Guest guest Posted August 29, 2007 Report Share Posted August 29, 2007 My 11 year old Aspy tries so hard to control his anger, rage, tantrums, etc. When he feels one coming on he says, "I'm not gonna say another word." I do not respond at that time but at night when we have our prayer time I remind him of his victory and he is so happy that he avoided a big meltdown. Do any of you have this situation? always asks before he puts on his shoes if he has them sitting for the right feet. When I tell him, "Yes", he replies, "I just wanted to make sure." He also has some of the bathroom issues you all have been discussing. He is chronically constipated and does not seem to recognize the urge to go until the very last second. He might soil his pants a tiny bit but not major jobs away from the toilet. I recently started him on stool softeners because his stools were so monstrously huge and hard as a rock that they stopped up the stool. Gross! He has not been a bed wetter since he was less than 2. Doris M in OK blankra <blankra@...> wrote: Jodi Your doing so many things right at 4 its hard to see the line of reality and make believe for many kids. My only suggestion would be to see if you can find a behavior therapist. They might be able to help him find some better coping techniques when he is angry. My DS is 12 and only this year found some things that help him along with meds for anxiety and rage. Also think about what is setting him off in the van, is it sensory or just not getting his way? If it could be sensory can you do anything to help like sunglasses, or my son used to like to put a blanket over his head if it was to bright – etc,…. Just some other ideas and remember your Mom your boss but he see’s himself as your equal. Hth Greta Take the Internet to Go: Go puts the Internet in your pocket: mail, news, photos more. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 29, 2007 Report Share Posted August 29, 2007 Jeff needs to put his son first and consider what he is watching when is around. If he wants to watch these type of movies it needs to be when is in bed. Bek Jeff and Jodi wrote: threw a raging kicking fit in the van again today. He was mad because we had to leave church. I told him to stop or I would be back to spank him. He got real quiet and then he said "If you spank me I will shoot you" in a serious voice. Sent a shiver down my spine. When I got home and opened the van door he shot me with his toy gun. Dad had a serious talk with him and we put all the toy guns out of reach. I am considering burning them in the burn barrel. It's not the guns but what is in my boy's mind that concerns me. I will not be able to remove all potential weapons in his lifetime. We must teach him to be responsible and respectful. Jeff will teach him gun safety when he gets older. I'm not sure what to do? I can't allow him to get away with things out of fear of making him mad. I'm not very afraid of him now but what if he threatens me as a teenager or man one day or hurts someone else? I need to gain his respect. Jeff and I are doing our best to teach right from wrong. I have good support groups. We are getting great help - school, speech, psychitrist, riding therapy, TKD, meds, church. Any other suggestions would be welcome. Usually is a very sweet and caring little boy. But when he gets mad it can be scary! He is only four but very strong and very determined. He can get out of control in an instant and then just as suddenly he is back to his happy-go-lucky self like nothing happened. I wish I could get Jeff to stop watching violent movies. I try to keep distracted elsewhere while Jeff is watching a movie. Jeff loves westerns and action movies. He doesn't smoke, drink or swear or have any other serious vices and I would hate to take away his movies. Jeff is a very easy going and caring husband and father and respects women. I'm grateful for him. And he is a great Daddy. But I need to talk to him about the movies. I'm assuming the movies is where he got the idea to shoot Mom. I need to get to bed and stop worrying. Thanks for lending an ear. Jodi Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 31, 2007 Report Share Posted August 31, 2007 Not sure if the ideas are from the movies as we don't usually watch those types of movies (my hubby is a sports nut, not a movie watcher) and our son has also made similar threats. Actually it is getting better. He is old enough to realize you can't say those things to other people. When he was 4 or 5 he was always using threatening talk. In grade 1 he threatened to kill his teacher. This was before we had a diagnosis. He had to go to the principal who was very understanding and had a nice talk with him. When I asked him about it at home he told me "I wasn't really going to kill her, she just really made me mad!" Good luck with . I hope he learns to control the threats as he gets bigger. Estevan, SK Canada -- Re: I'm afraid. Jeff needs to put his son first and consider what he is watching when is around. If he wants to watch these type of movies it needs to be when is in bed.BekJeff and Jodi wrote: threw a raging kicking fit in the van again today. He was mad because we had to leave church. I told him to stop or I would be back to spank him. He got real quiet and then he said "If you spank me I will shoot you" in a serious voice. Sent a shiver down my spine. When I got home and opened the van door he shot me with his toy gun. Dad had a serious talk with him and we put all the toy guns out of reach. I am considering burning them in the burn barrel. It's not the guns but what is in my boy's mind that concerns me. I will not be able to remove all potential weapons in his lifetime. We must teach him to be responsible and respectful. Jeff will teach him gun safety when he gets older.I'm not sure what to do? I can't allow him to get away with things out of fear of making him mad. I'm not very afraid of him now but what if he threatens me as a teenager or man one day or hurts someone else? I need to gain his respect. Jeff and I are doing our best to teach right from wrong. I have good support groups. We are getting great help - school, speech, psychitrist, riding therapy, TKD, meds, church. Any other suggestions would be welcome.Usually is a very sweet and caring little boy. But when he gets mad it can be scary! He is only four but very strong and very determined. He can get out of control in an instant and then just as suddenly he is back to his happy-go-lucky self like nothing happened.I wish I could get Jeff to stop watching violent movies. I try to keep distracted elsewhere while Jeff is watching a movie. Jeff loves westerns and action movies. He doesn't smoke, drink or swear or have any other serious vices and I would hate to take away his movies.Jeff is a very easy going and caring husband and father and respects women. I'm grateful for him. And he is a great Daddy. But I need to talk to him about the movies. I'm assuming the movies is where he got the idea to shoot Mom.I need to get to bed and stop worrying. Thanks for lending an ear.Jodi Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 31, 2007 Report Share Posted August 31, 2007 You are completely missing my point. How is *he* to figure out that the spanking was for the screaming, kicking, raging fit? It may seem completely intuitive for you - if you were hit for that you'd realize why. There's a good chance just doesn't get it. Trying to figure out what is wanted in a social situation is a constant guessing game can crumble an Aspie mentally - often no matter how hard they try they don't get it. You need to understand that using spanking doesn't give any specifics as to what he did wrong, why it was wrong, how to avoid doing it again, etc. It just gives him the motivation to try harder not to make you mad. Unfortunately, trying harder doesn't fix the Aspie's inability to understand social situations (and when someone tries so hard, still fails and has people refuse to explain the specifics: depression, autistic catatonia and a variety of other mental health consequences can result - some of which can prevent an Aspie from being functional at all). Spanking doesn't " teach " anything - it is just a rudimentary method of letting know you are displeased. Think of it as putting up a flag that reads: " somewhere around this point in time you made a mistake " . Ideally, the spanked child would determine what they did wrong and teach themselves not to do it (because they want to avoid the pain). But with an Aspie, that doesn't often happen. So that means it is up to *you* to teach him what was expected of him by showing him what was supposed to happen. is not " just like everyone else " and tactics that work on everyone else are not likely