Re: When to discipline, keep to schedule and when to not?

[Guest guest]

Hi, some quick thoughts and maybe not much help.

With possible Aspergers thrown in and not knowing how much this

aspect relates to his need for " routine & structure " , this may be the

most confusing area to tackle/figure out. Some Aspies really need a

daily routine, structure to each day. My son (18) is luckily

affected very mildly in this area, but I know of others who really

need the routine and no change/variation. Also some really like to

finish one task before moving on to another if they're enjoying it,

whereas if it has no real interest to them, prompts to stay on task.

On the other side, if this is OCD that is causing it, then she needs

to work on messing up his routine. So that's why it's a tough call.

Has she tried a written checklist/schedule for each a.m.? A reward

system for getting ready, things done within timeframe? A timer

helps some children. Plus prompts/reminders ( " 20 minutes to do

this, " 10 min left, 5 min left " ). She might need to change around

the morning routine they have now (what is done 1st, 2nd...).

Breakfast might need to come first, then getting dressed, clothes in

hamper, make bed...; or make bed, breakfast....

Rewards can be earned (points, stickers to add up towards something)

or be " instant. " It might be simple like a food/drink treat, a bit

of extra TV or game time, staying up an extra 15-30 minutes...just

saying it doesn't have to mean $$ involved.

She's probably tried all the above, LOL. But nothing will work

overnight, has to become a routine/habit.

OCD stuff - you can't work on all the OC behaviors at the same time,

too overwhelming for many. So pick one or two or three behaviors to

work on, ignore the rest for now. Try to limit number of times a day

he can wash his hands, aim for less times by the end of the week,

etc. Try to choose what seems easier to work on, less anxiety-

causing. Oh, and reward the " effort of trying " too.

Also if he doesn't know much about OCD, there's some great books for

children that she could read to him. He needs to understand why they

are trying to boss back/mess up OCD.

Well, things to do, just some quick thoughts & typing! Keep us

updated and ask questions anytime!

single mom, 3 sons

, 18, with OCD, dysgraphia and Aspergers

>

> Hi Everyone: I am new to this board and am the Aunt of a 8 year

old

> who has been diagnosed with OCD, possible Aspbers and non-specific

> Anxiety disorder. My SIL is beyond the end of her rope. They have

a 6

> year old daughter who is by all accounts a manipulative nightmare.

[Guest guest]

Hi, some quick thoughts and maybe not much help.

With possible Aspergers thrown in and not knowing how much this

aspect relates to his need for " routine & structure " , this may be the

most confusing area to tackle/figure out. Some Aspies really need a

daily routine, structure to each day. My son (18) is luckily

affected very mildly in this area, but I know of others who really

need the routine and no change/variation. Also some really like to

finish one task before moving on to another if they're enjoying it,

whereas if it has no real interest to them, prompts to stay on task.

On the other side, if this is OCD that is causing it, then she needs

to work on messing up his routine. So that's why it's a tough call.

Has she tried a written checklist/schedule for each a.m.? A reward

system for getting ready, things done within timeframe? A timer

helps some children. Plus prompts/reminders ( " 20 minutes to do

this, " 10 min left, 5 min left " ). She might need to change around

the morning routine they have now (what is done 1st, 2nd...).

Breakfast might need to come first, then getting dressed, clothes in

hamper, make bed...; or make bed, breakfast....

Rewards can be earned (points, stickers to add up towards something)

or be " instant. " It might be simple like a food/drink treat, a bit

of extra TV or game time, staying up an extra 15-30 minutes...just

saying it doesn't have to mean $$ involved.

She's probably tried all the above, LOL. But nothing will work

overnight, has to become a routine/habit.

OCD stuff - you can't work on all the OC behaviors at the same time,

too overwhelming for many. So pick one or two or three behaviors to

work on, ignore the rest for now. Try to limit number of times a day

he can wash his hands, aim for less times by the end of the week,

etc. Try to choose what seems easier to work on, less anxiety-

causing. Oh, and reward the " effort of trying " too.

Also if he doesn't know much about OCD, there's some great books for

children that she could read to him. He needs to understand why they

are trying to boss back/mess up OCD.

Well, things to do, just some quick thoughts & typing! Keep us

updated and ask questions anytime!

single mom, 3 sons

, 18, with OCD, dysgraphia and Aspergers

>

> Hi Everyone: I am new to this board and am the Aunt of a 8 year

old

> who has been diagnosed with OCD, possible Aspbers and non-specific

> Anxiety disorder. My SIL is beyond the end of her rope. They have

a 6

> year old daughter who is by all accounts a manipulative nightmare.

