Re: The real meaning of disillusioned WAS: disillusioned

July 26, 2006

My apologies for not posting more about that, but I did have distractions here and I really didn't know what to say. I don't know kids and I don't know the Canadian system. Here in the US you can visit a doctor and arrange for tests if you can find one who knows about AS. Insurance would probably cover it. Services though are probably just as troublesome to get. Schools seem to be putting most of their special budget into handling criminal children and severe special education cases that shouldn't be in regular public school but in specialized facilities. That leaves normal seeming kinds like those with AS sort of out of the loop. Unfortunately though, most of the US public school budget goes to fund the bureaucracy and not much for actual education.

July 26, 2006

ravenmagic2003 wrote:

> I would walk to the ends of the earth for my child and no one seems

> to give a hoot that my pain and struggles and difficulties are every

> bit as valid and important to talk about as 's pain and

> struggles and difficulties with his father.

>

> What is it with people? Am I perceived as being such a total b****

> in this forum that no one can fathom that perhaps I am a devastated

> Aspie in need of support and who is so overwhelmed by life that she

> feels there is no place for her either?

It is no wonder that you don't get the support you think you need. You

come here a moan and groan about how your world sucks but you give us no

clue as to what is actually going on. You post about a news article

regarding a boy with AS. You tell us nothing about who he is then when

we don't sympathize with your plight you lambaste us for not being

sympathetic. Then you finally tell us this is your son. What did you

expect from us? Did you expect us to be mind readers? Give us a break

already. You now demand sympathy from us when you never gave us the real

story.

gave us his story, you gave us a newspaper article with no

identifiers.

Ace

July 26, 2006

At 08:29 AM 7/26/2006, Raven wrote:

>You guys want a real definition of " disilllusioned " ?

>

>With the exception of Kate and Ender and who posted quiet

>posts publicly (albeit I'm uncertain if Kate and Ender knew that the

>child in the news story was my child or if they were just speaking

>generally with their sympathy) and a couple people who have

>communicated with me off-forum, no one else in *this* forum has

>posted anything about the living hell I've been going through

>lately. If I am mistaken, take me to task and I will publicly

>apologize because I am publicly lashing out....

No, Raven, I didn't know was your son, but I had seen a few

post about him and looked at his web page... He seems to be a good

kid and reminds me of myself at that age... Long before AS was

codified... (I'm 54) back then I was just a smart kid that didn't

relate to other kids or people in general... Teachers thought I was

too smart and wanted me to " dumb down " to be like the other kids...

I remember the pain of not fitting in and wanting to be like the

other kids... I wanted to get out of the world too to stop the

hurt... I still feel that way... and as best as I can figure I always

will, because it's part of me... I think that is starting to

become aware of aware that he is in a similar position and it is

depressing... I was a bit older (early teens) when I began to

understand it... What I did was accept that I wasn't like other kids

and do mine own thing (as best I could) ignore the others...

Eventually I get a bit of grudging respect as the other guys realized

my " oddness " could at times being of service...

And that is what my life has been based on solving problems for

people by seeing the problem differently than most people... If

you're good enough at it you don't need to pretend to be like the

normals very much of the time...

Hearing about resonated with me more because I have been very

down for a while and wanting the world to go away...

I'm not sure if any thing I've said is helpful... It's tough to grow

up as an outsider but it can be done...

Ender

July 26, 2006

Ace, That should make no difference. If you had read some of the previous posts you could tell that Raven has been having a difficult time with her child, she has mentioned it before, and that things haven't been easy for her. This has been the crux of her posts recently. Very few people in this forum have showed any compassion, I can understand us not being able to show compasion for the outside world, not many of us have been showed it in the outside world but here is different, we are supposed to be supportive and helpful to each other, to understand if nothing else. This child whether he is Ravens son or not, is one of us. If we can't show compasion and try to understand each other and help

each other, I don't know where we are going to be able to find these things. Its really sad, and shows the sorry state the world is in when we as a group of people that know what it means to feel alone int he world and have no one understand us, turn our backs on one of our own. Beth acsnag@... wrote: ravenmagic2003 wrote:> I would walk to the ends of the earth for

