Re: pondering sleeping arrangements

[Guest guest]

I had that happen too! And this was almost 40 years ago and I was being really discreet! Great response Jen!

In a message dated 8/18/2007 12:08:29 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time, diegowench@... writes:

I actually had someone tell me at a restaurant when I was nursing that I should do that in the bathroom. I called the manager over there and said I would be happy to if he had everyone else eat in the bathroom - my daughter was eating too! Needless to say I was asked to leave, and did so.Jeff and Jodi <jjkgardeniersbcglobal (DOT) net> wrote:

Thank you for explaining. I honestly wasn't out to cause trouble. I was just being concerned about kids. I can understand your point of view. Jodi>> > No Jodi. No incest. You know, there is a family communal Love that is very > wonderful and special. Just because we may equate beds with sex doesn't > mean that's anything other than our culture, a repressed and perverted and > willful one far as I can see, and it doesn't appear to be working all that well.> > When a family is in communion ... I'm not sure the right words, but there is > this Love that just makes you want to do things for one another.> > Actually, one doesn't have to be a family to be in communion, as ideally we > can feel that way about everyone. All of this is about Love, not about sex, > although we do seem to have the two confused.> > Love,> Francine> > p.s. Recommending The Family Bed.> > p.p.s. People even associate breastfeeding with sex, and may act as if it > should be done in a secretive or hidden manner. Not kids though! I can > remember little kids coming up and practically putting their faces on my boob when > I'd be nursing. "Whatcha doin?" They could feel the Love. That's the only > real attraction.> > In a message dated 8/13/2007 12:01:29 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, > jjkgardenier@... writes:> > > > > It has been on my mind the subject of teenaged children sleeping with > their parents on a regular basis. Not to accuse anyone but I can't > help but wonder if incest is involved? It disturbs me. is four > and still sleeping with us. I'm hoping to wean him from this long > before he reaches puberty. I hope I haven't offended anyone. Please > enlighten me if there is a benifit to this sleeping arrangement after > puberty. I want to understand. Thank you. Jodi> > > > > > > > > > ************************************** Get a sneak peek of the all-new AOL at > http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour>

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[Guest guest]

Dear Vickie,

I wasn't talking down to Jodi. Having raised a lot of kids, I meant what I said, sincerely. Sorry if it was taken differently.

Francine

In a message dated 8/18/2007 12:08:27 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time, blackfoot124@... writes:

Not trying to be mean but everyone has their own opinions and we shouldnt talk down to them for it..I can completly understand what Jodi is saying .teenage boys are basically grown up ,yes there are long showers and yes all kids experiment but in regards to that there are also wet dreams now I dont want to wake up wet from pee when the little one pees the bed so I sure as hell dont want to wake up with wet from that. Okay family beds are nothing to do with sex fully understand that .

But when puberty issues arise being developed ,having wet dreams and the like I feel they should not be in bed with their moms & /or dads .To me there is a line that needs to be drawn in the family bed issues and the breastfeeding issues (there are some who breast feed and the child is 5 or 6 yrs old I know they say it is a bonding moment and makes them feel together ) my thought is cuddle on the couch etc... this has nothing to do with sex(although I have heard some mothers that got a bit of pleasure from it)

the one I remember was from a magazine ,do not remember her name, but she was breast feeding her like 14 month old and she got a tug of pleasure which scared her so she called a hotline to ask if this was normal and so forth and they reported her for sexual abuse and she was being sent to jail for it now this had just happend when I read this article (i think it was back in 1992 ) so i do not know if they did send her to jail or if she was realeased.

my thought is when do you stop ?? now my son michael sleep in my room on a love seat i sleep across the room on my bed (thank god for my big room) i can see that or the sleeping bag on the floor but in the same bed no he has laid in my bed i give him 5 mins (usually after a night terror )then he goes back to his own.

but I feel at this age (he will be 12 in oct ) he should be in his own room .He needs his room and I need mine.

but again this is jmho

Vickie

Re: Re: pondering sleeping arrangements

Gosh Jodi, haven't you heard of teenage boys and long showers? Some folks like to enjoy each other's near presence, maybe talk, and sleep.

Anyway, little kids are often experimenting anyway. It doesn't take 'hormones'.

The point is that life isn't all about sex, it's about the other 99.9 percent: Love.

That's how I see it.

FrancineIn a message dated 8/14/2007 6:36:28 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time, jjkgardenier@ sbcglobal. net writes:

No incest but I've heard pleanty about it. I can see co-sleeping up until puberty perhaps but when the hormones start raging I believe the child needs to be in his or her own bed. It just doesn't seem decent to me to have a teenager in bed with you over night. JMHO. Jodi > >> > It has been on my mind the subject of teenaged children sleeping with > > their parents on a regular basis. Not to accuse anyone but I can't > > help but wonder if incest is involved? It disturbs me. is > four > > and still sleeping with us. I'm hoping to wean him from this long > > before he reaches puberty. I hope I haven't offended anyone. Please > > enlighten me if there is a benifit to this sleeping arrangement after > > puberty. I want to understand. Thank you. Jodi> >>

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[Guest guest]

Dear Vickie,

I wasn't talking down to Jodi. Having raised a lot of kids, I meant what I said, sincerely. Sorry if it was taken differently.

Francine

In a message dated 8/18/2007 12:08:27 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time, blackfoot124@... writes:

Not trying to be mean but everyone has their own opinions and we shouldnt talk down to them for it..I can completly understand what Jodi is saying .teenage boys are basically grown up ,yes there are long showers and yes all kids experiment but in regards to that there are also wet dreams now I dont want to wake up wet from pee when the little one pees the bed so I sure as hell dont want to wake up with wet from that. Okay family beds are nothing to do with sex fully understand that .

But when puberty issues arise being developed ,having wet dreams and the like I feel they should not be in bed with their moms & /or dads .To me there is a line that needs to be drawn in the family bed issues and the breastfeeding issues (there are some who breast feed and the child is 5 or 6 yrs old I know they say it is a bonding moment and makes them feel together ) my thought is cuddle on the couch etc... this has nothing to do with sex(although I have heard some mothers that got a bit of pleasure from it)

the one I remember was from a magazine ,do not remember her name, but she was breast feeding her like 14 month old and she got a tug of pleasure which scared her so she called a hotline to ask if this was normal and so forth and they reported her for sexual abuse and she was being sent to jail for it now this had just happend when I read this article (i think it was back in 1992 ) so i do not know if they did send her to jail or if she was realeased.

my thought is when do you stop ?? now my son michael sleep in my room on a love seat i sleep across the room on my bed (thank god for my big room) i can see that or the sleeping bag on the floor but in the same bed no he has laid in my bed i give him 5 mins (usually after a night terror )then he goes back to his own.

but I feel at this age (he will be 12 in oct ) he should be in his own room .He needs his room and I need mine.

but again this is jmho

Vickie

Re: Re: pondering sleeping arrangements

Gosh Jodi, haven't you heard of teenage boys and long showers? Some folks like to enjoy each other's near presence, maybe talk, and sleep.

Anyway, little kids are often experimenting anyway. It doesn't take 'hormones'.

The point is that life isn't all about sex, it's about the other 99.9 percent: Love.

That's how I see it.

FrancineIn a message dated 8/14/2007 6:36:28 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time, jjkgardenier@ sbcglobal. net writes:

No incest but I've heard pleanty about it. I can see co-sleeping up until puberty perhaps but when the hormones start raging I believe the child needs to be in his or her own bed. It just doesn't seem decent to me to have a teenager in bed with you over night. JMHO. Jodi > >> > It has been on my mind the subject of teenaged children sleeping with > > their parents on a regular basis. Not to accuse anyone but I can't > > help but wonder if incest is involved? It disturbs me. is > four > > and still sleeping with us. I'm hoping to wean him from this long > > before he reaches puberty. I hope I haven't offended anyone. Please > > enlighten me if there is a benifit to this sleeping arrangement after > > puberty. I want to understand. Thank you. Jodi> >>

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[Guest guest]

Now, I can see other beds or mats on the floor in the same room even

after puberty but NOT under the same covers! I hope that in other

countries they draw a line at puberty. Even if it is to have someone

sleep on the floor.

I asked my husband what he thought about the subject. He asked if

they (women who sleep with their young adult sons) even WANT to be

married? I said that I believe most of them are single Moms. He

said " No wonder " .

My husband honestly isn't a jerk. He just gave his honest thought.

He still allows our four year old son to climb in with us along with

our son's dog. And Jeff doesn't even like that dog. He is really a

big softie. He has just made it clear that will not be sleeping

with us when he is 12. And I will honor him that! I believe a strong

marriage is the best gift we can give our son. And the thought of him

sleeping with us as a teen or pre-teen just doesn't set well with me

anyways.

I'm NOT saying that any woman lost her marriage due to co-sleeping!

I am also previously divorced and I'm not judging divorced people.

But then again I never imagined would be sleeping with us at

four. We have made numerous half-hearted attempts to keep him in his

own bed. It is mostly my fault. I love him sleeping with us.

Before we lost 's little sister I was determined to not spoil

but that kind of went out the window. Although we are working

very hard to teach him right from wrong and to be a polite and

responsible kid. I still spoil him more then I ought to.

All of this is JMHO again. Sorry I was going to let the subject drop

but I don't seem to know when to shut up. It just bugs me too much.

Jodi

[Guest guest]

-------Original Message-------

From: Jeff and Jodi

Date: 20/08/2007 9:11:14 PM

Now, I can see other beds or mats on the floor in the same room even

After puberty but NOT under the same covers! I hope that in other

Countries they draw a line at puberty. Even if it is to have someone

Sleep on the floor.

