Re: I'm afraid.

[Guest guest]

Jodi

I don't want to sound unkind or harsh but there you have it in a nutshell.....TV can be a tool of the devil.....violence breeds violence, aggression breeds aggression.

If Jeff truly loves his son and I am sure he does, then he needs to change what he views when is around. Whether is video games or tV , haven't we all learned enough from Columbine and other tragedies to know that there is real and inherent danger in violence on tv, movies or in video games ????

You and yours are in my thougths and prayers.

hugs

brenda, wife, mom and grandma to my beloved aspies

Wags! Wags! Wags!

Lowry

"There is no psychiatrist in the world like a puppy licking your face."

Author Ben

Autism and Aspergers Treatment From: jjkgardenier@...Date: Mon, 27 Aug 2007 03:42:37 +0000Subject: I'm afraid.

threw a raging kicking fit in the van again today. He was mad because we had to leave church. I told him to stop or I would be back to spank him. He got real quiet and then he said "If you spank me I will shoot you" in a serious voice. Sent a shiver down my spine. When I got home and opened the van door he shot me with his toy gun. Dad had a serious talk with him and we put all the toy guns out of reach. I am considering burning them in the burn barrel. It's not the guns but what is in my boy's mind that concerns me. I will not be able to remove all potential weapons in his lifetime. We must teach him to be responsible and respectful. Jeff will teach him gun safety when he gets older.I'm not sure what to do? I can't allow him to get away with things out of fear of making him mad. I'm not very afraid of him now but what if he threatens me as a teenager or man one day or hurts someone else? I need to gain his respect. Jeff and I are doing our best to teach right from wrong. I have good support groups. We are getting great help - school, speech, psychitrist, riding therapy, TKD, meds, church. Any other suggestions would be welcome.Usually is a very sweet and caring little boy. But when he gets mad it can be scary! He is only four but very strong and very determined. He can get out of control in an instant and then just as suddenly he is back to his happy-go-lucky self like nothing happened.I wish I could get Jeff to stop watching violent movies. I try to keep distracted elsewhere while Jeff is watching a movie. Jeff loves westerns and action movies. He doesn't smoke, drink or swear or have any other serious vices and I would hate to take away his movies.Jeff is a very easy going and caring husband and father and respects women. I'm grateful for him. And he is a great Daddy. But I need to talk to him about the movies. I'm assuming the movies is where he got the idea to shoot Mom.I need to get to bed and stop worrying. Thanks for lending an ear.Jodi Explore the seven wonders of the world Learn more!

[Guest guest]

Jodi,

I assume your child is AS? I have a child

just like him. Its too much to go into here and now but you may email me privately.

THx,

Deb’s

From: Autism and Aspergers Treatment [mailto:Autism and Aspergers Treatment ] On Behalf Of Jeff and Jodi

Sent: Sunday, August 26, 2007

10:43 PM

Autism and Aspergers Treatment

Subject: I'm

afraid.

threw a raging kicking fit in the van again

today. He was mad

because we had to leave church. I told him to stop or I would be

back to spank him. He got real quiet and then he said " If you spank

me I will shoot you " in a serious voice. Sent a shiver down my

spine. When I got home and opened the van door he shot me with his

toy gun. Dad had a serious talk with him and we put all the toy

guns out of reach. I am considering burning them in the burn

barrel.

It's not the guns but what is in my boy's mind that concerns me.

I will not be able to remove all potential weapons in his lifetime.

We must teach him to be responsible and respectful. Jeff will teach

him gun safety when he gets older.

I'm not sure what to do? I can't allow him to get away with things

out of fear of making him mad. I'm not very afraid of him now but

what if he threatens me as a teenager or man one day or hurts

someone else? I need to gain his respect.

Jeff and I are doing our best to teach right from wrong.

I have good support groups. We are getting great help - school,

speech, psychitrist, riding therapy, TKD, meds, church. Any other

suggestions would be welcome.

Usually is a very sweet and caring little boy. But when he

gets mad it can be scary! He is only four but very strong and very

determined. He can get out of control in an instant and then just

as suddenly he is back to his happy-go-lucky self like nothing

happened.

I wish I could get Jeff to stop watching violent movies. I try to

keep distracted elsewhere while Jeff is watching a movie.

Jeff loves westerns and action movies. He doesn't smoke, drink or

swear or have any other serious vices and I would hate to take away

his movies.

Jeff is a very easy going and caring husband and father and respects

women. I'm grateful for him. And he is a great Daddy. But I need

to talk to him about the movies. I'm assuming the movies is where

he got the idea to shoot Mom.

I need to get to bed and stop worrying. Thanks for lending an ear.

Jodi

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[Guest guest]

Jodi,

I assume your child is AS? I have a child

just like him. Its too much to go into here and now but you may email me privately.

THx,

Deb’s

From: Autism and Aspergers Treatment [mailto:Autism and Aspergers Treatment ] On Behalf Of Jeff and Jodi

Sent: Sunday, August 26, 2007

10:43 PM

Autism and Aspergers Treatment

Subject: I'm

afraid.

threw a raging kicking fit in the van again

today. He was mad

because we had to leave church. I told him to stop or I would be

back to spank him. He got real quiet and then he said " If you spank

me I will shoot you " in a serious voice. Sent a shiver down my

spine. When I got home and opened the van door he shot me with his

toy gun. Dad had a serious talk with him and we put all the toy

guns out of reach. I am considering burning them in the burn

barrel.

It's not the guns but what is in my boy's mind that concerns me.

I will not be able to remove all potential weapons in his lifetime.

We must teach him to be responsible and respectful. Jeff will teach

him gun safety when he gets older.

I'm not sure what to do? I can't allow him to get away with things

out of fear of making him mad. I'm not very afraid of him now but

what if he threatens me as a teenager or man one day or hurts

someone else? I need to gain his respect.

Jeff and I are doing our best to teach right from wrong.

I have good support groups. We are getting great help - school,

speech, psychitrist, riding therapy, TKD, meds, church. Any other

suggestions would be welcome.

Usually is a very sweet and caring little boy. But when he

gets mad it can be scary! He is only four but very strong and very

determined. He can get out of control in an instant and then just

as suddenly he is back to his happy-go-lucky self like nothing

happened.

I wish I could get Jeff to stop watching violent movies. I try to

keep distracted elsewhere while Jeff is watching a movie.

Jeff loves westerns and action movies. He doesn't smoke, drink or

swear or have any other serious vices and I would hate to take away

his movies.

Jeff is a very easy going and caring husband and father and respects

women. I'm grateful for him. And he is a great Daddy. But I need

to talk to him about the movies. I'm assuming the movies is where

he got the idea to shoot Mom.

I need to get to bed and stop worrying. Thanks for lending an ear.

Jodi

No virus found in this incoming message.

Checked by AVG Free Edition.

Version: 7.5.484 / Virus Database: 269.12.8/973 - Release Date: 8/25/2007 5:00 PM

No virus found in this outgoing message.

Checked by AVG Free Edition.

Version: 7.5.484 / Virus Database: 269.12.8/973 - Release Date: 8/25/2007 5:00 PM

[Guest guest]

can he watch the movies in the bedroom with the door closed?

spanking hardly ever works and may teach him to hit try removing something

he likes such as no tv for an hour after you get home

I'm afraid.

