Guest guest Posted August 17, 2006 Report Share Posted August 17, 2006 Hi Al, Well, if Donna is still lurking in the background I am hoping she will chime in. She sells some products but can't remember the exact name of the one. The ones I've used are serrapeptase and immucell. There's another one that's suppose to be good for this type of stuff but just can't remember the correct name. Something like cna or cma or something. Serrapeptase is good for inflammation. Immucell for collegen I believe. However, I have to say I jammed my finger a couple of months ago and it's still not healed even with the immucell and serrapeptase. Doesn't hurt as much and some swelling has gone down, but still can't get my ring on it. Surprised me it's taking this long and even thought to myself even a broken bone heals faster than this. Maybe hands heal slowly because they are used so much. Hope you find something that helps. Take care, Gail -- In oxyplus , " Al Rubottom " <al_rubottom@...> wrote: > > I am suffering from soreness and stiffness in my right hand [palm & fingers, > joints & muscles], it has persisted for approx. 6-8 wks [or maybe more]. > I probably sustained a " whack " to this hand, I cannot remember a specific > incident, not that it really matters now, which healing may have been > retarded/extended because I take Coumadin/warfarin. > Similar things, on a smaller scale, have happened before... recovering from > bruising is a drag with blood-thinners. > > What concerns me is that the stiffness/pain is persisting and perhaps even > worsening. > When I awake the stiffness is alarming, it gets a bit better as I move > around [ & massage my hand], but doesn't really go down much -- my > flexibility improves a little [which is a lot in contrast to the first/worst > sensations] so I can do most things I need to do, if at a disadvantage, but > I do notice MUCH reduced strength & flexibility compared to some time > previous. > There is arthritis in my family history, but onset was usually much later > than my age -- 60. > > Since I work at the keyboard a LOT, this could well become a MAJOR issue for > me. > I also routinely massage my family, and my ability to do so easily or > effectively is already much restricted. > > What treatment(s) do any of you know of that might help relieve this kind of > acute [or is it chronic already?] muscle & /or joint soreness, especially in > a critical area like one's dominant hand? > I will pursue getting more accurate diagnoses & other treatment modalities, > like acupuncture/acupressure, etc., but I would very much appreciate any > good ideas on ways to treat this. > > Thanks in advance for any help you can offer, > Al in San Diego > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 17, 2006 Report Share Posted August 17, 2006 Al, What are you taking those drugs for? They will kill you. You maybe need to do some master cleanses and liver cleanses and get onto a raw food diet. Most of those heart type problems would disappear in a very short time. Also chelation may be a consideration along with several other things. Remember I am not a doctor but have known many people to completely heal themselves when they have taken total responsibility for there health and dropped the drugs (Don't do anything on my say-so though but I would recommend going to see Dr. Harper in Del Mar! Also consider www.Egoscue.com He is also in Delmar. Also check out Feldenkrais. www.feldenkrais.com Best wishes, Ken Ken Gullan Institute for Research Integration (IRI), San Diego, CA 92106-2424 IRI is a 501C(3) non-profit corporation established to help children with developmental difficulties. To contact me off-list use kengullan@... or call 619-222-1104 soreness/stiffness I am suffering from soreness and stiffness in my right hand [palm & fingers, joints & muscles], it has persisted for approx. 6-8 wks [or maybe more]. I probably sustained a " whack " to this hand, I cannot remember a specific incident, not that it really matters now, which healing may have been retarded/extended because I take Coumadin/warfarin. Similar things, on a smaller scale, have happened before... recovering from bruising is a drag with blood-thinners. What concerns me is that the stiffness/pain is persisting and perhaps even worsening. When I awake the stiffness is alarming, it gets a bit better as I move around [ & massage my hand], but doesn't really go down much -- my flexibility improves a little [which is a lot in contrast to the first/worst sensations] so I can do most things I need to do, if at a disadvantage, but I do notice MUCH reduced strength & flexibility compared to some time previous. There is arthritis in my family history, but onset was usually much later than my age -- 60. Since I work at the keyboard a LOT, this could well become a MAJOR issue for me. I also routinely massage my family, and my ability to do so easily or effectively is already much