Re: Homeless People, What is the Solution?

[Guest guest]

Way back when we were dating and I were mistaken by some of the homeless people in Upper Darby. We were waiting in 69th street for a ride and a man and woman came up and talked to us, they were telling us about a shelter, we ended up talking to 7 or 8 people that were waiting. They were all very nice people. It was an opportunity for me to ask some questions also. So I took the opportunity, from what I can remember the most common story was that they were out of luck, for some reason or another lost jobs ect, and either didn't have family to help them or didn't want to depend upon people to help them. Most of them said that the help came at too high a cost. Without a telephone number or an address they couldn't get a job, but they didn't want to live in the shelters. I have given the homeless food. I have made blankets for homeless charieties. One of the churches here is a temporary shelter in the winter,

when I cleaned out my moms house, she had all kinds of samples of toiletries, I donated all of them, her clothes, blankets coats etc. I have also baked and dropped off cookies and cakes on nights I know they are going to be there. I don't know what the answer is, and I do understand your hopelessness. Beth Co-administrator Young <nathaninfortuna@...> wrote: I have seen this same homeless couple asking for money on a main

street of my town. I have also seen them i nthe grocery store. People tell me she is beaten by him and I have seen her with black eyes. To me giving them money is wrong but the other day I saw a homeless man in a wheel chee missing a leg with a sign saying he was hungry. People gave him money, food and all before I had a chance to give him some of my food I was getting. I don't know why there is no free housing availible when the cost of building buildings is so cheap and this country so rich. The thing however is people actually hate them and I have heard what they say concerning them. These are the narcisistic superiorists. Everytime I am in the car being driven and see them I wonder why they are homeless. So I am caught thinking why there is selfishness in such great quantities and or inaction collectively dispite unselfishness and compassion. Do people know the solution? Does

anyone want to share some thoughts concerning a possibile solution? Turning In Big BrotherMy First Authored BookOnline For Free..http://www.nathanyoung.net Never Miss an EmailStay connected with on your mobile. Get started!

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[Guest guest]

Maybe I should run for senator but that would just be in a fantacy..

> I have seen this same homeless couple asking for money

on a main street of my town. I have also seen them i nthe grocery

store. People tell me she is beaten by him and I have seen her with

black eyes. To me giving them money is wrong but the other day I saw

a homeless man in a wheel chee missing a leg with a sign saying he

was hungry.

>

> People gave him money, food and all before I had a chance to give

him some of my food I was getting. I don't know why there is no free

housing availible when the cost of building buildings is so cheap and

this country so rich. The thing however is people actually hate them

and I have heard what they say concerning them. These are the

narcisistic superiorists.

>

> Everytime I am in the car being driven and see them I wonder why

they are homeless. So I am caught thinking why there is selfishness

in such great quantities and or inaction collectively dispite

unselfishness and compassion.

>

> Do people know the solution? Does anyone want to share some

thoughts concerning a possibile solution?

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

> Turning In Big Brother

> My First Authored Book

> Online For Free..

> http://www.nathanyoung.net

> ---------------------------------

> Never Miss an Email

> Stay connected with on your mobile. Get started!

>

>

>

>

> ---------------------------------

> Want to start your own business? Learn how on Small Business.

>

[Guest guest]

" Do people know the solution? Does anyone want to share some thoughts

concerning a possibile solution? "

There is an easy solution to the homeless problem .

1) Make all people who are jailed on drug charges pay for their own

incarceration, and then divert the funds we pay for that incarceration

through our taxes to help the homeless.

It's not our fault that people use illegal drugs, and we as tax papers

should not have to pay for their incarceration.

2) Deport the 12 million illegal aliens in this country. Those people

take up jobs and tax dollars through benefits that they claim.

More people could find jobs, and our tax dollars spent on helping

these illegals couldbe spent on legal citizens who are homeless.

Many homeless people may be low functioning and may need help. They

should get it.

Tom

Administrator

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 2/1/2007 2:05:06 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, no_reply writes:

2) Deport the 12 million illegal aliens in this country. Those people take up jobs and tax dollars through benefits that they claim.More people could find jobs, and our tax dollars spent on helping these illegals couldbe spent on legal citizens who are homeless.Many homeless people may be low functioning and may need help. They should get it.TomAdministrator

You do have a point here about the illegals. It is known that they are being used to hold down wages at the lowest end of the spectrum. It is also known that the threat of reporting them or just firing them keeps them from complaining about wages and benefits. The result of this is that Americans in the lowest levels, mostly those who without a high school diploma, the young (meaning 18 to 25 or so), and African American males end up without jobs.

The minimum wages laws are ineffective and actually counterproductive. This is because many firms from large companies to small yardmen can easily hire illegals for less than the cost of minimum wage, plus the other taxes that go along with regular employees. Hiring illegals gives them a competitive advantage, albeit and illegal one. However, they are saving a lot of money and that allows the to out compete their competition. To survive, other firms must either do the same, cut wages or staff or something to stay alive.

The other major problem is foreign trade. The US and Europe both are allowing unfair practices to be used against us by our competition, especially China. Since the 1990's, the US has lost over 3 million manufacturing jobs and more continue to leave. Now even white collar jobs are fleeing. Why is this?

1. Taxes. We have the highest corporate taxes in the world at 35%. On top of that there are Social Security taxes (6% paid by the worker plus 6% paid by the employer), Medicaid taxes (about 5% split between employer and employee), Worker's Comp (another 1 or 2 percent). In addition, health insurance costs in many companies cost more than the raw materials they buy. China doesn't have any of this. They pay a fraction of what we do with none of the benefits. Competitive advantage China.

2. Environmental Regulations. The US and Europe plenty with more coming. China, practically none, not even Kyoto.

3. Unions. Unions have piled so much junk up on Ford and GM that those companies are piling up more debt than many Third World Countries. It won't be long before these legacy costs kill those companies. China doesn't have that problem.

4. Currency manipulation. China has artificially pegged the Yuan to about 1/3 of the dollar. It should be much higher than that. Again, this gives them an unfair competitive advantage.

Losing manufacturing jobs is a problem because they are high paying jobs. As such, they support many service industry jobs through the multiplier effect of money. Simply put: if the factory worker is making $20 an hour, that is a lot of money that they will spend in the local economy. They will buy gas, food, clothes, etc. That money supports those service industries, providing more jobs. All that commerce means more jobs in manufacturing and service to supply the demand.