> threw a raging kicking fit in the van again today. He was mad

> because we had to leave church. I told him to stop or I would be

> back to spank him. He got real quiet and then he said " If you spank

> me I will shoot you " in a serious voice. Sent a shiver down my

> spine. When I got home and opened the van door he shot me with his

> toy gun. Dad had a serious talk with him and we put all the toy

> guns out of reach. I am considering burning them in the burn

> barrel.

>

> It's not the guns but what is in my boy's mind that concerns me.

> I will not be able to remove all potential weapons in his lifetime.

> We must teach him to be responsible and respectful. Jeff will teach

> him gun safety when he gets older.

>

> I'm not sure what to do? I can't allow him to get away with things

> out of fear of making him mad. I'm not very afraid of him now but

> what if he threatens me as a teenager or man one day or hurts

> someone else? I need to gain his respect.

>

> Jeff and I are doing our best to teach right from wrong.

> I have good support groups. We are getting great help - school,

> speech, psychitrist, riding therapy, TKD, meds, church. Any other

> suggestions would be welcome.

>

> Usually is a very sweet and caring little boy. But when he

> gets mad it can be scary! He is only four but very strong and very

> determined. He can get out of control in an instant and then just

> as suddenly he is back to his happy-go-lucky self like nothing

> happened.

>

> I wish I could get Jeff to stop watching violent movies. I try to

> keep distracted elsewhere while Jeff is watching a movie.

> Jeff loves westerns and action movies. He doesn't smoke, drink or

> swear or have any other serious vices and I would hate to take away

> his movies.

>

> Jeff is a very easy going and caring husband and father and respects

> women. I'm grateful for him. And he is a great Daddy. But I need

> to talk to him about the movies. I'm assuming the movies is where

> he got the idea to shoot Mom.

>

> I need to get to bed and stop worrying. Thanks for lending an ear.

>

> Jodi

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Dear Jodi,

The very best that I've found is to reach out to God right away, listening for what to say or do, along with an acknowledgement that is under God's care; he's not a separated little wild thing sometimes. God is always governing him.

When we listen like that, the appropriate suggestion as to what to do comes. It may be to smack him. It may be to say whatever you hear. Every situation is new and different. What has acting like that may be different at different times.

What is coming to me is that each situation is unique, and there is no one panacea that will cover them all except reaching out to one's Guide and/or God for the unique answer for that moment.

I know how hard it is to deal with what seems like two different people in one. When we reach out, we are bring real healing into the situation as well as the appropriate answer for the moment itself.

Love,

Francine

In a message dated 8/27/2007 8:59:27 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time, jjkgardenier@... writes:

I do try to distract him during these movies somewhat but I want to really buckle down. We have a tiny house but we can go in the bedroom or outside. There is no way that I will be able to shelter from guns and violence all of his childhood. They are everywhere! I must teach him self-control and responsibility and most of all the difference between right and wrong.I just can't make up my mind about spanking. I have been involved in many threads on the subject. I try to go any other route unless he is being all out defiant or dangerous. I'm on the wall with this one. I can see the points on both sides. Sometimes I fell persuaded one way and then the other. I just know that I hate resorting to spanking and it breaks my heart. But I love my son so much and am doing the best I can to teach him right from wrong. I make mistakes but try to always learn and do better. Jodi>> can he watch the movies in the bedroom with the door closed?> > spanking hardly ever works and may teach him to hit try removing something> he likes such as no tv for an hour after you get home> > I'm afraid.> > > > threw a raging kicking fit in the van again today. He was mad> > because we had to leave church. I told him to stop or I would be> > back to spank him. He got real quiet and then he said "If you spank> > me I will shoot you" in a serious voice. Sent a shiver down my> > spine. When I got home and opened the van door he shot me with his> > toy gun. Dad had a serious talk with him and we put all the toy> > guns out of reach. I am considering burning them in the burn> > barrel.> >> > It's not the guns but what is in my boy's mind that concerns me.> > I will not be able to remove all potential weapons in his lifetime.> > We must teach him to be responsible and respectful. Jeff will teach> > him gun safety when he gets older.> >> > I'm not sure what to do? I can't allow him to get away with things> > out of fear of making him mad. I'm not very afraid of him now but> > what if he threatens me as a teenager or man one day or hurts> > someone else? I need to gain his respect.> >> > Jeff and I are doing our best to teach right from wrong.> > I have good support groups. We are getting great help - school,> > speech, psychitrist, riding therapy, TKD, meds, church. Any other> > suggestions would be welcome.> >> > Usually is a very sweet and caring little boy. But when he> > gets mad it can be scary! He is only four but very strong and very> > determined. He can get out of control in an instant and then just> > as suddenly he is back to his happy-go-lucky self like nothing> > happened.> >> > I wish I could get Jeff to stop watching violent movies. I try to> > keep distracted elsewhere while Jeff is watching a movie.> > Jeff loves westerns and action movies. He doesn't smoke, drink or> > swear or have any other serious vices and I would hate to take away> > his movies.> >> > Jeff is a very easy going and caring husband and father and respects> > women. I'm grateful for him. And he is a great Daddy. But I need> > to talk to him about the movies. I'm assuming the movies is where> > he got the idea to shoot Mom.> >> > I need to get to bed and stop worrying. Thanks for lending an ear.> >> > Jodi> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >

[Guest guest]

Burning plastic doesn't sound like a great idea. No local dump? You could always bury them.

In a message dated 8/26/2007 11:43:15 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, jjkgardenier@... writes:

threw a raging kicking fit in the van again today. He was mad because we had to leave church. I told him to stop or I would be back to spank him. He got real quiet and then he said "If you spank me I will shoot you" in a serious voice. Sent a shiver down my spine. When I got home and opened the van door he shot me with his toy gun. Dad had a serious talk with him and we put all the toy guns out of reach. I am considering burning them in the burn barrel. It's not the guns but what is in my boy's mind that concerns me. I will not be able to remove all potential weapons in his lifetime. We must teach him to be responsible and respectful. Jeff will teach him gun safety when he gets older.I'm not sure what to do? I can't allow him to get away with things out of fear of making him mad. I'm not very afraid of him now but what if he threatens me as a teenager or man one day or hurts someone else? I need to gain his respect. Jeff and I are doing our best to teach right from wrong. I have good support groups. We are getting great help - school, speech, psychitrist, riding therapy, TKD, meds, church. Any other suggestions would be welcome.Usually is a very sweet and caring little boy. But when he gets mad it can be scary! He is only four but very strong and very determined. He can get out of control in an instant and then just as suddenly he is back to his happy-go-lucky self like nothing happened.I wish I could get Jeff to stop watching violent movies. I try to keep distracted elsewhere while Jeff is watching a movie. Jeff loves westerns and action movies. He doesn't smoke, drink or swear or have any other serious vices and I would hate to take away his movies.Jeff is a very easy going and caring husband and father and respects women. I'm grateful for him. And he is a great Daddy. But I need to talk to him about the movies. I'm assuming the movies is where he got the idea to shoot Mom.I need to get to bed and stop worrying. Thanks for lending an ear.Jodi

Get a sneak peek of the all-new AOL.com.