to work on him. I'm not saying you should just let him be bad: I'm saying you need to learn to convey to him (however you can, be it pictures, playacting, etc) what he was supposed to learn instead of expecting him to just figure it out. As he gets older you'll be able to teach him how to figure out what he did wrong on his own, but don't hold your breath on that ability coming anytime soon. -Lana P.S. You can still use spankings: you just need to understand their shortcomings. Spankings arn't a method of teaching unless combined with something brief that specifies which behavior was wrong. Look at the situation: You didn't like what he was doing so you spanked him, he didn't like what you were doing so he threatened to shoot you (mimicing your seriousness when you said you'd spank him, and following through because you did). The issue here is that he doesn't know what specifically he did wrong, so he isn't understanding the spanking as a cause-effect thing - instead, he's looking at it as an eye for an eye thing. If you want to continue to spank, you need to get the whole cause-effect thing defined so he understands that he did do something socially unacceptable and you're not just playing some elaborate game with him. IMHO, most of what you need to do with is preventative teaching - he needs more context to be able to figure out when he is wrong with social things. For example, for the car behavior: praise him when he is being good in the car, assign a short name to the behavior like " good traveller " . Do this over and over until he understands that sitting quietly and not bothering Mom while she is driving is a " good traveller " . One he knows what it is, next time he acts up in the car tell him he needs to be a " good traveller " . If he keeps acting up to the point where you need to spank him, do so, but specify " bad traveller. " This conveys what was supposed to happen ( " good traveller " ) and what shouldn't have happened ( " bad traveller " ). The spanking reinforces the undesireability of the latter. I know it sounds rediculously structured and subdivided, but it works! So for church he needs a " good departure " or something similar - departure seems like a big word for a little kid. You'd use this word everytime he politely said goodbye and left without a fuss until he knew it well enough, then you can use it as a command when he isn't doing what he should be. Best of luck, -LGOn 8/31/07, Jeff and Jodi <jjkgardenier@...> wrote: Teach him that having a sreaming, kicking the back of my van seat, raging fit isn't going to get him anywhere but spanked. Once again I'm not out to prove that spanking is right. I'm out to figure out what is the best way to reach my son and teach him right from wrong. Spankings cause pain? Yes, chosing bad behavior causes unpleasant circumstances. A life reality. My primary job is to be a Mom not to be fun. Bad behavior after church causes punishiment. Good behavior brings rewards. I would rather spank my son now then visit him in prison one day. Jodi Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 31, 2007 Report Share Posted August 31, 2007 You are completely missing my point. How is *he* to figure out that the spanking was for the screaming, kicking, raging fit? It may seem completely intuitive for you - if you were hit for that you'd realize why. There's a good chance just doesn't get it. Trying to figure out what is wanted in a social situation is a constant guessing game can crumble an Aspie mentally - often no matter how hard they try they don't get it. You need to understand that using spanking doesn't give any specifics as to what he did wrong, why it was wrong, how to avoid doing it again, etc. It just gives him the motivation to try harder not to make you mad. Unfortunately, trying harder doesn't fix the Aspie's inability to understand social situations (and when someone tries so hard, still fails and has people refuse to explain the specifics: depression, autistic catatonia and a variety of other mental health consequences can result - some of which can prevent an Aspie from being functional at all). Spanking doesn't " teach " anything - it is just a rudimentary method of letting know you are displeased. Think of it as putting up a flag that reads: " somewhere around this point in time you made a mistake " . Ideally, the spanked child would determine what they did wrong and teach themselves not to do it (because they want to avoid the pain). But with an Aspie, that doesn't often happen. So that means it is up to *you* to teach him what was expected of him by showing him what was supposed to happen. is not " just like everyone else " and tactics that work on everyone else are not likely to work on him. I'm not saying you should just let him be bad: I'm saying you need to learn to convey to him (however you can, be it pictures, playacting, etc) what he was supposed to learn instead of expecting him to just figure it out. As he gets older you'll be able to teach him how to figure out what he did wrong on his own, but don't hold your breath on that ability coming anytime soon. -Lana P.S. You can still use spankings: you just need to understand their shortcomings. Spankings arn't a method of teaching unless combined with something brief that specifies which behavior was wrong. Look at the situation: You didn't like what he was doing so you spanked him, he didn't like what you were doing so he threatened to shoot you (mimicing your seriousness when you said you'd spank him, and following through because you did). The issue here is that he doesn't know what specifically he did wrong, so he isn't understanding the spanking as a cause-effect thing - instead, he's looking at it as an eye for an eye thing. If you want to continue to spank, you need to get the whole cause-effect thing defined so he understands that he did do something socially unacceptable and you're not just playing some elaborate game with him. IMHO, most of what you need to do with is preventative teaching - he needs more context to be able to figure out when he is wrong with social things. For example, for the car behavior: praise him when he is being good in the car, assign a short name to the behavior like " good traveller " . Do this over and over until he understands that sitting quietly and not bothering Mom while she is driving is a " good traveller " . One he knows what it is, next time he acts up in the car tell him he needs to be a " good traveller " . If he keeps acting up to the point where you need to spank him, do so, but specify " bad traveller. " This conveys what was supposed to happen ( " good traveller " ) and what shouldn't have happened ( " bad traveller " ). The spanking reinforces the undesireability of the latter. I know it sounds rediculously structured and subdivided, but it works! So for church he needs a " good departure " or something similar - departure seems like a big word for a little kid. You'd use this word everytime he politely said goodbye and left without a fuss until he knew it well enough, then you can use it as a command when he isn't doing what he should be. Best of luck, -LGOn 8/31/07, Jeff and Jodi <jjkgardenier@...> wrote: Teach him that having a sreaming, kicking the back of my van seat, raging fit isn't going to get him anywhere but spanked. Once again I'm not out to prove that spanking is right. I'm out to figure out what is the best way to reach my son and teach him right from wrong. Spankings cause pain? Yes, chosing bad behavior causes unpleasant circumstances. A life reality. My primary job is to be a Mom not to be fun. Bad behavior after church causes punishiment. Good behavior brings rewards. I would rather spank my son now then visit him in prison one day. Jodi Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 31, 2007 Report Share Posted August 31, 2007 Amen Jodi!! I wish more could see it that way. I once spanked my son in the grocery store when he was going nuts wanting cookies. A lady came up to me and I thought I'd be in trouble but this is what she told me: "thanks for teaching your son he can't have everything he wants and that bad behaviour earns punishment" It turns out the lady works with young offenders and she said if more people would discipline - which sometimes means spanking - she might be out of a job, which would suit her fine. Estevan, SK Canada -- Re: I'm afraid. Teach him that having a sreaming, kicking the back of my van seat, raging fit isn't going to get him anywhere but spanked. Once again I'm not out to prove that spanking is right. I'm out to figure out what is the best way to reach my son and teach him right from wrong. Spankings cause pain? Yes, chosing bad behavior causes unpleasant circumstances. A life reality. My