If the factory closes and those workers have to take service jobs that now pay $10 an hour, then the supply of money is halved. There will be less spent in the economy, which will mean less demand for service jobs and less demand for manufacturing. This is another reason why manufacturers have gone overseas: demand hasn't been high enough to meet the costs of producing domestically compared to what they could make overseas. So, overseas they go where they make the product for far less money and ship it back to the US.

If we were protecting the manufacturing sector and still had those 3 million jobs, there would be more, higher paying service jobs available. Combined with welfare to work programs, which have proven to work well, that would mean more people off the dole and into jobs. However, like so many other major issues, it is being ignored by politicians of both parties.

Would this help the homeless? Probably. There would be more opportunity for jobs they might want and also more money flowing in to charities and such to help them out. I agree with Heph that just giving them money is counterproductive. More revenues and charity would mean more jobs like the weeding program he mentioned. It might even mean a more palatable halfway house sort of thing to give the homeless an address to get a job and more employment and financial counselors for them as well.

Illegals would still be a problem, but addressing the problems I mentioned, bringing back manufacturing and white collar jobs would be a big help.

[Guest guest]

" Do people know the solution? Does anyone want to share some thoughts

concerning a possibile solution? "

There is an easy solution to the homeless problem .

1) Make all people who are jailed on drug charges pay for their own

incarceration, and then divert the funds we pay for that incarceration

through our taxes to help the homeless.

It's not our fault that people use illegal drugs, and we as tax papers

should not have to pay for their incarceration.

" It's not their fault drugs are addictive and are made in the first

place. Nor is it their fualt it's illegal in the first place, thus

they cannot be expected to pay for the removal of their freedoms. "

2) Deport the 12 million illegal aliens in this country. Those people

take up jobs and tax dollars through benefits that they claim.

More people could find jobs, and our tax dollars spent on helping

these illegals couldbe spent on legal citizens who are homeless.

Many homeless people may be low functioning and may need help. They

should get it.

" illegal folks are human beings and part of the human family. Their

desperate attempts at a better life should not be punished. They are

not to blaim for supply and demand so perhaps the employers should

pay larger fines for their selfishness not to pay americans fair

wages and it not blaimed on illegals simply desiring to eat like the

homeless folks. It's all about getting richer but equally economic

surivival as one company doing it has an advantage over the other. "

Tom

" With regard to tax payers, I don't think housing, feeding and

clothing the homeless will cost any more tax money. "

>

> " Do people know the solution? Does anyone want to share some

thoughts

> concerning a possibile solution? "

>

> There is an easy solution to the homeless problem .

>

> 1) Make all people who are jailed on drug charges pay for their own

> incarceration, and then divert the funds we pay for that

incarceration

> through our taxes to help the homeless.

>

> It's not our fault that people use illegal drugs, and we as tax

papers

> should not have to pay for their incarceration.

>

> 2) Deport the 12 million illegal aliens in this country. Those

people

> take up jobs and tax dollars through benefits that they claim.

>

> More people could find jobs, and our tax dollars spent on helping

> these illegals couldbe spent on legal citizens who are homeless.

>

> Many homeless people may be low functioning and may need help. They

> should get it.

>

> Tom

> Administrator

>

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 2/1/2007 9:13:03 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, no_reply writes:

But sappy people who believed that the laws against absolute power were too strict repealed the laws. Then Hitler came to power and a world war took places which killed over 42 million people.

Hitler came to power because there were people who thought that they could control him. What they underestimated though was his ability to rabble rouse. He got the public behind him with his emotional and rousing speeches and that was that. By the time the masses figured out what they had done, it was too late to oppose him.

It was kind of like the French Revolution. A few masterful rabble rousers like Robespierre (sp.), Murat, and other turned the masses of Paris into bloodthirsty mobs that in the end murdered close to 200,000 of their fellow Frenchmen. Murat lay the groundwork with a "newspaper" that preached hatred and murder in a way the drove the crowds mad. Robespierre set up the government that conducted a series of Terrors, each more savage and bloody than the one before. This is not even county the deaths causes by Napoleon.

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 2/1/2007 9:13:03 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, no_reply writes:

But sappy people who believed that the laws against absolute power were too strict repealed the laws. Then Hitler came to power and a world war took places which killed over 42 million people.

Hitler came to power because there were people who thought that they could control him. What they underestimated though was his ability to rabble rouse. He got the public behind him with his emotional and rousing speeches and that was that. By the time the masses figured out what they had done, it was too late to oppose him.

It was kind of like the French Revolution. A few masterful rabble rousers like Robespierre (sp.), Murat, and other turned the masses of Paris into bloodthirsty mobs that in the end murdered close to 200,000 of their fellow Frenchmen. Murat lay the groundwork with a "newspaper" that preached hatred and murder in a way the drove the crowds mad. Robespierre set up the government that conducted a series of Terrors, each more savage and bloody than the one before. This is not even county the deaths causes by Napoleon.

[Guest guest]

wrote: " ... <snip> ... I don't know why there is no free

housing available when the cost of building buildings is so cheap

and this country so rich ... <snip> ... "

People rarely appreciate what they do not have to work to get

therefore free housing is not the answer. Subsidized housing is a

minimally better answer.

wrote: " ... <snip> ... The thing however is people actually

hate them and I have heard what they say concerning them. These are

the narcisistic superiorists ... <snip> ... "

That is a judgment on your part, ... the very thing you have

accused Tom of doing lately. You do not know if these people are

hating the homeless couple you mentioned and you do not know what

drives them to say what they say if you know first hand what they

are saying. It is conjecture and hear-say on your part if you do

not have this first hand knowledge from their lips to your ears.

Also, people fear what they do not know or what they do not

understand and this is likely the case here.

