At church, ever have

[Guest guest]

people sitting close to you get up and move? Makes you feel pretty bad.

Happened to us this weekend.

[Guest guest]

How very sad. I have never had anyone move. With only one child I am

able to remove from the santuary when he gets out of control.

It would be difficult to do with more then one child. Gratefully our

church is very child friendly. We have an abundance of children.

Many of them are brought in the church van without parents attending.

We love and embrace the children. Especially the more troubled ones.

Jodi

>

> people sitting close to you get up and move? Makes you feel pretty

bad.

> Happened to us this weekend.

>

[Guest guest]

How very sad. I have never had anyone move. With only one child I am

able to remove from the santuary when he gets out of control.

It would be difficult to do with more then one child. Gratefully our

church is very child friendly. We have an abundance of children.

Many of them are brought in the church van without parents attending.

We love and embrace the children. Especially the more troubled ones.

Jodi

>

> people sitting close to you get up and move? Makes you feel pretty

bad.

> Happened to us this weekend.

>

[Guest guest]

I know where you are coming from. We gave up on Church years ago. We have had people move to new seats and have been left sitting alone a lot. It was so frustrating sitting upstairs trying to hear our minister preach and hearing our ds screaming through the closed doors from his Sunday School room downstairs.

There weren't enough volunteers to have a 1 on 1 person with him and because it was a small church both my twins with ASD were in the same classroom. Finally my dd with mild Aspergers ended up helping out in their class to keep them calmer but that was hard for her too. So we gave up and tried attending separately with my hubby and me rotating weeks, but the boys didn't understand why they weren't allowed to go. The sad part was both my boys loved church especially the music

[Guest guest]

I know where you are coming from. We gave up on Church years ago. We have had people move to new seats and have been left sitting alone a lot. It was so frustrating sitting upstairs trying to hear our minister preach and hearing our ds screaming through the closed doors from his Sunday School room downstairs.

There weren't enough volunteers to have a 1 on 1 person with him and because it was a small church both my twins with ASD were in the same classroom. Finally my dd with mild Aspergers ended up helping out in their class to keep them calmer but that was hard for her too. So we gave up and tried attending separately with my hubby and me rotating weeks, but the boys didn't understand why they weren't allowed to go. The sad part was both my boys loved church especially the music

[Guest guest]

I have not had people move before, the people at my church have known my son since he was an infant. It is a smaller church. Some of the older folks think he just needs discipline, but most understand. I just do prayer requests in such a way as to make them understand and even give praises in church on my sons behave so that they can see and hear that he is making progress. I am just worried about when he is too old to go to childrens church. He will not be able to handle the standard service. That is going to be an issue for us. People always stare at us at resturants, movies, etc. I once had a lady follow me out of the theater when I took him out of a movie. He was screaming like I was killing him and she said she was calling the police. I had simply picked him up and carried him out. He was like board so I carried him just like that. I told her to please call the

police, I would be waiting in the silver ford mini van outside until my husband and other child finished the movie. I often hear people say, some children need to be punished and have even had parents point to him and say things like, if you acted like that I would spank you. It is hard. Mine is 7 will be 8 in December. You just have to get tough skin. My daughter who is 9 and gifted will often turn to people and say, he is really sweet he is just autistic. People often do not believe he is autistic because he is so highly intelligent and communicates really well. He is even very very social. I have people often say, are you sure he is autistic? Geesh......thats nice of you to say. We have taken him to over 10 drs and they all agree. Hmmmm...........makes you wonder if they are ALL wrong, huh?!! Anyway, good luck with the church issue, it is just

the tip! Beth Pennington Mother-Wife-Teacher-Grant Writer Need I say more!

Need a vacation? Get great deals to amazing places on Travel.

[Guest guest]

I have had a woman tell my mom when the kids were younger that they were

'distracting' her during church fidgeting (she 's a retired school teacher).

Now that she knows their diagnosis she is so understanding and 'admires' me

for all that I put up with...and always asks about 'the boys'... sorry you

had to have that happen..