my child and no one seems> to give a hoot that my pain and struggles and difficulties are every> bit as valid and important to talk about as 's pain and> struggles and difficulties with his father.> > What is it with people? Am I perceived as being such a total b****> in this forum that no one can fathom that perhaps I am a devastated> Aspie in need of support and who is so overwhelmed by life that she> feels there is no place for her either?It is no wonder that you don't get the support you think you need. You come here a moan and groan about how your world sucks but you give us no clue as to what is actually going on. You post about a news article regarding a boy with AS. You tell us nothing about who he is then when we don't sympathize with your plight you lambaste us for not being sympathetic. Then you finally tell us this is your son. What did you expect from us? Did you

expect us to be mind readers? Give us a break already. You now demand sympathy from us when you never gave us the real story. gave us his story, you gave us a newspaper article with no identifiers.Ace

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July 26, 2006

Hi Ender, Yes is a wonderful kid, and Raven is a fantastic mother, who is going through hell right now at the hands of the Canadian healthcare system, who don't understand logic. Your posts have been wonderful, infact after reading the last one I told Raven I thought she should print it out and share it with . I just wanted to thank you for being a part of our forum and for sharing your wisdom. I always enjoy reading your posts, I may not say it or respond to them often, but I do enjoy them. You are able to put the things that I feel into words that are too difficult for me to try to write about without ranting. So thank you for being you I appreciate you. BethEnder <ender@...> wrote: At 08:29 AM 7/26/2006, Raven wrote:>You guys want a real definition of "disilllusioned"?>>With the exception of Kate and Ender and who posted quiet>posts publicly (albeit I'm uncertain if Kate and Ender knew that the>child in the news story was my child or if they were just speaking>generally with their sympathy) and a couple people who have>communicated with me off-forum, no one else in *this* forum has>posted anything about the living hell I've been going through>lately. If I am mistaken, take me to task and I will publicly>apologize because I am publicly lashing out....No, Raven,

I didn't know was your son, but I had seen a few post about him and looked at his web page... He seems to be a good kid and reminds me of myself at that age... Long before AS was codified... (I'm 54) back then I was just a smart kid that didn't relate to other kids or people in general... Teachers thought I was too smart and wanted me to "dumb down" to be like the other kids...I remember the pain of not fitting in and wanting to be like the other kids... I wanted to get out of the world too to stop the hurt... I still feel that way... and as best as I can figure I always will, because it's part of me... I think that is starting to become aware of aware that he is in a similar position and it is depressing... I was a bit older (early teens) when I began to understand it... What I did was accept that I wasn't like other kids and do mine own thing (as best I could) ignore the others... Eventually I

get a bit of grudging respect as the other guys realized my "oddness" could at times being of service...And that is what my life has been based on solving problems for people by seeing the problem differently than most people... If you're good enough at it you don't need to pretend to be like the normals very much of the time...Hearing about resonated with me more because I have been very down for a while and wanting the world to go away...I'm not sure if any thing I've said is helpful... It's tough to grow up as an outsider but it can be done...Ender

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July 26, 2006

>

> " Very few people in this forum have showed any compassion, I can

understand us not being able to show compasion for the outside world,

not many of us have been showed it in the outside world but here is

different, we are supposed to be supportive and helpful to each other,

to understand if nothing else. This child whether he is Ravens son or

not, is one of us. If we can't show compasion and try to understand

each other and help each other, I don't know where we are going to be

able to find these things. Its really sad, and shows the sorry state

the world is in when we as a group of people that know what it means to

feel alone int he world and have no one understand us, turn our backs

on one of our own. "

A few of us have expressed concern on the ChristianAspie forum, in

addition to the ones here.

July 26, 2006

Re:

> ... Kate and Ender and who posted quiet

> posts publicly (albeit I'm uncertain if Kate and Ender knew that the

> child in the news story was my child or if they were just speaking

> generally with their sympathy)

About halfway through the story, I figured it out.