Raven

Co-Administrator

[Guest guest]

RE "Homeless People, What is the Solution?" The possible reasons for the explosion in numbers of autism cases are complex and highly controversial. One argument for there being more cases now is the apparent absence of adults with autistic traits. "Homelessness" is subject to some definitional issues, but I've been an outdoors homeless person (no time in shelters etcetera) for over ten years and a homeless person living in shelters on and off for about another year. And no, I don't use drugs. In fact I hate them. Homeless people are much, much more diverse than almost everybody thinks. Some of the larger categories include people who've had serious long term health problems with no medical insurance (about half of bankruptcies in USA are due to that); Another significant category are people who because of stupid things they did in their youths

have been caught up in the criminal-"justice" system such that when they get out in their 30s or 40s have little hope of ever having a decent job and so forth. Many, nearly all?, of those turn to drugs and alcohol out of despair and hopelessness; A third significant category are the outright mentally ill. Though I myself am diagnosed as "Autism Spectrum Disorder- NOS" so far it has resulted in zero aid. Besides, even though my history indicates massive dysfunctionality I consider myself far more functional than the many schizophrenics and bipolar individuals living on the streets; A fourth category, which I think is no where near as large as administrators and others seem to think, are drug and alcohol abusers. There is also a very serious issue (I think) about cause and effect- Being homeless s--ks so bad sometimes even I wish I were blotto'ed so I wouldn't have to feel the way I do almost all the time. Each of those four categories make up I

think roughly the same number of people. I included the depressives with the mentally ill. Also, there are those who are going through an extreme period of grief in their life- sometimes involving a death in the family or a divorce. (For some one truly in love, a divorce is a thoroughly life-shattering event. There are quite a few men I've met like that.) I think of these emotionally traumatized individuals as mostly being in the alcoholic and drug category, but perhaps they would be better placed in the mentally ill category. Ah yes, there is another category but it's quite a bit smaller (half?, a quarter?) than the big four or so I've already listed - immigrants who can barely speak english who've come up here and are either stranded or haven't yet found work. About giving money to the homeless. I'm sorry...people might be upset about this... but I have never, not even once, seen any homeless person asking for

money on the street or saying that is what they do, who didn't have serious drug problems. My guess is that 99% of the people asking strangers for money turn right around and spend the money on drugs. The title of this thread includes "what is the solution?" Based on my experiences giving money to those who are asking for it is counterproductive. What can people do personally? Not much. I've always really admired the people who just cook up a lot of food and take it down to the park and hand/dish it out. I think that's something churches should do a lot of, but it seems mostly it's small groups of individuals. Also, some places like here in New Mexico, there are so many agencies giving out free meals that it isn't really an issue here. But that isn't the case in most places. Some people give out Mac gift cards. That's good, but well,

often the biggest problem with being homeless is nearly all the food that is cheap and available is, if you eat it for a very long period, going to rot your body from the inside out. Still, it's a whole lot better than nothing! I've had a saying for a long time- "calories are cheap, but nutrition dear". Most homeless people are thin, but the ones you see who are fat, if it isnt' diabetes or back injuries or the like, it's sometimes because they're eating almost nothing but junk food and at shelters that are serving carb-loading type diets. Hmm... Maybe even someone should just go around giving out bottles of vitamins! What should the government be doing? There is a program here in New Mexico called War on Weeds where they hire people, mostly homeless, to work up to 11 days (for weird tax-reporting reasons or something) at 50$ a day to walk along the freeways and streets picking up trash and digging up

weeds and the like. Every month there are far, far more people trying to get into the program than there are funds for the program. (People showed up at 6:30 AM, waited in the winter cold for 90 minutes, and only 14 of about 60 people got in. I didn't, but I can barely walk anyway- hence "Clubfoot".) Government as an "employer of last resort" is an old political issue. And in principle, in general, it's something to avoid I think. But if you look at specific situations, "on the margin", the War on Weeds program would be doing a whole lot of good without cutting into private enterprise and so forth if they doubled the size of the program. (They could expand it to all sorts of things including chopping up the ice recently that blocked the I-40 freeway for days down here.) Another thing is the housing- I heard from a world traveller (and homeless person) recently that governments around the world rarely hassle people living outdoors

in tents or otherwise. (He gave India and a number of other countries as examples- don't remember offhand) It's the USA that is particularly cruel in this regard. Oh yeah, I started by writing about the explosion in autism diagnoses. Well, one of the arguments has been there must be an actual explosion or else where would all the adults be who had autism spectrum disorders as kids? Well, I'm one of them! And I look around me at other homeless people and I see a lot of autistic traits, a lot of blind unawareness of social rules or what is going on around them socially- misunderstanding what people in authority are thinking, and on and on. Everyday...all the time. I keep thinking of going over to the local university and finding someone who works with autistics and telling them they should run some of the tests like Baron-Cohen's Autism Quotient survey on a few hundred homeless people. They might be amazed

at what they find. Homeless Heph. beth sullivan <dksunglsses@...> wrote: Way back when we were dating and I were mistaken by some of the homeless people in Upper Darby. We were waiting in 69th street for a ride and a man and woman came up and talked to us, they were telling us about a shelter, we ended up talking to 7 or 8 people that were waiting. They were all very nice people. It

was an opportunity for me to ask some questions also. So I took the opportunity, from what I can remember the most common story was that they were out of luck, for some reason or another lost jobs ect, and either didn't have family to help them or didn't want to depend upon people to help them. Most of them said that the help came at too high a cost. Without a telephone number or an address they couldn't get a job, but they didn't want to live in the shelters. I have given the homeless food. I have made blankets for homeless charieties. One of the churches here is a temporary shelter in the winter, when I cleaned out my moms house, she had all kinds of samples of toiletries, I donated all of them, her clothes, blankets coats etc. I have also baked and dropped off cookies and cakes on nights I know they are going to be there. I don't know what the answer is, and I do understand your hopelessness.

Beth Co-administrator Young <nathaninfortuna > wrote: I have seen this same homeless couple asking for money on a main street of my town. I have also seen them i nthe grocery store. People tell me she is beaten by him and I have seen her with black eyes. To me giving them money is wrong but the other day I saw a homeless man in a wheel chee missing a leg with a sign saying he was hungry. People gave him money, food and all before I had a chance to give him some of my food I was getting. I don't know why there is no free housing availible when the cost of building buildings is so cheap and this country so rich. The thing however is people actually hate them and I have heard what they say concerning them. These are the narcisistic

superiorists. Everytime I am in the car being driven and see them I wonder why they are homeless. So I am caught thinking why there is selfishness in such great quantities and or inaction collectively dispite unselfishness and compassion. Do people know the solution? Does anyone want to share some thoughts concerning a possibile solution? Turning In Big BrotherMy First Authored BookOnline For Free..http://www.nathanyoung.net Never Miss an EmailStay connected with on your mobile. Get started! Want to start your own business? Learn how on Small Business. Hephaestus

Clubfoothttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hephaestushttp://www.pantheon.org/articles/h/hephaestus.htmlhttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kabeiroi

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[Guest guest]

>

> Maybe I should run for senator but that would just be in a fantacy.