*******************************

The short answer is no. Even in the New Testament there is a story where a

man doesn't want to get up in the night because his whole family is in bed

with him. Most cultures are not as obsessed with, or paranoid about, sex as

America and some other parts of the West are, and the thought that sharing a

bed necessarily or even probably means sex would be considered strange -

especially in a family context. In some parts of the world, the idea of not

sharing a bed with someone would be strange. In some cultures, the biggest

social sin is to allow a guest or family member to be alone - even when

sleeping. It may not be what you are comfortable with, but not everyone

shares your values. That's just life, whether we like it or not. On a

group like this where people from almost anywhere can join, there are

inevitably going to be times when you will not like or approve of someone

else's way of life. In the global scheme of things, Western culture is a a

minority. Every year we become a smaller minority, so we just have to get

used to people doing things differently. As long as we can live the way we

believe to be right, we should allow others the same privilege.

[Guest guest]

I wasn't saying that I had

a problem with it, just that sadly some people don't see it for what it

is, innocent! The Western world is extremely perverse. I think

whatever works for each individual family.

Bek

Riley wrote:

-------Original Message-------

From: Bek & Craig

Date: 18/08/2007 2:10:21 PM

But sadly in today's society that's not how others see it. I believe

that it

s opening a door for untrue accusations that could people into a lot of

trouble which is sad but that is the way that society has turned. Up

until

puberty I think it's fine but after that no. I have NEVER had either of

my

boys sleep in our bed since very very rarely between the ages of 1-2 and

they are happy well adjusted children. JMO.

Bek

*****************************

We can't ignore the world around us. For most of history, in most

places,

the whole family has slept in one bed or on rugs/mats all in the same

room.

Europe has had separate beds for everyone for only a few hundred years -

except for the rich. Until last century it was common for all boys or

girls in a family to share one bed. Now every kid expects to have

his/her

own room. Times change.

[Guest guest]

Very well put . Thank you.

Francine

In a message dated 8/25/2007 2:51:47 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time, klriley@... writes:

-------Original Message------- From: Jeff and Jodi Date: 20/08/2007 9:11:14 PM Now, I can see other beds or mats on the floor in the same room even After puberty but NOT under the same covers! I hope that in other Countries they draw a line at puberty. Even if it is to have someone Sleep on the floor. *******************************The short answer is no. Even in the New Testament there is a story where aman doesn't want to get up in the night because his whole family is in bedwith him. Most cultures are not as obsessed with, or paranoid about, sex asAmerica and some other parts of the West are, and the thought that sharing abed necessarily or even probably means sex would be considered strange -especially in a family context. In some parts of the world, the idea of notsharing a bed with someone would be strange. In some cultures, the biggestsocial sin is to allow a guest or family member to be alone - even whensleeping. It may not be what you are comfortable with, but not everyoneshares your values. That's just life, whether we like it or not. On agroup like this where people from almost anywhere can join, there areinevitably going to be times when you will not like or approve of someoneelse's way of life. In the global scheme of things, Western culture is a aminority. Every year we become a smaller minority, so we just have to getused to people doing things differently. As long as we can live the way webelieve to be right, we should allow others the same privilege.

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[Guest guest]

How eloquently put . I agree.

Jill

-----Original Message-----From: Autism and Aspergers Treatment [mailto:Autism and Aspergers Treatment ]On Behalf Of sunrose101@...Sent: Saturday, August 25, 2007 10:50 AMAutism and Aspergers Treatment Subject: Re: Re: pondering sleeping arrangements

Very well put . Thank you.

Francine

In a message dated 8/25/2007 2:51:47 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time, klrileyalphalink.au writes:

-------Original Message------- From: Jeff and Jodi Date: 20/08/2007 9:11:14 PM Now, I can see other beds or mats on the floor in the same room even After puberty but NOT under the same covers! I hope that in other Countries they draw a line at puberty. Even if it is to have someone Sleep on the floor. *******************************The short answer is no. Even in the New Testament there is a story where aman doesn't want to get up in the night because his whole family is in bedwith him. Most cultures are not as obsessed with, or paranoid about, sex asAmerica and some other parts of the West are, and the thought that sharing abed necessarily or even probably means sex would be considered strange -especially in a family context. In some parts of the world, the idea of notsharing a bed with someone would be strange. In some cultures, the biggestsocial sin is to allow a guest or family member to be alone - even whensleeping. It may not be what you are comfortable with, but not everyoneshares your values. That's just life, whether we like it or not. On agroup like this where people from almost anywhere can join, there areinevitably going to be times when you will not like or approve of someoneelse's way of life. In the global scheme of things, Western culture is a aminority. Every year we become a smaller minority, so we just have to getused to people doing things differently. As long as we can live the way webelieve to be right, we should allow others the same privilege.

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[Guest guest]

Jodi, this feels like you're saying that someone here might molest their child??? Autism parents???

In a message dated 8/26/2007 12:34:42 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time, jjkgardenier@... writes:

It would be easiest for me to say that I don't care what goes on behind other people's closed doors but I care too much about the welfare of children.I do not regret voicing my concern about this issue. If this thread prevents even one child from having to leave his or her parent's bed in humilation to take a hot shower it is worth it to me.I disagree with your viewpoint but respectfully thank you for your input. Jodi>> > > -------Original Message------- > > From: Jeff and Jodi > Date: 20/08/2007 9:11:14 PM > > Now, I can see other beds or mats on the floor in the same room even > After puberty but NOT under the same covers! I hope that in other > Countries they draw a line at puberty. Even if it is to have someone > Sleep on the floor. > > *******************************> The short answer is no. Even in the New Testament there is a story where a> man doesn't want to get up in the night because his whole family is in bed> with him. Most cultures are not as obsessed with, or paranoid about, sex as> America and some other parts of the West are, and the thought that sharing a> bed necessarily or even probably means sex would be considered strange -> especially in a family context. In some parts of the world, the idea of not> sharing a bed with someone would be strange. In some cultures, the biggest> social sin is to allow a guest or family member to be alone - even when> sleeping. It may not be what you are comfortable with, but not everyone> shares your values. That's just life, whether we like it or not. On a> group like this where people from almost anywhere can join, there are> inevitably going to be times when you will not like or approve of someone> else's way of life. In the global scheme of things, Western culture is a a> minority. Every year we become a smaller minority, so we just have to get> used to people doing things differently. As long as we can live the way we> believe to be right, we should allow others the same privilege.> > >

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[Guest guest]

It would be easiest for me to say that I don't care what goes on

behind other people's closed doors but I care too much about the

welfare of children.

I do not regret voicing my concern about this issue. If this thread

prevents even one child from having to leave his or her parent's bed

in humilation to take a hot shower it is worth it to me.

I disagree with your viewpoint but respectfully thank you for your

input.

Jodi

>

>

>

> -------Original Message-------

>

> From: Jeff and Jodi

> Date: 20/08/2007 9:11:14 PM

>

> Now, I can see other beds or mats on the floor in the same room

even

> After puberty but NOT under the same covers! I hope that in other

> Countries they draw a line at puberty. Even if it is to have

someone

> Sleep on the floor.

>

> *******************************

> The short answer is no. Even in the New Testament there is a

story where a

> man doesn't want to get up in the night because his whole family

is in bed

> with him. Most cultures are not as obsessed with, or paranoid

about, sex as

> America and some other parts of the West are, and the thought that

sharing a

> bed necessarily or even probably means sex would be considered

strange -

> especially in a family context. In some parts of the world, the

idea of not

> sharing a bed with someone would be strange. In some cultures,

the biggest

> social sin is to allow a guest or family member to be alone - even

when

> sleeping. It may not be what you are comfortable with, but not

everyone

> shares your values. That's just life, whether we like it or not.

On a

> group like this where people from almost anywhere can join, there

are

> inevitably going to be times when you will not like or approve of

someone

> else's way of life. In the global scheme of things, Western

culture is a a

> minority. Every year we become a smaller minority, so we just

have to get

> used to people doing things differently. As long as we can live

the way we

> believe to be right, we should allow others the same privilege.

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

I have compassion for your situation. I am close minded in many

matters and not ashamed of it! I will stand up for what I feel is

right until someone can prove me wrong. Jodi

>

> Jodi,

>

> In order to be understanding one must have an open mind. What

works for you

> or me is not necessarily what will work for all. I do sleep

with my 12

> year old son. It is comforting to him, as cognitively he is about

4.

> Personally, it matters not who agrees or disagrees with me as I am

the one

> who walks in my shoes and bears the responsibility of my actions.

>

> There is a difference between understanding (open minded) and

convincing

> (closed minded).

>

> I respect you for knowing when enough is enough.

>

> Jill

> Re: pondering sleeping arrangements

>

>

> I need to let this subject go. I started this thread hoping for

> understanding. I've come to the point where I'm being offensive.

> I ask for forgiveness to anyone I have offended. There are just

some

> things in this life I will not understand and no book is going to

> convince me that an adult sleeping overnight with a teen is

okay. I

> would like to make it clear that I have NOT accused anyone of

incest.

> Jodi

>

[Guest guest]

Not implying that what-so-ever. I simply feel that it is not a good

idea for adults to sleep with puberty aged children. It can be

taken as advice or a precaution or if you choose to be offended that

is up to you. JMHO. Jodi

> >

> >

> >

> > -------Original Message----- --

> >

> > From: Jeff and Jodi

> > Date: 20/08/2007 9:11:14 PM

> >

> > Now, I can see other beds or mats on the floor in the same room

> even

> > After puberty but NOT under the same covers! I hope that in

other

> > Countries they draw a line at puberty. Even if it is to have

> someone

> > Sleep on the floor.

> >

> > ************ **** ****

> > The short answer is no. Even in the New Testament there is a

> story where a

> > man doesn't want to get up in the night because his whole

family

> is in bed

> > with him. Most cultures are not as obsessed with, or paranoid

> about, sex as

> > America and some other parts of the West are, and the thought

that

> sharing a

> > bed necessarily or even probably means sex would be considered

> strange -

> > especially in a family context. In some parts of the world, the

> idea of not

> > sharing a bed with someone would be strange. In some cultures,

> the biggest

> > social sin is to allow a guest or family member to be alone -

even

> when

> > sleeping. It may not be what you are comfortable with, but not

> everyone

> > shares your values. That's just life, whether we like it or

not.

