Re: For Tom & Inger ( & others) Bringing together the

[Guest guest]

>From: VISIGOTH

> stan's computer wrote:

>> ...and identifying it with Satan, he is in essence saying it is

>> in direct opposition to basic beliefs of Christians. So even if

>> some things he says are acceptable, he is starting out by being offensive.

> An interesting post ... in the link. This does show Satanism to be a very

selfish, humanistic view, very individual as well.

These are two different concepts. I looked up " Ethical Culture Society "

http://www.aeu.org/hist1.html

http://www.aeu.org/ericson2.html

They obviously aren't Satanists in the sense of following Satan. (Many aren't

Satanists in the sense of believing in Satan either.)

So " Humanism " regards ethical values based on human values. Secular humanism

presumably means ethical values mostly separated from religion.

http://www.secularhumanism.org/index.php?section=main & page=what

If someone who professes Satanism (in the sense of following Satan) claims to be

a humanist, that doesn't mean that humanists are Satanists (duh). But that also

doesn't mean that humanism suggest evil.

> Satan is not an anti-Christ but is the usurper. He questioned the plans of God

Then " anti-Christ " or " antichrist " (slightly different meaning) is something

specific as opposed to merely being opposed to Christian morality.

> Bear in mind this. It was often said that the greatest feat Satan could ever

> accomplish would be to convince Man that he does not exist.

> If he could do this, then people would begin to question the existence of evil

itself.

> If they no longer believed in evil, or at least in Divine Judgement, then what

would

> restrain them from following their basest instincts and indeed being more

drawn to unrighteousness?

I don't see that belief in Satan is necessary for understanding evil. Certainly

atheists understand evil and can perform acts of kindness. Followers of

religions which have no tangible Satan belief can understand good and evil.

Similarly, not all acts of kindness or forms or evil are enumerated in the

Bible. Examples would be universal education, anti-polygamy, anti-slavery.

But if belief in evil depends on believing in Satan, what happens if one starts

to question their beliefs? Do they somehow forget that there is evil, or do

they simply forget to go to Church?

Back to Humanists, if a particular Humanist doesn't believe in Satan, that

person wouldn't be inclined to think of Satanism of anything more than an

oddity.

> What better way could he possibly devise to corrupt the souls of Humanity and

drawn them away from God and closer to him/

The former can be done by humans trying to understand devine reason without any

help from Satan. Look at some of the statements coming from RoPMA religious

leaders.

But in order to come closer to him (Satan) then one would have to either believe

he exists or (presumably more likely) be drawn whatever Satan advocates.

Taking the example of Gareth, he ends up expousing a combination of hedonism and

humanism. These could have Satanic elements, or more likely they are organic to

human thought. The difference is he ascribes these ideas to some vague Satanist

label.

- s

[Guest guest]

I did write a reply earlier to this discussion - for some reason it

has not come through.

Anyhow - I'll try to re-iterate what I said in my previous post.

Well for one Satanism and Humanism are different - maybe at first

glance not - but they definitely are.

Satanism believes in the symbol of Satan - but not Satan - I wonder

personally what is the difference? By espousing that they do not

believe in Satan, therefore they do not believe in God - hence no

salvation. Satanists do hate Christianity - the whole idea of their

religon is in direct contrast to Christianity - even the idea that

they do not believe in Satan.

There are obvious flaws in their religion. At first glance it may

seem reasnonable - but is actually twisted (my opinion). If one does

not believe in Satan - why call oneself a Satanist? Satanists do

believe in putting self first and making a god of oneself.

> >> ...and identifying it with Satan, he is in essence saying it is

> >> in direct opposition to basic beliefs of Christians. So even

if

> >> some things he says are acceptable, he is starting out by

being offensive.

>

> > An interesting post ... in the link. This does show Satanism to

be a very selfish, humanistic view, very individual as well.

>

>

> These are two different concepts. I looked up " Ethical Culture

Society "

> http://www.aeu.org/hist1.html

> http://www.aeu.org/ericson2.html

> They obviously aren't Satanists in the sense of following Satan.

(Many aren't Satanists in the sense of believing in Satan either.)

>

> So " Humanism " regards ethical values based on human values.

Secular humanism presumably means ethical values mostly separated

from religion.

> http://www.secularhumanism.org/index.php?section=main & page=what

>

> If someone who professes Satanism (in the sense of following Satan)

claims to be a humanist, that doesn't mean that humanists are

Satanists (duh). But that also doesn't mean that humanism suggest

evil.