Actually, , that would be interesting and it could turn out very

well.

Raven

Co-Administrator

[Guest guest]

Tom suggested: " ... <snip> ... Make all people who are jailed on

drug charges pay for their own incarceration, and then divert the

funds we pay for that incarceration through our taxes to help the

homeless. "

answered: " ... <snip> ... It's not their fault drugs are

addictive and are made in the first place. Nor is it their fualt

it's illegal in the first place, thus they cannot be expected to pay

for the removal of their freedoms. "

OK, it's time for some accountability here. It may not be their

fault that drugs are addictive, but it is their fault that they

choose to break the law and succumb to addiction. And it may not be

their faul that drugs are illegal in the first place, but it is

their fault that they feel they are above the law and therefore

entitled to break the law.

I am not saying that it is good to victimize victims but it is

important that victims also shoulder some of the responsibility for

their situation.

Raven

Co-Administrator

[Guest guest]

Regarding the homeless I have yet to find a more clear and intelligent account than the journalistic book by Orwell "Down and Out in Paris and London" written in the 1930s. Especially where toward the last quarter or so of the book he starts expressing his thoughts on the subject rather than just relating a narrative of his experiences. With your indulgences I have copied a few paragraphs from the Gutenberg project... (Very large html page) http://gutenberg.net.au/ebooks01/0100171.txt XXXVII want to set down some general remarks about tramps. When one comesto think of it, tramps are a queer product and worth thinking over. It isqueer that a tribe of men, tens of thousands in number, should be marchingup and down England like so many

Wandering Jews. But though the caseobviously wants considering, one cannot even start to consider it until onehas got rid of certain prejudices. These prejudices are rooted in the ideathat every tramp, IPSO FACTO, is a blackguard. In childhood we have beentaught that tramps are blackguards, and consequently there exists in ourminds a sort of ideal or typical tramp--a repulsive, rather dangerouscreature, who would die rather than work or wash, and wants nothing but tobeg, drink, and rob hen-houses. This tramp-monster is no truer to life thanthe sinister Chinaman of the magazine stories, but he is very hard to getrid of. The very word 'tramp' evokes his image. And the belief in himobscures the real questions of vagrancy.To take a fundamental question about vagrancy: Why do tramps exist atall? It is a curious thing, but very few people know what makes a tramptake to the road. And, because of the belief in the

tramp-monster, the mostfantastic reasons are suggested. It is said, for instance, that trampstramp to avoid work, to beg more easily, to seek opportunities for crime,even--least probable of reasons--because they like tramping. I haveeven read in a book of criminology that the tramp is an atavism, athrow-back to the nomadic stage of humanity. And meanwhile the quiteobvious cause of vagrancy is staring one in the face. Of course a tramp isnot a nomadic atavism--one might as well say that a commercial travelleris an atavism. A tramp tramps, not because he likes it, but for the samereason as a car keeps to the left; because there happens to be a lawcompelling him to do so. A destitute man, if he is not supported by theparish, can only get relief at the casual wards, and as each casual wardwill only admit him for one night, he is automatically kept moving. He is avagrant because, in the state of the law, it is that or starve.

But peoplehave been brought up to believe in the tramp-monster, and so they prefer tothink that there must be some more or less villainous motive for tramping.As a matter of fact, very little of the tramp-monster will surviveinquiry. Take the generally accepted idea that tramps are dangerouscharacters. Quite apart from experience, one can say A PRIORI that very fewtramps are dangerous, because if they were dangerous they would be treatedaccordingly. A casual ward will often admit a hundred tramps in one night,and these are handled by a staff of at most three porters. A hundredruffians could not be controlled by three unarmed men. Indeed, when onesees how tramps let themselves be bullied by the workhouse officials, it isobvious that they are the most docile, broken-spirited creaturesimaginable. Or take the idea that all tramps are drunkards--an idearidiculous on the face of it. No doubt many tramps would drink if they

gotthe chance, but in the nature of things they cannot get the chance. At thismoment a pale watery stuff called beer is sevenpence a pint in England. Tobe drunk on it would cost at least half a crown, and a man who can commandhalf a crown at all often is not a tramp. The idea that tramps are impudentsocial parasites ('sturdy beggars') is not absolutely unfounded, but it isonly true in a few per cent of the cases. Deliberate, cynical parasitism,such as one reads of in Jack London's books on American tramping, is not inthe English character. The English are a conscience-ridden race, with astrong sense of the sinfulness of poverty. One cannot imagine the averageEnglishman deliberately turning parasite, and this national character doesnot necessarily change because a man is thrown out of work. Indeed, if oneremembers that a tramp is only an Englishman out of work, forced by law tolive as a vagabond, then the tramp-monster

vanishes. I am not saying, ofcourse, that most tramps are ideal characters; I am only saying that theyare ordinary human beings, and that if they are worse than other people itis the result and not the cause of their way of life. It follows that the 'Serve them damned well right' attitude that isnormally taken towards tramps is no fairer than it would be towardscripples or invalids. When one has realized that, one begins to put oneselfin a tramp's place and understand what his life is like. It is anextraordinarily futile, acutely unpleasant life. I have described thecasual ward--the routine of a tramp's day--but there are three especialevils that need insisting upon. The first is hunger, which is the almostgeneral fate of tramps. The casual ward gives them a ration which isprobably not even meant to be sufficient, and anything beyond this must begot by begging--that is, by breaking the law. The result is

that nearlyevery tramp is rotted by malnutrition; for proof of which one need onlylook at the men lining up outside any casual ward. The second great evil ofa tramp's life--it seems much smaller at first sight, but it is a goodsecond--is that he is entirely cut off from contact with women. Thispoint needs elaborating.Tramps are cut off from women, in the first place, because there arevery few women at their level of society. One might imagine that amongdestitute people the sexes would be as equally balanced as elsewhere. Butit is not so; in fact, one can almost say that below a certain levelsociety is entirely male. The following figures, published by the L.C.C.from a night census taken on February 13th, 1931, will show the relativenumbers of destitute men and destitute women: (skip) It will be seen from these figures that at the charity level menoutnumber women by

