Re: IQ tests

[Guest guest]

Hi :

I believe you are thinking of the Wechsler Scales, which is one of

the more common IQ tests. It has three versions: the WPPSI for

preschoolers, the WISC for schoolage children, and the WAIS for teens

and adults. It gives the examiner three group scores: verbal,

performance, and full-scale, based on the individual subtest results.

It is easy to give and analyze, and many school districts prefer it

for this reason. Many psychologists criticise it for two reasons: it

is felt to often be inaccurate if the child is having a " bad day " due

to defiance or inattention, and also because it can be

socioeconomically biased for children with less exposure to certain

environmental factors, especially children who have been socially

isolated. For many, the Stanford-Binet and the Kaufman are felt to

be less vulnerable and more accurate, although harder to give and

score.

The result of the IQ score is critical, since the IDEA defines

learning disability as a greater than 2 standard deviation difference

between IQ and academic functioning. An inaccurate IQ often may score

the child LOWER than his/her true IQ, and narrow this discrepancy,

and therefore disqualify the child for classification.

Good luck,

Larry Laveman, MD

Consultant, CHERAB

http://www.apraxia.cc

>Hi Dr. Laveman,

>

>You had posted about this in the past. I saved it for future

>reference but now can not find it in the archives.

>

>I believe the test was called the Welscher or something like that.

>Could you re-post it please.

>

>Thanks.

> on

>Moderator (one of Many!)-Cherab Group List

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 1/6/2004 10:44:16 PM Eastern Standard Time,

kiddietalk@... writes:

About the diagnosis -mentally retarded is a diagnosis that can mean

many things/nothing

I would like to share a story with you . was born with many

disabilities, therefore she was followed to our local`s hospital specialized

pediatric

unit 4 times a year. OT, PT, SLP, Dr and at the age of 2 a phys. who

administered an IQ test. Well, Miss was not cooperating that day she

wouldn't put

the ball UNDER the cup, so this DR (and I use the term loosely) decided then

and there that had an IQ of 48 thereby labeling her MR. OK, what`s

another dx, she has so many. But I knew this Dr was very off base, and did not

hesitate to tell her how unfair her test was. As parents we know what our

child`s disabilities are, and what they are not able to do. I feel tests such as

these should measure ability rather then disability. Granted some " dx`s " will

gain services but to make a sweeping generalization based on `s

inability to put the ball under a cup is not acceptable, and she was only 2 at

the

time. I allowed the Drs. report to remain in her medical file. When a different

Dr reads it, more often then not they shake their heads NO. I allowed it to

become part of her record to show how wrong these Drs. CAN be. At age 4.6 not

only can she place the ball UNDER the cup, but is reading!!! Not bad for an IQ

of 48, ey?

Dana

`s mom 4-ACC, SOD, HYDRO(SHUNTED), CHIARI(DECOMPRESSED),

SBO,GTUBE,SEIZURES,CDLS..and a VERY smart cookie!!!

ALSO, ALI 6, MIKE 15,JOHN 17, AND AMANDA 18

WIFE TO KEVIN-who is battling cancer

[Guest guest]

I rarely post, but I read daily. This really touched me because my daughter that

is almost 3 has CP, micro, Lang delays, Sp delays she was evaluated and her IQ

was a 39 I was really upset by this. My daughter isn't talking yet, but I as a

special ed teacher know that test are not always a true picture of a child's

ability, but hearing it from another parent helps

>DC831962@... wrote:In a message dated 1/6/2004 10:44:16 PM Eastern

>Standard Time,

As parents we know what our

child`s disabilities are, and what they are not able to do. I feel tests such as

these should measure ability rather then disability. Granted some " dx`s " will

gain services but to make a sweeping generalization based on `s

inability to put the ball under a cup is not acceptable, and she was only 2 at

the

time. I allowed the Drs. report to remain in her medical file. When a different

Dr reads it, more often then not they shake their heads NO. I allowed it to

become part of her record to show how wrong these Drs. CAN be. At age 4.6 not

only can she place the ball UNDER the cup, but is reading!!! Not bad for an IQ

of 48, ey?

Dana

`s mom 4-ACC, SOD, HYDRO(SHUNTED), CHIARI(DECOMPRESSED),

SBO,GTUBE,SEIZURES,CDLS..and a VERY smart cookie!!!

ALSO, ALI 6, MIKE 15,JOHN 17, AND AMANDA 18

WIFE TO KEVIN-who is battling cancer

[Guest guest]

OK just a few thoughts for you....I have been reading your posts for

awhile now and tried to reply yesterday but I somehow cut off the

message!!! The Stanford-Binet is a verbally based test, which was

given to a speech impaired child. My thought is that your child

must be quite smart to have achieved a score of 80 on this test!

