Guest guest Posted August 28, 2007 Report Share Posted August 28, 2007 SO how many children share you and your spouses bed? From: Autism and Aspergers Treatment [mailto:Autism and Aspergers Treatment ] On Behalf Of sunrose101@... Sent: Monday, August 27, 2007 7:39 PM Autism and Aspergers Treatment Subject: Re: Re: pondering sleeping arrangements Dear Deb, Well I just remembered the comedian's name: Sam Levenson. It wasn't a Jewish custom, but rather that the family was very poor. When I said 'cultural', I didn't mean other nationalities of the Western world, but rather much different ways of living. It would appear from most of the media and even the thought that would take " The Family Bed " to lead to sex, that America, and I'm sure now, other countries who so want to be like us, is obsessed with sex. Perhaps it is the constant promotion of sex that has encouraged child molestation? One of my stepdaughters took a course in high school about sex in advertisements, and she was constantly pointing out all the obvious and 'subliminal' sexual messages in media ads. As far as sleeping with parents impeding self-reliance, I don't think so. And as far as autism goes, whatever gentle thing comforts our children and lessens the stress they feel, who is anyone to judge it? As another stepdaughter said, who loved to quote Chief ph: We shouldn't judge anyone until we've walked a mile in their mocassins. Again, we can all agree to disagree. Love, Francine In a message dated 8/27/2007 2:13:13 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, debhitchcockmchsi writes: My comments are under yours…see below. From: Autism and Aspergers Treatment [mailto:Autism and Aspergers Treatment ] On Behalf Of sunrose101aol Sent: Monday, August 27, 2007 8:48 AM Autism and Aspergers Treatment Subject: Re: Re: pondering sleeping arrangements Well, I guess I'll respond to your email Deb, since it's to my response about agreeing to disagree. What shows up for me here is just how much we are products of our cultural beliefs -- either in agreement or in disregard of them. <<<Sleeping with your children in other believes, cultural settings was not the topic. However, since cultural beliefs has been brought into this subject agreed or disagreed, disregarded or not; “products of our cultural beliefs” is in the view you have currently. It maybe true most people view it this way from the cultural environment. That is their right, what they believe, such as you. Besides, I am not convinced it’s entirely cultural subjected. I have not seen statistics that gives me figures of how much is “cultural” and how much is not. I would need more proof for you to convince me on what is morally right and what is cultural. I think that is a huge difference in the original subject than what was posted. >>>>> My guess is that psychologically-oriented, sex-obsessed, uptight America has much more child sexual abuse -- than other, more relaxed cultures. <<<<< How do you know this, give me the statistics, in figures and from a reasonable source. “Uptight America” as you put it hasn’t gotten there for any reason. Children have been de moralized due to certain acts that are morally wrong in every cultural insight. Liberals mainly think this way as you do does it mean they are from another cultural? Relaxed cultural maybe contributing to why America’s children has more child sexual abuse have you ever thought that? Again, there are no statistics that give your statements the truth. America is what it is and there are a lot of cultural oriented people here. This doesn’t mean that it is uptight America when other cultures also sexually abuse children too, in America I might add. It’s my opinion when someone moves here from another country they have a right to practice their own cultural beliefs as long as it doesn’t affect children in a harmful way. Uptight or not, America’s opinion what is based on what is morally wrong. I have never mentioned sexuality. Since you mentioned it, I can’t see where Americans are obsessed with it. >>>>> I can remember a famous Jewish comedian, in his autobiography, writing about how all eight kids in his family slept together. Now we know that brother-sister abuse happens; so is the incidence of it higher in poor families with tight living arrangement? Probably not. <<< Who really cares what Jewish families do-their cultural their families. I just made the comment about how a child doesn’t develop self skills by sleeping with an adult. >>>> There actually is a genuine ... warmth of spirit -- for lack of better words -- in closeness, that is spontaneously natural and normal to us, that has nothing to do with sex and everything to do with an acknowledgment that we all want that closeness. My high school friends and I slept together on sleepovers. If anyone had suggested this was improper (and our parents obviously didn't think so) we would have been horrified. Were our teenaged minds obsessed with sex? Absolutely! We talked about it constantly, one way or another. However, not with each other! This is how it is with families that sleep together. Sleeping together is a shared family/friend communion (remember slumber parties?). Sex is something else again, and in my day -- at least! -- was more associated with a car or a beach than a bed! (Smiling fondly at some memories.) One Christmas eve, when my daughter was in high school, a bunch of other kids whose families didn't celebrate Christmas (Jewish, atheist, Hindu) seemed to spontaneously decide that they wanted to spend Christmas Eve with us [since God is such a Center to our lives]. So about ten of us slept in the living room with the tree! It was a really lovely experience, boys and girls. They were here for God, not sex. It has been said that we are to look into our brothers' and sisters' eyes and remember God. I think, to some extent, the experience of communal sleeping fosters that Oneness. Love, Francine In a message dated 8/27/2007 3:04:33 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time, debhitchcockmchsi writes: I haven’t followed this post all the way through. However, I do know the subject is “teens sleeping with Adults”. This is all I know and my opinion is; it is what it is. Everyone has their own opinions. I just wanted to add mine. I will be objectionable and say if all else fails about whether it’s right or wrong maybe someone (and I don’t look at the names here) someone hasn’t thought about this one: When a child sleeps with a parent they begin to rely on the parent being there for safety and security reasons. It is difficult to have a child with Autism but it’s even more difficult to get the kids where they need to be in the world. It’s hard for NT kids to leave their parents bed and when a parent gets used to that child being there for whatever reason they are depriving their child of getting their child to become secure in themselves. So in reality if you think you are soothing your child as a parent may in this situation, you are actually depriving the chance in becoming independent. We all know our challenges with our kids and these challenges with Autistic kids only are bigger compared to NT (Neuro typical) kids. For example: When a teenager enters middle school their hormones change, peer pressure is much more manifested. A kid with Autism entering middle school has ten times the challenges to face. In all regards, it best suits the child (teenager) to learn