[Guest guest]

Thanks for the responses. So from what I am reading you should have

expectations and a schedule. Not sure I believe he has aspbergers or

not myself. He is a super nervous kids. Can't play Uno cause he can't

choose a card to play. I think they have a mix of total lack of

parenting skills - cause the non OCD daughter is also not doing what

she is told and she doesn't have a disorder although my SIL is

beginning to see OCD everywhere. I think we all have tendancies in

certain areas of our lives.

My parents moved down to PA for a month this past Jan and were able to

establish bedtime routine. Yes it took two hours to get the OCD

newphew to bed but he got to bed but they didn't allow screaming or

hissy fits. Just gentle consistenct forward moving toward the

necessary goal of going to sleep. AFter 4 weeks it got shorter - he

seems to be able to deal with consistent known expectations.

I think my SIL gave up on homeschool for the rest of spring because she

can't handle it. The kids were learning and doing 3-4 hours of lessons

a day just fine. Also they get up and do what needs to be done

including eat etc and get where they need to go for religious services

once a week. So why does it work on 1 day but not the other 6. This is

where SIL is confused. I can't exactly say anything about their

parenting skills.

I am concerned with my niece because she is a nightmare. She gives her

parents heck when they go out (they almost never do) or even if one

parent leaves to run an errand. My mom said as soon as her parents

were out the door she would switch it off and become miss cutey. How

do you deal with one OCD child and another who isn't. Parenting is

hard enough never mind these factors.

Thanks for your help.

>

> I guess my advice is to break down the chores etc. in one each day,

> and work on one thing getting accomplished instead of trying to do a

> bunch of stuff. EX: Can she get her son, out of bed, have

> breakfast, one simple chore/responsiblity, and then go on to the

> schooling if necess. Even that could be very simplified, one paper.

> Boy, if they could get some help from Super Nanny, that would be

> great. I think she has a book out, Jo Frost. If not, the Nanny 911

> people do. Mom is just going to have to take a step back and focus

> on the bare minimum. As for homeschooling, I did it for 8 years. I

> did push my dd quite hard when we started. She did well and still

> does well but that is not and was not a necessity. Part of

> homeschooling is going at your own pace.

> Hope this helps.

>

>

[Guest guest]

I guess my advice is to break down the chores etc. in one each day,

and work on one thing getting accomplished instead of trying to do a

bunch of stuff. EX: Can she get her son, out of bed, have

breakfast, one simple chore/responsiblity, and then go on to the

schooling if necess. Even that could be very simplified, one paper.

Boy, if they could get some help from Super Nanny, that would be

great. I think she has a book out, Jo Frost. If not, the Nanny 911

people do. Mom is just going to have to take a step back and focus

on the bare minimum. As for homeschooling, I did it for 8 years. I

did push my dd quite hard when we started. She did well and still

does well but that is not and was not a necessity. Part of

homeschooling is going at your own pace.

Hope this helps.

[Guest guest]

he seems to be able to deal with consistent known expectations

That is sort of *key* with autism. Why a schedule or routine can be

important. Decision-making is also a weak area I think. Is in my

son, which has nothing to do with OCD (doubting disease). Breaking

down instructions is also important sometimes. You can't necessarily

say " clean your room " as they (Aspie) can't just start (decision).

Tell them what to do first (where to put also), then the next task,

next....

Used to drive me a bit crazy that couldn't make a decision

sometimes, some situations.

Bedtime - that can be tricky also. Problem could be just a typical

kid's need for their " bedtime routine " (LOL, I have mine) or some OCD

playing a part or the Aspie structure-need.

With OCD or Aspergers/autism, tears could start either way if

something changes/is wrong, say at bedtime. But with OCD routines,

kids generally end up hating that they HAVE to do this

ritual/compulsion or have bad thoughts running thru their head,

whereas with a kid's/Aspie routine, it brings comfort. (confusing, I

know)

My son used to have to get in bed the " right way. " If he didn't get

in (or on) the " right " way he had to get up and do it again. And

again & again. This was his OCD. He hated it. Right now he deals

with bad thoughts at bedtime. Lack of distractions at that time

too. So bedtime is hard. (he's 18) However, he still may have a

routine he likes to do at bedtime, like shower, then read, then brush

teeth....

It'll take time and reading about OCD and Aspergers to pick up

suggestions to try. Understanding what prompted a meltdown or some

mouthy answer or refusal, etc., can help to eventually keep them from

happening or help on how to respond. But what she is *sure* is OCD,

(like handwashing, afraid of germs, etc.) she can work on by trying

to have him " wait " before washing (even 5 seconds longer) or if he's

washing 20x a day, shoot for 19x a day the next 5 days.... REWARD

the effort/trying with praise or prizes. O

Oh, speaking of praise, and always praise for trying to boss back

OCD, but OCD or not: thanking and praising or complimenting anything

you can (that " catch them being good " ) and withholding criticism or

corrections (if you find yourself doing that a lot: color within the

lines, not that way/this way...) can help over the weeks too.