restricted. What treatment(s) do any of you know of that might help relieve this kind of acute [or is it chronic already?] muscle & /or joint soreness, especially in a critical area like one's dominant hand? I will pursue getting more accurate diagnoses & other treatment modalities, like acupuncture/acupressure, etc., but I would very much appreciate any good ideas on ways to treat this. Thanks in advance for any help you can offer, Al in San Diego Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 17, 2006 Report Share Posted August 17, 2006 Hi Al, I have to recommend the master cleanse. It removes all aches and pains when done for 10-40 days. This of course depends on how toxic you are. I have gotten rid of some really debilitating aches and pains in all my joints just after 10 days of this cleanse performed with a liver flush at the start and end. Check out this website which I have no affiliation with: http://therawfoodsite.com/the_master_cleanser.htm also www.curezone.com G Murray Al Rubottom wrote: >I am suffering from soreness and stiffness in my right hand [palm & fingers, >joints & muscles], it has persisted for approx. 6-8 wks [or maybe more]. >I probably sustained a " whack " to this hand, I cannot remember a specific >incident, not that it really matters now, which healing may have been >retarded/extended because I take Coumadin/warfarin. >Similar things, on a smaller scale, have happened before... recovering from >bruising is a drag with blood-thinners. > >What concerns me is that the stiffness/pain is persisting and perhaps even >worsening. >When I awake the stiffness is alarming, it gets a bit better as I move >around [ & massage my hand], but doesn't really go down much -- my >flexibility improves a little [which is a lot in contrast to the first/worst >sensations] so I can do most things I need to do, if at a disadvantage, but >I do notice MUCH reduced strength & flexibility compared to some time >previous. >There is arthritis in my family history, but onset was usually much later >than my age -- 60. > >Since I work at the keyboard a LOT, this could well become a MAJOR issue for >me. >I also routinely massage my family, and my ability to do so easily or >effectively is already much restricted. > >What treatment(s) do any of you know of that might help relieve this kind of >acute [or is it chronic already?] muscle & /or joint soreness, especially in >a critical area like one's dominant hand? >I will pursue getting more accurate diagnoses & other treatment modalities, >like acupuncture/acupressure, etc., but I would very much appreciate any >good ideas on ways to treat this. > >Thanks in advance for any help you can offer, >Al in San Diego > > > >OxyPLUS is an unmoderated e-ring dealing with oxidative therapies, and other alternative self-help subjects. > >THERE IS NO MEDICAL ADVICE HERE! > >This list is the 1st Amendment in action. The things you will find here are for information and research purposes only. We are people sharing information we believe in. If you act on ideas found here, you do so at your own risk. Self-help requires intelligence, common sense, and the ability to take responsibility for your own actions. By joining the list you agree to hold yourself FULLY responsible FOR yourself. Do not use any ideas found here without consulting a medical professional, unless you are a researcher or health care provider. > >You can unsubscribe via e-mail by sending A NEW e-mail to the following address - NOT TO THE OXYPLUS LIST! - >DO NOT USE REPLY BUTTON & DO NOT PUT THIS IN THE SUBJECT LINE or BODY of the message! : > > oxyplus-unsubscribeegroups > > oxyplus-normalonelist - switch your subscription to normal mode. > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 18, 2006 Report Share Posted August 18, 2006 Hi Al, Sorry to hear about your challenges. I noticed Ken mentioned it being wise to get off your meds. I would exercise caution in this particular situation. Warfarin/coumadin has shown to be almost impossible to get off of without having a stroke. MD's have tried to wean people off over long periods, like six months, really slowly reducing the dose and still high numbers of people stroke. So unless you really know what you are doing - naturally - to prevent stroke, I would not stop the med you are on. It is wicked stuff and you can stop, but you really need to know that you know that you know that you are doing it right. On the possible arthritis ie joint discomfort issue: As mentioned, Serrapeptase is a natural anti-inflammatory which also removes scar tissue and is fabulous for joints and heart. ImmuCell restores joints and is excellent if you think there is any damage to the joints. The missing piece for Gail may be the CMO that Gypsy Rose mentioned. When an injury occurs, some immune systems get confused and they fail to distinguish between healthy cells and cell debris and so they start to tear down your joints. that is arthritis. CMO turns off that mechanism and corrects the immune system and enables it to distinguish between healthy cells and cell debris. If Serrapeptase or ImmuCell do not give relief, the CMO would be a logical option to try. I generally recommend people do all three when dealing with the kind of thing you are talking about. None of these items are too pricey - well they can be, but mine are not. http://www.excellentthings.com Blessings Donna Al Rubottom wrote: > > I am suffering from soreness and stiffness in my right hand [palm & > fingers, > joints & muscles], it has persisted for approx. 