self taught skills that are much more challenging with Autistic kids. Society will look at this totally different as well and if we want our Autistic kids to be normal as possible, to live within the world around us, to get along with others. It is in reason to say our Autistic children will need to learn differently. This is not the best learning curb for the child. ly, I do agree it’s wrong although; thought it was right. (No pun intended) The world or America looked upon this as abnormal and sexual content was added by some people. It’s suspicious in looking in as “normal” behaviors. Judge mental? If someone didn’t post this expecting it to be subjected to more a debatable than the post should have never entered. From: Autism and Aspergers Treatment [mailto:Autism and Aspergers Treatment ] On Behalf Of sunrose101aol Sent: Sunday, August 26, 2007 9:40 PM Autism and Aspergers Treatment Subject: Re: Re: pondering sleeping arrangements :*) Good night Jodi. In a message dated 8/26/2007 9:51:39 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, jjkgardeniersbcglobal (DOT) net writes: You are a dear Francine. I once was very shy and would never stick up for myself and now I sometimes go overboard. Yes, lets just agree to disagree. =) Thanks and bless you. Jodi > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -------Original Message----- -- > > > > > > > > From: Jeff and Jodi > > > > Date: 20/08/2007 9:11:14 PM > > > > > > > > Now, I can see other beds or mats on the floor in the same > room > > > even > > > > After puberty but NOT under the same covers! I hope that in > > other > > > > Countries they draw a line at puberty. Even if it is to have > > > someone > > > > Sleep on the floor. > > > > > > > > ************ **** **** > > > > The short answer is no. Even in the New Testament there is a > > > story where a > > > > man doesn't want to get up in the night because his whole > > family > > > is in bed > > > > with him. Most cultures are not as obsessed with, or paranoid > > > about, sex as > > > > America and some other parts of the West are, and the thought > > that > > > sharing a > > > > bed necessarily or even probably means sex would be > considered > > > strange - > > > > especially in a family context. In some parts of the world, > the > > > idea of not > > > > sharing a bed with someone would be strange. In some > cultures, > > > the biggest > > > > social sin is to allow a guest or family member to be alone - > > even > > > when > > > > sleeping. It may not be what you are comfortable with, but > not > > > everyone > > > > shares your values. That's just life, whether we like it or > > not. > > > On a > > > > group like this where people from almost anywhere can join, > > there > > > are > > > > inevitably going to be times when you will not like or > approve > > of > > > someone > > > > else's way of life. In the global scheme of things, Western > > > culture is a a > > > > minority. Every year we become a smaller minority, so we just > > > have to get > > > > used to people doing things differently. As long as we can > live > > > the way we > > > > believe to be right, we should allow others the same > privilege. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ************ ******** ******** ************<WBR>*********<WBR>***** > all- > > new AOL at > > > _http://discover.http://discovehttp://disco_ > (http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ************************************** Get a sneak peek of the all- new AOL at > http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour > Get a sneak peek of the all-new AOL.com. No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.484 / Virus Database: 269.12.8/973 - Release Date: 8/25/2007 5:00 PM No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.484 / Virus Database: 269.12.8/973 - Release Date: 8/25/2007 5:00 PM Get a sneak peek of the all-new AOL.com. No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.484 / Virus Database: 269.12.9/975 - Release Date: 8/26/2007 9:34 PM No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.484 / Virus Database: 269.12.9/975 - Release Date: 8/26/2007 9:34 PM Get a sneak peek of the all-new AOL.com. No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.484 / Virus Database: 269.12.9/975 - Release Date: 8/26/2007 9:34 PM No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.484 / Virus Database: 269.12.9/975 - Release Date: 8/26/2007 9:34 PM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 28, 2007 Report Share Posted August 28, 2007 I had the same problem for a very long time during moderation. Some of my posts took days to go through or where lost? But I asked to be taken off moderation and now they are probably wishing they would have kept me on it! =) Jodi > > I agree , also why run the chance of someone misunderstanding and you being charged with a crime that never happend.i am posting replys but for some reason mine arnt going through ones i sent 2 days ago havnt showed up but yet ones peeople posted today are being posted left and right i am not being offensive in anyway so why are they not > being posted > > any ideas Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 28, 2007 Report Share Posted August 28, 2007 Well everyone's grown now, and whoever came in, or wanted to, usually it was the two youngest. When we wanted to make love, we'd just get up and go to another bedroom! Mostly it was in the summer -- when my stepkids came for a long time -- that all six kids would want to sleep together, usually in our tent, and usually my husband -- who had trouble being too mentally intimate (as in dealing with others' feelings) would want to be by himself. It was a very nice time, when we could all talk, as we lay there, and they could bring up things that were harder to say face to face, I think. My daughter and I often remember an exciting time one summer, before my stepkids and husband came up to our farm, when we'd gone right away with a dear teenage friend who was one of our patterning volunteers, the two youngest and I. The four of us slept in our tent, and one night it rained so hard that the tent had water pouring through the canvas ceiling and we were about 4 inches floating in water before the kids woke up! As a kid, I just loved my mother laying down with me, like spoons, while I went to sleep, and often called for her in the middle of the night when I woke and was afraid of monsters. We shared a room when I was an adult too, later on. I just haven't ever associated sleeping together with sex, but rather with warmth, and comfort. Love, Francine In a message dated 8/27/2007 11:07:32 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, debhitchcock@... writes: SO how many children share you and your spouses bed? From: Autism and Aspergers Treatment [mailto:Autism and Aspergers Treatment ] On Behalf Of sunrose101aolSent: Monday, August 27, 2007 7:39 PMAutism and Aspergers Treatment Subject: Re: Re: pondering sleeping arrangements Dear Deb, Well I just remembered the comedian's name: Sam Levenson. It wasn't a Jewish custom, but rather that the family was very poor. When I said 'cultural', I didn't mean other nationalities of the Western world, but rather much different ways of living. It would appear from most of the media and even the thought that would take "The Family Bed" to lead to sex, that America, and I'm sure now, other countries who so want to be