> On a

> > group like this where people from almost anywhere can join,

there

> are

> > inevitably going to be times when you will not like or approve

of

> someone

> > else's way of life. In the global scheme of things, Western

> culture is a a

> > minority. Every year we become a smaller minority, so we just

> have to get

> > used to people doing things differently. As long as we can live

> the way we

> > believe to be right, we should allow others the same privilege.

> >

> >

> >

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

> ************************************** Get a sneak peek of the all-

new AOL at

> http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour

>

[Guest guest]

No, I don't just think that adults sleeping with puberty aged

children is a bad idea. I feel it is wrong.

Am I being judgemental? Perhaps. But I admit to doing wrong stuff

all the time. I will not try to convince others that my wrong-

doings are acceptable.

Am I accusing anyone of wrong-doings? I don't know what goes on

behind closed doors and only God knows what is in a person's heart.

If someone can convice me that adults sleeping with puberty aged

children I am capable of changing my view. After all I used to be

and athiest, pro-choice, Democrat but my mind has been changed!

Jodi

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > -------Original Message----- --

> > >

> > > From: Jeff and Jodi

> > > Date: 20/08/2007 9:11:14 PM

> > >

> > > Now, I can see other beds or mats on the floor in the same

room

> > even

> > > After puberty but NOT under the same covers! I hope that in

> other

> > > Countries they draw a line at puberty. Even if it is to have

> > someone

> > > Sleep on the floor.

> > >

> > > ************ **** ****

> > > The short answer is no. Even in the New Testament there is a

> > story where a

> > > man doesn't want to get up in the night because his whole

> family

> > is in bed

> > > with him. Most cultures are not as obsessed with, or paranoid

> > about, sex as

> > > America and some other parts of the West are, and the thought

> that

> > sharing a

> > > bed necessarily or even probably means sex would be

considered

> > strange -

> > > especially in a family context. In some parts of the world,

the

> > idea of not

> > > sharing a bed with someone would be strange. In some

cultures,

> > the biggest

> > > social sin is to allow a guest or family member to be alone -

> even

> > when

> > > sleeping. It may not be what you are comfortable with, but

not

> > everyone

> > > shares your values. That's just life, whether we like it or

> not.

> > On a

> > > group like this where people from almost anywhere can join,

> there

> > are

> > > inevitably going to be times when you will not like or

approve

> of

> > someone

> > > else's way of life. In the global scheme of things, Western

> > culture is a a

> > > minority. Every year we become a smaller minority, so we just

> > have to get

> > > used to people doing things differently. As long as we can

live

> > the way we

> > > believe to be right, we should allow others the same

privilege.

> > >

> > >

> > >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> > ************************************** Get a sneak peek of the

all-

> new AOL at

> > http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour

> >

>

[Guest guest]

I know I was going to let this subject drop but having it implied

that I'm closed-minded put me on the defensive. Or I chose to be

offended? =)

Anyways, my statement below wasn't to slander anyone. I just wanted

to show that I am open minded enough to be convinced otherwise on

issues. I'm willing to listen and learn and sometimes I even change

my mind.

Now I hope that I can finally get some sleep! I go to bed and lay

there thinking on things and get up again...

Peace be with you all and good night.

Jodi

>

> If someone can convice me that adults sleeping with puberty aged

> children I am capable of changing my view. After all I used to be

> and athiest, pro-choice, Democrat but my mind has been changed!

>

> Jodi

>

[Guest guest]

I haven’t followed this post all the

way through. However, I do know the subject is “teens sleeping with

Adults”. This is all I know and my opinion is; it is what it is. Everyone

has their own opinions. I just wanted to add mine. I will be objectionable and

say if all else fails about whether it’s right or wrong maybe someone

(and I don’t look at the names here) someone hasn’t thought about

this one:

When a child sleeps with a parent they

begin to rely on the parent being there for safety and security reasons. It is

difficult to have a child with Autism but it’s even more difficult to get

the kids where they need to be in the world. It’s hard for NT kids to

leave their parents bed and when a parent gets used to that child being there

for whatever reason they are depriving their child of getting their child to

become secure in themselves. So in reality if you think you are soothing your

child as a parent may in this situation, you are actually depriving the chance

in becoming independent. We all know our challenges with our kids and these

challenges with Autistic kids only are bigger compared to NT (Neuro typical) kids.

For example: When a teenager enters middle school their hormones change, peer

pressure is much more manifested. A kid with Autism entering middle school has

ten times the challenges to face. In all regards, it best suits the child

(teenager) to learn self taught skills that are much more challenging with Autistic

kids. Society will look at this totally different as well and if we want our

Autistic kids to be normal as possible, to live within the world around us, to

get along with others. It is in reason to say our Autistic children will need

to learn differently. This is not the best learning curb for the child.

ly, I do agree it’s wrong

although; thought it was right. (No pun intended) The world or America looked

upon this as abnormal and sexual content was added by some people. It’s suspicious

in looking in as “normal” behaviors. Judge mental? If someone didn’t

post this expecting it to be subjected to more a debatable than the post should

have never entered.

From: Autism and Aspergers Treatment [mailto:Autism and Aspergers Treatment ] On Behalf Of sunrose101@...

Sent: Sunday, August 26, 2007 9:40

PM

Autism and Aspergers Treatment

Subject: Re:

Re: pondering sleeping arrangements

:*) Good night Jodi.

In a message dated 8/26/2007 9:51:39

P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, jjkgardeniersbcglobal (DOT) net writes:

You are a dear Francine.

I once was very shy and would never stick

up for myself and now I sometimes go overboard. Yes, lets just

agree to disagree. =) Thanks and bless you. Jodi

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > -------Original Message----- --

> > > >

> > > > From: Jeff and Jodi

> > > > Date: 20/08/2007 9:11:14 PM

> > > >

> > > > Now, I can see other beds or mats on the floor in the same

> room

> > > even

> > > > After puberty but NOT under the same covers! I hope that in

> > other

> > > > Countries they draw a line at puberty. Even if it is to

have

> > > someone

> > > > Sleep on the floor.

> > > >

> > > > ************ **** ****

> > > > The short answer is no. Even in the New Testament there is

a

> > > story where a

> > > > man doesn't want to get up in the night because his whole

> > family

> > > is in bed

> > > > with him. Most cultures are not as obsessed with, or

paranoid

> > > about, sex as

> > > > America

and some other parts of the West are, and the

thought

> > that

> > > sharing a

> > > > bed necessarily or even probably means sex would be

> considered

> > > strange -

> > > > especially in a family context. In some parts of the world,

> the

> > > idea of not

> > > > sharing a bed with someone would be strange. In some

> cultures,

> > > the biggest

> > > > social sin is to allow a guest or family member to be

alone -

> > even

> > > when

> > > > sleeping. It may not be what you are comfortable with, but

> not

> > > everyone

> > > > shares your values. That's just life, whether we like it or

> > not.

> > > On a

> > > > group like this where people from almost anywhere can join,

> > there

> > > are

> > > > inevitably going to be times when you will not like or

> approve

> > of

> > > someone

> > > > else's way of life. In the global scheme of things, Western

> > > culture is a a

> > > > minority. Every year we become a smaller minority, so we

just

> > > have to get

> > > > used to people doing things differently. As long as we can

> live

> > > the way we

> > > > believe to be right, we should allow others the same

> privilege.

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > ************ ******** ********

************<WBR>*********<WBR>*****

> all-

> > new AOL at

> > > _http://discover.http://discovehttp://disco_

> (http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour)

> > >

> >

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

> ************************************** Get a sneak peek of

the all-

new AOL at

> http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour

>

Get a sneak peek of the all-new AOL.com.

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Checked by AVG Free Edition.

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[Guest guest]

Well, I guess I'll respond to your email Deb, since it's to my response about agreeing to disagree.

What shows up for me here is just how much we are products of our cultural beliefs -- either in agreement or in disregard of them.

My guess is that psychologically-oriented, sex-obsessed, uptight America has much more child sexual abuse -- than other, more relaxed cultures.

I can remember a famous Jewish comedian, in his autobiography, writing about how all eight kids in his family slept together. Now we know that brother-sister abuse happens; so is the incidence of it higher in poor families with tight living arrangement? Probably not.

There actually is a genuine ... warmth of spirit -- for lack of better words -- in closeness, that is spontaneously natural and normal to us, that has nothing to do with sex and everything to do with an acknowledgment that we all want that closeness.

My high school friends and I slept together on sleepovers. If anyone had suggested this was improper (and our parents obviously didn't think so) we would have been horrified. Were our teenaged minds obsessed with sex? Absolutely! We talked about it constantly, one way or another. However, not with each other!

This is how it is with families that sleep together. Sleeping together is a shared family/friend communion (remember slumber parties?). Sex is something else again, and in my day -- at least! -- was more associated with a car or a beach than a bed! (Smiling fondly at some memories.)

One Christmas eve, when my daughter was in high school, a bunch of other kids whose families didn't celebrate Christmas (Jewish, atheist, Hindu) seemed to spontaneously decide that they wanted to spend Christmas Eve with us [since God is such a Center to our lives]. So about ten of us slept in the living room with the tree! It was a really lovely experience, boys and girls. They were here for God, not sex.

It has been said that we are to look into our brothers' and sisters' eyes and remember God. I think, to some extent, the experience of communal sleeping fosters that Oneness.