primary job is to be a Mom not to be fun. Bad behavior after church causes punishiment. Good behavior brings rewards. I would rather spank my son now then visit him in prison one day.Jodi> >> > I appreciate your response. has communication problems and> > extreme speech delay. He often doesn't "get" reasoning or> > explanations. He does not seem to consider the past or future> > much. I don't believe I spanked him out of frustration. It was a> > conscious decision to teach him something. Thank you. Jodi> >> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 31, 2007 Report Share Posted August 31, 2007 Hi Lana, The reason spankings work with small children is because they are not yet able to understand words. Have you ever seen a mom yelling to her child over and over again, and the child never listens. I spank on the butt gets his attention, so he can then listen to the words, which I believe should be nothing more than a command, not a long psychological speech on the wrongs and rights of the behavior. Just stop it now, spank, because I said so, don't even have to say the I said so, they get it from the spank. You are probably not going to like this, comparing a child to a dog, but I once went to a dog obedience class and the teacher taught us how to make our dogs mind us. If you wanted the dog to heel, you gave the command, Heel, then you yanked on the leash, the dog can't understand words so you have to follow words with a bit of pain, gets their attention. Also for sit, say Sit, then push their butt down. It is called training, dogs need to be trained, kids need to be trained too. And untrained dog or an untrained kid can be a pain to themselves, and everybody around them. Well have to go, kids are here, talk to you all later, Carolyn Re: Re: I'm afraid. Teach him what? Spankings cause pain? That you're not fun to be around? That church is followed by punishment? If the boy can't understand words how on earth do you expect him to understand negative reinforcement?-Lana On 8/28/07, Jeff and Jodi <jjkgardeniersbcglobal (DOT) net> wrote: I appreciate your response. has communication problems and extreme speech delay. He often doesn't "get" reasoning or explanations. He does not seem to consider the past or future much. I don't believe I spanked him out of frustration. It was a conscious decision to teach him something. Thank you. Jodi Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 1, 2007 Report Share Posted September 1, 2007 Ok Carolyn, But I also had a psychologist to tell me once, “you can train a rat to come out of it’s corner to get food”. I dropped that psychologist. Why? Yes you can “train” anything that doesn’t mean they “get it”. From: Autism and Aspergers Treatment [mailto:Autism and Aspergers Treatment ] On Behalf Of Carolyn Sent: Friday, August 31, 2007 4:57 PM Autism and Aspergers Treatment Subject: Re: Re: I'm afraid. Hi Lana, The reason spankings work with small children is because they are not yet able to understand words. Have you ever seen a mom yelling to her child over and over again, and the child never listens. I spank on the butt gets his attention, so he can then listen to the words, which I believe should be nothing more than a command, not a long psychological speech on the wrongs and rights of the behavior. Just stop it now, spank, because I said so, don't even have to say the I said so, they get it from the spank. You are probably not going to like this, comparing a child to a dog, but I once went to a dog obedience class and the teacher taught us how to make our dogs mind us. If you wanted the dog to heel, you gave the command, Heel, then you yanked on the leash, the dog can't understand words so you have to follow words with a bit of pain, gets their attention. Also for sit, say Sit, then push their butt down. It is called training, dogs need to be trained, kids need to be trained too. And untrained dog or an untrained kid can be a pain to themselves, and everybody around them. Well have to go, kids are here, talk to you all later, Carolyn Re: Re: I'm afraid. Teach him what? Spankings cause pain? That you're not fun to be around? That church is followed by punishment? If the boy can't understand words how on earth do you expect him to understand negative reinforcement? -Lana On 8/28/07, Jeff and Jodi <jjkgardeniersbcglobal (DOT) net> wrote: I appreciate your response. has communication problems and extreme speech delay. He often doesn't " get " reasoning or explanations. He does not seem to consider the past or future much. I don't believe I spanked him out of frustration. It was a conscious decision to teach him something. Thank you. Jodi No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.484 / Virus Database: 269.13.1/981 - Release Date: 8/31/2007 6:13 AM No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.484 / Virus Database: 269.13.1/981 - Release Date: 8/31/2007 6:13 AM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 1, 2007 Report Share Posted September 1, 2007 the thing is the child may never "get it" no matter what you teach them .and this isnt even a pro for spanking( which i never said i was def for it or against it ) sometimes a child needs to be trained to do it they dotn get the why but they do need to do it take crossing the street the small child dont understand why mommy looks both ways before,but yet the kid does it and paves the way to the lesson partyou toilet train a child ,they dont know innately what to do .they need to be taught.and say if this child never "gets it" at least he knows what to do and the ones who never get it are the ones who then need the supervision .my one son michael he will go further than derek who is older than him I do not think he will ever be able to live on his own and do things on his own he just isnt grasping the whys and what fors on things.but i still show him and tell him . and maybe one day he will mimic it enough to get by on some thingswould i love to be able to have a child i didnt have to spank yell at or scold and take things away and ground hell yes i would love that is it possible no. Re: Re: I'm afraid. Teach him what? Spankings cause pain? That you're not fun to be around? That church is followed by punishment? If the boy can't understand words how on earth do you expect him to understand negative reinforcement? -Lana On 8/28/07, Jeff and Jodi <jjkgardenier@ sbcglobal. net> wrote: I appreciate your response. has communication problems and extreme speech delay. He often doesn't "get" reasoning or explanations. He does not seem to consider the past or future much. I don't believe I spanked him out of frustration. It was a conscious decision to teach him something. Thank you. Jodi No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.484 / Virus Database: 269.13.1/981 - Release Date: 8/31/2007 6:13 AM No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.484 / Virus Database: 269.13.1/981 - Release Date: 8/31/2007 6:13 AM Got a little couch potato? Check out fun summer activities for kids. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 1, 2007 Report Share Posted September 1, 2007 Vickie, If your children are on the spectrum and I have no clue if they are or if they are receiving any types of services. The services you need to look into are social skills for your children this will help them address some issues and start teaching them as to where they need to be taught and learn. This will also help you as their mother. We all have frustrations and these kids can be extremely defiant. There is other things out there that may contribute to their behaviors because they are Autistic for example’ they don’t read social cues normally. This creates havoc normally with peers, adults and parents. This is why it is so important to seek out help that they so desperately need. Spanking maybe the last alternative for you but from what I hear you saying it’s overwhelming. It is for us all-those of us that have kids on the spectrum. Some parents (and you may already know this) don’t know what to seek out for unless someone tells them. That’s why I’m going out on a limb here just in case ya don’t. may surprise you, seeking out more help and this itself can be very much a frustrating problem, it is for us, we live in a rural town. Read everything you can get your hands on about AS. You will (already are) become more diverst in getting the skills needed to help you help them. It’s very complexed issues here. It is neuro science. Things I am talking about in general when it comes to Aspergers: Occupational therapy, SOCIAL SKILLS is a BIG one. Kids on the spectrum can become so fixated on things that it puts them selves in danger. For instance: My son (when catching the bus) would stand in the middle of the