At church, ever have

July 3, 2007

I am sure that it seems that way - however - I have found that the organizations are as I have stated. I was not getting personal, but rather speaking in a general way and more about the organized sections of such. I guess it appeared that I was finger pointing or whatever, but I was simply stating my experience (and there has been plenty of it!). I am glad to hear that some of you have had positive experiences within "the church". I haven't yet done so, and at this point, chose not to try any longer. Carolyn <charper777@...> wrote: Hello Jenn, You say "but Christians tend to back bite and point fingers and get truly nasty," but don't you see you are doing that very thing yourself in your letter? I am a Christian and I do not do that, and I know few other Christians who do, but I am sure you are right in that there are some. I for one love the Jewish people because my Savior was Jewish. My husband is a Jew for Jesus, was raised Jewish in NY by his grandparents. His mom, their daughter, and his little brother and sister had been murdered by her husband. She was divorced from 's father, who

was Christian. Anyway I don't think it matters who you are, as long as you believe in Jesus Christ as the Savior and Messiah, and know who He is. I know the Jews do believe, just don't think He has come yet, but I think one day their eyes will all be opened. Meanwhile let us try to love one another, as Jesus said; This is my commandment that you love one another. Carolyn Re: At church, ever have Carolyn,Friendship Circle does that here in San Diego - http://www.friendshipcirclesd.com/ - it is one of the most amazing organizations around. In fact, my entire family leans more and more towards completely abandoning the "church" and going back to a traditional Jewish upbringing. That is one of the biggest issues I have with "the church" - perhaps it is because as Jews we number less than 1% of the world's population and have learned to stick together, but Christians tend to back bite and point fingers and get truly nasty.I think that if we can find a temple nearby, we will go back to being observant Jews,

believing in Yshua in our own homes and hearts.Carolyn <charper777comcast (DOT) net> wrote: Hello Marie, It sounds like your heart is in the right place on this. With me and my son I got to the point where I had somebody stay with him at home, so I could go to church, in fact I do that now. At least that way I get to go and get filled with the Holy Spirit each Sunday. Can somebody stay with your four while you go? Your husband maybe? . Life may not be the party we asked for - but while we're here, let's dance!

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July 3, 2007

hello this is for all that have wrote in on this .this is just with my experiences.

but before i get to it

MARIE That pastor was so wrong for doing that .how can he say how you parent . he isnt with you every day, day in day out .THAT IS NOT A CHRISTIAN WAY.we are not to judge others we are not to critisise but some people forget ,the ones who tend to think they are better than every one else. i also get sick and tired of people blaming the parents for the kids disorders .you dont need that kind of bullshit .

but dont give up on church there are ones out there that are good but a church is only as good as the people with in it. i recommend a church with a lot of down to earth people .( ones with kids and even special needs kids)

i have been to a few churches in my years before being a parent and i have been made to feel uncomfortable like i am not worthy of there presence but that aint the religion that is the people trying to make you feel inferior to make them feel good about themselves or well some people just do it to be assholes .

now my church i attend now i like havnt been there for a fewmonths , for personal reasons ( my illnesses) but there are a few special needs kids in this church besides my own.

since my kids have started back in 99 they have made changes in how things are ran . they now have quiet bags in the sanctuary(sp) the bags are just little cloth bags that the various commitees sew and through donated stuff they fill them with little toys and books and coloring pages etc.. the kids play with them and then at the end of the service they turn them back in my son derek does well with these and he sits in the service no problem ( even when i had to leave for the other one)there are a few people in the pews where i sit who keep an eye on him to make sure he dont get unruly but they never had to do anything he did well .

now during service they have a nursery going for the wee ones just a babysitting type thing it is for infant up to 6 yrs old

my son michael is 11 he isnt allowed in there ( too old and cuz he is proned to throwing and hitting and their are babies in there )but since he has an attachment for his sister (4) he throws fits in the pew to see her so i take him in . now some of the attendents will take him in with out me if there are no babies, if there is babies i will stay with him and that is welcome .. in the nursery our church had installed a tv to watch the service so the people in the nursery dont miss it ..

the other changes we have had happened is one of the congregation is a speical needs teacher and she has been working in with the other sunday school teachers .she also has helped with the boys when michael would act up she has taken him out for a walk around the halls til he calms down .

now in our church we have this

we are lutheron

during the summer we do not have sunday school .(just like regualer school )

then in sept it starts back up they hold it from 9 to 10 am on sunday then service starts at 10:15 then they are xpected to sit in service.our pastor keeps it lively most like being there .

