shyness

[Guest guest]

Hello all! I've not been around here for quite a while, but I woke up

unexpectedly early this morning and decided to catch up. I hope you all

are well.

I had to respond to this, as it reminded me so much of my own

experiences.

> Sara McGrath <msaraann@...> wrote:

I think it's more > socially acceptable for a woman to be shy, which

is what I always > thought I was, just painfully shy.

Bingo! My whole life, people have been saying to me " Why are you so

shy? " and the like. First off, there's nothing wrong wih being shy. I

don't know where the whole notion of outgoing=correct behavior came

from, but it's rather offensive. Second, I think if I'd been a boy

behaving in the quiet way I did, more notice would have been taken. But

I just got labelled " shy " without people considering it might be part

of a bigger issue. And consequently, I was blamed for behavior I

couldn't control, with no support or answer in sight. I always knew

there was more to it than just shyness, but it's hard to fight or even

feel hope when you've already been cowed by society for something you

can't help.

While it is more socially acceptable for a woman to be quiet, there are

also subtle, insidious factors that come in to play here. I've learned

that women are typically expected to be the " social glue, " to fill in

gaps and put other people at ease in social settings. Often women are

expected to keep up chatter about inconsequential things just to fill

the space. These are not things I'm able, or WANT TO do. So it can be

very difficult to live as a shy woman, and doubly so with Asperger's

because people seem to perceive it as a " male " disorder.

Do any other women here experience this sort of thing?

~ Long-lost Kitty ^..^

[Guest guest]

>As such, I have a game face where the real me is obscured from the

masses as I go about taking care of business, being perceived by

others as a 'gregariously outspoken personality<

I know what you mean about a " game face " . I have a few different ones I use.

People are surprised sometimes when I say I am shy because I have studied

gregarious people and can act that way for short periods of time. What they

don't see is that most days I spend the majority of my time alone and prefer

it that way. I routinuely have days I see people for maybe 2 hours only

total. And that may be my wifeexclusively, somedays, not seeing anyone else.

If I spend a lot of time around others, I am exhausted by day's end.

[Guest guest]

>Perhaps it's just part of the kind of group dynamic I've seen so often

before - people will get caught up in something to the exclusion of

everything else, and only the excluded are impacted so rarely any

notice is taken. This is one of the many reasons I don't do well in

groups, even Aspie ones.<

I hear you. One thing I tell myself if I post somethng and no one comments

is that it is because everyone agrees :-) The reason the meek need to

inherit the earth is because they don't have it now :-)

[Guest guest]

>Perhaps it's just part of the kind of group dynamic I've seen so often

before - people will get caught up in something to the exclusion of

everything else, and only the excluded are impacted so rarely any

notice is taken. This is one of the many reasons I don't do well in

groups, even Aspie ones.<

I hear you. One thing I tell myself if I post somethng and no one comments

is that it is because everyone agrees :-) The reason the meek need to

inherit the earth is because they don't have it now :-)

[Guest guest]

" On the topic of shyness, I was wondering if someone was responding

to nearly every post written, and usually at length, would that be

considered atypical Aspie behavior? That seems the opposite of

shyness to me. I know that not every Aspie shares every character

trait of other Aspies. "

I am shy IRL. The forums are one of the only places I give voice to

my feelings, phone conversations with a few good friends being the

exception.

" Furthermore, doesn't it seem like the long heated discussions that

appear to be so frequent herein, would have an inhibiting effect on

Aspies who are really shy, and that a lot of quiet voices that may

have some insights aren't being heard? "

Yes.

That is why I am trying to quell the long heated discussions and

turn the topics of discussion elsewhere. Notice that since my post

last night telling people no longer to discuss pot, discussion has

resumed regarding less-heated topics.

As I have stated, the forums of late have headed in a direction not

in keeping with my original vision. I originally wanted a peaceful

quiet place for people to post. But a few people have been trolling

or else hijacking the board by persistently discussing issues best

left undiscussed. I will see what I can do to make this a better

board for everyone.

" Just asking. "

Thanks for asking.