like us, is obsessed with sex. Perhaps it is the constant promotion of sex that has encouraged child molestation? One of my stepdaughters took a course in high school about sex in advertisements, and she was constantly pointing out all the obvious and 'subliminal' sexual messages in media ads. As far as sleeping with parents impeding self-reliance, I don't think so. And as far as autism goes, whatever gentle thing comforts our children and lessens the stress they feel, who is anyone to judge it? As another stepdaughter said, who loved to quote Chief ph: We shouldn't judge anyone until we've walked a mile in their mocassins. Again, we can all agree to disagree. Love, Francine In a message dated 8/27/2007 2:13:13 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, debhitchcockmchsi writes: My comments are under yours…see below. From: Autism and Aspergers Treatment [mailto:Autism and Aspergers Treatment ] On Behalf Of sunrose101aolSent: Monday, August 27, 2007 8:48 AMAutism and Aspergers Treatment Subject: Re: Re: pondering sleeping arrangements Well, I guess I'll respond to your email Deb, since it's to my response about agreeing to disagree. What shows up for me here is just how much we are products of our cultural beliefs -- either in agreement or in disregard of them. <<<Sleeping with your children in other believes, cultural settings was not the topic. However, since cultural beliefs has been brought into this subject agreed or disagreed, disregarded or not; “products of our cultural beliefs†is in the view you have currently. It maybe true most people view it this way from the cultural environment. That is their right, what they believe, such as you. Besides, I am not convinced it’s entirely cultural subjected. I have not seen statistics that gives me figures of how much is “cultural†and how much is not. I would need more proof for you to convince me on what is morally right and what is cultural. I think that is a huge difference in the original subject than what was posted. >>>>> My guess is that psychologically-oriented, sex-obsessed, uptight America has much more child sexual abuse -- than other, more relaxed cultures. <<<<< How do you know this, give me the statistics, in figures and from a reasonable source. “Uptight America†as you put it hasn’t gotten there for any reason. Children have been de moralized due to certain acts that are morally wrong in every cultural insight. Liberals mainly think this way as you do does it mean they are from another cultural? Relaxed cultural maybe contributing to why America’s children has more child sexual abuse have you ever thought that? Again, there are no statistics that give your statements the truth. America is what it is and there are a lot of cultural oriented people here. This doesn’t mean that it is uptight America when other cultures also sexually abuse children too, in America I might add. It’s my opinion when someone moves here from another country they have a right to practice their own cultural beliefs as long as it doesn’t affect children in a harmful way. Uptight or not, America’s opinion what is based on what is morally wrong. I have never mentioned sexuality. Since you mentioned it, I can’t see where Americans are obsessed with it. >>>>> I can remember a famous Jewish comedian, in his autobiography, writing about how all eight kids in his family slept together. Now we know that brother-sister abuse happens; so is the incidence of it higher in poor families with tight living arrangement? Probably not. <<< Who really cares what Jewish families do-their cultural their families. I just made the comment about how a child doesn’t develop self skills by sleeping with an adult. >>>> There actually is a genuine ... warmth of spirit -- for lack of better words -- in closeness, that is spontaneously natural and normal to us, that has nothing to do with sex and everything to do with an acknowledgment that we all want that closeness. My high school friends and I slept together on sleepovers. If anyone had suggested this was improper (and our parents obviously didn't think so) we would have been horrified. Were our teenaged minds obsessed with sex? Absolutely! We talked about it constantly, one way or another. However, not with each other! This is how it is with families that sleep together. Sleeping together is a shared family/friend communion (remember slumber parties?). Sex is something else again, and in my day -- at least! -- was more associated with a car or a beach than a bed! (Smiling fondly at some memories.) One Christmas eve, when my daughter was in high school, a bunch of other kids whose families didn't celebrate Christmas (Jewish, atheist, Hindu) seemed to spontaneously decide that they wanted to spend Christmas Eve with us [since God is such a Center to our lives]. So about ten of us slept in the living room with the tree! It was a really lovely experience, boys and girls. They were here for God, not sex. It has been said that we are to look into our brothers' and sisters' eyes and remember God. I think, to some extent, the experience of communal sleeping fosters that Oneness. Love, Francine In a message dated 8/27/2007 3:04:33 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time, debhitchcockmchsi writes: I haven’t followed this post all the way through. However, I do know the subject is “teens sleeping with Adultsâ€. This is all I know and my opinion is; it is what it is. Everyone has their own opinions. I just wanted to add mine. I will be objectionable and say if all else fails about whether it’s right or wrong maybe someone (and I don’t look at the names here) someone hasn’t thought about this one: When a child sleeps with a parent they begin to rely on the parent being there for safety and security reasons. It is difficult to have a child with Autism but it’s even more difficult to get the kids where they need to be in the world. It’s hard for NT kids to leave their parents bed and when a parent gets used to that child being there for whatever reason they are depriving their child of getting their child to become secure in themselves. So in reality if you think you are soothing your child as a parent may in this situation, you are actually depriving the chance in becoming independent. We all know our challenges with our kids and these challenges with Autistic kids only are bigger compared to NT (Neuro typical) kids. For example: When a teenager enters middle school their hormones change, peer pressure is much more manifested. A kid with Autism entering middle school has ten times the challenges to face. In all regards, it best suits the child (teenager) to learn self taught skills that are much more challenging with Autistic kids. Society will look at this totally different as well and if we want our Autistic kids to be normal as possible, to live within the world around us, to get along with others. It is in reason to say our Autistic children will need to learn differently. This is not the best learning curb for the child. ly, I do agree it’s wrong although; thought it was right. (No pun intended) The world or America looked upon this as abnormal and sexual content was added by some people. It’s suspicious in looking in as “normal†behaviors. Judge mental? If someone didn’t post this expecting it to be subjected to more a debatable than the post should have never entered. From: Autism and Aspergers Treatment [mailto:Autism and Aspergers