something like ten to one. The cause is presumably thatunemployment affects women less than men; also that any presentable womancan, in the last resort, attach herself to some man. The result, for atramp, is that he is condemned to perpetual celibacy. For of course it goeswithout saying that if a tramp finds no women at his own level, those above--even a very little above--are as far out of his reach as the moon. Thereasons are not worth discussing, but there is no doubt that women never,or hardly ever, condescend to men who are much poorer than themselves. Atramp, therefore, is a celibate from the moment when he takes to the road.He is absolutely without hope of getting a wife, a mistress, or any kind ofwoman except--very rarely, when he can raise a few shillings--aprostitute. (me again) I'll leave it there except to add that love makes the world go around and among homeless

men the absence of any hope of geniune female companionship over time contributes powerfully to a sense of despair and hopelessness. (Speaking of heterosexual men of course.) Hephaestus Clubfoot <lemnosforge@...> wrote: RE "Homeless People, What is the Solution?" The possible reasons for the explosion in numbers of autism cases are complex and highly

controversial. One argument for there being more cases now is the apparent absence of adults with autistic traits. "Homelessness" is subject to some definitional issues, but I've been an outdoors homeless person (no time in shelters etcetera) for over ten years and a homeless person living in shelters on and off for about another year. And no, I don't use drugs. In fact I hate them. Homeless people are much, much more diverse than almost everybody thinks. Some of the larger categories include people who've had serious long term health problems with no medical insurance (about half of bankruptcies in USA are due to that); Another significant category are people who because of stupid things they did in their youths have been caught up in the criminal-"justice" system such that when they get out in their 30s or 40s have little hope of ever having a decent job and so forth. Many, nearly all?, of those turn to drugs and alcohol out

of despair and hopelessness; A third significant category are the outright mentally ill. Though I myself am diagnosed as "Autism Spectrum Disorder- NOS" so far it has resulted in zero aid. Besides, even though my history indicates massive dysfunctionality I consider myself far more functional than the many schizophrenics and bipolar individuals living on the streets; A fourth category, which I think is no where near as large as administrators and others seem to think, are drug and alcohol abusers. There is also a very serious issue (I think) about cause and effect- Being homeless s--ks so bad sometimes even I wish I were blotto'ed so I wouldn't have to feel the way I do almost all the time. Each of those four categories make up I think roughly the same number of people. I included the depressives with the mentally ill. Also, there are those who are going through an extreme period of grief in their life- sometimes involving a death in the family or a divorce. (For some one

truly in love, a divorce is a thoroughly life-shattering event. There are quite a few men I've met like that.) I think of these emotionally traumatized individuals as mostly being in the alcoholic and drug category, but perhaps they would be better placed in the mentally ill category. Ah yes, there is another category but it's quite a bit smaller (half?, a quarter?) than the big four or so I've already listed - immigrants who can barely speak english who've come up here and are either stranded or haven't yet found work. About giving money to the homeless. I'm sorry...people might be upset about this... but I have never, not even once, seen any homeless person asking for money on the street or saying that is what they do, who didn't have serious drug problems. My guess is that 99% of the people asking strangers for money turn right around and spend the money on drugs. The title of this thread includes "what is the solution?" Based on my experiences giving money to those who are asking for it is counterproductive. What can people do personally? Not much. I've always really admired the people who just cook up a lot of food and take it down to the park and hand/dish it out. I think that's something churches should do a lot of, but it seems mostly it's small groups of individuals. Also, some places like here in New Mexico, there are so many agencies giving out free meals that it isn't really an issue here. But that isn't the case in most places. Some people give out Mac gift cards. That's good, but well, often the biggest problem with being homeless is nearly all the food that is cheap and available is, if you eat it for a very long period, going to rot your body from the inside out. Still, it's a whole lot better than nothing! I've

had a saying for a long time- "calories are cheap, but nutrition dear". Most homeless people are thin, but the ones you see who are fat, if it isnt' diabetes or back injuries or the like, it's sometimes because they're eating almost nothing but junk food and at shelters that are serving carb-loading type diets. Hmm... Maybe even someone should just go around giving out bottles of vitamins! What should the government be doing? There is a program here in New Mexico called War on Weeds where they hire people, mostly homeless, to work up to 11 days (for weird tax-reporting reasons or something) at 50$ a day to walk along the freeways and streets picking up trash and digging up weeds and the like. Every month there are far, far more people trying to get into the program than there are funds for the program. (People showed up at 6:30 AM, waited in the winter cold for 90 minutes, and only 14 of about 60 people got in.

I didn't, but I can barely walk anyway- hence "Clubfoot".) Government as an "employer of last resort" is an old political issue. And in principle, in general, it's something to avoid I think. But if you look at specific situations, "on the margin", the War on Weeds program would be doing a whole lot of good without cutting into private enterprise and so forth if they doubled the size of the program. (They could expand it to all sorts of things including chopping up the ice recently that blocked the I-40 freeway for days down here.) Another thing is the housing- I heard from a world traveller (and homeless person) recently that governments around the world rarely hassle people living outdoors in tents or otherwise. (He gave India and a number of other countries as examples- don't remember offhand) It's the USA that is particularly cruel in this regard. Oh yeah, I started

by writing about the explosion in autism diagnoses. Well, one of the arguments has been there must be an actual explosion or else where would all the adults be who had autism spectrum disorders as kids? Well, I'm one of them! And I look around me at other homeless people and I see a lot of autistic traits, a lot of blind unawareness of social rules or what is going on around them socially- misunderstanding what people in authority are thinking, and on and on. Everyday...all the time. I keep thinking of going over to the local university and finding someone who works with autistics and telling them they should run some of the tests like Baron-Cohen's Autism Quotient survey on a few hundred homeless people. They might be amazed at what they find. Homeless Heph. beth sullivan <dksunglsses > wrote: Way back when we were dating and I were mistaken by some of the homeless people in Upper Darby. We were waiting in 69th street for a ride and a man and woman came up and talked to us, they were telling us about a shelter, we ended up talking to 7 or 8 people that were waiting. They were all very nice people. It was an opportunity for me to ask some questions also. So I took the opportunity, from what I can remember the most common story was that they were out of luck, for some reason or another lost jobs ect, and either didn't have family to help them or didn't want to depend upon people to help them. Most of them said that the help came at too high a cost. Without a telephone number or an address they couldn't get a job, but they didn't want to live in the shelters. I have given the homeless food. I have made