Tom

Administrator

[Guest guest]

I enjoy an indepth discussion - even if I do not post on such I enjoy

reading - but I am not talking about when the discussions get too

heated; I think emotions tend to come out in some people then and

that kind of scares me.

I would even prefer an indepth discussion in RL as opposed to gossipy

or irrelevant fluffy small talk and social politeness stuff. Still in

RL I tend to get whacked out and have to limit social

contact/interaction.

>

> " On the topic of shyness, I was wondering if someone was responding

> to nearly every post written, and usually at length, would that be

> considered atypical Aspie behavior? That seems the opposite of

> shyness to me. I know that not every Aspie shares every character

> trait of other Aspies. "

>

> I am shy IRL. The forums are one of the only places I give voice to

> my feelings, phone conversations with a few good friends being the

> exception.

>

> " Furthermore, doesn't it seem like the long heated discussions that

> appear to be so frequent herein, would have an inhibiting effect on

> Aspies who are really shy, and that a lot of quiet voices that may

> have some insights aren't being heard? "

>

> Yes.

>

> That is why I am trying to quell the long heated discussions and

> turn the topics of discussion elsewhere. Notice that since my post

> last night telling people no longer to discuss pot, discussion has

> resumed regarding less-heated topics.

>

> As I have stated, the forums of late have headed in a direction not

> in keeping with my original vision. I originally wanted a peaceful

> quiet place for people to post. But a few people have been trolling

> or else hijacking the board by persistently discussing issues best

> left undiscussed. I will see what I can do to make this a better

> board for everyone.

>

> " Just asking. "

>

> Thanks for asking.

>

> Tom

> Administrator

>

[Guest guest]

For me aspie on line discussions have become almost addictive, since

I have been involved in aspie lists I have never been able to

entirely cut myself off from the on-line aspie community. The flame

wars have scared me away from some, but after a time I will venture

back. There seems to be a fine line between a good in depth

discussion and a flame war.

I used to think of myself as painfully shy and it caused me agonies

when I was a teenager. People who do not know that I am in fact AS

still describe me as shy and then become totally confused when I

defend myself from verbal attack as I tend to become extremely

articulate when I am angry.

Kate2

In , " greebohere "

<julie.stevenson16@...> wrote:

>

> I enjoy an indepth discussion - even if I do not post on such I

enjoy

> reading - but I am not talking about when the discussions get too

> heated; I think emotions tend to come out in some people then and

> that kind of scares me.

[Guest guest]

> Furthermore, doesn't it seem like the long heated discussions that

appear to

> be so frequent herein, would have an inhibiting effect on Aspies who

are

> really shy, and that a lot of quiet voices that may have some insights

> aren't being heard?

Thank you. Personally, I find it alienating to make posts only to have

them lost in a sea of bickering. I can't speak for others, but it does

not encourage me to post.

Perhaps it's just part of the kind of group dynamic I've seen so often

before - people will get caught up in something to the exclusion of

everything else, and only the excluded are impacted so rarely any

notice is taken. This is one of the many reasons I don't do well in

groups, even Aspie ones.

[Guest guest]

>

people will get caught up in something to the exclusion of

> everything else, and only the excluded are impacted so rarely any

> notice is taken. This is one of the many reasons I don't do well in

> groups, even Aspie ones.

It's hard on a forum because you don't know who is there and if they

are upset or not. I know as an Aspie, too, I have problems when there

is more than say, 5 people or so, and my brain sort of crashes and I

can't keep up with who is who and who is where, especially when all I

have is a name (I'm also bad with names).

[Guest guest]

I originally came from a message board that was dominated by just a

few posters, most of them trolls. The reason I created this one was

so that the quiet folks would have a place to speak.

I generally don't like to be a dictator, which was why I let things

spiral out of control, but hopefully things are better now.