Kate Gladstone

July 26, 2006

Ace put it bluntly, but he has a point. The post read as though it were an article about a child with AS. While it might have dinged a distant bell, I had a few other things take center stage. My family is having grandparents who need help. We know the solution, it's just working out a few things. I'm not down in FL with my parents because I would be in the way. Now then, back to . Somehow I doubt being at home when he's actually attempting suicide rather than simply talking about it is a good idea. I also feel that 's therapist, if he has one, made the decision, right? Yes, it's tough. Restraints, btw, necessary when patient is a danger to self or others. Your son just might try to slit his wrists, per se, and use the blade to stab hospital workers. ravenmagic2003 <ravenmagic2003@...> wrote: You guys want a real definition of "disilllusioned"? With the exception of Kate and Ender and who posted quiet posts publicly (albeit I'm uncertain if Kate and Ender knew that the child in the news story was my child or if they were just speaking generally with their sympathy) and a couple people who have communicated with me off-forum, no one else in *this* forum has posted anything about the living hell I've been going through lately. If I am mistaken, take me to task and I will publicly apologize because I am publicly lashing out.Ask me where my child is going this morning and if you would rather just

imagine, then I suspect you won't be too far off the mark considering he has been in hospital for over three weeks because of suicide attempts.Not to diss , but there were scads of posts about 's father and his health issues. So many people offered opinions and suggestions and ideas and advice and such. And has difficulties with his father.I would walk to the ends of the earth for my child and no one seems to give a hoot that my pain and struggles and difficulties are every bit as valid and important to talk about as 's pain and struggles and difficulties with his father.What is it with people? Am I perceived as being such a total b**** in this forum that no one can fathom that perhaps I am a devastated Aspie in need of support and who is so overwhelmed by life that she feels there is no place for her either?Is this what my world looks like .... NTs that don't give a

rat's ass about this situation and Aspies that don't care because it's just too much effort to care about my situation mostly because it doesn't really affect them?Think about it ... this could be YOUR child (if you have one or plan to have one or have thought of ever having one)!I am feeling extreme anger and disillusionment with this community because when I needed the support of my fellow Aspies, my fellow Aspies acted just like the non-Aspies in my real world.Thank you. I needed to feel I had a place I could go where people would understand this pain and where people would at least care enough to offer ideas, insight, suggestions, advice, something. Instead, I found a place filled with Aspies who -- it feels like to me -- chose to step around the white elephant sitting in the middle of the livingroom.So don't worry ... my white elephant and I are leaving the room and I really don't care

what any of you think of me after this post. You didn't care enough to let me know what you were thinking BEFORE this post so I don't care enough to let what you think of me matter AFTER this post.I apologize in advance if this post 'upsets' anyone but you know how it is ... oh wait! no you don't! No one bothered to find out how it is!RavenIf you love something, set it free! So it is with books. See what I mean atwww.bookcrossing.com/friend/nheckoblogcritics.orghttp://notesfromnancy.blogspot.com Heckofreelance proofreadernancygailus@...

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July 27, 2006

Raven,

I am sorry. I went to his web page and read everything on it. I

showed it to my kids and wanted to write to him. I have seen my

husband try to take his life but I know it doesn't compare with your

child. I do care and am sorry that I expressed my stress over petty

crap when it's really my Mom's cancer that has me tied up in knots.

Your anger is warrented and I think I deserve to feel like the jacka**

I am.