Toni

At church, ever have

> people sitting close to you get up and move? Makes you feel pretty bad.

> Happened to us this weekend.

>

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

rose6072004 wrote:

>

>

> people sitting close to you get up and move? Makes you feel pretty

> bad. Happened to us this weekend.

I have to say this hasn't happened to us ever. We're Presbyterian,

which means we sit in the same seats every worship service (this may be

scriptural, I'm not sure... ); everyone knows this, so the only ones

who sit by us want to be there. Also, most people in our church know

Louie and know he's autistic, so it comes as no surprise to anyone

there. In fact, our pastor (with his permission) used Louie's

prosopagnosia and autism as a sermon illustration about a month ago.

I think what did it was that we went on a massive education campaign,

although it just looked like " conversations about our kids " with other

parents there. And people just got used to him.

Thing is, you not only have to have a rhinocerous skin but also a duck's

back that lets things just roll off when you're the parent of one of our

guys. Don't let stuff like this bother you, really. It just shows

their lack of tolerance, and that's not a very Christian attitude ( " As

you do it unto the least of these " & etc.).

Annie, who loves ya annie@...

--

You know how they say we only use 10 percent of our brains? I think we

only use 10 percent of our hearts. -- Owen in Wedding Crashers

[Guest guest]

Only once our pastor said remeber that Jesus may knock in different

ways and we must accpet all of gods children.

>

> people sitting close to you get up and move? Makes you feel pretty

bad.

> Happened to us this weekend.

>

[Guest guest]

I have had that happen to me a loooong time ago but it had nothing to

do with autism, just a toddler that couldn't keep quiet. I felt bad at

the time. Shortly after, our church dedicated a certain section of

seats for parents with children. It was so much better because anyone

sitting around me also had a kid with ants in his pants or a church

member that knows full well what to expect by sitting there.

I am at a different church now but don't take my little ones in with

me. My youngest two love to go to Children's church and I find it is a

great opportunity to has social contact with typical kids. My 8 year

old autistic son however I never take to church with me. He would be

so distracting if I were to have him in the service even I would not be

able to get anything out of it. I cannot take him to Children's Church

because of his diet and addiction to gluten. A few members that are

ABA therapists have offered to be a shadow in Childen's church but I

feel taking him is more of a hassle than it's worth. Our church has 3

weekend services so until recently, we alteranted services. Recently

we started going together while our teens stay home to watch the little

ones and they go at a different time.

>

> people sitting close to you get up and move? Makes you feel pretty

bad.

> Happened to us this weekend.

>

[Guest guest]

Hello Beth,

I can relate to people wanting to call the police because they think you are abusing your child. My husband and I had this happen one time we were on a picnic. Our son, Marty, used to like to roll around on the ground or black top parking lot, and wouldn't let us pick him up or get him into the car, etc.

Well this was going on one day, we were just trying to get him into the car so we could go home, and these two women came over with their faces all puckered up, and said they were going to call the police. I can't remember what we told them, probably something smart alecky. It is so stressful anyway, and then this happens. People have Nooooooooo idea what we go through!

Over the years, my boy is almost 43 years old now, I have had way too many opinions about what I should do, and should not do, people can be real busy bodies at times. I don't think I had any that really understood what I was going through trying to manage this boy! Even when he went to a special ed school they didn't understand the problem, they thought I was just a bad mother.

Sigh.

His teenage years were awful, he started having serious melt downs with lots of anger, screaming, he did not talk, just screamed and bit his upper arm. They had him mainstreamed in public school then, it did not work out. His upper arm was all black and blue from him biting it, his only form of communication.

All I ever did was try to keep things stable, had three other kids and a husband. I figured that was my job, deal with the crisis until things settled down, and they always did, but now that I think about it I think it has really done a number on me. These days I find myself rather distracted, kind of anxious inside, maybe it is PTS, post traumatic shock syndrome?

Hmmm.