we also have a saturday service .

i have had gotten some looks or maybe a sniff at u . but no one that i recall moved .people do make comments i ignore it i have as much right to be in service as them . ALL KIDS act up whether they have disorders or not.but some parents tend to live in a dreamland that thier kida are perfect.(lol not the case lol )

now our church has confirmation classes which my boys cannot do it is to involved for them but the pastor has talked to me about needing to get them into the confirmation classes so he said we will have to work on getting it set up for them where they can do it .( basically get 7 yrs worth of confirmation classes in to a short program aimed at 2 nd graders )my ojne son has already completed the communion class and he can have holy communion but he dotn want to he wont do it he is scared for some reason i wont force him (in my opinion whether he takes communion or not aint going to hinder him getting into heaven ,)just like i aint in any hurry to get the confirmation done it isnt like u need to do this to get into heaven .

as to christians pointing fingers or what not that is all religions they all do it ( it is the area of people thinking they are right and the others are wrong. that thier religion is the one and only. there is no perfect and all religions need to remember that .and no one knows which one is the true religion .

just remember treat others how you yourself would want to be treated . and love one another and help others .just things we all should be doing anyway regardless if God said it or not .

DONT GIVE UP ON FINDING A CHURCH .HERE IS A NEW APPROACH MAYBE LET THE KIDS PICK THE CHURCH AND GO WITH THAT ANYTHING WORTH HAVING IS WORTH FIGHTING FOR .

SORRY BOUT THE BOOK I AM IN A CHATTY MOOD TONIGHT LOL

VICKIE

Re: At church, ever have

Hi Carolyn,

I so totally agree with what you shared. We are a Bible believing family and definitely appreciate and revere the Word of God. My dh and myself are ministerial graduates so our children are definitely taught about the Lord. We are partners with Copeland Ministries and I make use of their prayer line for special requests and prayer needs, which helps tremdously. Plus I learn so much from their books, teaching tapes, sermons, and watching the live Internet service.

We just haven't figured out how to attend Church locally with technically 4 ASD family members. We have tried so many options and just haven't come up with anything that works yet. We can't leave our kids in order to go up to the altar for prayer and if we take them to the service with us we get almost nothing out of it because we are so busy dealing with them and making sure they are semi quiet, etc. It is just so stressful that it doesn't seem worth the effort most of the time, but we haven't given up completely. We have been discussing it again now that my dh is not working Sundays anymore. But we will have to wait and see how things turn out. So far no new ideas have come up.

Marie

www.freedom4familie s.com

..

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July 6, 2007

Dear Jen. I just hope you find peace about this one day and find a

good group of people that will be like a good family for you. I'm

sorry about the experiences you have been through that brought you

to this bitterness towards the church. You must have been through

alot. Jodi

> > >

> > > Carolyn,

> > >

> > > Friendship Circle does that here in San Diego -

> > http://www.friendshipcirclesd.com/ - it is one of the most

amazing

> > organizations around. In fact, my entire family leans more and

> more

> > towards completely abandoning the " church " and going back to a

> > traditional Jewish upbringing. That is one of the biggest

issues

> I

> > have with " the church " - perhaps it is because as Jews we

number

> > less than 1% of the world's population and have learned to

stick

> > together, but Christians tend to back bite and point fingers

and

> get

> > truly nasty.

> >

>

> Life may not be the party we asked for - but while we're here,

let's dance!

>

> ---------------------------------

> Building a website is a piece of cake.

> Small Business gives you all the tools to get online.

>

July 6, 2007

I didn't find any bitterness in Jen's post. Just statements of what happened.

Francine

In a message dated 7/6/2007 8:20:54 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time, jjkgardenier@... writes:

Dear Jen. I just hope you find peace about this one day and find a good group of people that will be like a good family for you. I'm sorry about the experiences you have been through that brought you to this bitterness towards the church. You must have been through alot. Jodi> > >> > > Carolyn,> > > > > > Friendship Circle does that here in San Diego - > > http://www.friendshipcirclesd.com/ - it is one of the most amazing > > organizations around. In fact, my entire family leans more and > more > > towards completely abandoning the "church" and going back to a > > traditional Jewish upbringing. That is one of the biggest issues > I > > have with "the church" - perhaps it is because as Jews we number > > less than 1% of the world's population and have learned to stick > > together, but Christians tend to back bite and point fingers and > get > > truly nasty.> >> > > > > > > Life may not be the party we asked for - but while we're here, let's dance!> > > > ---------------------------------> Building a website is a piece of cake. > Small Business gives you all the tools to get online.>

See what's free at AOL.com.