street (again we live in a rural area, hardly any cars) it is a rule to not get in the street. Even though it’s a rule, he becomes fixated on something in the road, it doesn’t matter to him a truck was coming, he was fixated. Sometimes kids on the spectrum may appear as if they “know” or that they “get it” it’s not true. They merely and eventually get it but only because they see this happening over and over with other people. They mimic. Debs From: Autism and Aspergers Treatment [mailto:Autism and Aspergers Treatment ] On Behalf Of vickie Sent: Friday, August 31, 2007 6:18 PM Autism and Aspergers Treatment Subject: Re: Re: I'm afraid. the thing is the child may never " get it " no matter what you teach them .and this isnt even a pro for spanking( which i never said i was def for it or against it ) sometimes a child needs to be trained to do it they dotn get the why but they do need to do it take crossing the street the small child dont understand why mommy looks both ways before,but yet the kid does it and paves the way to the lesson part you toilet train a child ,they dont know innately what to do .they need to be taught. and say if this child never " gets it " at least he knows what to do and the ones who never get it are the ones who then need the supervision . my one son michael he will go further than derek who is older than him I do not think he will ever be able to live on his own and do things on his own he just isnt grasping the whys and what fors on things.but i still show him and tell him . and maybe one day he will mimic it enough to get by on some things would i love to be able to have a child i didnt have to spank yell at or scold and take things away and ground hell yes i would love that is it possible no. Re: Re: I'm afraid. Teach him what? Spankings cause pain? That you're not fun to be around? That church is followed by punishment? If the boy can't understand words how on earth do you expect him to understand negative reinforcement? -Lana On 8/28/07, Jeff and Jodi <jjkgardenier@ sbcglobal. net> wrote: I appreciate your response. has communication problems and extreme speech delay. He often doesn't " get " reasoning or explanations. He does not seem to consider the past or future much. I don't believe I spanked him out of frustration. It was a conscious decision to teach him something. Thank you. Jodi No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.484 / Virus Database: 269.13.1/981 - Release Date: 8/31/2007 6:13 AM No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.484 / Virus Database: 269.13.1/981 - Release Date: 8/31/2007 6:13 AM Got a little couch potato? Check out fun summer activities for kids. No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.484 / Virus Database: 269.13.1/981 - Release Date: 8/31/2007 6:13 AM No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.484 / Virus Database: 269.13.1/981 - Release Date: 8/31/2007 6:13 AM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 1, 2007 Report Share Posted September 1, 2007 I am not sure what you meant about the rat being trained. It is true though that they can be trained, but I don't get what you meant by bringing up the rat, maybe you could clarify. Anyway with me, I simply believe that a child, as a human being, has been designed by the God, who created him, and her, with a mind that is able to understand what authority is. And so I believe it is the parents job to teach the child in the way he or she should go. So I believe we must give consequences for disobedience, this is how we train them. When they are young the consequence is a spank when they challenge authority. About age 2-6. Later on there are other consequences, but I have found if you get them trained young they won't have much of a problem later with authority, the ground work has been laid. Even when they are teenagers and young adults they will come back to their earlier teaching. This follows the scripture, Train up a child in the way he should go, and when he is older he will come back to it, something like that. Carolyn Re: Re: I'm afraid. Teach him what? Spankings cause pain? That you're not fun to be around? That church is followed by punishment? If the boy can't understand words how on earth do you expect him to understand negative reinforcement?-Lana On 8/28/07, Jeff and Jodi <jjkgardeniersbcglobal (DOT) net> wrote: I appreciate your response. has communication problems and extreme speech delay. He often doesn't "get" reasoning or explanations. He does not seem to consider the past or future much. I don't believe I spanked him out of frustration. It was a conscious decision to teach him something. Thank you. Jodi No virus found in this incoming message.Checked by AVG Free Edition.Version: 7.5.484 / Virus Database: 269.13.1/981 - Release Date: 8/31/2007 6:13 AM No virus found in this outgoing message.Checked by AVG Free Edition.Version: 7.5.484 / Virus Database: 269.13.1/981 - Release Date: 8/31/2007 6:13 AM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 1, 2007 Report Share Posted September 1, 2007 What you don’t understand is these kids have to be trained in a different way, their brains are wired differently. When you spank them yes, this creates a bit of fear in them and they may mind you to some degree. But your ultimate goal is to let them know that you are the one to protect them from harms way and direct them from right from wrong. What I am saying is you have to alter your way of thinking for autistic kids. It is the parent’s job, true. IF you are a grandparent with grandkids on the spectrum, this means you will have to alter your way of thinking as well. If it takes reading about Autism-aspergers to understand your grandkids to your fullest ability in order to help them and their family. This is called being supportive and understanding their disorders. It’s a very complex issue and most people in general don’t even try to understand it. It is an old way of disciplining your child by spanking, and I for one was raised this way myself. Today’s kids, autism or Aspergers and the alike are usually accompanied by learning disorders, lack of ability to read others emotions, socialization is the biggest one. I have no clue where your grandkids are on the spectrum. It is important to me for you to understand your grandkids parents do have an extra burden they are dealing with. Be sympathetic and learn the autism world. Otherwise, it will be difficult in the future for you to understand their ways (with spankings or without) as they get older. Basically, the psychologist was referring to a rat because this very issue was brought up. I implied to her that it’s more difficult to discipline my child (Variant of Aspergers, Language Disorder and High IQ.) As if I were a parent that didn’t want to discipline my child, basically nothing was working. I tried it all but then I began to see as he got older that he truly didn’t get what was really being done that I wanted him to “get”. She was implying anything rat, dog and the alike can be taught to do things. IF you give a dog a treat to make him do tricks, sure a dog can be trained. We aren’t dealing with the same kind of brains, it’s true they do “tests” on animals but the animals don’t have brains like humans do nor are their brains wired differently. It is who these kids are. Such as if you wanted to be tall but you were born short it’s the same for Autistic kids. It is in their make up, it’s who they are. Get used to it and jump in with both feet because it’s going to take off with out you and so will your grandkids. Research and learn all you possibly can. “Able to understand” is the key word here. Yes these kids are probably intelligent this is where it’s hidden. Be informed of Autism. God made Autistic kids and I do know the saying; spare the rod and spoil the child. He didn’t create Autism with intentions for these kids. Sincerely, Deb’s From: Autism and Aspergers Treatment [mailto:Autism and Aspergers Treatment ] On Behalf Of Carolyn Sent: Friday, August 31, 2007 7:27 PM Autism and Aspergers Treatment Subject: Re: Re: I'm afraid. I am not sure what you meant about the rat being trained. It is true though that they can be trained, but I don't get what you meant by bringing up the rat, maybe you could clarify. Anyway with me, I simply believe that a child, as a human being, has been designed by the God, who created him, and her, with a mind that is able to understand what authority is. And so I believe it is the parents job to teach the child in the way he or she should go. So I believe we must give consequences for disobedience, this is how we train them. When they are young the consequence is a spank when they challenge authority. About age 2-6. Later on there are other consequences, but