Again, quick thoughts.

> Thanks for the responses. So from what I am reading you should

have

> expectations and a schedule. Not sure I believe he has aspbergers

or

> not myself. He is a super nervous kids. Can't play Uno cause he

can't

> choose a card to play. I think they have a mix of total lack of

> parenting skills - cause the non OCD daughter is also not doing

[Guest guest]

Thanks so much for this information. I tend to be very analytical and I am not

living this day to day other than my concern. This really helps me understand

my SIL confusion. My brother has changed his work week so he can be home on

Tues/Thurs in order to give his wife some relief. I am going to share this

information. Maybe they can try the instead of 20X times 19X times. They need

hope so desperately. AT least they are over the anti-medication feelings. I

understood all the neurobiochemical stuff I read but I explained it to my SIL

that its like baking a cake - if you forget the sugar or even small amount of an

ingredient its not a cake. In that way the brain is just having a problem and

if the meds help suppress an " ingredient " or provide one then that is okay.

No one in my family really knows what to do as we are kind of far away. My

parents are thinking of moving to PA. They will both be 70 and I am not sure

this would ultimately be all that helpful. (smile).

Thanks again. I get the OCD /Autism thing better now.

Shirley/ME

<@...> wrote:

he seems to be able to deal with consistent known expectations

That is sort of *key* with autism. Why a schedule or routine can be

important. Decision-making is also a weak area I think. Is in my

son, which has nothing to do with OCD (doubting disease). Breaking

down instructions is also important sometimes. You can't necessarily

say " clean your room " as they (Aspie) can't just start (decision).

Tell them what to do first (where to put also), then the next task,

next....

Used to drive me a bit crazy that couldn't make a decision

sometimes, some situations.

Bedtime - that can be tricky also. Problem could be just a typical

kid's need for their " bedtime routine " (LOL, I have mine) or some OCD

playing a part or the Aspie structure-need.

With OCD or Aspergers/autism, tears could start either way if

something changes/is wrong, say at bedtime. But with OCD routines,

kids generally end up hating that they HAVE to do this

ritual/compulsion or have bad thoughts running thru their head,

whereas with a kid's/Aspie routine, it brings comfort. (confusing, I

know)

My son used to have to get in bed the " right way. " If he didn't get

in (or on) the " right " way he had to get up and do it again. And

again & again. This was his OCD. He hated it. Right now he deals

with bad thoughts at bedtime. Lack of distractions at that time

too. So bedtime is hard. (he's 18) However, he still may have a

routine he likes to do at bedtime, like shower, then read, then brush

teeth....

It'll take time and reading about OCD and Aspergers to pick up

suggestions to try. Understanding what prompted a meltdown or some

mouthy answer or refusal, etc., can help to eventually keep them from

happening or help on how to respond. But what she is *sure* is OCD,

(like handwashing, afraid of germs, etc.) she can work on by trying

to have him " wait " before washing (even 5 seconds longer) or if he's

washing 20x a day, shoot for 19x a day the next 5 days.... REWARD

the effort/trying with praise or prizes. O

Oh, speaking of praise, and always praise for trying to boss back

OCD, but OCD or not: thanking and praising or complimenting anything

you can (that " catch them being good " ) and withholding criticism or

corrections (if you find yourself doing that a lot: color within the

lines, not that way/this way...) can help over the weeks too.

Again, quick thoughts.

> Thanks for the responses. So from what I am reading you should

have

> expectations and a schedule. Not sure I believe he has aspbergers

or

> not myself. He is a super nervous kids. Can't play Uno cause he

can't

> choose a card to play. I think they have a mix of total lack of

> parenting skills - cause the non OCD daughter is also not doing

---------------------------------

Don't be flakey. Get for Mobile and

always stay connected to friends.

[Guest guest]

Hi and welcome!

I have a 12 year old daughter with ADHD, OCD, serious learning disability,

fine motor skills deficits, and ruling out bipolar (I disagree with that

diagnosis). My house is a disaster. Many people may not agree, but I just

threw chores out the window. Some of my own, included! My daughter has to

clean her guniea pig cage once a week. Other than picking up her clothes and

other things off the floor and taking her dirty dishes to the kitchen (which I

have to remind her to do, but she has to do it as soon as I say it because I'm

getting ready to clean and I can't guarantee she'll know where her things are

when I'm done!), that's pretty much it. I gave up on making beds a long time

ago, including my own (though hubby does it because he can't stand getting into

an unmade bed).