Treatment ] On Behalf Of sunrose101aolSent: Sunday, August 26, 2007 9:40 PMAutism and Aspergers Treatment Subject: Re: Re: pondering sleeping arrangements :*) Good night Jodi. In a message dated 8/26/2007 9:51:39 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, jjkgardeniersbcglobal (DOT) net writes: You are a dear Francine. I once was very shy and would never stick up for myself and now I sometimes go overboard. Yes, lets just agree to disagree. =) Thanks and bless you. Jodi> > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > -------Original Message----- --> > > > > > > > From: Jeff and Jodi > > > > Date: 20/08/2007 9:11:14 PM > > > > > > > > Now, I can see other beds or mats on the floor in the same > room > > > even > > > > After puberty but NOT under the same covers! I hope that in > > other > > > > Countries they draw a line at puberty. Even if it is to have > > > someone > > > > Sleep on the floor. > > > > > > > > ************ **** **** > > > > The short answer is no. Even in the New Testament there is a > > > story where a> > > > man doesn't want to get up in the night because his whole > > family > > > is in bed> > > > with him. Most cultures are not as obsessed with, or paranoid > > > about, sex as> > > > America and some other parts of the West are, and the thought > > that > > > sharing a> > > > bed necessarily or even probably means sex would be > considered > > > strange -> > > > especially in a family context. In some parts of the world, > the > > > idea of not> > > > sharing a bed with someone would be strange. In some > cultures, > > > the biggest> > > > social sin is to allow a guest or family member to be alone - > > even > > > when> > > > sleeping. It may not be what you are comfortable with, but > not > > > everyone> > > > shares your values. That's just life, whether we like it or > > not. > > > On a> > > > group like this where people from almost anywhere can join, > > there > > > are> > > > inevitably going to be times when you will not like or > approve > > of > > > someone> > > > else's way of life. In the global scheme of things, Western > > > culture is a a> > > > minority. Every year we become a smaller minority, so we just > > > have to get> > > > used to people doing things differently. As long as we can > live > > > the way we> > > > believe to be right, we should allow others the same > privilege.> > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ************ ******** ******** ************<WBR>*********<WBR>*****> all-> > new AOL at > > > _http://discover.http://discovehttp://disco_ > (http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour) > > >> >> > > > > > > > > > ************************************** Get a sneak peek of the all-new AOL at > http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour> Get a sneak peek of the all-new AOL.com. No virus found in this incoming message.Checked by AVG Free Edition.Version: 7.5.484 / Virus Database: 269.12.8/973 - Release Date: 8/25/2007 5:00 PM No virus found in this outgoing message.Checked by AVG Free Edition.Version: 7.5.484 / Virus Database: 269.12.8/973 - Release Date: 8/25/2007 5:00 PM Get a sneak peek of the all-new AOL.com. No virus found in this incoming message.Checked by AVG Free Edition.Version: 7.5.484 / Virus Database: 269.12.9/975 - Release Date: 8/26/2007 9:34 PM No virus found in this outgoing message.Checked by AVG Free Edition.Version: 7.5.484 / Virus Database: 269.12.9/975 - Release Date: 8/26/2007 9:34 PM Get a sneak peek of the all-new AOL.com. No virus found in this incoming message.Checked by AVG Free Edition.Version: 7.5.484 / Virus Database: 269.12.9/975 - Release Date: 8/26/2007 9:34 PM No virus found in this outgoing message.Checked by AVG Free Edition.Version: 7.5.484 / Virus Database: 269.12.9/975 - Release Date: 8/26/2007 9:34 PM Get a sneak peek of the all-new AOL.com. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 29, 2007 Report Share Posted August 29, 2007 I'm having a day off from study, so thought I would put my years of study to good use. Not to start an argument again, but just to show we are [almost] all [almost] normal, I spent a bit of time checking on sleeping arrangements around the world. From the time when we huddled in caves and put granny on the outside to watch over the fire and scream loudly if a cave bear came too close, sleeping as a family seems to have been the preferred option in much of Europe and western Asia, as well as being common in other areas. Most houses had only one bed or sleeping space. And as the houses were usually no more than 12x12 feet and included cooking, sleeping and working areas, you just couldn't get away from family. The long house that is common in SE Asia and also found in the Americas is similar, except that the houses are joined up and kids have a choice of which family they spend the night with. In Australia we slept around the fire or in a hut/shelter in family groups. Another common pattern - which avoids the potential problems our discussion brought up - is where girls are married off at the first sign of puberty and boys have moved into " men's " houses before then. Sometimes the boys moved into a family house with their wife after marriage, sometimes all the men remained in the men's house for life and visited their wife/wive's houses as the mood took them. [Just as a side issue - in China, mostly to avoid conflict with MIL, a girl often moved into her future husband's home when only a few years old. The problem was, by the time they hit puberty and it was time for the marriage to be consummated, too many thought of each other more as brother/sister and did not want to. There seems to be a natural antipathy to sex with people you know too well. I will avoid making comments on marriage at this point ] Men's houses are associated with a number of cultures where some provision is made for providing sexual relief for young men who are not yet married [ie ~ 12-16 yo]. I guess it makes it easier than when Mum and Dad are 6 inches away. I will delete the details, as they would undoubtedly offend/worry some. Our pattern of kids sleeping separately from their parents also goes back a long way and seems to occur in various places all over the world. I guess where parents can do so, most take the opportunity. Where there is a good chance of your neighbours coming and killing/kidnapping the kids during the night [much of the world for most of history] keeping them as close as possible has its advantages. Hammocks are the type of bed least associated with family-together sleeping. I guess there are good reasons for that Just on the question of sex with kids - the most common reaction world wide is either " people really do that?! " or " that is as weird as sex with chickens! " [or appropriate local fauna]. Just thought I would add that so no one gets the idea that because sleeping patterns are different in other parts of the world that it indicates that kids aren't taken care of. I have not yet come across a culture where children are considered to be acceptable sexual partners for adults. The question of when a child becomes an adult is a totally different issue and one I'm not going to touch! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 31, 2007 Report Share Posted August 31, 2007 Good research . Thanks for an interesting and informational read. Francine In a message dated 8/31/2007 1:37:23 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time, klriley@... writes: I'm having a day off from study, so thought I would put my years of study togood use. Not to start an argument again, but just to show we are [almost]all [almost] normal, I spent a bit of time checking on sleeping arrangementsaround the world. From the time when we huddled in caves and put granny onthe outside to watch over the fire and scream loudly if a cave bear came tooclose, sleeping as a family seems to have been the preferred option in muchof Europe and western Asia, as well as being common in other areas. Mosthouses had only one bed or sleeping space. And as the houses were usuallyno more than 12x12 feet and included cooking, sleeping and working areas,you just couldn't get away from family. The long house that is common in SEAsia and also found in the Americas is similar, except that the houses arejoined up and kids have a choice of which family they spend the night with. In Australia we slept around the fire or in a hut/shelter in family groups. Another common pattern - which avoids the potential problems our discussionbrought up - is where girls are married off at the first sign of puberty andboys have moved into "men's" houses before then. Sometimes the boys movedinto a family house with their wife after marriage, sometimes all the menremained in the men's house for life and visited their wife/wive's houses asthe mood took them. [Just as a side issue - in China, mostly to avoidconflict with MIL, a girl often moved into her future husband's home whenonly a few years old. The problem was, by the time they hit puberty and itwas time for the marriage to be consummated, too many thought of each othermore as brother/sister and did not want to. There seems to be a naturalantipathy to sex with people you know too well. I will avoid makingcomments on marriage at this point ] Men's houses are associated with anumber of cultures where some provision is made for providing sexual relieffor young men who are not yet married [ie ~ 12-16 yo]. I guess it makes iteasier than when Mum and Dad are 6 inches away. I will delete the details,as they would undoubtedly offend/worry some. Our pattern of kids sleepingseparately from their parents also goes back a long way and seems to occurin various places all over the world. I guess where parents can do so, mosttake the opportunity. Where there is a good chance of your neighbourscoming and killing/kidnapping the kids during the night [much of the worldfor most of history] keeping them as close as possible has its advantages. Hammocks are the type of bed least associated with family-together sleeping.I guess there are good reasons for that Just on the question of sex with kids - the most common reaction world wideis either "people really do that?!" or "that is as weird as sex withchickens!" [or appropriate local fauna]. Just thought I would add that sono one gets the idea that because sleeping patterns are different in otherparts of the world that it indicates that kids aren't taken care of. I havenot yet come across a culture where children are considered to be acceptablesexual partners for adults. The question of when a child becomes an adultis a totally different issue and one I'm not going to touch! Get a sneak peek of the all-new AOL.com. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 31, 2007 Report Share Posted August 31, 2007 , are you in Australia? My hubby is and we live in the USA. From: Autism and Aspergers Treatment [mailto:Autism and Aspergers Treatment ] On Behalf Of Riley Sent: Tuesday, August 28, 2007 6:59 PM Autism and Aspergers Treatment Subject: Re: Re: pondering sleeping arrangements I'm having a day off from study, so thought I would put my years of study to good use. Not to start an argument again, but just to show we are [almost] all [almost] normal, I spent a bit of time checking on sleeping arrangements around the world. From the time when we huddled in caves and put granny on the outside to watch over the fire and scream loudly if a cave bear came too close, sleeping as a family seems to have been the preferred option in much of Europe and western Asia, as well as being common in other areas. Most houses had only one bed or sleeping space. And as the houses were usually no more than 12x12 feet and included cooking, sleeping and working areas, you just couldn't get away from family. The long house that is common in SE Asia and also found in the Americas is similar, except that the houses are joined up and kids have a choice of which family they spend the night with. In Australia we slept around the fire or in a hut/shelter in family groups. Another common pattern - which avoids the potential problems our discussion brought up - is where girls are married off at the first sign of puberty and boys have moved into " men's " houses before then. Sometimes the boys moved into a family house with their wife after marriage, sometimes all the men remained in the men's house for life and visited their wife/wive's houses as the mood took them. [Just as a side issue - in China, mostly to avoid conflict with MIL, a girl often moved into her future husband's home when only a few years old. The problem was, by the time they hit puberty and it was time for the marriage to be consummated, too many thought of each other more as brother/sister and did not want to. There seems to be a natural antipathy to sex with people you know too well. I will avoid making comments on marriage at this point ] Men's houses are associated with a number of cultures where some provision is made for providing sexual relief for young men who are not yet married [ie ~ 12-16 yo]. I guess it makes it easier than when Mum and Dad are 6 inches away. I will delete the details, as they would undoubtedly offend/worry some. Our pattern of kids sleeping separately from their parents also goes back a long way and seems to occur in various places all over the world. I guess where parents can do so, most take the opportunity. Where there is a good chance of your neighbours coming and killing/kidnapping the kids during the night [much of the world for most of history] keeping them as close as possible has its advantages. Hammocks are the type of bed least associated with family-together sleeping. I guess there are good reasons for that Just on the question of sex with kids - the most common reaction world wide is either " people really do that?! " or " that is as weird as sex with chickens! " [or appropriate local fauna]. Just thought I would add that so no one gets the idea that because sleeping patterns are different in other parts of the world that it indicates that kids aren't taken care of. I have not yet come across a culture where children are considered to be acceptable sexual partners for adults. The question of when a child becomes an adult is a totally different issue and one I'm not going to touch! No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.484 / Virus Database: 269.12.12/979 - Release Date: 8/29/2007 8:21 PM No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.484 / Virus Database: 269.13.1/981 - Release Date: 8/31/2007 6:13 AM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 31, 2007 Report Share Posted August 31, 2007 Wow , that was really interesting, thank you for all the hard work putting that together for us. Where you said that some parents keep their kids close to protect them, that is what I did