Kim

> to give a hoot that my pain and struggles and difficulties are every

> bit as valid and important to talk about

July 27, 2006

Kim, You don't seem like a jackass at all. The only reason you shouldn't be stressed is because you shouldn't have to take care of other grownups more than they care about themselves. My brother slit his wrists a couple weeks ago and almost died. It doesn't really make me want to get out there and help him simply because he'll argue at a brick wall. He's visiting the family, gambling, on drugs, has problems with alcohol and bla bla bla bla bla bla. He has to learn how to deal with it without dragging other people down. He's 25 so that means he's responsible for himself. Kim <6emini@...> wrote: Raven,I am sorry. I went to his web page and read everything on it. I showed it to my kids and wanted to write to him. I have seen my husband try to take his life but I know it doesn't compare with your child. I do care and am sorry that I expressed my stress over petty crap when it's really my Mom's cancer that has me tied up in knots. Your anger is warrented and I think I deserve to feel like the jacka** I am.Kim> to give a hoot that my pain and struggles and difficulties are every > bit as valid and important to talk about

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July 27, 2006

On 26 Jul 2006 ravenmagic2003 wrote:

> With the exception of Kate and Ender and who posted quiet

> posts publicly (albeit I'm uncertain if Kate and Ender knew that the

> child in the news story was my child or if they were just speaking

> generally with their sympathy)

Then it would follow that at least some people didn't make the

connection either, and did not make the connection between the

news story and Raven's personal experiences.

The posts about 's father are a good example. There,

people knew about the events and those who felt they knew how to

offer support responded. They wouldn't have responsed the same

way if this were presented as a news story, in part because

there would be nobody to respond to.

Obviously, Raven's parting comment wasn't intended to indicate

that we " should have known " about a situation by reading between

the lines of list posts. Nevertheless, I'm a bit puzzled about

the comments because they suggest in part that we really did

know but also suggests that the people who responded may not

have known.

- s

July 27, 2006

Ace wrot: " It is no wonder that you don't get the support you think

you need. You come here a moan and groan about how your world

sucks ... <snip> ...

I very rarely moan and groan about anything on the message boards or

in real life. I have, however, posted at length about my child on

more than one occasion, I have posted previous articles (the full

page bio done in June 2005; his search for his long lost friend

throughout February and March of which there were several news

articles especially because the story went NATIONAL; etc.) and more

(his website, et al). Furthermore, I have posted in THIS forum of

the difficulties with my child and if you would just take the time

to scroll through my posts over the last couple of months, you would

know that. But Ace, you don't do those sorts of things. No, you

just look for MY posts that you can jump on and ride for all their

worth in a vicious, attacking fashion. " Oh, there's Raven and it

looks like she's anwering in a way that leaves the door open for me

to be a pompous a$$, " Ace thinks to himself and so he posts some

ridiculous pap of a response in the hopes that he can make Raven

look like a lesser person. YOUR thoughts, advice, suggestions,

etc., are not requested because all YOU ever do wherein I am

concerned is to attempt to marginalize and negate any good I add to

this forum. Get over yourself, Ace. Anyone who has followed my

posts -- even for a brief period of time -- knows who I am and who

my child is and what sorts of things my child accomplishes and now,

how impossible life is for him. And believe it or not, it's people

like you who make his life impossible because they think that

slamming people is the best way of showing how special THEY are.

You're special all right, Ace, but not in that warm fuzzy way you

think you are.

Raven

July 27, 2006

wrote: " Somehow I doubt being at home when he's actually

attempting suicide rather than simply talking about it is a good

idea. I also feel that 's therapist, if he has one, made the

decision, right? "

Actually, , since his grandfather died last November, NO ONE

has been listening to ME. The psychologist was wrong; the

psychiatrist was wrong; the social worker was wrong; the therapists

were wrong; the pediatrician was wrong; the ER nurses and physicians

were wrong; Children's Aid was wrong (yes, I tried that route in the

hopes they would help me secure what this child needed).

Everyone kept sending him home after each attempt. I have posted

about this in the past in this forum and in a couple of the other

FAM forums.

The person who made the right decision was ME! *I* had to do all

the fighting over the many months otherwise that child would be DEAD

right now and he may not make it even at this point.

wrote: " Restraints, btw, necessary when patient is a danger

to self or others. Your son just might try to slit his wrists, per

se, and use the blade to stab hospital workers. "

There are procedures that must be followed when restraints are used

and these procedures were not followed at all. There are procedures

that must be followed when restraints are removed and these

procedures were not followed at all. And restraints such as a four

point restraints are, by law, to be used as a last resort and only

until the behaviour that required the restraints has subsided. It

is not to be used as punishment or to be used as a threat.