Love,

Francine

In a message dated 8/27/2007 3:04:33 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time, debhitchcock@... writes:

I haven’t followed this post all the way through. However, I do know the subject is “teens sleeping with Adultsâ€. This is all I know and my opinion is; it is what it is. Everyone has their own opinions. I just wanted to add mine. I will be objectionable and say if all else fails about whether it’s right or wrong maybe someone (and I don’t look at the names here) someone hasn’t thought about this one:

When a child sleeps with a parent they begin to rely on the parent being there for safety and security reasons. It is difficult to have a child with Autism but it’s even more difficult to get the kids where they need to be in the world. It’s hard for NT kids to leave their parents bed and when a parent gets used to that child being there for whatever reason they are depriving their child of getting their child to become secure in themselves. So in reality if you think you are soothing your child as a parent may in this situation, you are actually depriving the chance in becoming independent. We all know our challenges with our kids and these challenges with Autistic kids only are bigger compared to NT (Neuro typical) kids. For example: When a teenager enters middle school their hormones change, peer pressure is much more manifested. A kid with Autism entering middle school has ten times the challenges to face. In all regards, it best suits the child (teenager) to learn self taught skills that are much more challenging with Autistic kids. Society will look at this totally different as well and if we want our Autistic kids to be normal as possible, to live within the world around us, to get along with others. It is in reason to say our Autistic children will need to learn differently. This is not the best learning curb for the child.

ly, I do agree it’s wrong although; thought it was right. (No pun intended) The world or America looked upon this as abnormal and sexual content was added by some people. It’s suspicious in looking in as “normal†behaviors. Judge mental? If someone didn’t post this expecting it to be subjected to more a debatable than the post should have never entered.

From: Autism and Aspergers Treatment [mailto:Autism and Aspergers Treatment ] On Behalf Of sunrose101aolSent: Sunday, August 26, 2007 9:40 PMAutism and Aspergers Treatment Subject: Re: Re: pondering sleeping arrangements

:*) Good night Jodi.

In a message dated 8/26/2007 9:51:39 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, jjkgardeniersbcglobal (DOT) net writes:

You are a dear Francine. I once was very shy and would never stick up for myself and now I sometimes go overboard. Yes, lets just agree to disagree. =) Thanks and bless you. Jodi> > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > -------Original Message----- --> > > > > > > > From: Jeff and Jodi > > > > Date: 20/08/2007 9:11:14 PM > > > > > > > > Now, I can see other beds or mats on the floor in the same > room > > > even > > > > After puberty but NOT under the same covers! I hope that in > > other > > > > Countries they draw a line at puberty. Even if it is to have > > > someone > > > > Sleep on the floor. > > > > > > > > ************ **** **** > > > > The short answer is no. Even in the New Testament there is a > > > story where a> > > > man doesn't want to get up in the night because his whole > > family > > > is in bed> > > > with him. Most cultures are not as obsessed with, or paranoid > > > about, sex as> > > > America and some other parts of the West are, and the thought > > that > > > sharing a> > > > bed necessarily or even probably means sex would be > considered > > > strange -> > > > especially in a family context. In some parts of the world, > the > > > idea of not> > > > sharing a bed with someone would be strange. In some > cultures, > > > the biggest> > > > social sin is to allow a guest or family member to be alone - > > even > > > when> > > > sleeping. It may not be what you are comfortable with, but > not > > > everyone> > > > shares your values. That's just life, whether we like it or > > not. > > > On a> > > > group like this where people from almost anywhere can join, > > there > > > are> > > > inevitably going to be times when you will not like or > approve > > of > > > someone> > > > else's way of life. In the global scheme of things, Western > > > culture is a a> > > > minority. Every year we become a smaller minority, so we just > > > have to get> > > > used to people doing things differently. As long as we can > live > > > the way we> > > > believe to be right, we should allow others the same > privilege.> > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ************ ******** ******** ************<WBR>*********<WBR>*****> all-> > new AOL at > > > _http://discover.http://discovehttp://disco_ > (http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour) > > >> >> > > > > > > > > > ************************************** Get a sneak peek of the all-new AOL at > http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour>

Get a sneak peek of the all-new AOL.com.

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Get a sneak peek of the all-new AOL.com.

[Guest guest]

My comments are under yours…see

below.

From: Autism and Aspergers Treatment [mailto:Autism and Aspergers Treatment ] On Behalf Of sunrose101@...

Sent: Monday, August 27, 2007 8:48

AM

Autism and Aspergers Treatment

Subject: Re:

Re: pondering sleeping arrangements

Well, I guess I'll respond to your email

Deb, since it's to my response about agreeing to disagree.

What shows up for me here is just how

much we are products of our cultural beliefs -- either in agreement or in

disregard of them.

<<<Sleeping with your children in

other believes, cultural settings was not the topic. However, since cultural

beliefs has been brought into this subject agreed or disagreed, disregarded or

not; “products of our cultural beliefs” is in the view you have

currently. It maybe true most people view it this way from the cultural environment.

That is their right, what they believe, such as you. Besides, I am not convinced

it’s entirely cultural subjected. I have not seen statistics that gives

me figures of how much is “cultural” and how much is not. I would

need more proof for you to convince me on what is morally right and what is

cultural. I think that is a huge difference in the original subject than what

was posted. >>>>>

My guess is that psychologically-oriented,

sex-obsessed, uptight America

has much more child sexual abuse -- than other, more relaxed cultures.

<<<<< How do you know this,

give me the statistics, in figures and from a reasonable source. “Uptight

America”

as you put it hasn’t gotten there for any reason. Children have been de moralized

due to certain acts that are morally wrong in every cultural insight. Liberals

mainly think this way as you do does it mean they are from another cultural? Relaxed

cultural maybe contributing to why America’s children has more

child sexual abuse have you ever thought that? Again, there are no statistics

that give your statements the truth. America is what it is and there are

a lot of cultural oriented people here. This doesn’t mean that it is

uptight America when other cultures

also sexually abuse children too, in America I might add. It’s my

opinion when someone moves here from another country they have a right to

practice their own cultural beliefs as long as it doesn’t affect children

in a harmful way. Uptight or not, America’s opinion what is based

on what is morally wrong. I have never mentioned sexuality. Since you mentioned

it, I can’t see where Americans are obsessed with it. >>>>>

I can remember a famous Jewish comedian,

in his autobiography, writing about how all eight kids in his family slept

together. Now we know that brother-sister abuse happens; so is the

incidence of it higher in poor families with tight living arrangement? Probably

not.

<<< Who really cares what

Jewish families do-their cultural their families. I just made the comment about

how a child doesn’t develop self skills by sleeping with an adult.

>>>>

There actually is a genuine ... warmth

of spirit -- for lack of better words -- in closeness, that is spontaneously

natural and normal to us, that has nothing to do with sex and everything to do

with an acknowledgment that we all want that closeness.

My high school friends and I slept

together on sleepovers. If anyone had suggested this was improper (and

our parents obviously didn't think so) we would have been horrified. Were

our teenaged minds obsessed with sex? Absolutely! We talked about

it constantly, one way or another. However, not with each other!

This is how it is with families that

sleep together. Sleeping together is a shared family/friend communion

(remember slumber parties?). Sex is something else again, and in my day

-- at least! -- was more associated with a car or a beach than a bed! (Smiling

fondly at some memories.)

One Christmas eve, when my daughter was

in high school, a bunch of other kids whose families didn't celebrate Christmas

(Jewish, atheist, Hindu) seemed to spontaneously decide that they wanted to

spend Christmas Eve with us [since God is such a Center to our lives]. So

about ten of us slept in the living room with the tree! It was a really

lovely experience, boys and girls. They were here for God, not sex.

It has been said that we are to look

into our brothers' and sisters' eyes and remember God. I think, to some

extent, the experience of communal sleeping fosters that Oneness.

Love,

Francine

In a message dated 8/27/2007 3:04:33

A.M. Eastern Daylight Time, debhitchcockmchsi writes:

I haven’t followed this post all the way through. However, I

do know the subject is “teens sleeping with Adults”. This is all I

know and my opinion is; it is what it is. Everyone has their own opinions. I

just wanted to add mine. I will be objectionable and say if all else fails

about whether it’s right or wrong maybe someone (and I don’t look

at the names here) someone hasn’t thought about this one:

When a child sleeps with a parent they begin to rely on the

parent being there for safety and security reasons. It is difficult to have a

child with Autism but it’s even more difficult to get the kids where they

need to be in the world. It’s hard for NT kids to leave their parents bed

and when a parent gets used to that child being there for whatever reason they

are depriving their child of getting their child to become secure in

themselves. So in reality if you think you are soothing your child as a parent

may in this situation, you are actually depriving the chance in becoming

independent. We all know our challenges with our kids and these challenges with

Autistic kids only are bigger compared to NT (Neuro typical) kids. For example:

When a teenager enters middle school their hormones change, peer pressure is

much more manifested. A kid with Autism entering middle school has ten times

the challenges to face. In all regards, it best suits the child (teenager) to

learn self taught skills that are much more challenging with Autistic kids.

Society will look at this totally different as well and if we want our Autistic

kids to be normal as possible, to live within the world around us, to get along

with others. It is in reason to say our Autistic children will need to learn

differently. This is not the best learning curb for the child.

ly, I do agree it’s wrong although;

thought it was right. (No pun intended) The world or America

looked upon this as abnormal and sexual content was added by some people.

It’s suspicious in looking in as “normal” behaviors. Judge

mental? If someone didn’t post this expecting it to be subjected to more

a debatable than the post should have never entered.

From: Autism and Aspergers Treatment

[mailto:Autism and Aspergers Treatment ]

On Behalf Of sunrose101aol

Sent: Sunday, August 26, 2007 9:40

PM

Autism and Aspergers Treatment

Subject: Re:

Re: pondering sleeping arrangements

:*) Good night Jodi.

In a message dated 8/26/2007 9:51:39 P.M. Eastern Daylight

Time, jjkgardeniersbcglobal (DOT) net writes:

You are a dear Francine. I once was very shy and

would never stick

up for myself and now I sometimes go overboard. Yes, lets just

agree to disagree. =) Thanks and bless you. Jodi

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > -------Original Message----- --

> > > >

> > > > From: Jeff and Jodi

> > > > Date: 20/08/2007 9:11:14 PM

> > > >

> > > > Now, I can see other beds or mats on the floor in the same

> room

> > > even

> > > > After puberty but NOT under the same covers! I hope that in

> > other

> > > > Countries they draw a line at puberty. Even if it is to

have

> > > someone

> > > > Sleep on the floor.