Carolyn

Re:At church, ever have

I have not had people move before, the people at my church have known my son since he was an infant. It is a smaller church.

Some of the older folks think he just needs discipline, but most understand. I just do prayer requests in such a way as to make them understand and even give praises in church on my sons behave so that they can see and hear that he is making progress. I am just worried about when he is too old to go to childrens church. He will not be able to handle the standard service. That is going to be an issue for us.

People always stare at us at resturants, movies, etc.

I once had a lady follow me out of the theater when I took him out of a movie. He was screaming like I was killing him and she said she was calling the police. I had simply picked him up and carried him out. He was like board so I carried him just like that.

I told her to please call the police, I would be waiting in the silver ford mini van outside until my husband and other child finished the movie.

I often hear people say, some children need to be punished and have even had parents point to him and say things like, if you acted like that I would spank you.

It is hard. Mine is 7 will be 8 in December. You just have to get tough skin. My daughter who is 9 and gifted will often turn to people and say, he is really sweet he is just autistic.

People often do not believe he is autistic because he is so highly intelligent and communicates really well. He is even very very social. I have people often say, are you sure he is autistic? Geesh......thats nice of you to say. We have taken him to over 10 drs and they all agree. Hmmmm...........makes you wonder if they are ALL wrong, huh?!!

Anyway, good luck with the church issue, it is just the tip!

Beth Pennington Mother-Wife-Teacher-Grant Writer Need I say more!

Need a vacation? Get great deals to amazing places on Travel.

[Guest guest]

Speaking about church, we once had our pastor ask us to take our son out! It was a small independent church held in a storefront at the time, so there were no places to put your kids, etc. The cars were just outside so if he got too fidgety one of us could take him to the car and just sit there with him.

Well my tolerance for him was way up there, he didn't bother me all that much. I would have him sit right beside me and just hold onto him so he couldn't get away, and he would wiggle and fidget with me, but he didn't talk or make noise. Back then he wore a football helmet all the time because he had so many seizures.

Well the pastor couldn't take it, and said out loud in a very perturbed voice, "If you cannot handle your son, take him out!" So we ALL left, my husband, me, my mom, my disruptive son, two other sons, and my little daughter, only three. And we never went back.

In fact my husband and my oldest son backslide from that moment on, they never went back, my husband died of alcoholism and our son is well on his way to doing the same thing.

I don't blame the pastor, he is dead now too, just thinking about the past I guess. It was the way he said it that hurt us, like we were doing something wrong just bringing him there.

But I will say another time he prayed for him and he was healed for three years, no seizures, no meds, his behavior was all calm and normal, and he started talking again. Guess he got fidgety after that though.

After that we found another church, sometimes we took him, sometimes not. When he got bigger we split shifts and my other son, who had just learned to drive, took his little sister, went and picked up his grandma and they went. And then the brother stayed with his wild brother, and I went for evening services.

There is always a way!

Carolyn

Re: At church, ever have

How very sad. I have never had anyone move. With only one child I am able to remove from the santuary when he gets out of control. It would be difficult to do with more then one child. Gratefully our church is very child friendly. We have an abundance of children. Many of them are brought in the church van without parents attending. We love and embrace the children. Especially the more troubled ones. Jodi>> people sitting close to you get up and move? Makes you feel pretty bad.> Happened to us this weekend.>

[Guest guest]

Hi Marie,

I am so sorry you cannot go to church, but know how hard it is with the problems you have. I get to go now because I have somebody to stay at home with my son. We used to take him to evening services and plan to start going again now it is summer time. I think going to church is very important because when two or three gather together in His name, then Jesus is there among them, He really is there, and I do believe we need His personal touch, as well as our children do.

Of course He is everywhere,at all times, but there is such a special blessing we will get when we make the effort to obey His word, which says to forsake not the assembling of yourselves together, and as you see the day approaching all the more. This means the day when Jesus is to return. Also at church you can go up to the altar for special prayer for strength, etc., I do this quite a lot myself.