[Guest guest]

Jodi

Your doing so many things right at 4 its

hard to see the line of reality and make believe for many kids. My only

suggestion would be to see if you can find a behavior therapist. They might be

able to help him find some better coping techniques when he is angry. My DS is

12 and only this year found some things that help him along with meds for anxiety

and rage. Also think about what is setting him off in the van, is it sensory

or just not getting his way? If it could be sensory can you do anything to

help like sunglasses, or my son used to like to put a blanket over his head if

it was to bright – etc,…. Just some other ideas and remember your

Mom your boss but he see’s himself as your equal.

Hth

Greta

[Guest guest]

Jodi

Your doing so many things right at 4 its

hard to see the line of reality and make believe for many kids. My only

suggestion would be to see if you can find a behavior therapist. They might be

able to help him find some better coping techniques when he is angry. My DS is

12 and only this year found some things that help him along with meds for anxiety

and rage. Also think about what is setting him off in the van, is it sensory

or just not getting his way? If it could be sensory can you do anything to

help like sunglasses, or my son used to like to put a blanket over his head if

it was to bright – etc,…. Just some other ideas and remember your

Mom your boss but he see’s himself as your equal.

Hth

Greta

[Guest guest]

I do try to distract him during these movies somewhat but I want to

really buckle down. We have a tiny house but we can go in the

bedroom or outside. There is no way that I will be able to shelter

from guns and violence all of his childhood. They are

everywhere! I must teach him self-control and responsibility and

most of all the difference between right and wrong.

I just can't make up my mind about spanking. I have been involved

in many threads on the subject. I try to go any other route unless

he is being all out defiant or dangerous. I'm on the wall with this

one. I can see the points on both sides. Sometimes I fell

persuaded one way and then the other. I just know that I hate

resorting to spanking and it breaks my heart. But I love my son so

much and am doing the best I can to teach him right from wrong. I

make mistakes but try to always learn and do better.

Jodi

>

> can he watch the movies in the bedroom with the door closed?

>

> spanking hardly ever works and may teach him to hit try removing

something

> he likes such as no tv for an hour after you get home

>

> I'm afraid.

>

>

> > threw a raging kicking fit in the van again today. He was

mad

> > because we had to leave church. I told him to stop or I would be

> > back to spank him. He got real quiet and then he said " If you

spank

> > me I will shoot you " in a serious voice. Sent a shiver down my

> > spine. When I got home and opened the van door he shot me with

his

> > toy gun. Dad had a serious talk with him and we put all the toy

> > guns out of reach. I am considering burning them in the burn

> > barrel.

> >

> > It's not the guns but what is in my boy's mind that concerns me.

> > I will not be able to remove all potential weapons in his

lifetime.

> > We must teach him to be responsible and respectful. Jeff will

teach

> > him gun safety when he gets older.

> >

> > I'm not sure what to do? I can't allow him to get away with

things

> > out of fear of making him mad. I'm not very afraid of him now

but

> > what if he threatens me as a teenager or man one day or hurts

> > someone else? I need to gain his respect.

> >

> > Jeff and I are doing our best to teach right from wrong.

> > I have good support groups. We are getting great help - school,

> > speech, psychitrist, riding therapy, TKD, meds, church. Any

other

> > suggestions would be welcome.

> >

> > Usually is a very sweet and caring little boy. But when he

> > gets mad it can be scary! He is only four but very strong and

very

> > determined. He can get out of control in an instant and then

just

> > as suddenly he is back to his happy-go-lucky self like nothing

> > happened.

> >

> > I wish I could get Jeff to stop watching violent movies. I try

to

> > keep distracted elsewhere while Jeff is watching a movie.

> > Jeff loves westerns and action movies. He doesn't smoke, drink

or

> > swear or have any other serious vices and I would hate to take

away

> > his movies.

> >

> > Jeff is a very easy going and caring husband and father and

respects

> > women. I'm grateful for him. And he is a great Daddy. But I

need

> > to talk to him about the movies. I'm assuming the movies is

where

> > he got the idea to shoot Mom.

> >

> > I need to get to bed and stop worrying. Thanks for lending an

ear.

> >

> > Jodi

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

[Guest guest]

Did you warn him before you got up and left church? It might help

to give him a countdown - " 10 minutes until we have to leave... 8

minutes... " Then he actually expects the change in scenery.

It might even help to mention the next event too: " 6 minutes until we

leave church and then go home " The whole change thing is a big

problem for Aspies and it really, really helps to give that extra,

structured warning before things change.

You may not realize it, but it looks like you're the one teaching him

violence is an appropriate response for someone who causes

irritation. You got frustrated with his behavior so you told him

you'd be violent to him (spanking) and he got frustrated right back and

told you he'd be violent to you (shoot you). You are not going to

be able to get him to understand why he is supposed to be nice when it

is okay for you to be violent to him. Being an Aspie means the

poor boy is already at wits end a lot and you're unintentionally

teaching him that the way you cope with that is to be violent to the

person who causes you to get there. At 4 years old, he is not

going to understand that gun violence is worse than physical violence

such as spankings. Take the violence completely out of the

equation, otherwise this will be a recurring issue.

Figure out which toys/belongings/privlidges he enjoys the most and make

it clear to him _well in advance_ that they will start disappearing

when you deem his behavior inadequate. It may help to write out a

punishment sheet (a list of offenses and their corresponding

confiscation time), so that there is a recurring physical

representation of the rules for your son to gain respect for.

Don't change the sheet without your son present (so if you want to

increase the punishment time on an offense he does a lot, do it with

him there while explaining why) and don't punish him for things not on

the sheet (rather, sit him down, explain how not everything ends up

documented, add it to the sheet and then you can punish him for

it.) Structure is absolutely vital for Aspies - the more you make

them breakdance the more frustrated they will get.

-Lana

P.S. Please don't burn plastic, the fumes are noxious - if you

are going to get rid of them, send the toys off to the recycling

center, or give them to the local salvation army.On 8/26/07, Jeff and Jodi <jjkgardenier@...

> wrote:

threw a raging kicking fit in the van again today. He was mad

because we had to leave church. I told him to stop or I would be

back to spank him. He got real quiet and then he said " If you spank

me I will shoot you " in a serious voice. Sent a shiver down my

spine. When I got home and opened the van door he shot me with his

toy gun. Dad had a serious talk with him and we put all the toy

guns out of reach. I am considering burning them in the burn

barrel.

[Guest guest]

Jodi,Sounds like Jeff needs to have his tv taken way. And needs to have guns, play or real, removed from the home.When my son behaved this way, the most important thing we did, in addition to monitoring our television/movie viewing and putting all possible weapons away, was to work with our son to see if he REALLY understood what he was saying. It turned out he did NOT understand what " kill " meant.

In his mind it was, " go away and leave me alone " . Back to language skills, instead of putting your energy into being afraid (I DO understand what that is like - my son rammed a scissor into my head when he was only two), put it into seeing whether or not understands " kill " . When my son said he wanted to kill his older sister, we explained to him that if he did kill her:

1. She would never be in his life. That left him open-mouthed and he wanted to know why.2. She would go away forever. This is just another version of #1 but it was impactful to him to explain it multiple ways.