July 6, 2007

Jodi, I wouldn't say that I am bitter towards the church, I have simply come to a place of understanding that a church community is not where we "belong". There has been a long history of unpleasantness that my husband (who is Southern Baptist) and I have dealt with, the least of which was our church's attitude and behavior towards our children. We were members of the same local church for almost five years, hoping it would get better, which it never did. I was hurt, but don't think that I am bitter. I have come to a place of acceptance about it, and a realization that returning to my family's faith is the most positive thing that I can do for my family. Jeff and Jodi <jjkgardenier@...> wrote: Dear Jen. I just hope you find peace about this one day and find a good group of people that will be like a good family for you. I'm sorry about the experiences you have been through that brought you to this bitterness towards the church. You must have been through alot. Jodi> > >> > > Carolyn,> > > > > > Friendship Circle does that here in San Diego - > > http://www.friendshipcirclesd.com/ - it is one of the most amazing > > organizations around. In fact, my entire family leans more and > more > > towards completely abandoning the "church" and going back to a > > traditional Jewish upbringing. That is one of the biggest issues > I > > have with "the church" - perhaps it is because as Jews we number > > less than 1% of the world's population and have learned to stick > > together, but Christians tend to back bite and point fingers and > get > >

truly nasty.> >> > > > > > > Life may not be the party we asked for - but while we're here, let's dance!> > > > ---------------------------------> Building a website is a piece of cake. > Small Business gives you all the tools to get online.> Life may not be the party we asked for - but while we're here, let's dance!

Pinpoint customers who are looking for what you sell.

July 6, 2007

Hello again Jenn,

You say you have come from a large variety of churches and denominations, I thought you said you were Jewish. I know what you saying about a lot of people is true, being Christian or not, people are just in general not very nice to one another, so it is one thing we definitely all can work on.

I am sorry you have had bad experiences at the churches you have gone to. I have gone to church now for 33 years and have managed to stay clear of any problems, learned early on it was not Scriptural to back bite, and gossip, and tear down others, etc. so simply do not do it.

I belong to another group however, and there are a lot of pastors there, it is my denomination, and have been shocked to learn how mean people are to these pastors! There have been lots of big church fights, splits, on and on. I had no idea at all, but have to admit it makes sense, is all human nature after all.

This is why we are told by God in His Word to yield to His Spirit, the Holy Spirit, and to not commit the lusts of the flesh. This is our assignment, and it can be done.

I have enjoyed your insights, and understand where you are coming from, but do not yield to that way myself, and I know many others don't either, but then they are NOT reported on on CNN, etc. :: 00 (((

Carolyn

Re: Re: At church, ever have

Because I was brought up "in the church" I feel that I have a right and a reason to say this as a generality and coming from a background of a large variety of churches and denominations. It was not meant to be directed at anyone, simply stating my experience.If you took this personally, please understand that it was not meant as such, simply a statement of my experience within spiritual communities.Jeff and Jodi <jjkgardeniersbcglobal (DOT) net> wrote:

Forgive me for saying that you where finger pointing and being nasty. That was very childish of me and I apologize. I was feeling defensive but no excuse for rude behavior. Jodi> >> > Carolyn,> > > > Friendship Circle does that here in San Diego - > http://www.friendshipcirclesd.com/ - it is one of the most amazing > organizations around. In fact, my entire family leans more and more > towards completely abandoning the "church" and going back to a > traditional Jewish upbringing. That is one of the biggest issues I > have with "the church" - perhaps it is because as Jews we number > less than 1% of the world's population and have learned to stick > together, but Christians tend to back bite and point fingers and get > truly nasty.>

Life may not be the party we asked for - but while we're here, let's dance!

Building a website is a piece of cake. Small Business gives you all the tools to get online.

July 6, 2007

Hi Jenn, I just wrote to you, but will jump in again. You say you chose not to go to church because you have had some bad experiences there. I think this is a shame, because I would think you would be going to church to find God there. This is what I do, I go to church, I worship God, and listen to the sermon, and then go up for prayer. I do say hello to people, but then I go home. I am done.

Once a long time ago I was talking to my alcoholic brother on the phone. I was always trying to get him to go to church to find Jesus, and get delivered of his alcoholism, and he told me one time that he would go to church, but church was full of hypocrites.