6-8 wks [or maybe more]. > I probably sustained a " whack " to this hand, I cannot remember a specific > incident, not that it really matters now, which healing may have been > retarded/extended because I take Coumadin/warfarin. > Similar things, on a smaller scale, have happened before... recovering > from > bruising is a drag with blood-thinners. > > . > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 18, 2006 Report Share Posted August 18, 2006 Hi Al, Something has been bugging me and so thought I'd share it with you. Make your own conclusions. I started taking a baby aspirin about a year or so ago. Studies say it can reduce the risk of a heart attack by 30%. I thought those numbers were pretty good and started taking the asprin as heart trouble runs in my family. Didn't notice any difference in my health one way or another. However, when I started on the serrapeptase, I started bruising very easily. Kept getting all kinds of bruising to the point people around me were commenting on it. My gut instint was telling me my blood was too thin and I stopped taking the aspirin. The bruising stopped. Now I never got any bruising when I was taking only aspirin and after I stopped and continued with the serrapeptase I never got any bruising either. It was only when taking them both at the same time. After thinking about it, with the medication you are already on, I don't feel comfortable suggesting you take serrapeptase for your hand. I just don't know what would happen, and I don't understand why serrpeptase would contribute to thinning the blood but that's what I'm thinking might happen. After reading some of the posts on the CMO, I would be more inclined to go in that direction. At the same time, one thing that we so often overlook and are just too lazy to implement it is simply icying it. That surely can't hurt and with consistancy it could very well help. I am assuming the stiffness and pain are both due to swelling. Icying it would help that. Garden of Life has a product for inflammation canlled FYI, but I have no idea how that would interfere with the meds you are already on. Ice is safe. Try ice. Gail - In oxyplus , " Al Rubottom " <al_rubottom@...> wrote: > > I am suffering from soreness and stiffness in my right hand [palm & fingers, > joints & muscles], it has persisted for approx. 6-8 wks [or maybe more]. > I probably sustained a " whack " to this hand, I cannot remember a specific > incident, not that it really matters now, which healing may have been > retarded/extended because I take Coumadin/warfarin. > Similar things, on a smaller scale, have happened before... recovering from > bruising is a drag with blood-thinners. > > What concerns me is that the stiffness/pain is persisting and perhaps even > worsening. > When I awake the stiffness is alarming, it gets a bit better as I move > around [ & massage my hand], but doesn't really go down much -- my > flexibility improves a little [which is a lot in contrast to the first/worst > sensations] so I can do most things I need to do, if at a disadvantage, but > I do notice MUCH reduced strength & flexibility compared to some time > previous. > There is arthritis in my family history, but onset was usually much later > than my age -- 60. > > Since I work at the keyboard a LOT, this could well become a MAJOR issue for > me. > I also routinely massage my family, and my ability to do so easily or > effectively is already much restricted. > > What treatment(s) do any of you know of that might help relieve this kind of > acute [or is it chronic already?] muscle & /or joint soreness, especially in > a critical area like one's dominant hand? > I will pursue getting more accurate diagnoses & other treatment modalities, > like acupuncture/acupressure, etc., but I would very much appreciate any > good ideas on ways to treat this. > > Thanks in advance for any help you can offer, > Al in San Diego > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 18, 2006 Report Share Posted August 18, 2006 I am sorry to have left several people with the idea that I was recommending that Al just dropped his drugs! I apologize. First of all, I am not a doctor and never recommend anything to do with medical stuff. As I re-read my post, I still think it says " have known many people to completely heal