I sure do hope you can find a way to go back, as well as your other family members do. I was telling my daughter just the other day that I want to start picking up the three grandkids every Sun. morning and taking them to church. Even if she does not want to go I want to take them. We are living in perilous times when all sorts of terrible things are bombarding their minds and hearts, and they need to be learning the Word for their own protection.

I hope you can find a way to go sis, let us know.

Much love,

Carolyn

Re: At church, ever have

I know where you are coming from. We gave up on Church years ago. We have had people move to new seats and have been left sitting alone a lot. It was so frustrating sitting upstairs trying to hear our minister preach and hearing our ds screaming through the closed doors from his Sunday School room downstairs.

There weren't enough volunteers to have a 1 on 1 person with him and because it was a small church both my twins with ASD were in the same classroom. Finally my dd with mild Aspergers ended up helping out in their class to keep them calmer but that was hard for her too. So we gave up and tried attending separately with my hubby and me rotating weeks, but the boys didn't understand why they weren't allowed to go. The sad part was both my boys loved church especially the music

[Guest guest]

Amen Carolyn. I believe that the most important things I can

personally do for my son is keep my faith strong and show him the

way, the truth and the light. All the other stuff I teach him is

just to make his life better here on earth and so that he might make

a difference.

I have become fearful of sharing my faith on message boards and I

will be careful. But God wants for us to be courageous.

Jodi

>

> Hi Marie,

>

> I am so sorry you cannot go to church, but know how hard it is

with the problems you have. I get to go now because I have somebody

to stay at home with my son. We used to take him to evening services

and plan to start going again now it is summer time. I think going

to church is very important because when two or three gather

together in His name, then Jesus is there among them, He really is

there, and I do believe we need His personal touch, as well as our

children do.

>

> Of course He is everywhere,at all times, but there is such a

special blessing we will get when we make the effort to obey His

word, which says to forsake not the assembling of yourselves

together, and as you see the day approaching all the more. This

means the day when Jesus is to return. Also at church you can go up

to the altar for special prayer for strength, etc., I do this quite

a lot myself.

>

> I sure do hope you can find a way to go back, as well as your

other family members do. I was telling my daughter just the other

day that I want to start picking up the three grandkids every Sun.

morning and taking them to church. Even if she does not want to go I

want to take them. We are living in perilous times when all sorts of

terrible things are bombarding their minds and hearts, and they need

to be learning the Word for their own protection.

>

> I hope you can find a way to go sis, let us know.

> Much love,

> Carolyn

>

[Guest guest]

Hi Carolyn,

I so totally agree with what you shared. We are a Bible believing family and definitely appreciate and revere the Word of God. My dh and myself are ministerial graduates so our children are definitely taught about the Lord. We are partners with Copeland Ministries and I make use of their prayer line for special requests and prayer needs, which helps tremdously. Plus I learn so much from their books, teaching tapes, sermons, and watching the live Internet service.

We just haven't figured out how to attend Church locally with technically 4 ASD family members. We have tried so many options and just haven't come up with anything that works yet. We can't leave our kids in order to go up to the altar for prayer and if we take them to the service with us we get almost nothing out of it because we are so busy dealing with them and making sure they are semi quiet, etc. It is just so stressful that it doesn't seem worth the effort most of the time, but we haven't given up completely. We have been discussing it again now that my dh is not working Sundays anymore. But we will have to wait and see how things turn out. So far no new ideas have come up.

Marie

www.freedom4families.com

Re: At church, ever have

I know where you are coming from. We gave up on Church years ago. We have had people move to new seats and have been left sitting alone a lot. It was so frustrating sitting upstairs trying to hear our minister preach and hearing our ds screaming through the closed doors from his Sunday School room downstairs.