Also, an IQ of 80 is not considered MR.....80-120 is considered

normal, with the average being 100. Obviously 80 is low normal, but

MR does not start until the score of 79. (And please, if I'm wrong

then someone correct me. Its been a lot of years since grad

school!) My third thought is that a Speech Pathologist has no

business diagnosing a child as MR----it is NOT WITHIN THE SCOPE OF

PRACTICE!!!! I know this b/c *I* am a speech path.

Back to the IQ test given to your daughter.....if I gave you an IQ

test in Russian you would probably be labeled MR....this is why

giving a verbally based test to a child with a verbal deficit is not

the correct way to assess IQ. I would suggest that when you go to

your meeting you request your daughters IQ be tested with the Leiter

(again, someone correct me if I'm wrong---I am an SLP who

specializes in adults not kiddos). I am very much inclined to

believe Dr. Agins results rather than the SLP or school systems

results based on their faulty testing.

This probably doesn't answer the questions on your post but I'v been

so irritated reading your earlier posts about your horrible

experience and how your daughter is being labeled MR----Just ticks

me off!

Kathy

> Hi, this question is actually from my husband. Can anyone help us,

we are

> about to call an CSE meeting, our goal for calling this meeting is

to hire our

> private speech therapist that we have been paying for privately at

home who

> specializes in apraxia 1x a week, hired by the school district so

that we can

> recieive services in home instead of using the speech path at

school who has no

> knowlege and who already labled my daughter MR and a one on one

aid. Is there an

> organization that can provide me with information about the

services that I

> am entitled to before I enter the meeting and or a Long Island

lawyer who

> specializes in this? field.

[Guest guest]

IA with Kathy-- an SLP cannot dx a child as MR or put them into that

handicapping category. Only a school psych can do that, and in our

state, they must also score very low on an adaptive scale (adaptive

skills being those skills in every day living like dressing oneself,

etc.). If they score low in IQ but have average adaptive skills then

they can't qualify as MR. The reason being is that learning problems

can affect the performance on the IQ test but if a student has

average cognitive skills, they ought to be able to do the adaptive

skills needed for a child their age. So I would look into whether or

not they did an adaptive scale.

Also, there is a test called the TONI that is a non-verbal IQ test.

Here is a link for you:

http://www.agsnet.com/group.asp?nGroupInfoID=a19100

I can't remember if it is your post or someone else's where the team

agreed to do the nonverbal test, and then someone went ahead and did

a verbal test saying the other one was in the back of the storage bin-

- well, get a flashlight and go in there and get it! I would PUSH

and DEMAND for them to do the nonverbal test. Call another team

meeting and go over this with them again.

W

> My third thought is that a Speech Pathologist has no

> business diagnosing a child as MR----it is NOT WITHIN THE SCOPE OF

> PRACTICE!!!! I know this b/c *I* am a speech path.

>

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 1/15/04 7:40:30 AM Eastern Standard Time,

drf218@... writes:

so can an evaluation with testing (by psych) be done without the IQ test or

not?

The Psych is coming for his initial meeting tomorrow.

Di

sure - there are lots of other assessments the psych can do to determine

learning style, behavior. You and the teacher should each get a checklist from

the

psych to fill out regarding his social and " life skill " development level.

Again - make it clear that this is NOT to determine palcement, but to

determine current levels, goals, and to help determine necessary supports and

services.

REMIND THEM that goals and objectives must be decided by the team and the

TEAM (including you) must discuss how these goals can be reached in a regular

classroom under IDEA. (The way it works under LRE/ Least Restrictive Environment

is that ONLY after the TEAM has determined that his goals could not be

achieved in regular ed can the team consider an alternative placement. It's NOT

about the " best " placement - it's about the LEAST RESTRICTIVE placement)

- Becky

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 1/15/2004 8:20:03 AM Eastern Standard Time,

lowenthalrj@... writes:

> (j) The public agency uses assessment tools and strategies that provide

> relevant information that directly assists persons in determining the

> educational needs of the child.

>

>

In Liam's case the jerk who did his 5 year old assessment (from NYC) copied

paragraphs from his three year old evaluation. I didn't protest it, but used

it to justify the program he's in now (out of district -- out of the ordinary).

What I'm going to do a year from now to get him into another program

(hopefully inclusive), I don't know. If I seem bitter it's because I had two

'official (or officious) school psychologists' in a row who disagreed with the

opinions of others around him, but who's opinions were given weight in his total

evaluation.

Just venting (or ranting). I'll protest the next eval if I disagree, because

it will mean more.

Kathy, Liam's mom( 5)

[Guest guest]

Yes.

Psychs can do observations and psycho-educational batteries that can include

educational, psychological, " life-skills " /functional skills, behavioral,

learning style--even neuropsych accessments if they have the means. IDEA

does not require that ALL possible tests be done each time a child is

evaluated, just that " The evaluation procedures in §300.532 have been

amended to provide that each child's evaluation must be sufficiently

comprehensive to identify all of the child's special education and related

services needs, including any needs the child has that are commonly linked

to a disability other than the disability in which the child has been

classified. (See §300.532(h).) "

§300.531 Initial evaluation.