themselves when they have taken total responsibility for there health and dropped the drugs (Don't do anything on my say-so though but I would recommend going to see Dr. Harper in Del Mar!) " By that I meant that people who have totally taken responsibility for their health with cleanses, chelation, saunas, diet, nutrition, etc. have been able to reduce and get off their drugs (while still under a doctors care for that part because they are bad actors). I must say that I think G.. Murray has it right. Do cleanses first before adding more stuff into the system, even good stuff cannot do much good if the system is stopped up! Sorry for the misunderstanding. The fact that these medications are so hard to get off must indicate how bad, and often, unnecessary they are. Still intend calling you sometime soon, Donna! :-) Best wishes and much love, Ken Ken Gullan Institute for Research Integration (IRI), San Diego, CA 92106-2424 IRI is a 501C(3) non-profit corporation established to help children with developmental difficulties. To contact me off-list use kengullan@... or call 619-222-1104 Re: soreness/stiffness Hi Al, Sorry to hear about your challenges. I noticed Ken mentioned it being wise to get off your meds. I would exercise caution in this particular situation. Warfarin/coumadin has shown to be almost impossible to get off of without having a stroke. MD's have tried to wean people off over long periods, like six months, really slowly reducing the dose and still high numbers of people stroke. So unless you really know what you are doing - naturally - to prevent stroke, I would not stop the med you are on. It is wicked stuff and you can stop, but you really need to know that you know that you know that you are doing it right. On the possible arthritis ie joint discomfort issue: As mentioned, Serrapeptase is a natural anti-inflammatory which also removes scar tissue and is fabulous for joints and heart. ImmuCell restores joints and is excellent if you think there is any damage to the joints. The missing piece for Gail may be the CMO that Gypsy Rose mentioned. When an injury occurs, some immune systems get confused and they fail to distinguish between healthy cells and cell debris and so they start to tear down your joints. that is arthritis. CMO turns off that mechanism and corrects the immune system and enables it to distinguish between healthy cells and cell debris. If Serrapeptase or ImmuCell do not give relief, the CMO would be a logical option to try. I generally recommend people do all three when dealing with the kind of thing you are talking about. None of these items are too pricey - well they can be, but mine are not. http://www.excellentthings.com Blessings Donna Al Rubottom wrote: > > I am suffering from soreness and stiffness in my right hand [palm & > fingers, > joints & muscles], it has persisted for approx. 6-8 wks [or maybe more]. > I probably sustained a " whack " to this hand, I cannot remember a specific > incident, not that it really matters now, which healing may have been > retarded/extended because I take Coumadin/warfarin. > Similar things, on a smaller scale, have happened before... recovering > from > bruising is a drag with blood-thinners. > > . > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 19, 2006 Report Share Posted August 19, 2006 Aspirin thins the blood by DESTROYING red blood corpleses (probably misspelled, but since I am a foreigner .... ), that's a great way to do the job, of course. Heroin was advertised by Bayer in the 1890's as the great pain killer, no side effects, non-addictive, etc. It is clear that we need to keep our eyes wide open. DCH Re: soreness/stiffness Hi Al, Something has been bugging me and so thought I'd share it with you. Make your own conclusions. I started taking a baby aspirin about a year or so ago. Studies say it can reduce the risk of a heart attack by 30%. I thought those numbers were pretty good and started taking the asprin as heart trouble runs in my family. Didn't notice any difference in my health one way or another. However, when I started on the serrapeptase, I started bruising very easily. Kept getting all kinds of bruising to the point people around me were commenting on it. My gut instint was telling me my blood was too thin and I stopped taking the aspirin. The bruising stopped. Now I never got any bruising when I was taking only aspirin and after I stopped and continued with the serrapeptase I never got any bruising either. It was only when taking them both at the same time. After thinking about it, with the medication you are already on, I don't feel comfortable suggesting you take serrapeptase for your hand. I just don't know what would happen, and I don't understand why serrpeptase would contribute to thinning the blood but that's what I'm thinking might happen. After reading some of the posts on the CMO, I would be more inclined to go in that direction. At the same time, one thing that we so often overlook and are just too lazy to implement it is simply icying it. That surely can't hurt and with consistancy it could very well help. I am assuming the stiffness and pain are both due to swelling. Icying it would help that. Garden of Life has a product for inflammation canlled FYI, but I have no idea how that would interfere with the meds you are already on. Ice is safe. Try ice. Gail - In oxyplus , " Al Rubottom " <al_rubottom@...