Re: Suicide and Abortion

June 21, 2006

In a message dated 6/20/2006 11:14:10 PM Eastern Standard Time, drumthis2001@... writes:

Shakespeare thought he was living in bad times. It always looks like that. People are no better than any other creature. Philosophy doesn't get the job done. Animal Farm is a book I had to read in high school. There are some who believe that the best people are the ones in the positions of passing laws. The horse in Animal Farm was euthanized and sold for glue.

Animal Farm was written as a metaphor for Communist Russia. It was intended to show how the Communists fooled the people into putting them in power, but then their lot got even worse, while the Communists became what they had deposed.

The horse represented the hardworking peasants who just go on doing what they were doing and hoping for the best, then when horse lost his ability to work, he was sold for glue.

It was the pigs who lead the revolt against the farmer. Later in the story, the pigs have moved into the farmer's house and are even wearing clothes. When the humans come to make a profit from the work of the animals, at the invitation of the pigs, there is a scene where one of the animals looks in the window and sees the humans and pigs look alike.

So in other words, the masses were still being exploited only now they were under threat of their own military, I think represented by the dog, and the Communists who were so against the Bourgeois became even more Bourgeois than the people they had overthrown.

June 21, 2006

Shakespeare thought he was living in bad times. It always looks like that. People are no better than any other creature. Philosophy doesn't get the job done. Animal Farm is a book I had to read in high school. There are some who believe that the best people are the ones in the positions of passing laws. The horse in Animal Farm was euthanized and sold for glue. jillipep <jillipep@...> wrote: Hey Everybody -First time I've visited in awhile, probably won't stick around long, just too busy. But after reading a

few of the digests, I had to wonder: am I the only aspie who suffers from the following duality: one part of me loves humanity while the other sees the world and considers humanity as a cancer. Reading the posts on abortion, all I could think was that it's a good thing that we kill ourselves off since there aren't enough natural predators to do it for us. Seriously, at least animals have enough built-in sense (instincts) not to use up all the resources they need to survive, pollute the air and water, etc. Am I the only one who sees this? As much as I hate war and violence, I'm starting to see that humans don't have the self-discipline to keep ourselves in check in any other way. Why abort your baby now when they can be cannon fodder later? Sorry to be such a downer, I'm a tad depressed. I'll try to come back when I'm in a better mood. Oh yeah, re. suicide: my mother hung herself when I was sixteen and I tried to kill

myself the same year. I think rather than judging the individual as far as abortion/suicide are concerned, it might be better to look at the environmental/societal conditions. For example, if environmental conditions are incorrect, deer will abort. Why is it so shocking that humans would not want to have children in our pollution/stress-filled world? And why are we all so quick to judge each other? Again and again I want to ask: let (s)he who is without sin cast the first stone. Glass houses and all that.Jill

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June 21, 2006

Hi ,

Sorry, you're right about the deer. But I've got to say that humans

ability to feed themselves comes at the cost of every other living

thing feeding themselves. It's all out of balance. It just gets me down

that humans think, just because we have a Bible, that we're the center

of the universe. Instead of being the caretakers of this lovely planet

we've been given, we are instead going to breed until there is no room

left for anything else. For such a supposedly 'smart' group, we're

awfully stupid. The sanctity of human life at the cost of everything

else---does noone else look around and see that we are eating up the

planet? I used to be upset that the automobile killed off over 40,000

per year in America per year. Now I'm beginning to see that it's too

bad it isn't more, considering the sheer amount of waste that we're

responsible for, and for how little return. What good do we do? All we

do is consume, consume, consume, selfish beings all. Wow, I can't

believe what a bad mood I'm in. Sorry, everybody, I'm not going to post

anymore until I can put on a shinier, happier face.

Jill

June 21, 2006

You forgot to mention the fact that people could really help the plants grow if only their dead, worthless bodies weren't put in graves. jillipep <jillipep@...> wrote: Hi , Sorry, you're right about the deer. But I've got to say that humans ability to feed themselves comes at the cost of every other living thing feeding themselves. It's all out of balance. It just gets me down that humans think, just because we have a Bible, that we're the center of the universe. Instead of being the caretakers of this lovely planet we've been

given, we are instead going to breed until there is no room left for anything else. For such a supposedly 'smart' group, we're awfully stupid. The sanctity of human life at the cost of everything else---does noone else look around and see that we are eating up the planet? I used to be upset that the automobile killed off over 40,000 per year in America per year. Now I'm beginning to see that it's too bad it isn't more, considering the sheer amount of waste that we're responsible for, and for how little return. What good do we do? All we do is consume, consume, consume, selfish beings all. Wow, I can't believe what a bad mood I'm in. Sorry, everybody, I'm not going to post anymore until I can put on a shinier, happier face. Jill

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June 21, 2006

>

> You forgot to mention the fact that people could really help the

plants grow if only their dead, worthless bodies weren't put in graves.

>

I actually was just thinking about this! Seriously, isn't it sad that

our bodies aren't even good for the planet after we die, since they are

usually full of embalming fluid, not to mention all the nasty garbage

that is in the average American diet? Not only are we selfish while

we're alive, we've managed to be selfish after death as well, keeping

ourselves out of the food chain even then. What is the matter with

us?!? Or were you just teasing me? I don't mind if you were, I'm in a

fairly numb state at the moment.