> > > >

> > > > ************ **** ****

> > > > The short answer is no. Even in the New Testament there is

a

> > > story where a

> > > > man doesn't want to get up in the night because his whole

> > family

> > > is in bed

> > > > with him. Most cultures are not as obsessed with, or

paranoid

> > > about, sex as

> > > > America

and some other parts of the West are, and the

thought

> > that

> > > sharing a

> > > > bed necessarily or even probably means sex would be

> considered

> > > strange -

> > > > especially in a family context. In some parts of the world,

> the

> > > idea of not

> > > > sharing a bed with someone would be strange. In some

> cultures,

> > > the biggest

> > > > social sin is to allow a guest or family member to be

alone -

> > even

> > > when

> > > > sleeping. It may not be what you are comfortable with, but

> not

> > > everyone

> > > > shares your values. That's just life, whether we like it or

> > not.

> > > On a

> > > > group like this where people from almost anywhere can join,

> > there

> > > are

> > > > inevitably going to be times when you will not like or

> approve

> > of

> > > someone

> > > > else's way of life. In the global scheme of things, Western

> > > culture is a a

> > > > minority. Every year we become a smaller minority, so we

just

> > > have to get

> > > > used to people doing things differently. As long as we can

> live

> > > the way we

> > > > believe to be right, we should allow others the same

> privilege.

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > ************ ******** ********

************<WBR>*********<WBR>*****

> all-

> > new AOL at

> > > _http://discover.http://discovehttp://disco_

> (http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour)

> > >

> >

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

> ************************************** Get a sneak peek of

the all-

new AOL at

> http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour

>

Get a sneak peek of the all-new AOL.com.

No virus found in this incoming message.

Checked by AVG Free Edition.

Version: 7.5.484 / Virus Database: 269.12.8/973 - Release Date: 8/25/2007 5:00

PM

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Get a sneak peek of the all-new AOL.com.

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Checked by AVG Free Edition.

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[Guest guest]

Hello all,

I was surprised to see you all still pondering sleeping arrangements, have been reading all your comments this way and that, and a thought comes to me. Do you Francine, and any others of you think it is possible for a parent to come under temptation if the right situation is presented where this could possibly happen.

This thought has come to me lately, not from this discussion alone, but from all the reports that are making it seem to me like there is an epidemic landslide of people, they look like just ordinary people to me, men mostly, who ALL OF A SUDDEN start molesting their own children! Or other people's children.

I watched this thing on TV not too long ago, it was an Internet sting actually, where detectives set up a track in order to catch men who wanted to go and have sex with children. They would write back and forth to them, set up the place and time, the men would show up and get busted.

What shocked me is they were normal men, husbands, fathers, doctors, lawyers, teachers, ministers, etc.

All I am saying is there is something going on these days in our world, and maybe it pays for us all to be more vigilant than ever before, not only for our children's sakes, but for our own sakes. Because I don't think any of these men ever thought they could be tempted this way, but yet they were, and their lives were ruined.

It is pitiful, but it is happening in larger numbers all the time.

Carolyn

RE: Re: pondering sleeping arrangements

My comments are under yours…see below.

From: Autism and Aspergers Treatment [mailto:Autism and Aspergers Treatment ] On Behalf Of sunrose101aolSent: Monday, August 27, 2007 8:48 AMAutism and Aspergers Treatment Subject: Re: Re: pondering sleeping arrangements

Well, I guess I'll respond to your email Deb, since it's to my response about agreeing to disagree.

What shows up for me here is just how much we are products of our cultural beliefs -- either in agreement or in disregard of them.

<<<Sleeping with your children in other believes, cultural settings was not the topic. However, since cultural beliefs has been brought into this subject agreed or disagreed, disregarded or not; “products of our cultural beliefs” is in the view you have currently. It maybe true most people view it this way from the cultural environment. That is their right, what they believe, such as you. Besides, I am not convinced it’s entirely cultural subjected. I have not seen statistics that gives me figures of how much is “cultural” and how much is not. I would need more proof for you to convince me on what is morally right and what is cultural. I think that is a huge difference in the original subject than what was posted. >>>>>

My guess is that psychologically-oriented, sex-obsessed, uptight America has much more child sexual abuse -- than other, more relaxed cultures.

<<<<< How do you know this, give me the statistics, in figures and from a reasonable source. “Uptight America” as you put it hasn’t gotten there for any reason. Children have been de moralized due to certain acts that are morally wrong in every cultural insight. Liberals mainly think this way as you do does it mean they are from another cultural? Relaxed cultural maybe contributing to why America’s children has more child sexual abuse have you ever thought that? Again, there are no statistics that give your statements the truth. America is what it is and there are a lot of cultural oriented people here. This doesn’t mean that it is uptight America when other cultures also sexually abuse children too, in America I might add. It’s my opinion when someone moves here from another country they have a right to practice their own cultural beliefs as long as it doesn’t affect children in a harmful way. Uptight or not, America’s opinion what is based on what is morally wrong. I have never mentioned sexuality. Since you mentioned it, I can’t see where Americans are obsessed with it. >>>>>

I can remember a famous Jewish comedian, in his autobiography, writing about how all eight kids in his family slept together. Now we know that brother-sister abuse happens; so is the incidence of it higher in poor families with tight living arrangement? Probably not.

<<< Who really cares what Jewish families do-their cultural their families. I just made the comment about how a child doesn’t develop self skills by sleeping with an adult. >>>>

There actually is a genuine ... warmth of spirit -- for lack of better words -- in closeness, that is spontaneously natural and normal to us, that has nothing to do with sex and everything to do with an acknowledgment that we all want that closeness.

My high school friends and I slept together on sleepovers. If anyone had suggested this was improper (and our parents obviously didn't think so) we would have been horrified. Were our teenaged minds obsessed with sex? Absolutely! We talked about it constantly, one way or another. However, not with each other!

This is how it is with families that sleep together. Sleeping together is a shared family/friend communion (remember slumber parties?). Sex is something else again, and in my day -- at least! -- was more associated with a car or a beach than a bed! (Smiling fondly at some memories.)

One Christmas eve, when my daughter was in high school, a bunch of other kids whose families didn't celebrate Christmas (Jewish, atheist, Hindu) seemed to spontaneously decide that they wanted to spend Christmas Eve with us [since God is such a Center to our lives]. So about ten of us slept in the living room with the tree! It was a really lovely experience, boys and girls. They were here for God, not sex.

It has been said that we are to look into our brothers' and sisters' eyes and remember God. I think, to some extent, the experience of communal sleeping fosters that Oneness.

Love,

Francine

In a message dated 8/27/2007 3:04:33 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time, debhitchcockmchsi writes:

I haven’t followed this post all the way through. However, I do know the subject is “teens sleeping with Adults”. This is all I know and my opinion is; it is what it is. Everyone has their own opinions. I just wanted to add mine. I will be objectionable and say if all else fails about whether it’s right or wrong maybe someone (and I don’t look at the names here) someone hasn’t thought about this one:

When a child sleeps with a parent they begin to rely on the parent being there for safety and security reasons. It is difficult to have a child with Autism but it’s even more difficult to get the kids where they need to be in the world. It’s hard for NT kids to leave their parents bed and when a parent gets used to that child being there for whatever reason they are depriving their child of getting their child to become secure in themselves. So in reality if you think you are soothing your child as a parent may in this situation, you are actually depriving the chance in becoming independent. We all know our challenges with our kids and these challenges with Autistic kids only are bigger compared to NT (Neuro typical) kids. For example: When a teenager enters middle school their hormones change, peer pressure is much more manifested. A kid with Autism entering middle school has ten times the challenges to face. In all regards, it best suits the child (teenager) to learn self taught skills that are much more challenging with Autistic kids. Society will look at this totally different as well and if we want our Autistic kids to be normal as possible, to live within the world around us, to get along with others. It is in reason to say our Autistic children will need to learn differently. This is not the best learning curb for the child.

ly, I do agree it’s wrong although; thought it was right. (No pun intended) The world or America looked upon this as abnormal and sexual content was added by some people. It’s suspicious in looking in as “normal” behaviors. Judge mental? If someone didn’t post this expecting it to be subjected to more a debatable than the post should have never entered.

From: Autism and Aspergers Treatment [mailto:Autism and Aspergers Treatment ] On Behalf Of sunrose101aolSent: Sunday, August 26, 2007 9:40 PMAutism and Aspergers Treatment Subject: Re: Re: pondering sleeping arrangements

:*) Good night Jodi.

In a message dated 8/26/2007 9:51:39 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, jjkgardeniersbcglobal (DOT) net writes:

You are a dear Francine. I once was very shy and would never stick up for myself and now I sometimes go overboard. Yes, lets just agree to disagree. =) Thanks and bless you. Jodi> > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > -------Original Message----- --> > > > > > > > From: Jeff and Jodi > > > > Date: 20/08/2007 9:11:14 PM > > > > > > > > Now, I can see other beds or mats on the floor in the same > room > > > even > > > > After puberty but NOT under the same covers! I hope that in > > other > > > > Countries they draw a line at puberty. Even if it is to have > > > someone > > > > Sleep on the floor. > > > > > > > > ************ **** **** > > > > The short answer is no. Even in the New Testament there is a > > > story where a> > > > man doesn't want to get up in the night because his whole > > family > > > is in bed> > > > with him. Most cultures are not as obsessed with, or paranoid > > > about, sex as> > > > America and some other parts of the West are, and the thought > > that > > > sharing a> > > > bed necessarily or even probably means sex would be > considered > > > strange -> > > > especially in a family context. In some parts of the world, > the > > > idea of not> > > > sharing a bed with someone would be strange. In some > cultures, > > > the biggest> > > > social sin is to allow a guest or family member to be alone - > > even > > > when> > > > sleeping. It may not be what you are comfortable with, but > not > > > everyone> > > > shares your values. That's just life, whether we like it or > > not. > > > On a> > > > group like this where people from almost anywhere can join, > > there > > > are> > > > inevitably going to be times when you will not like or > approve > > of > > > someone> > > > else's way of life. In the global scheme of things, Western > > > culture is a a> > > > minority. Every year we become a smaller minority, so we just > > > have to get> > > > used to people doing things differently. As long as we can > live > > > the way we> > > > believe to be right, we should allow others the same > privilege.> > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ************ ******** ******** ************<WBR>*********<WBR>*****> all-> > new AOL at > > > _http://discover.http://discovehttp://disco_ > (http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour) > > >> >> > > > > > > > > > ************************************** Get a sneak peek of the all-new AOL at > http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour>

Get a sneak peek of the all-new AOL.com.