I have found if you get them trained young they won't have much of a problem later with authority, the ground work has been laid. Even when they are teenagers and young adults they will come back to their earlier teaching. This follows the scripture, Train up a child in the way he should go, and when he is older he will come back to it, something like that. Carolyn Re: Re: I'm afraid. Teach him what? Spankings cause pain? That you're not fun to be around? That church is followed by punishment? If the boy can't understand words how on earth do you expect him to understand negative reinforcement? -Lana On 8/28/07, Jeff and Jodi <jjkgardeniersbcglobal (DOT) net> wrote: I appreciate your response. has communication problems and extreme speech delay. He often doesn't " get " reasoning or explanations. He does not seem to consider the past or future much. I don't believe I spanked him out of frustration. It was a conscious decision to teach him something. Thank you. Jodi No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.484 / Virus Database: 269.13.1/981 - Release Date: 8/31/2007 6:13 AM No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.484 / Virus Database: 269.13.1/981 - Release Date: 8/31/2007 6:13 AM No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.484 / Virus Database: 269.13.1/981 - Release Date: 8/31/2007 6:13 AM No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.484 / Virus Database: 269.13.1/981 - Release Date: 8/31/2007 6:13 AM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 1, 2007 Report Share Posted September 1, 2007 Hello Debs, I certainly appreciate your well thought out responses to my thoughts. I do understand that these kid's brains are wired differently, that is true, and I think it is good that new things are being discovered every day that might work with them, and things that do work with them. But I do think there is always going to be controversy and no sure way that will work with all kids. It is my son who is autistic, Marty, he is 43 years old now, and is the third of three sons, and he has a younger sister. So you can imagine what a challenge it was to me to try to figure out how to handle him when he was there in the mix of the so called normal kids. For one he had a lot of seizures, I mean a lot, at least a few a week, sometimes a few a day, and so he took anticonvulsants, and they themselves caused all sorts of weird behaviors, and who knows how his brain felt always being shocked the way it was with too much electrical activity. It was really hard to teach him to listen to me, and then on top of all of that you had the school system who had their own ideas then. Back then, in the 60s and 70s they ran the gamut of either institutionalizing the kid for his whole life, to mainstreaming in public highschool. I never let him go to the institution, he always lived here at home with his family, and most of his school years were spent at a special ed school for retarded children here locally. Well he never fit in there, was more autistic than anything, but they didn't use that word then. It was all behavior modification aimed at lower level children, who could be trained easily without much resistance. Yet he fought everything, just did not like to be trained. I always figured he was trying to communicate a point, that he really was not retarded at all, but they never saw it and just labeled him low level, let's see what was it, oh "profoundly retarded" boy did I hate that one! Then when he got very violent, hit him at about puberty none of them knew what to do with him, labeled it "non compliant and aggressive" shish, more labels! I have always hated the labels, they never did him any good, or me either for that matter. To me he was my son, I was his mother, and our bond was as strong, or maybe even stronger than most son/mother combinations due to all we had been through, and still is today. Well I am rambling so will stop, but just wanted you to know I appreciate all your comments, I do think us moms and grandmas ought to stick together, it is US against the system. Just kidding, maybe things are changing, but by some of the letters I read about IEPs, etc. I don't know. Anyway my handsome son sits here right at this moment, not 15 feet from me playing with his shoe. He has one of his old shoes, and all day long he takes the tips of a shoe lace and he works them through the holes on the shoe, does this all day long, is exhausted at bed time. It is like he has worked at an assembly line all day manufacturing electronics, and actually they tried to train him to do that when he was younger, but his behavior was bad, he did not like anybody by then and would throw the electronics at them. Oh well. Anyway he is not violent anymore, is a sweet guy, is quite responsive really, but does not talk. Like this morning I took his temperature when he woke up, have to watch it like a hawk to look out for pneumonia all the time, and he looked at me like, What are you doing, and when it beeped, his eyes were a question, and I said, You're o.k. no fever. He knows what happens if he has one, off to the hospital ER for chest ex-rays, have done that many times, sometimes he has to stay for a few days. Well must run now, am off to a football game. The University of Oregon versus the University of Houston, that is in Texas. I am taking two of my grandkids, was going to take the little one too, but he was sick last week and I think all the noise may scare him too much, he is the one afraid of noises. Anyway my oldest son, Tom, is down and he is going with us, so it should be fun. I have the bikes loaded on the back of the van, and will park at the boat ramp and ride down to the stadium, kind of our little ritual we do on game days. Talk to you all soon, hope you have a great weekend wherever you are! Carolyn Re: Re: I'm afraid. Teach him what? Spankings cause pain? That you're not fun to be around? That church is followed by punishment? If the boy can't understand words how on earth do you expect him to understand negative reinforcement?-Lana On 8/28/07, Jeff and Jodi <jjkgardeniersbcglobal (DOT) net> wrote: I appreciate your response. has communication problems and extreme speech delay. He often doesn't "get" reasoning or explanations. He does not seem to consider the past or future much. I don't believe I spanked him out of frustration. It was a conscious decision to teach him something. Thank you. Jodi No virus found in this incoming message.Checked by AVG Free Edition.Version: 7.5.484 / Virus Database: 269.13.1/981 - Release Date: 8/31/2007 6:13 AM No virus found in this outgoing message.Checked by AVG Free Edition.Version: 7.5.484 / Virus Database: 269.13.1/981 - Release Date: 8/31/2007 6:13 AM No virus found in this incoming message.Checked by AVG Free Edition.Version: 7.5.484 / Virus Database: 269.13.1/981 - Release Date: 8/31/2007 6:13 AM No virus found in this outgoing message.Checked by AVG Free Edition.Version: 7.5.484 / Virus Database: 269.13.1/981 - Release Date: 8/31/2007 6:13 AM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 1, 2007 Report Share Posted September 1, 2007 Some child psychology facts here: Children before the age of 2 have no cognitive abilties to understand words. They are functioning as needs based only. Food when hungry, sleep when tired, cranky when over tired or stressed, etc. Even though they may say NO, they do not yet have the ability to understand the full meaning of that word. Consequences begin teaching them, so that when they reach the developmental stage of cognition, have set a pattern they do understand. All childrens essential development happens by the age of 3 or 4. The neuronet in the brain is formed and does not change the rest of their lives. Spanking is a consequence when they have done something dangerous or seriously wrong. We as parents know the other consequence is not something we want them to experience. Such as getting hit by a car when crossing a busy street or putting their hand on a hot burner on the stove. Consequences for other situations need to be firm and done without anger. You get angry and you've already undone what you set out to do. The child learns the consequence is you get angry. We don't want out children fearing us because we get angry. Children have the ability to decern right from wrong by the age of 8. By the age of 8 consequences should be firmly understood. Many parents take the road of not taking control and then freak out when their children don't listen. I experienced this on a daily basis when I ran a large day care many years ago. Parents couldn't understand why their children would not mind or listen to them. I strongly suggest Love and Logic parenting skill classes. This allows the children