There weren't enough volunteers to have a 1 on 1 person with him and because it was a small church both my twins with ASD were in the same classroom. Finally my dd with mild Aspergers ended up helping out in their class to keep them calmer but that was hard for her too. So we gave up and tried attending separately with my hubby and me rotating weeks, but the boys didn't understand why they weren't allowed to go. The sad part was both my boys loved church especially the music

[Guest guest]

Hi Jodi,

The folks here have been real nice and accepting with us who want to share our faith from time to time, and I appreciate that a lot because like you say in many of these groups it is not possible. I think as long as we share our faith kindly and lovingly, and as it applies to our own lives, and our own trials, then it is o.k. We are not trying to force others to agree with us but are only sharing what has worked for us in our situation.

I know this is true with me, I am sure I could never been able to withstand all I have gone through with me autistic, epileptic, and retarded son all these years without the grace of God giving me the strength to do it.

Carolyn

Re: At church, ever have

Amen Carolyn. I believe that the most important things I can personally do for my son is keep my faith strong and show him the way, the truth and the light. All the other stuff I teach him is just to make his life better here on earth and so that he might make a difference. I have become fearful of sharing my faith on message boards and I will be careful. But God wants for us to be courageous.Jodi>> Hi Marie,> > I am so sorry you cannot go to church, but know how hard it is with the problems you have. I get to go now because I have somebody to stay at home with my son. We used to take him to evening services and plan to start going again now it is summer time. I think going to church is very important because when two or three gather together in His name, then Jesus is there among them, He really is there, and I do believe we need His personal touch, as well as our children do.> > Of course He is everywhere,at all times, but there is such a special blessing we will get when we make the effort to obey His word, which says to forsake not the assembling of yourselves together, and as you see the day approaching all the more. This means the day when Jesus is to return. Also at church you can go up to the altar for special prayer for strength, etc., I do this quite a lot myself.> > I sure do hope you can find a way to go back, as well as your other family members do. I was telling my daughter just the other day that I want to start picking up the three grandkids every Sun. morning and taking them to church. Even if she does not want to go I want to take them. We are living in perilous times when all sorts of terrible things are bombarding their minds and hearts, and they need to be learning the Word for their own protection.> > I hope you can find a way to go sis, let us know.> Much love,> Carolyn>

[Guest guest]

Hello Marie,

It sounds like your heart is in the right place on this. With me and my son I got to the point where I had somebody stay with him at home, so I could go to church, in fact I do that now. At least that way I get to go and get filled with the Holy Spirit each Sunday. Can somebody stay with your four while you go? Your husband maybe?

I don't remember how old your children are, four with problems sure does sound like a lot to deal with. Maybe you could start your own class or something.

Actually, I have had a burden for a long time for parents like us with disabled children, and have wanted to create a special service for all of together, where none of us would get upset about the children's behavior, and still be able to worship, listen to the Word, and go up for prayer. I would have other parents would cover for us right there in the service so we could do that.

Because I have struggled with this issue all these years and I know there must be many more like me. And I do miss the socialization I used to have with other parents when my son used to go to school. Since he has not gone we have been pretty isolated.

I should push ahead and ask my pastor what he thinks about this idea, as he is always wanting new people to come to church. I think if we had a disabled person service, and publicized it to the community, lots of new people would come.

Just think, a service where our kids are welcomed with open arms! Wouldn't that be wonderful though!

Carolyn

Re: At church, ever have

Hi Carolyn,

I so totally agree with what you shared. We are a Bible believing family and definitely appreciate and revere the Word of God. My dh and myself are ministerial graduates so our children are definitely taught about the Lord. We are partners with Copeland Ministries and I make use of their prayer line for special requests and prayer needs, which helps tremdously. Plus I learn so much from their books, teaching tapes, sermons, and watching the live Internet service.

We just haven't figured out how to attend Church locally with technically 4 ASD family members. We have tried so many options and just haven't come up with anything that works yet. We can't leave our kids in order to go up to the altar for prayer and if we take them to the service with us we get almost nothing out of it because we are so busy dealing with them and making sure they are semi quiet, etc. It is just so stressful that it doesn't seem worth the effort most of the time, but we haven't given up completely. We have been discussing it again now that my dh is not working Sundays anymore. But we will have to wait and see how things turn out. So far no new ideas have come up.