> wrote: > > I am suffering from soreness and stiffness in my right hand [palm & fingers, > joints & muscles], it has persisted for approx. 6-8 wks [or maybe more]. > I probably sustained a " whack " to this hand, I cannot remember a specific > incident, not that it really matters now, which healing may have been > retarded/extended because I take Coumadin/warfarin. > Similar things, on a smaller scale, have happened before... recovering from > bruising is a drag with blood-thinners. > > What concerns me is that the stiffness/pain is persisting and perhaps even > worsening. > When I awake the stiffness is alarming, it gets a bit better as I move > around [ & massage my hand], but doesn't really go down much -- my > flexibility improves a little [which is a lot in contrast to the first/worst > sensations] so I can do most things I need to do, if at a disadvantage, but > I do notice MUCH reduced strength & flexibility compared to some time > previous. > There is arthritis in my family history, but onset was usually much later > than my age -- 60. > > Since I work at the keyboard a LOT, this could well become a MAJOR issue for > me. > I also routinely massage my family, and my ability to do so easily or > effectively is already much restricted. > > What treatment(s) do any of you know of that might help relieve this kind of > acute [or is it chronic already?] muscle & /or joint soreness, especially in > a critical area like one's dominant hand? > I will pursue getting more accurate diagnoses & other treatment modalities, > like acupuncture/acupressure, etc., but I would very much appreciate any > good ideas on ways to treat this. > > Thanks in advance for any help you can offer, > Al in San Diego > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 20, 2006 Report Share Posted August 20, 2006 >I started taking a baby aspirin about a year or so ago. Studies say >it can reduce the risk of a heart attack by 30%. Less than 50 % of the cardiologist take an aspirin every day. A friend of mine, in his 60's had an irregular heart beat. He quit taking the aspirin and the irregular heart beat disappeared. Wayne Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 20, 2006 Report Share Posted August 20, 2006 When I went to see my sister in HI she had a noticable bruise on upper arm. She said that when she takes aspirin that happens... So we suggested her dropping that, and eventually the bruise disappeared. Don't think she got any more then that showed. Didn't they used to say that you can hold or rub a bumped place right after it happens, but not after it would show as a bruise? Old wife's tales, but possibly true. Have a good day On 8/20/06, Wayne Fugitt <cwfugitt@...> wrote: > > > >I started taking a baby aspirin about a year or so ago. Studies say > >it can reduce the risk of a heart attack by 30%. > > Less than 50 % of the cardiologist take an aspirin every day. > > A friend of mine, in his 60's had an irregular heart beat. > > He quit taking the aspirin and the irregular heart beat disappeared. > > Wayne > > > -- Sincerely.lie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 23, 2006 Report Share Posted August 23, 2006 Donna, I am not familiar with having to wean off of coumadin. Many people stop coumadin without adverse effect. If you are on coumadin to prevent a clot because you tend to clot then you may get another clot. In pulmonary emboli and other clot disorders many dcotrs feel that the risk for getting another clot is equal to the risk of taking coumadin. There are lots of risks to the use of coumadin. Pulmonary emboli patients and DVT patients are routinely on coumadin for 6 months to prevent further damage. Coumadin does not dissolve clots but does prevent clots from forming. It takes about 6 months for many clots to break down through the bodies own natural enzyme processes. Coumadin is used to prevent the clot from getting worse and obstructing the vessel completely. If you are on coumadin for afib or other caridac conditions you may be on for the rest of your life. If you have a repeat PE or DVT then they will restart coumadin. Again, many doctors feel that the risk of taking coumadin is about equal to having another stroke so they do not contiue therapy long term. Since the risk to using coumadin is significant they opt not to use it after 6 months many times and just hope another stroke does not happen, and often it does not. There are differemt factors they consider