Homework is taking my daughter forever due to her learning diability. It

wasn't so bad last year, but she started middle school this year. If I had her

vacuum, etc, like I had her do last year, she'd never get done with homework or

be able to play with her friends. I feel like she needs that time to socialize,

especially since she's getting picked on at school.

We do have check lists. One for AM and one for PM. We are about to revise

them with her input. THat way I can say, YOU were in agreement with this. I

gues those are chores in a way, but they are personal chores. Bedtime routines

(which aren't a problem with her) and morning routines (which also aren't an

issue.)

Laurie

chinn4me <chinn4me@...> wrote:

Thanks for the responses. So from what I am reading you should have

expectations and a schedule. Not sure I believe he has aspbergers or

not myself. He is a super nervous kids. Can't play Uno cause he can't

choose a card to play. I think they have a mix of total lack of

parenting skills - cause the non OCD daughter is also not doing what

she is told and she doesn't have a disorder although my SIL is

beginning to see OCD everywhere. I think we all have tendancies in

certain areas of our lives.

My parents moved down to PA for a month this past Jan and were able to

establish bedtime routine. Yes it took two hours to get the OCD

newphew to bed but he got to bed but they didn't allow screaming or

hissy fits. Just gentle consistenct forward moving toward the

necessary goal of going to sleep. AFter 4 weeks it got shorter - he

seems to be able to deal with consistent known expectations.

I think my SIL gave up on homeschool for the rest of spring because she

can't handle it. The kids were learning and doing 3-4 hours of lessons

a day just fine. Also they get up and do what needs to be done

including eat etc and get where they need to go for religious services

once a week. So why does it work on 1 day but not the other 6. This is

where SIL is confused. I can't exactly say anything about their

parenting skills.

I am concerned with my niece because she is a nightmare. She gives her

parents heck when they go out (they almost never do) or even if one

parent leaves to run an errand. My mom said as soon as her parents

were out the door she would switch it off and become miss cutey. How

do you deal with one OCD child and another who isn't. Parenting is

hard enough never mind these factors.

Thanks for your help.

>

> I guess my advice is to break down the chores etc. in one each day,

> and work on one thing getting accomplished instead of trying to do a

> bunch of stuff. EX: Can she get her son, out of bed, have

> breakfast, one simple chore/responsiblity, and then go on to the

> schooling if necess. Even that could be very simplified, one paper.

> Boy, if they could get some help from Super Nanny, that would be

> great. I think she has a book out, Jo Frost. If not, the Nanny 911

> people do. Mom is just going to have to take a step back and focus

> on the bare minimum. As for homeschooling, I did it for 8 years. I

> did push my dd quite hard when we started. She did well and still

> does well but that is not and was not a necessity. Part of

> homeschooling is going at your own pace.

> Hope this helps.

>

>

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[Guest guest]

<<Right now he deals

with bad thoughts at bedtime. Lack of distractions at that time

too. So bedtime is hard.>>

Bad thought stuff here too, with my Josh. Sooooo, I can

totally relate. No distractions equals more time to focus on the

anxiety and repetitive thoughts. . .Which has evolved to avoiding

bedtime. Sometimes it is 3:30 am before he makes it to bed. We are

fighting to try to get some control over this, but it is a fight. If

I don't let him sleep in and get the rest he needs, the OCD is worse.

It becomes a wicked cycle. Trying to get enough medication to calm

the anxiety and quiet the thoughts, but not too much so that the manic

stuff flares back up. Also trying to keep enough of the angst there

that he will be willing to work when we find the elusive therapist.

Hard to find that balance.

Wretched, wretched OCD!

BJ

he seems to be able to deal with consistent known expectations

>

> That is sort of *key* with autism. Why a schedule or routine can be

> important. Decision-making is also a weak area I think. Is in my

> son, which has nothing to do with OCD (doubting disease). Breaking

> down instructions is also important sometimes. You can't necessarily

> say " clean your room " as they (Aspie) can't just start (decision).

> Tell them what to do first (where to put also), then the next task,

> next....

>

> Used to drive me a bit crazy that couldn't make a decision

> sometimes, some situations.

>

> Bedtime - that can be tricky also. Problem could be just a typical

> kid's need for their " bedtime routine " (LOL, I have mine) or some OCD

> playing a part or the Aspie structure-need.