blankets for homeless charieties. One of the churches here is a temporary shelter in the winter, when I cleaned out my moms house, she had all kinds of samples of toiletries, I donated all of them, her clothes, blankets coats etc. I have also baked and dropped off cookies and cakes on nights I know they are going to be there. I don't know what the answer is, and I do understand your hopelessness. Beth Co-administrator Young <nathaninfortuna > wrote: I have seen this same homeless couple asking for money on a main street of my town. I have also seen them i nthe grocery store. People tell me she is beaten by him and I have seen her with black eyes. To me giving them money is wrong but the other day I saw a homeless

man in a wheel chee missing a leg with a sign saying he was hungry. People gave him money, food and all before I had a chance to give him some of my food I was getting. I don't know why there is no free housing availible when the cost of building buildings is so cheap and this country so rich. The thing however is people actually hate them and I have heard what they say concerning them. These are the narcisistic superiorists. Everytime I am in the car being driven and see them I wonder why they are homeless. So I am caught thinking why there is selfishness in such great quantities and or inaction collectively dispite unselfishness and compassion. Do people know the solution? Does anyone want to share some thoughts concerning a possibile solution? Turning In Big BrotherMy

First Authored BookOnline For Free..http://www.nathanyoung.net Never Miss an EmailStay connected with on your mobile. Get started! Want to start your own business? Learn how on Small Business. Hephaestus Clubfoothttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hephaestushttp://www.pantheon.org/articles/h/hephaestus.htmlhttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kabeiroi It's here! Your new message!Get new email alerts with the

free Toolbar. Hephaestus Clubfoothttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hephaestushttp://www.pantheon.org/articles/h/hephaestus.htmlhttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kabeiroi

Don't pick lemons.

See all the new 2007 cars at Autos.

[Guest guest]

I didn't accuse Tom of anything. I understand you and Tom are going

out or something, I think Tom can stand up for himself.

If you do not see that there is a hate against the homeless then that

is blindness on your part. I've heard them called lazy and all sorts

of disgraceful ignorant remarks by those that do.

People are very sick and homeless, some of served this country while

I believe they are forgotten to easy. Indeed there is a selfishness

and stereotypes that exist.

" ... <snip> ... The thing however is people

actually

> hate them and I have heard what they say concerning them. These are

> the narcisistic superiorists ... <snip> ... "

>

> That is a judgment on your part, ... the very thing you have

> accused Tom of doing lately. You do not know if these people are

> hating the homeless couple you mentioned and you do not know what

> drives them to say what they say if you know first hand what they

> are saying. It is conjecture and hear-say on your part if you do

> not have this first hand knowledge from their lips to your ears.

>

> Also, people fear what they do not know or what they do not

> understand and this is likely the case here.

>

> Raven

> Co-Administrator

>

[Guest guest]

My dad told me once that some are offended by being called homeless.

I think that's idiotic.

> I have seen this same homeless couple asking for money on a

main street of my town. I have also seen them i nthe grocery store.

People tell me she is beaten by him and I have seen her with black

eyes. To me giving them money is wrong but the other day I saw a

homeless man in a wheel chee missing a leg with a sign saying he was

hungry.

>

> People gave him money, food and all before I had a chance to give

him some of my food I was getting. I don't know why there is no free

housing availible when the cost of building buildings is so cheap and

this country so rich. The thing however is people actually hate them

and I have heard what they say concerning them. These are the

narcisistic superiorists.

>

> Everytime I am in the car being driven and see them I wonder why

they are homeless. So I am caught thinking why there is selfishness

in such great quantities and or inaction collectively dispite

unselfishness and compassion.

>

> Do people know the solution? Does anyone want to share some

thoughts concerning a possibile solution?

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

> Turning In Big Brother

> My First Authored Book

> Online For Free..

> http://www.nathanyoung.net

> ---------------------------------

> Never Miss an Email

> Stay connected with on your mobile. Get started!

>

>

>

>

>

> ---------------------------------

> Want to start your own business? Learn how on Small

Business.

>

>

>

>

> Hephaestus Clubfoot

>

> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hephaestus

> http://www.pantheon.org/articles/h/hephaestus.html

> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kabeiroi

>

> ---------------------------------

> It's here! Your new message!

> Get new email alerts with the free Toolbar.

>

[Guest guest]

Not until I am at least 60, but by then I should have a college degree

and perhaps a few minor degrees.

> >

> > Maybe I should run for senator but that would just be in a fantacy.

>

> Actually, , that would be interesting and it could turn out

very

> well.

>

> Raven

> Co-Administrator

>

[Guest guest]

People who are jailed for drugs are quite often broke or close to being broke to begin with. With crack in particular, people wind up binging themselves into poverty quite quickly. With meth, well it's usually the less affluent sort of person to begin with who takes up doing meth instead of crack. Sometimes even the reason they get caught is because they've spent all their money and so they're out doing drugs in the open rather than the back rooms of some expensive nightclub or in a regular house (not a crack house). I'm sympathetic to the idea of charging perpetrators of crimes for the effects of their crimes on the public, but in the case of drugs there are issues of who is directly harmed (by that particular perpetrator's particular acts) and issues surrounding wether it will bring in much money anway... And then there's the case here in New Mexico recently where a major judge (state

supreme court?) was caught red-handed doing crack and got off with minimal probation- The people who do have loads of money and-or influence generally have the best lawyers. The amusing-disgusting thing in his case is he keeps acting and talking in public as if he did nothing wrong- that he shouldn't even have to have probation- and that he should be able to have his old job back. But recently there was a governmental decision (or the Bar?) to keep him banned for life. Heph ravenmagic2003 <ravenmagic2003@...> wrote: Tom suggested: " ... <snip> ... Make all people who are jailed on drug charges pay for their own incarceration, and then divert the funds we pay for that incarceration through our taxes to help the homeless." answered: "... <snip> ... It's not their fault drugs are addictive and are made in the first place. Nor is it their fualt it's illegal in the first place, thus they cannot be expected to pay for the removal of their freedoms."OK, it's time for some accountability here. It may not be their fault that drugs are addictive, but it is their fault that they choose to break the law and succumb to addiction. And it may not be their faul that drugs are illegal in the first place, but it is their fault that they feel they are above the law and therefore entitled to break the law.I

am not saying that it is good to victimize victims but it is important that victims also shoulder some of the responsibility for their situation.RavenCo-AdministratorHephaestus Clubfoothttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hephaestushttp://www.pantheon.org/articles/h/hephaestus.htmlhttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kabeiroi

Never miss an email again! Toolbar alerts you the instant new Mail arrives. Check it out.