in making this decision, such as activity level, diet, overall health, fall risk. etc I have never heard of people being weaned off of coumadin. you are either on it at a theraputic level or you are not. Periodic labs are done to assure that you are theraputic. If the INR is too low then you might as well not take it at all. If it is too high then you are at risk to bleed out. There is a narrow range that must be maintained. If a doctor recommended coumadin to me for a stroke due to a clot or DVT or PE I would only be willing to take it a short time. that is. long enough to get my hands on Serrapeptase and nattokinase. I would do intensive serrrapeptase/ nattokinase therapy for about 3 weeks while on coumadin, have another sonogram to determine if the clot is still there and then stop the coumadin when it is gone. Should only take about 3 to 4 weeks max. Without a sonagram you are shooting in the dark and since it is such a serious diagnosis you should not do that. Serrapeptase is not only anti-inflamatory it will disolve clots and rather quickly. You will have to pay for that sonagram out of pocket and yell, and beg and plead with your doctor to get it. It will not be considered appropriate diagnositics by insurance as you had not been on your coumadin long enough. In fact they most often do not follow up with a sonogram or CT at all. But it will be money well worth spending to confirm your cure and get off of coumadin. Again, if it were cardiac conditons like afib, mitral valve issues, artifical valves you will likely need tto stay on it. but I would still take serrapeptase. www.serrapeptase.info CMO is great for rheumatoid arthritis. I used it with great success when I was nearly crippled with it. Took less than 2 weeks of treatment for me but I did the whole month cause thats what Dr Donsbach said to do. I had to repeat the treatment 2 times over the course of 15 years for minor relapse. I've given away much more than I have ever used. I always keep a bottle on hand. Sometimes thats the only way you can get someone to try something, when you hand it to them and tell them to take it home. I get mine at www.reachforlife.com its called Inflameze. $15. Best, Arrow Each case is individual and has to be determined carefully. In oxyplus , Country Girl <ruthful@...> wrote: > > Hi Al, > > Sorry to hear about your challenges. > > I noticed Ken mentioned it being wise to get off your meds. I would > exercise caution in this particular situation. Warfarin/coumadin has > shown to be almost impossible to get off of without having a stroke. > MD's have tried to wean people off over long periods, like six months, > really slowly reducing the dose and still high numbers of people stroke. > > So unless you really know what you are doing - naturally - to prevent > stroke, I would not stop the med you are on. It is wicked stuff and you > can stop, but you really need to know that you know that you know that > you are doing it right. > > On the possible arthritis ie joint discomfort issue: > > As mentioned, Serrapeptase is a natural anti-inflammatory which also > removes scar tissue and is fabulous for joints and heart. > > ImmuCell restores joints and is excellent if you think there is any > damage to the joints. > > The missing piece for Gail may be the CMO that Gypsy Rose mentioned. > When an injury occurs, some immune systems get confused and they fail to > distinguish between healthy cells and cell debris and so they start to > tear down your joints. that is arthritis. CMO turns off that mechanism > and corrects the immune system and enables it to distinguish between > healthy cells and cell debris. > > If Serrapeptase or ImmuCell do not give relief, the CMO would be a > logical option to try. > > I generally recommend people do all three when dealing with the kind of > thing you are talking about. > > None of these items are too pricey - well they can be, but mine are not. > http://www.excellentthings.com > > Blessings > Donna > > > > > > Al Rubottom wrote: > > > > I am suffering from soreness and stiffness in my right hand [palm & > > fingers, > > joints & muscles], it has persisted for approx. 6-8 wks [or maybe more]. > > I probably sustained a " whack " to this hand, I cannot remember a specific > > incident, not that it really matters now, which healing may have been > > retarded/extended because I take Coumadin/warfarin. > > Similar things, on a smaller scale, have happened before... recovering > > from > > bruising is a drag with blood-thinners. > > > > . > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 23, 2006 Report Share Posted August 23, 2006 Hi Arrow. Well there is alot of info out there about this problem. tho some may successfully stop this med without issue, it IS and issue for many and how are you to know who it will be problem for and who it will not? Here is just one discussion. http://www.warfarinfo.com/procedures.htm Google,: " stopping warfarin " or " stopping coumadin " and you will find a vast amount of info. I think it is wicked stuff and should never be given in the first place because there is nothing that it does that cannot be done naturally with no side effects. BUT once it has been started it is dangerous to abrubtly stop, or even to slowly stop. You need to know what you are doing. I personally know several people who thought that this caution did not apply to them and stopped on their own and stroked. Blessings Donna http://www.excellentthings. Donna, I am not familiar with having to wean off of coumadin. Many people stop coumadin without adverse effect. > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 23, 2006 Report Share Posted August 23, 2006 --side effects. BUT once it has been started it is dangerous to > abrubtly stop, or even to slowly stop. You need to know what you are > doing. I personally know several people who thought that this caution > did not apply to them and stopped on their own and stroked. Donna, This is the part of your discussion that I firmly disagree with. Stopping the drug does not cause a stroke. People stop coumadin all the time and stroke does not happen. A stroke can reoccur because the cause of the stroke condition is not managed properly. You do not wean off of coumadin. There is no such thing. This person you know did not stroke because they stopped coumadin er se, they stroked because their body is ill and has clotting irregularities. In fact I have seen people stroke when they were using coumadin. Coumadin can help to prevent a blood clot stoke by keeping the blood thin.. You have to be careful about how you word these things. It can lead people into false perceptions of the use of the drug. There is nothing intrinsic about coumadin that causes a blood clot type of stroke when you stop taking †he drug. . Only the ill body on its own creates that., but people can get a stroke from coumadin from too thin blood also. This is called a hemmoraghic stoke and just as dangerous and is caused when there is too much coumadin in the blood and the body suffers some kind of injury either from a deteroriating vascular system or from a fall or head injury. Sometimes it is called a spontaneous bleed. So yes, if you stop coumadin and you also did nothing to improve the condition of your blood, if you did not increase your activity, if you did not boost your nutrients you may have a blood clot again. But this does not always happen. It is not directly related to the coumadin. Some people just never get another stroke. People need to organize their perception and thoughts correctly on this issue if they are coumadin users. There is a lot of misinformation out there. the wrong perception could keep somo one on coumadin who should not be nor need be with the correct alternative therapy. The alternative therapy must be taken as routinely and commitedly as the coumadin was. It is not something to mess around with. If the person is elderly, confined, unable to take many nutrients or unable to absorbe and utilize them properly coumadin may be the best choice for them. They must be proactive and have guidance from a competant NMD. Arrow Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 23, 2006 Report Share Posted August 23, 2006 Aspirin combined with plavix had proven to be a deadly combination and will cause more bruising also. Some people think that an aspirin a day even just 81 milligrams will do wonders for a body but aspirin causes bleeding and the older you are the higher the risk and when combined with other things either natural or drug who can predict what you will get yourself into. Why would anyone want to destroy their red blood cells. Those very cells that are requred to transport essential life sustaining oxygen? If you want to thin the blood take nattokinase. If you want to unblock arteries take serrapeptase. Take them to gether for excellent results and forget the aspirin. Arrow oxyplus , " Dirk Chardet " <chardetalvares@...> wrote: > > Aspirin thins the blood by DESTROYING red blood corpleses (probably misspelled, but since I am a foreigner .... ), that's a great way to do the job, of course. > Heroin was advertised by Bayer in the 1890's as the great pain killer, no side effects, non-addictive, etc. > It is clear that we need to keep our eyes wide open. > > DCH > > Re: soreness/stiffness > > > Hi Al, > > Something has been bugging me and so thought I'd share it with you. > Make your own conclusions. > > I started taking a baby aspirin about a year or so ago. Studies say > it can reduce the risk of a heart attack by 30%. I thought those > numbers were pretty good and started taking the asprin as heart > trouble runs in my family. Didn't notice any difference in my health > one way or another. However, when I started on the serrapeptase, I > started bruising very easily. Kept getting all kinds of bruising to > the point