with my autistic retarded son when he was little. We moved to a big house with an upstairs and I figured he could sleep up there with his two brothers, but when he jumped out the window one day I figured he would have to sleep by me. So we put his bed in our bedroom and he has been there ever since, so he is close and I can watch him. But now my husband and I no longer sleep in there, as he died, and I sleep upstairs, but with all the door open and attentive to every little noise. And as I read your report I realized that children having separate bedrooms probably has something to do with economics, the poorer the people the smaller their houses. With us here in America we are quite wealthy and can afford bigger homes for our entire families so hence the different sleeping arrangements. Privacy is expensive. Thanks again, Carolyn Re: Re: pondering sleeping arrangements I'm having a day off from study, so thought I would put my years of study togood use. Not to start an argument again, but just to show we are [almost]all [almost] normal, I spent a bit of time checking on sleeping arrangementsaround the world. From the time when we huddled in caves and put granny onthe outside to watch over the fire and scream loudly if a cave bear came tooclose, sleeping as a family seems to have been the preferred option in muchof Europe and western Asia, as well as being common in other areas. Mosthouses had only one bed or sleeping space. And as the houses were usuallyno more than 12x12 feet and included cooking, sleeping and working areas,you just couldn't get away from family. The long house that is common in SEAsia and also found in the Americas is similar, except that the houses arejoined up and kids have a choice of which family they spend the night with. In Australia we slept around the fire or in a hut/shelter in family groups. Another common pattern - which avoids the potential problems our discussionbrought up - is where girls are married off at the first sign of puberty andboys have moved into "men's" houses before then. Sometimes the boys movedinto a family house with their wife after marriage, sometimes all the menremained in the men's house for life and visited their wife/wive's houses asthe mood took them. [Just as a side issue - in China, mostly to avoidconflict with MIL, a girl often moved into her future husband's home whenonly a few years old. The problem was, by the time they hit puberty and itwas time for the marriage to be consummated, too many thought of each othermore as brother/sister and did not want to. There seems to be a naturalantipathy to sex with people you know too well. I will avoid makingcomments on marriage at this point ] Men's houses are associated with anumber of cultures where some provision is made for providing sexual relieffor young men who are not yet married [ie ~ 12-16 yo]. I guess it makes iteasier than when Mum and Dad are 6 inches away. I will delete the details,as they would undoubtedly offend/worry some. Our pattern of kids sleepingseparately from their parents also goes back a long way and seems to occurin various places all over the world. I guess where parents can do so, mosttake the opportunity. Where there is a good chance of your neighbourscoming and killing/kidnapping the kids during the night [much of the worldfor most of history] keeping them as close as possible has its advantages. Hammocks are the type of bed least associated with family-together sleeping.I guess there are good reasons for that Just on the question of sex with kids - the most common reaction world wideis either "people really do that?!" or "that is as weird as sex withchickens!" [or appropriate local fauna]. Just thought I would add that sono one gets the idea that because sleeping patterns are different in otherparts of the world that it indicates that kids aren't taken care of. I havenot yet come across a culture where children are considered to be acceptablesexual partners for adults. The question of when a child becomes an adultis a totally different issue and one I'm not going to touch! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 31, 2007 Report Share Posted August 31, 2007 I will say it again! Sleeping is about being asleep! Our kids just feel better in the same room! Everyone on there own Mat. If my folks had not had the family bed I really don't know that I would have done so. Plus looking back now that dad is gone I can remeber never being afraid of the bogey man in the closet because daddy was in the room! When hubby and I where looking for a new house one thing we knew we wanted was a room big enough for our mats! Even now my family is very close! I am 32 my cousin is 55 and I still sit in her lap! She is the last person on the planet that calls me her baby! And the girls are 13, & 15 my brother and sister are 21 & 19 I raised them after dad died and both are here since yesterday for laborday weekend and sure enough they put there sleeping bags right near us! I can still kiss both without a fuss! I think kids need to be safe and when asleep Parents can sneak off and have sex! Like the first post said we need to understand that while there are some sickos out there I KNOW I AM NOT ONE OF THEM! > > Wow , that was really interesting, thank you for all the hard work putting that together for us. Where you said that some parents keep their kids close to protect them, that is what I did with my autistic retarded son when he was little. We moved to a big house with an upstairs and I figured he could sleep up there with his two brothers, but when he jumped out the window one day I figured he would have to sleep by me. > > So we put his bed in our bedroom and he has been there ever since, so he is close and I can watch him. But now my husband and I no longer sleep in there, as he died, and I sleep upstairs, but with all the door open and attentive to every little noise. > > And as I read your report I realized that children having separate bedrooms probably has something to do with economics, the poorer the people the smaller their houses. With us here in America we are quite wealthy and can afford bigger homes for our entire families so hence the different sleeping arrangements. Privacy is expensive. > > Thanks again, > Carolyn > > Re: Re: pondering sleeping arrangements > > > I'm having a day off from study, so thought I would put my years of study to > good use. Not to start an argument again, but just to show we are [almost] > all [almost] normal, I spent a bit of time checking on sleeping arrangements > around the world. From the time when we huddled in caves and put granny on > the outside to watch over the fire and scream loudly if a cave bear came too > close, sleeping as a family seems to have been the preferred option in much > of Europe and western Asia, as well as being common in other areas. Most > houses had only one bed or sleeping space. And as the houses were usually > no more than 12x12 feet and included cooking, sleeping and working areas, > you just couldn't get away from family. The long house that is common in SE > Asia and also found in the Americas is similar, except that the houses are > joined up and kids have a choice of which family they spend the night with. > In Australia we slept around the fire or in a hut/shelter in family groups. > Another common pattern - which avoids the potential problems our discussion > brought up - is where girls are married off