I just sat there for a minute, didn't know what to say, finally spoke up and said but I GO THERE, and I am not a hypocrite. Seems to me this is the devil's trick to keep people out of church, and it has worked for thousands of years now. Sigh.

Anyway his alcoholism finally led him to liver failure, he had cirrhosis very badly and was going down hill and had to move from his little farm to our elderly mom's, so he could get medical help. And he didn't even have a doctor, so I had to take him to mine, it was a miracle they could get him in, and the doctor said, "Sir you need a new liver, and you are not a likely candidate for a transplant."

He just sat there in my son's wheelchair I had barrowed to roll him down there, could not walk his liver was so swollen, and he said, "Well then I need to sue the beer company for making that beer," and I don't think he was kidding either!

The doc prescribed oxycodon for his pain, and I took him over to Senior Services where he got a med card from Medicaid, so he could get the help he needed, as he was soon to go to the hospital, back and forth for a few months. I kept trying to talk to him about Jesus, told him he had to listen to me because he was going to be seeing Him soon, and had to be right with Him first! But he would always get mad at me so I had to quit.

Then he went to a nursing home, but he could not stand it there, was only there one night, and then back to ER, we were all stressed out. My mom was over 85 years old, his enabler for years. That day he was at ER I called my pastor, it was Sunday morning, and my pastor said he would come down. And he went right in there and led my brother to the Lord, led the sinner's prayer, and my brother followed along repeating it. He did get stuck when he was supposed to confess he was a sinner, but finally he said it.

And when he was done he asked the pastor if he had just had the "last rites," and we all laughed because our church doesn't do that, that is Catholics. Well anyway after that my brother was "saved, born again" as the Bible calls it, after he accepted Jesus into his heart as his Savior.

He never left the hospital after that, as he declined. They had him on morphine and most of the time he was out, but I went to him and prayed with him, told him I loved him, and read Scripture to Him, mostly the Psalms, "As I walk through the valley of the shadow of death I will fear now evil, He is with me, His rod and His staff will comfort me....."

I had never been so close to my brother, he was a really sweet man in many ways, but was just a sinner, and an alcoholic, who thought "the church" was the problem, and really his sin was the problem.

Anyway he is with Jesus now, and I know that one day I will see him. My oldest brother is there too, he died of bone cancer, and was the same, finally accepted the Lord on his death bed.

So anyway I would not let ANYTHING keep me out of church, no way!

Carolyn

Re: At church, ever have

Carolyn,Friendship Circle does that here in San Diego - http://www.friendshipcirclesd.com/ - it is one of the most amazing organizations around. In fact, my entire family leans more and more towards completely abandoning the "church" and going back to a traditional Jewish upbringing. That is one of the biggest issues I have with "the church" - perhaps it is because as Jews we number less than 1% of the world's population and have learned to stick together, but Christians tend to back bite and point fingers and get truly nasty.I think that if we can find a temple nearby, we will go back to being observant Jews, believing in Yshua in our own homes and hearts.Carolyn <charper777comcast (DOT) net> wrote:

Hello Marie,

It sounds like your heart is in the right place on this. With me and my son I got to the point where I had somebody stay with him at home, so I could go to church, in fact I do that now. At least that way I get to go and get filled with the Holy Spirit each Sunday. Can somebody stay with your four while you go? Your husband maybe?

..

Life may not be the party we asked for - but while we're here, let's dance!

Looking for earth-friendly autos? Browse Top Cars by "Green Rating" at Autos' Green Center.

July 6, 2007

Hi Vickie,

I sure did enjoy reading your letter talking about taking your kids to church, etc. I wrote a little story about taking my grandkids to church last Sun., I sent it to my church group, maybe I will forward it to this one too, since we are on the subject of church.

My family were Lutherans, beings we are all full blooded Scandinavian, we are all Finnish, I think they are Lutherans. My mom and dad had confirmation classes, I think that is really a good idea to have an organized way of teaching the children the basic foundation of the faith.

When I was a little baby my folks attended a Four Square Gospel church, and my dad was saved there, my mom was already saved. They had me dedicated to Jesus there when I was just 2 months old, this was the very same month that Pearl Harbor was bombed. I am glad they did that because I have always felt the Lord guiding me and protecting me in my life, even when I was a wild teenager I always knew He was with me.

Two of my good friends took off for California one night, in the early 60s, and they wanted me to go to, actually I had my car. Just one little turn on I-5 and off I would have gone. But funny, I felt SOMEBODY in the back seat putting the pressure on me to go home and get my baby son and go home to my husband. I was only about 19 years old then, times were wild.