people around me were commenting on it. My gut instint was > telling me my blood was too thin and I stopped taking the aspirin. > The bruising stopped. Now I never got any bruising when I was taking > only aspirin and after I stopped and continued with the serrapeptase > I never got any bruising either. It was only when taking them both > at the same time. > > After thinking about it, with the medication you are already on, I > don't feel comfortable suggesting you take serrapeptase for your > hand. I just don't know what would happen, and I don't understand > why serrpeptase would contribute to thinning the blood but that's > what I'm thinking might happen. After reading some of the posts on > the CMO, I would be more inclined to go in that direction. > > At the same time, one thing that we so often overlook and are just > too lazy to implement it is simply icying it. That surely can't hurt > and with consistancy it could very well help. I am assuming the > stiffness and pain are both due to swelling. Icying it would help > that. Garden of Life has a product for inflammation canlled FYI, but > I have no idea how that would interfere with the meds you are already > on. > > Ice is safe. Try ice. > > Gail > > - In oxyplus , " Al Rubottom " <al_rubottom@> wrote: > > > > I am suffering from soreness and stiffness in my right hand [palm & > fingers, > > joints & muscles], it has persisted for approx. 6-8 wks [or maybe > more]. > > I probably sustained a " whack " to this hand, I cannot remember a > specific > > incident, not that it really matters now, which healing may have > been > > retarded/extended because I take Coumadin/warfarin. > > Similar things, on a smaller scale, have happened before... > recovering from > > bruising is a drag with blood-thinners. > > > > What concerns me is that the stiffness/pain is persisting and > perhaps even > > worsening. > > When I awake the stiffness is alarming, it gets a bit better as I > move > > around [ & massage my hand], but doesn't really go down much -- my > > flexibility improves a little [which is a lot in contrast to the > first/worst > > sensations] so I can do most things I need to do, if at a > disadvantage, but > > I do notice MUCH reduced strength & flexibility compared to some > time > > previous. > > There is arthritis in my family history, but onset was usually much > later > > than my age -- 60. > > > > Since I work at the keyboard a LOT, this could well become a MAJOR > issue for > > me. > > I also routinely massage my family, and my ability to do so easily > or > > effectively is already much restricted. > > > > What treatment(s) do any of you know of that might help relieve > this kind of > > acute [or is it chronic already?] muscle & /or joint soreness, > especially in > > a critical area like one's dominant hand? > > I will pursue getting more accurate diagnoses & other treatment > modalities, > > like acupuncture/acupressure, etc., but I would very much > appreciate any > > good ideas on ways to treat this. > > > > Thanks in advance for any help you can offer, > > Al in San Diego > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 23, 2006 Report Share Posted August 23, 2006 Well, Arrow, Unfortunately I cannot remember where I read the first article I read on this, but it clearly stated that the body essentially became dependent on this drug and would hyper clot when people stopped it. It said that doctors had done a study, trying to really slowly wean people off of it over a six month period of time and they still had high stroke rates and it was not people who had stroke tendencies necessarily. It was heart patients who had weak hearts who were needing thinner blood to relieve heart stress. People with no history of stroke were stroking from coming off warfarin/coumadin. I will pray and see if I can recall where I read this information. It's been about six months since I read it, I think. Blessings Donna http://www.excellentthings.com Arrow wrote: > > --side effects. BUT once it has been started it is dangerous to > > abrubtly stop, or even to slowly stop. You need to know what you are > > doing. I personally know several people who thought that this caution > > did not apply to them and stopped on their own and stroked. > > Donna, > > This is the part of your discussion that I firmly disagree with. > Stopping the > drug does not cause a stroke. People stop coumadin all the time and > stroke > does not happen. A stroke can reoccur because the cause of the stroke > condition is not managed properly. You do not wean off of coumadin. > There is > no such thing. This person you know did not stroke because they stopped > coumadin er se, they stroked because their body is ill and has clotting > irregularities. In fact I have seen people stroke when they were using > coumadin. > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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