Tom

Administrator

>Perhaps it's just part of the kind of group dynamic I've seen so

often

before - people will get caught up in something to the exclusion of

everything else, and only the excluded are impacted so rarely any

notice is taken. This is one of the many reasons I don't do well in

groups, even Aspie ones.<

I hear you. One thing I tell myself if I post somethng and no one

comments is that it is because everyone agrees :-) The reason the

meek need to inherit the earth is because they don't have it now :-)

[Guest guest]

Thanks Kitty and Mark,

Kitty wrote:

>Perhaps it's just part of the kind of group dynamic I've seen so often

before - people will get caught up in something to the exclusion of

everything else, and only the excluded are impacted so rarely any

notice is taken. This is one of the many reasons I don't do well in

groups, even Aspie ones.<

I also think that this group dynamic that you describe goes for Aspie groups

as well.

At least that is what I have seen. I don't mind very much though. Sometimes

it can be

kind of 'fun' to just observe a group dynamic, like on this board. It is

interesting to see

that humans have so much in common, in spite of the (neurological)

differences.

Mark wrote:

>I hear you. One thing I tell myself if I post somethng and no one comments

is that it is because everyone agrees :-) The reason the meek need to

inherit the earth is because they don't have it now :-) <

That was funny : ) And wise : )

Lida

[Guest guest]

--- Lissa <catgrrl522@...> wrote:

> Bingo! My whole life, people have been saying to me

> " Why are you so

> shy? " and the like.

Ah, the " s " word! ;-)

I hate being called " shy " because I am not. Quiet and

reserved, yes. Shy, no. It bugs me when people equate

being quiet with being shy. Shy means being timid, or

afraid to speak.

My reasons for not speaking in social settings is

because most of the time I don't feel the need to

share my opinions, and chit-chat bores me. When I do

feel the need to share my thoughts, I can and do talk

until the cows come home.

I have surprised more than one person who mistakenly

thought my being quiet meant I was timid, and got an

eye-opener when they witnessed me doing or saying

something " bold " .

I don't think there is anything wrong with being shy

either, I am just bugged when *all* quiet people get

labeled as being " shy " .

Take care,

Gail :-)

__________________________________________________

[Guest guest]

What she is talking about is known as a " Gladiator Forum. " We had one

of those on another message board I once moderated on. The result is

that

1) Nothing was resolved between the two parties

2) It increased resentment among the members who were in it

3) Just about everyone from the main board went into the gladiator

forum to do exactly what it was they were doing on the main board:

Watch, heckle, troll, take sides, insert meaningless arguments, and

provide " factual " information that had no basis in fact.

The reason people get worked up in arguments is usually because one of

the two parties argues logically using fact and the other presenter

argues illogically using opinion and neither party will recognize the

other's arguments as being valid.

Generally it starts when a person quotes a factual source and another

person expresses a contrary opinion that has already been discredited

by the facts. So the original presenter is forced to PROVE his or her

side of it even though the facts themselves already stand as proof

enough. This makes him/her look like a tyrant and so the watchers,

leaners and fence sitters side with the person who gave and opinion

based on erroneous facts which further cause the original presenter to

prove his/her side of the case.

And so you can have 5,000 articles based on hard science PROVING

something and all of them backing the other, and then you have one

person quoting a sloppily researched article that asserts the opposite

point of view, but because he or she appeals to people's emotional

vulnerabilites, they take his or her side and wind up believing false

facts as truth and basing their future behaviors on this false truth.

It's very frustrating.

But it's human nature.

I see it all the time, and to be truthful, I have begun to stay out of

arguments also because I am tired of seeing it. There is a former co-

worker who moved to a new job who slept around and figured that because

he was white and slept around with the wealthy people my firm

integrates with that he wouldn't get AIDS. His conservative co-workers

tried to warn him but he wouldn't listen (This happened before I

arrived at the firm).

Well, he has HIV now.

People are predictable. If you go back to my post about the stock

market's performance as it pertains to human nature, you will see that

I am indeed a better than average " student " of human nature. All you

have to do is watch them. Generally the people who find themselves in

the deepest holes are the ones MOST likely to pull others into them and

make them believe they wanted to be there all along.

Tom

Administrator

" Years ago there was even a forum named " The Flame Pit " which was

created when one particular flame war got so out of hand that it

was affecting several different forums. The fighting parties were

invited to hash it out there. It served it's purpose quite well. "

What a great idea. Then anyone who has a bone to pick with someone can

do so there. Tom...?