Jill

June 21, 2006

No. I wasn't teasing. Well, you basically said it when you explained how humans aren't helping the world. You said average american diet. Some people name it the Standard American Diet which in abbreviations spells S.A.D. {BG} Cigarettes are still glamorized and only on paramedic shows is the reality shown and that's rare even then. The architectural renaissance had passion behind it and even then was geared toward more people going to church and paying taxes to the church. Basically, it has the same principle of greed with the illusion of inspiration today and hasn't changed much in that regard since the renaissance. Even the composer Bach worked for the church. Why not make 24/7 shows on the people working in sweatshops 20 hours a day or they could videotape the declining health of people working in cubicles at wireless phone companies. Just a thought. jillipep <jillipep@...> wrote: >> You forgot to mention the fact that people could really help the plants grow if only their dead, worthless bodies weren't put in graves. > I actually was just thinking about this! Seriously, isn't it sad that our bodies aren't even good for the planet after we die, since they are usually full of embalming fluid, not to mention all the nasty garbage that is in the average American diet? Not only are we

selfish while we're alive, we've managed to be selfish after death as well, keeping ourselves out of the food chain even then. What is the matter with us?!? Or were you just teasing me? I don't mind if you were, I'm in a fairly numb state at the moment. Jill

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June 21, 2006

In a message dated 6/21/2006 2:44:16 AM Eastern Standard Time, jillipep@... writes:

Sorry, you're right about the deer. But I've got to say that humans ability to feed themselves comes at the cost of every other living thing feeding themselves. It's all out of balance.

It isn't just deer, it is all life. All forms of life will continue to expand as long as there is a food supply. Australia is having tremendous problems with mice and rabbits which have no natural predators there. The mice get into grain stores and multiply into the millions very quickly, and the rabbits are turning the outback into desert. Even bacteria will multiply to and beyond their food supply unless somehow kept in check. Plants like kudzu and English Ivy will overrun everything else, killing the other plants and there are water plants that do the same. Algae, will multiply to the point that it will use up all the oxygen in the water killing just about everything else.

Humans do have the capacity to grow their own food. Food production doesn't take up as much land as you might think. Yes there are farms around but there is also a lot of woodland as well. In fact, Virginia and Alabama both have more woodland now than they have at any time since the Civil War. But back to the farm, those do tend to be very productive. In the US, they are so productive that the government actually pays many farmers not to use all of their land.

A bigger problem isn't farming, but urban sprawl. In northern Virginia, from my grandmother's place in the country, it used to be a good 20 minute drive to the nearest city of any size. Now, according to the cousins up there, sprawl has reached fairly close by and is getting closer all the time. As it does so, it is consuming vast tracts of long time farm land. The developers have even been going so far as to bulldoze houses that were 200 years old because they did not fit in the new plan. Some of this is happening quite close to my grandmother's place now and I can only wonder if they are eventually going to tear down the old family home, no longer in the family unfortunately, but it does have a commanding view of the river.

South Alabama is also seeing a lot of growth and sprawl. There is also a new road coming very near my place. While this probably will bring some needed development, I worry that developers will come in and begin turning the pastoral scenes that people like into more soulless, cookie cutter subdivisions with fancy shops only the nouveau riche and terminally trendy would patronize. It is so sadly funny how these people want a "country place" but only get it by moving into a subdivision which has consumed that very country they desired, not to mention having to have their shops right next door too.

Urban sprawl is much more of a problem than land used for food production. In the West, we have already pretty much reached the limit of productive land. Sure there is other land around, but the problem is that much of it isn't particularly suited for agriculture. This is another thing that irritates me so much about all this farmland going to development. The time will come again when something happens to the Midwest, like another Dust Bowl, and we fill need farmland further afield to feed ourselves, let alone the world. Putting housing and shopping on that land is irreversible because people aren't going to give up their homes or easy access to shopping to let the land go back to farming. That's one thing I like about England and its green space laws, which protect farmland from development. Over here though it seems there is too much corruption between developers and politicians, to the point where some counties are growing far faster than services can keep up.

June 21, 2006

In a message dated 6/21/2006 2:45:45 AM Eastern Standard Time, drumthis2001@... writes:

Ah. The communists. No, I was just making the comparison of the horse alone. Basically, the people who are thinking they have rights don't really have them. Someone can say things inside social circles and get crucified for it if it's against the unified theory. It's quite an illusion that is going on in America. Corporations are the latest communists in a less outright fashion.

Corporations aren't Communist, they are Capitalist. Each system has its own flaws. Communism enforces misery on the masses in the name of equality, while Capitalism can allow the greedy to amass huge fortunes at the expense of the the many if they are not regulated. A corporation is like a living thing: it seeks to grow and expand and to do so it wants resources, including labor, for the least cost.

That is the problem today. Mnay corporations are either moving overseas or they are hiring immigrants, often illegals, who will work for less pay than citizens. In a strong sense, illegal immigrants are the new slaves: they work very cheap, they can't complain or they get turned over to the authorities and replaced, and they depress wages for everyone else.