3. He would never, ever see her again. This is where the tears started welling up in his eyes and he ran to her, throwing himself into her arms begging forgiveness.4. This is where we launched into what God wants us to do.....to control ourselves, not say things that are mean, etc., etc.

That's probably a lot for a 4-year-old so you might want to ease into it, but start with the checking to see if he really knows what he is saying. I would doubt he does understand it. He needs to be taught, EXPLICITLY, what every single word means. You cannot afford to assume he understands.

Again, I understand your fear. I had the same fear with our son, beginning when he was very young. I just always had a sense that he would harm me. His birth mother was removed from her parents home when she was a young teen for trying to knife one of the other children. But we don't have to live in fear....I am convinced, after several years of being very specific with my son, and teaching him the meaning of words, and teaching him that he is accountable to God for his behavior that we are seeing an amazing change in our son. He's still only 7 but now when he gets angry at not being in control, he stops himself and finds other things to do to calm down. He'll rush for his little drawing desk, for example, and say to himself, " I will not sin....I will not be angry....I will not say mean things..... " and start to draw, immediately switching into Sweet Child.

It is scary. Their behavior is strange. But it doesn't help for us to be in an emotional state of fear either.As far as why your husband needs to find another place to watch his movies, or get rid of all of them that contain violence and killing - it's confusing for any children, but especially Aspies, to see an act of killing and to understand it is " only " pretend. You don't want it embedded in your son's head that if he shoots someone (skip the gun training - you have two decades before you should even consider that) it's " only " pretend - that they'll come back to life in another movie, etc. SharonOn 8/26/07, Jeff and Jodi <jjkgardenier@...> wrote:

Jeff and I are doing our best to teach right from wrong.

I have good support groups. We are getting great help - school,

speech, psychitrist, riding therapy, TKD, meds, church. Any other

suggestions would be welcome.

Usually is a very sweet and caring little boy. But when he

gets mad it can be scary! He is only four but very strong and very

determined. He can get out of control in an instant and then just

as suddenly he is back to his happy-go-lucky self like nothing

happened.

I wish I could get Jeff to stop watching violent movies. I try to

keep distracted elsewhere while Jeff is watching a movie.

Jeff loves westerns and action movies. He doesn't smoke, drink or

swear or have any other serious vices and I would hate to take away

his movies.

Jeff is a very easy going and caring husband and father and respects

women. I'm grateful for him. And he is a great Daddy. But I need

to talk to him about the movies. I'm assuming the movies is where

he got the idea to shoot Mom.

I need to get to bed and stop worrying. Thanks for lending an ear.

Jodi

-- Deut 11:14 He will put grass in the fields for your cattle, and you will have plenty to eat.

[Guest guest]

Jodi,Sounds like Jeff needs to have his tv taken way. And needs to have guns, play or real, removed from the home.When my son behaved this way, the most important thing we did, in addition to monitoring our television/movie viewing and putting all possible weapons away, was to work with our son to see if he REALLY understood what he was saying. It turned out he did NOT understand what " kill " meant.

In his mind it was, " go away and leave me alone " . Back to language skills, instead of putting your energy into being afraid (I DO understand what that is like - my son rammed a scissor into my head when he was only two), put it into seeing whether or not understands " kill " . When my son said he wanted to kill his older sister, we explained to him that if he did kill her:

1. She would never be in his life. That left him open-mouthed and he wanted to know why.2. She would go away forever. This is just another version of #1 but it was impactful to him to explain it multiple ways.

3. He would never, ever see her again. This is where the tears started welling up in his eyes and he ran to her, throwing himself into her arms begging forgiveness.4. This is where we launched into what God wants us to do.....to control ourselves, not say things that are mean, etc., etc.

That's probably a lot for a 4-year-old so you might want to ease into it, but start with the checking to see if he really knows what he is saying. I would doubt he does understand it. He needs to be taught, EXPLICITLY, what every single word means. You cannot afford to assume he understands.

Again, I understand your fear. I had the same fear with our son, beginning when he was very young. I just always had a sense that he would harm me. His birth mother was removed from her parents home when she was a young teen for trying to knife one of the other children. But we don't have to live in fear....I am convinced, after several years of being very specific with my son, and teaching him the meaning of words, and teaching him that he is accountable to God for his behavior that we are seeing an amazing change in our son. He's still only 7 but now when he gets angry at not being in control, he stops himself and finds other things to do to calm down. He'll rush for his little drawing desk, for example, and say to himself, " I will not sin....I will not be angry....I will not say mean things..... " and start to draw, immediately switching into Sweet Child.

It is scary. Their behavior is strange. But it doesn't help for us to be in an emotional state of fear either.As far as why your husband needs to find another place to watch his movies, or get rid of all of them that contain violence and killing - it's confusing for any children, but especially Aspies, to see an act of killing and to understand it is " only " pretend. You don't want it embedded in your son's head that if he shoots someone (skip the gun training - you have two decades before you should even consider that) it's " only " pretend - that they'll come back to life in another movie, etc. SharonOn 8/26/07, Jeff and Jodi <jjkgardenier@...> wrote:

Jeff and I are doing our best to teach right from wrong.

I have good support groups. We are getting great help - school,

speech, psychitrist, riding therapy, TKD, meds, church. Any other

suggestions would be welcome.

Usually is a very sweet and caring little boy. But when he

gets mad it can be scary! He is only four but very strong and very

determined. He can get out of control in an instant and then just

as suddenly he is back to his happy-go-lucky self like nothing

happened.

I wish I could get Jeff to stop watching violent movies. I try to

keep distracted elsewhere while Jeff is watching a movie.

Jeff loves westerns and action movies. He doesn't smoke, drink or

swear or have any other serious vices and I would hate to take away

his movies.

Jeff is a very easy going and caring husband and father and respects

women. I'm grateful for him. And he is a great Daddy. But I need

to talk to him about the movies. I'm assuming the movies is where

he got the idea to shoot Mom.

I need to get to bed and stop worrying. Thanks for lending an ear.

Jodi

-- Deut 11:14 He will put grass in the fields for your cattle, and you will have plenty to eat.

[Guest guest]

Stop right now ,the reason you keep tossing this about in your head is you feel guilty.No one wants to spank their child,hell ,no one wants to have to yell at them, tell them no and break their teeny little hearts cuz they want a new doll.But we have to,do not let them ,or others ,guilt you and make you second guess what you are doing.Spanking is not the only way there are other ways but sometimes depending on circumstances those other ways do not work.Like with me I really do not know what to do with my son who is 13(be 14 in oct) i scolded him for something he did well I couldnt time him out ,cant spank him,and send him to his room.I literally cant make him cuz he is bigger than me stronger than me,he doesnt hit me or anything but if he dont want to move I am not going to budge this boy no where .I can take away things like play outside .what if it is raining?? there goes that.