One of my friends did not come back, but was killed down there, and my other friend did come back but she has always been a fruit loop, got on drugs, etc. They both had babies at the time, I was the only one married though. The one who came back gave her two babies to her aunt to raise, didn't want anything to do with them, wanted to party.

Anyway I commend you for what you are doing in your life, working so hard to be a good mother. I praise the Lord for you!

Much love,

Carolyn in Oregon, a mom and grandma

Re: At church, ever have

Hi Carolyn,

I so totally agree with what you shared. We are a Bible believing family and definitely appreciate and revere the Word of God. My dh and myself are ministerial graduates so our children are definitely taught about the Lord. We are partners with Copeland Ministries and I make use of their prayer line for special requests and prayer needs, which helps tremdously. Plus I learn so much from their books, teaching tapes, sermons, and watching the live Internet service.

We just haven't figured out how to attend Church locally with technically 4 ASD family members. We have tried so many options and just haven't come up with anything that works yet. We can't leave our kids in order to go up to the altar for prayer and if we take them to the service with us we get almost nothing out of it because we are so busy dealing with them and making sure they are semi quiet, etc. It is just so stressful that it doesn't seem worth the effort most of the time, but we haven't given up completely. We have been discussing it again now that my dh is not working Sundays anymore. But we will have to wait and see how things turn out. So far no new ideas have come up.

Marie

www.freedom4familie s.com

..

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July 6, 2007

Carolyn, I appreciate your concern, however, as I previously stated, I went to church to teach my children about fellowship and about God - the fellowship never happened, rather we were shunned by people around us and were constantly made to feel bad because we have autistic kids and because I am not a "cookie cutter" baptist. I do not need these kinds of things in my life - and in the bible it says clearly where 3 or 4 are gathered in my name there I am also - so being involved in a situation that causes pain is NOT necessary to be a "Christian". I have found the Jewish faith to be much more accomodating and loving and choose to surround myself with positive people like this. Carolyn <charper777@...> wrote: Hi Jenn, I just wrote to you, but will jump in again. You say you chose not to go to church because you have had some bad experiences there. I think this is a shame, because I would think you would be going to church to find God there. This is what I do, I go to church, I worship God, and listen to the sermon, and then go up for prayer. I do say hello to people, but then I go home. I am done. Once a long time ago I was talking to my alcoholic brother on the phone. I was always trying to get him to go to church to find Jesus, and get

delivered of his alcoholism, and he told me one time that he would go to church, but church was full of hypocrites. I just sat there for a minute, didn't know what to say, finally spoke up and said but I GO THERE, and I am not a hypocrite. Seems to me this is the devil's trick to keep people out of church, and it has worked for thousands of years now. Sigh. Anyway his alcoholism finally led him to liver failure, he had cirrhosis very badly and was going down hill and had to move from his little farm to our elderly mom's, so he could get medical help. And he didn't even have a doctor, so I had to take him to mine, it was a miracle they could get him in, and the doctor said, "Sir you need a new liver, and you are not a likely candidate for a transplant." He just sat there in my son's wheelchair I had barrowed to roll him down there, could not walk his liver was so swollen, and he said, "Well then I need to sue the beer company for making that beer," and I don't think he was kidding either! The doc prescribed oxycodon for his pain, and I took him over to Senior Services where he got a med card from Medicaid, so he could get the help he needed, as he was soon to go to the hospital, back and forth for a few months. I kept trying to talk to him about Jesus, told him he had to listen to me because he was going to be seeing Him soon, and had to be right with Him first! But he would always get mad at me so I had to quit. Then he went to a nursing home, but he could not stand it there, was only there one night, and then back to ER, we were all stressed out. My mom was over 85 years old, his enabler for years. That day he was at ER I called my pastor, it was Sunday morning, and my pastor said he would come down. And he went right in there and led my brother to the Lord, led the sinner's prayer, and my brother followed along repeating it. He did get stuck when he was supposed to confess he was a sinner, but finally he said it. And when he was done he asked the pastor if he had just had the "last rites," and we all laughed because our church doesn't do that, that is Catholics. Well anyway after that my brother was "saved, born again" as the Bible calls it, after he accepted Jesus into his heart as his Savior. He never left the hospital after that, as he declined. They had him on morphine and most of the time he was out, but I went to him and prayed with him, told him I loved him, and read Scripture to Him, mostly the Psalms, "As I walk through the valley of the shadow of death I will fear now evil, He is with me, His rod and His staff will comfort me....." I had never been so close to my brother, he was a really sweet man in many ways, but was just a sinner, and an alcoholic, who thought "the church" was the problem, and really his sin was the problem. Anyway he is with Jesus now, and I know that one day I will see him. My oldest brother is there too, he died of bone