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Get a sneak peek of the all-new AOL.com.

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[Guest guest]

I agree , also why run the chance of someone misunderstanding and you being charged with a crime that never happend.i am posting replys but for some reason mine arnt going through ones i sent 2 days ago havnt showed up but yet ones peeople posted today are being posted left and right i am not being offensive in anyway so why are they not being posted

any ideas

Re: Re: pondering sleeping arrangements

:*) Good night Jodi.

In a message dated 8/26/2007 9:51:39 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, jjkgardenier@ sbcglobal. net writes:

You are a dear Francine. I once was very shy and would never stick up for myself and now I sometimes go overboard. Yes, lets just agree to disagree. =) Thanks and bless you. Jodi> > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > -------Original Message----- --> > > > > > > > From: Jeff and Jodi > > > > Date: 20/08/2007 9:11:14 PM > > > > > > > > Now, I can see other beds or mats on the floor in the same > room > > > even > > > > After puberty but NOT under the same covers! I hope that in > > other > > > > Countries they draw a line at puberty. Even if it is to have > > > someone > > > > Sleep on the floor. > > > > > > > > ************ **** **** > > > > The short answer is no. Even in the New Testament there is a > > > story

where a> > > > man doesn't want to get up in the night because his whole > > family > > > is in bed> > > > with him. Most cultures are not as obsessed with, or paranoid > > > about, sex as> > > > America and some other parts of the West are, and the thought > > that > > > sharing a> > > > bed necessarily or even probably means sex would be > considered > > > strange -> > > > especially in a family context. In some parts of the world, > the > > > idea of not> > > > sharing a bed with someone would be strange. In some > cultures, > > > the biggest> > > > social sin is to allow a guest or family member to be alone - > > even > > > when> > > > sleeping. It may not be what you are

comfortable with, but > not > > > everyone> > > > shares your values. That's just life, whether we like it or > > not. > > > On a> > > > group like this where people from almost anywhere can join, > > there > > > are> > > > inevitably going to be times when you will not like or > approve > > of > > > someone> > > > else's way of life. In the global scheme of things, Western > > > culture is a a> > > > minority. Every year we become a smaller minority, so we just > > > have to get> > > > used to people doing things differently. As long as we can > live > > > the way we> > > > believe to be right, we should allow others the same > privilege.> > > > > > > >

> > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ************ ******** ******** ************ <WBR>**** *****<WBR> *****> all-> > new AOL at > > > _http://discover. http://discoveht tp://disco_ > (http://discover. aol.com/memed/ aolcom30tour) > > >> >> > > > > > > > > > ************ ********* ********* ******** Get a sneak peek of the all-new AOL at > http://discover. aol.com/memed/ aolcom30tour>

Get a sneak peek of the all-new AOL.com.

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Get a sneak peek of the all-new AOL.com.

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[Guest guest]

I agree , also why run the chance of someone misunderstanding and you being charged with a crime that never happend.i am posting replys but for some reason mine arnt going through ones i sent 2 days ago havnt showed up but yet ones peeople posted today are being posted left and right i am not being offensive in anyway so why are they not being posted

any ideas

Re: Re: pondering sleeping arrangements

:*) Good night Jodi.

In a message dated 8/26/2007 9:51:39 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, jjkgardenier@ sbcglobal. net writes:

You are a dear Francine. I once was very shy and would never stick up for myself and now I sometimes go overboard. Yes, lets just agree to disagree. =) Thanks and bless you. Jodi> > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > -------Original Message----- --> > > > > > > > From: Jeff and Jodi > > > > Date: 20/08/2007 9:11:14 PM > > > > > > > > Now, I can see other beds or mats on the floor in the same > room > > > even > > > > After puberty but NOT under the same covers! I hope that in > > other > > > > Countries they draw a line at puberty. Even if it is to have > > > someone > > > > Sleep on the floor. > > > > > > > > ************ **** **** > > > > The short answer is no. Even in the New Testament there is a > > > story

where a> > > > man doesn't want to get up in the night because his whole > > family > > > is in bed> > > > with him. Most cultures are not as obsessed with, or paranoid > > > about, sex as> > > > America and some other parts of the West are, and the thought > > that > > > sharing a> > > > bed necessarily or even probably means sex would be > considered > > > strange -> > > > especially in a family context. In some parts of the world, > the > > > idea of not> > > > sharing a bed with someone would be strange. In some > cultures, > > > the biggest> > > > social sin is to allow a guest or family member to be alone - > > even > > > when> > > > sleeping. It may not be what you are

comfortable with, but > not > > > everyone> > > > shares your values. That's just life, whether we like it or > > not. > > > On a> > > > group like this where people from almost anywhere can join, > > there > > > are> > > > inevitably going to be times when you will not like or > approve > > of > > > someone> > > > else's way of life. In the global scheme of things, Western > > > culture is a a> > > > minority. Every year we become a smaller minority, so we just > > > have to get> > > > used to people doing things differently. As long as we can > live > > > the way we> > > > believe to be right, we should allow others the same > privilege.> > > > > > > >

> > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ************ ******** ******** ************ <WBR>**** *****<WBR> *****> all-> > new AOL at > > > _http://discover. http://discoveht tp://disco_ > (http://discover. aol.com/memed/ aolcom30tour) > > >> >> > > > > > > > > > ************ ********* ********* ******** Get a sneak peek of the all-new AOL at > http://discover. aol.com/memed/ aolcom30tour>

Get a sneak peek of the all-new AOL.com.

No virus found in this incoming message.Checked by AVG Free Edition.Version: 7.5.484 / Virus Database: 269.12.8/973 - Release Date: 8/25/2007 5:00 PM

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Get a sneak peek of the all-new AOL.com.

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[Guest guest]

I agree Carolyn

From: Autism and Aspergers Treatment [mailto:Autism and Aspergers Treatment ] On Behalf Of Carolyn

Sent: Monday, August 27, 2007 1:29

PM

Autism and Aspergers Treatment

Subject: Re:

Re: pondering sleeping arrangements

Hello all,

I was surprised to see you all still

pondering sleeping arrangements, have been reading all your comments this way

and that, and a thought comes to me. Do you Francine, and any others of

you think it is possible for a parent to come under temptation if the

right situation is presented where this could possibly happen.

This thought has come to me lately, not

from this discussion alone, but from all the reports that are making

it seem to me like there is an epidemic landslide of people, they look

like just ordinary people to me, men mostly, who ALL OF A

SUDDEN start molesting their own children! Or other people's children.

I watched this thing on TV not too long

ago, it was an Internet sting actually, where detectives set up a track in

order to catch men who wanted to go and have sex with children. They would write

back and forth to them, set up the place and time, the men would show up and

get busted.

What shocked me is they were normal

men, husbands, fathers, doctors, lawyers, teachers, ministers, etc.

All I am saying is there is something

going on these days in our world, and maybe it pays for us all to be more

vigilant than ever before, not only for our children's sakes, but for our own

sakes. Because I don't think any of these men ever thought they could be

tempted this way, but yet they were, and their lives were ruined.

It is pitiful, but it is happening in

larger numbers all the time.

Carolyn

Re:

Re: pondering sleeping arrangements

:*) Good night Jodi.

In a message dated 8/26/2007 9:51:39 P.M. Eastern Daylight

Time, jjkgardeniersbcglobal (DOT) net writes:

You are a dear Francine. I once was very shy and

would never stick

up for myself and now I sometimes go overboard. Yes, lets just

agree to disagree. =) Thanks and bless you. Jodi

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > -------Original Message----- --

> > > >

> > > > From: Jeff and Jodi

> > > > Date: 20/08/2007 9:11:14 PM

> > > >

> > > > Now, I can see other beds or mats on the floor in the same

> room

> > > even

> > > > After puberty but NOT under the same covers! I hope that in

> > other

> > > > Countries they draw a line at puberty. Even if it is to

have

> > > someone

> > > > Sleep on the floor.

> > > >

> > > > ************ **** ****

> > > > The short answer is no. Even in the New Testament there is

a

> > > story where a

> > > > man doesn't want to get up in the night because his whole

> > family

> > > is in bed

> > > > with him. Most cultures are not as obsessed with, or

paranoid

> > > about, sex as

> > > > America and

some other parts of the West are, and the

thought

> > that

> > > sharing a

> > > > bed necessarily or even probably means sex would be

> considered

> > > strange -

> > > > especially in a family context. In some parts of the world,

> the

> > > idea of not

> > > > sharing a bed with someone would be strange. In some

> cultures,

> > > the biggest

> > > > social sin is to allow a guest or family member to be

alone -

> > even

> > > when

> > > > sleeping. It may not be what you are comfortable with, but

> not

> > > everyone

> > > > shares your values. That's just life, whether we like it or

> > not.

> > > On a

> > > > group like this where people from almost anywhere can join,

> > there

> > > are

> > > > inevitably going to be times when you will not like or

> approve

> > of

> > > someone

> > > > else's way of life. In the global scheme of things, Western

> > > culture is a a

> > > > minority. Every year we become a smaller minority, so we

just

> > > have to get

> > > > used to people doing things differently. As long as we can

> live

> > > the way we

> > > > believe to be right, we should allow others the same

> privilege.

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > ************ ******** ********

************<WBR>*********<WBR>*****

> all-

> > new AOL at

> > > _http://discover.http://discovehttp://disco_

> (http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour)

> > >

> >

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

> ************************************** Get a sneak peek of

the all-

new AOL at

> http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour

>

Get a sneak peek of the all-new AOL.com.

No virus found in

this incoming message.

Checked by AVG Free Edition.

Version: 7.5.484 / Virus Database: 269.12.8/973 - Release Date: 8/25/2007 5:00

PM

No virus found in this outgoing message.

Checked by AVG Free Edition.

Version: 7.5.484 / Virus Database: 269.12.8/973 - Release Date: 8/25/2007 5:00

PM

Get a sneak peek of the all-new AOL.com.

No virus

found in this incoming message.

Checked by AVG Free Edition.

Version: 7.5.484 / Virus Database: 269.12.9/975 - Release Date: 8/26/2007 9:34

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No virus

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[Guest guest]

I also think the forum is Autism-Aspergers

and in relation to this. Not that sleeping with a child has anything to do with

it unless thee child is autistic and he is saying that the child has fears in

sleeping alone and stresses out when doing so. Even then it is still depriving

the child. Morally, culturally however he wants to view it.

I think he should seriously talk to a

professional about this.

From: Autism and Aspergers Treatment [mailto:Autism and Aspergers Treatment ] On Behalf Of Carolyn

Sent: Monday, August 27, 2007 1:29

PM

Autism and Aspergers Treatment

Subject: Re:

Re: pondering sleeping arrangements

Hello all,

I was surprised to see you all still

pondering sleeping arrangements, have been reading all your comments this way

and that, and a thought comes to me. Do you Francine, and any others of

you think it is possible for a parent to come under temptation if the

right situation is presented where this could possibly happen.

This thought has come to me lately, not

from this discussion alone, but from all the reports that are making

it seem to me like there is an epidemic landslide of people, they look

like just ordinary people to me, men mostly, who ALL OF A

SUDDEN start molesting their own children! Or other people's children.

I watched this thing on TV not too long

ago, it was an Internet sting actually, where detectives set up a track in

order to catch men who wanted to go and have sex with children. They would

write back and forth to them, set up the place and time, the men would show up

and get busted.

What shocked me is they were normal

men, husbands, fathers, doctors, lawyers, teachers, ministers, etc.

All I am saying is there is something

going on these days in our world, and maybe it pays for us all to be more

vigilant than ever before, not only for our children's sakes, but for our own

sakes. Because I don't think any of these men ever thought they could be

tempted this way, but yet they were, and their lives were ruined.

It is pitiful, but it is happening in

larger numbers all the time.

Carolyn

Re:

Re: pondering sleeping arrangements

:*) Good night Jodi.

In a message dated 8/26/2007 9:51:39 P.M. Eastern Daylight

Time, jjkgardeniersbcglobal (DOT) net writes:

You are a dear Francine. I once was very shy and

would never stick

up for myself and now I sometimes go overboard. Yes, lets just

agree to disagree. =) Thanks and bless you. Jodi

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > -------Original Message----- --

> > > >

> > > > From: Jeff and Jodi

> > > > Date: 20/08/2007 9:11:14 PM

> > > >

> > > > Now, I can see other beds or mats on the floor in the same

> room

> > > even

> > > > After puberty but NOT under the same covers! I hope that in

> > other

> > > > Countries they draw a line at puberty. Even if it is to

have

> > > someone

> > > > Sleep on the floor.

> > > >

> > > > ************ **** ****

> > > > The short answer is no. Even in the New Testament there is

a

> > > story where a

> > > > man doesn't want to get up in the night because his whole

> > family

> > > is in bed

> > > > with him. Most cultures are not as obsessed with, or

paranoid

> > > about, sex as

> > > > America and

some other parts of the West are, and the

thought

> > that

> > > sharing a

> > > > bed necessarily or even probably means sex would be

> considered

> > > strange -

> > > > especially in a family context. In some parts of the world,

> the

> > > idea of not

> > > > sharing a bed with someone would be strange. In some

> cultures,

> > > the biggest

> > > > social sin is to allow a guest or family member to be

alone -

> > even

> > > when

> > > > sleeping. It may not be what you are comfortable with, but

> not

> > > everyone

> > > > shares your values. That's just life, whether we like it or

> > not.

> > > On a

> > > > group like this where people from almost anywhere can join,

> > there

> > > are

> > > > inevitably going to be times when you will not like or

> approve

> > of

> > > someone

> > > > else's way of life. In the global scheme of things, Western

> > > culture is a a

> > > > minority. Every year we become a smaller minority, so we

just

> > > have to get

> > > > used to people doing things differently. As long as we can

> live

> > > the way we

> > > > believe to be right, we should allow others the same

> privilege.

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > ************ ******** ********

************<WBR>*********<WBR>*****

> all-

> > new AOL at

> > > _http://discover.http://discovehttp://disco_

> (http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour)

> > >

> >

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

> ************************************** Get a sneak peek of

the all-

new AOL at

> http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour

>

Get a sneak peek of the all-new AOL.com.

No virus found in

this incoming message.

Checked by AVG Free Edition.

Version: 7.5.484 / Virus Database: 269.12.8/973 - Release Date: 8/25/2007 5:00

PM

No virus found in this outgoing message.

Checked by AVG Free Edition.

Version: 7.5.484 / Virus Database: 269.12.8/973 - Release Date: 8/25/2007 5:00

PM

Get a sneak peek of the all-new AOL.com.

No virus

found in this incoming message.

Checked by AVG Free Edition.

Version: 7.5.484 / Virus Database: 269.12.9/975 - Release Date: 8/26/2007 9:34

PM

No virus

found in this outgoing message.

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PM

No virus found in this incoming message.

Checked by AVG Free Edition.

Version: 7.5.484 / Virus Database: 269.12.9/975 - Release Date: 8/26/2007 9:34 PM

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Checked by AVG Free Edition.

Version: 7.5.484 / Virus Database: 269.12.9/975 - Release Date: 8/26/2007 9:34 PM

[Guest guest]

it started with a mom asking a question about her son being in the same bed nothing even bad just a question about it .it just started to then go into a debate about the family bed .the woman who asked about it didnt want the child in bed ,(if i recollect right has been awhile since the first post lol)any way then other people started writeing in about letting the child sleep with her .she didnt agree with it so that got a reply from the same person about a freind who sleeps with her kids (even the teens) and they are fine what not ,well the the other replied back she didnt think that was right and thus started the family bed debate

well hopefully yinz can read this seein how mine arent posting i know the moderators have a lot to read but ones i posted a few days ago or this am arnt being posted yet ones people posted like 10 mins ago are on here already

Re: Re: pondering sleeping arrangements

:*) Good night Jodi.

In a message dated 8/26/2007 9:51:39 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, jjkgardenier@ sbcglobal. net writes:

You are a dear Francine. I once was very shy and would never stick up for myself and now I sometimes go overboard. Yes, lets just agree to disagree. =) Thanks and bless you. Jodi> > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > -------Original Message----- --> > > > > > > > From: Jeff and Jodi > > > > Date: 20/08/2007 9:11:14 PM > > > > > > > > Now, I can see other beds or mats on the floor in the same > room > > > even > > > > After puberty but NOT under the same covers! I hope that in > > other > > > > Countries they draw a line at puberty. Even if it is to have > > > someone > > > > Sleep on the floor. > > > > > > > > ************ **** **** > > > > The short answer is no. Even in the New Testament there is a > > > story

where a> > > > man doesn't want to get up in the night because his whole > > family > > > is in bed> > > > with him. Most cultures are not as obsessed with, or paranoid > > > about, sex as> > > > America and some other parts of the West are, and the thought > > that > > > sharing a> > > > bed necessarily or even probably means sex would be > considered > > > strange -> > > > especially in a family context. In some parts of the world, > the > > > idea of not> > > > sharing a bed with someone would be strange. In some > cultures, > > > the biggest> > > > social sin is to allow a guest or family member to be alone - > > even > > > when> > > > sleeping. It may not be what you are

comfortable with, but > not > > > everyone> > > > shares your values. That's just life, whether we like it or > > not. > > > On a> > > > group like this where people from almost anywhere can join, > > there > > > are> > > > inevitably going to be times when you will not like or > approve > > of > > > someone> > > > else's way of life. In the global scheme of things, Western > > > culture is a a> > > > minority. Every year we become a smaller minority, so we just > > > have to get> > > > used to people doing things differently. As long as we can > live > > > the way we> > > > believe to be right, we should allow others the same > privilege.> > > > > > > >

> > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ************ ******** ******** ************ <WBR>**** *****<WBR> *****> all-> > new AOL at > > > _http://discover. http://discoveht tp://disco_ > (http://discover. aol.com/memed/ aolcom30tour) > > >> >> > > > > > > > > > ************ ********* ********* ******** Get a sneak peek of the all-new AOL at > http://discover. aol.com/memed/ aolcom30tour>

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it started with a mom asking a question about her son being in the same bed nothing even bad just a question about it .it just started to then go into a debate about the family bed .the woman who asked about it didnt want the child in bed ,(if i recollect right has been awhile since the first post lol)any way then other people started writeing in about letting the child sleep with her .she didnt agree with it so that got a reply from the same person about a freind who sleeps with her kids (even the teens) and they are fine what not ,well the the other replied back she didnt think that was right and thus started the family bed debate

well hopefully yinz can read this seein how mine arent posting i know the moderators have a lot to read but ones i posted a few days ago or this am arnt being posted yet ones people posted like 10 mins ago are on here already

Re: Re: pondering sleeping arrangements

:*) Good night Jodi.

In a message dated 8/26/2007 9:51:39 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, jjkgardenier@ sbcglobal. net writes:

You are a dear Francine. I once was very shy and would never stick up for myself and now I sometimes go overboard. Yes, lets just agree to disagree. =) Thanks and bless you. Jodi> > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > -------Original Message----- --> > > > > > > > From: Jeff and Jodi > > > > Date: 20/08/2007 9:11:14 PM > > > > > > > > Now, I can see other beds or mats on the floor in the same > room > > > even > > > > After puberty but NOT under the same covers! I hope that in > > other > > > > Countries they draw a line at puberty. Even if it is to have > > > someone > > > > Sleep on the floor. > > > > > > > > ************ **** **** > > > > The short answer is no. Even in the New Testament there is a > > > story

where a> > > > man doesn't want to get up in the night because his whole > > family > > > is in bed> > > > with him. Most cultures are not as obsessed with, or paranoid > > > about, sex as> > > > America and some other parts of the West are, and the thought > > that > > > sharing a> > > > bed necessarily or even probably means sex would be > considered > > > strange -> > > > especially in a family context. In some parts of the world, > the > > > idea of not> > > > sharing a bed with someone would be strange. In some > cultures, > > > the biggest> > > > social sin is to allow a guest or family member to be alone - > > even > > > when> > > > sleeping. It may not be what you are

comfortable with, but > not > > > everyone> > > > shares your values. That's just life, whether we like it or > > not. > > > On a> > > > group like this where people from almost anywhere can join, > > there > > > are> > > > inevitably going to be times when you will not like or > approve > > of > > > someone> > > > else's way of life. In the global scheme of things, Western > > > culture is a a> > > > minority. Every year we become a smaller minority, so we just > > > have to get> > > > used to people doing things differently. As long as we can > live > > > the way we> > > > believe to be right, we should allow others the same > privilege.> > > > > > > >

> > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ************ ******** ******** ************ <WBR>**** *****<WBR> *****> all-> > new AOL at > > > _http://discover. http://discoveht tp://disco_ > (http://discover. aol.com/memed/ aolcom30tour) > > >> >> > > > > > > > > > ************ ********* ********* ******** Get a sneak peek of the all-new AOL at > http://discover. aol.com/memed/ aolcom30tour>

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Dear Deb,

Well I just remembered the comedian's name: Sam Levenson. It wasn't a Jewish custom, but rather that the family was very poor.

When I said 'cultural', I didn't mean other nationalities of the Western world, but rather much different ways of living.

It would appear from most of the media and even the thought that would take "The Family Bed" to lead to sex, that America, and I'm sure now, other countries who so want to be like us, is obsessed with sex.

Perhaps it is the constant promotion of sex that has encouraged child molestation?

One of my stepdaughters took a course in high school about sex in advertisements, and she was constantly pointing out all the obvious and 'subliminal' sexual messages in media ads.

As far as sleeping with parents impeding self-reliance, I don't think so. And as far as autism goes, whatever gentle thing comforts our children and lessens the stress they feel, who is anyone to judge it?

As another stepdaughter said, who loved to quote Chief ph: We shouldn't judge anyone until we've walked a mile in their mocassins.

Again, we can all agree to disagree.

Love,

Francine

In a message dated 8/27/2007 2:13:13 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, debhitchcock@... writes:

My comments are under yours…see below.

From: Autism and Aspergers Treatment [mailto:Autism and Aspergers Treatment ] On Behalf Of sunrose101aolSent: Monday, August 27, 2007 8:48 AMAutism and Aspergers Treatment Subject: Re: Re: pondering sleeping arrangements

Well, I guess I'll respond to your email Deb, since it's to my response about agreeing to disagree.

What shows up for me here is just how much we are products of our cultural beliefs -- either in agreement or in disregard of them.

<<<Sleeping with your children in other believes, cultural settings was not the topic. However, since cultural beliefs has been brought into this subject agreed or disagreed, disregarded or not; “products of our cultural beliefs†is in the view you have currently. It maybe true most people view it this way from the cultural environment. That is their right, what they believe, such as you. Besides, I am not convinced it’s entirely cultural subjected. I have not seen statistics that gives me figures of how much is “cultural†and how much is not. I would need more proof for you to convince me on what is morally right and what is cultural. I think that is a huge difference in the original subject than what was posted. >>>>>

My guess is that psychologically-oriented, sex-obsessed, uptight America has much more child sexual abuse -- than other, more relaxed cultures.

<<<<< How do you know this, give me the statistics, in figures and from a reasonable source. “Uptight America†as you put it hasn’t gotten there for any reason. Children have been de moralized due to certain acts that are morally wrong in every cultural insight. Liberals mainly think this way as you do does it mean they are from another cultural? Relaxed cultural maybe contributing to why America’s children has more child sexual abuse have you ever thought that? Again, there are no statistics that give your statements the truth. America is what it is and there are a lot of cultural oriented people here. This doesn’t mean that it is uptight America when other cultures also sexually abuse children too, in America I might add. It’s my opinion when someone moves here from another country they have a right to practice their own cultural beliefs as long as it doesn’t affect children in a harmful way. Uptight or not, America’s opinion what is based on what is morally wrong. I have never mentioned sexuality. Since you mentioned it, I can’t see where Americans are obsessed with it. >>>>>

I can remember a famous Jewish comedian, in his autobiography, writing about how all eight kids in his family slept together. Now we know that brother-sister abuse happens; so is the incidence of it higher in poor families with tight living arrangement? Probably not.

<<< Who really cares what Jewish families do-their cultural their families. I just made the comment about how a child doesn’t develop self skills by sleeping with an adult. >>>>

There actually is a genuine ... warmth of spirit -- for lack of better words -- in closeness, that is spontaneously natural and normal to us, that has nothing to do with sex and everything to do with an acknowledgment that we all want that closeness.

My high school friends and I slept together on sleepovers. If anyone had suggested this was improper (and our parents obviously didn't think so) we would have been horrified. Were our teenaged minds obsessed with sex? Absolutely! We talked about it constantly, one way or another. However, not with each other!

This is how it is with families that sleep together. Sleeping together is a shared family/friend communion (remember slumber parties?). Sex is something else again, and in my day -- at least! -- was more associated with a car or a beach than a bed! (Smiling fondly at some memories.)

One Christmas eve, when my daughter was in high school, a bunch of other kids whose families didn't celebrate Christmas (Jewish, atheist, Hindu) seemed to spontaneously decide that they wanted to spend Christmas Eve with us [since God is such a Center to our lives]. So about ten of us slept in the living room with the tree! It was a really lovely experience, boys and girls. They were here for God, not sex.

It has been said that we are to look into our brothers' and sisters' eyes and remember God. I think, to some extent, the experience of communal sleeping fosters that Oneness.

Love,

Francine

In a message dated 8/27/2007 3:04:33 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time, debhitchcockmchsi writes:

I haven’t followed this post all the way through. However, I do know the subject is “teens sleeping with Adultsâ€. This is all I know and my opinion is; it is what it is. Everyone has their own opinions. I just wanted to add mine. I will be objectionable and say if all else fails about whether it’s right or wrong maybe someone (and I don’t look at the names here) someone hasn’t thought about this one:

When a child sleeps with a parent they begin to rely on the parent being there for safety and security reasons. It is difficult to have a child with Autism but it’s even more difficult to get the kids where they need to be in the world. It’s hard for NT kids to leave their parents bed and when a parent gets used to that child being there for whatever reason they are depriving their child of getting their child to become secure in themselves. So in reality if you think you are soothing your child as a parent may in this situation, you are actually depriving the chance in becoming independent. We all know our challenges with our kids and these challenges with Autistic kids only are bigger compared to NT (Neuro typical) kids. For example: When a teenager enters middle school their hormones change, peer pressure is much more manifested. A kid with Autism entering middle school has ten times the challenges to face. In all regards, it best suits the child (teenager) to learn self taught skills that are much more challenging with Autistic kids. Society will look at this totally different as well and if we want our Autistic kids to be normal as possible, to live within the world around us, to get along with others. It is in reason to say our Autistic children will need to learn differently. This is not the best learning curb for the child.

ly, I do agree it’s wrong although; thought it was right. (No pun intended) The world or America looked upon this as abnormal and sexual content was added by some people. It’s suspicious in looking in as “normal†behaviors. Judge mental? If someone didn’t post this expecting it to be subjected to more a debatable than the post should have never entered.

From: Autism and Aspergers Treatment [mailto:Autism and Aspergers Treatment ] On Behalf Of sunrose101aolSent: Sunday, August 26, 2007 9:40 PMAutism and Aspergers Treatment Subject: Re: Re: pondering sleeping arrangements

:*) Good night Jodi.

In a message dated 8/26/2007 9:51:39 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, jjkgardeniersbcglobal (DOT) net writes:

You are a dear Francine. I once was very shy and would never stick up for myself and now I sometimes go overboard. Yes, lets just agree to disagree. =) Thanks and bless you. Jodi> > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > -------Original Message----- --> > > > > > > > From: Jeff and Jodi > > > > Date: 20/08/2007 9:11:14 PM > > > > > > > > Now, I can see other beds or mats on the floor in the same > room > > > even > > > > After puberty but NOT under the same covers! I hope that in > > other > > > > Countries they draw a line at puberty. Even if it is to have > > > someone > > > > Sleep on the floor. > > > > > > > > ************ **** **** > > > > The short answer is no. Even in the New Testament there is a > > > story where a> > > > man doesn't want to get up in the night because his whole > > family > > > is in bed> > > > with him. Most cultures are not as obsessed with, or paranoid > > > about, sex as> > > > America and some other parts of the West are, and the thought > > that > > > sharing a> > > > bed necessarily or even probably means sex would be > considered > > > strange -> > > > especially in a family context. In some parts of the world, > the > > > idea of not> > > > sharing a bed with someone would be strange. In some > cultures, > > > the biggest> > > > social sin is to allow a guest or family member to be alone - > > even > > > when> > > > sleeping. It may not be what you are comfortable with, but > not > > > everyone> > > > shares your values. That's just life, whether we like it or > > not. > > > On a> > > > group like this where people from almost anywhere can join, > > there > > > are> > > > inevitably going to be times when you will not like or > approve > > of > > > someone> > > > else's way of life. In the global scheme of things, Western > > > culture is a a> > > > minority. Every year we become a smaller minority, so we just > > > have to get> > > > used to people doing things differently. As long as we can > live > > > the way we> > > > believe to be right, we should allow others the same > privilege.> > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ************ ******** ******** ************<WBR>*********<WBR>*****> all-> > new AOL at > > > _http://discover.http://discovehttp://disco_ > (http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour) > > >> >> > > > > > > > > > ************************************** Get a sneak peek of the all-new AOL at > http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour>

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