It is hard to be a parent ,but we make it harder than it has to be when we guilt and second guess ourselves .Guess what most kids pick up on this and will milk it for all it is worth lol,

Stick to your guns(pardon the pun) dont back down.Take away something he loves to do /play with .

when in the car ignore most outburst unless he is throwing things,hurting someone else ,or geting out of the car seat.It is hard I know .I have pulled over on occasion and just sat in the car and said well we aint going anywhere until this is done,ive had to reput and reput my lil girl back in her car seat.

Also plan for the trips even the "quick" ones there is no such thing as a "quick " trip with a child.Go after they already ate ,dont make the trip at naptime,take a snack in your bag for the "i'm hungry".Pack a lil travel bag with small QUIET LOL toys, get lil travel games I spy etc... anything to keep him occupied in the car.

now with the im going to shoot you,hmm i get comments of being killed ,punched a lot .I say to my son that I love him but i do not like how he is talking to me.sometimes i reach him and he crys then and tells me sorry.if he is in a RAGE .all i can do is move him to a point where he cant hurt anyone or himself and just let him freak.

I later sit down with him and ask him what is wrong and talk with him as best as I can and repeat it everytime it happens.Sometimes they suprise you and it will click.

As to the movies ,lol same argument here with my x except it was the action movies where every other word is the f word and there are people pummeling people to a pulp(hey a tongue twister say that 3 times fast) lol.Wel what I did was set a time where my x can watch them (after bedtime or when the kids are not downstairs) when the kids are around there is no reason to watch a movie that is to violent around them ( go by age )if it is totally unavoidable.I cover the bad parts (gory) And I explain the movie,ex they are actors one is pretending to be a good guy the other is playing a bad guy. and as the story goes on going by what ever the scene tell them what they are doing if the guy harms the other id tell him they arnt being nice that guy hurt the otehr guy he should of not done that .you know stuff like that to make it less realistic to them (i also make sure i show the actor in other movies. i mean

they cant be everything . these are jsut some suggestions.at one point in time kids are going to back talk the mom or trheaten whether it be to hurt them or run away to firing you ( yes my son fired me one day ) .take it one day at a time .

I'm afraid.> > > > threw a raging kicking fit in the van again today. He was mad> > because we had to leave church. I told him to stop or I would be> > back to spank him. He got real quiet and

then he said "If you spank> > me I will shoot you" in a serious voice. Sent a shiver down my> > spine. When I got home and opened the van door he shot me with his> > toy gun. Dad had a serious talk with him and we put all the toy> > guns out of reach. I am considering burning them in the burn> > barrel.> >> > It's not the guns but what is in my boy's mind that concerns me.> > I will not be able to remove all potential weapons in his lifetime.> > We must teach him to be responsible and respectful. Jeff will teach> > him gun safety when he gets older.> >> > I'm not sure what to do? I can't allow him to get away with things> > out of fear of making him mad. I'm not very afraid of him now but> > what if he threatens me as a teenager or man one day or hurts> > someone else? I need to

gain his respect.> >> > Jeff and I are doing our best to teach right from wrong.> > I have good support groups. We are getting great help - school,> > speech, psychitrist, riding therapy, TKD, meds, church. Any other> > suggestions would be welcome.> >> > Usually is a very sweet and caring little boy. But when he> > gets mad it can be scary! He is only four but very strong and very> > determined. He can get out of control in an instant and then just> > as suddenly he is back to his happy-go-lucky self like nothing> > happened.> >> > I wish I could get Jeff to stop watching violent movies. I try to> > keep distracted elsewhere while Jeff is watching a movie.> > Jeff loves westerns and action movies. He doesn't smoke, drink or> > swear or have any other serious

vices and I would hate to take away> > his movies.> >> > Jeff is a very easy going and caring husband and father and respects> > women. I'm grateful for him. And he is a great Daddy. But I need> > to talk to him about the movies. I'm assuming the movies is where> > he got the idea to shoot Mom.> >> > I need to get to bed and stop worrying. Thanks for lending an ear.> >> > Jodi> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >

[Guest guest]

Jodi,

Self Control is something my son has a

problem with to. I believe because he is AS that he needs to be taught

differently. Our world is filled of violence and there is no way we can

continually shelter our children from this. Our children (AS) will latch on to

something and become obsessed with it. It wouldn’t hurt to see someone about

this to help you relate to your son on how this can be dangerous.

Self Control is something these kis have

problems with and if you have questions and you need to have insight on this

matter than obviously you are confused on what to do. I am too! Spanking is not

beneficial with our children, they don’t learn from this so spanking is a

waste of time. They haven’t been taught “a lesson”. They

learn differently, they are wired differently. They are whom they are it’s

what makes them up to be themselves. Its like, if you wanted to be taller but

you can’t. You are short and it cannot be changed. Spanking won’t

change the fact of you being short…My point is: it’s not effective.

  

From: Autism and Aspergers Treatment [mailto:Autism and Aspergers Treatment ] On Behalf Of Jeff and Jodi

Sent: Monday, August 27, 2007 7:57

AM

Autism and Aspergers Treatment

Subject: Re:

I'm afraid.

I do try to distract him during these movies somewhat

but I want to

really buckle down. We have a tiny house but we can go in the

bedroom or outside. There is no way that I will be able to shelter

from guns and violence all of his childhood. They are

everywhere! I must teach him self-control and responsibility and

most of all the difference between right and wrong.

I just can't make up my mind about spanking. I have been involved

in many threads on the subject. I try to go any other route unless

he is being all out defiant or dangerous. I'm on the wall with this

one. I can see the points on both sides. Sometimes I fell

persuaded one way and then the other. I just know that I hate

resorting to spanking and it breaks my heart. But I love my son so

much and am doing the best I can to teach him right from wrong. I

make mistakes but try to always learn and do better.

Jodi

>

> can he watch the movies in the bedroom with the door closed?

>

> spanking hardly ever works and may teach him to hit try removing

something

> he likes such as no tv for an hour after you get home

>

> I'm afraid.

>

>

> > threw a raging kicking fit in the van again today. He was

mad

> > because we had to leave church. I told him to stop or I would be

> > back to spank him. He got real quiet and then he said " If you

spank

> > me I will shoot you " in a serious voice. Sent a shiver down my

> > spine. When I got home and opened the van door he shot me with

his

> > toy gun. Dad had a serious talk with him and we put all the toy

> > guns out of reach. I am considering burning them in the burn

> > barrel.

> >

> > It's not the guns but what is in my boy's mind that concerns me.

> > I will not be able to remove all potential weapons in his

lifetime.

> > We must teach him to be responsible and respectful. Jeff will

teach

> > him gun safety when he gets older.

> >

> > I'm not sure what to do? I can't allow him to get away with

things

> > out of fear of making him mad. I'm not very afraid of him now

but

> > what if he threatens me as a teenager or man one day or hurts

> > someone else? I need to gain his respect.

> >

> > Jeff and I are doing our best to teach right from wrong.

> > I have good support groups. We are getting great help - school,

> > speech, psychitrist, riding therapy, TKD, meds, church. Any

other

> > suggestions would be welcome.

> >

> > Usually is a very sweet and caring little boy. But when he

> > gets mad it can be scary! He is only four but very strong and

very

> > determined. He can get out of control in an instant and then

just

> > as suddenly he is back to his happy-go-lucky self like nothing

> > happened.