at the first sign of puberty and > boys have moved into " men's " houses before then. Sometimes the boys moved > into a family house with their wife after marriage, sometimes all the men > remained in the men's house for life and visited their wife/wive's houses as > the mood took them. [Just as a side issue - in China, mostly to avoid > conflict with MIL, a girl often moved into her future husband's home when > only a few years old. The problem was, by the time they hit puberty and it > was time for the marriage to be consummated, too many thought of each other > more as brother/sister and did not want to. There seems to be a natural > antipathy to sex with people you know too well. I will avoid making > comments on marriage at this point ] Men's houses are associated with a > number of cultures where some provision is made for providing sexual relief > for young men who are not yet married [ie ~ 12-16 yo]. I guess it makes it > easier than when Mum and Dad are 6 inches away. I will delete the details, > as they would undoubtedly offend/worry some. Our pattern of kids sleeping > separately from their parents also goes back a long way and seems to occur > in various places all over the world. I guess where parents can do so, most > take the opportunity. Where there is a good chance of your neighbours > coming and killing/kidnapping the kids during the night [much of the world > for most of history] keeping them as close as possible has its advantages. > Hammocks are the type of bed least associated with family-together sleeping. > I guess there are good reasons for that > > Just on the question of sex with kids - the most common reaction world wide > is either " people really do that?! " or " that is as weird as sex with > chickens! " [or appropriate local fauna]. Just thought I would add that so > no one gets the idea that because sleeping patterns are different in other > parts of the world that it indicates that kids aren't taken care of. I have > not yet come across a culture where children are considered to be acceptable > sexual partners for adults. The question of when a child becomes an adult > is a totally different issue and one I'm not going to touch! > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 3, 2007 Report Share Posted September 3, 2007 -------Original Message------- From: Deborah Date: 1/09/2007 2:28:02 AM , are you in Australia? My hubby is and we live in the USA. ***************************** Yes, I live in Melbourne, , but grew up in northern New South Wales. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 3, 2007 Report Share Posted September 3, 2007 I love this. It is actually fun to sneak off! And I think I said about being afraid of bears and other monsters a lot when in bed alone, in my own room. Please tell me your name again. It's hard responding to no name, for me at least! Francine In a message dated 9/2/2007 11:02:11 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, valet_4u@... writes: I will say it again! Sleeping is about being asleep! Our kids just feel better in the same room! Everyone on there own Mat. If my folks had not had the family bed I really don't know that I would have done so. Plus looking back now that dad is gone I can remeber never being afraid of the bogey man in the closet because daddy was in the room! When hubby and I where looking for a new house one thing we knew we wanted was a room big enough for our mats! Even now my family is very close! I am 32 my cousin is 55 and I still sit in her lap! She is the last person on the planet that calls me her baby! And the girls are 13, & 15 my brother and sister are 21 & 19 I raised them after dad died and both are here since yesterday for laborday weekend and sure enough they put there sleeping bags right near us! I can still kiss both without a fuss! I think kids need to be safe and when asleep Parents can sneak off and have sex! Like the first post said we need to understand that while there are some sickos out there I KNOW I AM NOT ONE OF THEM! >> Wow , that was really interesting, thank you for all the hard work putting that together for us. Where you said that some parents keep their kids close to protect them, that is what I did with my autistic retarded son when he was little. We moved to a big house with an upstairs and I figured he could sleep up there with his two brothers, but when he jumped out the window one day I figured he would have to sleep by me. > > So we put his bed in our bedroom and he has been there ever since, so he is close and I can watch him. But now my husband and I no longer sleep in there, as he died, and I sleep upstairs, but with all the door open and attentive to every little noise.> > And as I read your report I realized that children having separate bedrooms probably has something to do with economics, the poorer the people the smaller their houses. With us here in America we are quite wealthy and can afford bigger homes for our entire families so hence the different sleeping arrangements. Privacy is expensive.> > Thanks again,> Carolyn> > Re: Re: pondering sleeping arrangements> > > I'm having a day off from study, so thought I would put my years of study to> good use. Not to start an argument again, but just to show we are [almost]> all [almost] normal, I spent a bit of time checking on sleeping arrangements> around the world. From the time when we huddled in caves and put granny on> the outside to watch over the fire and scream loudly if a cave bear came too> close, sleeping as a family seems to have been the preferred option in much> of Europe and western Asia, as well as being common in other areas. Most> houses had only one bed or sleeping space. And as the houses were usually> no more than 12x12 feet and included cooking, sleeping and working areas,> you just couldn't get away from family. The long house that is common in SE> Asia and also found in the Americas is similar, except that the houses are> joined up and kids have a choice of which family they spend the night with. > In Australia we slept around the fire or in a hut/shelter in family groups. > Another common pattern - which avoids the potential problems our discussion> brought up - is where girls are married off at the first sign of puberty and> boys have moved into "men's" houses before then. Sometimes the boys moved> into a family house with their wife after marriage, sometimes all the men> remained in the men's house for life and visited their wife/wive's houses as> the mood took them. [Just as a side issue - in China, mostly to avoid> conflict with MIL, a girl often moved into her future husband's home when> only a few years old. The problem was, by the time they hit puberty and it> was time for the marriage to be consummated, too many thought of each other> more as brother/sister and did not want to. There seems to be a natural> antipathy to sex with people you know too well. I will avoid making> comments on marriage at this point ] Men's houses are associated with a> number of cultures where some provision is made for providing sexual relief> for young men who are not yet married [ie ~ 12-16 yo]. I guess it makes it> easier than when Mum and Dad are 6 inches away. I will delete the details,> as they would undoubtedly offend/worry some. Our pattern of kids sleeping> separately from their parents also goes back a long way and seems to occur> in various places all over the world. I guess where parents can do so, most> take the opportunity. Where there is a good chance of your neighbours> coming and killing/kidnapping the kids during the night [much of the world> for most of history] keeping them as close as possible has its advantages. > Hammocks are the type of bed least associated with family-together sleeping.