their autonomy and parents still retain the control in a very subtle but effective way. It instills consquence thinking and desicion making. Children will learn for example that to go outside in the freezing cold winter without a coat will get them very cold and uncomfortable. The parent is freed from nagging the child to wear a coat. Now to add to this for children with Developmental Disorders there is a parenting book out that is based on Love and Logic principles but written for children with AS, PDD'S etc. It's called " When Love Is Not Enough: A guide to parenting children with RAD-reactive attachement disorder " by L . ISBN: 0-9703525-0-6 This woman took in children under foster care who were ungovernable, had mental and emotional issues, PDD's, etc, the worst of the cases. Those that were unplaceable, and turned these kids around. Her methods are effective. Our therapist calls it Love and Logic with teeth. And yes kids that have AS or autism can learn from these techniques. Our therapist has a lot of experience with Autism. She has several children she had adopted that are handicapped and runs a preschool for autistic children, supervising the primary education classes also offered there. She recommends this book for all parents even those without AS children at home. Kernan Quantum Biofeedback Therapist Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 1, 2007 Report Share Posted September 1, 2007 Yea they do get some services,what had happend when they switched to a life skills school the school didnt need the tss and behavior there and some how even though i still had a caseworker for my kids they fell trhough the cracks .I had called and asked for help a couple times not sure what i could get (most for a tss want it split between home and school but they need it at home not at school ) well this yr I finally was able to get a better help through a different family services unit.they have lit a fire under the butts of the people who were supposed to be there how long ago ( i should of had a worker who talked to me every month what i had was one who only came if i called and if i dont know what to call for when do i call lol) so now I am getting things open for them this yr after school 2 days a week they will got to stepping stones and work on social there.i used to have them in ot and speech out of school and in well it got to hard on me after the sep trying to take care of 4 kids take 3 to scouts during the week 2 to thereapy 2 times a week and all the other thinsg i had going on well the therapy i had dropped and the scouts also .that lessened the burden .right now they got them approved for both the mh mr side but both kind of say the other is the one who takes care of that ugh all this insurance bullshit and red tape crap getting all the ts crossed and i's dotted UGH DRIVES ME NUTS.but they are trying to get a an aid to work at the house with their adls( not sure what the initials stand for but it is their daily living skills) and that would help me at bedtime bathtime and wake up time the 3 hardest parts of the day.we havn't found anything that works well with my kids even the one behavior specialist had trouble with them trying to work for goals here is an example(just happened this week) it was really weird my son has trouble with the sleeping and that well think it was Tuesday night he went to bed and slept the night through in his bed not once getting out to come to my room .Well it has been in place that if he does this he gets a sticker and when he gets so many stickers he gets a prize which has worked with things in the past well he came down was excited bout the sleeping and earning the sticker but when i went to get the sticker he cried he don't want a sticker for sleeping (not that he wanted something else ) he just didn't want me to put the sticker on his chart ,or give it to him ,hell he didn't even want me to talk to him about it.it was like the sticker was bad or something ( he gets really irritable almost daily all day long here and there he gets a day where he is pretty happy and sweet(don't get me wrong he has happy days but i mean the happy where u smile at him and he is good some days if he even thinks we r looking at him he freaks.well i am hoping with this starting to come into place ( the services ) i may get some help.now if i only can get them to deal with jerk x hubs that is the father to them RE: Re: I'm afraid Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 3, 2007 Report Share Posted September 3, 2007 Every doctor, psy, child ed, neuorlogist, etc says not to spank a disabled child. They don't learn anything besides how to spank someone else and igf he dose that outside of the home u can charged. Im a christian and I try to raise my child right but a big part of that is listening to the experts on this. Quit making excuses for the dad watching violent movies. You have to choose whats best for the child - if hes a loving dad he choose not to watch them if its impacting the child - Bubba > > > > can he watch the movies in the bedroom with the door closed? > > > > spanking hardly ever works and may teach him to hit try removing > something > > he likes such as no tv for an hour after you get home > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: " Jeff and Jodi " <jjkgardenier@jjk> > > <_Autism and Aspergers Treatment@autism-asperaut_ > (mailto:Autism and Aspergers Treatment ) > > > Sent: Sunday, August 26, 2007 9:42 PM > > Subject: I'm afraid. > > > > > > > threw a raging kicking fit in the van again today. He was > mad > > > because we had to leave church. I told him to stop or I would be > > > back to spank him. He got real quiet and then he said " If you > spank > > > me I will shoot you " in a serious voice. Sent a shiver down my > > > spine. When I got home and opened the van door he shot me with > his > > > toy gun. Dad had a serious talk with him and we put all the toy > > > guns out of reach. I am considering burning them in the burn > > > barrel. > > > > > > It's not the guns but what is in my boy's mind that concerns me. > > > I will not be able to remove all potential weapons in his > lifetime. > > > We must teach him to be responsible and respectful. Jeff will > teach > > > him gun safety when he gets older. > > > > > > I'm not sure what to do? I can't allow him to get away with > things > > > out of fear of making him mad. I'm not very afraid of him now > but > > > what if he threatens me as a teenager or man one day or hurts > > > someone else? I need to gain his respect. > > > > > > Jeff and I are doing our best to teach right from wrong. > > > I have good support groups. We are getting great help - school, > > > speech, psychitrist, riding therapy, TKD, meds, church. Any > other > > > suggestions would be welcome. > > > > > > Usually is a very sweet and caring little boy. But when he > > > gets mad it can be scary! He is only four but very strong and > very > > > determined. He can get out of control in an instant and then > just > > > as suddenly he is back to his happy-go-lucky self like nothing > > > happened. > > > > > > I wish I could get Jeff to stop watching violent movies. I try > to > > > keep distracted elsewhere while Jeff is watching a movie. > > > Jeff loves westerns and action movies. He doesn't smoke, drink > or > > > swear or have any other serious vices and I would hate to take > away > > > his movies. > > > > > > Jeff is a very easy going and caring husband and father and > respects > > > women. I'm grateful for him. And he is a great Daddy. But I > need > > > to talk to him about the movies. I'm assuming the movies is > where > > > he got the idea to shoot Mom. > > > > > > I need to get to bed and stop worrying. Thanks for lending an > ear. > > > > > > Jodi > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 3, 2007 Report Share Posted September 3, 2007 Dear Lana, I was just reading back on this. When he is defiant and dangerous would you suggest I give him a lolly pop or tell him he is a good boy? I'm really trying to understand where you are coming from. Perhaps I can learn something from you. Jodi > > > > Teach him what? Spankings cause pain? That you're not fun to be > around? > > That church is followed by punishment? If the boy can't > understand words > > how on earth do you expect him to understand negative > reinforcement? > > > > -Lana > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 3, 2007 Report Share Posted September 3, 2007 Sorry Lana about the sarcasm. Feeling kind of defensive but no excuse for rude behavior. Jodi > > Dear Lana, I was just reading back on this. When he is defiant and > dangerous would you suggest I give him a lolly pop or tell him he is a > good boy? I'm really trying to understand where you are coming from. > Perhaps I can learn something from you. Jodi > > > > > > > Teach him what? Spankings cause pain? That you're not fun to be > > around? > > > That church is followed by punishment? If the boy can't > > understand words > > > how on earth do you expect him to understand negative > > reinforcement? > > > > > > -Lana > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 3, 2007 Report Share Posted September 3, 2007 Lana, I just read this and it is very informiative and helpful! Thank you. You have very many good points and given me much to consider! I need to stop getting defensive so easily and make sure I've read all the posts before I reply. Unfortunately I am more emotional then logical and it gets me in trouble quite often. I am learning from my mistakes. Thank you for the valuable input and different perspective. Jodi -- In Autism and Aspergers Treatment , " Lana Gibbons " <lana.m.gibbons@...