> >

> > I wish I could get Jeff to stop watching violent movies. I try

to

> > keep distracted elsewhere while Jeff is watching a movie.

> > Jeff loves westerns and action movies. He doesn't smoke, drink

or

> > swear or have any other serious vices and I would hate to take

away

> > his movies.

> >

> > Jeff is a very easy going and caring husband and father and

respects

> > women. I'm grateful for him. And he is a great Daddy. But I

need

> > to talk to him about the movies. I'm assuming the movies is

where

> > he got the idea to shoot Mom.

> >

> > I need to get to bed and stop worrying. Thanks for lending an

ear.

> >

> > Jodi

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

[Guest guest]

He got real quiet because he sensed he was taking a huge risk threatening you like that. Luckily, he got away with it enough to even plink one off you before getting talked to. Next time, calmly take the gun and stomp it into little tiny pieces in full view of him, and dispose of it minus the burning. When he gets enraged, point out that his toys are only his to the extent that he follows your rules. After a very small number of such episodes, the "quiet" will extend to fully suppressing thoughts that disturb Mom. This is 100% normal 4yr old behavior, and you are completely within your motherly domain to suppress it like a third world dictator (maybe not that hard, but close). Maybe it's my perspective as a man and father of 3, but I'm not buying the Jeff as culprit theory, because kids do just come up with weird, violent thoughts occasionally. Unless he's watching Kill

Bill at 11am on Saturday, in which case I agree with you. Caudle <cindyc@...> wrote: can he watch the movies in the bedroom with the door closed? spanking hardly ever works and may teach him to hit try removing something he likes such as no tv for an hour after you get home I'm afraid. > threw a raging kicking fit in the van again today. He was mad > because we had to leave church. I told him to stop or I would be > back to spank him. He got real quiet and then he said "If you spank > me I will shoot you" in a serious voice. Sent a shiver down my > spine. When I got home and opened the van door he shot me with his > toy gun. Dad had a serious talk with him and we put all the toy > guns out of reach. I am considering burning them in the burn > barrel. > > It's not the guns but what is in my boy's mind that concerns me. > I will not be able to remove all potential weapons in his lifetime. > We must teach him to be responsible and respectful. Jeff will teach > him gun

safety when he gets older. > > I'm not sure what to do? I can't allow him to get away with things > out of fear of making him mad. I'm not very afraid of him now but > what if he threatens me as a teenager or man one day or hurts > someone else? I need to gain his respect. > > Jeff and I are doing our best to teach right from wrong. > I have good support groups. We are getting great help - school, > speech, psychitrist, riding therapy, TKD, meds, church. Any other > suggestions would be welcome. > > Usually is a very sweet and caring little boy. But when he > gets mad it can be scary! He is only four but very strong and very > determined. He can get out of control in an instant and then just > as suddenly he is back to his happy-go-lucky self like nothing > happened. > > I wish I could get Jeff to stop watching violent movies. I

try to > keep distracted elsewhere while Jeff is watching a movie. > Jeff loves westerns and action movies. He doesn't smoke, drink or > swear or have any other serious vices and I would hate to take away > his movies. > > Jeff is a very easy going and caring husband and father and respects > women. I'm grateful for him. And he is a great Daddy. But I need > to talk to him about the movies. I'm assuming the movies is where > he got the idea to shoot Mom. > > I need to get to bed and stop worrying. Thanks for lending an ear. > > Jodi > > > > > > > > > >

[Guest guest]

He got real quiet because he sensed he was taking a huge risk threatening you like that. Luckily, he got away with it enough to even plink one off you before getting talked to. Next time, calmly take the gun and stomp it into little tiny pieces in full view of him, and dispose of it minus the burning. When he gets enraged, point out that his toys are only his to the extent that he follows your rules. After a very small number of such episodes, the "quiet" will extend to fully suppressing thoughts that disturb Mom. This is 100% normal 4yr old behavior, and you are completely within your motherly domain to suppress it like a third world dictator (maybe not that hard, but close). Maybe it's my perspective as a man and father of 3, but I'm not buying the Jeff as culprit theory, because kids do just come up with weird, violent thoughts occasionally. Unless he's watching Kill

Bill at 11am on Saturday, in which case I agree with you. Caudle <cindyc@...> wrote: can he watch the movies in the bedroom with the door closed? spanking hardly ever works and may teach him to hit try removing something he likes such as no tv for an hour after you get home I'm afraid. > threw a raging kicking fit in the van again today. He was mad > because we had to leave church. I told him to stop or I would be > back to spank him. He got real quiet and then he said "If you spank > me I will shoot you" in a serious voice. Sent a shiver down my > spine. When I got home and opened the van door he shot me with his > toy gun. Dad had a serious talk with him and we put all the toy > guns out of reach. I am considering burning them in the burn > barrel. > > It's not the guns but what is in my boy's mind that concerns me. > I will not be able to remove all potential weapons in his lifetime. > We must teach him to be responsible and respectful. Jeff will teach > him gun

safety when he gets older. > > I'm not sure what to do? I can't allow him to get away with things > out of fear of making him mad. I'm not very afraid of him now but > what if he threatens me as a teenager or man one day or hurts > someone else? I need to gain his respect. > > Jeff and I are doing our best to teach right from wrong. > I have good support groups. We are getting great help - school, > speech, psychitrist, riding therapy, TKD, meds, church. Any other > suggestions would be welcome. > > Usually is a very sweet and caring little boy. But when he > gets mad it can be scary! He is only four but very strong and very > determined. He can get out of control in an instant and then just > as suddenly he is back to his happy-go-lucky self like nothing > happened. > > I wish I could get Jeff to stop watching violent movies. I

try to > keep distracted elsewhere while Jeff is watching a movie. > Jeff loves westerns and action movies. He doesn't smoke, drink or > swear or have any other serious vices and I would hate to take away > his movies. > > Jeff is a very easy going and caring husband and father and respects > women. I'm grateful for him. And he is a great Daddy. But I need > to talk to him about the movies. I'm assuming the movies is where > he got the idea to shoot Mom. > > I need to get to bed and stop worrying. Thanks for lending an ear. > > Jodi > > > > > > > > > >

[Guest guest]

I appreciate your response. has communication problems and

extreme speech delay. He often doesn't " get " reasoning or

explanations. He does not seem to consider the past or future

much. I don't believe I spanked him out of frustration. It was a

conscious decision to teach him something. Thank you. Jodi

> >

> > threw a raging kicking fit in the van again today. He

was mad

> > because we had to leave church. I told him to stop or I would be

> > back to spank him. He got real quiet and then he said " If you

spank

> > me I will shoot you " in a serious voice. Sent a shiver down my

> > spine. When I got home and opened the van door he shot me with

his

> > toy gun. Dad had a serious talk with him and we put all the toy

> > guns out of reach. I am considering burning them in the burn

> > barrel.

> >

>

[Guest guest]

I want to thank everyone so much for their replies and suggestions.

You have given me much food for thought! I've read each and every one

and have taken them to heart. I would love to reply to more but

exhausted! and I where sent home from headstart today with

headlice! Much of the town has it. I have spent the entire day

cleaning in a frenzy, washing hair and my dear friend from church came

over and picked our heads for a few hours. Now that's a friend! Have

a good night everyone. What a day! Lice are so disgusting!