Each public agency shall conduct a full and individual initial evaluation,

in accordance with §§300.532 and 300.533, before the initial provision of

special education and related services to a child with a disability under

Part B of the Act.

§300.320 Initial evaluations.

(a) Each public agency shall ensure that a full and individual evaluation is

conducted for each child being considered for special education and related

services under Part B of the Act—

(1) To determine if the child is a " child with a disability " under §300.7;

and

(2) To determine the educational needs of the child.

( In implementing the requirements of paragraph (a) of this section, the

public agency shall ensure that—

(1) The evaluation is conducted in accordance with the procedures described

in §§300.530-300.535; and

(2) The results of the evaluation are used by the child's IEP team in

meeting the requirements of §§300.340-300.350.

AND

§300.532 Evaluation procedures.

Each public agency shall ensure, at a minimum, that the following

requirements are met:

(a)

(1) Tests and other evaluation materials used to assess a child under Part B

of the Act—

(i) Are selected and administered so as not to be discriminatory on a racial

or cultural basis; and

(ii) Are provided and administered in the child's native language or other

mode of communication, unless it is clearly not feasible to do so; and

(2) Materials and procedures used to assess a child with limited English

proficiency are selected and administered to ensure that they measure the

extent to which the child has a disability and needs special education,

rather than measuring the child's English language skills.

( A variety of assessment tools and strategies are used to gather relevant

functional and developmental information about the child, including

information provided by the parent, and information related to enabling the

child to be involved in and progress in the general curriculum (or for a

preschool child, to participate in appropriate activities), that may assist

in determining—

(1) Whether the child is a child with a disability under §300.7; and

(2) The content of the childís IEP.

©

(1) Any standardized tests that are given to a child—

(i) Have been validated for the specific purpose for which they are used;

and

(ii) Are administered by trained and knowledgeable personnel in accordance

with any instructions provided by the producer of the tests.

(2) If an assessment is not conducted under standard conditions, a

description of the extent to which it varied from standard conditions (e.g.,

the qualifications of the person administering the test, or the method of

test administration) must be included in the evaluation report.

(d) Tests and other evaluation materials include those tailored to assess

specific areas of educational need and not merely those that are designed to

provide a single general intelligence quotient.

(e) Tests are selected and administered so as best to ensure that if a test

is administered to a child with impaired sensory, manual, or speaking

skills, the test results accurately reflect the child's aptitude or

achievement level or whatever other factors the test purports to measure,

rather than reflecting the child's impaired sensory, manual, or speaking

skills (unless those skills are the factors that the test purports to

measure).

(f) No single procedure is used as the sole criterion for determining

whether a child is a child with a disability and for determining an

appropriate educational program for the child.

(g) The child is assessed in all areas related to the suspected disability,

including, if appropriate, health, vision, hearing, social and emotional

status, general intelligence, academic performance, communicative status,

and motor abilities.

(h) In evaluating each child with a disability under §§300.531-300.536, the

evaluation is sufficiently comprehensive to identify all of the child's

special education and related services needs, whether or not commonly linked

to the disability category in which the child has been classified.

(i) The public agency uses technically sound instruments that may assess the

relative contribution of cognitive and behavioral factors, in addition to

physical or developmental factors.

(j) The public agency uses assessment tools and strategies that provide

relevant information that directly assists persons in determining the

educational needs of the child.

IQ tests

so can an evaluation with testing (by psych) be done without the IQ test or

not?

The Psych is coming for his initial meeting tomorrow.

Di

[Guest guest]

Just state that you don't agree and request an independent educational

evaluation. If it's been less than a year since the one where an old

evaluation was simply copied, you could do that right now.

Since that makes the district pay twice for evaluation, maybe they will get

their psychs to be a little more professional in doing assessments and

actually interpreting the results. (And they all would benefit from being

clearer on that, from my experience).

Re: IQ tests

In a message dated 1/15/2004 8:20:03 AM Eastern Standard Time,

lowenthalrj@... writes:

(j) The public agency uses assessment tools and strategies that provide

relevant information that directly assists persons in determining the

educational needs of the child.

In Liam's case the jerk who did his 5 year old assessment (from NYC) copied

paragraphs from his three year old evaluation. I didn't protest it, but

used it to justify the program he's in now (out of district -- out of the

ordinary). What I'm going to do a year from now to get him into another

program (hopefully inclusive), I don't know. If I seem bitter it's because

I had two 'official (or officious) school psychologists' in a row who

disagreed with the opinions of others around him, but who's opinions were

given weight in his total evaluation.

Just venting (or ranting). I'll protest the next eval if I disagree,

because it will mean more.

Kathy, Liam's mom( 5)