>

> With OCD or Aspergers/autism, tears could start either way if

> something changes/is wrong, say at bedtime. But with OCD routines,

> kids generally end up hating that they HAVE to do this

> ritual/compulsion or have bad thoughts running thru their head,

> whereas with a kid's/Aspie routine, it brings comfort. (confusing, I

> know)

>

> My son used to have to get in bed the " right way. " If he didn't get

> in (or on) the " right " way he had to get up and do it again. And

> again & again. This was his OCD. He hated it. Right now he deals

> with bad thoughts at bedtime. Lack of distractions at that time

> too. So bedtime is hard. (he's 18) However, he still may have a

> routine he likes to do at bedtime, like shower, then read, then brush

> teeth....

>

> It'll take time and reading about OCD and Aspergers to pick up

> suggestions to try. Understanding what prompted a meltdown or some

> mouthy answer or refusal, etc., can help to eventually keep them from

> happening or help on how to respond. But what she is *sure* is OCD,

> (like handwashing, afraid of germs, etc.) she can work on by trying

> to have him " wait " before washing (even 5 seconds longer) or if he's

> washing 20x a day, shoot for 19x a day the next 5 days.... REWARD

> the effort/trying with praise or prizes. O

>

> Oh, speaking of praise, and always praise for trying to boss back

> OCD, but OCD or not: thanking and praising or complimenting anything

> you can (that " catch them being good " ) and withholding criticism or

> corrections (if you find yourself doing that a lot: color within the

> lines, not that way/this way...) can help over the weeks too.

>

> Again, quick thoughts.

>

>

>

>

>

>

> > Thanks for the responses. So from what I am reading you should

> have

> > expectations and a schedule. Not sure I believe he has aspbergers

> or

> > not myself. He is a super nervous kids. Can't play Uno cause he

> can't

> > choose a card to play. I think they have a mix of total lack of

> > parenting skills - cause the non OCD daughter is also not doing

>

[Guest guest]

Shirley - I really like your " neurobiochemical, baking a cake " way of

explaining. Might have to borrow that sometime!

>AT least they are over the anti-medication feelings. I understood

all the neurobiochemical stuff I read but I explained it to my SIL

that its like baking a cake - if you forget the sugar or even small

amount of an ingredient its not a cake. In that way the brain is just

having a problem and if the meds help suppress an " ingredient " or

provide one then that is okay.

>

[Guest guest]

" My brother and his wife can't figure out how have some sort of

control in their home.....They are so afraid of stressing newphew out

that they don't have any control anymore......Worried Aunt in Maine. "

I agree with what everyone else said about schedules being critical.

Also, I wondered if they had taken any positive parenting classes to

help them with how to communicate/enforce the rules/schedules. Your

brother changing his work schedule so SIL can have a break is really

awesome. They have to take care of their needs first in order to deal

with the kids'. I would recommend that they both check out this group

for support/info even if they don't post. My daughter's attitude

toward support groups is that it's just a bunch of people sitting

around whining, but this is definitely not like that. Yes, people

share their challenges (vent), but also offer support and information.

P.

[Guest guest]

Hi Everyone: I found out last night that my brother finally shared with a group

they belong to what was really going on in their home and this group stepped up

to the plate as soon as they heard. Because my brother dropped to 3 days of

work and sometimes can't get 40-45 hours in the paycheck is a problem. They

have my nephew on a completely organic diet which did help some in the

beginning. So this group is going to pay for all their groceries for the next

three months. They are going to set up a rotating cycle so that my bro and SIL

can get out once a week and then their is the professional therapist that comes

to the house - the wrap-a-around therapy. They haven't taken any parenting

classes at this point as they have just got to the point of accepting or rather

acknowledging they can't keep this a secret/private matter any more and need

help. They also offered to clean or whatever to help come along side them and

give them a chance to regroup as human beings.

I am going to take all I have gleaned in my the emails I've gotten and send

them a giant email and encourage them once again to join or just read the

boards. They have been really helpful to me just to understand what they are

going through.

Thanks Everyone.

mzdaisee47 <mzdaisee@...> wrote:

" My brother and his wife can't figure out how have some sort of

control in their home.....They are so afraid of stressing newphew out

that they don't have any control anymore......Worried Aunt in Maine. "

I agree with what everyone else said about schedules being critical.

Also, I wondered if they had taken any positive parenting classes to

help them with how to communicate/enforce the rules/schedules. Your

brother changing his work schedule so SIL can have a break is really

awesome. They have to take care of their needs first in order to deal

with the kids'. I would recommend that they both check out this group

for support/info even if they don't post. My daughter's attitude

toward support groups is that it's just a bunch of people sitting

around whining, but this is definitely not like that. Yes, people

share their challenges (vent), but also offer support and information.

P.

---------------------------------

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