Jodi

p.s. Rest in peace that I will not burn my son's plastic guns. =)

[Guest guest]

Teach him what? Spankings cause pain? That you're not fun

to be around? That church is followed by punishment? If the

boy can't understand words how on earth do you expect him to understand

negative reinforcement?

-LanaOn 8/28/07, Jeff and Jodi <jjkgardenier@...> wrote:

I appreciate your response. has communication problems and

extreme speech delay. He often doesn't " get " reasoning or

explanations. He does not seem to consider the past or future

much. I don't believe I spanked him out of frustration. It was a

conscious decision to teach him something. Thank you. Jodi

[Guest guest]

Well said Lana

From: Autism and Aspergers Treatment [mailto:Autism and Aspergers Treatment ] On Behalf Of Lana Gibbons

Sent: Monday, August 27, 2007 8:08

AM

Autism and Aspergers Treatment

Subject: Re:

I'm afraid.

Did you warn him before you got up and left

church? It might help to give him a countdown - " 10 minutes until we

have to leave... 8 minutes... " Then he actually expects the change

in scenery. It might even help to mention the next event too: " 6

minutes until we leave church and then go home " The whole change

thing is a big problem for Aspies and it really, really helps to give that

extra, structured warning before things change.

You may not realize it, but it looks like you're the one teaching him violence

is an appropriate response for someone who causes irritation. You got

frustrated with his behavior so you told him you'd be violent to him (spanking)

and he got frustrated right back and told you he'd be violent to you (shoot you).

You are not going to be able to get him to understand why he is supposed to be

nice when it is okay for you to be violent to him. Being an Aspie means

the poor boy is already at wits end a lot and you're unintentionally teaching

him that the way you cope with that is to be violent to the person who causes

you to get there. At 4 years old, he is not going to understand that gun

violence is worse than physical violence such as spankings. Take the

violence completely out of the equation, otherwise this will be a recurring

issue.

Figure out which toys/belongings/privlidges he enjoys the most and make it

clear to him _well in advance_ that they will start disappearing when you deem

his behavior inadequate. It may help to write out a punishment sheet (a list

of offenses and their corresponding confiscation time), so that there is a

recurring physical representation of the rules for your son to gain respect

for. Don't change the sheet without your son present (so if you want to

increase the punishment time on an offense he does a lot, do it with him there

while explaining why) and don't punish him for things not on the sheet (rather,

sit him down, explain how not everything ends up documented, add it to the

sheet and then you can punish him for it.) Structure is absolutely vital

for Aspies - the more you make them breakdance the more frustrated they will

get.

-Lana

P.S. Please don't burn plastic, the fumes are noxious - if you are going

to get rid of them, send the toys off to the recycling center, or give them to

the local salvation army.

On 8/26/07, Jeff and

Jodi <jjkgardeniersbcglobal (DOT) net

> wrote:

threw a raging kicking fit in the van again

today. He was mad

because we had to leave church. I told him to stop or I would be

back to spank him. He got real quiet and then he said " If you spank

me I will shoot you " in a serious voice. Sent a shiver down my

spine. When I got home and opened the van door he shot me with his

toy gun. Dad had a serious talk with him and we put all the toy

guns out of reach. I am considering burning them in the burn

barrel.

No virus found in this incoming message.

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[Guest guest]

Jodi,

isn’t going to get spanking

either. When you have an autistic child you basically have to throw the normal

parenting handbook out the window. won’t listen to reason nor will

he be taught by spanking. Been there done that, my husband and I can’t

agree to disagree but he is finally just now getting it. We are just now

learning the hard way J I have been told to get the video/cd from Rick Lavoie. This will

explain a lot to you and me. If you are going to teach you will have to

get through to him the way he lets things in. Lana is exactly right regardless

of others posts about spanking.

Deb’s

From: Autism and Aspergers Treatment [mailto:Autism and Aspergers Treatment ] On Behalf Of Jeff and Jodi

Sent: Tuesday, August 28, 2007

12:08 AM

Autism and Aspergers Treatment

Subject: Re:

I'm afraid.

I appreciate your response. has communication

problems and

extreme speech delay. He often doesn't " get " reasoning or

explanations. He does not seem to consider the past or future

much. I don't believe I spanked him out of frustration. It was a

conscious decision to teach him something. Thank you. Jodi

> >

> > threw a raging kicking fit in the van again today. He

was mad

> > because we had to leave church. I told him to stop or I would be

> > back to spank him. He got real quiet and then he said " If you

spank

> > me I will shoot you " in a serious voice. Sent a shiver down my

> > spine. When I got home and opened the van door he shot me with

his

> > toy gun. Dad had a serious talk with him and we put all the toy

> > guns out of reach. I am considering burning them in the burn

> > barrel.

> >

>

No virus found in this incoming message.

Checked by AVG Free Edition.

Version: 7.5.484 / Virus Database: 269.12.9/975 - Release Date: 8/26/2007 9:34 PM

No virus found in this outgoing message.

Checked by AVG Free Edition.

Version: 7.5.484 / Virus Database: 269.12.9/975 - Release Date: 8/26/2007 9:34 PM

[Guest guest]

Oh I left out, you are communicating

spanking which is also a violence issue. Think about it…the very thing

you need to get through to him. I understand your concerns whole heartedly.

Deb’s

From: Autism and Aspergers Treatment [mailto:Autism and Aspergers Treatment ] On Behalf Of Jeff and Jodi

Sent: Tuesday, August 28, 2007

12:08 AM

Autism and Aspergers Treatment

Subject: Re:

I'm afraid.

I appreciate your response. has communication

problems and

extreme speech delay. He often doesn't " get " reasoning or

explanations. He does not seem to consider the past or future

much. I don't believe I spanked him out of frustration. It was a

conscious decision to teach him something. Thank you. Jodi

> >

> > threw a raging kicking fit in the van again today. He

was mad

> > because we had to leave church. I told him to stop or I would be

> > back to spank him. He got real quiet and then he said " If you

spank

> > me I will shoot you " in a serious voice. Sent a shiver down my

> > spine. When I got home and opened the van door he shot me with

his

> > toy gun. Dad had a serious talk with him and we put all the toy

> > guns out of reach. I am considering burning them in the burn

> > barrel.

> >

>

No virus found in this incoming message.

Checked by AVG Free Edition.

Version: 7.5.484 / Virus Database: 269.12.9/975 - Release Date: 8/26/2007 9:34 PM

No virus found in this outgoing message.

Checked by AVG Free Edition.

Version: 7.5.484 / Virus Database: 269.12.9/975 - Release Date: 8/26/2007 9:34 PM

[Guest guest]

God bless you Jodi! My kids had that once. What a drag! Laughing about the guns!