As for danger to the staff re: blades ... that's just not something

that would be of interest to . He has more important things to

do than hurt OTHER people. He wants to hurt HIMSELF. He has proven

that repeatedly.

And while I am sorry you are going through difficulties, your

comment that regarding my lack of info is misguided. I have posted

quite a bit over the years with regards to my child (and myself by

virtue of being his mother)so this is not something that came out of

the blue, dropped willynilly into the forum without background. And

I have posted in the last few weeks of the troubles going on with

him.

Raven

July 27, 2006

Stan wrote: " Obviously, Raven's parting comment wasn't intended to

indicate that we " should have known " about a situation by reading

between the lines of list posts. Nevertheless, I'm a bit puzzled

about the comments because they suggest in part that we really did

know but also suggests that the people who responded may not have

known. "

Yes, there are those who 'may not have known' even when responding

only because of the manner in which they responded. Kate joined the

forum at the beginning of the year and therefore would not have been

aware of what has been posted in the past about . She may not

have taken notice of the links to the news stories in February and

March of this year. However, she posted a quiet post of empathy and

I acknowledged that quiet post because it was the right thing to

do ... acknowledge what she had posted. I was unsure as to whether

Ender was in the know because his posts, while deep, are not of

frequent nature. However, others who have been actively posting in

the forums had access to all this information about .

In June 2005, I posted the first of the stories of and made it

clear that he was my child. Tom put that story in the FILES

(http://f1.grp.fs.com/v1/0LjIRNU12rLXsOCj9EKXyrXJjIIDDDzccxQtjr3

D2bP-5mqqpWKQIR5ujTrSL02Q5-4ZLU1jsD5T2QVe-ljoLA/Articles/This%20Is%

20%20Without%20The%20Net) with an additional note that this was

my son. The stories of his search for his long lost friend from

kindergarten were also posted in this forum and I made the point of

underscoring that this was my child. People responded to those

stories posted, making it clear they knew this was my child.

So while some would have no reason to make the connection, many did

and it is in this that the disillusionment began.

Raven

July 29, 2006

bipolar ADHD? Two different things last time I looked. Let's see, he was engaged to someone. She got a boyfriend knowing she was going to marry another? Not that what your brother did is okay, but something got screwy.nick <drumthis2001@...> wrote: It doesn't hurt me really. I don't have a son that is 7 years old and is already facing suicidal depression. I haven't really kept a close relationship with my brother for the simple fact that he's an opportunistic sociopath. He beat his fiance's boyfriend to a

bloody pulp in her bedroom after breaking into the house, doped on cocaine. He probably thought he didn't need another record along with his D.U.I. and feigned suicide to plead temporary insanity if the charges were to be brought against him. Either he has bipolar ADHD or he is a sociopath. I don't really care at this point because he causes everyone to age faster when they're around him for any length of time. ravenmagic2003 <ravenmagic2003 (DOT) ca> wrote: Nick wrote: "My brother slit his wrists a couple weeks ago and almost died. It doesn't really make me want to get out there and help him simply because he'll argue at a brick wall. He's visiting the family, gambling, on drugs, has problems with alcohol and bla bla bla bla bla bla. He has to learn how to deal with it without dragging other people down.

He's 25 so that means he's responsible for himself."It still hurts though, Nick, and I am sorry you're going through this as well.Raven Talk is cheap. Use Messenger to make PC-to-Phone calls. Great rates starting at 1¢/min. If you love something, set it free! So it is with books. See what I mean atwww.bookcrossing.com/friend/nheckoblogcritics.orghttp://notesfromnancy.blogspot.com Heckofreelance proofreadernancygailus@...

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August 3, 2006

Ace,

Raven has been posting articles about her son for a year or two now but

I think you joined after those articles had been posted. She posted

this most recent one with the understanding that long time members

ought to know who he was.

Tom

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