Marie

www.freedom4families.com

..

[Guest guest]

Carolyn,Friendship Circle does that here in San Diego - http://www.friendshipcirclesd.com/ - it is one of the most amazing organizations around. In fact, my entire family leans more and more towards completely abandoning the "church" and going back to a traditional Jewish upbringing. That is one of the biggest issues I have with "the church" - perhaps it is because as Jews we number less than 1% of the world's population and have learned to stick together, but Christians tend to back bite and point fingers and get truly nasty.I think that if we can find a temple nearby, we will go back to being observant Jews, believing in Yshua in our own homes and hearts.Carolyn <charper777@...> wrote: Hello Marie, It sounds like your heart is in the right place on this. With me and my son I got to the point where I had somebody stay with him at home, so I could go to church, in fact I do that now. At least that way I get to go and get filled with the Holy Spirit each Sunday. Can somebody stay with your four while you go? Your husband maybe? I don't remember how old your children are, four with problems sure does sound like a lot to deal with.

Maybe you could start your own class or something. Actually, I have had a burden for a long time for parents like us with disabled children, and have wanted to create a special service for all of together, where none of us would get upset about the children's behavior, and still be able to worship, listen to the Word, and go up for prayer. I would have other parents would cover for us right there in the service so we could do that. Because I have struggled with this issue all these years and I know there must be many more like me. And I do miss the socialization I used to have with other parents when my son used to go to school. Since he has not gone we have been pretty isolated.

I should push ahead and ask my pastor what he thinks about this idea, as he is always wanting new people to come to church. I think if we had a disabled person service, and publicized it to the community, lots of new people would come. Just think, a service where our kids are welcomed with open arms! Wouldn't that be wonderful though! Carolyn Re: At church, ever have Hi Carolyn, I so totally agree with what you shared. We are a Bible believing family and definitely appreciate and revere the Word of God. My dh and myself are ministerial graduates so our children are definitely taught about the Lord. We are partners with Copeland Ministries and

I make use of their prayer line for special requests and prayer needs, which helps tremdously. Plus I learn so much from their books, teaching tapes, sermons, and watching the live Internet service. We just haven't figured out how to attend Church locally with technically 4 ASD family members. We have tried so many options and just haven't come up with anything that works yet. We can't leave our kids in order to go up to the altar for prayer and if we take them to the service with us we get almost nothing out of it because we are so busy dealing with them and making sure they are semi quiet, etc. It is just so stressful that it doesn't seem worth the effort most of the time, but we haven't given up completely. We have been discussing it again now that my dh is not working Sundays anymore. But we will have to wait and see how things turn out. So far no new ideas have come up. Marie www.freedom4families.com . Life may not be the party we asked for - but while we're here, let's dance!

Get your own web address. Have a HUGE year through Small Business.

[Guest guest]

Thanks Carolyn

My dd is 20yrs old and my boys are 11yrs old. There was a lot more that went wrong that I didn't share with the 2nd and last church we attended.

We have tried starting our own class too and my hubby and I actually ran the entire junior church program for the whole summer in the last church. Our daughter helped with our boys. But we did it every Sunday and with no other help so by the end of summer we were worn out, and we still weren't getting to church because Junior Church ran during service time so we were ministering to others peoples kids so they could enjoy church but no one returned the favour so we were able to go like them. That can only be done for so long before you get frustrated with everything you are doing and how little you are getting in return.

Plus the pastors actually came to our home and criticized our parenting and said that our kids wouldn't be as agressive as they were if we took away all their video games etc. They had some strange beliefs about a lot of stuff like Pokemon. Then they took away our ability to minister including removing our dd from the youth worship team and said we weren't good examples because of our children and how they acted.

This was our 2nd church in a row (last one so far), where we had run into severe difficulties because of our wonderful boys so we decided enough was enough and we couldn't handle any more of this.