Nothing new about this either though. It has happened around the world since time immemorial. However, in times past, the workers did force more concrete action than we are seeing today. First there were unions, which were formed in large part to keep people from taking the jobs of those who already had them. Then there were other labor laws or prohibitions on who could work or even live in a given location, like many northen and midwestern states passed laws against blacks moving in after the Civil War. The there is the infamous minimum wage law, which was passed to protect low wage whites from competition from blacks who would work for less money. The problem isn't blacks today, but the tide of a million plus illegals every year.

Now, as long as there is such cheap labor, corporations and business will use it. The reason is simple: if one firm pays each worker $10 per unit to make a product but another firm pays $2 per unit to make the same product, the second firm is at a distinct price advantage of the first and will probably drive the first out of business. That means the first will have to find some way to compete to stay alive. One option is the fire its existing, expenise work force and replace it with cheap labor. This is done rather a lot at the cost of increasing unemployed and forcing formerly well paid people to work behind a register somewhere.

We are supposed to have regulations that monitor these things. However, it seems there has long been too much money floating around the halls of power to get anything done about this immigration issue or the other labor problems. Political Correctness also gets in the way because it is so un PC to talk about this problem in realistic terms. Well, I do fear that the problem has been allowed to fester for so long it is probably going to lead to violence, just like so many other labor reform movements have in the past. Look back at the turn of the century and little before at all the violence that happened over the 8 hour work day and less than lethal factory working conditions. Then it was just workers vs. owners. This time it will be worker vs. worker.

PS. Personally I think this whole issue is a lot of rot. If Mexico uses its military to close its southern border and conducts regular internal sweeps for illegals and actually has laws restricting many jobs for Mexicans only, then they have no right whatsoever to complain about our wanting to secure our border with them.

June 21, 2006

>

> " Instead of being the caretakers of this lovely planet

> we've been given, we are instead going to breed until there is no

room

> left for anything else. "

It's not breeding that has done it. If people spread out over the earth

there would be plenty of room and then some. Living in cities causes

overcrowding and pollution.

But you're right, we're fouling our nest until garbage is found in the

middle of the pacific and other remote regions. Not a bad mood, just

anger at reality.

June 21, 2006

>

> " It isn't just deer, it is all life. All forms of life will continue

to

> expand as long as there is a food supply. Australia is having

tremendous problems

> with mice and rabbits which have no natural predators there. "

These things are usually because the ecosystem is out of balance. I

forget which animals were introduced into Australia that screwed

things up, but that's why they're having problems there. I think

that's where they introduced one animal that multiplied like crazy so

they introduced another animal to eat the other and then that animal

multiplied like crazy so they had two species out of control. Wolves

and mountain lions used to be the predators of deer but now their

numbers are drastically reduced.

I have killed 60 Japanese Beetles in just the last two weeks--they

are not supposed to be in the US and the birds here don't eat them.

In Japan, their birds do. They multiply like crazy here and eat the

heck out roses, wisteria and other plants.

June 21, 2006

Diatomaceous earth (prehistoric exoskeletons of insects) is used on lawns to get rid of bugs and possibly japanese beetles. It is silica basically that upon looking at it with a microscope looks like thousands of tiny jagged razors pointed in different directions which cause the bugs to bleed to death. It also can cause a 45 letter-long lung disease if inhaled so wear a mask. mikecarrie01 <mikecarrie01@...> wrote: >>"It isn't

just deer, it is all life. All forms of life will continue to > expand as long as there is a food supply. Australia is having tremendous problems > with mice and rabbits which have no natural predators there."These things are usually because the ecosystem is out of balance. I forget which animals were introduced into Australia that screwed things up, but that's why they're having problems there. I think that's where they introduced one animal that multiplied like crazy so they introduced another animal to eat the other and then that animal multiplied like crazy so they had two species out of control. Wolves and mountain lions used to be the predators of deer but now their numbers are drastically reduced.I have killed 60 Japanese Beetles in just the last two weeks--they are not supposed to be in the US and the birds here don't eat them. In Japan, their birds do. They multiply like crazy here and eat

the heck out roses, wisteria and other plants.

Sports Fantasy Football ’06 - Go with the leader. Start your league today!

June 22, 2006

I am like you. Half of me cares about everyone, but the other half

would be ecstatic is everyone died of the bird flu.

Tom

Administrator

Hey Everybody -

First time I've visited in awhile, probably won't stick around long,

just too busy. But after reading a few of the digests, I had to

wonder:

am I the only aspie who suffers from the following duality: one part

of me loves humanity while the other sees the world and considers

humanity as a cancer. Reading the posts on abortion, all I could think

was that it's a good thing that we kill ourselves off since there

aren't enough natural predators to do it for us. Seriously, at least

animals have enough built-in sense (instincts) not to use up all the

resources they need to survive, pollute the air and water, etc. Am I

the only one who sees this? As much as I hate war and violence, I'm

starting to see that humans don't have the self-discipline to keep

ourselves in check in any other way. Why abort your baby now when they

can be cannon fodder later?

Jill

June 22, 2006