[Guest guest]

Once someone makes a choice, whether deluted by an illness or even in

commition of the " false crime opposing fundmental liberties " . It can

be argued that anyone taking drugs or at least some are doing so

becuase they are ill. There is no personal liability to what the

every essence of free will allows. The laws though intending to be

helpfull are indeed violations of liberties themselves. Especially in

cases where those who morally oppose usages remove the liberties

becuase of their beliefs. Usage itself is counter-productive and

harmfull but to be imprisioned for it is equally wrong when they

should be treated instead of punished for freedoms.

>

> Tom suggested: " ... <snip> ... Make all people who are jailed on

> drug charges pay for their own incarceration, and then divert the

> funds we pay for that incarceration through our taxes to help the

> homeless. "

>

> answered: " ... <snip> ... It's not their fault drugs are

> addictive and are made in the first place. Nor is it their fualt

> it's illegal in the first place, thus they cannot be expected to

pay

> for the removal of their freedoms. "

>

> OK, it's time for some accountability here. It may not be their

> fault that drugs are addictive, but it is their fault that they

> choose to break the law and succumb to addiction. And it may not

be

> their faul that drugs are illegal in the first place, but it is

> their fault that they feel they are above the law and therefore

> entitled to break the law.

>

> I am not saying that it is good to victimize victims but it is

> important that victims also shoulder some of the responsibility for

> their situation.

>

> Raven

> Co-Administrator

>

[Guest guest]

One thing that pisses me off is I am a very dedicated, efficient,

honest and hard worker. I do not have a diploma because I just could

no longer tolerate it there. Yet I can't write much anyways because

of injury. I'll have a college degree before the cold day in hell I

appease getting a silly high school diploma.

I'll never tolerate full mainstream and would likely have a diploma

now if I was removed by the special education department from the

mainstream. Oh well, doesn't matter because once I have at least my

AA they will overlook there being no diploma.

I used to be embarrassed as I've accomplished 4.0's before with

intense dedication in a college prep school. High school in public

school was impossible despite being easier. I could always take the

California high school proficiency exam. I might do that they have

tests every 3 quarters and the practice books are available.

As for the illegal aliens, it is neither their fualt nor obligation

to succeed what little they make to an American worker for more. They

are simply trying to survive so I hope no one here hates them. It

however is an economic problem as well for them a minimal standard of

pay problem in human rights by Americano standards..

>

>

> In a message dated 2/1/2007 2:05:06 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,

> no_reply writes:

>

> 2) Deport the 12 million illegal aliens in this country. Those

people

> take up jobs and tax dollars through benefits that they claim.

>

> More people could find jobs, and our tax dollars spent on helping

> these illegals couldbe spent on legal citizens who are homeless.

>

> Many homeless people may be low functioning and may need help.

They

> should get it.

>

> Tom

> Administrator

>

>

>

> You do have a point here about the illegals. It is known that they

are being

> used to hold down wages at the lowest end of the spectrum. It is

also known

> that the threat of reporting them or just firing them keeps them

from

> complaining about wages and benefits. The result of this is that

Americans in the

> lowest levels, mostly those who without a high school diploma, the

young

> (meaning 18 to 25 or so), and African American males end up without

jobs.

>

> The minimum wages laws are ineffective and actually

counterproductive. This

> is because many firms from large companies to small yardmen can

easily hire

> illegals for less than the cost of minimum wage, plus the other

taxes that go

> along with regular employees. Hiring illegals gives them a

competitive

> advantage, albeit and illegal one. However, they are saving a lot

of money and that

> allows the to out compete their competition. To survive, other

firms must

> either do the same, cut wages or staff or something to stay alive.

>

> The other major problem is foreign trade. The US and Europe both

are

> allowing unfair practices to be used against us by our competition,

especially

> China. Since the 1990's, the US has lost over 3 million

manufacturing jobs and

> more continue to leave. Now even white collar jobs are fleeing. Why

is this?

>

> 1. Taxes. We have the highest corporate taxes in the world at 35%.

On top of

> that there are Social Security taxes (6% paid by the worker plus 6%

paid by

> the employer), Medicaid taxes (about 5% split between employer and

employee),

> Worker's Comp (another 1 or 2 percent). In addition, health

insurance costs

> in many companies cost more than the raw materials they buy. China

doesn't

> have any of this. They pay a fraction of what we do with none of

the benefits.

> Competitive advantage China.

>

> 2. Environmental Regulations. The US and Europe plenty with more

coming.

> China, practically none, not even Kyoto.

>

> 3. Unions. Unions have piled so much junk up on Ford and GM that

those

> companies are piling up more debt than many Third World Countries.

It won't be

> long before these legacy costs kill those companies. China doesn't

have that

> problem.

>

> 4. Currency manipulation. China has artificially pegged the Yuan to

about

> 1/3 of the dollar. It should be much higher than that. Again, this

gives them an

> unfair competitive advantage.

>

> Losing manufacturing jobs is a problem because they are high paying

jobs. As

> such, they support many service industry jobs through the

multiplier effect

> of money. Simply put: if the factory worker is making $20 an hour,

that is a

> lot of money that they will spend in the local economy. They will

buy gas,

> food, clothes, etc. That money supports those service industries,

providing more

> jobs. All that commerce means more jobs in manufacturing and

service to

> supply the demand.

>

> If the factory closes and those workers have to take service jobs

that now

> pay $10 an hour, then the supply of money is halved. There will be

less spent

> in the economy, which will mean less demand for service jobs and

less demand

> for manufacturing. This is another reason why manufacturers have

gone

> overseas: demand hasn't been high enough to meet the costs of

producing domestically

> compared to what they could make overseas. So, overseas they go

where they

> make the product for far less money and ship it back to the US.

>

> If we were protecting the manufacturing sector and still had those

3 million

> jobs, there would be more, higher paying service jobs available.

Combined

> with welfare to work programs, which have proven to work well,

that would mean

> more people off the dole and into jobs. However, like so many

other major

> issues, it is being ignored by politicians of both parties.

>

> Would this help the homeless? Probably. There would be more

opportunity for

> jobs they might want and also more money flowing in to charities

and such to

> help them out. I agree with Heph that just giving them money is

> counterproductive. More revenues and charity would mean more jobs

like the weeding program

> he mentioned. It might even mean a more palatable halfway house

sort of

> thing to give the homeless an address to get a job and more

employment and

> financial counselors for them as well.

>

> Illegals would still be a problem, but addressing the problems I

mentioned,

> bringing back manufacturing and white collar jobs would be a big

help.

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

wrote: " I didn't accuse Tom of anything. I understand you

and Tom are going out or something, I think Tom can stand up for

himself. "

, on more than one occasion you have accuse Tom of being

judgmental towards certain groups (i.e. NTs v Aspies, etc.). It's

in the archives.

Also, I thought that anyone could answer anyone else's posts in this

forum as long as the responses were respectful. My response to your

post was respectful. Throwing my personal relationship with Tom in

my face as a way to diminish my comments is not only uncalled for

but inappropriate. To lower yourself to this sort of an attack is

no better than those who do not have AS using AS as a weapon against

Aspies in order to diminish who they are.

Furthermore, I wasn't standing up for Tom. I was using the

situation between you and Tom as a way of pointing out that we all

make judgments about people so pointing a finger at another when you

are doing the same thing is not a good choice.

wrote: " ... <snip> ... If you do not see that there is a

hate against the homeless then that is blindness on your part. I've

heard them called lazy and all sorts of disgraceful ignorant remarks

by those that do. "

Hate is a strong word. Fear is most likely a more accurate word for

what you have heard and overheard. And in some cases, , some

homeless people ARE in fact lazy.

wrote: " ... <snip> ... People are very sick and homeless,

some of served this country while I believe they are forgotten to

easy. Indeed there is a selfishness and stereotypes that exist. "

Yes there are people who are sick and homeless and yes some of those

people served your country. Those are factual truths. But this is

not true of ALL homeless people.

Raven

Co-Administrator

[Guest guest]

wrote: Once someone makes a choice, whether deluted by an

illness or even in commition of the " false crime opposing fundmental

liberties " . It can be argued that anyone taking drugs or at least some

are doing so becuase they are ill.` There is no personal liability to

what the every essence of free will allows.`

Talk to a few addicts in recovery and then we`ll talk about bad

choices that break the law and are the responsibility of the person

making said bad choices.

Raven

Co-Administrator

[Guest guest]

Your behaviour in defence of him is personal and your over-reacting.

Tom has indeed judged N.T's and even called all N.T's superficial

once. He and I have talked about this mostly in private and have come

to agreement. Please don't cuase problems with me for odd reasons and

stir it up here. You have attacked others on this forum in the name

of Toms defense lately, it's emotional on your end and your

overreacting.. Please settle down.

" ... <snip> ... People are very sick and homeless,

> some of served this country while I believe they are forgotten to

> easy. Indeed there is a selfishness and stereotypes that exist. "

>

> Yes there are people who are sick and homeless and yes some of

those

> people served your country. Those are factual truths. But this is

> not true of ALL homeless people.

>

> Raven

> Co-Administrator

>

[Guest guest]

" 'Homelessness' is subject to some definitional issues, but I've

been an outdoors homeless person (no time in shelters etcetera) for

over ten years and a homeless person living in shelters on and off

for about another year. And no, I don't use drugs. In fact I hate

them. Homeless people are much, much more diverse than almost

everybody thinks. "

Yes. My second cousin was homeless and showed autistic traits. He

did not use drugs, but simply could not fit in anywhere in society.

The one thing that blotted his record that I know of was that he

went AWOL and was jailed, then dishonorably dischraged from the

military.

I enjoyed talking with him when he came for my grandparents' 25th

wedding anniversary. He came off the street for the party, then went

out on the street when it was over.

He was a great man.

He died on the streets, but seemed to enjoy living there instead of

in a shelter, according to what he said.

Tom

Administrator

[Guest guest]

I really don't see the disgreement. If I was to argue for freedom

dispite it being bad for the individual i would be banned again as it

is illegal to talk about certain things here.

I don't need to talk to anyone. The laws currently though protective of

society are to harsh, they jail people for being ill and basically

remove there freedoms. Anyone on drugs instead of being in jail should

be treated unless selling them in my opinion.

Though seemingly treatment facilities in facilitation are jails, there

is a difference from a jail cell. I tend to lean towards compassion.

Punishing someone for being ill is to me a moral oppression and

persecution.

Once someone makes a choice, whether deluted by an

> illness or even in commition of the " false crime opposing fundmental

> liberties " . It can be argued that anyone taking drugs or at least

some

> are doing so becuase they are ill.` There is no personal liability to

> what the every essence of free will allows.`

>

> Talk to a few addicts in recovery and then we`ll talk about bad

> choices that break the law and are the responsibility of the person

> making said bad choices.

>

> Raven

> Co-Administrator

>

[Guest guest]

Some people actually choose to live on the streets. Perhaps this is

because they are unable, like others with a form of a disability and

or illness cannot maintain the conditions financial thus accept being

on the streets.

Ultimately choosing to be on the streets to me is an illness. There

are ways to make sure there are homes for everyone, money is no

excuse.

>

> " 'Homelessness' is subject to some definitional issues, but I've

> been an outdoors homeless person (no time in shelters etcetera) for

> over ten years and a homeless person living in shelters on and off

> for about another year. And no, I don't use drugs. In fact I hate

> them. Homeless people are much, much more diverse than almost

> everybody thinks. "

>

> Yes. My second cousin was homeless and showed autistic traits. He

> did not use drugs, but simply could not fit in anywhere in society.

> The one thing that blotted his record that I know of was that he

> went AWOL and was jailed, then dishonorably dischraged from the

> military.

>

> I enjoyed talking with him when he came for my grandparents' 25th

> wedding anniversary. He came off the street for the party, then

went

> out on the street when it was over.

>

> He was a great man.

>

> He died on the streets, but seemed to enjoy living there instead of

> in a shelter, according to what he said.

>

> Tom

> Administrator

>

[Guest guest]

" If you do not see that there is a hate against the homeless then that

is blindness on your part. I've heard them called lazy and all sorts

of disgraceful ignorant remarks by those that do. "

There is much hate against the homeless.

I do not hate them at all, however.

But I DO not think we should not be so forgiving of drug addictions

gone bad. There are other homeless people who are clean, and who are

not getting funds, food, and shelter because the available funds,

food, and shelter are going to addicts who got themselves into their

own mess by nothing other than using drugs.

Tom

Administrator