>

> > Satan is not an anti-Christ but is the usurper. He questioned the

plans of God

>

> Then " anti-Christ " or " antichrist " (slightly different meaning) is

something specific as opposed to merely being opposed to Christian

morality.

>

> > Bear in mind this. It was often said that the greatest feat Satan

could ever

> > accomplish would be to convince Man that he does not exist.

> > If he could do this, then people would begin to question the

existence of evil itself.

> > If they no longer believed in evil, or at least in Divine

Judgement, then what would

> > restrain them from following their basest instincts and indeed

being more drawn to unrighteousness?

>

> I don't see that belief in Satan is necessary for understanding

evil. Certainly atheists understand evil and can perform acts of

kindness. Followers of religions which have no tangible Satan belief

can understand good and evil. Similarly, not all acts of kindness or

forms or evil are enumerated in the Bible. Examples would be

universal education, anti-polygamy, anti-slavery.

>

> But if belief in evil depends on believing in Satan, what happens

if one starts to question their beliefs? Do they somehow forget that

there is evil, or do they simply forget to go to Church?

>

> Back to Humanists, if a particular Humanist doesn't believe in

Satan, that person wouldn't be inclined to think of Satanism of

anything more than an oddity.

>

> > What better way could he possibly devise to corrupt the souls of

Humanity and drawn them away from God and closer to him/

>

> The former can be done by humans trying to understand devine reason

without any help from Satan. Look at some of the statements coming

from RoPMA religious leaders.

>

> But in order to come closer to him (Satan) then one would have to

either believe he exists or (presumably more likely) be drawn

whatever Satan advocates.

>

> Taking the example of Gareth, he ends up expousing a combination of

hedonism and humanism. These could have Satanic elements, or more

likely they are organic to human thought. The difference is he

ascribes these ideas to some vague Satanist label.

>

> - s

>

[Guest guest]

>From: greebohere <julie.stevenson16@...>

> Satanists do hate Christianity - the whole idea of their

> religon is in direct contrast to Christianity - even the idea that

> they do not believe in Satan.

Good explanation. It makes the objections seem clear, although it seems belief

in Satan isn't a prerequisite to belief in God and even belief in the Trinity.

> If one does not believe in Satan - why call oneself a Satanist?

I suppose for the reasons you state (quoted text above).

> There are obvious flaws in their religion.

Perhaps that's why philosophy irrelevant to Satan is mixed in. It gets boring

to just say, " I'm a Satanist. I'm in favour of the war but only if it can be

shown to have no justifiable purpose. Let's get the collection plate from the

Church down the street. "

- s

[Guest guest]

>From: greebohere <julie.stevenson16@...>

> Satanists do hate Christianity - the whole idea of their

> religon is in direct contrast to Christianity - even the idea that

> they do not believe in Satan.

Good explanation. It makes the objections seem clear, although it seems belief

in Satan isn't a prerequisite to belief in God and even belief in the Trinity.

> If one does not believe in Satan - why call oneself a Satanist?

I suppose for the reasons you state (quoted text above).

> There are obvious flaws in their religion.

Perhaps that's why philosophy irrelevant to Satan is mixed in. It gets boring

to just say, " I'm a Satanist. I'm in favour of the war but only if it can be

shown to have no justifiable purpose. Let's get the collection plate from the

Church down the street. "

- s

[Guest guest]

>From: greebohere <julie.stevenson16@...>

> Satanists do hate Christianity - the whole idea of their

> religon is in direct contrast to Christianity - even the idea that

> they do not believe in Satan.

Good explanation. It makes the objections seem clear, although it seems belief

in Satan isn't a prerequisite to belief in God and even belief in the Trinity.

> If one does not believe in Satan - why call oneself a Satanist?

I suppose for the reasons you state (quoted text above).

> There are obvious flaws in their religion.

Perhaps that's why philosophy irrelevant to Satan is mixed in. It gets boring

to just say, " I'm a Satanist. I'm in favour of the war but only if it can be

shown to have no justifiable purpose. Let's get the collection plate from the

Church down the street. "

- s

[Guest guest]

Could anyone PLEASE change the title of this thread if they wish to continue

discussing religion?

Thank you very much. :-)

Inger

[Guest guest]

Could anyone PLEASE change the title of this thread if they wish to continue

discussing religion?

Thank you very much. :-)

Inger

[Guest guest]

Could anyone PLEASE change the title of this thread if they wish to continue

discussing religion?

Thank you very much. :-)

Inger