of work.> > They want you to spend your whole life saying "pleezy pleezy I'm> turning myself into

everything YOU want and approve of", instead of> living as your fulfilled self. Can't you see how that's a calculated> trick? and has been ever since the landless industrial economy formed,> C18?Say what????????????????????> > If you say "the problem is you", you are backing dictatorial power> exercised economically to order us how to live. Square that with each> principle of democracy you have ever been familiar with. What if the> problem is you are a trade unionist, a land rights activist (in South> America), or an environmental campaigner against a big project by a> multinational that has got all the local businesses in its pay and> anxious to keep its favour? Then "the problem is you" turns free> society itself entirely into a lie.You are simply making a lame excuse for not taking responsibility for yourself. What does any of this have to do

with being aspie? THE PROBLEM IS YOU AND YOUR DEFEATIST ATTITUDE. Nothing else!!!!!!Ace

Sneak preview the all-new .com. It's not radically different. Just radically better.