cancer, and was the same, finally accepted the Lord on his death bed. So anyway I would not let ANYTHING keep me out of church, no way! Carolyn Re: At church, ever have Carolyn,Friendship Circle does that here in San Diego - http://www.friendshipcirclesd.com/ - it is one of the most amazing organizations around. In fact, my entire family leans more and more towards completely abandoning the "church" and going back to a traditional Jewish upbringing. That is one of the biggest issues I have with "the church" - perhaps it is because as Jews we number less than 1% of the world's population and have learned to stick together, but Christians tend to back bite and point fingers and get truly nasty.I think that if we can find a temple nearby, we will go back to being observant Jews, believing in Yshua in our own homes and hearts.Carolyn <charper777comcast (DOT) net> wrote: Hello Marie, It sounds like your heart is in the right place on this. With me and my son I got to the point where I had somebody stay with him at home, so I could go to church, in fact I do that now. At least that way I get to go and get filled with the Holy Spirit each Sunday. Can somebody stay with your four while you go? Your husband maybe? . Life may not be the party we asked for - but while we're here, let's dance! Looking for earth-friendly autos? Browse Top Cars by "Green Rating" at Autos' Green Center. Life may not be the party we asked for - but while we're here, let's dance!

Boardwalk for $500? In 2007? Ha! Play Monopoly Here and Now (it's updated for today's economy) at Games.

July 6, 2007

Carolyn, I am a Messianic Jew. My family is of Jewish faith traditionally, however, my mother is not, and I grew up in the Methodist church. There is nothing in contradiction in this statement. I am very pleased to hear that you have had such a great experience, there are some things in life that don't work the same way for everyone. Carolyn <charper777@...> wrote: Hello again Jenn, You say you have come from a large variety of churches and denominations, I thought you said you were Jewish. I know what you saying about a lot of people is true, being Christian or not, people are just in general not very nice to one another, so it is one thing we definitely all can work on. I am sorry you have had bad experiences at the churches you have gone to. I have gone to church now for 33 years and have managed to stay clear of any problems, learned early on it was not Scriptural to back bite, and gossip, and tear down others, etc. so simply do not do it. I belong to another group however, and

there are a lot of pastors there, it is my denomination, and have been shocked to learn how mean people are to these pastors! There have been lots of big church fights, splits, on and on. I had no idea at all, but have to admit it makes sense, is all human nature after all. This is why we are told by God in His Word to yield to His Spirit, the Holy Spirit, and to not commit the lusts of the flesh. This is our assignment, and it can be done. I have enjoyed your insights, and understand where you are coming from, but do not yield to that way myself, and I know many others don't either, but then they are NOT reported on on CNN, etc. :: 00 ((( Carolyn Re: Re: At church, ever have Because I was brought up "in the church" I feel that I have a right and a reason to say this as a generality and coming from a background of a large variety of churches and denominations. It was not meant to be directed at anyone, simply stating my

experience.If you took this personally, please understand that it was not meant as such, simply a statement of my experience within spiritual communities.Jeff and Jodi <jjkgardeniersbcglobal (DOT) net> wrote: Forgive me for saying that you where finger pointing and being nasty. That was very childish of me and I apologize. I was feeling defensive but no excuse for rude behavior. Jodi> >> > Carolyn,> > > > Friendship Circle does that here in San Diego - > http://www.friendshipcirclesd.com/ - it is one of the most amazing > organizations around. In fact, my entire family leans more and more > towards completely abandoning the "church" and going back to a > traditional Jewish upbringing. That is one of the biggest issues I > have with "the church" - perhaps it is because as Jews we number > less than 1% of the world's population and have learned to stick > together, but Christians tend to back bite and point fingers and get > truly nasty.> Life may not be the party we asked for - but while we're here, let's dance! Building a website is a piece of cake. Small Business gives you all the tools to get online. Life may not be the party we asked for - but while we're here, let's dance!

oneSearch: Finally, mobile search that gives answers, not web links.