> wrote: > > You are completely missing my point. How is *he* to figure out that the > spanking was for the screaming, kicking, raging fit? It may seem completely > intuitive for you - if you were hit for that you'd realize why. There's a > good chance just doesn't get it. Trying to figure out what is wanted > in a social situation is a constant guessing game can crumble an Aspie > mentally - often no matter how hard they try they don't get it. > > You need to understand that using spanking doesn't give any specifics > as to what he did wrong, why it was wrong, how to avoid doing it again, > etc. It just gives him the motivation to try harder not to make you mad. > Unfortunately, trying harder doesn't fix the Aspie's inability to understand > social situations (and when someone tries so hard, still fails and has > people refuse to explain the specifics: depression, autistic catatonia and a > variety of other mental health consequences can result - some of which can > prevent an Aspie from being functional at all). > > Spanking doesn't " teach " anything - it is just a rudimentary method of > letting know you are displeased. Think of it as putting up a flag > that reads: " somewhere around this point in time you made a mistake " . > Ideally, the spanked child would determine what they did wrong and teach > themselves not to do it (because they want to avoid the pain). But with an > Aspie, that doesn't often happen. So that means it is up to *you* to teach > him what was expected of him by showing him what was supposed to happen. > > is not " just like everyone else " and tactics that work on everyone > else are not likely to work on him. I'm not saying you should just let him > be bad: I'm saying you need to learn to convey to him (however you can, be > it pictures, playacting, etc) what he was supposed to learn instead of > expecting him to just figure it out. > > As he gets older you'll be able to teach him how to figure out what he did > wrong on his own, but don't hold your breath on that ability coming anytime > soon. > > -Lana > > P.S. You can still use spankings: you just need to understand their > shortcomings. Spankings arn't a method of teaching unless combined with > something brief that specifies which behavior was wrong. Look at the > situation: You didn't like what he was doing so you spanked him, he didn't > like what you were doing so he threatened to shoot you (mimicing your > seriousness when you said you'd spank him, and following through because you > did). The issue here is that he doesn't know what specifically he did > wrong, so he isn't understanding the spanking as a cause-effect thing - > instead, he's looking at it as an eye for an eye thing. If you want to > continue to spank, you need to get the whole cause-effect thing defined so > he understands that he did do something socially unacceptable and you're not > just playing some elaborate game with him. > > IMHO, most of what you need to do with is preventative teaching - he > needs more context to be able to figure out when he is wrong with social > things. For example, for the car behavior: praise him when he is being good > in the car, assign a short name to the behavior like " good traveller " . Do > this over and over until he understands that sitting quietly and not > bothering Mom while she is driving is a " good traveller " . One he knows what > it is, next time he acts up in the car tell him he needs to be a " good > traveller " . If he keeps acting up to the point where you need to spank him, > do so, but specify " bad traveller. " This conveys what was supposed to > happen ( " good traveller " ) and what shouldn't have happened ( " bad > traveller " ). The spanking reinforces the undesireability of the latter. I > know it sounds rediculously structured and subdivided, but it works! > > So for church he needs a " good departure " or something similar - departure > seems like a big word for a little kid. You'd use this word everytime he > politely said goodbye and left without a fuss until he knew it well enough, > then you can use it as a command when he isn't doing what he should be. > > Best of luck, > > -LG > > On 8/31/07, Jeff and Jodi <jjkgardenier@...> wrote: > > > > Teach him that having a sreaming, kicking the back of my van seat, > > raging fit isn't going to get him anywhere but spanked. Once again > > I'm not out to prove that spanking is right. I'm out to figure out > > what is the best way to reach my son and teach him right from wrong. > > Spankings cause pain? Yes, chosing bad behavior causes unpleasant > > circumstances. A life reality. My primary job is to be a Mom not > > to be fun. Bad behavior after church causes punishiment. Good > > behavior brings rewards. I would rather spank my son now then visit > > him in prison one day. > > > > Jodi > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 3, 2007 Report Share Posted September 3, 2007 Lana, I apologize for not responding sooner - this move has truly set me back quite a bit. I just wanted to offer some support here. Hope who is almost 7 has issues as bad if not worse than what you were describing. Last week I called my husband and explained to him that I am afraid of his daughter. She has always had a behavior plan at school, but we have moved states and I haven't yet figured out the ins and outs of what they call Special Ed (I ABSOLUTELY DESPISE THAT TERM - BRINGS TO MIND THE OLD SHORT BUS JOKES). In California, Hope had a 1:1 aide and she was a Regional Center client. Thus far, I am beyond thrilled with the school district - however I am used to California IEPs and Laws. During the IEP, I realized quickly that the people involved had no authority - period. I stressed over and over that Hope really needs her aide, however, while they are now incorporating all of the methods that her aide used to get her to function, including some highly creative ways of giving her support, the teacher stated to me - Hope is just such a joy, but she truly is so passive. I am sitting there in absolute disbelief - particularly because I am covered in bruises and scratches from her attacking me. I continued to stress the need for an intensive behavior plan and at least a part time shared aide, but it was clear that they didn't really believe me on an emotional level. SO what is happening is that Hope is able to hold it together until she gets home and then falls apart. Arkansas schools are quite literally around 3-5 years ahead of California schools because there are few if any English Learners. In second grade, Hope has intensive worksheets (thus far she has had more daily homework than both her 6th grade sister and her 10th grade sister), where there is a sentence with incorrect punctuation, capitalization and tense/wording. She is expected to recognize each and then correct them. Sara didn't do this until 3rd to 4th grade!!!! She is doing beautifully - BUT - it is taking 2 + hours to get through her homework. NOT because she is not capable of it - but because she is falling apart daily. I am really uncomfortable with the idea of modifying her homework load because she already hasn't had the benefit of their curriculum last year and needs the practice! When I described her meltdowns, the solution presented was a modified workload - the reason explained above. In the meantime, while I am absolutely convinced that I live in paradise, I am used to being the "go to" person for RSP/Spec. Ed parents. The offered school based mental health services, which are different than Cali (again). There is no autism team, no Regional Center - the only services in the community are a medicaid waiver and the waiting list is 6-7 years regardless of severity. My husband stepped up his work schedule and actually ended up coming home two weekends in a row which is unheard of - because I am at my wits end. Molly (who has AS) is loving it here - she enjoys her school - heck I want to enroll there - they work in smaller universities - there is a HHS community that she has enrolled in, the others are Engineering/Math, IT, Agriculture and Sciences and one other I believe it is Arts (loosely). She already has a boyfriend who is the star football player (defense), a teacher's son and the school history geek/star. Sara on the other hand is totally lost - she has adhd/poss. learning disabilities - and is off her meds - the script was lost in the move, and I am still trying to get the insurance transferred over. Again the school is 3-5 years ahead of Cali schools, and the way the district is set up, there are separate schools for Kindergarten, 1st - 3rd, 4th, 5-7th which is middle school here, and then the Jr. High and then the High School. So she went from looking forward to being a big 6th grader to being thrown into middle school! Sorry I got off track - bottom line - I too am struggling with Hope and her outbursts. I am mostly a single mom - my husband being a merchant marine and only being home 8-10 weeks a year, and having three girls - Hope in 2nd grade who has Autism, Sara 10 in middle school here - who has ADHD with a timed (on meds) attention span of less than 3 minutes, Molly who is in 10th and then - my son who is 19 moved back home to go to college - but missed the cutoff for Fall and is waiting for Spring and also my future daughter in law. Basically they moved out last May to Indiananapolis, and thought that with three people, Max, Jackie and their friend and living in a trailer that they owned with space rent of only 300, it would be easy - NOT. Max has raging adhd/cognitive lds and couldn't afford his doctors visits, Jackie has medical issues, and no medical insurance, and Jim Bob their friend is an alcoholic. Max contacted me in July asking to come home, with the caveat that it would be both he and Jackie. Max can be part of the problem - he has no tolerance for Hope's antics, however, Jackie has been a godsend. She has endless patience. Hope daily throws things at people (she almost broke my nose last week), screams, yells, kicks my dogs, slams doors, says she hates me and everyone else (while screaming at the top of her lungs), calls everyone names, breaks things out of spite - you name it. We have had this conversation on list before - and I will stick with what I have previously stated - this is willfullness - plain and simple. Hope is on a very consistent, strict schedule, is not cheating on her GF diet and we are easing her into the CF part, and have had no ease - just more escalation. I absolutely lost it the other day - she makes the "slit the throat" gesture at me constantly and says things like want me to break your face? She has been doing her best to break everything in my new beautiful home - including last week when she started pulling on the railing (which is slightly loose) on my stairs and almost yanking it out of the wall - and I yelled back at her at the top of my lungs - I chased her down the hall, and whacked her butt. YES! It got her attention. I am not one of those parents who believes in the whole "lets all sit around, have circle time and feel good about ourselves when it is unwarranted" kind of parents - I have major issues with the whole idea that self esteem should be taught in school (although I have tried to get my brain around it). I firmly believe that self esteem (or self respect which I believe to be a more accurate description) is a side effect of right decisions and hard work, and that we are to be preparing our kids, special or not, for the real world. News flash - no one I have ever worked for (and I have been in the workforce since 15), ever responded to the whole "but you don't understand" crap. They never sat around and worried about my self esteem, but expected me to work hard and feel good about the quality and quantity of my work.... I see my kids too often falling into the "I am privileged" and "I have rights" business. Now, I have been an endless advocate of children, their needs - emotional and physical/spiritual, and adequate diagnoses, early intervention and lots of patience and understanding. IMHO - sometimes a swat on the butt is the most loving thing we can do for these kids. It is an attention getter - this is how after 2 years (and endless locks and combinations of locks) I halted Hope from every time I went to the bathroom, or walked away from her - taking off all of her clothing and running into the middle of the street. I grabbed her by her arm, grabbed a toy car and a toy person - mimed a child getting hit and badly hurt and then swatted her 3 times on her little bare butt (she was still butt naked). Guess what???? She has never done that since, AND she is a little "cross walk nazi" - I have seen her grab the hands of other kids and showing them "street safety". Hope pretty consistently shows willful behavior - any time a child throw a fit because they don't get their way - despite being forewarned of schedule changes, consistent schedules, being sure she isn't acting up because she is in pain, sensory overload or fear, etc etc. I will state, as always, that NONE of us have anything in the way of absolute answers. Autism is a fairly new thing - the first case being described pretty much concurrently in the US and Germany just a couple years after the first vaccine was introduced (smallpox) which was chock full of mercury. None of us have answers that are concrete in any way. We have anecdotal experience, lots of specialists opinions - and there are as many of those as there are specialists, and some concrete study based fact - again which is hotly contested despite some studies being fatally flawed, the public backs the "feel good" idea of the FDA. I apologize for jumping on my soap box (again) - I just had to go there. I am quite certain that this will make bunches of people upset as usual - however, being the mother of two spectrum kids - the oldest one being almost unrecognizable as AS after years of "gut level intervention" - meaning she wasn't dx'd until age 13 - despite being pretty severely affected starting at around age 2.5 to 3 and now being very high functioning AS - she would have been dx'd with Autism - moderate if she had been seen by a knowledgeable doc - I even took all kinds of info in to her psychiatrist when she was dx'd as Bipolar with psychotic /schizo affective features, OCD, ODD, ADD. Part of this being that I didn't have custody of her from 18 months through 5 (long story) and didn't know the whole hx. What I did with her based on my gut feelings - worked! AND I am a fairly strict dogmatic mom. She got plenty of whacks on the butt - and I didn't tolerate her behavior. I have tried and tried to follow the "autism model of parenting" - and guess what - It hasn't worked - it has made everything worse! Believing that Hope is not willful, that these behaviors are all environment caused - are a bunch of BS! While I have never known her to lie which is pretty true to most AS kids, she is very strong willed, and wants her own way. The majority of her melt downs are over not getting her way. She melts down if she doesn't get french fries for dinner, if someone plays with a toy that is hers but she hasn't even looked at in heavens knows how long, if someone expects her to put her clothes away (despite the fact that she is totally capable of putting them away - AND there is scheduled time to do this - she will pick it up and throw it everywhere - screaming that someone else should do it because she shouldn't have to do this stupid stuff.... you name it. Jeff and Jodi <jjkgardenier@...> wrote: Sorry Lana about the sarcasm. Feeling kind of defensive but no excuse for rude behavior. Jodi>> Dear Lana, I was just reading back on this. When he is defiant and > dangerous would you suggest I give him a lolly pop or tell him he is a > good boy? I'm really trying to understand where you are coming from. > Perhaps I can learn something from you. Jodi> > > >> > > Teach him what? Spankings cause pain? That you're not fun to be > > around?> > > That church is followed by punishment? If the boy can't > > understand words> > > how on earth do you expect him to understand negative > > reinforcement?> > > > > > -Lana> > >> Life is too short for drama & petty things! So laugh insanely, love truly and forgive quickly! From one unstable person to another... I hope everyone is happy in your head - we're all doin' pretty good in mine Moody friends. Drama queens. Your life? Nope! - their life, your story. Play Sims Stories at Games. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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