I do agree that a service where our kids are welcomed with open arms would be wonderful Carolyn, and as of right now I have yet to see one that was even tolerable. But I may be surprised yet.

Marie

www.freedom4families.com

Re: At church, ever have

Hi Carolyn,

I so totally agree with what you shared. We are a Bible believing family and definitely appreciate and revere the Word of God. My dh and myself are ministerial graduates so our children are definitely taught about the Lord. We are partners with Copeland Ministries and I make use of their prayer line for special requests and prayer needs, which helps tremdously. Plus I learn so much from their books, teaching tapes, sermons, and watching the live Internet service.

We just haven't figured out how to attend Church locally with technically 4 ASD family members. We have tried so many options and just haven't come up with anything that works yet. We can't leave our kids in order to go up to the altar for prayer and if we take them to the service with us we get almost nothing out of it because we are so busy dealing with them and making sure they are semi quiet, etc. It is just so stressful that it doesn't seem worth the effort most of the time, but we haven't given up completely. We have been discussing it again now that my dh is not working Sundays anymore. But we will have to wait and see how things turn out. So far no new ideas have come up.

Marie

www.freedom4families.com

..

No virus found in this incoming message.Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.476 / Virus Database: 269.9.14/880 - Release Date: 29/06/2007 2:15 PM

[Guest guest]

Because I was brought up "in the church" I feel that I have a right and a reason to say this as a generality and coming from a background of a large variety of churches and denominations. It was not meant to be directed at anyone, simply stating my experience.If you took this personally, please understand that it was not meant as such, simply a statement of my experience within spiritual communities.Jeff and Jodi <jjkgardenier@...> wrote: Forgive me for

saying that you where finger pointing and being nasty. That was very childish of me and I apologize. I was feeling defensive but no excuse for rude behavior. Jodi > > > > Carolyn, > > > > Friendship Circle does that here in San Diego - > http://www.friendshipcirclesd.com/ - it is one

of the most amazing > organizations around. In fact, my entire family leans more and more > towards completely abandoning the "church" and going back to a > traditional Jewish upbringing. That is one of the biggest issues I > have with "the church" - perhaps it is because as Jews we number > less than 1% of the world's population and have learned to stick > together, but Christians tend to back bite and point fingers and get > truly nasty. > Life may not be the party we asked for - but while we're here, let's dance!

Building a website is a piece of cake. Small Business gives you all the tools to get online.

[Guest guest]

This is so good to hear. And what a sensible idea the places where you can hear.

Thanks.

Francine

In a message dated 7/1/2007 8:51:57 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, crazy_mommy_of_4@... writes:

We've never had this problem, we have 2 boys with autism, Caleb is 8 and Gabe (just dx'd) is 6. We have gone to the same place for yrs(since before my oldest was born, he will be 10), and if people ask, we tell them. My hubby went there from the time he was a small child, and his entire family goes there(they are Jehovah's Witnesses, btw), and we've never had even one remark, even when gabe was small and would have meltdowns. They do not have Sunday School classes, the children learn right there with their parents, and are even given a chance to answer/ask questions. They have a place for little ones that need to move, in the back, where you can still hear, and a little alcove built on in the ladies room with a couch, chairs, etc., with a speaker system that you can hear thru. They have been nothing but supportive and go out of their way to help, even down to helping by sitting with the other kids while I take gabe or caleb out if i need to.Just my 2 cents in WI

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In a message dated 07/02/2007 5:51:59 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, charper777@... writes:

Anyway I don't think it matters who you are, as long as you believe in Jesus Christ as the Savior and Messiah, and know who He is. I know the Jews do believe, just don't think He has come yet, but I think one day their eyes will all be opened.

I don't think it matters what you believe, as long as you are a good person.

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[Guest guest]

Hello Jenn,

You say "but Christians tend to back bite and point fingers and get truly nasty," but don't you see you are doing that very thing yourself in your letter?