July 8, 2007

I apologize. I wasn't clear on what happened just Jen's view on

Christians and how they tend to be. Perhaps I would have taken it

different if it was worded as " Some Christians " instead of implied

to Christians in general. I would not generalize people as finger

pointing, nasty and I forget the other word unless I was bitter

towards them. That's just me. Jodi

- In Autism and Aspergers Treatment , sunrose101@... wrote:

>

> I didn't find any bitterness in Jen's post. Just statements of

what

> happened.

>

> Francine

>

> In a message dated 7/6/2007 8:20:54 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time,

> jjkgardenier@... writes:

>

> Dear Jen. I just hope you find peace about this one day and find a

> good group of people that will be like a good family for you. I'm

> sorry about the experiences you have been through that brought

you

> to this bitterness towards the church. You must have been through

> alot. Jodi

>

> > > >

> > > > Carolyn,

> > > >

> > > > Friendship Circle does that here in San Diego -

> > > _http://www.friendshhttp://www.http_

(http://www.friendshipcirclesd.com/)

> - it is one of the most

> amazing

> > > organizations around. In fact, my entire family leans more

and

> > more

> > > towards completely abandoning the " church " and going back to

a

> > > traditional Jewish upbringing. That is one of the biggest

> issues

> > I

> > > have with " the church " - perhaps it is because as Jews we

> number

> > > less than 1% of the world's population and have learned to

> stick

> > > together, but Christians tend to back bite and point fingers

> and

> > get

> > > truly nasty.

> > >

> >

> > Life may not be the party we asked for - but while we're here,

> let's dance!

> >

> > ------------ ---- ----

> > Building a website is a piece of cake.

> > Small Business gives you all the tools to get online.

> >

>

> ************************************** See what's free at

http://www.aol.com.

>

July 8, 2007

Oh the other was point fingers. I'm afraid that I assumed that

Christians treated her in this way and that is what turned her away

from going to church. But I am wrong to assume what anyone's

feelings are. I have learned much through this thread. Mostly that

just because someone describes a group of people negativly doesn't

necessarily mean it reflects their feelings towards them. Again Jen

I am sorry for assuming you was bitter by just my interpretation of

your words. That was wrong.

> > I didn't find any bitterness in Jen's post. Just statements of

> what

> > happened.

> >

> > Francine

> >

> > In a message dated 7/6/2007 8:20:54 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time,

> > jjkgardenier@ writes:

> >

> > Dear Jen. I just hope you find peace about this one day and find

a

> > good group of people that will be like a good family for you.

I'm

> > sorry about the experiences you have been through that brought

> you

> > to this bitterness towards the church. You must have been

through

> > alot. Jodi

> >

> > > > >

> > > > > Carolyn,

> > > > >

> > > > > Friendship Circle does that here in San Diego -

> > > > _http://www.friendshhttp://www.http_

> (http://www.friendshipcirclesd.com/)

> > - it is one of the most

> > amazing

> > > > organizations around. In fact, my entire family leans more

> and

> > > more

> > > > towards completely abandoning the " church " and going back

to

> a

> > > > traditional Jewish upbringing. That is one of the biggest

> > issues

> > > I

> > > > have with " the church " - perhaps it is because as Jews we

> > number

> > > > less than 1% of the world's population and have learned to

> > stick

> > > > together, but Christians tend to back bite and point

fingers

> > and

> > > get

> > > > truly nasty.

> > > >

> > >

> > > Life may not be the party we asked for - but while we're

here,

> > let's dance!

> > >

> > > ------------ ---- ----

> > > Building a website is a piece of cake.

> > > Small Business gives you all the tools to get online.

> > >

> >

> > ************************************** See what's free at

> http://www.aol.com.

> >

>

July 8, 2007

I just read this Jen and am glad to hear that you have found a group

that is accomidating and loving. That is wonderful! I have never

personally met a Jew, one of God's chosen people, I would enjoy the

privledge. I have heard of bad Baptist churches but am blessed to be

a part of a very loving and accomodating Baptist church. Of course

there are always a few bad apples in a family and we do have a few.

I hope I haven't ruined any chances of us being friends. I

feel that I have put you on the defensive and that wasn't my

intention. Jodi

I have found the Jewish faith to be much more accomodating and

loving and choose to surround myself with positive people like this.