In a message dated 8/28/2007 1:41:03 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time, jjkgardenier@... writes:

I want to thank everyone so much for their replies and suggestions. You have given me much food for thought! I've read each and every one and have taken them to heart. I would love to reply to more but exhausted! and I where sent home from headstart today with headlice! Much of the town has it. I have spent the entire day cleaning in a frenzy, washing hair and my dear friend from church came over and picked our heads for a few hours. Now that's a friend! Have a good night everyone. What a day! Lice are so disgusting! Jodi p.s. Rest in peace that I will not burn my son's plastic guns. =)

Get a sneak peek of the all-new AOL.com.

[Guest guest]

Dear Lana and Jodi,

From my experience, I think children come up with rage and violence all by themselves. Look how early kids are screaming when they don't instantly have what they want.

Your warning suggestion is really good, even if there's only time for a one minute warning. This way it isn't an abrupt surprise, which can be unsettling and annoying for anyone.

And the documentation or rules and consequences sheet is really a good idea. If the child isn't reading yet, pictures can be drawn. It really gives every;one the control they want (not saying control is a good thing) by pointing out that each one now is completely at choice about what happens, since we know the consequences. Of course, this is generally very annoying to all of us who love to be 'victims'.

It does, however, give the child (or anyone) a sense of responsibility, and it is fair, and it eliminates surprises that could set off further rage.

It's good to remember that no matter how intense and pleasurable the rage may feel to a child or an adult, it is still chaotic and frightening, especially if another is cowed by it.

I hope I expressed this clearly! Thanks again for your suggestions Lana; again, I always get something good from them, whether I 'agree' or not!

Love,

Francine

In a message dated 8/28/2007 12:36:23 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time, lana.m.gibbons@... writes:

Did you warn him before you got up and left church? It might help to give him a countdown - "10 minutes until we have to leave... 8 minutes..." Then he actually expects the change in scenery. It might even help to mention the next event too: "6 minutes until we leave church and then go home" The whole change thing is a big problem for Aspies and it really, really helps to give that extra, structured warning before things change.You may not realize it, but it looks like you're the one teaching him violence is an appropriate response for someone who causes irritation. You got frustrated with his behavior so you told him you'd be violent to him (spanking) and he got frustrated right back and told you he'd be violent to you (shoot you). You are not going to be able to get him to understand why he is supposed to be nice when it is okay for you to be violent to him. Being an Aspie means the poor boy is already at wits end a lot and you're unintentionally teaching him that the way you cope with that is to be violent to the person who causes you to get there. At 4 years old, he is not going to understand that gun violence is worse than physical violence such as spankings. Take the violence completely out of the equation, otherwise this will be a recurring issue.Figure out which toys/belongings/privlidges he enjoys the most and make it clear to him _well in advance_ that they will start disappearing when you deem his behavior inadequate. It may help to write out a punishment sheet (a list of offenses and their corresponding confiscation time), so that there is a recurring physical representation of the rules for your son to gain respect for. Don't change the sheet without your son present (so if you want to increase the punishment time on an offense he does a lot, do it with him there while explaining why) and don't punish him for things not on the sheet (rather, sit him down, explain how not everything ends up documented, add it to the sheet and then you can punish him for it.) Structure is absolutely vital for Aspies - the more you make them breakdance the more frustrated they will get.-LanaP.S. Please don't burn plastic, the fumes are noxious - if you are going to get rid of them, send the toys off to the recycling center, or give them to the local salvation army.

On 8/26/07, Jeff and Jodi <jjkgardeniersbcglobal (DOT) net > wrote:

threw a raging kicking fit in the van again today. He was mad because we had to leave church. I told him to stop or I would be back to spank him. He got real quiet and then he said "If you spank me I will shoot you" in a serious voice. Sent a shiver down my spine. When I got home and opened the van door he shot me with his toy gun. Dad had a serious talk with him and we put all the toy guns out of reach. I am considering burning them in the burn barrel.

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[Guest guest]

Dear Sharon,

This is a wonderful post. Thank you.

Love,

Francine

In a message dated 8/28/2007 12:33:27 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time, skericson@... writes:

Jodi,Sounds like Jeff needs to have his tv taken way. And needs to have guns, play or real, removed from the home.When my son behaved this way, the most important thing we did, in addition to monitoring our television/movie viewing and putting all possible weapons away, was to work with our son to see if he REALLY understood what he was saying. It turned out he did NOT understand what "kill" meant. In his mind it was, "go away and leave me alone". Back to language skills, instead of putting your energy into being afraid (I DO understand what that is like - my son rammed a scissor into my head when he was only two), put it into seeing whether or not understands "kill". When my son said he wanted to kill his older sister, we explained to him that if he did kill her: 1. She would never be in his life. That left him open-mouthed and he wanted to know why.2. She would go away forever. This is just another version of #1 but it was impactful to him to explain it multiple ways. 3. He would never, ever see her again. This is where the tears started welling up in his eyes and he ran to her, throwing himself into her arms begging forgiveness.4. This is where we launched into what God wants us to do.....to control ourselves, not say things that are mean, etc., etc. That's probably a lot for a 4-year-old so you might want to ease into it, but start with the checking to see if he really knows what he is saying. I would doubt he does understand it. He needs to be taught, EXPLICITLY, what every single word means. You cannot afford to assume he understands. Again, I understand your fear. I had the same fear with our son, beginning when he was very young. I just always had a sense that he would harm me. His birth mother was removed from her parents home when she was a young teen for trying to knife one of the other children. But we don't have to live in fear....I am convinced, after several years of being very specific with my son, and teaching him the meaning of words, and teaching him that he is accountable to God for his behavior that we are seeing an amazing change in our son. He's still only 7 but now when he gets angry at not being in control, he stops himself and finds other things to do to calm down. He'll rush for his little drawing desk, for example, and say to himself, "I will not sin....I will not be angry....I will not say mean things....." and start to draw, immediately switching into Sweet Child. It is scary. Their behavior is strange. But it doesn't help for us to be in an emotional state of fear either.As far as why your husband needs to find another place to watch his movies, or get rid of all of them that contain violence and killing - it's confusing for any children, but especially Aspies, to see an act of killing and to understand it is "only" pretend. You don't want it embedded in your son's head that if he shoots someone (skip the gun training - you have two decades before you should even consider that) it's "only" pretend - that they'll come back to life in another movie, etc. Sharon

On 8/26/07, Jeff and Jodi <jjkgardeniersbcglobal (DOT) net> wrote:

Jeff and I are doing our best to teach right from wrong. I have good support groups. We are getting great help - school, speech, psychitrist, riding therapy, TKD, meds, church. Any other suggestions would be welcome.Usually is a very sweet and caring little boy. But when he gets mad it can be scary! He is only four but very strong and very determined. He can get out of control in an instant and then just as suddenly he is back to his happy-go-lucky self like nothing happened.I wish I could get Jeff to stop watching violent movies. I try to keep distracted elsewhere while Jeff is watching a movie. Jeff loves westerns and action movies. He doesn't smoke, drink or swear or have any other serious vices and I would hate to take away his movies.Jeff is a very easy going and caring husband and father and respects women. I'm grateful for him. And he is a great Daddy. But I need to talk to him about the movies. I'm assuming the movies is where he got the idea to shoot Mom.I need to get to bed and stop worrying. Thanks for lending an ear.Jodi-- Deut 11:14 He will put grass in the fields for your cattle, and you will have plenty to eat.

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