I am a Christian and I do not do that, and I know few other Christians who do, but I am sure you are right in that there are some. I for one love the Jewish people because my Savior was Jewish. My husband is a Jew for Jesus, was raised Jewish in NY by his grandparents. His mom, their daughter, and his little brother and sister had been murdered by her husband. She was divorced from 's father, who was Christian.

Anyway I don't think it matters who you are, as long as you believe in Jesus Christ as the Savior and Messiah, and know who He is. I know the Jews do believe, just don't think He has come yet, but I think one day their eyes will all be opened.

Meanwhile let us try to love one another, as Jesus said; This is my commandment that you love one another.

Carolyn

Re: At church, ever have

Carolyn,Friendship Circle does that here in San Diego - http://www.friendshipcirclesd.com/ - it is one of the most amazing organizations around. In fact, my entire family leans more and more towards completely abandoning the "church" and going back to a traditional Jewish upbringing. That is one of the biggest issues I have with "the church" - perhaps it is because as Jews we number less than 1% of the world's population and have learned to stick together, but Christians tend to back bite and point fingers and get truly nasty.I think that if we can find a temple nearby, we will go back to being observant Jews, believing in Yshua in our own homes and hearts.Carolyn <charper777comcast (DOT) net> wrote:

Hello Marie,

It sounds like your heart is in the right place on this. With me and my son I got to the point where I had somebody stay with him at home, so I could go to church, in fact I do that now. At least that way I get to go and get filled with the Holy Spirit each Sunday. Can somebody stay with your four while you go? Your husband maybe?

..

[Guest guest]

Amen Carloyn Amen

I so totally agree with you. The Jewish nation are God's chosen people. As Christians my entire family treat all Jews with the utmost respect. Just as there are bad lawyers, bad doctors, bad teachers, etc.; there will be bad Christians and bad Jews.

Please do not say we all are bad because you have run into a few bad eggs.

Marie

www.freedom4families.com

Re: At church, ever have

Carolyn,Friendship Circle does that here in San Diego - http://www.friendshipcirclesd.com/ - it is one of the most amazing organizations around. In fact, my entire family leans more and more towards completely abandoning the "church" and going back to a traditional Jewish upbringing. That is one of the biggest issues I have with "the church" - perhaps it is because as Jews we number less than 1% of the world's population and have learned to stick together, but Christians tend to back bite and point fingers and get truly nasty.I think that if we can find a temple nearby, we will go back to being observant Jews, believing in Yshua in our own homes and hearts.Carolyn <charper777comcast (DOT) net> wrote:

Hello Marie,

It sounds like your heart is in the right place on this. With me and my son I got to the point where I had somebody stay with him at home, so I could go to church, in fact I do that now. At least that way I get to go and get filled with the Holy Spirit each Sunday. Can somebody stay with your four while you go? Your husband maybe?

..

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[Guest guest]

Carolyn, You wrote that beautifully! As a fairly new Christian I

have a lot to learn. Thank you for being a good example.

Jenn, I assume you've had some bad experiences with Christians (or

so-called Christians). There are good and bad people in any kind of

religion. I hope you meet some of the good Christian people out

there and see that we are not all bad. Peace be with you.

Jodi

>

> Hello Jenn,

>

> You say " but Christians tend to back bite and point fingers

and get truly nasty, " but don't you see you are doing that very

thing yourself in your letter?

>

> I am a Christian and I do not do that, and I know few other

Christians who do, but I am sure you are right in that there are

some. I for one love the Jewish people because my Savior was Jewish.

My husband is a Jew for Jesus, was raised Jewish in NY by his

grandparents. His mom, their daughter, and his little brother and

sister had been murdered by her husband. She was divorced from

's father, who was Christian.

>

> Anyway I don't think it matters who you are, as long as you

believe in Jesus Christ as the Savior and Messiah, and know who He

is. I know the Jews do believe, just don't think He has come yet,

but I think one day their eyes will all be opened.

>

> Meanwhile let us try to love one another, as Jesus said; This

is my commandment that you love one another.

>

> Carolyn

>