>

July 8, 2007

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

MY THOUGHT ALSO IS GO WHERE YOU ARE COMFORTABLE WITH (JEWISH,METHODIST ,LUTERON,PENTICOSLTE,CATHOLIC,BAPTIST ETC.........) WHAT EVER YOU FEEL MORE AT HOME WITH MORE WELCOMING STAY WITH IT SEE HOW IT GOES.YOUR KIDS WITH THE AUTISM I KNOW IS HARD TO DEAL WITH IN CHURCH BELIEVE ME I KNOWYOUR CHURCH SHOULD WELCOME YOU AND TRY TO UNDERSTAND MORE ABOUT THE BEHAVIORS /SENSORY ISSUES AND SO FORTH IN KIDS WITH ASD. THE CHURCH WELCOMES YOU INTO THE FOLD IT SHOULD NOT PUSH YOU AWAY .YOU CHOSE THEM NOT THEY YOU

I HOPE THIS CHURCH WORKS FOR YOU IF NOT TRY AND TRY AGAIN AND IF NOT CREATE YOUR OWN NON DENOMINATIONAL CHURCH .AND MEET IN A PICNIC GROVE DURING THE SUMMER AND SOMEONES HOUSE OR HELL EVEN AT A RESTAURANT DURING THE WINTER .

I HOPE YOU HAVE GOOD TIMES WITH YOUR CHURCH .AND YOU DO THE MOST IMPORTANT THING WITH YOUR KIDS AND THAT IS TO SHARE IN GODS LOVE AND FELLOWSHIP

I HOPE THIS MADE SENCE I AM UP WAY PASSED ME BEDTIME

VICKIE

Re: Re: At church, ever have

Jodi,

I wouldn't say that I am bitter towards the church, I have simply come to a place of understanding that a church community is not where we "belong". There has been a long history of unpleasantness that my husband (who is Southern Baptist) and I have dealt with, the least of which was our church's attitude and behavior towards our children. We were members of the same local church for almost five years, hoping it would get better, which it never did.

I was hurt, but don't think that I am bitter. I have come to a place of acceptance about it, and a realization that returning to my family's faith is the most positive thing that I can do for my family.

Jeff and Jodi <jjkgardenier@ sbcglobal. net> wrote:

Dear Jen. I just hope you find peace about this one day and find a good group of people that will be like a good family for you. I'm sorry about the experiences you have been through that brought you to this bitterness towards the church. You must have been through alot. Jodi> > >> > > Carolyn,> > > > > >

Friendship Circle does that here in San Diego - > > http://www.friendsh ipcirclesd. com/ - it is one of the most amazing > > organizations around. In fact, my entire family leans more and > more > > towards completely abandoning the "church" and going back to a > > traditional Jewish upbringing. That is one of the biggest issues > I > > have with "the church" - perhaps it is because as Jews we number > > less than 1% of the world's population and have learned to stick > > together, but Christians tend to back bite and point fingers and > get > > truly nasty.> >> > > > > > > Life may not be the party we asked for - but while we're here, let's dance!> > > > ------------ --------- ---------

---> Building a website is a piece of cake. > Small Business gives you all the tools to get online.>

Life may not be the party we asked for - but while we're here, let's dance!

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July 8, 2007

Hi again ,

I am sorry there were people at the church you went to who made you feel bad, you say because you have autistic kids? That is just terrible. I have no idea why they would ever do that, since there are so many disabled children, and adults, etc. everywhere. In fact pretty much every one of us are disabled in one way or other, the way I look at it this is what makes us all human.

Was this the prevailing view of the whole church, or just a few? If it was one or two I would talk to the pastor about them if this was happening, because this simply is not right and goes against what Christians generally believe and live.

Anyway I apologize for their bad behavior, and hope you do not think we are all like that now. It is a shame, and they should be ashamed.

Carolyn

Re: At church, ever have

Carolyn,

I appreciate your concern, however, as I previously stated, I went to church to teach my children about fellowship and about God - the fellowship never happened, rather we were shunned by people around us and were constantly made to feel bad because we have autistic kids and because I am not a "cookie cutter" baptist.

I do not need these kinds of things in my life - and in the bible it says clearly where 3 or 4 are gathered in my name there I am also - so being involved in a situation that causes pain is NOT necessary to be a "Christian". I have found the Jewish faith to be much more accomodating and loving and choose to surround myself with positive people like this.

Carolyn <charper777comcast (DOT) net> wrote:

Hi Jenn, I just wrote to you, but will jump in again. You say you chose not to go to church because you have had some bad experiences there. I think this is a shame, because I would think you would be going to church to find God there. This is what I do, I go to church, I worship God, and listen to the sermon, and then go up for prayer. I do say hello to people, but then I go home. I am done.

..

July 10, 2007

God is with us all the time, anywhere and everywhere.

In a message dated 7/6/2007 2:43:59 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, charper777@... writes: