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>

> I was reading one of his books and came across this:

> " Right now, to be candid, it seems to be almost malicious on the

> part of nature, as if there were some law that the price for the

> unleasing of human intellect is either autism or giantism. "

Would that be Ender's Game? I haven't read that one.

I had to look up his bio when you said he might be an aspie but I

couldn't find anything specific. He impresses me with his moral

messages and I've included a short bio of him here.

Kim

Born in Richland, Washington, Card grew up in California, Arizona,

and Utah. He lived in Brazil for two years as an unpaid missionary

for the Mormon Church. He received degrees from Brigham Young

University (1975) and the University of Utah (1981). He currently

lives in Greensboro, North Carolina. He and his wife, e, are

the parents of five children: Geoffrey, , , Zina

Margaret, and Louisa (named for Chaucer, Bronte and Dickinson,

Dickens, , and Alcott, respectively). A devout Mormon, he

believes that all fiction has a strong moral message. He believes

that the message should be positive; nevertheless, his choice of

subject matter and the amount of violence in his books have led to

some raised eyebrows in the Mormon church. Card's characters are

usually put in a position of having to make difficult and interesting

moral choices. Card believes that it is the character's interaction

with other people which makes him interesting. Family is also a

central theme in his work.

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I've spoken with Mr. Card by phone — though we didn't talk about AS,

he definitely gives me the impression of someone who has AS and a very

high intellect.

Also, much of the plot of his horror-fantasy novel LOST BOYS (*not*

the better-known book with that title by someone else) involves a

brilliant kid who suffers mightily at his new school because his

third-grade teacher:

/a/ insists on marking certain right answers as " wrong " (giving a

red " x " for the correct plural of " octopus " for instance, because the

teacher doesn't know the correct plural but thinks she does &

therefore hasn't bothered to check the dictionary, and considers it

rude and wrong that the boy's father finally asks her to do so.)

and

/b/ allows the other students to publicly destroy some of this

boy's classwork because [says the teacher] " any normally intelligent

person would have understood that when an assignment calls for a

'depiction of undersea life' the word 'depiction' means 'poster' and

therefore cannot mean 'full-scale 3-D diorama' " — *after* the other

kids destroy this kid's classwork, this teacher changes the kid's

grade to zero because (as she gleefully points out) after the

destruction, the kid has no " depiction " whatsoever left to grade.

When I phoned Mr. Card, I asked if these came from real incidents

(because they sounded a lot like things that happened to me in

school). He said that, /a/ yes, exactly these things (and many more

like them) had happened to one of his sons, and /b/ both he and his

son had the impression (made very clear in the novel) that this

teacher and many other local students/parents felt offended by someone

who dared to do things " too competently. "

This bit about the social fear of others doing things " too

competently " also appears throughout Orson Card's non-horror

fantasy-fiction " Alvin Maker " series: set in a world where every

individual has a particular inborn and mostly-involuntary magical

power (such as knowing the future, or making plants grow better, or

whatever) but most countries have made it illegal to use these powers.

In one of the books (I can't remember which one) a boy in England (one

of the countries that have made magic illegal) has a job making

barrels in his father's woodworking shop. The boy's magic power

applies to woodworking: any barrel he makes will look absolutely

perfect, will never leak, etc., unless the boy actively strives NOT to

use his power — so Dad (who strongly supports the anti-magic laws and

beliefs) beats the boy whenever the boy makes a barrel that looks " too

good, " that works " too well, " that leaks " too little, " that in any way

comes out " too much " better than the average of Dad's barrels.

The boy eventually (after many years of punishment!) teaches

himself how to hold back his power so he can make barrels that don't

work *suspiciously* too well but work just enough of a tiny bit

better-than-average to get Dad's barrel shop a good reputation without

getting Dad suspicious or angry — unfortunately, when the boy grows up

and moves to the New World (and makes a home in a state which has no

laws against magic), he has a really, really hard time using all of

his power after all those years of having trained himself not to.

This reminded me of the struggles that someone may have if all his/her

life s/he has gotten punished for some intellectual

trait/aptitude/interest/skill/whatever that, later on, s/he and the

society may need.

(I know people my age — including some who probably have AS —

whose parents and teachers forced them to stop having an interest in

then- " unbelievable " things like household computers and

nanotechnology. Some of those people, including myself, had to promise

[in writing and/or before our parents/classmates/etc.] that we would

never, ever believe that any such " silly " things could ever become

real. To this day, every time I use e-mail I actually feel seriously

guilty because I have broken my oath ... ]

Kate Gladstone

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I've spoken with Mr. Card by phone — though we didn't talk about AS,

he definitely gives me the impression of someone who has AS and a very

high intellect.