> I guess there are good reasons for that > > Just on the question of sex with kids - the most common reaction world wide> is either "people really do that?!" or "that is as weird as sex with> chickens!" [or appropriate local fauna]. Just thought I would add that so> no one gets the idea that because sleeping patterns are different in other> parts of the world that it indicates that kids aren't taken care of. I have> not yet come across a culture where children are considered to be acceptable> sexual partners for adults. The question of when a child becomes an adult> is a totally different issue and one I'm not going to touch!> > > Get a sneak peek of the all-new AOL.com. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 3, 2007 Report Share Posted September 3, 2007 I don't think anyone here has a problem with kids sleeping in the same room even as teens. It is under the same covers after puberty that is questioned. Also, it isn't the actual sleeping part that is the concern. It is the awake part! I think we have run this subject about into the ground but it has been rather interesting. Thanks all for the perspectives. Jodi > > I will say it again! Sleeping is about being asleep! Our kids just > feel better in the same room! Everyone on there own Mat. If my folks > had not had the family bed I really don't know that I would have done > so. Plus looking back now that dad is gone I can remeber never being > afraid of the bogey man in the closet because daddy was in the room! > When hubby and I where looking for a new house one thing we knew we > wanted was a room big enough for our mats! Even now my family is very > close! I am 32 my cousin is 55 and I still sit in her lap! She is the > last person on the planet that calls me her baby! > And the girls are 13, & 15 my brother and sister are 21 & 19 I raised > them after dad died and both are here since yesterday for laborday > weekend and sure enough they put there sleeping bags right near us! I > can still kiss both without a fuss! I think kids need to be safe and > when asleep Parents can sneak off and have sex! > Like the first post said we need to understand that while there are > some sickos out there I KNOW I AM NOT ONE OF THEM! > > > > > > Wow , that was really interesting, thank you for all the hard > work putting that together for us. Where you said that some parents > keep their kids close to protect them, that is what I did with my > autistic retarded son when he was little. We moved to a big house > with an upstairs and I figured he could sleep up there with his two > brothers, but when he jumped out the window one day I figured he > would have to sleep by me. > > > > So we put his bed in our bedroom and he has been there ever since, > so he is close and I can watch him. But now my husband and I no > longer sleep in there, as he died, and I sleep upstairs, but with all > the door open and attentive to every little noise. > > > > And as I read your report I realized that children having separate > bedrooms probably has something to do with economics, the poorer the > people the smaller their houses. With us here in America we are quite > wealthy and can afford bigger homes for our entire families so hence > the different sleeping arrangements. Privacy is expensive. > > > > Thanks again, > > Carolyn > > > > Re: Re: pondering sleeping arrangements > > > > > > I'm having a day off from study, so thought I would put my years of > study to > > good use. Not to start an argument again, but just to show we are > [almost] > > all [almost] normal, I spent a bit of time checking on sleeping > arrangements > > around the world. From the time when we huddled in caves and put > granny on > > the outside to watch over the fire and scream loudly if a cave bear > came too > > close, sleeping as a family seems to have been the preferred option > in much > > of Europe and western Asia, as well as being common in other areas. > Most > > houses had only one bed or sleeping space. And as the houses were > usually > > no more than 12x12 feet and included cooking, sleeping and working > areas, > > you just couldn't get away from family. The long house that is > common in SE > > Asia and also found in the Americas is similar, except that the > houses are > > joined up and kids have a choice of which family they spend the > night with. > > In Australia we slept around the fire or in a hut/shelter in family > groups. > > Another common pattern - which avoids the potential problems our > discussion > > brought up - is where girls are married off at the first sign of > puberty and > > boys have moved into " men's " houses before then. Sometimes the boys > moved > > into a family house with their wife after marriage, sometimes all > the men > > remained in the men's house for life and visited their wife/wive's > houses as > > the mood took them. [Just as a side issue - in China, mostly to > avoid > > conflict with MIL, a girl often moved into her future husband's > home when > > only a few years old. The problem was, by the time they hit puberty > and it > > was time for the marriage to be consummated, too many thought of > each other > > more as brother/sister and did not want to. There seems to be a > natural > > antipathy to sex with people you know too well. I will avoid making > > comments on marriage at this point ] Men's houses are associated > with a > > number of cultures where some provision is made for providing > sexual relief > > for young men who are not yet married [ie ~ 12-16 yo]. I guess it > makes it > > easier than when Mum and Dad are 6 inches away. I will delete the > details, > > as they would undoubtedly offend/worry some. Our pattern of kids > sleeping > > separately from their parents also goes back a long way and seems > to occur > > in various places all over the world. I guess where parents can do > so, most > > take the opportunity. Where there is a good chance of your > neighbours > > coming and killing/kidnapping the kids during the night [much of > the world > > for most of history] keeping them as close as possible has its > advantages. > > Hammocks are the type of bed least associated with family- together > sleeping. > > I guess there are good reasons for that > > > > Just on the question of sex with kids - the most common reaction > world wide > > is either " people really do that?! " or " that is as weird as sex with > > chickens! " [or appropriate local fauna]. Just thought I would add > that so > > no one gets the idea that because sleeping patterns are different > in other > > parts of the world that it indicates that kids aren't taken care > of. I have > > not yet come across a culture where children are considered to be > acceptable > > sexual partners for adults. The question of when a child becomes an > adult > > is a totally different issue and one I'm not going to touch! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ************************************** Get a sneak peek of the all- new AOL at > http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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