Also, much of the plot of his horror-fantasy novel LOST BOYS (*not*

the better-known book with that title by someone else) involves a

brilliant kid who suffers mightily at his new school because his

third-grade teacher:

/a/ insists on marking certain right answers as " wrong " (giving a

red " x " for the correct plural of " octopus " for instance, because the

teacher doesn't know the correct plural but thinks she does &

therefore hasn't bothered to check the dictionary, and considers it

rude and wrong that the boy's father finally asks her to do so.)

and

/b/ allows the other students to publicly destroy some of this

boy's classwork because [says the teacher] " any normally intelligent

person would have understood that when an assignment calls for a

'depiction of undersea life' the word 'depiction' means 'poster' and

therefore cannot mean 'full-scale 3-D diorama' " — *after* the other

kids destroy this kid's classwork, this teacher changes the kid's

grade to zero because (as she gleefully points out) after the

destruction, the kid has no " depiction " whatsoever left to grade.

When I phoned Mr. Card, I asked if these came from real incidents

(because they sounded a lot like things that happened to me in

school). He said that, /a/ yes, exactly these things (and many more

like them) had happened to one of his sons, and /b/ both he and his

son had the impression (made very clear in the novel) that this

teacher and many other local students/parents felt offended by someone

who dared to do things " too competently. "

This bit about the social fear of others doing things " too

competently " also appears throughout Orson Card's non-horror

fantasy-fiction " Alvin Maker " series: set in a world where every

individual has a particular inborn and mostly-involuntary magical

power (such as knowing the future, or making plants grow better, or

whatever) but most countries have made it illegal to use these powers.

In one of the books (I can't remember which one) a boy in England (one

of the countries that have made magic illegal) has a job making

barrels in his father's woodworking shop. The boy's magic power

applies to woodworking: any barrel he makes will look absolutely

perfect, will never leak, etc., unless the boy actively strives NOT to

use his power — so Dad (who strongly supports the anti-magic laws and

beliefs) beats the boy whenever the boy makes a barrel that looks " too

good, " that works " too well, " that leaks " too little, " that in any way

comes out " too much " better than the average of Dad's barrels.

The boy eventually (after many years of punishment!) teaches

himself how to hold back his power so he can make barrels that don't

work *suspiciously* too well but work just enough of a tiny bit

better-than-average to get Dad's barrel shop a good reputation without

getting Dad suspicious or angry — unfortunately, when the boy grows up

and moves to the New World (and makes a home in a state which has no

laws against magic), he has a really, really hard time using all of

his power after all those years of having trained himself not to.

This reminded me of the struggles that someone may have if all his/her

life s/he has gotten punished for some intellectual

trait/aptitude/interest/skill/whatever that, later on, s/he and the

society may need.

(I know people my age — including some who probably have AS —

whose parents and teachers forced them to stop having an interest in

then- " unbelievable " things like household computers and

nanotechnology. Some of those people, including myself, had to promise

[in writing and/or before our parents/classmates/etc.] that we would

never, ever believe that any such " silly " things could ever become

real. To this day, every time I use e-mail I actually feel seriously

guilty because I have broken my oath ... ]

Kate Gladstone

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>

> " Would that be Ender's Game? I haven't read that one. "

It's 'Shadow of the Giant', the 8th book of the Ender

books. 'Ender's Game' is the first, though there's a short story

version if you just want to get the story.

>

> " I had to look up his bio when you said he might be an aspie but I

> couldn't find anything specific. "

I couldn't either.

" He impresses me with his moral

> messages and I've included a short bio of him here. "

I like it too, though sometimes he 'talks' too much in his books--

philosophising, debating, witty repartee, sigh, and I want a

story! :) I think it was the second to last Alvin Maker book that I

didn't like because of an excessive amount of this 'talk'.

He wasn't always a devout Mormon, but went through a period of doubt,

so his books have reflected this. More talk now, is one of the

results of this change to a more devout Mormon, I think. Plus he's

older.

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>

" The boy eventually (after many years of punishment!) teaches

> himself how to hold back his power so he can make barrels that don't

> work *suspiciously* too well but work just enough of a tiny bit

> better-than-average to get Dad's barrel shop a good reputation without

> getting Dad suspicious or angry "

Thanks for the insight, Kate. I remember this above, and can relate to

it! It's very indicative of being an Aspie in an NT world.

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Hi Kate,

This was an excellent post. I was made to copy lines because I

asserted once that there could be lightning during snowstorms. My

scieince teacher didn't know that. Every weatherman in Chicago did.

When I told my teacher this, he said it didn't matter and no apology

from him was warranted and the punishment was apt because I had

disrupted his class.

In the business world I have been blasted by my colleagues because

they could not grasp my brilliant solutions to problems only to later

have them come to me for help in solving them.

Tom

Administrator

This reminded me of the struggles that someone may have if all his/her

life s/he has gotten punished for some intellectual

trait/aptitude/interest/skill/whatever that, later on, s/he and the

society may need.

(I know people my age — including some who probably have AS —

whose parents and teachers forced them to stop having an interest in

then- " unbelievable " things like household computers and

nanotechnology. Some of those people, including myself, had to promise

[in writing and/or before our parents/classmates/etc.] that we would

never, ever believe that any such " silly " things could ever become

real. To this day, every time I use e-mail I actually feel seriously

guilty because I have broken my oath ... ]

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Tom writes:

> This was an excellent post. I was made to copy lines because I

> asserted once that there could be lightning during snowstorms. My

> scieince teacher didn't know that. Every weatherman in Chicago did.

> When I told my teacher this, he said it didn't matter and no apology

> from him was warranted and the punishment was apt because I had

> disrupted his class.

Besides similar experiences in school, in the " real world " I've also

had such experiences.

In 1994, I received a promotional brochure from a

remedial-education professional (now deceased) whom I knew slightly.

When I called her by phone to " talk shop " about some

remedial-education matters, as it happened I mentioned that I now had

e-mail. The professional asked " What's e-mail? " I explained (as

briefly and simply as I could) about sending and receiving messages

all over the world by computer. She replied: " Now I know you're trying

to 'snow' me. There is no such thing, and you're just trying to make

yourself look important. Don't you realize that this kind of nonsense

reflects badly on your credibility, such as it is? " She then went on

and on to " prove " to me that no such thing as e-mail ever existed or

ever would exist outside of science fiction: " If you want to believe

that computers can to each other from miles and miles away — well,

Kate, what *else* do you believe that's on STAR TREK? "

If this story had happened on the Hollywood screen, then my

colleague would have lived long enough to get e-mail — she would have

sent me a promotional e-mail — and I would have had the pleasure of

responding " Sorry: I can't buy your course because the ad reached me

in an e-mail, and you have already proven to me that e-mail cannot

exist. " However, she died before this could happen.

One well-known person, though, has had a happier ending to his own

" teacher-said-it-can't-happen " story.

NASA writer/engineer Jerry Pournelle remembers that, years ago in

his high-school days, he and two other students constantly got into

trouble with the science-teacher (and thereby into more trouble with

the principal) for saying that one day people would fly to the Moon,

would have a computer in every house, would do cloning, and similar

" impossibilities. " The principal finally forbade these three

troublemakers to mention any such things. Jerry went into the

sciences; his two buddies didn't ... then, decades later (July 20,

1969) Jerry Pournelle appeared on TV as part of the NASA

public-relations team covering the Apollo 11 launch ... that night, he

got a call from his old high-school principal /a/ apologizing, almost

in tears, for what the principal ande teacher had said all those years

ago, and /b/ bitterly lamenting that the other two kids (but not

Jerry) had listened to the teacher and principal: " If those other two

had been as disobedient as you, Jerry, this [Moon launch] would have

happened ten years earlier. "

Kate Gladstone

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>

> " She then went on

> and on to " prove " to me that no such thing as e-mail ever existed or

> ever would exist outside of science fiction: " If you want to believe

> that computers can to each other from miles and miles away — well,

> Kate, what *else* do you believe that's on STAR TREK? " "

FLIP PHONES!! Hee hee.

>

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" I thought this was interesting that he equates autism with

intellect-- I think most people think of autistics as possibly

retarded, don't they? "

I have unfortunately come across people who think that people with

Aspergers are slow :-( One time it was in a chat room, you should

have seen how fast I suddenly typed :-)

>

> I was reading one of his books and came across this:

>

> " Right now, to be candid, it seems to be almost malicious on the

part

> of nature, as if there were some law that the price for the

unleasing

> of human intellect is either autism or giantism. "

>

> (Giantism here is not true giantism-the character who has it in

this

> book is super intelligent due to a scientist messing with his genes

> and one of the side effects was giantism.)

>

> I thought this was interesting that he equates autism with

intellect--

> I think most people think of autistics as possibly retarded, don't

> they?

>

> I had wondered if Card was possibly Aspergers. I have that

connection

> with him, from his writing, that I often do with people, including

> authors, that I later find out are probably Aspergers. Also I met

him

> briefly at a book signing and he clicked with me in the same way,

but

> I was too shy to respond and I did what I often do when I get

nervous-

> -say dumb things and come across as a bimbo. He internally rolled

his

> eyes and gave up on me, lol.

>

> Some equate the characters in his Ender books to Aspergers, and

they

> fact that he wrote that sentence makes me wonder if he has more

than

> the average person's understanding of autism and why that would be

so.

>

>

>

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" I thought this was interesting that he equates autism with

intellect-- I think most people think of autistics as possibly

retarded, don't they? "

I have unfortunately come across people who think that people with

Aspergers are slow :-( One time it was in a chat room, you should

have seen how fast I suddenly typed :-)

>

> I was reading one of his books and came across this:

>

> " Right now, to be candid, it seems to be almost malicious on the

part

> of nature, as if there were some law that the price for the

unleasing

> of human intellect is either autism or giantism. "

>

> (Giantism here is not true giantism-the character who has it in

this

> book is super intelligent due to a scientist messing with his genes

> and one of the side effects was giantism.)

>

> I thought this was interesting that he equates autism with

intellect--

> I think most people think of autistics as possibly retarded, don't

> they?

>

> I had wondered if Card was possibly Aspergers. I have that

connection

> with him, from his writing, that I often do with people, including

> authors, that I later find out are probably Aspergers. Also I met

him

> briefly at a book signing and he clicked with me in the same way,

but

> I was too shy to respond and I did what I often do when I get

nervous-

> -say dumb things and come across as a bimbo. He internally rolled

his

> eyes and gave up on me, lol.

>

> Some equate the characters in his Ender books to Aspergers, and

they

> fact that he wrote that sentence makes me wonder if he has more

than

> the average person's understanding of autism and why that would be

so.

>

>

>

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Very poignantly written Kate. Like usual you're able to drive the point straight into the muck and go through it to the other side. I've heard meditation helps people unlock their lost powers. It's helped me because I've scored considerably higher than expected on tests after I've spent a few months meditating every night, breathing slowly in front of a candle and chanting a phrase or a few different phrases. Kate Gladstone <handwritingrepair@...> wrote: I've spoken with Mr. Card by phone — though we didn't talk about AS,he definitely gives me the impression of someone who has AS and a veryhigh intellect.Also, much of the plot of his horror-fantasy novel LOST BOYS (*not*the better-known book with that title by someone else) involves abrilliant kid who suffers mightily at his new school because histhird-grade

teacher:/a/ insists on marking certain right answers as "wrong" (giving ared "x" for the correct plural of "octopus" for instance, because theteacher doesn't know the correct plural but thinks she does & therefore hasn't bothered to check the dictionary, and considers itrude and wrong that the boy's father finally asks her to do so.)and/b/ allows the other students to publicly destroy some of thisboy's classwork because [says the teacher] "any normally intelligentperson would have understood that when an assignment calls for a'depiction of undersea life' the word 'depiction' means 'poster' andtherefore cannot mean 'full-scale 3-D diorama' " — *after* the otherkids destroy this kid's classwork, this teacher changes the kid'sgrade to zero because (as she gleefully points out) after thedestruction, the kid has no "depiction" whatsoever left to grade.When I phoned Mr. Card, I asked if these came

from real incidents(because they sounded a lot like things that happened to me inschool). He said that, /a/ yes, exactly these things (and many morelike them) had happened to one of his sons, and /b/ both he and hisson had the impression (made very clear in the novel) that thisteacher and many other local students/parents felt offended by someonewho dared to do things "too competently."This bit about the social fear of others doing things "toocompetently" also appears throughout Orson Card's non-horrorfantasy-fiction "Alvin Maker" series: set in a world where everyindividual has a particular inborn and mostly-involuntary magicalpower (such as knowing the future, or making plants grow better, orwhatever) but most countries have made it illegal to use these powers.In one of the books (I can't remember which one) a boy in England (oneof the countries that have made magic illegal) has a job makingbarrels

in his father's woodworking shop. The boy's magic powerapplies to woodworking: any barrel he makes will look absolutelyperfect, will never leak, etc., unless the boy actively strives NOT touse his power — so Dad (who strongly supports the anti-magic laws andbeliefs) beats the boy whenever the boy makes a barrel that looks "toogood," that works "too well," that leaks "too little," that in any waycomes out "too much" better than the average of Dad's barrels.The boy eventually (after many years of punishment!) teacheshimself how to hold back his power so he can make barrels that don'twork *suspiciously* too well but work just enough of a tiny bitbetter-than-average to get Dad's barrel shop a good reputation withoutgetting Dad suspicious or angry — unfortunately, when the boy grows upand moves to the New World (and makes a home in a state which has nolaws against magic), he has a really, really hard time using all ofhis

power after all those years of having trained himself not to.This reminded me of the struggles that someone may have if all his/herlife s/he has gotten punished for some intellectualtrait/aptitude/interest/skill/whatever that, later on, s/he and thesociety may need.(I know people my age — including some who probably have AS —whose parents and teachers forced them to stop having an interest inthen-"unbelievable" things like household computers andnanotechnology. Some of those people, including myself, had to promise[in writing and/or before our parents/classmates/etc.] that we wouldnever, ever believe that any such "silly" things could ever becomereal. To this day, every time I use e-mail I actually feel seriouslyguilty because I have broken my oath ... ]Kate Gladstone

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Re:

> > " She then went on

> > and on to " prove " to me that no such thing as e-mail ever existed or

> > ever would exist outside of science fiction: " If you want to believe

> > that computers can [talk] to each other from miles and miles away — well,

> > Kate, what *else* do you believe that's on STAR TREK? " "

>

> FLIP PHONES!! Hee hee.

> >

Though she and I never got onto the subject of cell-phones, now and

then (soon after cell-phones started becoming common) I did run into a

few educated/well-paid/presumably somewhat intelligent people who

didn't believe that the devices actually worked over more than a few

yards' separation, actually worked in cars, etc., etc/. — not even

even if their cell-phone-using friends claimed (or demonstrated)

otherwise.

About nine or ten years ago, some newspapers interviewing me (mostly

but not entirely small-town newspapers) would *intentionally* print my

URL incorrectly in the final draft of the article (with spaces after

the periods, and/or omitting/changing some of the punctuation) because

(as the editors explained to me and to other computer-users who called

the editors to complain when the URL in the paper didn't work)

punctuation-rules forbid such things as having anything (except a

space) immediately after a period. (This changed, of course, once the

newspapers got their own web-sites and of course wanted to print their

own URLs accurately. However, before that, for a couple of years my

first clue that a newspaper had run an article mentioning me would

often consist of my getting irate phone-calls from various readers

saying " You gave the paper the wrong URL — why did you do that? Can't

you even give your own URL right? " Readers who blamed it on me instead

of the editor would, naturally enough, call me to complain instead of

calling the editor: some of them refused to believe that an editor

would have done something this dumb, even AFTER [at my urging] they

called the editor.)

Until about five or six years ago, some of the private and public

schools hereabouts similarly required " proper " but wrong (non-working)

punctuation of any URLs that a student might write or type in an

assignment. (This immediately followed a brief period in which —

predictably — at least a couple of those same schools had forbidden

use or even mention of the Internet or anything pertaining thereto

" because children's fads should not be acknowledged or encouraged. " )

Kate Gladstone

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Re:

> > " She then went on

> > and on to " prove " to me that no such thing as e-mail ever existed or

> > ever would exist outside of science fiction: " If you want to believe

> > that computers can [talk] to each other from miles and miles away — well,

> > Kate, what *else* do you believe that's on STAR TREK? " "

>

> FLIP PHONES!! Hee hee.

> >

Though she and I never got onto the subject of cell-phones, now and

then (soon after cell-phones started becoming common) I did run into a

few educated/well-paid/presumably somewhat intelligent people who

didn't believe that the devices actually worked over more than a few

yards' separation, actually worked in cars, etc., etc/. — not even

even if their cell-phone-using friends claimed (or demonstrated)

otherwise.

About nine or ten years ago, some newspapers interviewing me (mostly

but not entirely small-town newspapers) would *intentionally* print my

URL incorrectly in the final draft of the article (with spaces after

the periods, and/or omitting/changing some of the punctuation) because

(as the editors explained to me and to other computer-users who called

the editors to complain when the URL in the paper didn't work)

punctuation-rules forbid such things as having anything (except a

space) immediately after a period. (This changed, of course, once the

newspapers got their own web-sites and of course wanted to print their

own URLs accurately. However, before that, for a couple of years my

first clue that a newspaper had run an article mentioning me would

often consist of my getting irate phone-calls from various readers

saying " You gave the paper the wrong URL — why did you do that? Can't

you even give your own URL right? " Readers who blamed it on me instead

of the editor would, naturally enough, call me to complain instead of

calling the editor: some of them refused to believe that an editor

would have done something this dumb, even AFTER [at my urging] they

called the editor.)

Until about five or six years ago, some of the private and public

schools hereabouts similarly required " proper " but wrong (non-working)

punctuation of any URLs that a student might write or type in an

assignment. (This immediately followed a brief period in which —

predictably — at least a couple of those same schools had forbidden

use or even mention of the Internet or anything pertaining thereto

" because children's fads should not be acknowledged or encouraged. " )

Kate Gladstone

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Automatic doors :-) not just the pretend ones on the original Star Trek

show that had to be opened manually (behind the scenes) and a sound

track making the 'shhhhhhhhhshhhhhhhh' noise :-)

> >

> > " She then went on

> > and on to " prove " to me that no such thing as e-mail ever existed or

> > ever would exist outside of science fiction: " If you want to believe

> > that computers can to each other from miles and miles away — well,

> > Kate, what *else* do you believe that's on STAR TREK? " "

>

> FLIP PHONES!! Hee hee.

> >

>

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>

> I've spoken with Mr. Card by phone — though we didn't talk about AS,

> he definitely gives me the impression of someone who has AS and a

> very high intellect.

That must have been an interesting conversation. How did you meet

him Kate, through a book signing or was it work related?

> To this day, every time I use e-mail I actually feel seriously

> guilty because I have broken my oath ... ]

What a shame!

> Kate Gladstone

I wonder if science fiction fans saw more possibilities of future

technologies comming to fruition than the average person. Do writers

of fiction explore their visions through their books in order to have

a safe way to enlighten others without being put down for their ideas?

Kim

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Re:

On 9/8/06, Kim <6emini@...> wrote:

>

> >

> > I've spoken with Mr. Card by phone — though we didn't talk about AS,

> > he definitely gives me the impression of someone who has AS and a

> > very high intellect.

>

> That must have been an interesting conversation. How did you meet

> him Kate, through a book signing or was it work related?

I never met him — I just took it into my head to find out his

phone-number and call him because I had some questions about things in

his books.

From various clues in his books (mainly in the most

realistic/autobiographical-sounding, LOST BOYS), I'd deduced his

probable city of residence (Steuben, North Carolina), so I called the

directory-information operator there and she gave me the number.

> > To this day, every time I use e-mail I actually feel seriously

> > guilty because I have broken my oath ... ]

>

> What a shame!

Well, obviously I use e-mail: guilt and all. Psychotherapy and the

like, however, have not helped me remove the guilt-feelings over this

and related matters.

Re:

> I wonder if science fiction fans saw more possibilities of future

> technologies comming to fruition than the average person. Do writers

> of fiction explore their visions through their books in order to have

> a safe way to enlighten others without being put down for their ideas?

Probably — at least, many science-fiction writers have claimed exactly

this as one f their motives for writing.

Kate Gladstone

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I have to ask, Tom & Kate, did you go to public or private school?

Why not bring proof, a book or something to back up your statements?

That would have gotten you in more trouble I guess.

Kim

> Some of those people, including myself, had to promise

> [in writing and/or before our parents/classmates/etc.] that we would

> never, ever believe that any such " silly " things could ever become

> real.

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Kim wrote: " I have to ask, Tom & Kate, did you go to public or

private school? Why not bring proof, a book or something to back up

your statements? That would have gotten you in more trouble I guess. "

Proof doesn't get you listened to any more now than it did back then

(being Ancient Chinese Secret old I can say that sort of thing you

know ... LOL).

My child has taken proof back to his elementary school teachers to

prove his assertions only to be rebuffed publicly and have his proof

brushed aside without consideration. Then there is the secondary blow

as he is consequenced for having DARED to prove the teacher wrong.

*sigh*

Raven

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I went to a public school. I didn't bother to look up what I needed

to to prove myself right. At the time, it didn't matter enough to me

to bother, and just knowing that I was right and my science teacher

was wrong was enough.

I do remember my mom mentioning the " thundersnow " had been in the

Chicago Tribune, which my teacher read in class sometimes, but she

had already thrown out the paper so I could not clip the article. I

had told my science teacher later about the article and he said he

read the Tribune, never saw it, and had thrown out his copy too.

Tom

Adminisrator

I have to ask, Tom & Kate, did you go to public or private school?

Why not bring proof, a book or something to back up your statements?

That would have gotten you in more trouble I guess.

Kim

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8-) :-) 8-) Actually it is in " Ender's Shadow " and Bean is

the kid with " Anton's Key turned " his body and brain never stop

growing...and like all affected with Giantism doomed to die

young...

There are several additional books that feature Bean. In the last

one I read Bean and those of his and Petra's offspring that carry

" Anton's Key " " escape into the future " by means of

relativistic space travel in the hope of a cure being found before Bean's

size kills him...

My guess is the Bean with " Ender, now living a second life in as

doppleganger of Wiggin, the become the ruler of Earth after Ender

defeats the " Buggers " . Ender passes on in the book

" Children of the Mind " that takes place several thousand years

in the future after the " Bugger Wars " (made possible by

relativistic time dialation)

Now you know why I use Ender as an alias...

Ender...

At 09:41 AM 9/7/2006, you wrote:

>

> I was reading one of his books and came across this:

> " Right now, to be candid, it seems to be almost malicious on

the

> part of nature, as if there were some law that the price for the

> unleasing of human intellect is either autism or

giantism. "

Would that be Ender's Game? I haven't read that one.

I had to look up his bio when you said he might be an aspie but I

couldn't find anything specific. He impresses me with his moral

messages and I've included a short bio of him here.

Kim

Born in Richland, Washington, Card grew up in California, Arizona,

and Utah. He lived in Brazil for two years as an unpaid missionary

for the Mormon Church. He received degrees from Brigham Young

University (1975) and the University of Utah (1981). He currently

lives in Greensboro, North Carolina. He and his wife, e, are

the parents of five children: Geoffrey, , , Zina

Margaret, and Louisa (named for Chaucer, Bronte and Dickinson,

Dickens, , and Alcott, respectively). A devout Mormon, he

believes that all fiction has a strong moral message. He believes

that the message should be positive; nevertheless, his choice of

subject matter and the amount of violence in his books have led to

some raised eyebrows in the Mormon church. Card's characters are

usually put in a position of having to make difficult and interesting

moral choices. Card believes that it is the character's interaction

with other people which makes him interesting. Family is also a

central theme in his work.

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8-) :-) 8-) Actually it is in " Ender's Shadow " and Bean is

the kid with " Anton's Key turned " his body and brain never stop

growing...and like all affected with Giantism doomed to die

young...

There are several additional books that feature Bean. In the last

one I read Bean and those of his and Petra's offspring that carry

" Anton's Key " " escape into the future " by means of

relativistic space travel in the hope of a cure being found before Bean's

size kills him...

My guess is the Bean with " Ender, now living a second life in as

doppleganger of Wiggin, the become the ruler of Earth after Ender

defeats the " Buggers " . Ender passes on in the book

" Children of the Mind " that takes place several thousand years

in the future after the " Bugger Wars " (made possible by

relativistic time dialation)

Now you know why I use Ender as an alias...

Ender...

At 09:41 AM 9/7/2006, you wrote:

>

> I was reading one of his books and came across this:

> " Right now, to be candid, it seems to be almost malicious on

the

> part of nature, as if there were some law that the price for the

> unleasing of human intellect is either autism or

giantism. "

Would that be Ender's Game? I haven't read that one.

I had to look up his bio when you said he might be an aspie but I

couldn't find anything specific. He impresses me with his moral

messages and I've included a short bio of him here.

Kim

Born in Richland, Washington, Card grew up in California, Arizona,

and Utah. He lived in Brazil for two years as an unpaid missionary

for the Mormon Church. He received degrees from Brigham Young

University (1975) and the University of Utah (1981). He currently

lives in Greensboro, North Carolina. He and his wife, e, are

the parents of five children: Geoffrey, , , Zina

Margaret, and Louisa (named for Chaucer, Bronte and Dickinson,

Dickens, , and Alcott, respectively). A devout Mormon, he

believes that all fiction has a strong moral message. He believes

that the message should be positive; nevertheless, his choice of

subject matter and the amount of violence in his books have led to

some raised eyebrows in the Mormon church. Card's characters are

usually put in a position of having to make difficult and interesting

moral choices. Card believes that it is the character's interaction

with other people which makes him interesting. Family is also a

central theme in his work.

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" 8-) :-) 8-) Actually it is in " Ender's Shadow " and Bean is the kid

with " Anton's Key turned " his body and brain never stop growing...and

like all affected with Giantism doomed to die young...

There are several additional books that feature Bean. In the last

one I read Bean and those of his and Petra's offspring that

carry " Anton's Key " " escape into the future " by means of relativistic

space travel in the hope of a cure being found before Bean's size

kills him... "

You're right, it's 'Ender's Shadow'. It the same as the one you say

above, that's the last one you read. I think it's the last one he's

written so far. I usually read them when they come out though not

this one, but with my memory, waiting a year or two between books

means that I forget what the preceding books were about, along with

important facts that you need to keep up with the series!

" My guess is the Bean with " Ender, now living a second life in as

doppleganger of Wiggin, the become the ruler of Earth after

Ender defeats the " Buggers " . Ender passes on in the book " Children of

the Mind " that takes place several thousand years in the future after

the " Bugger Wars " (made possible by relativistic time dialation)

Now you know why I use Ender as an alias... "

Actually, I didn't get that--why do you? Ender's a good guy. :)

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Kim and all — I went to private schools through ninth grade; after

that, I went to a public high school. The same things happened in all

my schools (including college) ... and bringing in proof

(encyclopedias, dictionaries, books from the school library or from

the teacher's own recommended-reading list for that class or that

grade) made things worse, not better (I would get sent to the

principal, would have my grade lowered further, have to do a " special

extra essay assignment " to make up for " making trouble " by bringing

stuff in [and then the teaher would give me an extra-special low grade

on this subjectively-graded special extra assignment that she had made

up just for me], ertc., etc., etc.)

Well, the same has happened to others. the late Jay Gould

(science-writer and scientist, whose survivors include an autistic

math-savant son) mentioned in one of his books how he ( Jay

Gould) had a 5th-grade math-teacher who (incorrectly) stated to the

class that the laws of arithmetic prevented any baseball-player from

exceeding a certain batting-average (.350, I think) ... well, not too

long after that the newspapers reported that a certain player had done

it (had hit .351 or whatever), so of course little brought in

the paper, expected a public apology, and did not recieve even a

private apology: the math-teacher, as I recall, took one look at the

article, said " This doesn't change the facts, " and lowered the boy's

grade for insolence.

Kate Gladstone

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At 02:01 PM 9/8/2006, you wrote:

> " 8-) :-) 8-) Actually it is in " Ender's Shadow " and Bean is the kid

>with " Anton's Key turned " his body and brain never stop growing...and

>like all affected with Giantism doomed to die young...

>

>There are several additional books that feature Bean. In the last

>one I read Bean and those of his and Petra's offspring that

>carry " Anton's Key " " escape into the future " by means of relativistic

>space travel in the hope of a cure being found before Bean's size

>kills him... "

>

>You're right, it's 'Ender's Shadow'. It the same as the one you say

>above, that's the last one you read. I think it's the last one he's

>written so far. I usually read them when they come out though not

>this one, but with my memory, waiting a year or two between books

>means that I forget what the preceding books were about, along with

>important facts that you need to keep up with the series!

>

> " My guess is the Bean with " Ender, now living a second life in as

>doppleganger of Wiggin, the become the ruler of Earth after

>Ender defeats the " Buggers " . Ender passes on in the book " Children of

>the Mind " that takes place several thousand years in the future after

>the " Bugger Wars " (made possible by relativistic time dialation)

>

>Now you know why I use Ender as an alias... "

>

>Actually, I didn't get that--why do you? Ender's a good guy. :)

>

>

Ender IS A REALLY GOOD GUY, but in the world Card creates in the

books between Ender's Game and Ender's Shadow, the name Ender Wiggin

has the same effect on people that Adolf Hitler does today... the

image of ultimate evil... When he destroyed the Bugger's home world

(where the last of the Hive Queens were " hiding " he destroyed the

entire Bugger civilization... Later he finds out the Buggers had come

Earth believing it to not harbor intelligent life Once they realize

that earth human is complete intelligent individual (the individual

Buggers are extensions of Hive Queens minds, akin to the cells of our

bodies are extensions of our brains and equally expendable) they

decided to leave the Earth alone... but they couldn't communicate

that to us and we figure that they will be back since we defeated the

invasion fleet by destroying the ship with the Hive Queen aboard by

pure dumb luck... This knowledge is devastating to the teenage Ender...

Ender comes to grips the what he had been maneuvered into doing by

writing a book called " The Hive Queen " explaining the Buggers side of

the story... And once people started to understand, Ender the Child

Hero of the Human Race becomes the most reviled people in history...

Even though he believed the entire Third Bugger War was just a

simulation a game to help train the kids at Battle School to Defend

the Earth from the invasion we were sure was coming, not knowing the

Bugger were sorry for not understanding that we are intelligent in a

different way than they were and were going the leave us be...

That Bean will meet up with Ender 3000 years later is my guess what

Card has in mind for the next book saving Bean and reuniting him with

both Ender and (Ender's older brother, that becomes the

" president of the world " and step parent to Beans " normal " kids that

stayed on Earth with Petra when Bean left for space to wait for a

cure... The two story line can fold together very nicely... Bean can

be cured and with the Wiggins save the Universe from what may be the

a truly evil race...

Ender

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